(Part 2) Reddit mentions: The best christian fundamentalism books

There are some pretty good "sermons" out there. I get all spiritually overwhelmed when I listen to the pale blue dot.

Or his description of science as a candle in the dark, that ends "the candle flame gutters, it's little pool of light trembles, darkness gathers, and demons begin to stir".


But you can also hit a humanist-type spirituality from the other side. Starting with a religion, and chucking out the god.

Christianity without God, for instance.

Or you could look for your local secular humanist group, and see if they've got something for you.

But I think that the grim reality of the universe is that it is indifferent. You have to make your own meaning. Perhaps the a defining aspect of Homo Sap, compared to earlier homonids is that we derive social cohesion by telling stories and believing them. The curse of the skeptic, is that those stories also need to be true.

Good luck in your search.

Traditional Dispensationalism:

http://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344919159&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=DiSoensationalism

http://www.amazon.com/There-Really-Difference-Comparison-Dispensational/dp/0915540509/ref=pd_sim_b_1

http://www.amazon.com/Things-Come-Study-Biblical-Eschatology/dp/0310308909/ref=pd_sim_b_9

Progressive Dispensationalism:
http://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Dispensationalism-BridgePoint-Books-Darrell/dp/0801022436/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344919422&sr=1-1&keywords=progressive+dispensationalism

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Central-Issues-Contemporary-Dispensationalism/dp/0825420628/ref=pd_sim_b_3

Covenant (sorry, my seminary was staunchly dispensational so I am less knowledgeable here):
http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Covenants-O-Palmer-Robertson/dp/0875524184/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344919539&sr=1-1&keywords=christ+and+the+covenants

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Dispensationalists-Vern-Sheridan-Poythress/dp/0875523749/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y

Hope this helps.

This is tricky and not a strong area for me, but there's a three volume systematic theology called Renewal Theology by a reform theologian turned full-gospel. Good stuff, eh?


As of this writing, the volume most concerned with pneumatology ought to run you about $7 used, and shipped.



I say "theologian" but "Columbia University PhD" is probably more appropriate.

Yes. Without modernity, with its new paradigms of rationalism and secularism, there really is no "fundamentalism." Fundamentalism is itself a reaction against modernity, a longing for a "golden age" of imagined "traditional values."

A great book on the origins of fundamentalism and its relationship with modernity is Karen Armstrong's "The Battle for God." Check it out.

Hi, I'd love to give you some sources on that!

Mark Noll is always going to be a good resource. He's a theologian / historian working for Notre Dame, and he writes on the history of the evangelical movement in the United States. Some of his books that I'd recommend are:

• Scandal of the Evangelical Mind (the scandal is that there isn't one)
  
• For the earlier perspective, there's America's God: From Jonathan Edwards to Abraham Lincoln and The Civil War as a Theological Crisis, both of which set the scene for today's evangelical movements
  
  Apart from Noll, Salvation in the Slums talks about what evangelicals got up to prior to the religious right takeover: namely, they rallied behind progressive social movements.
  
  That all changed in the 1960s, with the widespread disillusionment with social changes. That's all documented in From Bible Belt to Sun Belt, which discusses how evangelicals became conservative in the first place.
  
  And for an anthropological discussion of where the evangelical movement is at today, check out Apostles of Reason.
  
  For a dissenting view, arguing that there's far more diversity than unity in the evangelical movement, check out The Anointed. For a theological listing of such diversity, check out Across the Spectrum.
  
  Edit: words

Looks like they've spent some time reading "Christianity Without God" by Lloyd Geering - the last presbyterian to be tried and convicted of heresy in the world.

http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-without-God-Lloyd-Geering/dp/0944344925

It's a Thing among certain fundy Christian groups to adopt from foreign countries in order to save the child's soul for Jesus. It has also turned into a horrible industry rife with fraud and abuse (a great book about it: http://www.amazon.com/Child-Catchers-Rescue-Trafficking-Adoption-ebook/dp/B00BKRW582/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1415899943&sr=1-7&keywords=The+baby+catchers Highly recommend it.)

I'm a papist... but my go to for understanding evangelical/neo-reform types is Michael F. Bird's Evangelical theology

I find it much more balanced than Grudem

Look up Steve Bruce's work on fundamentalism and religion more generally. I think he has a book on fundamentalism specifically. I've not read it, but it may have some answers for you.

http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentalism-Steve-Bruce/dp/0745640761

The Clash of Fundamentalisms: Crusades, Jihads and Modernity
by Tariq Ali draws a different picture than Black's.

The problem is certainty fundamentalism, but it is not exclusive to brown people and Muslims.

.

The End of Days: Fundamentalism and the Struggle for the Temple Mount


By Gershom Gorenberg




https://www.amazon.com/End-Days-Fundamentalism-Struggle-Temple/dp/0195152050

Enough: Why the World’s Poorest Starve in an Age of Plenty

This Is Your Country on Drugs: The Secret History of Getting High in America

God's Profits: Faith, Fraud, and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters

Family Properties: Race, Real Estate, and the Exploitation of Black Urban America

Well, maybe you should get your head out of your ass and look around. Christian pop culture is at least a $7 billion industry, and growing. Source: Rapture Ready (a very good read. Exposes how un-christ-like many of these people are, while also humanizing them. Written by an atheist Jew trying to bridge the gap of misunderstanding)

So no, it doesn't look like it will collapse anytime soon.

And which is it? Is Reddit, with its millions of registered users, 'mostly underground'...or is it 'the ramparts' that atheists shout from?

No - wait until the next time a Democratic president appoints the judge that will swing the court back to 5-4 liberal. THEN you'll see weeping and gnashing of teeth. Of course, that can't happen for 20-30 years now, bc Roberts (63), Alito (68), Gorsuch (50), and Kavanaugh (53) are relatively young. Only Thomas is over 80 on the conservative wing of the bench. We are royally screwed. Bunch of guys/gals at my work are talking about how they're all goning to vote this time - don't have the heart to tell them that ship already sailed. We are well on the way to driving the USA into a debt-ridden, science-denying, oligarchic, theocratic ditch.

Reading this doleful, prophetic book now. Written by a Republican strategist, tolling the warning bell. And now I think it's too late. Kind of the political tipping point, ala CO2. /edit: rolling to tolling.

https://www.amazon.com/American-Theocracy-Politics-Religion-Borrowed-ebook/dp/B000PDYVQQ

Here is a whole list of suggested books from a podcast I listen to, they are called Almost Heretical. I haven't read any of them myself, but here is the list.



American Indian Liberation: A Theology of Sovereignty by George Tinker

A Black Theology of Liberation by James Cone

Black Theology and Black Power by James Cone

The Cross And The Lynching Tree by James Cone

Liberating Black Theology by Anthony Bradley

Jesus And The Disinherited by Howard Thurman

Womanist Theological Ethics (Collection edited by Katie Geneva Cannon, Emilie M. Townes, and Angela D. Sims)

On the Side of the Poor: The Theology of Liberation by Gustavo Gutierrez and Gerhard Ludwig Muller

Christ The Liberator: A View from the Victims by Jon Sobrino

No Salvation Outside the Poor by Jon Sobrino

Sisters in the Wilderness by Delores S. Williams

The Scandal of Redemption by Oscar Romero

Hope Abundant: Third World and Indigenous Women’s Theology (Collection edited by Kwok Pui-Lan)

Mujerista Theology by Ada Maria Isasi-Diaz

Bible of the Oppressed by Elsa Tamaz

Water Buffalo Theology by Kosuke Koyama

Making Paper Cranes: Toward an Asian American and Feminist Theology by Mihee Kim-Kort and Grace Ji-Sun Kim

I came back. Read my edit above. The founder of Zionism was fine taking Argentina for a homeland.

The "God said it was theirs" argument is used by the hardcore religious settlers in the West Bank. It's also used by the Christian Zionists who want want Jewish dominion so Christ can return and send all the Jews to hell. Read End of Days by Gershom Gorenberg for more about the religious arguments.

The people who think this way are on the fringes of Israeli society. Bibi doesn't continue the occupation because of religious reasons, he continues it because he's got a housing crisis in Israel (and land in the territories can be had cheaply), he's got a water problem (and water in the territories can be had cheaply), and he has to cobble together a coalition. He gives up the territories, and then what?

I don't know if there's an answer for that question, either. IMO, unfortunately nobody in the US even attempts to look for the answer until after a child has died.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Fallen-followers-Investigation-finds-10-more-dead-children-of-faith-healers-231050911.html

http://www.amazon.com/In-Name-God-Children-Faith-Healing/dp/1250005795

http://articles.philly.com/2010-12-11/news/25292623_1_sore-throat-prison-time-jury-foreman

And of course, there's the entire anti-vaccination movement.

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/jenny-mccarthys-dangerous-views

To sum up my argument, I guess it depends upon whether or not we're talking about mental abuse or physical abuse. The first case is much more difficult to show evidence for than the second.

>You have a study funded by the saudi royal family (King Faisal Center for Research And Islamic Studies) and an article by Medhi Hasan. Neither one is ever going to blame islam for anything bad, facts be damned. Sorry if I don't find that convincing.

This article I shared ( What motivates people to join a terrorist organisation?) (which started our conversation - so presumably you read it) was not written by Mehdi Hasan. Did you just make that up? Perhaps you thought dishonestly throwing his name in there would discredit my argument?

You've also got Dr. Simon Cottee (Criminologist / sociologist) who writes:

>This reflects a broader consensus in the social sciences about violence: namely, that it is “socially determined,” a product of deeper historical, economic, or cultural forces over and above the individual. It is perhaps best summarized by the renowned social psychologist Albert Bandura. Drawing on studies of violence from across the human sciences, Bandura concluded that “it requires conducive social conditions rather than monstrous people to produce atrocious deeds. Given appropriate social conditions, decent, ordinary people can be led to do extraordinarily cruel things.” Social scientists argue about the nature and impact of the “social conditions” in question, but few would question the essential point that violence, however personalized or idiosyncratic its expression, is primarily rooted in historical structures or social relationships, not individuals, still less their “pathological” mindsets.
>
>This consensus is also reflected in much liberal-left commentary about terrorism, especially of the jihadist variant. For example, in some quarters of the “radical” left it is asserted that the roots of jihadist terrorism lie not in Islam but in the myriad historical crimes and injustices of Western, and specifically U.S.-driven, imperialism—most notably, in the post-9/11 era, the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Jihadist violence, from this perspective, is an inevitable reaction fueled by Muslim anger and vengeance; and Westernized jihadists, far from rejectingthe civilized norms and ideals proclaimed by the West, are in fact alienatedfrom a West that excludes, demeans, and harasses Muslims.
>
>The scholarly consensus on violence has a lot going for it. It humanizes the perpetrators of violence by insisting on their ordinariness and contextualizing their actions. It obliges people to reflect on their own possible shortcomings and vulnerabilities, and how, in different circumstances, they too could do monstrous deeds. And it compels people to recognize that they do not act in a social vacuum, and that what they think, feel, and do is powerfully shaped by the broader historical circumstances in which they are compelled to live and act. Moreover, Westernized jihadists, as a recent report cogently suggested, assuredly are alienated and feel that they do not belong in a secular world that often mocks and challenges their religion and identity as Muslims.

and Dr. John Horgan (psychologist who wrote The Psychology of Terrorism (Political Violence)) who writes:

>The most valuable interviews I’ve conducted [with former terrorists] have been ones in which the interviewees conceded, ‘To be honest, I don’t really know,’” he writes. “Motivation is a very complicated issue. To explain why any of us does anything is a challenge.