(continued from main post)

continue to use drugs and continue in my current way of life, or take the blessing He was graciously offering me and give up drugs and marry her – that was His plan for me. I decided it was time to quit, and knew God would help me. I only had 1 joint left (coincidence?), so I smoked it and went to bed high. I woke up the next day sober and got rid of all my drug paraphernalia. I had no cravings anymore; that part of my life was over by the grace of God!

She was very clear with me from the first date that she expected to wait until marriage to have sex, which at that point was my goal as well. Christ had really set me free from many of my old habits over the previous year, and I wanted to honor Him. Her first marriage was to an abusive, alcoholic man. He was the only man she had ever been with. They split up shortly after coming to America after he almost killed her, and it was just her and her son and daughter for 8 years. Her daughter moved out before we got married, and her son was 16 when we got together. He took a liking to me right away when he found out we like the same music. A couple years later God even used me to lead him to salvation!

We were married in 2008, after dating for exactly 40 days. Now I know why it is important and why God wants us to wait until marriage to have sex!!! We have a connection unlike anything I have ever experienced before. A couple weeks after we got married, I threw all my porn in the trash.

Sex between us has always been great. She was pretty shy and reserved when we got married, but I coaxed her out of her shell little by little. She now has no trouble doing all the things I like, and is very enthusiastic sexually. I made it clear before we got married that I would want a lot of sex, and if that was a problem for her she should move on. She said "If you marry me, it will never be a problem." And it never has been. I get as much sex as I want. I have absolutely no desire to cheat anymore since I got married, and have not slept with anyone but my current wife since 2007.

However, shortly after we got married she started giving me a difficult time over the boy I have guardianship for. She knew the situation when we got married and agreed to it, but gave me grief about it later. She tried to tell me that his birth mom needed to step up and raise him instead of us. She got angry because birth mom was not paying her court-ordered child support (this has since changed). She even accused me of sleeping with my stepdaughter, going so far as to pressure me to get a DNA test, which I did just to shut her up. I am NOT the father, but I have chosen to be his Dad and am perfectly happy doing so.

Also, a few months after we were married, my son's soccer coach asked me if I would be interested in doing a devotional for his team before practices. I said yes, and began giving a spiritual message to the kids before each practice. Then I saw a program on Christian tv called The Way of the Master. I was blown away by the strong, direct message and the technique they use to share the gospel! I began watching every week, and soon began to order cd's, dvd's and gospel tracts from them. Since then I have learned to share my faith Biblically using the Law of God. It is powerful, and I am no longer afraid to share my faith with anyone! Soon after that, another soccer coach who attended my church asked if I would include his team in the practice devotional, and I said yes. Through him I was soon offered an opportunity to teach a Bible study at my church to a 65 and older class. I taught that class from 2009-2014.

I developed a great friendship with her older son as he became a man. He had been lifting weights since he was 15, and is ripped. He got married a few years ago, and moved across the country with his wife. His example and encouragement to eat better and be healthier motivated me, and I finally got around to getting braces in 2012. This caused me to give up soda, and I started losing weight. I started intermittent fasting January of 2013, and dropped from 252 to 179 lbs. In 2015 I started working out on an old Bowflex I had bought after we first got married, and gained some muscle and tone.

Then in August of 2015, my elderly parents moved in with us because they needed help with daily care. We had talked about it over the previous year, and we both agreed it was ok and we would take care of them. I made sure to double check, because I didn't want any misunderstandings later. My wife was nice and welcoming when they got here, but she quickly became more argumentative with them and me. It came to a head the second weekend after they arrived when she started on all of us, yelling and arguing and being totally irrational. We actually had to leave the house for a couple hours to keep it from escalating any further. I didn’t speak to her for a few days, and it was during this time that I Googled “How to get my wife to respect me. This led me to the Married Red Pill subreddit, where I created a Reddit login and submitted my first post. Needless to say, I was blown away by the advice I received. I had been reading the sidebar steadily, but the feedback in the comments I received specific to my situation was exactly what I needed at the time.

Since that post, I have slowly changed and molded myself into a strong RPChristian man. I took it slow, at my own pace, and am glad I didn’t try to change everything at once – small, steady changes with the frame to back it up. Frame took the longest for me, and the key to changing things was realizing that it was my emotional reaction to the things my wife said that was causing me the most problems. It took a long time to practice and internalize that my getting upset when my wife challenged me or said something I didn’t agree with stemmed from my subconscious view that SHE was the one in charge. Once I realized that it really was all up to me, and that I could make the decision and deal with the emotional frustration of her disagreeing, things really started changing for the better. This comment was a game changer for me in that respect. Because I was the classic Nice Guy ^^^TM, this part of my transformation took longer than anything else I did.

Now I take charge, showing leadership and making decisions. No more “I dunno, what do you want to do?” I decide. She can persuade me to change my mind if she wants. I have established clear boundaries, and although it took a while, she has come around and I get a lot more respect than I did in the past. I fix stuff around the house, maintain the cars, take responsibility for the bills and all things financial, have successfully completed a number of home-improvement projects around the house. I joined a gym in 2016, and have transformed my body. I had the advantage of working labor jobs for many years, so the muscle base was there, I just needed to shed the fat. My wife and son have since joined the gym as well, and we all go regularly.

These days, we go out into the community and hand out gospel tracts together and witness to people on the street, and both our sons can articulate and share their faith quite will. I minister online to others through Global Media Outreach, and answer questions online. I reach out on Facebook too. My wife reaches out to a very large Eastern European community here in our city. They are largely cultural Muslims, and my wife has an amazing gift of inviting others to our place to share the Gospel, as well as getting invited to others’ houses to share the gospel. The fact that she also speaks 5 different languages is a huge help in that endeavor, and I have had the opportunity to share the Gospel with many of them when they come over to our house on more than a few occasions.

I thank God for saving a wretched sinner like me, and am so thankful that He has chosen to use me for His glory! My life has become a witness to others, showing that even the worst and weakest can be changed by the power of Jesus Christ. In December of this year it will be 20 years since I gave my life to Christ. I could never have imagined 20 years ago that my life would be anything like it is today. My mess has become my message, and I have no problem sharing my past struggles and the change that has followed for the benefit of others. I have a long way to go yet, but God is faithful and I will get there by His grace!

In closing, here is the list of books that I have found to be the most helpful to me on my journey:

• The Bible
  
  
• No More Mr. Nice Guy (NMMNG)
  
  
• When I Say No, I Feel Guilty (WISNIFG)
  
  
• The Way of the Superior Man
  
  
• Married Man’s Sex Life Primer 2011 (MMSLP)
  
  
• Saving a Low Sex Marriage (SALSM) by u/bluepillprofessor
  
  
• The Book of Pook
  
  
• The Rational Male
  
  As well as almost all the posts on RPChristians, Married Red Pill and AskMRP.
  
  Thank you so much for taking the time to read this, I pray you will be blessed and encouraged by it!
  
  And thanks to u/OsmiumZulu, whose post inspired this one.
  

^^ Listen to /u/prpna; he's a very wise man.

Gonna answer this and share my experiences without using a throwaway -- booyah!

(Source: nearly a decade of talking to/flirting with/hooking up with random girls in clubs and bars, so I can definitely say that culture difference hardly plays a part here.)

When I'm in a bar or at a club, I almost always use what PUAs call a "direct opener" -- basically, starting a conversation by expressing your interest in her.

Why? Because in these types of places, there's a lot of potential distractions going on (loud music, alcohol, chatty/dancing friends, and the biggest distraction of all: other men) so you need to come in strong and differentiate yourself from every other dude who's approached her.

I always say something along the lines of "I saw you and I thought you were cute, so I had to come over and say hi."

And then I reach out for a handshake and introduce myself. And the conversation begins.

There are very few circumstances in which you would want to ask for her number right away -- dude, you don't even know her, what the hell would you want her number for? You have no idea if the two of you would have anything to talk about or even get along, that's why it comes off as creepy.

Anyway, that opener buys me anywhere from 2-5 minutes worth of interaction at a busy club. There will be times when a girl just plainly isn't interested and will ignore you; but it works surprisingly well in most circumstances (around the same if not better than the Naked Man's 2 out of 3 times! </half kidding>).

While I've used that opener in clubs mostly, I've also had success using it in sit-down "inuman" places as well as coffee shops like Starbucks. It's actually better outside of club situations because in addition to the fact that nobody approaches strangers in these places, it's also a very strong and bold way to start a conversation. And I've heard that girls dig confidence ;)

=========

NOW THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART: One reason I think it's worked well for me these past few years is this: my mentality when approaching isn't to get anything from them.

In all honesty, if the conversation ends right then and there (and many times, it has) I'll be completely fine with it. I don't even mind getting blown off and rejected. In my head, my only purpose for opening with this line is to give them a sincere compliment: if all I can do is to make her day/night a little better and that's it, then so be it.

(And let's face it; whose day wouldn't be made up if a random stranger came up to you and told you that you're attractive and yet not want anything at all from you?

One time, I was hanging out in Katipunan with my friends and noticed this super cute girl who was drinking with her friend. I wanted to approach, but later noticed that she started crying and wouldn't stop -- presumably coming off a breakup or something. Before I left, I walked up to her and told her that I thought she was cute, and that she was obviously having a very bad day and I thought that a compliment from a complete stranger would at least help brighten up her night. If you've ever seen a girl genuinely smile after a solid round of crying.. It's a beautiful thing. Didn't even bother asking for her number but no approach has ever made me feel like a champ more than that one did. )

Which is pretty much what /u/prpna said, but a lot more eloquently and succinctly than I ever could. I agree 200% with his "she made your day; now try and make hers" statement. Seek to give value, not leech it away from people -- it truly does make the difference between creepy and confident.

What you do next is totally up to you, but in general you definitely want to do at least a few minutes of small talk before you close for the number (or you could go and take the interaction as far as you can for the night before you close it) -- that way, she's a little bit more comfortable with you and you actually have something to text her about when you do text her -- but this is a completely different topic in of itself though.

======

There's also the indirect opener in which you start a conversation without revealing your interest (sometimes even going out of your way to downplay it). Somewhere in the replies to this post, someone mentioned "The Game" which popularized the opinion opener (i.e. "Hey, I need a female opinion on something: who lies more, men or women?" etc.).

If I have to go indirect, personally I'm a fan of using situational openers. Basically, you use the situation around you to start a conversation with them. Let's say I'm in a club and I'm buying a drink -- if a girl is waiting along with me (btw one of the best times to time to start a conversation with a girl is when she's at the bar buying a drink) a lot of times I just look at them and say "Hi, how you doing?" or if they're holding a drink already, just reach out with my bottle and say "Cheers" then start some casual small talk.

Not such a fan of this approach especially if I'm really interested in the girl, because it takes a lot more conversation (and you have to be super interesting and/or super good looking) before she'll actually be interested enough to give you her number. Plus I'm extremely lazy to bother going through a whole bunch of this throughout the night. Also, getting the number doesn't always mean that she won't flake on you when you text her -- but it is a way to start an interaction with less risk.

But there are times when the situational opener is actually much more useful than the direct one. For example, if you're at a place where there's a lot of social accountability like a school party or whatever (friends, and friends of friends, where getting hit on by a complete stranger with a very strong come on may make you look a little too weird). Or "day game" situations like at the mall or at a bookstore or at a coffee shop where you might feel too vulnerable/exposed to use the direct opener (sidenote: it's not really a problem -- people are paying more attention to themselves and don't really give a fuck about you, so remember to tell yourself to get over yourself; you are not a unique snowflake).

Actually, when I was starting out with "the game" I once gave myself a mission to ask 5 strangers (female, of course) for recommendations on stores to buy good "guy clothes" from. It's a great exercise, IMO -- straight out of the Stylelife Challenge (now known as "Rules of the Game") -- and actually ended up having a 10 minute conversation with a girl on the elevator about whatever (too bad I was too chickenshit to get her number, but I've learned from my mistakes since then).

Anyway, complete wall of text already so I'm going to end this here, but hope that actually helps you out.

I'll take spastic over douchey any old day of the week.

5 is pretty easy, and it relates pretty heavily to #6.... just don't put any investment in it at all. Part of getting it down is realizing it's just a numbers game and that applies for everyone. Swing the bat enough times, and eventually you're going to hit a home run (some of us just have better RBIs than others), but again... nobody starts out like that... it all goes back to #6: Practice. Just don't have any investment in it... when you want to stay and chat after you make her smile.... don't. Just walk. It's like... imagine if there was a lottery, and every time you laid down a dollar, you were guaranteed to win back your dollar, plus $0.01. That extra $0.01 is the win. While it might not be a huge win at first blush, do it enough, and eventually you're gonna be a rich SOB. So just do it today. Clean up a little bit... and go enjoy the day. Get some coffee at a nice little coffee house. Maybe go for a walk. Buy groceries. Whatever... and if you see a lady that catches your eye, apply #4.

Which, I guess brings us to #4. Doing it right. First of all, cut yourself some slack... none of us ever do it right every time all the time. Sometimes, you're gonna swing and miss.... just that simple. Don't let that stop you from playing the game though.
Think of what you're doing like any symbiotic relationship you see in the animal kingdom. Be the bee to her flower. You need honey, she needs to be pollinated. (not trying to make it a sexual reference here, I just figured it was prettier than the oxpecker and rhino comparative)...
The ONLY reason you're gonna be complimenting her, is so you can catch that smile... that's it. That smile in turn bolsters your confidence so you have it when you need it. Once you get it.... you can be on your way.
OK... I don't think you have a problem with the honesty part. Seems like you have a good handle and filter on what is and isn't ok to say....so, I'll skip to the elaborating part.
When it comes to elaborating... a few things to remember: Guys aren't nearly as language oriented as women typically. That is to say that most men starve women when it comes to a certain word quota they need to have met. Women are typically more detail oriented... so give them details. Most guys totally miss this one and it's a monster weapon in the arsenal since, again... most guys aren't using it. It gives you a major competitive advantage.

One word of caution about elaboration. It's easy to flub this sometimes if you don't keep the following in mind: The more you talk, the more likely you are to screw something up. Another numbers game really. So assess what you're going to say, and if something pops into your head that you're not really sure of it's potency or strength, just put it on the back burner... you can always use it later if you want. Just fall back to something more certain and a little less descriptive.
Example: Coffee shop, girl in corner wearing a rather striking black dress with a red and white stitch pattern embroidered up the left front side of it... on her laptop, or reading, or writing something... off in her own little world. Something about the dress was one of the first things to strike you.... ok, so there's the honesty part. You're going to comment on her dress. How to elaborate on that rather than just saying, "I like your dress"? Well, there are varying degrees... be like goldilocks and find the one that's just right for you. So while, "I like your dress... it makes me think you have a certain uniqueness about you that tends to rebel against convention, but at the same time you prefer to uphold certain conventional traditions... being something of a proper lady in the way you conduct yourself but having a degree of disdain for those elements of tradition which might treat you as second class...and you're not afraid to push back against those. I dig that." ... So instead of something that overboard and elaborate... you might go with a simple elaboration... "That's a nice dress, I like that... I've never seen one like that... it's rather striking."
In fact, in most cases the former is preferred to the latter when first meeting someone. If all goes well, they'll usually appreciate stronger degrees of honest and complimenting opinion later.
But for now... just drop something like the former: honest, casual, confident (even if it's feigned), a small degree of elaboration, and brief.
So you say the latter, she smiles back... you return the smile... and then excuse yourself... cause that's all you were going for.

As for #1... it's totally true. Women will forgive inept social skills, financial lacking, aesthetics, age... you name it really. Maybe it has something to do with that whole nurturing hard wiring thing, I have no idea... but believe me I've screwed up on so many things, so many times.... and all of them have given me more chances than I probably deserved...because... they're fucking awesome like that. Just don't take advantage of it.... otherwise they will rain down on you a shower of hurt.

As for #5... it's like... taking a swing at a bully that's bigger than you, or... going bungee jumping or something like that... it's scary as fuck sometimes... but... you just commit to it despite your fears about it. Courage and confidence aren't matters of not being scared... their just matters of being defiant of your fears. So yeah... you'll be nervous, you'll be a little scared... that's just gonna be there... so know that, and now focus on the action part... and just... act anyway.
Just like bungee jumping, you can be scared the cord might break or it might be too long or whatever... but despite it... you just... act....jump. Next thing you know, you've just had the time of your life and you're itching to do it again. :)

8 is pretty easy, especially since it sounds like you've been there already. Try focusing on those things which are emphasis journey over destination. Try something like volunteer work for a charity. Since there is a rather abstract destination there (i.e. you want to end animal cruelty or kill shelters or something...you know full well the work you put in for a few hours isn't going to accomplish it.... it won't get you to your destination... but it'll get you closer just by engaging in the journey)... volunteering time is really awesome for this since again, there's usually not a really strong "destination" in most cases. Most if it, you're just helping with part of the journey.

 <br />

More directly as it applies to meeting and courting... just put the focus on the littlest things. Basically this

If you feel like you've got 7 & 9 & 10 down, then you do. That stuff is usually pretty intuitive.

Also, there's a lot of good stuff in here that you might find helpful:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Seduction-Robert-Greene/dp/0142001198

I hope some of that stuff helps. :)

Well first off, I don't see the ultimate goal as just having sex. I see the goal as finding a women to grow in a relationship with, that doesn't have to be your goal, but that's how I look at it. I just want to try to get some dates and see where it goes, I don't have raging success but I'm lightyears away from the shut in I was 6 months ago. Women can offer you much more then just sex, even if it's just a simple conversation that leads to nothing.

You mention a sort of one and done with sex, that's certainly not what I'm looking for, but if that's what you want, I'd imagine today's dating services and hookup culture could help make it work. Just got to get out there. Yes, the struggles will be there, but track your progress and give yourself pats on the back. You used a Mt Everest analogy, just think of the progress and growth you'll have after completing that climb. It certainly won't be as hard the second time, right? And if a girl is having sex with you you are fairly likely to be able to get another date or whatever if that's what you want.

> Consider this: Can you tell me how much work does an extroverted man have to put in to do the same thing?

Probably a lot less, but there is no equality. Just focus on improving yourself, compare you to you. Personally, I try my absolute best to look at things from a growth standpoint. I used to be scared to approach even women that I already knew, I would have trouble holding conversations with anyone, scared to express myself and the like. But I improved, I talk to more people(anyone), I calmed down my toxic inner voice, etc. and I'm quite proud of the progress I've made so far. I won't presume to know your situation or the struggles you've had but you can improve too.

> I don't agree that the "less outspoken" guy with social limitations should automatically accept being lower value.

I absolutely agree with this, I'm sorry if I implied otherwise. Make your own value, don't let your self-worth be defined by others. Kind of off tangent but I made a concerted effort to improve my posture a few months back and I was shocked at how much better I felt, and the reactions I got from not just women but men was much better, much to my surprise. No one will believe in you if you don't believe in yourself.

There's a lot to be said about this stuff man and I certainly don't have all the answers, but I would just say to go out there and be the man you want to be and damn what anyone else thinks. There are billions of women out there, more then enough that you can find one where you both suit eachother. There is only one /u/Aeon199, be the best you can be.

Before I go I'll just recommend some books(and a youtube channel) that helped me turn my life around so to speak.

1. Corey Wayne's "How to be a 3% Man"
   
   • (I got it for 10 bucks on IBook) At first glance it's a trash dating book that's bound to be full of bullshit. But it helped me immensely to understand women and get my passion back. At the absolute least, I urge you to check out his youtube channel, he has many, many helpful videos. He's not perfect, sometimes you'll shake your head, but the dude changed my life and he recommended both the other books I'm gonna list. Here's a video, maybe not his best but it seems relevant, and I enjoyed it when I watched a little while back. "See yourself as a High Value Person" Edit: Also Never Doubt Your Own Value
     
     
2. Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
   
   • Absolute classic. Helps you to fine tune your social skills giving real life examples of the tips it provides. Easy to find and can get it cheap, I got it for 3 bucks in IBook. I think they should make people read this one in high school, I know that college business classes sometimes have it as required reading. Dramatically helped me improve my social skills in general.
     
     
3. David Deida's "How to be a Superior Man"
   
   • This one is a little heavy, it's not a dating or social advice book per se, it's more of a guidebook about what masculinity is, I feel like I understand myself much better after reading it. From the passion you feel from watching a touchdown in football(just an example) to your drive to accomplish to your raw attraction to particular females, this book goes into it. It gets spiritual and perhaps a little loony a bit later in the book but it's really good. I recommend you read it if you like the first two.

Sorry this is so long..

Hard to say as a fellow guy. Maybe a 6? I like to frame it like this: You usually see really hot people dating each other, and likewise you usually see really ugly people dating each other. It's kinda like tolerance or magnetism (or reverse magnetism). Two similar people are like N+S magnets. They stick together due to a feeling a familiarity. It goes back to our ancestral, genetic roots. We usually stuck together in groups of similar-looking people. We were attracted to people with similar physical features, or at least identifiable features that sparked a feeling of safety & kinship (skin color, nose shape, facial structure, etc.). An ugly & hot person together is like N+N or S+S. They repel. It doesn't work. The hotter person would probably not date the other to begin with, and if they did they would probably leave eventually, unless there was already an emotional investment (like that solider who got his face & body destroyed/burned from a roadside bomb, but his fiance still married him because she loved him). Starting cold though, I think it's best to find somebody similar. That "familiarity" thing works wonders. My gf & I are like that. She thinks I'm attractive, and I think she's attractive. Neither of us are super hot, and we're also not super ugly. According to some people, we'd be considered "hot", and according to others we'd be considered "ugly". It's all up to the person judging.

So, really in the end the numbers don't mean much, or at least you shouldn't get upset if you're not a high number for example, it's just our attempt to rate people according to some loosely-defined quasi-imaginary 'scale' of attractiveness. Things like facial symmetry & proportions usually make somebody seem more 'attractive'. Researchers have tried to quantify these things.

Some people think in different terms. You might date somebody who you feel is 'beneath' you on the attractiveness scale. Conversely you might date somebody who you think is above you. IMO, it's not worth the struggle to invest a whole bunch of time in somebody who is far from you in terms of level of attractiveness. If you date somebody above you, you might end up acting insecure. Conversely, if you settle for somebody below your level, they might end up acting insecure and you will get annoyed.

Not that I'm promoting this or fully believe in it, but I think Ladder Theory is at least somewhat interesting to think about. I don't think it should be the basis of all your relationship decisions, but it can kinda help give you a loose reference of how people judge each other, and how men & women are different. No theory on this stuff is perfect, and I don't think Ladder Theory is equipped to handle the intricacies of human relationships & psychology, but it's kinda like discovering arithmetic before advanced calculus. It's something, rather than nothing.

Regardless of all that, relationships are hard work, and an exercise in stress management & open communication. My gf and I are constantly going through cycles of elation & minor communication struggles. It's just how people operate. We don't have clear windows into each other's thoughts, we have to openly communicate and not make assumptions. But anyway, this is all later on.

Point is: You are half of the puzzle. The girl is the other half. You're both incredibly important. There's natural synergy between two people (whether that's male + female, male + male, female + female). It's all about energy. Sometimes you see this in friendships too. Certain people just get along well, while some people don't.

Briggs-Meyers personality test can also help, so you kinda get a sense of your strengths and weaknesses. They split the personality into 4 dichotomies, and each one has a relationship to the others. They say we basically have all traits, it's just that each of us have more or less of any given trait. Some people are extroverted, some are introverted. Some people are intuitive, whereas others are more 'sensory' based. Some people are 'thinkers', whereas others are 'feelers'. And when relating to the outside world, some people resort to either their "thinking/feeling" side, or their "intuition/sensing" side.

Another thing to consider is the book "The Game" (amazon). To sum up the entire book, his final realization is that the whole PUA (pick-up artist) experiment led him to the conclusion that he would not be with his wife if were not for his understanding of basic ATTRACTION. There are people who just seem to naturally understand it (like the popular jock who you always see dating some random girl), and people who have to work much harder (nerds who overthink everything and don't make any moves, ever). I'm oversimplifying it, but you get the idea. I'm not saying this book is golden literature, but his conclusion really made me think about our basic underlying primitive motivations. We need attraction. You'd be bored to tears if you settled for a girl with zero personality & no good-looks (according to your own judgment of what good-looks are). Likewise, girls need flirtation, and they like to be innocuously teased. Look what happens when guys just outpour their feelings for a girl upfront - it can be a turn off. Girls want to be sought out by guys who they perceive as having some form of power or superiority or influence within their own group of peers. If you're sort of the leader amongst your friends, and people know it, I guarantee you some girl has her eyes on you. If you stand out amongst peers in SOME way (whether it be academics, athletics, sense of humor, etc.) it goes a long way.

It's a sometimes-frustrating balance between showing that you're interested, and not being desperate. And trust me, there's no reason to be desperate. A good relationship can wait. But, then again, a less-than-excellent relationship can also be a learning experience. Some people will tell you that you should literally hit on as many girls as possible, and basically play the odds of one of them agreeing to get with you. That's fine, but if you're like me and you overthink everything, then I think it's smart to throw your cards in when the right opportunity comes along without coming on too strong. Don't just play all the moves you have - play the best, most optimal moves. I think in HS, you can afford the risks, especially if you plan on moving away to college away from your HS friends. Get all your failures out of the way now, don't let your failures discourage you AT ALL, learn as much as possible, and just enjoy living.

Ok, first of all, no dramatic "pouring out your heart" scene, no ultimatums, and no talking about the nature of your relationship with her. You can probably seduce this girl, but you have to think like a seducer, not some dweeb who watched Chasing Amy and There's Something About Mary too many times.

Girls like drama and seduction and adventure and all that crap... but they want to feel it, not talk about it. DO NOT put her on the spot to "make a choice." That works in crappy Hollywood movies, but not in real life. Seduce her if you must, but do it right.

Ok, that said...

Reframe sex as a perfectly natural thing that close friends do when they're attracted to each other, without needing to be in a committed relationship. Example:

You: Did you ever see that movie, When Harry Met Sally?

Her: Yeah (probably)

You: It's a neat concept isn't it... do you think guys and girls can truly be friends?

Her: <whatever>. Do you?

You: Well, it depends... I think that if neither friend is attracted to the other, then sure.. it's easy. But if the two
are attracted to each other, it depends on if they're mature enough to handle it in the right way. I think if
you acknowledge the attraction and act on it - which admittedly can be a little awkward if one or both is in a relationship -
then it can be managed. But if you try to deny that the attraction exists, and repress it, then it usually causes problems in
the long run.

Her: Blah, blah, blah

You: It's weird how in our culture people treat sex like it's such a big deal... it's such a routine, natural thing, that should
be celebrated, not repressed, ya know? I mean, some people act like if a guy wants to have sex with a girl that he's
trying to take something from her, chastity or purity or whatever.. but it's not like that.. having sex isn't about one person
taking something from the other, it's about two people - who care about each other - creating a special moment in time
together, a shared experience that they'll be able to look back on and cherish for the rest of their lives, whether it
happens once, or 100 times...

Her: blah, blah

You: wing it from here... but you get the idea.

Have you read Robert Green's The Art of Seduction? If not, do so. You might also seek out a program called "Seven Ways To Make Her Addicted To You" by Vin DiCarlo.

Look into establishing a secret lover frame

You may also want to use some sexual prizing theory. If you're not very comfortable talking about sex and sexuality, become so. Go watch Basic Instinct, Eyes Wide Shut, Dangerous Liasons, Closer, The Door In The Floor, Unfaithful, etc. Then go to Barnes & Noble and buy a few good books on sex, orgasms, etc. Study. Then join a bittorrent site and download the White Tiger Tantra stuff. Learn it.

Then start putting the sexual prizing stuff to work... TVA_Oslo's "Sex Talk Guide" - part 1, part2, part 3, part 4, part 5, part 6, part 7.

If you've already slept with this girl in the past, it may actually make things easier, depending on the circumstances.

Now what's the point in all this? Well, see this:

> With how much time we spend together, how many common hobby's we have it just seems silly to NOT try, with the amount of time we spend together we pretty much are in a relationship void the romantic ties. Is it worth even bringing up? Should I just back off and get my own feelings into check?

The thing is, women typically don't form strong emotional connections with men they aren't sleeping with! So even if you aren't primarily just after sex with her, you still have to get her in bed, before you get to enjoy the snuggling, the silly smiles, the lying in bed reading your favorite book while sipping a cup of coffee with her lying beside you, all the fun stuff. You have to be a sexual interest before you can be a romantic interest, IOW.

Remember.... if a woman is comfortable enough to spend time along with you, she can be seduced.

Finally, if you're being her "emotional tampon" and "girlfriend with a penis" you have to stop doing that. It makes you very unattractive. Be her friend, but if she wants to pour out her heart about how some (other) dude broke her heart, blah, blah ,blah, find a way to avoid having that talk with her (or if you do, make it DAMN infrequent). And don't be too accessible to her. Don't always answer the phone when she calls, and don't rush to return her calls 2-3 minutes after she calls. Remember, you are an important, busy, high-value man... you don't have time to be chatting on the phone everybody somebody calls up wanting to chit-chat.

A specifically Aspie-hostile feature of dating is the disconnect between the apparent and effective rules of the game. You might think that red-pill stuff such as the Game will give you great insights, but they probably won't: they're not designed for people like you, and they're not aiming at the kind of relationship you likely want.

Here's my one-sentence sum-up of the rule as I understand it: look contagiously happy.

There are many ways to be happy; some of them suit you, some others don't; hopefully, you have identified some of those which do. A suitable partner for you is someone with some happiness-goals in common with yours, and with whom you'll effectively pursue shared happiness. That's really a great definition of a suitable mate: someone whose definition(s) of happiness, and whose ways to pursue it, matches yours.

Simply by being Asperger, you're not a standard person, and your possible paths to happiness probably aren't the most common ones. Know how your definition of happiness deviates from the norm, identify what kinds of character traits go with it, identify the kind of people who have them, consider them as your dating pool.

Once you're targeting the right people, remember that (1) standard recipes don't apply well to non-standard people and (2) if they're like you, they're as lonely as you are, and they want that relationship as hard as you do. There are some fundamentals which apply everywhere: don't come out as desperate, needy, self-centered. Your ultimate promise is that the pursuit of happiness will go better and faster alongside you. So you need to come out as happy, open and interested in the other, and enthusiastic about sharing and growing that happiness of yours. You're sharing happiness, not begging for some. Kids are needy, but kids aren't sexy. If they have uncommon conceptions about happiness, and you convincingly show them that yours matches theirs, you'll be welcomed as a Messiah.

Most of the non-written rules of dating are about convincingly showing it. But you can't just say "I'm God's gift to womanhood": everybody would just say it if it was all it took! You're giving hints that you're a great fit for the unique person in front of you, and they're going to test those hints, to figure out whether you're bullshitting them. They'll test the genuineness of what makes you happy, of your interest in them as a unique person (rather than any other consenting vagina owner), the fit between what makes you click and what makes them click, how well you're reading them... Once you know why they're doing it, it only takes a bit of practice to find the correct answers to the hidden questions: at least you're playing the actual game with its actual rules!

I'm a math-geek, polyamorous, bisexual Aspie smartass who craves both stability (affective and material) and sensual hyper-stimulation. And I have a couple of other fringe lifestyle and sexual kinks, too. My dating pool is a tiny fraction of a percent of the population, but I roughly know which fraction it is, so I meet more suitable partners than I need. If I were to try and date random people, I'd probably never succeed, and if I did, I'd be bored to death by the people I'd have the misfortune to settle with.

I used to be terrible with women. Constantly friendzoned. Got cheated on by a girlfriend that I had no idea how I got.

Then I found some "pickup" stuff online that got me lucky two times in a row following a script... and then nothing. So I studied more online stuff. I was going to be the best pickup artist ever, I was going to show them all! I'd approach women to impress my friends. Got a stripper to go out for coffee(ended badly, I was totally over my head). All sorts of showy stuff.

Luckily I found some charisma based pickup stuff that was essentially just presenting yourself in the correct manner, and not be afraid to escalate sexually.

One of the techniques was a type of disqualification where if anybody said anything negative you agree and amplify. And if they say something positive, be genuinely thankful, but say something a bit humbling to keep yourself human.

Disqualification was great for my interactions with others, but weirdly, it was the best thing for me. It didn't happen overnight, but it did happen. I started not to place too much importance in what others thought of me. Not in a narcissistic way, but in a freeing way. I came to realize that I didn't need to impress anybody by showing off or becoming a pickup superstar. I became decent at dating and could spend my energy in other areas of my life.

The reason I'm telling you this is because "pickup" advice can help you, but you need to be careful. As Grayflcn said, becareful over in Seddit. There are some genuine people there, but there are also some people trying to impress people with BS, or show offy, creepy things. Try to keep your filters set appropriately.


I've been in a relationship for a while, but trying to help some friends I've found some things I think are good resources in this area coming from the right place...

1. the Art of Charm (artofcharm.com) guys have a ton of free stuff available to get better with women that you can trust.
   
2. this book: http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358 comes from the right frame, and was of huge help to a friend in this and other areas.
   
   That said... if you've already got women you're dating maybe the only thing wrong is you're not escalating. Letting them know you find them attractive in a man to woman manner. This may seem like a huge hurdle, I was terrified of this. Yet, doing it a few times, it became something I did without thinking because it totally improved my relations with females.
   
   It's 3 steps.
   Figure out what you find sexy about her. Something about her personality is better than something physical.
   Use the word sexy to tell her you think that thing is sexy . There's no ambiguity. She knows what you mean when you use that word.
   Don't wait for a reaction, start talking about something else. It will ferment in there and not waiting for an answer shows you're not hanging on her approval.
   
   Example: I like women that make me laugh... she says something funny.
   
   "Hey, you're funny, I think funny women are sexy. (A half beat pause so it's not rushed then) So, anyway, tell me more about that Japanese restaurant... "
   
   It seems like a small thing but it made a total difference in my male/female relations.
   
   I'm typing this on mobile, but I remember the pain of feeling helpless with women. I hope some of this helps a bit, Bud.
   
   *Edit fixing the book link that didn't work.
   
   ** Edit2 I'm not sure this is worthy of it, but thank you to whoever gifted me the gold.

Since I don't know the extent of your Autism, I will write as if I'm speaking to a person that is just very inexperienced with dating.

It definitely is different from case to case.
Some people experience it like this though:

• Meet a single person through any means (pool of friends, stranger at bar, etc.)
  
• Get to know them through casual conversation, keeping eye contact longer than you would normally.
  
• If they appear to pay attention to you (they don't leave the area, they ask questions about you in return, they maintain a decent amount of eye contact with you), then they might be interested.
  
• In this case, it would be wise to mention an activity you going to be doing soon or at a later date, and that they should join. Preferably this will be somewhere where exploration and/or drinking can occur.
  If they agree; pull out your phone, open up a New Contact, put their name in, click the phone number field, then hand them the phone to type it in.
  
• Be the person to politely end the conversation, preferably on a good note (like a callback to an earlier in-joke, a playful reference to the future event, or a cheerful goodbye stating you need to return to your friends)
  
  
• Arrange transportation and greet them at the venue with a friendly physical contact (fist bump, funny handshake, hug, high-five) to get the friendly vibes going. Keep a positive energy throughout the "date" and err on the side of punctuating certain moments with physical contact ("Oh my god, I can't believe you said that!" slaps arm, "Hey, look over there." lightly elbows side, Put arm around them and poke their other shoulder to distract them "Did you know that guy or something?" grin)
  
• The focus of the "date" is to get them comfortable with you, get comfortable with them, and learn about them while relating your own experiences. Its almost like hanging out with a good friend, but with more physical contact and teasing. Also, if you're a guy, assume you will be paying the tabs unless she physically stops you/puts her money down. I'm all for equality, but this is something that can only help you in an early dating situation. You can split bills later in the relationship.
  
  PROTIP: If there is a lull in the conversation, don't keep prodding them or start playing on your phone, instead have a casual conversation with someone around you (bartender, person in line near you, somebody sitting at bar). This shows you aren't a puppy dog relying on them for entertainment, are outgoing, and have confidence (an attractive trait universally).
  
  
• If the date is going very well and the physical contact is being reciprocated or even escalated, mention something unique about your home (A VR game system, a French Press for coffee, a song you're producing, a freaking cat, whatever). Usually its best to drop this in earlier on in conversation. When the date is starting to get stale/it is getting late, suggest you go back to your home to check out that thing (You won't actually be checking out that thing).
  
  

1. If they say no and have a plausible excuse (I have work early, I have to take my mom to the airport at x:xx, etc.), they will often follow up with "...but I would like to hang out again!" or "...but I'm doing x on saturday/whatever". If not, just hit them up for another date later, they might still be interested.
   
2. If they say no and don't have a plausible excuse (I have to feed my fish, I have to wash clothes, I'm tired) and don't offer a follow up hang out, then they are probably not interested. If they wanted to continue hanging with you, they would invite you over or come to your place after doing their task. They certainly wouldn't be tired unless its way into the AM, and even still...
   its best to assume you aren't compatible and leave them alone. Definitely don't beg or pressure them.
   
3. If they say yes, see below
   
   

• As you walk into your (hopefully clean) apartment, immediately commence intimate physical contact. Preferably making out. Lead into bedroom. Boom boom boom.
  At the FIRST sign of hesitation, stop entirely. Don't get butthurt or beg, just respect their wishes. You can offer them a drink or to do the activity you mentioned, then try again later. If still no, they may either have some friction (religious background, awkwardness about intimacy, principles against first-date hookups) or something went wrong and they think you're a friend/is using you for something. Nothing I've written here is a hard rule, simply my experience. This may not be the case for everybody, especially if there is mental disorder involved.
  
  
• From here, if you want a girlfriend/boyfriend, you just need to meet up more and more until you've both decided to become exclusive. Include them in more fun activities, slowly bring them around your friends, and reveal more personal details about yourself. Eventually either they will ask you to become exclusive, or it is so implied that you should ask them to be exclusive with you. Most people won't go on 5+ actual dates with somebody unless a relationship is a possibility.
  
  
• A relationship is like a best friendship where you slowly reveal more and more about eachother, rely on eachother more and more, and begin including them in your personal life more and more. It is not an attached-at-the-hip situation, it is more of a separate but together situation. Separate as in you both have your own interests, friend groups, and time alone. Together as in big life decisions should be shared with them, you have an obligation to only sleep with them, and you will be in somewhat regular contact with them throughout the weeks. Often this will lead to them moving in with you, getting married to you, and/or reproducing with you. There's no rulebooks to relationships except having boundaries, not being clingy, and assuming trust in them unless otherwise convinced.
  
  
• Relationships often end once one person's boundaries are crossed by their partner (cheating, moral conflicts, distance) in which case they have enough pride to end it.
  Sometimes it ends because it just isn't adding anything exciting to their life (compatibility comes down to being able to tolerate eachother for an extended period of time). Sometimes they will go on until death, often not.
  
  Also, a book I cannot suggest enough is Mark Manson - Models
  
  This book probably gave me more applicable advice about dating than any other source period. It is one of the most useful materials for self-improvement. Possibly the best dating advice to ever exist.

I personally think that you should appreciate women's beauty, however I feel that catcalling would be unnecessary i didn't see any approach done "right", i actually feel that people, specially men should learn some social dynamics specially towards talking to the opposite sex, and by this i don't mean learn pick up and fuck as many girls as possible and shit like that, but because I feel that its important to be able to connect with women in a way. I feel that a lot of rapes, and sexual frustration, and probably prostitution is because men want an easy way out, and don't want to put in the work to approach women, and now you could even go online dating if you don't like it but i think that men become more aware of how to deal with this certain situation, I am working on myself to be able to approach a girl and give her a genuine compliment and to mean it because I say it and say it because I mean it, not to get attention that just because by catcalling people I 'prove im manly' they come off as needy and shit.

Although I feel that people, specially women, if you learned some pick up or rather some more sociability they see that as ungenuine and even more chumpy, but the counter argument i would say is they are not being genuine either, they use make up and they are manipulating their appearance to look more attractive and in a way is manipulating me to think better of them, I am against some of the principles of pick up but the dating science isn't wrong, but its on the right path. I personally think that, like in my case, if you know you suck with women, and you don't want to be in a path of crappiness and neediness, via using prostitution to get laid or roofing people to get laid or rather rape girls, or vast usage of porn, I would say that its good.

I personally would recommend reading Models by Mark Manson because the book is really fucking awesome and it would make you a better man, and perhaps reading the 'further reading' books from that book help you understand the mating system of humans, and to become a better man. I think the book itself is actually really good because it states more than just to get laid is to find quality women to be fullfillled and be more happier with women, and in a way is actually attacking the dating science in a way by attacking The Mystery Method which all pick up could be summed up by that single book. In a way I would recommend both and take the best from both because neither of them is 'wrong' but niether one of them is 'right'. I do agree with Manson's idea of confidence and working in yourself more than in women and being sexualy fulllfilled doesn't require large amounts of women, while I also agree with Mystery's focus on competence vs. confidence because he says that you can't quantify confidence and rather focus on number of approaches and really statistics because that shows competence and successful competence breeds confidence eventually but in a way Manson's idea is better, because he is coming from a place of abundance of women and general happiness, is like saying being 'good' with women is something you are and not do and your looks, money demographics and ect does matter in the equation, over mystery's idea which is coming from neediness, because he refers as girls having 'high value' and by that you are infering that you aren't enough for her so you have to in a way manipulate yourself into making her thinking you are 'good enough' so that it doesn't matter if you look like a fucking troll no matter what if your 'game' is 'tight' it doesn't matter what even if the girl is married or anything really, she will sleep with you and that isn't the case, because mysetery uses a lot of indirect and 'fool proof' tactics that are more convoluted than just expressing your intent and if it doesn't work out move on asap, I'd say that take the best they both are right, and both concepts are correct but im leaning more the natural no scripts type of things and just being freeforming it.
I'd recommend both people getting those two books and they will change your life or at least make you think better and be more aware of how to flirt better. And perhaps reading Double your Dating by David DeAngelo, this one focuses more on dating girls and setting up and getting exposure to women over, is focused on both competence and confidence, and in a more natural way. I'd say get them, you can torrent them if you are so cheap, but defenitely read up on them and see what comes out of it.

So defenitely get Models by mark manson and Mystery Method because you can get a really clear picture on the subject of picking up women, and Double your Dating by David D just the simple ebook don't dig too much into it.

other books, I heard of them, and read some reviews on amazon and they seem to have really good reviews but I haven't gotten them or read them but they seem legit too.

Bang by roosh V

Day bang by roosh v

The manual by W. Anton

the Natural by richard la ruina

Get inside her by Marni Kinrys

they all seem like good resources to start and move on from there... and work on specific sticking point, but i'd say don't believe everything use them as guidelines and not as rules, and take them with a pinch of salt. the reason for this was because when I read the Mystery Method, it was well argued and every contingency is planned for, that I couldn't really find fault with the method, And so I believed all the "high value" bullshit that i fucking felt that i needed to one up everybody and that isn't the case, i was able to rescue myself from that mindset by Models, and I really thought it was genuine and it doesn't rely on too much bullshit and is more natural there is no one upping bullshit. I am not preching seduction community but i feel men should know what they are doing, specially if they suck like me, and be just more aware of things.

Perhaps i'd also reccomend
Gifts of Imperfection by Breene Brown since this book really digs somewhat on the self acceptance/self worth/self esteem part and what pick up artist would call 'inner game' ...
I'd say pick whatever books you want to BUT STOP reading too much into it, i became too paranoid and wanted to read every book on pick up out there and that is not the case guys, hope i helped.

TLDR--read books, become aware, know better, don't be a creep but don't be chump either, get informed guys know your shit,

You have to love yourself before anyone else can love you. I understand this isn't the answer you want to hear but it's true. I used to be in your shoes. You have to understand that yes support is great, but ultimately you have to stand on your own feet to be firstly healthy (no one can fight your depression for you) and secondly to be attractive.

I'll leave you a few links that have helped me come out of my hell hole.

http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-overcome-depression

• This guy is a very talented writer. He not only has an excellent article on depression but all of his other articles are great ways to start boosting your confidence in life. Lots of decent dating articles.
  
  CBT - Cognitive Behavioral Therapy has worked wonders for me. I went on anti-depressants for 3 years which was needed at the time, but if I would have combined it with CBT I may have safed myself years of suffering. I'm 100% off them now and feeling better than ever. Try googleing this. This is a good place to start.
  
  http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/cognitive_distortions.html
  
  Get into a routine of going to bed and getting lots of rest. Change your diet to healthy foods. This will help keep junk out of your system that leads to high/crashes and keeps your serotonin pumping.
  
  Socialize, - www.meetup.com is a good place to start if you're not a very social person. They specifcally have "introvert" groups so people that arent used to socializing can get used to seeing other people with the same comfort level. There's groups for everything.
  
  Self-Esteem - Try and boost this as much as you can. I know when I was depressed I had a horrible self-esteem and it's taken years to boost it back up. Again, google has copious amounts of information on this but a book I bought and helped me was
  
  Working out - Not only does this make you more attractive, but way more importantly it boosts serotonin levels and will help you feel better. I can't stress how important this is. I was able to come off Effexor JUST because I began working out heavily. The nice body is a just a bonus, the way it's made me feel is incredible.
  
  www.bodybuilding.com - has a bunch of beginner exercises for you to start.
  
  Dating - Lastly, don't worry about this one too much. I know you're thinking "what the fuck? that was the whole point of my post". The world is hyped up with "quick fixes", you know 6 pack abs in 2 weeks etc. There is no EASY way out, no way to just magically press a button and become this macho attractive person. The most attractive trait a woman can see in you is confidence. You've already been through all this pain with your depression, you can do anything you want but the CATCH is that it takes time. You'll need to subject yourself to a bunch of situations that MAKE you feel uncomfortable, and by having small little victories in each situation you're able to build up confidence.
  
  I'll share a few articles from this guys website that not only helped me tremendously with dating and self-esteem, but with life in general.
  
  

  1 - http://markmanson.net/change-your-mind
  

  
  

  2 - http://markmanson.net/youre-okay
  

  
  Especially #2. Lastly, he wrote a book that I've re-read a bunch of times that is excellent and down to earth dating advice. He's honest and isn't going to sell you a bunch of this "I need to be super macho to get dates" crap. It's all a media hype. Women just want you to be confident, but in order to do that you have to treat your depression and just enjoy life which will take months, not going to lie.
  
  http://www.amazon.ca/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
  
  Enjoy man, you have lots of work to do. consider this the first day of the rest of your life.
  
  

You're exactly the sort of person who will eventually stumble into the seduction community. You could do worse, but first, some warnings...

1. It's like any other group: A belief in self-superiority because of knowledge that the public at large does not have that they regard as valuable. That doesn't actually make them any better.
   
   
2. Do not start playing a character. Of all the advice, all the routines, all the lines, there is no substitute for having an actual personality. Yes, you can pretend to be someone you're not, but that means whenever you're around that person, you have to pretend to be someone you're not. How long can you keep that up for? You're not a secret agent. Be yourself, but be the best version of yourself.
   
   
3. Be prepared for the arms race. You are now in competition with many other men (dozens at a party, thousands to millions in your city, billions worldwide). You are going to win some and you are going to lose some. Be prepared for both. In your case, it's winning that's going to be harder to deal with: It's the unknown. Embrace the unknown.
   
   That said...
   
   > How do I overcome my inexperience?
   
   AndyNemmity said it: Practice.
   
   > Should I ever tell women that I'm inexperienced? (I tried this once and it might've put her off.)
   
   I would say, yes, you should; if nothing else, when asked, but I don't recommend bringing it up. This is really your call. Different people will react in different ways. It's going to take some time to learn what those ways will be.
   
   > What should I do about my emotions showing up like yesterday?
   I think my self-esteem problem comes from my inexperience, but is there anything I can do specifically for that problem?
   
   You are not going for 100%. You are going for 5%. Out of 20, 19 are practice. Act on your emotions as soon as you get an inkling of them. Regret lasts so much longer than rejection.
   
   > I'm starting to use dating sites. Do you have any ideas for my circumstances? (Maybe I should look for a short-term relationship, or more women in the 18-22 range, or older women?)
   
   Every word counts. Give people something to build on. Make sure your profile has lots of things to talk about. You are awesome. You make awesome into a verb. Be as positive as possible: Nothing has ever gone wrong in your life.
   
   When you reach out to someone, make sure that there's something obvious to respond to. Ask an open-ended question about their profile. "Hi, how's it going?" is good enough in real life, but sucks online.
   
   > Is it wrong for me to turn down interested women? (Like the "love" case above, but maybe I should just do it anyway. That doesn't seem fair to anyone.)
   
   It might be right for you. This is something only you can decide. Is a relationship with this woman an improvement in your life? Maybe, maybe not.
   
   > Should I learn/accomplish/do something to stand out of the crowd?
   I try to strike up a conversation before asking someone out to get some comfort in learning a little about them. Is this a bad approach? It probably limits my options.
   
   If you have everyone's attention, you are making an impression on anyone you might be interested in. This is a two-way street, so while it's powerful, be careful.
   
   You should have something interesting to talk about. Otherwise you're just one of the masses, and blending in isn't going to get anyone's attention.
   
   I'll also mention that you might consider getting one of your female friends to set you up. This is likely to be a lot less game-playing. Maybe you want to play games; games are fun, after all, and you probably don't want something too serious right now. You probably don't even know what it is you want. If you do know, tap into your social network.
   
   > If I'm the one keeping a conversation going (by asking questions, introducing topics, etc.), how likely is it that she's not interested?
   
   Very likely, but that isn't your fault. We live in a self-centered society. The best you can manage is pay attention to the things other people say (do not talk to just girls; talk to everyone), and tie back into it later. Someone who is actually paying attention will be genuinely surprising.
   
   On the downside, then you may well become the bored one.
   
   > Are there any books that could help me? Assume I've never read any on this topic.
   
   It sounds like the major issue you're having is picking up on signals. For that, I would recommend starting with The Definitive Book of Body Language; skip to chapter 15, but read the whole thing. I've also seen advertisements for You Say More Than You Think but haven't read it; that might be useful. Really there are any number of body language manuals out there. Read at least one, preferably more.
   
   Consider reading either some of the book by Leil Lowndes (in particular, I'd recommend How to Talk to Anyone), or The Rules of the Game; both will get you started just talking to people. I would favor Leil Lowndes' work just because she seems less sketchy (though she did co-write a paper with David DeAngelo).

It's really hard to make the best decision when you're personally involved, and seeking advice from a diverse community like Reddit was a good idea (you can easily filter the trolls and idiots). Without reading all of either thread, I do hope someone with a strong pscyhology background and experience posted some advice. Your sister is not the first to have this problem, won't be the last, and I'm sure the field has dissected it enough to have some insight on the issue.

However, personally, I like a different tack for situations like this. Sometimes, when there's no way out of a problem, the only solution is to go further in. In this case, use a 'jiu-jitsu' or 'aikido' solution - don't oppose your adversary, redirect her.

The problem seems to be that she has both a strong libido and low self-esteem due to that rape (and perhaps just being a young girl in a world that seems specifically designed to twist and distort young women's sense of self worth). Hence she's seeking attention and validation from any old asshole on the Internet. The libido is natural, the low self-esteem is what needs to be solved. (PUtting her in a mental hospital already has one major strike against it in that respect, the very act of being committed is a self-esteem hit, so even if the place is really good, they're already starting at a deficit).

Before talking about the means to that end, lets identify the ideal end. I'm sure you've met women who have it together, smart, have a life, who are spontaneous, flirtatious, happy, and (for lack of an uncliched description) completely comfortable with their femininity and sexuality, and - most importantly - confidently in control. Regardless of their physical beauty, they have a strong sense of their emotional worth to the opposite sex, and no hangups. That's ideally where you'd want her to end up.

So how to get her there? You say she's attractive. In that case, instead of turning her in, it might have been better to sit her down and say something along the lines of 'look, you can do better than needy pervy Internet assholes. There are guys out there who are hot, rich, accomplished, socially skilled, discerning, and amazing in bed. You may not feel you're in their league, and right now you'd be correct. You've got the looks and the libido, but no skills at seduction. And you're certainly not going to learn any from these losers. Worse, you're going to learn bad habits from them, that all you need to do is flash your tits to have them eating out of your hand. But that only works on idiots. There's no challenge, or reward in that, and if you keep at it you'll spend your entire life chasing fulfillment from men from whom it will never come. They'll play mind games with you your entire life, treating you like garbage so you don't realize you can do better, and constantly come back to them for scraps of validation. Real seduction is emotional, psychological (the strongest erogenous zone is the mind). You can do better, but you have to learn how. Heres how'

Eg, speak to her on her own level, and guide her, don't rat her out. And from that point, show her the world of seduction artists, both men and women. All over the Internet now, easy to find. I say show her men's seduction communities b/c it's fascinating to see what the opposite sex is up to, and to understand the 'game' from their point of view. The Attraction Forums are probably the place to start, as is The Game and Mystery Method (although there is better, more natural, less canned/rote/routine stuff, those are good to start with since they've deconstructed the psychology of seduction very clearly, it's a fascinating read even if you never intend to learn and do it).

There are plenty of guides for women too, Mimi Tanner and Amy Waterman being the first two that come to mind (though Mimi is a little more old-fashioned, 'The Rules'-oriented), since I'm on both their email newsletter lists. The point being, all of this can be learned, it's not just some people who have it and some don't. Your sister's libido is never going away unless you med her up her whole life, which really isn't a solution. But if you can redirect her libido, and give it a healthier outlet that helps her feel like an attractive woman with high value to the opposite sex, and puts her in control of her sexuality, her wild emotions, and her relationships with men, I think that would be the best possible outcome for her.

This may have arrived too late, but hopefully it gives you something new to think about. If she hates you now, I'm not sure if you can help her in this way. But if she's still talking and listening to you, maybe you can try something like this. I assume she's got plenty of time to read books now in the hospital.

I don't really know how I could change your mind honestly, because it's just my own personal experience, but I'll give it a go.

I am your height, I am slightly younger than you, 19. I grew up homeschooled, so I didn't have my first kiss till I was 18, I held my first hand at 18 too lmao, safe to say I just didn't interact with girls basically my whole adolescences. Lost my virginity at 19 to my current girlfriend.

So to summarize I am a short homeschooled kid, who has an average face and a skinny fat build, I have literally every excuse to be like you.

But I'm not, I've now had two girlfriends since I started actually trying to date in 2018, and my current girlfriend without a shadow of a doubt is extremely sexually attracted to me. Again, can't prove it to you, but you'll have to trust me.

Honestly I firmly believe most women don't care about height as much as people on the internet would have you believe.

If you're 5'11" and up, your height is an attractive feature, just like a nice face or big muscles. If you're 5'9"-5'7", your height might affect you in your dealings with other men, but I don't give a fuck about other men, to women, your height won't really play a role, except you will be taller than most women, which is attractive. and finally, our height, 5'6"-5'5", our height is for some people, an unattractive feature, but not everyone, and, the best part, we're still taller than most women, at least in america where average female height is 5'4", which again, is what most women care about, their partner being taller or as tall as them. Not to say it's impossible or even hard to date a women who is taller than you, just that many women do find it attractive if their partner is taller than them.

But again, I suppose this is all just based off my own experiences, I've never been turned down for my height, but, to be fair, I am a naturally social and charismatic person, this is an advantage that I was given, as a short guy you do in some ways have to make up for it, and work a bit harder, that's just how it is, fair? no, reality? yes.

And to my final point, I don't know shit, I'm 19, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but oh yeah, you don't know shit either you're TWENTY TWO, do you know how young that is? We're basically still kids man, in the grand scheme of things either of us trying to say anything about life with any extreme degree of certainty like "I've tried everything I could to get a girlfriend, from grooming to lifting weights to getting hobbies" is folly.

Live life and all that shit, we only get one, legit everyone in your ancestral line somehow fucked a girl, I highly doubt you'll be the end of it.

I highly recommend Models, and The subtitle art of not giving a fuck, both are fantastic and great books to read when you don't know what to do with yourself.

Good luck buddy, hope this was at least somewhat helpful.

As far as anxiety goes if it doesn’t seem too bad you can usually deal with it by yourself. I have tried medication but that just made me an emotionless zombie so I quit taking it. My anxiety is big when it comes to new activities, people, and/or places. After some introspection I believe it may be related to how hard I judge myself and mainly my fear of failure. Before I do most things I like to research so that I can be prepared and not just show up and fail.

When I don’t do that and jump in unprepared and have to do something new the anxiety spikes. I have since come to accept these moments because they happen and will continue to happen. Worrying about it won’t change the fact that is happening. People try new things/situations and fail all the time. Failure is common and an opportunity to learn. Sometimes you win some and sometimes you learn some.

I don’t expect new guys in my shop to show up and perform at the same level as others with more experience. When people try new things it is expected that they might fail. It is normal to fail. If someone points out your failure to make fun of you then they are obviously immature and lacking in manners if they make themselves feel good by putting down others.

> It's so bad now, that I don't see the need for a friend - I could live my life without concern for that, despite having had great friendships, but not without a lover.

As long as you understand that just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist if that makes any sense. Lonliness sucks.

> I'm sure I've got 1 too many bad reactions to things I've said / how I've said them, that I just don't feel comfortable being "me" from the get go now - & I'm honestly nothing bad!

This is how it works with pretty much everyone in most social situations. You start talking to them politely and little by little letting more of your personality show until you reach a point they are comfortable with. Pay attention to yourself when you are with others and you will see that you act differently with different people.

> For example, I was at a part-social, part-work related get-together, with my younger teen siblings present. I was sitting with them & 2 girls who I knew from work. So, me being me, saw some matches & went to show them a trick whereby I made a match jump erratically. My siblings obviously were amused along with previous partners, but the reactions from the 2 girls were literally, "I don't get it", belittling dialogue & yawn. I'm not Houdini, but it was just a little musing - not a date pick-up line or something :/

So they didn’t like it, big deal. You can’t make everyone happy. What do you mean “not a date pick-up line or something”? Is that what they thought it was but you weren’t trying for that or something else?

> Just wondering if there are any other sectors that are viable, like the cushy life of School (though I blew uni. 3 years of solitude went by fast).

Not sure what you mean here. Also, I never went to a university.

> I'll possibly also try picking girls up through the controversially sexist PUA concepts with a twist - I'm going for love instead of one night stands.

Do not become a PUA practitioner. Not being yourself with others is deceitful and employing manipulative techniques to win people over with a false you will result in nothing but heartache and letdown for both parties involved. There’s a reason the saying goes, “the road to hell is paved in good intentions.” Good intentions do not excuse bad practice. Don’t you want someone to love you for who you are?

I wouldn’t want to be with someone who fell for the fake me over some manipulative techniques. By all means though go and explore the PUA community and form your own opinion. I’ve already done that and you can see how I feel about it.

> The skill of socializing Is something I'm going to need to work on - but is this something only available via practice in the real world / deep end?

Do scientist go out and practice real world applications without first researching? Some yes but most of the ones that make progress do not. We are past the age of being young and dumb were it was acceptable to make many mistakes socializing. As adults we are expected to at least be good at socializing and practicing social norms. Some of use are behind the curve and that is where the greatest information resource of all time comes in. I’m talking about the internet , of course, but books too. Now start researching but remember book smarts alone aren’t always enough. You must combine book smarts with experience to have a more fruitful outcome.

> This really is my current & largest ever life goal.

That makes sense because in a world full of people being able to properly socialize is one of the most important skillsets.

Here are some of the resources that I have used and have gained knowledge from.

r/AskMen

r/AskWomen

r/Bumble subreddit for the dating app

r/datingoverthirty You may not be over thirty but there’s still a lot of good advice in there

r/malefashionadvice if you want to expand your wardrobe

r/relationships

r/sex

r/socialanxiety

r/socialskills

r/swipehelper and by extension SwipeHelper.com This is a good resource for Tinder.

r/Tinder

r/WritingPrompts because you said you like writing

Photofeeler for getting feedback on pictures you may want to use in the online dating sphere

Books;

How to Win Friends & Influence People The book was written a while ago so the situation may be outdated but the principles can still be applied today.

Models: Attract Women Through Honesty

From the description;

> “Models is the first men's dating book ever written on seduction as a purely emotional process rather than a logical one, a process of connecting with women rather than impressing them, a process of self-expression rather than manipulation. It's the most mature and honest guide on how a man can attract women without faking behavior, without lying and without emulating others. A game-changer.”

The Definitive Book of Body Language: The Hidden Meaning Behind People's Gestures and Expressions

We can continue our discussion here but if have any questions in the future I am just a PM away. I don’t have all the answers but I am willing to share my experiences.

In my early 20's, I was having issues too. I was the proverbial "good girl" which really turned me into a doormat and I totally didn't understand the whole dating game. I know, games suck, but human nature tends to like games or you seem to get labeled as boring (which is what life becomes once you're actually in a healthy relationship- not boring, but very predictable). In the beginning, people are generally looking for excitement, and games are exciting. I read two books that I feel like helped me:
The MANual (pdf)
Amazon's copy of The MANual

And

Why Men Love Bitches

Bitch does not have a negative connotation here, it simply teaches you how to respond to the games men play in the real world by SETTING BOUNDARIES and teaching you how to respond to the games. As Christians, the only boundary we were ever taught to set was to be a ball busting gatekeeper (at least I was). This book will help you weed out guys who are looking for easy sex (unless that's what you want- in which case, use Tinder), and help you gain a sense of confidence and respect for yourself.

This was about 10 years ago for me, but I ended up landing a former "bad boy" using the principles in these books. We've been together for 6 years, married for a little over a year.

Words of caution:
When someone shows you who they are, believe them. Character flaws don't go away. I feel like I was taught to see potential in people as a Christian and I fell in love with potential rather than the actual (deeply flawed, unwilling to reach for it) person. My sister married a man who she saw potential in and he hasn't changed in 7 years. They've been in therapy for two so they can learn to get along.

Everyone puts their best foot forward in the beginning, but time will tell you who they really are. Some people are super charmers- if it seems too good to be true, it usually is. These guys are known as narcissists (narcissistic personality disorder) and they are deeply wounded, LOST CAUSES. I know, we were taught to believe everyone deserves a chance, but these guys will use you up and spit you out and use an abusive technique called "gas lighting" to make you think you're crazy. Trust me on this one.

Sex will eventually get old, so you'd better enjoy talking to them. My mom told me this a long time ago. It's not that you don't enjoy sex anymore, but you end up spending more time together not having sex and actually interacting. My husband actually makes me laugh, I respect his views and values, and we get along. I've dated the hottest guys in the world who I had absolutely no respect for in the past and was miserable when we weren't having sex.

There's a lot more, but you'll learn as you go. If your friends hate him, ditch him. Your friends know you and see things your rose tinted glasses prevent you from seeing.

Good luck out there!

Of course. Each relationship you have is a learning experience to teach you what you think you want and what you actually need. In the past I have immediately gone after an ex and mouthed him up and down about what a loser he was and it feels good in the moment but it also makes them feel like "Happy I don't have this bitch in my life anymore" and it in turn makes it easier for them to get over it. I wouldn't recommend this path.

I'm in the same boat, just got out of my 2nd serious relationship though and I feel exactly the same way - a lot of anger about the amount of crap/time/money/quality time I put up with. However, after some introspective thought, I'm sure he put up with a lot of my crap too. I also didn't communicate effectively the things that made me unhappy. If I had, maybe I wouldn't have sabotaged our relationship.

However, the way I feel is, I put in a lot effort that I knew wouldn't be returned, but did it anyway out of the love I had for my ex. It sucks, but now I know that I love hard and I need someone who can ask themselves: "If the shoe was on the other foot, would she do this for me?" and is willing to make the effort to do things that they don't want to do. I wouldn't have been able to come to this conclusion without my ex.

What I recommend, which has helped me tremendously, is every time I have a negative or positive feeling about my ex, I write it down. Get it out of your system so you aren't lamenting about it. It's very cathartic and truly helps you deal with your emotions and vent without projecting anger on your ex and saying things just to be hurtful. An additional benefit to writing it down is that it's personal. You can say whatever you want, doesn't matter how extreme it is.

When you are ready for your next relationship - or maybe working things out with your ex - you have a collection of your thoughts, feelings, needs and wants that you can review. It helps remind you of how far you've come, what you have gotten over and what you haven't. When you are contemplating giving your heart away again, you have an amazing resource to help you decide if the new boy is suitable or not. It'll also help you when you talk to your ex to get closure because you can calmly, and nicely, discuss the aspects of your relationship that made you unhappy.

Be patient, wait for your moment to feel vindicated. It will come. You can't change the past but you have control over your future. Be smart, and continue to be the fabulous woman that you are. When the next lucky guy comes along, you already have a set of standards that you are confident in to enforce with a zero tolerance policy.

But don't beat yourself up too much. We all learn in our own good time. A book I recommend for you is Why Men Love Bitches

I'm putting this at the top so all y'alls see it. If you're dating, you should really read Aziz Ansari's book Modern Romance. I haven't finished it yet, but it's great and actually more serious than I was expecting (but still funny).

 

Dating in Portland sucks, but I assume that dating everywhere kinda sucks. That being said, I'm friends with some really smart and beautiful women and we've all had a waaay harder time dating than our male friends. I'm sure there will be guys on here that disagree, but in my experience they have a way easier time, but that could just be the social circles I run in. Like, they haven't had to lift a finger or do any relationship work because there's always another cute girl waiting in the wings that has left a note on their bike or baked them cookies or straight up asked them out. We, on the the hand get told we're "intimidating."


It seems like quality men that want to be in a relationship are already in one or they'd rather just play the field and sleep around a lot (which is fine, when they're upfront about what they're looking for). Sometimes it feels like I'm just waiting for people to start getting divorced and back on the market. At least it seems like guys in Portland are finally growing out of their Peter Pan Syndrome, but that probably has to do with being out of my 20s. It does anecdotally seem to last longer here that what I hear from friends in SF, Seattle, etc.

 

Every couple of years I try my hand at online dating and it's absolutely great experience to go on a bunch of first dates, but geeez it's also exhausting. This certainly has value in and of itself, but it's always felt more like an exercise in socializing and small talk and learning how to keep a conversation going than anything romantic. One date the guy pretty much only looked over my left shoulder instead of making eye contact and it took a huge amount of will-power not to keep turning my head to see what the hell he was watching even though I knew it was only a blank wall.

The last online date I went on was such a disaster I actually got another drink to continue watching the trainwreck (heck, I had nowhere else to be). He repeatedly asked if I was a stripper which wouldn't have been quite so gross (although still inappropriate!) except he was obviously not some sex-positive guy. It was really weird. He was also very surprised that there are bars on the East side (!) and kept referring to Henry's (where we met up, his choice, not mine) as a hipster bar. HAAAA. You can bet the dudebros around us were starting to look mighty attractive compared to this asshole.

Sometimes I think I'll reboot my OKC profile or try Tinder, but it's just been feeling like too much work for not a lot gain or even fun.

 


No, I'm not setting any of you heathens up with them.

Reading is great. Yes, you do have to get out there to learn social skills, like some are saying here. However, you can also learn a lot from other people's experience, which is what a book is. Use books to supplement what you are learning from your actions. Some good ones:

• HTWF&IP, like everyone else mentioned. A classic for a reason. Not everyone will love it, but you need to find out for yourself if it suits you.
  
  
• Choice Theory by William Glasser also really opened my eyes, in terms of managing relationships. It really showed me how trying to change other people is really at the root of most relationship problems, especially romantic ones. It also helped me realize just how much we control our own minds, and how we can change more about ourselves than we normally think.
  
  
• The Game by Neil Strauss introduced me to the "seduction community". I had no idea social skills could be studied in such a methodical fashion. And despite the negative reputation, there is a lot of wisdom to be found in those circles, that can even help you in a relationship or in other aspects of your life.
  
  
• Various books on salesmanship, which is social skills put to a direct professional use. Nothing especially great jumps out in my mind, but a lot of these books are pretty short. Go to a used book store and pick up a few.
  
  
• One Phone Call Away by Jeffrey Meshel. It is about professional networking, but this applies to personal "networking" as well. What I learned most, is that networking is really about looking for opportunities to put two people you know together for their mutual benefit. In other words, to be a good networker, you need to go network to help out people you know. By doing that, your own network expands, and people are more likely to help you in return. Karma basically. This also helps in your personal life. Its like the old-timey tradition of hosting a dinner party and then introducing two friends of yours who don't know each other but you know will get along well.
  
  
• Various books on pop psychology. Understanding how people think (including yourself) can help you socially. I think this is especially important for relationships / friends / family, and it can also help you protect yourself emotionally from the wrong kind of people.
  
  
• Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman. A lot of the problems people have on this reddit are really "emotional" ones. If you know you have to talk to girls to get a GF, and you want a GF, then why wouldn't you talk to girls? Your logic is sound, but your emotions (fear, low self-esteem, etc) are what prevent you from acting. Understand your emotions and they will be your second brain, making you twice as smart. Fail to understand them and you are a slave to them.
  
  Social skills is a really broad category and really involves a lifetime of study. What could be more rewarding than having quality relationships with family, friends, significant others, etc? Its worth putting the effort into continuous self improvement here.

Funny - I went through a similar transition when I was only a year or two younger than you.

What you need is a goal outside of your relationship - a driving force for yourself and your career, dreams about what kind of kickass life you want to be living, ideas on where you want to travel and live, and plans to make those things happen. You need to be fearless about deciding what you want in life, and all the assertiveness, confidence, and self-reliance that are inherent in womanhood will come as a result of that.

You need to think long and hard about what you want out of life, and then decide to make it happen. Nothing is too grandiose - do you want to live in the South of France? It can happen. Do you want to eventually own your own company? It can happen. The luxury of your age is that you have time to make these things happen.

To me, being a "woman" means you don't give a shit what other people think about you because you've got your goals and desires figures out (but you are still kind and polite). It means that you're life isn't dictated by fear - and it means that you are self-reliant. Therefore, any man, any career choice, any group of friends that comes into your life is evaluated by you according to whether it brings good or bad to the table for you. You don't settle for anything out of convenience.

It comes down to assertiveness, confidence, and a willingness to shamelessly ask for what you want. You already sound intelligent, you just need to learn to be stronger; with strength, you gain sex appeal. Lots of it. All of a sudden, you're a hot item, because you need to be won, you don't seem to just settle for whatever comes your way.

Know your value, know your worth. I can guarantee you it's much higher than you think right now.

Regarding your partner: if you want to still be with him, do so, but it would be a red flag for me if I hadn't had sex for months with my BF - especially at 25. Why spin your wheels at your age with someone who isn't setting you on fire with excitement? I'll tell you why: because you're afraid to leave him.

Don't live your life out of fear. Ever. Dive in full-on, take risks, and push yourself to keep growing.

Read this ridiculous book: Why Men Love B*****s - just get it! It's great, it summarizes the idea of being kind, but also prioritizing yourself first.

Read and complete the exercises in this book: The Assertiveness Workbook - a wonderful, scientifically backed-up personal course in being more assertive.

Read this great book: The Defining Decade

Get better at socializing: How to Win Friends and Influence People

In terms of motivational books to figure out what you want to do with your life? Jesus - there's too many good ones out there. Google any list of "top motivational books", "books about planning life" etc. To start - the books Willpower and Grit were useful for me.

Additionally, there's Brene Brown for a softer approach to finding what you're about as a human being. Braving the Wilderness is a great pick - and for something a bit more direct, read Unfu*k Yourself.

This is going to sound nuts, but read all of these. If you play videogames, stop. If you spend too much time on reddit, stop. Read to pass your time now, and keep growing. These books will help you learn to be strong, sexy, and give you control over your life.

THIS IS PART TWO of my reply. Read the other one first.

> I figured I might ask you this, since you seem to be a very down-to-earth guy

Just a little further down the road than you are, that's all.

> I really don't want to check pickup-sites for advice on this sort of stuff.

Banish that thought from your mind right now. Granted, PUA (Pick Up Artist) sites and books are typically manipulative and somewhat sociopathic, dating advice books and websites are a goldmine of information that you NEED to check out. I felt the exact same way as you did, and I held tight until I was 32 years old and realized I was about 15 years behind the times.

All my friends know how to date, and did things in the books and websites. Why do you want to ignore the advice and information that is the answer? Are you trying to learn to ride a bike ... alone ... with your eyes closed ... and your hands in the air? "You're gonna have a bad time."

Here are some must read books:

This one turned my world upside down. It was hard to swallow at first, but he is a genius. Please take the time to read it. If you do, and try even 5% of the advice, you will be 5% better than every guy out there who tries nothing.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?s=f10601b34e3f24d3d3a978a08060b7ce&attachmentid=6412303&d=1385621786

This is a great book. I firmly believe in being honest with women, which is something you lack. This is a major flaw in your approach and personality. Essentially, when you do not make your intentions clear, you are a liar, a scumbag, a cheater. That is what is most detrimental to you as a person. You also have to learn to be honest with yourself.

http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426259631&sr=8-1

And the guy who helped me understand women:

http://www.askmen.com/dating/doclove

Read his articles. Think about your past situations. See how they apply. I strongly recommend you buy his book, but check eBay for used copies first. The book is poorly written and organized, but it's the most brilliant advice on the planet. It's just so obvious.

> I'm not so good at the flirty-type of conversation;

So get out and practice. What I did was to go to the local upscale mall, where all the women who were working were drop dead gorgeous, and I'd go into each store and tell them I was looking for a gift for my friend who is a girl - but NOT my GF. I'd then ask them what they suggested was cool. Then they would suggest something and I'd playfully laugh and say something like "No, really? Oh come on, is that the best idea you can come up with? Did I mention I actually LIKE my friend and don't want her to hate me? What else do you have?" I'd smile big, laugh, and generally make her try harder to impress me. In the end I would walk away and say I'd have to think about it. But practicing like this upped my game tremendously.

The most important thing to do is NOT say the first thing that comes to mind, but rather the SECOND or THIRD thing. That second thing sets you apart from all the other guys who say the same things.

> my first relationship (which ended up being 2 years) happened when I was 18, and basically we talked online for a bunch of nights in a row, then I invited her over and we watched some Breaking Bad, and a second date later I asked her quote "Would you want to go out with me?" and that was that.

Yeah, but you were 18. Now you're 21. You're an adult. Women are adults. It's different now. You have to grow or you will be left far, far behind.

> Thanks a ton again for talking with me, really appreciate it.

You're welcome.

Now, let me ask you this - what other woman have you seen around school who you find attractive? How are you going to ask her out?

Tip: First dates should always be on Sun-Thurs night. NO first dates on Fri or Sat nights. So, if you get a number (your goal), wait 4-5 days to call her, then offer a date on a weekday night.

I detest games in dating... but there are definite pitfalls to spilling it all off the bat. I've been in a casual relationship where we each went full transparency upon first meeting. It worked to an extent, but it also destroys any semblance of mystery. Part of dating is getting to know the other person and them getting to know you. Trust and love are built through experience and time together.

A month or two ago, someone posted something about discovering the INFJ strength in dating... which was being mysterious. I can't remember who, but it resonated with me. He said he'd been finding much more dating success by slowly revealing who he was and how he felt. Not so much manipulating as just not going full glom off the bat, if he likes someone.

Mark Manson's book, Models, makes some very good points and introduces some solid techniques for dating with authenticity, too. It's geared toward men, but I think much of the information is applicable to anyone. The first 15% of the book is pretty self-promotey, and there are some misogynistic generalizations here and there, but it was worth my time. Much of it is about building confidence just by being yourself and taking a zen - like approach of being grateful for any response to a declaration of interest. I'm into you! You're into me? Cool, let's see where it goes. Not into me? Cool, thanks for not letting me waste my time chasing you. I feel like it's a healthy version of playing it cool, without lying or repressing yourself.

I was not prepared for this, but I may have just read one of the best book reviews of my life about your captain's The Game:

"I know I'm taking a risk by even acknowledging its existence and my familiarity with its contents. It may not be interpreted kindly that an Orthodox rabbi (in training) reads *this* widely. But this book tells a story of ethical tension that is, hands down, the most powerful treatise on morals and group dynamics I have ever read. Period.


I found it at once the modern man's sefer mussar of choice, and the endgame of every single Reality TV show every made. But it is not for everyone.


You'll know if it's for you after reading the first 10 pages.


(The first 5 are here: [http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/00605...])


THE GREAT novelty in this book is simple: credibility. The author walks down roads, and perhaps comes to conclusions, that ultimately reflect an eerily familiar set of values. However, this presentation is backed up by his experience, and so we trust his authority.


And who is "we"?: non-authoritarian, ethical, sexually aware (not necessarily active) human beings who thoughtfully approach the question: What kind of relationship is a good one? Because before we even seek an Other, we must choose: wordless college hook-up, one-night stand, short term "friend", long term friend "to have fun with", companion, life partner, or spouse/best-friend to start a family with. This book may make you question your unconscious assumptions or conscious decisions in this area.


(I admit my assumption that female readers can also gain these things from a man's story.)


Authoritarians ask their authorities (clergy, philosophers, etc.) and skip the discovery process I describe. Unethical people should have little interest in the book, as ethical-tension is the book’s essential content, and they can get more direct material online. Finally, sexually -unaware or -sensitive folk (e.g., modest or religious individuals) won’t stomach the mildly graphic descriptions of what the protagonist lived through – ignorance is bliss, for them.


Understand:
A 'pickup artist' is an amateur social scientist who adopts a language of "technology" complete with acronyms and jargon in order to systematize interpersonal relations: in this specific instance, how to get girls into bed. With the internet as catalyst, they formed a community, granting the unprecedented ability to share knowledge and methods.


The author is an NYT and then Rolling Stone reporter who, born and raised a geek, discovered this community of pickup artists. To make a long story short, he mastered the "art". How did it change him? Does power corrupt? Esp. power over sexuality?


The book is selfish. I.e., it is about self-discovery, self-esteem, self-worth. It is about the connection sex has to the self, and reveals much about the modern cultural condition. It also tells a story, and effortlessly, such that rays of life’s truths stream though the filter of (every) author’s unavoidable sins of omission. You will learn what you want to from the book, and therein lies the "danger" in my recommendation.


Full disclosure: I vicariously got something out of my system, learned about the human being, and myself. It validated many concepts I have about friendship, group dynamics, and honesty. It also serves as a warning about the evils of backbiting and gossip, misogyny, and coveting. It has, in its way, said the same thing as such classic Jewish works as Mesilat Yesharim and Orhot Tzadikim (though they say much more as well), and modern day "classics" like Magic Touch and the entire Gila Manolson oeuvre. It complements Wendy Shalit's "Modesty" nicely. I am not a fan or groupie: I am engaged to a woman who has trebled the joy and light in my life, and opened up new worlds to me, my teacher, my student – so I am not a consumer of this. And the only habit I have adopted since reading the book is to smile whenever I walk into a room of people I don't know. Though perhaps, that is life-changing enough..."

You are much more normal than you think, and your problem--no matter how embarassing--is quite common. Here is a story to illustrate what I'm talking about. If you don't have time to read the whole story, here is a good quote from it:

>To be blunt, it fucking sucks that everyone seems to be having sex but me. The idea that so many people just don’t care about it–and yet nobody seems to want to do it with me–that really hurts. As a general idea, I think it’s fine. I don’t see any moral problem with it. I think if I could, I’d have casual sex as much as possible. I think people need to loosen up about judging others’ sexual habits.

OK, well...a few things. Most men struggle a great deal finding a partner willing to have sex with them. I am married (and very lucky in this respect), but I have a few male friends in their late thirties who are single. One of them last had sex two years ago. The other, as far as I know, hasn't found anyone who will sleep with him since he broke up with his girlfriend over three years ago. Guys who are tall, good-looking, charming, or in the vicinty of women who aren't picky may well have as much sex as you think they are having. But they probably aren't.
So I want to give you two pieces of advice. The first is that you will have sex by pursuing the kinds of relationships that lead to sex. That sounds self-evident, but ask yourself if you are doing that in earnest. If you are pursuing a woman who has made it clear that she isn't interested in physical intimacy, for example, then acknowledge this and set your sights elsewhere. Don't be afraid to commicate sexual intetest, either. Here is an excellent dating advice book that tells you how to do this.
Second, just because you are unable to find a willing parnter at the moment, that does not mean that you cannot have sexual feelings or act on them. It's a bit of an open secret, but the platform I am using to communicate to ypu right now is one of the best places to find amateur pornography online. If you are not opposed to using pornography, then I encourage you to take advantage of this fact. Learning how to soothe yourself sexually in the absence of a parnter is one of the most important skills you need to develop to make it as a guy today, so please consider this advice and confront any feelings of guilt or shame that it might inspire.
Lastly, be patient with yourself. Set goals that aren't simply experiencing sex and work toward them. Enjoy yourself as you do. You are wired for pleasure, as well as disappointment. Which one you experience more of, believe it or not, has much more to do with the decisions that you make more than the judgments that other people make about you. Best of luck. I know this sounds trite, but have fun. I'm saying it because I mean it.

> Does it help to be straight forward (but not too straight forward) that you want sex with someone?

The goal is to want her to feel that you would like to have sex with her, but you dont need to have sex with her.

> How do you compliment a girls looks or physique in a seductive way without being creepy?

Stick with complimenting her style. Complimenting on the things she clearly put effort into doing is much more meaningful than complimenting her on something she was born with and can not control. The key to compliments is having reason why you like what you see, and letting her know that reason. "I like [this] about you because [reason]".

> What do women really think when a guy buys them a drink?

If she likes you, she probably thinks its a means to spend more time doing something together. If she doesn't like you, she probably just wants a free drink.

> Do they like it when you mention that you have a lot of sexual experience?

no.

> Is it easier to seduce women in a loud bumpin' club or a quiet cocktail lounge?

Yes.

> What shows confidence through looks?

If you confident in yourself, you believe everything about you matters. If everything about you matters, everything about how you look matters. If you matter most, how would you look?

> Should money be brought in the situation?

No

> Do girls always go for men with lots of money?

No

> It would be nice to also get some tips on things I haven't asked too.

Judging by these questions, you seem to be a little misguided. Don't fret, that's why this sub is here. Many people in the pickup community started down this road after they read (the now grossly outdated) Neil Strauss' "The game". My personal advice is to start with more foundational inner-game concepts about seduction, and then move on to the more applicable outter-game techniques later. Foundational concepts to pickup are rooted in evolutionary bio/psych. I would recommend reading Mark Manson's Models. Trust me, I wouldn't recommend Models if it wasn't worth the time and money. These concepts could change your entire prospective on how social interactions really work, and sometimes thats all you need.

Much of my research has been focused on men who grew up under an emotionally abusive, narcissistic female parent ("Nparent"). Boys with high levels of intelligence who grow up under these conditions develop defense mechanisms to avoid the irrational, and often unpredictable, wrath of their Nparent.

One of these defense mechanisms is a highly developed sense of empathy, or in other words "the ability to understand and share the feelings of others." Children from abusive homes often develop higher-than-normal levels of awareness for other people's emotions as a survival response; because while growing up, a child's well-being was determined by the emotional state of the Nparent, whose mood and behavior could radically and unpredictably shift without warning or provocation. So, these children learn how to observe their Nparent and be aware of their every-changing emotional state at all times.

There are a couple consequences of this. First, many of these children learn how to interact with other people in a disarming way. These sort of children do very well in professional sales environments because they have an advanced ability to "read" people.

Which leads me to a second consequence: primarily being in a state of reaction to other people's actions. If life were a game of chess, you would be black, always reacting to white's first move. Again, as a defense mechanism, children in abusive homes learn strategies to disarm or satisfy their Nparent. Since the Nparent is always on the offensive and the child is always on defense, everything the child is trained to do is counter, repel, or otherwise disarm the actions of others. And these children can become very well adept at developing strategies to anticipate the needs of others.

So while the bulk of these boys' training is as a reaction to the wants and needs of others, these boys are not taught how to be in charge, how to identify and exert their own wants and needs in a relationship in a healthy way. In every relationship, there is a leader and there is a follower. Your relationship training growing up has always been to be reactionary, to be a damn good follower because your survival depended on it.

Now, you are dating, and women are looking for a leader in the relationship. The problem is that you don't have any training on how to be a leader in relationships. Like a fish in water, your whole world growing up has been focused on being the best survivor you can be, and that has meant being the best listener, the best reactor, the best follower you can be because you never knew what it meant to be in control.

Shifting gears into being on the opposite side of that fence, by being the person whose Will is exerted instead of being the person upon whom someone else's Will is exerted, is difficult. It's like riding a bike for the first time: no matter how many books you read on riding a bike, you're still going to fall the first few times. Becoming comfortable as a leader in a relationship is learning experience. It takes time to explore what that means for you and what that means to the women who follow you.

Diving deeper, if you grew up in this sort of environment, you know what it means to be taken advantage of; you've seen what it means for a person to manipulate some unsuspecting individual into fulfilling the manipulator's desires. Like a used-car salesman, you may view the whole experience of "using your magic" to get other people to do what you want as coercive, as something negative. You feel bad because maybe you feel like you're taking advantage of these women; and knowing how badly it sucks to be taken advantage of, you feel uncomfortable escalating things because of it. You haven't necessarily been so accommodating to others because you wanted to, you've done it as a means of survival, because you've had to in order to avoid punishment. You can't fathom or haven't considered the reality that there are people out there who genuinely desire to support others, not out of a sense of avoiding pain but because they truly feel a desire to support the fulfillment of someone else's Will.

If any of this applies to you, then here's my advice: first, recognize that you've been playing the part of the follower in relationships. Your approach has been reactionary, to anticipate the needs of others in order to satisfy those needs, as you feel a good partner should. The problem with this approach is that it requires the other person to have definitive needs. If they don't have needs that can be defined, then you won't know what to do; and nothing you do will satisfy them.

This might explain some issues you've had with LTRs in the past. There's the ongoing joke that if you ask a woman "what would you like to have for dinner?," her response is ____. You already know the stereotypical response (it's "I don't know", if you didn't already guess). While publicly men will lament about female indecisiveness, TRP explains that women aren't interested in making the decision about dinner because they've already made the only decision that matters: they chose you. Now, it's your job to decide what's for dinner; it's your responsibility to figure out what you both are doing tonight; she depends on you to take the lead. And since she's waiting for you to exert your Will, she often doesn't have definitive wants to satisfy. This may very well be the reason why you kept expecting insight from previous LTRs on what you should be doing for them, all the while they were becoming frustrated with you because you were not exhibiting the very same indicators that you sought from her.

Second, you need to learn how to be a leader in relationships, learn how to be in control. There are strong, positive leaders and there are shitty, negative leaders. Realize that exerting your Will in a relationship is not inherently bad thing. There are ways to do it positively. Women seek this strong leadership in relationships with a man. Just like you presently react to someone else to satisfy their needs, women desire to do that exact thing for you. So if you're not exerting your Will in a relationship, then your relationship with her will invariably fall apart.

So get over feeling bad about exerting your Will. Realize that a huge percentage of women desire to support the Will of a strong man. This desire is so ingrained that a surprising quantity of women admit to sexually fantasizing about being raped. This psychology tells us that even under what we might consider to be the most severe of circumstances (being raped), a situation that you would overwhelmingly consider to be "bad," many women still generally sexually fantasize about being "taken" and satisfying a man's Will by his force. By being a man who exerts his Will, you are quite actually giving women what they truly seek: a man who knows what he wants and ACTS on it. So in your chess game with women, be the white piece and make the first move; let them react to you, your desires, your Will. They want you to take charge, and you're hurting yourself and disappointing them when you don't.

Final thoughts, pick up copies of these two books: (1) "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover, and (2) "Models" by Mark Manson. First read No More Mr Nice Guy.

Having gone through something similar I'd recommend a few things. First, recommit to your male friendships or make some new ones. Hang out with the guys regularly. There's something really grounding about good friendships without sexual tension.

Next, I'd read some books to help you figure out how you want to approach life and dating once you're ready for that. The most helpful for me were the following 3 books: No More Mr Nice Guy (This should be required reading for high school boys. It's fantastic.), Models (the ideas from No More Mr Nice Guy applied to dating without the sleaziness some "pick up" material can delve into), and The Way of the Superior Man (some don't like it because of its spiritual bent but the ideas really spoke to me).

I'd also like to applaud you for deciding not to date until the divorce is final. It's a very individual decision, but that's the same choice I made. It just felt right to me. My last piece of advice is a continuation of that idea: don't be in a rush to get back into the dating game even once you're divorce is final. Take some time for yourself. Do some of the things you wanted to do but couldn't while you were married. It may be travel, a particular hobby, or something like changing up your personal style/hair/facial hair (I grew a beastly beard after being clean shaven for years and something simple like that brought me immense joy). Do some things for yourself and get comfortable in your own skin as a single guy. That will not only help you heal but will actually make you more attractive once you're ready to date again.

Anyway, those are the things that I've personally found to be helpful. If you have any follow up questions please let me know. I feel for you and wish you the best of luck.

As many of our INTP compatriots, we have wit on our side. I try to use this to my full advantage. Women like intelligence, and if you can tantalize their minds, their image of you becomes much bolder.

Of course, the thought of rejection causes stress and can cause cessation of any further action. This is a fundamental flaw. Every rejection is an opportunity to learn how the "system" of flirting works. The more you try with sincerity, the more comfortable you become, and more well versed you are.

I'd never consider myself a "ladies man", but if I catch even the slightest glimpse of interest from an attractive member of the opposite sex, I use that as my first bit of motivation; They have interest in you already. Foster the growth of that interest using your intellectual acuity, and dare to be bold. Something I've had to learn over the course of too many years is that women want a man who takes charge. Feign your confidence if you must in the beginning, but you'll soon learn that a confident wit is an invaluable asset.

Also, as outlandish as it may seem, this book helped me tremendously. It may seem primal and deceptive, but there are tips for confidence that allowed me to believe in myself when approaching a woman.

Have courage, embrace your wit, and always have the mentality of the no-lose situation mentioned above.

Dear Stranger on the internet,

I think the question is a bit flawed, so it will be challenging for anyone to give you a satisfying answer. Is it normal to sleep with escorts? Sure. Is there anything inherently wrong with that? No, I don't think so. As a general rule, if an activity brings you satisfaction and doesn't cause any harm to yourself or others then it will be okay. I'll leave it at that because I think others here have already expressed this general idea better.

What I really hope to do in this post is to pass on some advice, from one internet stranger to another.

1. Firstly. you are young. so so young. at 22, you're basically still a kid. (I'm only 25! and I also still think I'm a kid!) but even looking back on the past 3 years I recognize how much I have changed and how much my attitudes (particularly concerning relationships and sex) have changed and matured. The point being: You're circumstances will change, and you will change in response. If you feel discouraged or disheartened by the way things are now then I want to remind you that you have a lot of life left to live :). Don't be too hard on yourself buddy.
   
   
2. Secondly, YOU have the power to change your circumstances. YOU have the power to change your attitudes. YOU have the power to change your outlook on life. Too often people get stuck in a rut and they lose sight of the crucial truth that there is virtually nothing in your life that can't be improved/developed/reassessed.
   
   
3. IF you take one thing away from my post, take this. Read Models by Mark Manson. It changed my life. the book is a mixture of a classic self-improvement book and a practical advice guide to interacting with women. But it is soooo much more than just that. Manson describes a healthy, comprehensive model for what true confidence actually is, and lays out some concrete steps that a person can take to get there. He argues that honesty should be the guiding principle in all aspects of ones life; be honest with yourself, your desires, and your interests. And express those things honestly to the world.
   
   That description doesn't do the book justice, but I would strongly recommend you read it. It is fantastic in more ways than I have time or energy to describe.
   
   I wish you luck and happiness in the future!
   
   

• Friendly internet stranger who read a book and thinks you should also read the book.

You seem like you made a lot of the right steps, man. It sucks about the best friend thing. I've been there too. Doing stuff all the time like picking up hobbies or exploring your state would be great ways to keep your mind off of things. I'm really glad you hit the gym. The best thing you can be doing is working on yourself right now. Don't let anyone tell you how long you need to get over it either. You'll know when you are and when it's time to let go. If you care for reading at all then definitely pick up a few books. Listening to podcasts is another really great thing for getting over the loss. I liked listening to things like Snap Judgment and This American Life. It just helped to hear stories of other people lives. Hearing their struggles and successes, it just helps.
As for dating someone else -http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
This book did wonders for me. This book is not about how to get laid ten times a week or whatever. It's more about how to be yourself and be okay with that. You'll get through the depression, man. You've learned a lot from this experience and you'll come out the other side stronger. You know more now about how you want to love and be loved, how you think you ought to be as a friend or a lover.
Good luck, man.

You need to go read The Truth by Neil Strauss. Strauss was in the same exact situation as you are now - grew up unattractive, learned how to get girls, became a player, got into a committed relationship but couldn't stop cheating - and, inevitably, he got caught. This book goes through the real reasons why he couldn't stop cheating, how it fucked up his relationship with someone he loved more than anything, everything he tried to address it that didn't help, and what did help. He ended up repairing his relationship with her after spending 3 years apart working through his bullshit.

I know you're good at hiding this - so was Strauss. You're still going to get caught.

You talk about the thrill of the chase a lot, and about how you're your girlfriends second guy ever. I think there's a few things going on here, probably mostly subconscious for you. First off, there's a madonna-whore complex at play. In your head, your girlfriend is a good girl - you love her, desire her, and want to protect her, but there's a line in your head between madonna-archetypes like her and the whore-archetypes you hook up with, and on some level you take it for granted that you'll never experience the thrill of the hunt with a "good girl" you're in a committed relationship with. You believe that nobody can be both. I'm pointing this out because this is a belief, not a fact. Second, and again I think this is a subconscious belief, I suspect that you intermittently feel trapped when you're in a committed relationship, and cheating is an outlet that lets you feel like she doesn't have all of you. Cheating becomes a way to hold a part of yourself back from the relationship - you build walls by lying and withholding information from your girlfriend, by going on sexual adventures with other people instead of with her. People tend to avoid intimacy in this way because true intimacy - giving their partners "too much" of themselves - feels suffocating. This suggests a deep insecurity about boundaries - possibly you don't trust your partner to respect them, possibly you don't trust yourself to set and maintain them. Third - because you're constantly throwing up walls, you've never experienced the absolute thrill of intimacy within a committed relationship. You're chasing the thrill of novelty and random connection and cutting yourself off from a thrill that, I can tell you from personal experience, is even more powerful.

I feel a lot of compassion for you, and it's commendable that you're reaching out. You said that you know this doesn't feel right, and hopefully some of what I've written is close enough to your truth to get you closer to understanding why that is. Please go read that book. It made a huge difference for me, and if you can commit to working through this I think you'll be living a much happier life than you are now.

Hey Friend,

I'm just a stranger passing by and what I say may mean something, but at the worst, it'll mean nothing, so no harm done

I can empathize with what you are going through to a certain point as I've dealt with similar issues. If I may offer some bits of thought that I've picked up over my life:

What made me really optimistic reading this was this little part you put in: "I've since stopped smoking, started going to bed before 3 am every night, and cut down on my drinking significantly. I've made some progress over the last few months: I'm finally leaving for school, I volunteered to help disabled people exercise throughout this summer (which was extremely daunting due to my social anxiety), and I'm starting to get back in shape."
You seem to have started making attempts to make yourself feel better and that is great, since it is usually the first step to getting happier. but as you continue on your journey just remember that change is one of the hardest things that we as humans can do and it takes time to see results so don't get to down if things don't get better quickly, just keep grinding.

Secondly, something I always struggled with was comparing myself to other people, however over time I've come to realize that comparing yourself to others, is one of the most self destructive behaviors a person can have. we are all on a different schedule with our lives, you mentioned that you feel bad that your hometown friends have gone out to see the world while you stayed and "withered" away at home. the thing is, what they are doing, does not impact your life. Focus on you and your needs and your goals, it doesn't matter what everyone else is doing as long as your striving for something that really means to you.

Now when it comes to interacting with people, I have to fight the same battle, Its my worst nightmare to have to meet new people or go to social events. however over time I've gotten better, and If you are a book person i would recommend two books:

How to make friends and influence people - Dale Carnegie
Its a great resource on human psychology and offers great advice on how to deal with people and situations while also offering a great guideline on how to have positive interactions with people

https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1504163698&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=how+to+win+friends+and+influence+people

The Second would be "Models" - Mark Manson
While its technically a dating advice book, its far more than that. this book goes in depth about what it means to be attractive and have a fulfilling life, its a wonderful motivational book as it goes to a much deeper level then most. (It is absolutely not your typical dating advice book where it feeds you lines and teaches mannerisms, it is so much more than that its just really down to earth and honest)

https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1504163932&sr=1-1&keywords=models+mark+manson

The thing is, new adventures are scary, change is scary, and moving to a different place while exciting can bring forth feelings of insecurity. But in the end, we can either let those feelings decide who we are or we can take a stand against them and actively strive to improve ourselves.

You are doing great and I want you to know that Whatever you choose to do I'm over here rooting for you, you got this. sending positive vibes your way my friend :)

Rules of the Game - by Neil Strauss

http://www.amazon.com/Rules-Game-Neil-Strauss/dp/0061911690/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1302470632&sr=8-1

I can't believe noone has mentioned it yet. If you want to finally start having relationships with people, getting girls this is the way to go. It takes you through the steps required to interact meaningfully with people (the basis of relationships) and takes you through the basics involved from meeting someone to taking them on a date. (It's a well known idea that there are a number of stages involved in for lack of a better word the courting process, eg. first meeting someone and connecting on some level, building comfort- so that you are both comfortable around each other etc. - this book takes you through the basics)

And the best thing is its not written by some douche- this guy is genuine. The reason he wrote the book was to help guys like me and you who are trying to figure out how to start being social, dating girls and having alot of sex. He's the author of The Game

http://www.amazon.com/Game-Penetrating-Secret-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1302471001&sr=1-1

a great adventure into the world of pickup, it's an absolute blast to read!!! (if you really want check it out quick without buying just yet, you can torrent it hint hint*) Anyway so he has some mad adventures, he went from this normal average guy to this guy thats irresistable to women, bedding many, MANY of them. Its hard to describe this without making him or me sound like a douche but he's awesome and genuine, he frikkin wrote a book to help guys out damnit!!!

Anyway the reason I'm saying all of this is well, I went through the exact same thing. I'm 22 now. About a year ago now I had enough of the bull$hit and decided to figure out how to get with girls and be social, figure all that shit out. Well, I succeeded. Life is better than ever, I have no problems talking to girls, dating them and fucking the hell out of them ^.^ Also figured out who (well still working on it) are the people in my life I can trust, who will help me and who want me to succeed and who are the fucking deadweights holding me back that I have to forget. Ain't being no douche but about a month ago I was seeing 3 girls every week regularly to fuck and I accidentally made one of them fall in love with me >.<, fuck I wasn't prepared for that considering I didn't lay down the groundwork for our relationship n' stuff.

In the end, I realized who I was (still on the journey) and this is the basis of social interaction. The ideal world should be inter-dependant, each person knows what they wants and interact with each other in that respect. Having a laugh with someone is fun, thats why we do it! But we should never give up who we are in order to do it.
Fuck lol, that's way too little words to explain that idea, but the idea comes from Stephen Covey's 7 habits of highly effective people (EPIC BOOK)- which lays the groundwork out on how to live life.

Anyway, PLEASE, PLEASE have a look into The Rules of the Game, I think this is exactly what you're looking for.

Send me a message- I'm here to help a fellow man who needs help out :)

I understand the 'put my foot down' mentality you're going for, but from what you've written it comes off as coming from a place of insecurity. Yes you have to establish boundaries for what you consider to be acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, but more importantly you have to recognize when you're doing things reactionarily to others or if you're truly acting out of self respect. The author Ayn Rand discusses this concept in Fountainhead,

>"Others dictated his convictions, which he did not hold, but he was satisfied that others believed he held them. Others were his motive power and his prime concern. He didn’t want to be great, but to be thought great. He didn’t want to build, but to be admired as a builder." Fountainhead Chapter IX, Part 4, pp. 605

Are you doing things to show others you have self-respect and boundaries, boundaries which are defined by reactions of others, or do you have self-defined boundaries developed out of self-respect.

I hope you'll take this as constructive criticism rather than an attack on your person.

Ok let's be real for a second. You were fairly invested in her and she didn't reciprocate. She sent some signals of disinterest that you picked up on 'acting distant and not making an effort to message me', then she sent a soft rejection, 'I'm busy' (I'm guessing she didn't propose another time by saying something like 'I'm busy but I can do this Saturday').

Because you were still invested in her, you pushed through the indicators and tried to get her to return investment in you by [demonstrating value] initiating conversation, cracking jokes and being nice. She didn't respond for a few weeks and then you 'put your foot down' and unfriended her. That's not establishing boundaries, that's acting reactionarily out of a place of insecurity.

Let's talk about what you could've done differently, and the underlying mindset behind what you did in comparison.

• I don't know how the date actually went, clearly there was a different perception of how the date went. Let's skip that since there's no way of figuring it out.
  
• She said she was busy and didn't make an effort to reschedule. This is often the biggest hint you will get, you can't blame girls for doing this rather than being upfront because A) EDIT: Most guys take rejection poorly, and some guys are actually psycho B) You expect them to be confrontational exclusively your benefit. By continuing to message her, and demonstrating value, all you're doing is sending the message 'I'm socially tone deaf. I'm needy and invested in you so I'm trying to show I have value so you return investment'. Instead you could've said "Hey I had a great time with you, you know how to reach me if you wanna meet up again.' then just walked away. That comes from a place of 'This genuine, I have the social grace to recognize your disinterest and respect it, I value myself and haven't invested too much into you but I think you're interesting so let me know if you change your mind, otherwise I'm doing my own thing".
  
• When she becomes unresponsive after a 'I'm busy', it's 100% clear she's not interested, You 'put your foot down' and unfriended her... what you really did was try to show her that you have boundaries and 'punish' her by unfriending her in a, quite honestly, petty juvenile way. If we're brutally honest, she probably didn't have you on her mind during those few weeks, and you unfriending her is you making yourself feel better about the whole situation in a vindictive manner that she probably didn't notice. You already wasted your time by brushing past her disinterest signals, that's on you.
  
• In a comment below you said 'There’s a girl there who is cute and she asked to hang out with me and I said I was busy even though I wasn’t 😅'. Seriously dude? That's a little cringy. You're playing games and being disingenuous to demonstrate value. It's a move that comes out of insecurity, 'I'll pretend I'm busier than I actually am."
  
  Here are a few books which I think may be helpful for you to read.
  
  Subtle art of not giving a fuck
  
  Models: Attract Women Through Honesty

>Maybe this is just me being paranoid, but I'm fairly certain he was trying to get into my pants.

Lol, of course he was! He asked for your number, you gave it, you texted, you arranged a date...to him, this means everything is progressing well, and that he may have a chance with you.

Sounds like he's inexperienced and bad at romance, because he doesn't read others well enough to recognize when they return his interest so as to not come off as pushy. Either that or he just doesn't care about your comfort or interest so long as he gets what he wants.

You feel skeeved because his social cluelessness meant that he wasn't calibrating his actions to you. Most guys won't escalate physically unless you are sending plenty of clear, unmistakable signals that you are into it, when they try much smaller things (holding your hand, hand on the knee, touching your shoulder in conversation, etc). The fact that he kept jumping to much more physical things without checking first to make sure that you are receptive to smaller things, says that he is either clueless about dating and social interaction in general, or a pushy bully who doesn't care how you feel just so long as he gets his way. Either way, you are right to feel skeeved.

As far as how to act now, here's what I'd suggest. In a friendly but VERY blunt way, the next time he contacts you, tell him, "I've decided that it would be better if we are friends at work but not see each other outside of work. The other night you pushed my boundaries too far and I was uncomfortable. But I'm not mad at you or anything and I don't want this to affect anything between us at work."

But the bigger piece of advice I have for you is to read this book = "Mystery Method: How to Get Beautiful Women Into Bed". It is considered THE definitive manual for pickup artists everywhere - any guy wanting to get into pickup will read this book first. It's short, readable, informative, and VERY interesting. The fact that you consider yourself naive and inexperienced says to me that you need to educate yourself on how men think and what the male approach is to dating and sex. I think if you read this book, it will open your eyes in many, many ways both to what happened to you that night and to dating and men in general. It will help you protect yourself and get what you want out of dating, by knowing what (some) men do. And I'm not suggesting or implying that all men are like this at all, far from it - but I think you need to know that some men think this way, and I think you need to understand it, to overcome some of the naive-ness that comes from your inexperience.

I have a pdf file of this book on my computer, and I could email it to you in its entirety if you don't want to buy it, PM me if you are interested.

edit: upon rereading my comment, I think I didn't emphasize this enough - this guy is a total creep. Don't be alone with him again. The fact that he kept pushing after you did things like push his hands away or turn away from a kiss, that says to me that he does not care about violating you. Don't be alone again because he could rape you. I'm serious. He's not a good guy. Good guys won't push you when you seem uncomfortable.

A couple of things from my experience:

- I wouldn't necessarily say she's gone full poly. I would more categorize her reactions as NRE. And as such, if you look through that lense then her excitement and overwhelm for experiencing something new with someone else.
- Jealousy/envy/inadequacy is so is something we normally deal with in relationships in general. Often people new to open relationships will create a prescriptive hierarchical relationship structure to protect against that or to limit what their partners can and can't to do to ensure our positions of importance are maintained in the relationship.
- Mistakes will be made when opening up your relationship. That doesn't mean it's damaged or that it needs to be thrown out. But you also have to consider that new agreements are being created and a paradigm shift is being made. In that transition you and she (and other partners and metamours) will all make mistakes. Have room for these and keep an open channel of communication, compassion, and trust for the people you love and want in your life. Holding mistakes over people's heads will only further complicate the issue.
- Did she cheat on you? I would be hard pressed to see it that way, but I get where you're coming from. Again, I'd invite you to look at it a different way: You both established the ability for each other to explore sexually with others, but your perception of her current situation is that she's creating a poly relationship. I don't that she's doing that but rather, as mentioned above, is experiencing NRE and expressing it that way. For me, when I first started non-monogamy my experience when connecting with others was love... until I continued to distinguish for myself that this wasn't love but rather NRE.
- Some people experience being polyamorous, while others in the in relationship might not. My current nesting partner isn't polyamorous but IS non-monogamous. I'm polyamorous. So although the conversation for you both will evolve to developing long-term meaningful love emotions for others, that doesn't mean you're both REQUIRED to do that. Equal but not necessarily even.


I always recommend people new to non-monogamy read A Smart Girl's Guide as a way to help get a full picture on what you want from a non-mongamous relationship. I also recommend you and your partner read it together and work through the exercises.


I also recommend the following podcasts to listen to. Again, listening to them together or apart but then discussing together has always made a difference in the relationships I'm building with people.

- New Relationship Energy (NRE)

- Basics of Boundaries, Rules, Agreements, and Boundaries

- Relationship Hierarchy

- Relationship Anarchy 101, Relationship Anarchist Cookbook


Good luck and update us when you can.

Here's some advice from someone who is almost twice your age:

Don't worry about it. Sex is great, and fun and all those things, but focusing on trying to get laid is just going to come across as desperate. You're not running out of time, and It's not "harder" after college. Relax.

Focus on you. Focus on your hobbies and interests. Read a book,
or two.

Become the best version of yourself and the rest will work itself out. I promise.

Edit: I just read your post history because I wanted to ty and dig into the heart of the problem you are having. Your posts reveal a lot about your personality, and I think that some of the communities that you are hanging out in are giving you bad advice for how to solve your problem. I also think that your problem has more to do with you than it does with other people. I know that may upset you, but it's important that someone be honest with you instead of trying to give you strategies that don't address the root problem.

I mean this with the utmost respect, what exactly is it that you bring to the table here? Seriously, and "I'm loyal" or "I respect women" does not count. Look at it this way, if you met a girl with the same physical traits and emotional baggage that you have, along with the low GPA (demonstrates someone that probably isn't applying themselves), what would you think? Would you want to sleep with that person? Would you want to be friends with that person, or would you see that person as bad news?

I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, "this stuff isn't my fault." That may be true, but if you want to fix this problem, then even if this stuff isn't your fault, you need to make it your responsibility. I'm certain that if you're dealing with mental health issues, that there are resources at your school that can help you with them. I'm also certain that if your GPA is suffering, then your focus at school sucks, and you need to work with your academic advisors to come up with a plan to fix it. Finally, I'm certain that you can fix all of this stuff if you try.

So, what should you do to get laid before your last semester of college?

Take responsibility for your issues. Fix your shit. Be a man. Ask for help from people who can help you rather than strangers on the internet. Once you fix you, I'm confident that you won't have so much trouble with the ladies.

There is no aphrodisiac in the world like a person who is confident in themselves and successful at navigating the challenges of their life without expecting others to fix them.

Yeah, learn how to smile. I’m serious—practice in the mirror every day and lean in on having photos taken of yourself (not selfies—stop taking selfies). You can’t get better if you are not seeing yourself like others do.

Shave your head. And by shave I mean tell your barber to do a “1” all over. It WILL BE WEIRD at first, but you have an advantage in that it looks like you are in pretty good shape. Keep that shit up.

Straighten your back and stick your titties out when you walk, I can feel your confidence deficit through the photos. Walk confidently and your attitude and demeanor will change. Ladies will notice (I’m serious, it works!)

When it comes time, talk to women like they are people with dreams, hopes, insecurities, and other feelings. Don’t lead with the “virgin til 20” business. Act like someone a woman would like to have coffee with.

Read “Mate” by Tucker Max (yes, that Tucker Max). It’s also coauthored by an evolutionary psychologist. There are incredible insights in the book. It helped me be more attractive to women and also helped me understand how to treat them better. Good luck!!!

Mate: Become the Man Women Want https://www.amazon.com/dp/0316375365/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_dZXKAb4PXBKPW

I'm gay (technically bi, but I mostly date men). Men come with their own bullshit. You don't have to pay as much attention to your figure, you don't have to worry that some guy is faking interest in a relationship just to get in your pants, etc. Men also like confidence in a partner. There are guides for women on developing more confidence to attract and keep men. It's a human trait to want individuals who exude confidence and those who are overly nice/giving risk being used as doormats by men individuals who prey on such people.

Women don't 'consistently test their man for any weakness in his confidence'. It sounds like you need to pick better women and assert yourself more. Asserting yourself doesn't mean that you have a be a jerk. It just means that you respect your self worth. If you don't value yourself, then why should your partner?

If I were you, I'd join toastmasters or some other organization primarily devoted to boosting self confidence. Start talking to women as friends and develop some female friendships because it sounds like you don't understand what most women are like or actually want in a relationship. Also, you are blaming women for your own problems. Women typically are more socially receptive than men and can pick up on that. Accept responsibility for yourself and work on improving yourself first.

>So we dont have alpha males, however the alpha in humanity is the one with the best social strategy?

In case it wasn't clear, that point should be: In socially intelligent species (like us) [which have alphas], the alphas are the ones with the best social strategies.

The alphas that I talked about were ones from socially intelligent, non-human species. Hierarchies do not exist in all human societies and, in our society, many of those who are leaders gain their strength through social manipulation rather than strength/being an asshole. Look at Obama.

>If you look at the seduction community these are the principles we use in order to become "alpha" and desired. We may not be the greatest looking, richest, big muscled meat heads, but we pride ourselves on reaching "alpha" status. (take a look at /r/seduction and I think you will find the content interesting if you can get passed some of the objectification of women.)

I laugh at much of /r/seduction (although there are good things on there) simply because they divide people up in ways that have no evolutionary basis behind it. The thing is, acting like a jerk to gain a mate only gains you certain kinds of mates. The 'douchebag' theory isn't just limited to men; there's also a book for women called Why Men Love Bitches that basically calls for women to act like 'alpha' males. Guess what? It works just as the male 'alpha' strategies work. Milder versions of these mate selection theories work for both sexes, not because humans inherently like jerks, but because the vast majority of people don't want someone needy, clingy, etc.

No offense to OP, and I'm sure many men (including myself) can identify with what he's saying, on some level. But according to a very helpful book I once (partially) read, "A man's attractiveness is inversely proportional to how needy he is. The less needy he is, the more attractive he will be to women on average. The needier he is, the less attractive he will be to women on average" (Mark Manson). The author goes on to explain:

>Neediness is when a man places a higher priority on others' perceptions of him than his perceptions of himself. A needy man's actions and words will therefore be primarily motivated by impressing and winning approval from others. Non-neediness is when a man places a higher priority on his own perception of himself than the perceptions of others. A non-needy man's actions and words will therefore be primarily motivated by embodying his own values and desires. (p. 11)

This post is dripping with neediness. I can certainly relate to men who feel this way, but I think men need to realize that this is a turn-off for women. Baring your true feelings and making yourself vulnerable can be attractive, but these kinds of feelings are unattractive.

Guys, if you want to be more attractive to women, here are my suggestions:

1. Get over your fear of approaching women. Some women are going to reject you. Accept that. Get over it. It's not the end of the world. Apparently, Albert Ellis went and asked 100 women out on a date to overcome his anxiety. All of them said "no." If I went out and asked 100 women on a date today, I'm sure the overwhelming majority would turn me down. I don't care that much. You shouldn't either.
   
2. Stop worrying so much about being ghosted. Don't overspend on your first date with a woman you hardly know. Build a relationship with her first. Buy her an ice-cream, maybe. If she ghosts you, so what? You spent $5.00 figuring out that it wasn't the right match. Try again with somebody else.
   
3. Chances are that you are in fact "capable enough" for at least 1 woman. You just have to find that 1 woman.
   
4. It's nice to be complimented on your looks, but focus on looking good in your own opinion. That's what's more important.
   
5. Get over your fear of being ghosted. Keep "scratching those tickets" until you find the winner. The fact that certain women don't want to be in a relationship with you doesn't say anything particularly important about you as a man. For every man, there are certain women who don't want to be in a relationship with them.
   
6. Obviously we want women to like us back, but it's okay if people don't like you.
   
   Women, feel free to correct me if you think I got this screwed up.

I've read most of your comments here and you sound exactly like the guys that get posted about in /r/niceguys. You seem entitled, shallow, and delusional, and you don't have much self awareness. The good news is that you're very young, and a lot of people didn't like who they were in high school and ended up 'blossoming' after high school, whether in college or work.

You need to think about this: if the majority of people, specifically girls, keep treating you and interacting with you a certain way repeatedly, there's got to be a reason for that, and it's most likely not them - it's you. YOU need to change. If you're overweight or too skinny, hit the gym. Not only will you look better, but you'll feel better about yourself, and you seem to need that because you don't sound too confident or sure of yourself.

You also need to be honest with yourself and truly analyze yourself and be vulnerable to identify what your personality traits are, which are good, and which need addressing. The end result of this is that you will be sure of yourself and be accepting of situations and not have a reason to make sad and pathetic posts like this (this is not an insult - but if you don't think this post is pathetic then it stresses my point about confidence and self awareness).

You need to get this book: Models: Attract Women Through Honesty. Even though the title of the book mentions attracting women, the main context is about what I mentioned above: being honest (with others and yourself) and being confident, and the process you need to go through to achieve that.

Lastly, you should save a copy of this post you made somewhere. Read it once every few months. When you finally read it and cringe really really hard after then you're starting to make some progress. Good luck.

I'm a woman but my advice is not that you should dump him. Some of your comments give me pause.

The fact that you're giving him blowjobs at approximately 2x the rate of sex, plus:

> he says I often "try too hard, or want it too much. " he says he feels like im forcing him into it. And never give him space.

> He also works 50-60 hour work weeks on a regular basis.

> He says the 3rd and most hurtful reason is because of my weight gain, which is true.

Any one of these things might cause a decent slow-down. All taken together they are plenty reason for bed-death. He's infuriating to me personally but I think you need to read the posts by /u/D_Hamm35. His reasons for losing libido sound very similar to what you are doing.

1 - get your weight under control. For YOU, not for him. But it will help your self esteem & confidence is sexy. You are at the height of your sexiness for your entire life. Stop ruining it with fat. You will be 32 in the blink of an eye and you will regret what you did to yourself.

2 - stop trying so hard. I'm currently reading Why Men Love Bitches, which was recommended on here recently. It is a very easy & straight-forward read. Go get it, and read it. You need to find some things to do that are just for you. Leave him home alone sometimes. Encourage him to take back up an old activity that he is interested in. Or just leave him home to figure it out. Say no to him when it is not convenient for you. This is NOT game-play. This is for your own self-esteem and worthiness. Stop being so accommodating. Everything you've written here indicates you're losing touch with yourself, and that is the opposite of sexy.

Re-establish your OWN life separate from him. Have things to do and people to see that are NOT about him. Don't ask if he is okay with it. Don't clear your schedule with him or get his permission before you make plans. The best possible situation is one where you are able to sometimes say to him, "oh, sorry! I can't! I have plans." This is verrrrry attractive behavior.

You might have other guys hitting on you, but the caliber of guy who will hit on a woman who has gained weight and currently has low self esteem (which you will be broadcasting with your behavior, whether you like it or not) is very low. Trust me on this. You deserve better than those guys who are aiming low. Get yourself put back together, period, whether your current relationship works out or not.

You are sending out a strong signal that says I'M NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU. Well, he believes you. Stop that!

All of these things will help your relationship, but more importantly, they will help YOU. You're giving yourself up for him, and your dead bedroom is evidence he doesn't like it.

You're right, there's a definite disparity. I think the problem is that you can cover giving a good blowjob pretty well in an article, and there are thousands of blog posts online already on the subject, not to mention the thousands of porn videos.

I haven't read it, but you could try Passionista: The Empowered Woman's Guide to Pleasuring a Man by the same author as She Comes First.

Hmmm.... Now that I look, there are actually quite a few titles on Amazon about giving blowjobs & handjobs, but reading some of the negative reviews isn't encouraging. The only one I can recommend from personal experience is a DVD called Blow Him Away!. I reviewed it here.

I think the biggest problem with giving recommendations is not knowing how experienced the reader is. If you're a virgin with little experience, a good guide has to be one that starts at a very basic level. If you're experienced and looking for expert-level tips, the same beginner's guide is going to be a waste of time.

Besides oral, I think the areas that most women need the most help with are cowgirl position, anal sex, and edging (making a guy last a long time at a really high level of arousal, so his orgasms are extra intense). Here are some things to help:

• Woman on Top - Sex in the "Cowgirl" Position
  
  
• The Ultimate Guide to Anal Sex for Women, 2nd Edition,
  by Tristan Taormino. It will help you enjoy it more and avoid painful beginner's mistakes.
  
  
• The FC-2 "female" condom - makes anal much easier, cleaner, simpler, and more enjoyable for both people.
  
  
• Giving a Lingam Massage - a seven-part series on edging a guy to perfection.
  
  The r/sex FAQ also has some good sections on oral sex and handjobs.
  
  And if you want to take things to a whole extra level, this is a complete guide for couples who want to learn tantric sex together: Extraordinary Passion: The Art and Science of Modern Tantric Sex.
  
  Hope this helps!

"The Game" was a great story, but not so much a "how to" guide. And I don't recall it recommending being condescending to anyone. The concept of a neg is to only use it on 8-10s in the first few minutes to show you aren't one of the un-washed masses trying to kiss their butt.
Acting like you are not interested in the girl will not result in you getting girls -- acting like you aren't interested in the pretty one while you charm her friend prevents her friend from cock-blocking you later though.

The follow-up book Rules of the Game is more of a how-to guide.

Neil is a great writer -- I wished he ended up with Brad P instead of Mystery. I suspect that would have made a much wilder story.

Bang by RooshV (http://www.reddit.com/user/rooshv) is my current read and a great starting resource.

BTW - Herbal (the guy who ended up with Mystery's girlfriend in the Game) is a sometimes Redditor. Small world.

This is the guy that stole Neil's GF after 'The Game' was over:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQb4ieoWp9w
He exhibits great cocky-funny in this vid.

Excuse me sir, I'm afraid falling down from stairs especially in a PRISON is unlikely to happen. And hitting others is totally not tolerable and whoever did it will face solitary confinement and being taken to Max prison afterwards. So you're pretty safe inside there wink

Speaking of guitars, I just remember my brother did learn a few guitar lessons before. Months later he quitted it, probably lost of interests already. So we have a spare guitar lying somewhere inside the store room waiting to be dusted. I tried to sell it online but to no avail. But I'm not really fond of it.

I wanted to learn violin last year. I decided to give out after enquiring few music centers. It's quite costly but it's still affordable for me, but the thing is they told me violin takes years to master it. I did know every instrument needs a long time to practise. They recommend me to learn guitar instead. Because violin is like piano, it's best to learn when you're still a little kid. As a big fan of classical musics and opera, this bad news hit me hard. That's only the reason why I wanted to learn violin though. But anyway, I still enjoy these musics as usual. But I wish I had the chance to watch them live. The countries which nearest to mine and helding the concert are either Japan or Australia. I prefer Australia, then I'll have the chance to watch it in Sydney Opera House. Wooooooooo. Never been to Australia. But not so fast yet, this short trip is gonna cost me about 1 year gross pocket money.(Maybe a 4D3N trip) Holy Mother Of God, that's a lot! In order to achieve my maybe biggest dream, I'm learning stocks right now. I planned a 10k portfolio which will be carried out several months later. Hopefully, it will bring me enough profit for the next year's trip. But I still have another problem- my parents. Well y'know my parents are kinda conservative, I doubt they will let their child travel along to another country.

There's no need for a CD if you don't have or miss it, google it and you will the HD version which I did. I know it's pirating, but... that's the only way for me.

Watch out we got a badass over here! Now I need to get a revolver inside my holster. Preparing for a future dueling. Hehe.

The sub will die out soon or maybe eventually few years later, once the community stops making arts. Comic is the one going to die out first, then maybe fanfics and arts. It's rare to find new comics now, but I'm glad I bookmarked alot of comics before. About comics, I know there's only 5 left which are still making and updating. Savage Company, PL PG, Spintherella's, Kulkum's, and Mead cooperating with Anon's. Not sure there's more or not, these are what I have in mind, at 1:30am. You're scared of those stuff, don't you? evil laughs

I don't have any love experience before. But I do have few ideas that might help you. First off, I want to know do you like or love her. It has different meaning. The previous one is maybe lust; the latter is like we said 'My Judy' someone you want to live with her forever. Or maybe you like the characteristics of her, and wanna be friends with that sweet little girl? I'll leave it that for you. For tips how to approach girls, I just have a nice book which will do the job flawlessly. This book might be a little costly. Oh and the author has a Youtube channel too, here. I bookmarked this book long before, maybe I'll buy it somewhere in future.

Anytime man, I'm already started my holiday.

Narcissism and Machiavellianism never got me anywhere worthwhile.

I've been reading this book recently, I found it helps with women of course but basic interactions with anyone as well.

It's a great blueprint, it's more about finding and expanding your true Alpha self than using arcane techniques to pass off as an Alpha.

Don't be only invested in you. Be driven, invested in yourself but make a bit of room for someone else. Don't brag but enjoy sharing yourself with someone who deserves it.

Be interested in them but don't let that influence you. Don't be arrogant, respect their opinions but don't ever change who you are for them.

I used to manipulate others, now I'd rather be upfront. "You're trying to get me to do x or y, for your sole benefit? I won't stand for that, goodbye."

Don't dwell and plot in the shadows, expose yourself boldly and stand your ground. You'll save time and effort. And you'll feel relieved and comforted that you've stayed true to yourself and your values.

We all got bad habbits to a certain degree, humans make mistakes.
In which way do they impede you in being happy & how can you work on improving them ( if you might decide to do so).

Going out of your way for atractive women.. hm, theres tons of stuff on the internet on that topic these days. yes, that's how life is.. life is unfair & she probbably thinks the same because if you knock her up & she gets bigg and round then that has more consequences for her then for you. Women make the choice about who they date with & thats natural. Men in general are uneasy with this. I think that because men are competitive, as a man i want to feel in control of my life ( captain of my fate) and yet when it comes to attraction / dating game then women have unfair advantages, just take a look at advertisements these days.

But.. at the same time Women are totally irrational when it comes to attraction. Atraction is an old brainfunction.. women fall for the strongest men ( also asshole types like gansters etc) dominant men. im not like that & you probabbly also not. But still, you can pursue woman with your character & by becomming an interesting in a way that is you like. Once you learn how to push the buttons of a women you can make her feel attraction for you as well (since atraction is irrational anyway). Wanting things to be different is normal though, that really pretty women also has her insecurities (all people do).

There's a whole truckload of books written about this topic, there are even seminars where you can go and get field workshops in which you go out with others and get guided into approaching and talking with women (in states and europe at least).

I found this one to be good:
http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358

Making a lot of the same mistakes at work, sounds to me that you are quite self critical - which (I think) is a good thing.
At least it makes me think that you care about your results and want to do a good job. If you can then try to be honest.
Your not making the mistakes on purpose & you want to improve, maybe your manager or coworkers (someone you trust)
can help you to produce your desired results. At least some type of help & a plan.

Best of luck !

No mentor

Never discussed dating or sex with my family. Did not do well with girls in high school and could not figure out why. Got even worse in 1st year uni when I realized I actually have no idea how to talk to or attract women.

Had many Chad friends who were hooking up with tonnes of girls and I was so jealous but was too proud to ask for how it's done. I'm certain they couldn't explain it all though.

Went to the internet and found "The Game" by Neil Strauss. Read the whole book in a night; could not believe what I read. Read it again the next night.

Found the Mystery Method and downloaded all the free content possible.

And to my surprise I started attracting girls, and found myself getting respect from my chad-esque friends who were now seeing me more on their level as far as dating goes. Truth be told all the PUA stuff I think did was give me confidence, the ability to recognize social cues of attraction and interest, and a general idea of what to say and when to say it.

When you learn martial arts, the instructor doesn't just tell you to go in and fight! He teaches you technique. Game is exactly the same, yes practice is great, but if you don't even know the basics, get your head in the books, get a coach, or however you wanna learn. Credit to Arash for the analogy.

Recommended reading

Women Ignition by 60YearsOfChallenge (intermediate-master) <--- This dude was my mentor and I am a beast for that, much love to ya 60!

Anything by RSD/Real Social Dynamics ( Beginner-Master)

Mystery Method (Beginner)

The Game (SUPER beginner)

The Ultimate Guide to Text and Phone Game By Nick Savoy/Braddock (Looks cheesy but it really is a great book)

Recommended websites

mASF (general advice beginner-master)

Casanovacrew (L.A/Vegas lairs/meetings)

RSD (Great coaches/solid game beginner-master)

Recommended Puas to follow
Manwhore (sexual escalation/love this bro/he's not a douche, comes off that way.... nice guy)

Psych/Dj Fuji (VERY structured game)

Mystery/Neil Strauss/Matador (Mystery Method, the torch carriers of game)

Tyler Durden/Jeffy/Brad P (RSD, some of the biggest names, very good)

Bravo (online game/really great guy/highly recommend him)

Arash ( This dudes inner game is on point. I have one of his speeches saved, I'll upload if you want it Seddit) <--- Really nice dude, nothing like I thought he was gonna be

Hypnotica (Inner game master, talked to this dude once, I felt and still feel amazing)

Get to reading!
Edit:Updated shit.

I'm going to expand on this comment because I've read the book and I think the gender ratio is HUGELY important when discussing this topic. Here's a link to it.

> According to 2012 population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau's American Community Survey, there are 5.5 college-educated women in the U.S, between the ages of 22 and 29 versus 4.1 million such men. In other words, the dating pool for college graduates in their twenties really does have 33 percent more women than men - or four women for every three men. Among college grads age 30 to 39, there are 7.4 million women versus 6.0 million men, which is five women for every four men. These lopsided gender ratios may add up to sexual nirvana for heterosexual men, but for heterosexual women - especially those who put a high priority on getting married and having children in wedlock - they represent a demographic time bomb.

The book goes into more detail with almost an entire chapter on Manhattan itself, as the much larger gay and lesbian population in NYC skews the ratio even more than the national average.

> Gates's analysis helps explain why the Manhattan dating market feels so much tougher on heterosexual women than the raw population count implies. If 11 percent of the under-40 male population is gay and 1.5 percent of the under-40 female population is lesbian, that means Manhattan's man deficit among heterosexual, marriage-age, college grads is not smaller than the national average, but larger.

> Much larger.

> Subtract the estimated gay and lesbian population from Manhattan's total population count, and you wind up with a hetero dating pool with 39 percent more college-educated women than men age 22 to 29 - not 26 percent more. For the youngest college grads, the math is even gloomier ... For college grads age 22 to 29, removing the gay and lesbian population from the numbers pushes the over supply of women relative to men up from 39 percent to 54 percent - the equivalent of three women for every two men. And even these adjusted numbers may be too low, as gay men are more likely to be college educated than straight men, according to Gates.

Having such a ratio also changes the behavior of men in the city, making them less likely to settle down. There were studies on fish where they introduced more females than males to a population, and conversely more males than females. You can probably guess the results.

> Consider the behavior of pond cichlids, a species of fish that is typically momogamous during mating season. When zoologiest experimented with altering sex ratios in a controlled population of cichlids, even small manipulations had profound impacts on the male cichlids' likelihood of staying committed to their female mates.
>
> Increasing the ratio of male cichlids to females from 6:6 to 7:5 cut the male desertion rate in half - from 22 percent to 11 percent. It also rendered females choosier about males and made the successful male suitors more protective of their families. The end result was a kind of underwater patriarchy - one in which male cichlids fought each other for access to mates, jealously guarded their females after mating, and then, after the fry were born, made greater investments in parenting (be it through direct parenting effort or via the providing of resources such as food or protection)
>
> Some of these behavior patterns are surely quite familiar to anyone who has spent time in nightclubs, dive bars, or other spots where single men and women routinely socialize. Like the male cichlids, men get reflexively more protective of "their" women when more men enter the physical space.
>
> A more surprising finding from the animal studies involved what happened when sex ratios were manipulated to make the females more plentiful. Fro the cichlids, a decrease in male-to-female sex ratios from 6:6 to 5:7 yielded a hugely disproportionate behavioral response. Male desertion rates more than doubled - from 22 percent to 51 percent. In other words, a seemingly small shift in the female share of the cichlid population transformed the prevailing mating culture from one of monogamy to one of polygyny, which is males mating with multiple females but females mating with only one male. "Males increasingly deserted their mates and the young in their care as the opportunity to re-mate increased in their environment," wrote Mart Gross, a University of Toronto zoology professor, in an article published in 2005.
>
> Presumably male cichlids do no act this way out of piscine malice or misogyny. They do it because it is biologically rational. A goal for males of all species is to pass along their genes to the next generation. When sex ratios are balanced or are lopsided in favor of more males, males have a strong genetic incentive to stick with their original mates and to actively participate in the care and protection of young. When females are more abundant, however, the mating game shifts in favor of the male having multiple broods. Even if one or more broods are abandoned by the male and left vulnerable to predators, the male cichlid is still likely to produce more offspring overall. In such an environment, male reproductive strategies tend to emphasize mating effort at the expense of parenting effort, simply because the value of monogamy declines as the ratio of males to females declines. In nature, when females are plentiful, natural selection favors those males that mate with more than one female.

I could cite the book all day but seriously, go read it. There are other cities that don't have as much of a gender disparity and where you'll have a statistically better chance of finding a boyfriend (like the bay area for example). I mean who knows, maybe you'll get lucky here?

...maybe.

It's too much of a mess to even bother dealing with.

I'll repost a recent comment of mine:

---

RP Demagogue A

>The Alpha Traits are those associated with classic “manly man” strengths. Power, dominance, physical ability, bravery, wealth, cool and confidence. Oh and good genes. These are the things that attract women and turn them on sexually. The Alpha Traits are linked to the dopamine response in women.

>The Beta Traits are those associated with the strengths of being a nice guy / “family man”. Kindness, being a good listener, the ability to help with the children, dependability, thoughtfulness, compassion and patience. These all create a sense of comfort and safety for the woman, and relax her because she feels that if she became pregnant, the Beta Trait male isn’t going to abandon her and the baby. [http://marriedmansexlife.com/take-the-red-pill/alpha-and-beta-male-traits/]


TRP Sub

>Alpha – Socially dominant. Somebody who displays high value, or traits that are sexually attractive to women. Alpha can refer to a man who exhibits alpha behaviors (more alpha tendencies than beta), but usually used to describe individual behaviors themselves.

>Beta – Traits of provision: either providing resources or validation to others, women (and perhaps men). Beta traits display low value to women if they are are put on too strong or too early in meeting- giving without equity. Beta can be used to describe individual behaviors, as well as people who have an overwhelming amount of beta properties (opposed to alpha).

These are not the same (in particular, see "Beta" definition), unless you want to perform mental gymnastics.

For shits and giggles, let's see what someone said about Rollo / Rational Male aka

RP Demagogue B's definition of Alpha (Amazon book review):

https://www.amazon.com/Rational-Male-Rollo-Tomassi/product-reviews/1492777862/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar

>"The author's most relied-upon term, "alpha", is not given any definition at all through the first twenty percent of the book, until he gets to a chapter in which he promises to address the definition of "alpha", but in which no such definition appears. (He spends the chapter -- and three more following it! -- talking about how hard the term is to define, without defining it.) "


--

Instead, focus on the what is the cornerstone issue of PUA and TRP: attraction.

1. Attractive traits/behaviors
   
   
2. Unattractive traits/behaviors
   
   And for the special retards who can't figure it out, you can make sub-list of "attractive traits for casual sex."

Never directly address an issue with a woman like that. You can’t just straight up ask her why she wasn’t down. Did you think she’d tell you why so that it could then fix whatever the problem was? Women don’t function like that. Men like to try solving these problems as if they were logical puzzles, but genuine sexual desire can’t be negotiated logically like that. All you accomplished was coming off like a thirsty beta and torpedoing your chances.

The Desire Dynamic

The kissing during the movie probably failed to escalate to sex because you tried to jump on it too soon. If you’re watching a movie then finish the movie with her. If you stop 20 minutes in then she’s going to feel like sex is more of a priority to you than spending quality time with her.

Make Brain: Sex > Quality Time

Female Brian: Quality Time > Sex

Also, if the movie itself was lame then she could have been in a weird mood due just to that. Women are very sensitive to their moods. Read my post here about how to get a movie lay. It doesn’t map exactly to your situation, but it’ll give you some ideas:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/9m9k7f/comment/e7d1mmv

Another thing to remember is that muscularity is a disproportionately huge attraction factor for very young women. They have no conception at all about what qualities make for a good long term partner. They give zero shits about your financial situation or your prospects for future success. They give zero shits about if you have your life together or if you’re going to be a burn out alcoholic. They just want the stereotypically hot muscular guy they see in media.

This changes in their mid 20’s after they’ve had a few failed relationships. At the moment though, just focus on getting totally jacked. If you’re young and you’re dealing with very young girls (23 or younger) then all you need to do is get your bench press weight up to 200lb and wear a skin tight shirt to show off your pecs. That’ll get you laid, guaranteed. You’ll want to be dating 23 year olds (or younger) even into your 30’s, so I can’t stress enough how important lifting is.

Just flat out ignore her mean texts. She’s attention whoring, trying to create drama, and trying to get you to get emotional like a beta. If you give her any attention at all she wins. Just go blackout silent.

Lift and game other girls.

Also, if you haven already read the entirety of The Rational Male blog, then I highly recommend the book versions. It’s the same posts, but arranged in a saner format, and with some useful front matter:

Volume 1

Volume 2

Volume 3

https://www.amazon.com/Game-Penetrating-Secret-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738

I'm sure you can find a pdf copy online.

Great read. I honestly don't think I would be where I am today without that book. Opened my damn eyes. Not just with women but my whole life. It's about becoming a better (but true) version of yourself. Which ultimately makes you more interesting, more confident (which can help with getting jobs, women, etc.) and happier.

Just one more quick thing. It's so funny when you start doing this stuff well. You'll find yourself in some of the exact situations in the book. This one time i was at a bar when I was like 21 or 22. Group of 5 girls. I was chatting them up damn good! (Was a few months into doing this at this point). Was talking them up so good a wicked alpha male had to come in and see who was talking to all the ladies. Needless to say he out alpha maled me lol but man it was a cool experience because you realize nearly every situation is the same, it's just how you handle it. Handle it well and reap the rewards (with anything not just women).

Enjoy.

she's just new, so there is more to explore, but you should also understand that open relationships require that you come to terms with the fact that relationships can change and end, so if you are going to keep going with an open relationship, then you shouldn't rely on your husband for your own personal happiness or satisfaction. If your husband enjoys sex with the other girl more than he is enjoying sex with you, then you should feel good that he got to have sex with her, you should be glad that he got to experience that joy and happiness and you should encourage him to have more sex with her. If that doesn't work for you, then have a conversation with him about how he feels about have a closed relationship instead, but he might not be very happy about that idea.

Here are some more thoughts on the whole thing: The Truth: An Uncomfortable Book About Relationships

Buy him this as a gift: http://www.amazon.com/The-Rational-Male-Rollo-Tomassi/dp/1492777862/ it's a book called "The Rational Male" by /u/rollo-tomassi who has a blog over at http://therationalmale.com/

Also get him listening to this podcast called "The Beige Phillip Show" over at http://beigephillip.com/, there's a lot of comedy and joking around on the show which will help him ease into the ideas, it lacks that "alpha bro" approach but still distils the same kind of wisdom that we discuss.

How to introduce him to these things? Say you "found it on the internet", started reading things and listening to that podcast and you thought he'd find it interesting. These are probably the "softest" ways to introduce someone to TRP, if he's still not receptive I'd be seriously questioning his gender identity. Being a man and being completely unreceptive to men/maleness whilst supposedly being straight is neither normal nor healthy, hopefully it doesn't come to that. A lot of men here are the products of single mothers too, and so they have to work extra hard to cultivate their masculinity, but that doesn't cause them to outright reject it, maybe it affected him more profoundly or perhaps he has other issues, I don't know him so really at this point I'm just speculating.

Best of luck to you and your boyfriend and kudos you haven't just dumped him for another guy but are actually trying to help the guy improve. I'm not sure that's entirely for unselfish reasons (maybe he's rich or you're not particularly flush with better options than him - that's not my business) but whether you guys last or not, giving him access to this information will help him endlessly for the rest of his life, so kudos for that, your intentions will serve him well.

The entire purpose of your best man speech is to get you laid. Wedding Crashers was a mediocre movie, but the basic premise was spot-on: nothing kicks a woman's sex drive into higher gear than a public display of commitment. The evolutionary purpose of selecting a best man is to allow one to pick an unrelated set of genes which you approve of to promote for intermingling with genes similar to yours (your family's). Basically, your friend has put the spotlight on one man in a crowd of horny women.

So here's how you do it: pick up The Game and Rules of the Game before writing your speech. Practice beforehand. Your goal is to exude confidence. The wedding traditions will practically force you to interact with women: do so with gusto, but make a point of completely ignoring the girl you want to hook up with (make it obvious). Then go do your speech. You want to subtly insult the happy couple but do so in a way that's joking so it's not offensive. This will make you come across as bold and likable. Then go for the gusto and request that they give a round of applause for the couple (which, to the subconscious, is about the same as a round of applause for you). While the focus of the room is still centered on you, but there's a little confusion as they transition to the next event, make a beeline to your target woman. You'll be at the height of your social attractiveness and she won't be able to resist you.

I'm currently in Monk Mode myself. I'm probably only going for at most a 3mo. term at this (Started Dec. 1st). It sounds like you have a good plan. I'm focusing on the following things:

• Meditating: the best way to re-program your brain IMO ("Wherever you go there you are")
  
• Teaching myself Jazz piano
  
• Diet (Here's my diet)
  
• Fitness (Here's my fitness bible)
  
• Career Development (This)
  
• Productivity & Time Management (too many books to mention, OP PM me if you want this list)
  
• Not watching Porn & Masturbating less frequently (Highly recommended /r/NoFap)
  
• No Alcohol
  
  For learning to cook I highly recommend this book.
  
  For addressing approach anxiety I recommend The Rules of the Game.
  
  This is an excellent book on habit change. (OP this is how you start to break down those "masturbatory" habits)
  
  Also, Monk Mode is basically an exercise in stoicism. This book is awesome.
  
  
  Since you'll have plenty of time to read here are some other Books I recommend:
  "No More Mr. Nice Guy"
  "Models: Attracting Women Through Honesty"
  "The Talent Code"
  "Man's Search for Meaning"
  "Flow"
  
  Final thoughts OP. 6 months is definitely a worthy goal however studies show that 90 days is usually what it takes to create new habits and routines. You have to be consistent though. Just food for thought.
  
  
  (Edit: I suck at formatting)
  
  
  
  
  

Jesus loves you. Jesus cares. God has a plan for your life. And you know He will always be there.

I'm sorry for the pain and hardship that you've gone through. The authorities in your life were not fulfilling their role. They did not help you to protect your heart. But there is healing through Jesus Christ. I know because I've experienced that healing myself.

You said that you cannot imagine your life without this person. Let me offer you some counsel. In Proverbs 29:18, the Bible says "Where there is no vision, the people perish." I want to help you create a vision for your life that is wholly devoted to Christ.

If you're like most people, you've spent over a decade preparing for higher education such as college or a career. Well, we go to college for four years and then most don't work in the field they studied in. But how much have you studied about God's plan for marriages and families? If you're like most people, probably very little. I know I had no idea what a good marriage was supposed to look like. I knew my mom had been divorced three times and I knew I didn't want that, but I had never seen or heard of another way!

But there is another way, there is God's way. God has standards that should become your standards when seeking a relationship. The Bible says we are not to be unequally yoked with non-believers. This means that first and foremost the man you marry must be a Christian that has been washed in the blood.

The Bible says that those who do not provide for their household are worse than unbelievers. This means that the man you marry must be committed to working hard to provide for his family.

The Bible says that husbands are supposed to wash their wives in the Word of God as to present them blameless even as Jesus cleansed His bride, the church, from all sin so as to present them blameless. This means that the man you marry must be committed to leading his family spiritually. He must be committed to praying with you, for you. He must be committed to reading the Bible with you and to edifying you and to helping you grow in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

When you renew your mind with this vision, I dare say that you will not even be able to imagine your life with your former non-Christian partner.

A couple of incredible books to read:

https://www.amazon.com/What-He-Must-Be-Daughter/dp/1581349300

https://www.amazon.com/When-Writes-Your-Story-Expanded/dp/1601421656

If you think $20 is too much to invest in your future, I'm more than happy to buy these books for you as long as you commit to reading them. I believe wholeheartedly that they will provide you with a vision that shows you the incredible Biblical plan God has created for marriage.

>Great post. I agree with number 7, it is so true.

This one is harder, but in my opinion it's more honest. About a quarter of girls dump me or flat out refuse when I mention it. About a quarter are gung-ho. About half are ambivalent. I don't think it's wise to bring it up unless she's a pretty cold lead, in which case a dirty Hail Mary is a viable option, or unless you've already been with her for a while and she's deeply into you and thus you're more likely to have hand.

Neil Strauss's Game sequel, The Truth has him exploring non-monogamy:

>I look up and see a yoga stud from Kamala's pod.

>"Have you rounded up any more girls?" the orbiter asks him.

>Kamala Devi and Shamal Helena said polyamory was about loving relationships, not casual sex. But these guys seem more like next-level pickup artists, coming to these conferences with the intention of sucking any available women into their powerful reality.

"These guys seem more like next-level pickup artists:" let that sink in.

I personally have never seen attractive polyamorous people. But I have seen lots of attractive open relationship people, and when the guy is driving it can be very powerful. Some of the girls in that scene are more psycho than average. The people deepest in, I stay away from. But some of them are fantastic. Remember that there is no escape from frame or SMV. If the former is strong and the latter is high it can be next-level game.

I've not written comprehensively about open relationships and game but I did talk about them in Women want to follow your lead: a story about a woman presenting two ways.

Here's my cis-hetero-male perspective:

Resources

The previously-recommended Models by Mark Manson is fantastic.

I can also recommend Mate: Become the Man Women Want by Tucker Max and Geoffrey Miller. It does a great job applying evolutionary psychology to real-world dating concepts. I imagine SSC readers would enjoy it.

For someone seeking step-by-step, practical advice (in my case, I was practically autistic when it came to the actual ), I recommend Bang by Roosh.

Dating as a Market

I'm surprised how few people understand that dating (the sexual marketplace) is a fairly efficient market.

Each person has their own sexual market value (for men: Looks, Money, Status). To get more and better quality offerings in the market, there are only two options: increase your sexual market value, or go to a different market where you're valued more highly (example: older white men going to the Philippines).

I suspect that the source of frustration for many men is simply not knowing their own value within their city's market.

Interestingly, the explosion in popularity among online dating is making city dating markets much more efficient. Whereas before there was massive information asymmetry (people tended to date and have casual sex within their social circles, or the nearest bar), now, anyone can paste a profile online and immediately determine their value (i.e. number of matches) in the marketplace.

Here's an excerpt from one of my favorite books The Manual by W Anton:

> After your bold approach and some small talk that includes flirting, you should restate your intentions while keeping in mind her desires; you say what you want while telling her what she wants to hear. What do you want? Her phone number. Why do you want it? Because you want to see her again. Why do you want to do that? You know this best, but it is probably because she is very attractive and you enjoyed talking to her. Therefore, that is what you should tell her while at the same time handing her your cell phone or a piece of paper and a pen — still smiling, full of confidence while maintaining eye contact, and assuming that she will give you her number the same way you always assume positive outcomes for your every advance.

> It is not complicated. You are not asking for a woman’s number, you are telling her to give it to you by thinking aloud, and you do it after effectively convincing her that she would not mind meeting you again by the way you handle yourself and her.

> If you did not bring your phone, tell her to write her number down. And if you did not bring your own pen, she probably has a makeup pen or a lipstick in her purse that she can write with. Otherwise, ask someone in the vicinity without hesitation.

Honestly, this seems like the most natural way and it's worked well for me.

Your not asking to much at all. If what you wrote was true you are a high value male.

Guess what! Good news for you! In 2018 with dating apps like tinder and bumble, pussy is worthless, it's everywhere for free.

You know what has value? You know what ALL woman are after? The commitment of a high value male like yourself. A commitment from you is the Stanley Cup of womanhood.

You have all the power and all the value here, you just can't see it yet.

Men are the gatekeepers of commitment, woman are the gatekeepers of sex. Sex is worthless now.

You should read this book, it will explain everything about your wife. It will change your life.

https://www.amazon.ca/Rational-Male-Rollo-Tomassi/dp/1492777862

The person who needs the other the least in the relationship has all the power.

Your so close, look your doing everything the world is telling you to do. You treat her like a queen, yet your life sounds like it's getting worse the more you try and accommodate her. The matrix is glitched already.

Good luck man.

If the book helps you, play it forward like me.

I have a friend who was in your situation. He's not what one would consider classically attractive. He felt ugly and he carried himself in that manner. He dated only one girl in his 20s. One six month relationship and that's it. He attributed this to his looks.

On his 30th birthday he bought himself a book called The Game about the techniques of successful pick up artists. I know it sounds bad and you might not agree with everything they say, but I'll tell you this - within a year of reading this book, my friend was no longer the same person.
What the book taught him was the power of confidence and how confidence in the eyes of a woman will often supersede looks when it comes to attraction. With his added confidence he began to dress better and take care of himself.
Whereas before he was meek and invisible in social settings, today he stands out in a crowd and has absolutely no problem dating women.

I know I sound like I'm a book salesman but after seeing what happened to my friend who was in your situation, I just wanted to recommend it.

And even if you don't get the book, I hope you take away from this that confidence is everything.

Lots of great advice here, when you've had time to find yourself, this will find the woman of your dreams. I was divorced at 50, 7 years of terrible dating and then another divorced friend gave me this link, told me he had read the book and it changed his life. Changed mine too, I went from pointless dating to my gf in about 6 months and had many great dating experiences along the way


https://www.scribd.com/doc/33421576/How-To-Be-A-3-Man

Corey Wayne

How to Be a 3% Man, Winning the Heart of the Woman of Your Dreams

This book had helped me and at least 2 other men - it isn't your typical pick up a woman book

This is a free link to the book uploaded by the author - he also had many YT videos, an email newsletter and website - all free.
He has pay services, read the book, you won't need to pay for anything. Truely changed my dating life.


If you want to purchase

How to Be a 3% Man, Winning the Heart of the Woman of Your Dreams https://smile.amazon.com/dp/1411673360/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_y97ACb14PESWM

Well first off I think the self awareness you have is amazing, that’s a really good trait to have.

Like the other commenter, I think 17 is a bit too young to worry about things like this. You have a VERY long life ahead of you. You should focus on school and your future as a main priority.

However, I agree that people who say “you’ll find a girlfriend naturally” are not telling the truth, or have been lucky.

I recommend looking at r/seduction. I think that finding a girl is about action, you do have to try, they just don’t come naturally. r/seduction is all about picking up women, and asking girls out, which is what every guy needs to do to get a relationship. I also heavily suggest reading Models by Mark Manson. It’s a beautiful book on being confident and getting into a relationship.

The main point is that if you want a girl you have to

1. Improve yourself. Gym, clothes, haircut
   
2. Ask girls out. Ask out every cute girl you see. Statistically, one girl is bound to say yes.
   
   If you have any questions, you should begin reading the book. Good luck 👍
   
   

> He used to make me feel amazing. I loved every moment we spent together.

> He's like a different person...

My ex was like this and I could write a book on it, but here are some books other people have written that have helped me:

• Narcissistic Lovers
  
• Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay
  
• Disarming The Narcissist
  
• Getting Past Your Breakup (if this should ever happen, Zeus forbid)
  
  Since you were raised by an N, then a lot of the codependency books like "Codependency No More" and "Women Who Love Too Much" might be helpful too. It seems like you're working hard to get him all this help, but all you can really do is help yourself. If he's highly N, you'll probably have a hard time with him going to therapy and sticking with it and everything else but I'm not sure that's really the best place for you to focus. Only he can choose to get help and stick with it.
  
  I also made a post with a list of N traits from the book Disarming The Narcissist. My ex (and mother of course) possessed high degrees of all thirteen traits. Dealing with my ex was hell on Earth and I'm still recovering two years later, so if I don't seem very optimistic that's why. We always seem to want to see the best in people, and it's VERY hard to reconcile that a person who can be so sweet, loving, kind, caring, etc. can also be a liar, cheater and an overall shitty person. Ns can really weave a "reality distortion field" and so can we, because it's SO painful to see the truth sometimes. It's an up and down roller coaster ride that is VERY addicting.
  
  The person you fell in love with may have only been one aspect of his total personality. My old therapist used to tell me to look at the big picture. I would "split" my ex so that I would PINE after the sweet, loving person she could be, and ignore the terror she could also be. Everyone is capable of EVERYTHING, especially people who claim they're "not like that." Actions are meaningful, not words. My ex's actions painted a much different picture than her words.
  
  Anyway, good luck with everything.

Oh man, also thanks for your reply.

Looks like our stories are remarkably similar - I also wasn't able to get off half the time, her self esteem was tanking, we started having issues, arguing about stupid stuff. Also had similar problems with keeping interest in girls - the chase is all cool and exciting, then you do the right things, you close, the girl starts getting attached and I freak out since I lose interest.

I thought ton of it has been due to my interest in PUA after I was introduced to it by a buddy of mine (and he had similar loss-of-interest issues) but I stopped being a player and started being more honest/genuine, but my interest in girls went down very quickly after closing with them.

So I adapted a different approach, I basically have "receptive girls" all over the world, we're on friendly terms and whenever I'm in town or they are in town, we'd sleep together. That way I didn't need to keep commitment and relationship and would still have sex fairly frequently.

Now that I'm on my 40th day and feeling the reboot a bit, I feel more in control of myself and am less afraid of commitment. I want to get to know a cool girl and spend time with her and if things don't work, so what, there are many cool girls out there.

I recently read Mark Manson's Models (http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358), it was a fairly important book for me to read and help me on my NoFap quest.

Likewise good luck!

Identify things about yourself that you would like to improve.

For example, are you happy with the way you look? Change what you can through exercise and healthy eating. Not sure if you exercise much, but, if not, you would be surprised how much better you feel after a good run, bike, weight room session. Endorphins, man!

It's also more than just being happy about how you look.

Identify aspects of your personality that you would like to improve. Awkward talking to girls? There are tons of books to help with that. The Game by Neil Strauss helped my when I was your age. Don't be put off by it's douchebaggy appearance.

Maybe if you gave some specific examples of what exactly you want to improve.

I strongly recommend Models: Attract Women Through Honesty. I listened to the audio book via audible and it really helped me understand why I personally had issues with women and was in a similar position. A lot of similar books take a more pickup artist side of meeting and attracting women, but Mark does an excellent job explaining why that doesn’t work in the long run. He goes through what works for him, and breaks down a lot of the issues men face and how deal with it from the ground up rather than just bandaid solutions. It’s a great starting point in understanding and improving yourself. You have to do some leg work in figuring and applying this stuff but I definitely recommend.

I can go into my experience if anyone is interested, though the real meat and potatoes are in the book, and it’s a must read/listen to for men who struggle with attracting women at any stage of the relationship or courtships.

http://www.amazon.com/Winning-Heart-Woman-Your-Dreams/dp/1411673360/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412046904&sr=8-1&keywords=coach+corey+wayne

The book is a little fluffy in parts, but has really solid advice.

"The conversations all hit a wall or the girl won't even message me even though she hit like on my profile and we matched."

What kind of messages are you sending? Can you give me an example? I've had that happen where you get liked but then they don't respond. There could be any number of reasons, while the desire for improvement is good most times you won't have any idea. Just let it go and don't take it personally.

No date and no sex, no big deal, don't let society try to make you think you are less of a man because of that. Dating is a skill which takes time to develop. What I'd suggest is always finding ways to be happy with yourself without anyone else. Walk into every interaction with the attitude of just trying to have fun, be positive, and don't have any concern for the outcome. Try different approaches, never take rejection personally, and hone your skills. Most importantly, don't exhibit clingy, needy behaviors. I know how loneliness goes, but be careful because if she senses neediness it will most likely drive her away.

> But then they'll always be considering monkeybranching/cheating with alphas if they get the opportunity because they're just settling for the beta.

Plenty of married alpha's. Rollo Tomassi, the father of TRP, is married.

> how the actual fuck do you as a male who wants LTRs and doesn't want to have casual sex "succeed" and not end up a beta bux?

By being alpha entering into a relationship.

>It’s not a numbers game, it’s a non-exclusivity game. The goal isn’t racking up as many women as humanly possible in order to sift through the throng and find that one little golden flower. In fact that’s the key to disaster. There is no Quality Woman, that’s an idealization. Some are better than others of course, but you don’t find the perfect woman, you make the perfect woman. There is no needle in the haystack – that is Scarcity / ONEitis thinking – the point is to mold yourself and any woman who you do exclusively end up with into your own frame. This is a process that should come before you commit to exclusivity, not after. The world is filled with guys forever trying to catch up, control the frame and be the Man they should’ve been long before they entered an LTR. They spend the better part of their LTRs/Marriages trying to prove that they deserve their GF’s / Wife’s respect when they’d have done better in letting her come to that conclusion well before the commitment through a healthy dose of competition anxiety. - Rollo Tomassi

The Rationale Male

>dark triad traits are not long term healthy relationship traits, they're just traits for fucking sluts. Well I don't want that, I want a relationship down the line with a non-slut,

"Dark Triad" traits (or just alpha traits) are attractive to all women, not just sluts. The difference is, sluts lack self-control and self-respect, so they get used by tons of guys and make irrational choices. The lack of self-control is what makes sluts bad investments. Even when they have a good deal (lesser-alpha), they lack the self-control to resist a higher alpha, throwing away their relationships to chase their hypergamy.

You will never be the most alpha. There will always be someone who's better breeding stock than you. You just have to be alpha enough. As you grow old, you'll likely sacrifice your freedom and independence for family and legacy. You won't be as alpha as you once were, or as other 20 somethings are, but you'll have different priorities, and ideally a women who's wise enough to know she's got good deal.

This is the golden question, right?

*

Fake it 'til you make it yields false confidence. Although you'll still be exhibiting the traits of a confident male, you're true self will eventually show itself. It's not sustainable, and at times demeaning towards women.

Now, true confidence, as you seem to hint at here comes from being less invested in others as you are in your perception of yourself** (taken from Mark Manson's book Models - you should absolutely positively read this book). To reach this state, you obviously need to invest in yourself. Investing in yourself means that you have the following nailed down in your life:

1. You have created an attractive and enriching lifestyle;
   
2. You have overcame your fears and anxieties around women;
   
3. You have mastered the honest expression of your emotions and can communicate fluidly with others (especially women).
   
   Working on these 3 items will improve your overall confidence and it will ooze through literally every action you exhibit in your life.
   
   **
   
   Obviously, tackling these 3 items is quite complex; I highly recommend you check out Mark's book to learn the specifics on how to do each of them. Essentially, to be confident you have to feel* confident: you can only feel that way if you're actually living a great life, and are comfortable in your capacity to handle social situations.

Oh well hell if you're talking high school then get cracking my young compatriot. Everyone in that school is going through the same anxiety that comes from the teen years. Some hide it better, aesthetics play a big role in the vain and "popular" but don't sweat such small bull shit. It's petty in the grand scheme. College is a completely different monster too. Focus more on yourself and be your own person rather than how to get this person to like you or whatever. Confidence will follow from owning yourself, your strengths, and your weaknesses.

And here's the book: The Game

And I can't really recommend you follow through but Craigslist is the bottom of the barrel last resort if you really can't manage to find any peers at school or on a dating website. Not sure if dating sites take under 18 anyway. But exercise EXTREME caution with Craigslist.

Finally, sex is fantastic but really you should keep to seeking out a worthwhile relationship. Even if it falls apart in a few months or makes it a few years and still crumbles, the experience is vital.

I wouldn't presume to know or tell you your motivations but whatever you do, don't ever do something because you think someone else will love you for it. They either won't or it will be something short of real love. Be yourself, love yourself, others WILL follow. Just be patient.

>These two things are related. Go and lift even if you have to drop weight to do so... just get out and lift something.

Roger. Did just so an hour ago. Feel much better already.

> You had a bad couple of weeks. So what? Just get back to it. Look at the bright side - you're probably still 10x better than before finding MRP.

Thanks. Something something forest for the trees. Right on brother.

> Yeah it takes work to be the Captain especially in your situation with your wife's mental issues. Just keep at it.

Pretty sure a Captain doesn't cut it with this woman and her mental issues. She requires a Fleet Admiral. Only makes me stronger.

> Wow, our lives go in a parallel here regarding no PIV for weeks.

How are you dealing with it both physically and mentally, if you don't mind me asking? Might help me.

> Outside of Game and Day Game, what other are good books for this?

I have heard good things about Models by Mark Manson. It's on my audible list to listen to. I like the idea of honesty in this book.

I think Neil Strauss (the guy who wrote The Game, known as Style in PUA circles) got it right:

>The dating dichotomy isn’t between nice guys and mean guys. It’s between weak guys and strong guys. Women are drawn to men who demonstrate strength – the ability to make them feel safe. If you’re a nice guy, you can still be nice. But you must also be strong.

>However, make sure you know what nice means. Most guys who define themselves as "too nice" only behave nicely because they want everybody to like them and don't want anyone to think badly of them. So, if this is you, get off your nice high horse. Don't mistake being weak and fearful for being nice.

I'll be honest because I trust that's what you want.

Tinder is not for you.

Tinder is an Open Bar for girls. Your profile is the equivalent of a dixie cup of lukewarm water left on the floor.

You look like you have never done a push up in your life. You are wearing a Majoras Mask sweatshirt. The picture with the 'goofy' macro made me physically cringe. Do you smile ever? Where are pictures of you with friends doing fun things?

All Tinder will do is batter your self confidence when after a month you've swiped right 1000 times and matched only bots or fat chicks. You are far better off deleting Tinder and building an interesting life. You are only 20. And male. You should be in no rush.

[Buy this book. Do everything in it. Don't expect results in 6 months or even a year. Follow what this book tells you and when you're 25 you will be turning chicks away. You need to be fit, fashionable, and above all interesting. Your current pictures indicate the opposite.] (https://www.amazon.com/Mate-Become-Man-Women-Want/dp/0316375365)

You are 5'6 and that will be a deal breaker for a lot of girls. Fuck them. I hope to god your major is STEM so that you're making 6 figures 3 years after you graduate.

TLDR - Delete Tinder. Focus on gradual, incremental, and above all sustainable self improvement over the next few years.

It does sound like you and your husband may be sexually incompatible, but possibly you're just both just inexperienced and unmotivated to develop the skills to be great lovers to each other. There are lots of books and tutorials that you could both use to make your sex life really mind-blowing and passionate, but you'd both need to be willing to work on it. It (probably) won't get better if you are the only one who's willing.

If you want to go that route, She Comes First (for him) and Passionista (for you) are two books that get good reviews.

If you communicate your concerns, but your husband really isn't on board with working on this, you still might be able to make some progress by being more dominant in bed. You've been very vague and hesitant in expressing what you need up til now, and it sounds like your husband is on the submissive side. He may respond really well to you taking charge, if you can overcome your inhibitions (or not, it's impossible to know until you try). But it's also possible that you and he are sexually incompatible, and that he just doesn't want the rougher, more passionate sex that would be satisfying for you.

I had severe panic attacks when I had that conversation with my STBX wife in 2013. My first stop was a psychiatrist who got me on some medications that really helped. There's no good reason to suffer more than you have to.

Here are a few other recommendations:

Get an apartment that you like... It will make you feel better. It doesn't have to be a long-term decision. But have a place you feel good about.

Go to Ikea and get new stuff. Furnish your place. Use TaskRabbit liberally to do the shitty assembly stuff for you.

Get a therapist... you need someone to talk to. It may seem expensive, but remember, this is a 12-month or less situation.

Before you start dating, I recommend reading Tucker Max's new book, Mate, (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316375365/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0316375365&linkCode=as2&tag=tucmax-20&linkId=B42LME2RMHW7DM6E) or listen to his podcast, Mating Grounds. It helped me a ton.

When you feel like you're ready (i.e. when you genuinely reach a place where you hope the best for your ex), get on Bumble, Hinge, Tinder, Happn, OkCupid, etc. and start meeting women for drinks. You'll be pleasantly surprised. Good luck.

The Game is just a story, though it does include some tips and examples of the techniques they use. It's more entertainment than educational.

Instead, he should read the actual handbook written by Neil Strauss and Eric von Markovik (Style and Mystery).

Disclaimer: It should go without saying that this material is somewhat controversial. I read The Game and the handbook back in college, and it did wonders for my confidence and romantic life, but I often get funny looks when I recommend these books. He also shouldn't expect changes overnight. Real confidence takes months or even years to build. By that time he may grow out of the desire for meaningless hookups and might find himself more interested in something more permanent. Either way, boosted confidence won't hurt.

DISCLAIMER: I'm about to mention a very controversial topic/subreddit. You don't have to agree with it, just please consider it for a moment.

If you find yourself lonely, and possibly shy with women, I would recommend reading The Game and visiting /r/seduction.
Remember to take EVERYTHING you see with a grain of salt, no ...a shovel of salt. I don't endorse using any of the vocabulary or manipulative practices.

Under all the shit there, you will find some good information. I used to live in a sea of self doubt, fear, and loneliness; not anymore. Studying attraction gave me a sense of confidence that I previously lacked. I can now talk to any woman I want with confidence. Talking to women now no longer scares me. I am able to be myself and confidently know that women will find me attractive. I no longer apply self limitations to my conscious /r/howtonotgiveafuck helps with that.

I am now a happy, confident, balanced person. I am embarrassed to say, but Neil's book The Game has been the best self help book I've read to date.

EDIT: You may already know this, but happiness doesn't come from relationships with women but with friendships with everyone. Studying attraction might not give you happiness but it might be blocking your path too happiness. I couldn't see that before I read The Game, now after learning that I am back on the correct path to happiness.

Partially at best, in my opinion. Yes, being skilled at making a man feel good -- through sex, respect, etc. -- is useful for sustaining a relationship.

But my model for pair bonding is that a person becomes bonded when they give, not when they receive.

The world is full of women who gave and gave and gave, become tightly pair bonded to their partner, only to have their hearts broken when they learn their partner hasn't developed the same feelings.

And the world is full of men who do their submissive best to be giving to women, developing strong and unreciprocated attachments. Bitter "friend zoned" guys really have developed emotional attachments to women who have never shown them any romantic interest.

So my recommendation for women is to ask for a lot of investment and attention from their partners, while rewarding that investment with good feelings. That maximizes the chance that the partner will pairbond while offering a fair and mutually beneficial trade in return. Investing without your partner reciprocating will likely just get you hurt. Asking for his investment without reciprocating with good feelings will create resentment on his part.

If you want to know more about the strategy of asking for -- insisting on, really -- male investment, The Rules is worth a read. The exact strategies it proposes are controversial, but I would definitely recommend it to jog your thinking.

See also the Ben Franklin effect.

Likely downvote bait, but there really is some good information for your situation in /r/seduction. There is also some smarmy pickup bullshit, so use your own judgement.

The information of value simply has to do with self improvement, and emboldening your interactions with women to clearly display your intentions. This is difficult to do, but short of that you often end up as a friend. As that's what you're acting like.

Can't say I care for the title but I really recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358.

It explains very well how simply being your unabashed self, honest and genuine with your interactions, is key to your romantic pursuits.

Be cool (easier said then done, right?). Don't worry, don't be hard on yourself. Some advice:

• don't try hard, be yourself (girls can smell desperation)
  
• smile more
  
• talk to everyone (get comfortable to talking to everyone: men and women)
  
• STOP MASTERBATING, stop looking at porn, you will feel more alive than you ever have. But stop. Learn to control yourself. Self-control is a lifelong battle for every man.
  
• start lifting weights now, 5x5 is a good place to start
  
• slowly start buying clothes that fit you properly (it takes years to build up a good wardrobe, buy quality)
  
• check out r/seduction to get an idea on how to be comfortable around girls, just realize girls read this stuff too and know the tricks, so don't be a douchebag - remember you want to be charismatic and likeable, not fake and manipulative
  
• read Models and No More Mr Nice Guy
  
• again....exercise, join a sports team, get in the habit of exercising and eating healthy, whole foods....cut out junk food now.
  
• stop watching TV and porn, start reading books, read up on Marcus Aurelius
  
  You have all of mankind's knowledge at your fingertips, use it...but use it wisely.
  
  I'll leave you with a quote from Fight Club (great book by the way):
  
  Warning: If you are reading this then this warning is for you. Every word you read of this useless fine print is another second off your life. Don't you have other things to do? Is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? Or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all that claim it? Do you read everything you're supposed to read? Do you think every thing you're supposed to think? Buy what you're told to want? Get out of your apartment. Meet a member of the opposite sex. Stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. Quit your job. Start a fight. Prove you're alive. If you don't claim your humanity you will become a statistic. You have been warned- Tyler.

1- she is not an HB 8 take of the goggles, pull her off the pedestal (cheating is not attractive)

2- Your frame is for shit (you are thinking you might be guilty of "imposing on trust and privacy" by verifying and you find out she is still receiving messages


You have 3 kids, one is an infant ? And, you honestly think she would feel violated if you confronted her ?

You may have read your whole list of books, but, let me explain a dose of reality, you have not made the content yours


"This most recent exchange ended with him saying “Love you”. My wife replied with “Thanks, Love you too”. "

"and my wife returned with an “I love you too”, which I know my wife would just say is a “friendly” thing, as she does say “love you” to lots of different friends and family members, but this did not sit well with me.

absolutely unacceptable. hard boundary crossed

Read

Read

Read chapter 27

What I would do, you wouldn't have the stomach or guts for, but then again, most men aren't me



last statement - I pray for your son and medical issues, I also pray for you to internalize the sidebar and draw some boundaries. Most importantly, for self respect. Good Luck

Just practice. Nothing seemed to work when I was in college but now I’m in my 30s and it’s easy. I do better with girls in their early 20s than when I was their age.

Also, I’ve read a lot of the books, and this one is by far the best (and most enjoyable to live by): Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_.Hx-Bb60GWZHB

> This is why ugly rich guys can get hot young women.

Actually, the reason why those type of men get women isn't necessarily because he's rich. Wealth is associated with value and hard work, key factors in the male gender role (ie masculinity).

Women are attracted to guys that are confident, charming, and responsible (more key factors in masculinity). Guys that demonstrate this have a higher chance of dating "hot women" rather than those that don't. Which explain why ugly not rich guys still get very hot, even rich, women.

This [book] (http://www.amazon.com/The-Manual-What-Women-Want/dp/1456494554) has a better explanation of what I'm talking about. It really changed the way I see MtF and FtM attraction.

You're doing WAY too much. Dial it back about 10 notches at least. You're assuming that because you would enjoy getting little notes, he does too. But it seems pretty clear that he just finds that annoying.

Most guys love the thrill of the chase. You've made it very obvious to him that he has absolutely no need to pursue you. He's got you. Now he's just testing to see how little he can get away with doing and still keep you as his girlfriend. Trust me, he knows it bothers you, but he doesn't care. Because he's certain you're always going to be there.

If you want to be appreciated again, STOP. Stop absolutely everything. No more notes, sexy texts, FB messages, etc ... As far as the chores go, don't ask him to do any (since he isn't anyway). You just do the things you need to for yourself - wash your own clothes, clean only the dishes you dirtied or that you need for your meal. Buy groceries that you want to eat. Let him fend for himself.

Don't explain to him why you've changed your behavior, just do it and act as if nothing is different. Find a few outside interests and spend more time away from him. Make it clear through your actions (not words) that you won't always be available at his beck and call.

If you really want to keep the relationship, this is the book you need to read: Why Men Love Bitches Every piece of advice she gives is dead-on accurate.

I would recomended you read Models by Mark Manson. It's a great book that takes an analytical approach on improving yourself and improving your self confidence to attract high caliber women that interest you through honesty. It is much better then over PUA books that focus on pick up lines and being fake. It really helped me a lot.


Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_ou.8wbM9K207W

Edit: He also dedicates a chapter in the book to discussing how to choose locations to meet women that fit what you are looking for, it sounds like going out to clubs probably is not the place to go if you are frustrated by materialsim.

With good looks, confidence, and money, your chances are good. Biggest success rate change for me was learning to be forward--not submissive (/r/TheRedPill, Models, etc).

Online dating is tough. It's swarmed with guys and the girls there are often spoiled by their attention. I still use AM/OKC/CL, but the girls are typically much less attractive than my real life pickups. Still worth a run in most people's opinions. It's a better hobby than TV.

Picking up girls in the real world is the most fun, and if you have any swagger, your best odds.

But honestly, you should get a divorce. Staying married to this woman horribly hinders your options. There are troves of lovely 18-35yo ladies that'd date/marry/procreate with a 50yo man. Your current wife can remain a friend, but "I happen to be legally married" is something you need to tell a woman before you fuck her, and it runs a lot of them off.

Younger women will date an older married man, too. But the relationships are much more likely to be shallow and just be about sex or money. I don't recommend cruising for single girls and lying to them about your married status btw. That ends very badly.

You're taking the wrong lessons out of this book. Yes, you should care about yourself and your values more than others. However, what you're talking about is not caring about others in the slightest. That's insane!

You're going from one extreme to the next. But you will still have the same insecurity at heart.

How do I know? I've been there. I was that nice guy that helped everyone out when they needed and didn't get anything back in return, or refused to take back. Then one day, I had enough. I became a raging dick to everyone, my friends, family, housemates. I'm still suffering from the fallout of what I did, 3 years on.

Change is good. And I'm glad you're taking action to change. But becoming obsessively narcisstic is not the best path. You'll get some of what you want but lose the things you loved.

Focus on yourself first, and then care about those around you next. Don't go full throttle on the former. Check out this, it talks about exactly what you're going through --> Models: Attract Women through Honesty

And here is an exerpt --> The Power in Vulnerability

At the end of the day, do what you want to do. I wish you the best of luck.

edit: Spelling, added 1 sentence.

Easily the best resource I can recommend from own experience, changed my life:

Models by Mark Manson

Buy it. Read it. Get out there. I agree with the other comments, it starts within. You need to grasp who you are as a person from within and BE different from everyone else. Forget the random attractive girls, you need to explore things that make you who you are and find the demographic of women that would be most compatible. If you like to play video games and occasionally play pick up ultimate the girl in the ugg boots and yoga pants at Starbucks ordering a Venti Double whip chai mocha latte is NOT for you. First step toward finding the right girl is figuring out what YOU like to do and enjoy YOUR own activities first and foremost. A girl should be as interested in you as you are in her, you do you and invite them to SHARE experiences in YOUR life. Not become a PART of it or be put on a PEDESTAL.

It helped me to understand what it means to be an emotionally-centered, confident man, and what women are actually attracted to.

I didn't have a clue about these things growing up. My father was emotionally unavailable, I was teased in school for being skinny, and I enjoyed video games and reading more than sports or cars. There wasn't a good masculine role model in my life.

This left me unprepared for high school, and when I did find girls that were attracted to me, I didn't know what to do with them. I figured if I acted like the jerks that I grew up with, they would like me. Turns out they just thought I was a jerk (go figure).

My lack of success and insecurities with women continued into college, but instead of acting like a jerk, I would end up being a doormat. I wasn't until my first "relationship" ended that I decided I needed to fix this part of my life and read the book.

It made me do a total 180 in terms of what I thought was expected of me as a man. Like removing a veil over my eyes. I recommended it to a friend and it did the same for him. I'm in a much healthier place now, mentally and physically, and my self-esteem is high. It's not something that changes overnight, but over time.

Two more books that I've read more recently which are also great are No More Mr. Nice Guy and The 3% Man

Forget women and focus on yourself. You're taking the right steps, but you're doing it for female validation and it's an unhealthy mental approach.

Congratulations on the weight loss, but crash dieting with a burn out can cause bigger problems.

\> Once the excess weight is off, I’m gonna begin lifting weights and working out to ideally get in shape

Start now. Lifting weights helps burn fat (during and after), it helps you hold the fat better, and you sound skinnyfat right now (not sure if you are, but either way). Start lifting. You'll probably spike up a few pounds at first, so take measurements (waist, 2 inches above waist, 2 inches below waist, hips, and chest across nipples) weekly so you can see progress there.

Read Models by Mark Manson https://www.amazon.de/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358. Yes it's a seduction book, look past that. Most of the book is about being honest with yourself and fixing your problems.

You've got this, feel free to PM if you need someone to bounce thoughts off.

Also, for the love of god, use paragraphs.

There is a book called "The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists" by Neil Strauss. It is almost entirely a narrative story, but it illustrates the basic principles by which pick up artists try to attract women. Why would this be interesting to you? I will tell you why: Evey stratagem and trick employed by the pick-up artists on women show just as much about the men that use them. Additionally, almost all may be used against the men to a greater effect. It's a good book to understand what tools some men use to become confident about women. Also it is a very interesting read, if not a bit (very) misogynistic.

This post was enough to catch my attention. Like Caperslol said though, we can't really trust if you're an 8 without pictures. Personality-wise, you seem like an alright girl.

edit: recant of proposition

He is a good guy for keeping up with it. That may destroy him in the end.

> This is an underlying issue to take care of yourself through therapy and possibly reading a TON of books. Like this [one] (http://www.amazon.com/Attached-Science-Adult-Attachment-YouFind/dp/1585429139/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458240900&sr=8-1&keywords=Attachment) and this one and one more that I cannot link for some odd reason but its more on the spiritual side but helped me IMMENSELY, well two books really, both by the same guy, Osho. One is called "Emotions: Freedom from Anger, Jealousy and Fear". The other book from Osho is called "Love, Freedom, and Aloneness: The Koan of Relationships".

They really show you the why in terms of science and great anecdotes. If you don't like to read I suggest finding them on youtube and listening to them.

This is not something that'll fix itself overnight. Talk to him and tell him that you are working on it but it'll take time if he wants to stay and deal with it. Or else all your future relationships are doomed to fail.

Believe me I used to be that way. Jealousy is natural. What you feel is okay. How you control it is everything. Good luck and I'm sending you all the good vibes my raving friend.

P.S: Raves are dope. Hopefully doing Tomorrowland in 2017.

> I envy you that you're already in a position to know what to do etc because of your past experience.

I will say with total honesty that I am handling this breakup much better than my last, and that is a direct result of this sub and all of the books I've read. And age. I am 42. While it doesn't get easier with time (in fact, I'd argue that breakups are exponentially more difficult as you age), the way I manage and react to a breakup has gotten easier.

I highly recommend these books IF you are ready to heal and work on yourself. If you're not ready to grieve, heal and work on yourself, these books won't help you at all.

The first one is: Getting Past Your Breakup: How to Turn a Devastating Loss into the Best Thing That Ever Happened to You. This one has been very helpful in sorting out my emotions and explaining why I'm feeling the way I do.

The second one is The No Contact Rule. This book was especially helpful for me the during my previous breakup because it explained WHY a person must absolutely, positively, without question go no contact after a breakup. It was especially true in my case as I was horribly mistreated. I didn't know about no contact last time. I kept contacting him until about six months after the breakup. I began no contact, smiley face calendar and all, the day after I read this book. Cliche as it sounds, it was only when I went no contact that I began to heal and pick up the pieces of my life. I think it was so important for me to see in cold, hard print that I was devaluing, disrespecting and embarrassing myself every time I reached out to someone who didn't want me. After reading the book, I was able to reject the rejecter. This book is an easy read, well worth the $5.

Again, I am not a woman who likes self help books. They typically make me shudder. I really just don't like them for whatever reason. But I have found that books about breakups are tremendously helpful and provide honesty that your friends and family will not provide. Also, therapy. If you can afford therapy, go.

Damn, that is very hard to deal with. I'm glad you made this post though, because it's important to vent, and look for solutions.

This is a good opportunity to perhaps invest this emotion into something greater that will help you overcome any feelings of insecurity you have that end up becoming apparent in your relationships even when you don't realize it. You mentioned gaining weight? Perhaps join a fitness club, start adjusting some lifestyle habits. r/fitness has some great resources, you'll be surprised how many of those folks started because of something like this in their lives. If you feel like there's something wrong with the women you're attracted to, I like this guy's book (also this article might be more related). The book kind of comes off as one those PUA things but it has some really valuable lessons on vulnerability, and the stem causes of manipulative behavior.

Just find an interest that you can dedicate time to and never forget that time is the best healer. The line is so fucking cliche but it is very real. Things feel shit now, and it isn't easy. But give yourself time to think things over, and allow yourself to be mad because that shit does not sound fun. But don't just stop trying to make yourself better. Good luck dude.

If you're really interested in polyamory then I'd also suggest reading about it. Poly itself isn't that hard, but a lot of unexpected emotions can happen when you attempt it, and some people trying CNM sometimes create and/or agree to rules than can later backfire and destroy the relationships, so... if you like learning from experience of others, you might want to try those:

1. When Someone You Love Is Polyamorous - nice, short, and neutral intro to polyamory - what it is, and what it isn't. Good for family and friends, too.
   
2. The Smart Girl's Guide to Polyamory - more personal approach, written from a girl perspective.
   
3. More Than Two - detailed explanation of many things that might happen in polyamorous relationships, kind of "polyamory bible". Definitively worth reading, too.

This post deserves more insight than I can provide. Hopefully more experienced people will see it.

First: Know that in your position (age, income, etc.) you have options (good ones). If you decide to leave your marriage it sounds like you're in a good place. A part of me would be nervous about letting that deal sit on the table and not taking it. At some point she will realize her future options are diminishing and may revoke the clean getaway offer.

Second: You took a huge step in the right direction finding TRP. There's a lot here that can help you (even in your situation where you're ability to experiment is limited). I'm reading "The Rational Male" by Rollo Tomassi. $10 on Amazon I recommend getting it. It's a compilation of many of his best posts on his blog. He's a married man and has a solid perspective on things.

One of the concepts he covers is re-stimulating "competition anxiety" Basically if you start improving yourself enough to the point that you're getting attention from other women, your wife will feel more inclined to go out of her way to please you. Her imagination (thinking about what you plan to do, the attention you're getting might make to do something with someone) is gold. There's a lot to learn in the book/his posts and I think you'd benefit from it whether you stay or not.

Third: As far as your sexual experience, check out "Sex God Method" by Daniel Rose. It sounds corny but it's a pretty quick read that completely changed my sex life (like humans discovering fire for the first time kind of 'changed').

Best of luck

I have read Mate

https://www.amazon.com/Mate-Become-Man-Women-Want/dp/0316375365

It is embarrassing to have read it but I found some of the exact same self help information in another book about controlling parents. I guess the good thing is I had also already done quite a bit of work the book recommended such as be in shape and take care of your mental health.

They had a podcast that had further recommended reading and advice such as

It's Not All About Me: The Top Ten Techniques for Building Quick Rapport with
Anyone

https://www.amazon.com/dp/057809665X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_wstdzbP00CXWS

And taking improv comedy classes. All of which I have now done.

It really gave me a frame of reference I didn't have before. Very helpful in understanding not just romantic relationships but all relationships.

Seriously, you can just watch groundhogs day and get the gist of the book.

Edit: I heard about it through the Art of Manliness podcast. He did another one with another author who basically said stop reading self help books and just go out and have fun. I refuse to read another one.

> Do what you think you should do, theres nothing wrong with fucking up sometimes.

OP came here for help because he is clueless as to how he should approach this. And while I agree that he should do what he believes he should do, OP lacks the guidance and a model of how an attractive man acts.

To OP: I want you to read the book Models by Mark Manson. It's an amazing book that will help guide you not only through your trouble with women, but it allows you to learn to love yourself and become genuinely confident with yourself.

There was a time in my life when I would worry about every little thing to say to a girl, how I should impress her and how not to offend her. Reading Models helped me so much and I know that it will help you.

Do yourself a favor and give it a read, it will be one of the biggest steps you ever make in your personal development.

This is so far my to go list, no particulary order:

Body Language

Models: Attract Women Through Honesty

No More Mr Nice Guy

The Flinch

The Blueprint Decoded

How to Win Friends & Influence People

The Manual: What Women Want and How to Give It to Them

These books/dvds/audiobooks are about self development and basic understanding of human behaviour, I honestly think everybody can benefit from this stuff.

Edit:

Also find a good book about improving your voice, no idea here because I use one in german.

1.) Decide on a work out regiment or martial art to study, hit it hard

2.) Read Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey

3.) Simplify. Eliminate EVERYTHING you can. Reduce your life down to what you can fit in your car.

4.) Read The Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi

5.) Eliminate brain fog (quality sleep/foods, cut out excessive drinking/smoking, continue to read, research topics that interest you, listen to podcasts, etc.)

6.) Seek out accessible (local, online, social networks) resources within the music business and wring them for info. Do your fucking research.

7.) Move out. And not down the street, go where they do what you want to do.

8.) Decide to dedicate a serious amount of time to your dream, and how to get there. Treat it like its your goddamn job, or like you're studying it in school, whether you actually end up in school for it or not.

9.) Make a legitimate effort to go out and talk to women. Do so with an experimental emphasis.

10.) RECORD YOUR PROGRESS.

I found video journaling hugely effective. It doesn't make much sense at the time, but going back and reviewing them later, you will be glad that you did.

You can do this my friend, don't feel hopeless. No one thing is going to fully activate your potential. It's a mentality shift that you're after, and that takes work. Just be sure to help the newly unplugged as you progress.

BroFist

EDIT: formatting

These two books helped me:

• Models: Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson
  
• No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert A. Glover
  
  A big take away is to stop worrying about impressing women with your niceness. Don't say or do things hoping to get anything in return, don't build a friendship hoping to turn it into something. Get some hobbies, work on yourself, and just be a real genuine nice person and things will turn around.
  
  Two years ago I couldn't get a date to save my life. Now I date regularly. I attribute it to #1 not giving a fuck, #2 having more confidence, and #3 being in better shape. In that order.

Study pickup arts and then beat them at their own game. Know the tactics that they use to get a girl into bed, and be on the alert.

The must-read on the topic is Mystery Method: How to Get Beautiful Women Into Bed, by Mystery I used to have a link to an online pdf of the entire book but I can't seem to find a working link now.

Side note - just because a guy employs some of the above tactics doesn't rule him out as a possible LTR, it just means that you need to be extra cautious about what his true motives are. The principles in the book are useful for helping guys do better at relating to women in general for any purpose, not just one night stands. But it is used most frequently for getting as many women to bed as quickly as possible.

Or, the simpler approach is this = actions speak louder than words. Disregard everything he says, disregard all promises made and intentions spoken, and only consider how motivated he seems to be based on his actions. This means waiting to have sex, because if you put out too early, you won't have had enough time to really observe what his true motives might be. If holding off on the sex seems to be driving guys away, this means it is working - it's repelling the guys who only wanted quick sex and nothing more.

I'll keep it as brief as I can. In order of (subjective) importance:

> I'm seriously afraid of being alone for ever. I know I'm young but I am just so tired of constantly trying with no success or even validation; only rejection.

Perhaps you'll find some solace in the fact that you are far from the only person to be experiencing this type of loneliness. The fact seems to be that we are not taught how to find mates, and society is not configured in a way to assist with this. If you've been frustrated because the girls you meet on Tinder or at the bar flake at the slightest moment then you aren't alone. Turn the tables in your favour - become more deliberate with your hunt for a mate. You'll find much more success. Rather than going on about it, I'll just point you at the best (of many) books I've come across on the subject. Stop playing this game blindly and learn how it really works.

If that sounds distasteful, treating dating like a project, then consider what you're going through right now. Consider how painful this experience is, and, if necessary, liken it to previous times you've experienced anything approximating heartbreak in a relationship. How long did it take to recover? How long will it take you to fully recover this time? A year? Two? Do you really want to gamble giant chunks of your life and mental health on an occasional, incidental and clearly failing process? You can do much much better, especially if you start working at it while you're young. Go read that book.

> I do agree that someone will need to cease being present. I've resolved to cease being friends with her. [...] I sent her a message explaining my feelings one more time, what I intend to do, and why.

Without hyperbole, this is the single most important sentiment you expressed. You have other friends right? People to support you? Cut her off as soon as possible. It isn't mean when it's self preservation.

> I am not good enough and apparently never was. Really I got friendzoned, but I went into it knowing that could happen and it did.

A good rule of thumb is the "hell yeah" rule. Would you date them? ("hell yeah!") Would they date you? ("well, uh, it's complicated..."). Hell yeahs all around is a good sign of a relationship worth investing in.

Again, good luck. Post again if you need to rant, and check out the discord server too. Lots of good people in this subreddit.

+1 to most of the above.

I am on wife number 2 now and SO much happier. I was young and alone and modeled my relationship off of my parent's dysfunctional one... Was in it for 8.5yrs. Got out of it and although there were some rough times, I made it through... I then spent a year or two hooking up with as many girls as I could, then happened upon an AMAZING woman - married her last November.

I got very lucky with meeting the first girl I hooked up with after my ex, but after that it wasn't too rough. My suggestions are:

1. Read this (though he seems to have a newer book out too) - if only for the confidence bump.
   
   
2. Got on OkCupid. (Its where I met the majority of my hookups, and my new wife.)
   
   
3. Remind yourself that you fucking rock. Know that and act like it, and people (ie women) will see it and respect it.
   
   Cheers!

The ones with boyfriends I met on dating apps while they were single. I'd tell them from the beginning that I was slow to commit and if they needed lots right away I wasn't gonna be the guy for them. When things went on for a while and they realized I was never going to be exclusive with them, they'd move on to an exclusive relationship and keep me as a friend. This method plants the seed for a whole bunch of girls coming back to you for hookups between relationships, or like I mentioned, when they're unhappy in their current relationship.

Regarding my divorce, I like control and I married someone else who likes control. We both wanted control more than we wanted to be with each other, so we separated and eventually divorced. We're still close friends, but we want different things and agree that it's best to be apart.

Edit: I read this book shortly after my separation and it completely changed my approach to relationships, both sexual and platonic. I can't recommend it enough if you want to fill your life with people that make you happy.

https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358

I am reading this books called models: attracting women through honesty. It has been extremely helpful for me.

>Models is the first men's dating book ever written on seduction as a purely emotional process rather than a logical one, a process of connecting with women rather than impressing them, a process of self-expression rather than manipulation. It's the most mature and honest guide on how a man can attract women without faking behavior, without lying and without emulating others. A game-changer.

http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1420342456&sr=8-2&keywords=models

-This is just traditional advice, but it says a lot about whether a man respects women: pay attention to how he treats his mother. Does he respect her? Does he look up to her? Those are some good signs. EDIT: y'all I did not mean for this to come across like I think it applies in every case. I don't even know about most cases. But based on my own experience, I think it's a good thing to pay attention to.

-How does he talk about his ex girlfriends? Are they all ~crazy~ or ~bitches~ in his mind? RED FLAG

-If a man says he's a feminist, know that this doesn't mean anything. Wait until he shows that he's feminist in his actions. I once dated an incredibly abusive guy who stalked me after we broke up, but often claimed to be "the most feminist guy he knew" LOL

-Ask him his opinion about feminist issues that are close to you. What does he think about the wage gap? Prostitution? Pornography?(I think it's very hard to find men who aren't flat-out addicted to porn which takes a toll on a relationship, especially if you're anti-porn.) It's not a deal-breaker if he doesn't agree with you 100%, but it's probably a red flag if you find that it's hard to have a rational conversation.

-Finally, I recommend that all straight women read stuff on "pick-up culture" and "game" to identify when men are trying to manipulate you. Reading some of the how-to-manuals for douche-bags can help you identify them. The whole culture is pretty misogynistic. Here's one example: https://www.amazon.com/Game-Penetrating-Secret-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738

Some thoughts
One thing that got me thinking was his slide on the how and the why. Basically the chart looks like this:

Advice | Reason |
--------|-----------|
confidence | risk taking |
charisma | social hierarchy |
competence | provisions |
leadership | overall survival |

Talking to a stranger is risk taking. Having good charisma makes you seem higher up on the totem pole. Who gathered the most animals? A big question in women's hypergamous brain is who have the most provisions.

This got me to thinking about how I would develop social confidence? "The most important mark of confidence a man can do is to start a conversation with somebody... approach, approach, approach." (@~34:00)

So I brainstormed:

Advice | Reason | Action|
--------|------|--------|
confidence | risk taking | Approach
charisma | social hierarchy | Work in Bar/Meet Ups/ ...
competence | provisions | Job/Budgeting/Investing/show dangerous side...
leadership | overall survival | Get in Leadership Positions/Volunteer...

How feasible are the actions? Approaching can be done today by going outside, but I am [insert hamstering] and she is [hamstering]....

Here are the books he recommended @~40:18

1. A Billion Wicked Thoughts: What the Internet Tells Us About Sexual Relationships
   
   Shows what men and women want.
   
   
2. Dataclysm
   
   
3. Date-onomics: How Dating Became a Lopsided Numbers Game
   
   
4. What's the most popular book for women? 50 shades... (a man taking charge is attractive and dominant)
   
   Advice:
   
   Become keen observers of human nature and behavior based on reality. One way is to take walks with your dog, sit at a cafe and eavesdrop on people on dates.
   
   He also recommended getting social history books and getting a book list together. Not sure if the list above is the list or a quick glimpse.
   
   Background:
   
   Man is dying. I saw him on reddit offering free advice and skype sessions before. I thought there may be a catch and I was insecure. Fast forward today I see him on the stage, I wish I have taken up the offer
   and am thinking about spending a day with him. Usually never have someone like that in my life, wonder about how a day with him would be like. Crowd in the room are tired and silencing his side jokes, but sometimes the
   crowd (or one person) comes alive and responds. I would of been stoic/quiet/beta (on and on) in the audience, but would fantasize about his points. At end no one seem to have questions so he have to probe the audience "anyone want to know about my eye patch?"
   
   questions around @48:00
   
   
5. your pickup line?
   
   
6. charisma and leadership?
   
   etc.

If you have a strong sense of self and really confident, then start with Models, otherwise read No More Mr Nice Guy then Models. After that start going out and applying what you learn. Watch some pickup videos (RSD, Willy Beck)...etc. Also that subreddit is really a mine of gold, learn from it as much as you can. Find dudes you can pickup and do that shit with sometimes, It's a lot easier and more fun actually. My point is: Start your journey and let yourself evolve overtime (no need to rush) and don't take it seriously. One important thing to say is that: Applying is really important and don't slip into the intellectual circle like me of taking videos/books so much and not doing anything. Cause if you do that, overtime you will find that a one book really has tons of information and applying it gonna take so much. So what's the need of accumulating these resources. And be careful of the marketing techniques of these products, they are deceitful sometimes. Peace.

Hey dude! Cheer up! Anything can be learned

• Fashion: Check out /r/malefashionadvice for tips. Wear fitting (read: tight-ish) button ups, get some good ideas on outfits. While at your age graphic tees are fine, there's no reason not to reach a bit.
  
  
• Fitness: Work out if you're not already. This is one thing I regret, starting working out late. Check out Stronglifts 5x5 for a good beginner course. It's free, only requires you to work out three days a week for about 30 minutes, and it's really easy to measure your success.
  
  
• Flirting: Learn how to speak to women. Pick up a copy of "The Game" by Neil Strauss for a great crash course. Take with a grain of salt; some people get way too into "pick-up" and turn out a douchebaggy turd.
  
  Gluck!

Money: Watch this over and over, take notes and internalize the information. Read this. Live within your means.

Social Contacts: Fnordsnord covered it. Also read "How to Win Friends and Influence People." Actually take notes, practice what you read and reread. Read this blog post.

Women: You're already on redpill so you're probably pretty set on knowledge there. Read this, this, and this anyway. Internalize, practice, reread.

Life: Two suggestions, 1) Your first reaction to things isn't always the right reaction. 2) Prepare to fail. Skipped a gym visit or missed a lift? Chump = give up. Man = you were prepared for this it doesn't phase you. You're back at it tomorrow. Narrow your life to a few important things and work daily on them. Don't overdo it just plod along. All the greatest achievements in life are done with steady hard work. Read this

Career: Every two-four weeks or so update your resume (keep two versions of your resume, a super long form with absolutely every reference, accomplishments, phone number, address, date, etc and a super short form single page one with all the highlights, make it pretty) and glance for either a higher paying job within your field or a higher status job. Always secure a new job before leaving an old one. If you're still in college or decide to go back, pick a career field that will be in demand when you graduate. Start applying while you are still in school. Read this.

Organization: buy a simple small 2 drawer filing cabinet and manilla folders, put important docs in there. Digitize super important docs. Clean it out every once in a while. Watch this.

Study habits/learning habits: I don't really have time to go into this in any detail but go to everyclass. Take comprehensive notes, ask a shit ton of questions, bounce new things you're learning off people and discuss it as much as possible. Find people that know the material better than you and spend time with them. Take those notes you wrote and get a piece of paper. Draw three columns. Right column is most important info that might be on test/eval, center column is that same info in short hand, left column is a visual representation of the information that might help you daisy chain memorize it. This is my own technique so PM if you'd like more clarification. Turn every assignment in no matter how poor the quality. Last but not least one more time prepare to fail. Talk to your boss or professor if you're slipping; our first impulse is to turn inward and blame yourself and not seek others to help because it looks weak. Like I said your first reaction/feeling isn't always the right one. Prepare to fail. Be antifragile. Good luck; you don't need it if you apply yourself, plan, and work diligently.

Edit: One last thing. Statistically you will live a long time. Think with your future self in mind everyday.

Models by Mark Manson

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1463750358/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1396985513&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40

A great book on learning how to improve yourself to be attractive to yourself and others. It's geared towards men of course but I would recommend to ladies as well.

Manuscript Found in Accra by
Paulo Coelho

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0345805054/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1396985699&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40

A friend let me borrow this book last week and it's incredible. This book may hold the secrets of life. So much wisdom covers the pages of this book.

It's been a while, but the book breaks down the mechanics of being a 'nice guy', in particular the 'transactional' nature of how they view relationships (especially with women), and then helps guys build behaviours that help them end that kind of thinking. If you find yourself thinking "I do all this for my crush/girlfriend/fiance/wife but they don't show interest/affection back", then it's perfect for you.

It's a really good book, but I would say it's only a beginning. I'd follow it up with Models by Mark Manson, and I have The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck on my bookshelf, but haven't opened it yet.

Do I think men can collectivize like women do? No. Do I think there are things to be done to let men maximize their freedom and happiness in light of the sea changes society has seen over the past half century (the full effects of which have yet to be seen)? Absolutely.

I’d highly recommend this book as it delves deeply into what masculinity is and how it finds itself in the current situation. The best immediate advice I can give you is that, since we live in a bubble and are thus in uncharted territory, any “old order” way of living i e any prescription that doesn’t take into account the changes that have already occurred, is not in your best interest. This can take various forms, everything from calls for you to “man up” and pay for things/marry/work jobs you don’t like etc. to people thinking men don’t have problems because “patriarchy” etc.

That said, men haven’t changed even as society has (d)evolved around them, and still have the same drives for mastery, respect, sex and belonging even as the means for obtaining these things are eroded or twisted, and this is why increasing numbers of men are “dropping out”.

Your job as a young man is to figure out a way to balance these two competing forces.

I recommend reading The Truth by u/iamneilstrauss https://www.amazon.com/Truth-Uncomfortable-Book-About-Relationships/dp/0060898763

Even better, if you're really looking for love, check out Getting the Love You Want by Harville Hendrix: https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Love-You-Want-Anniversary/dp/0805087001

You're welcome!

To be honest I learned a lot from reading She Comes First, the first half of the book is about your anatomy and the second half is about potential approaches you might enjoy :)

Conversely, he made another book for pleasuring the penis called Passionista with a similar layout.


If you like reading about sex, this one is pretty damn good too: Bonk

Reading about sex is fun because you not only do you get to learn more about yourself and/or your partner, but also some fun mechanics and potential exposure to things you might like to try.

Well, that's an art you have to master much of your young adult life. It's not easy and hard to explain in a post.

There are some books on the topic, some better or worse than others.
https://www.amazon.com/Ignore-Guy-Get-Survival-Mastering/dp/0615790852/#customerReviews
https://www.amazon.com/All-Rules-Time-tested-Secrets-Capturing/dp/0446618799/

for example.

The general idea is to flip the power dynamic so that it favors you, so that he has to "chase" and win your affections. Easier said then done. Sleeping with someone too soon is thought to be a big no-no, as you've already given him what he might want. And you have very little time left in this situation anyhow.

I'd say be 100% honest. And see what comes out of it. Don't be too clingy or needy. Don't do it in bed either. Say you like him, and that you'd like to keep in touch and see him in the future.

Start by reading the /r/polyamory FAQ if you haven't yet.

There are many good books out there, and reading any of these will help fill in a lot of blanks for you:

Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships

The Smart Girl's Guide to Polyamory: Everything You Need to Know About Open Relationships, Non-Monogamy, and Alternative Love

The Polyamory Toolkit: A Guidebook for Polyamorous Relationships

Building Open Relationships: Your hands on guide to swinging, polyamory, and beyond!

If you like listening to podcasts, there are a couple good ones I follow: Multiamory Podcast and Polyamory Weekly.

Go slow, read lots, and follow your heart.

I've read The Sacred Search, and thought that it was awesome. It taught how we can use the brains that God gave us to find a good potential spouse. The basic gist was, "Here's what you should be looking out for.... and, yeah, okay, the Holy Spirit does something too, don't ignore Him along the way."

Then I read When God Writes Your Love Story, and it blew my mind. It was the complete opposite approach, and focused on trusting God with your whole life, including your choice and timing of your spouse.

I don't think that either approach is inherently wrong or sinful or wasteful. But I ended up choosing the second option, and it's changed my whole spiritual life in a profound way.

Don't focus on the ceiling because the ceiling doesn't exist. The feelings you are feeling are very common. I have been there. I imply your fighting spirit. Your vigor is what keeps you strong. The solution is finding another job, meeting new people. It's not hard. It is very very simple.

READ THIS:

http://www.amazon.com/Game-Penetrating-Secret-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1450417312&sr=8-2&keywords=neil+strauss+the+game


This is a tool to help you get friends, increase confidence. You don't have to apply EVERYTHING the book says just some parts which you know you need to work on.


Life is an adventure. You are person with UNLIMITED potential.

Have you seen this book?

It’s a best seller. For almost two decades.

Surprise!

Women and men aren’t too different.

We’re all just people.

And we all want the same thing: sex, love, companionship.

Understand that powerful desire and your game will be good.

I feel the need to mention this as I haven't seen anyone else say it

Models by Mark Manson is an excellent read

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448974198&sr=8-1&keywords=models+mark+manson

It's a two-fold book - it's both a male dating advice book as well as a self-improvement book. The beauty of the book is rather than taking an approach similar to The Game which is more about attraction tactics and methods, Models is all about attracting women through self improvement.

Edit: Typo

tbh he may just have something going on these past two days, but he also may have gotten back together with the ex-gf. My advice: do nothing. You're right that you shouldn't ask. Just play it cool, and live your life the way you normally would. This book really helped me when I was in a similar situation. https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Love-Bitches-Relationship/dp/1580627560. Title's problematic, but the idea is that guys are attracted to independent women who do their own thing and aren't hanging on someone else's every word. If he still has interest in you, then seeing that his lessened correspondence doesn't bother you will catch his attention. If it doesn't catch his attention, then congrats! You're focusing on things in your life that are productive and positive!

There are people who teach seduction tips. I'm warning you now though, I probably know just enough to make an ass out of myself by talking about it. It's not something that I've invested a lot of time in, myself. From my extremely uninformed understanding, there tend to be two major points of view:

1. Being a man of "value". This is the theory that most people I know have looked into. Bettering yourself, building confidence, and then being proactive.
   
   
2. Peacocking. From what I understand this is wearing something ridiculous so that woman have a reason to come up to you, versus you cold approaching them. While I know that this theory works (I go out dressed rather unusually, but only because I like canes, tobacco pipes, silly hats, et cetera), from what I've been told most people feel that there is a lot of deception around this method.
   
   I've never studied any of that myself, I only know what friends have told me. Reddit does have a seduction subreddit, which may be of help. It's not the most active subreddit, IIRC. The Game by Neil Strauss is supposedly the best introduction. YMMV, I only know that it has helped some friends of mine. I believe you can find more info by searching for seduction, pick up artist, real man, peacock theory, mystery method. There appears to be a terrible stigma around all of this, so I stress that it should all be read with a grain of salt. There is no magic, no secret, as far as I'm concerned.
   
   One friend who did study it told me very proudly that he is finally proud of who he is, and no longer feels the need to hide behind his shell. I guess thats the point of all of it; breaking out of your shell.

I've actually read the book. It's called "The Game". It's a bizarre story about an extremely insecure short, bald guy who becomes a successful "pickup artist" by learning magic tricks and wearing boas and unusual hats.

While it seems to have improved his extremely low self-esteem he doesn't build one meaningful relationship with a single person throughout the entire book.

By the end of the book I felt nothing but pity for the people who had to disconnect from the world in order to get past the anxiety that kept them from meeting people. The greatest irony is that at the point that they finally gain enough confidence to meet people, they've lost the empathy and attachment that makes a relationship worthwhile.

I know some people say don't look at r/theredpill and they're mostly right. but doing some PUA stuff is kinda nice in this. alot of time, women is attitude and confidence.

A lot of PUA is bullshit and garbage. but the idea is fine. self improvement is great. /r/seduction is kinda meh. If i had a book to recommend to you. i'd read Mark Manson: Models

Some sound advice here already. I will also suggest, as cheesy as it sounds, this book that I send to every friend going through a breakup, as it helped me immensely during my divorce. It helped me by just laying things out in black and white, organized my thoughts, gave me a plan, and reminded me to take care of myself during this crappy time when it was the last thing I was thinking of. You may have days like yesterday once in a while maybe, but they will become less frequent and you'll learn you're strong enough to to move past them quickly. You're doing better than you think you are, hang in there! :)

Focus on improving yourself and the girls will seem easy. I recommend the book Mate: Become the Man Women Want. If you commit yourself to nofap and implementing even 70% of what's in that book, I bet you'll be more attractive than 90% of the guys in your school.

You're so young dude, I'm glad you're here. I really wish I started this self-improvement journey that I'm on when I was your age. I'm 21

I used to work in sales. I was pretty good at it according to the awards I won.

The first step is know your product. You should be able to answer every question. You need to be confident that you can answer those questions. That's just a lot of reading.

For the soft skills I recommend reading both of these books.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671723650

http://www.amazon.com/Game-Penetrating-Secret-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738

Edit: Formatting.

> e.g. they both use negging but is there a version where it is way more harsh? also, are pick up artists more socially acceptable than the red pillers

"Negging" is a specific PUA technique from the "Mystery Method" that is meant to "break through the bitch shield" and convince a woman that you are (in essence) sincere about engaging her socially and not just messing around. This is perhaps the most positive way to phrase that. PUAs "play a numbers game" in order to engage women that, as they see it, "want to be picked up".

A PUA is on a mission to get himself laid; whether or not that technique leads to something more substantive exceeds the scope of the technique. The general consensus is that these are "Dark Side of the Force" tactics.

Whether this is more socially acceptable than the red-pillers' deeper issues with power and sexual politics probably depends on your perspective.

What aren't you confident about?

My suggestion would be to practice meeting new people regularly. Just get out there and start talking to people. Talk to anyone, men or women, young or old. Especially talk to beautiful women. Be friendly and kind and go out of your way to start conversations with total strangers. It'll probably be awkward at first, and you'll definitely get shut down a few times and it will hurt, but it will get better. You'll start to realize that getting turned down is the worse thing that could happen and it won't kill you, and the conversations that do go well will really boost your confidence and make you feel empowered. You might want to check out The Game by Neil Strauss.

Hey Kid, you're young. Watch out for the bonding that sex does to you. I have a 15 year old boy and I'm gonna get him to read the book MMSL, therationalmale.com and possibly stuff about [Game] (http://www.amazon.com/The-Game-Penetrating-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1398327919&sr=8-3&keywords=neil+strauss). I want him, and you, to be as informed as possible about dealing with the opposite sex. I want him to understand the hormones/chemicals bonding him to his woman during sex. I want this for him and you because IT WAS NOT GIVEN TO ME and, hindsight being what it is, I wish I had been more informed. I've seen both ends of the spectrum - guys who've never had sex, pining over that one girl, and then on the other end, guys "bang" a different "chick" each week and wonder why they feel empty inside. Get informed man. And for the love of GOD do not bring a child into the world until you are good and ready (so about 12-14 years from now). Always always always use a condom and hope she's using something too.

This might be a bit controversial, but check out /r/seduction. It has gotten a bad rap on reddit, and a lot of that stems from how historically it tended to embrace highly ritualized and structured pickup techniques (e.g. The Mystery Method) which tended to creep people out, but nowadays it tends to skew much more towards a self-help forum: most of the posts are guys who are trying to be more charming, more interesting, and more confident. If you're looking for one book in particular, I'd highly recommend Models which is both very insightful and very well-written.

Nothing wrong with the kissing a man part, or even experimenting with it if you aren't into it, can't know until you try it. Any reaction to this part of it is probably overreacting but honestly understandable, we all are wrongly trained to feel like our masculinity is tied to our '100% straight, wouldn't even try it'-ness, just remember its ok to try different things even if they aren't who you are, trying things (that aren't dangerous) is how we learn, doesn't make you anything other than what you are (sounds like heterosexual).

Now for getting so drunk you made decisions you regret. That is something bad and something you can work on. Don't be disgusted with yourself, you made a mistake, and the end result was not the end of the world. No one likes the feeling of not knowing what they could have done and having to worry about doing things they wouldn't approve of when sober. The only way to fix that is not drink so much in the future that you lose control. That kind of drinking is romanticized by movies and stuff but not really good for anybody. Take this as a good warning not to overdo drinking in the future and not to use alcohol to deal with feeling down (which is one of the big times it will result in overdoing it).

Also, talk to your friend to make sure this doesn't happen again. Don't accuse if you were both drunk and consensually agreed, but let him know you don't ever want to do that again, and you'd appreciate if he ever find you in a state to not make decisions you are comfortable with, that he helps you remember what you'd want to do when sober. Remember, he made a bad decision too, but no different then you, he made a decision he wouldn't have made when sober, a reminder but not an accusation sounds in order. It sounds like its something you both decided to do while equally drunk, but there aren't enough details posted to say, if you think he really took advantage and you didn't want to, a very different conversation is in order, or at least stopping hanging out with that guy.

Anyways its going to be ok. You made a bad drunken (and emotional, being really lonely played a role) decision, we've all made those, or most of us anyways, at least yours didn't hurt anybody. You learned and you'll be more careful in the future. Cut yourself a break and don't beat yourself up about a mistake.

Also read this book if you want more confidence with women.

I am a 20 year old guy and I find myself in a similiar situation. I've always been anxious with women and find it hard to keep my cool. I just began reading a book though, and from reading the first few chapters alone, I view the world in a completely different perspective and my anxiety has actually improved. At work last week I applied some of the principles the book taught me, and I was so surprised at how effective they were. Next thing I know, I have a 22 year old girl flirting with me, complimenting my physique and asking if I'm single etc. It was surreal.

I urge you, read this book - https://www.amazon.com/Manual-What-Women-Want-Give/dp/1456494554 - it's not a PUA book of any sorts. Read all of the discussion on Amazon, it's pretty good and insightful. I promise, this'll at least get you closer to your goal.

Sounds to me like you need to understand gender dynamics better and not take women at face value when they talk about what they desire in men. Good luck.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Rational-Male-Rollo-Tomassi/dp/1492777862

Don't. Just show up; she'll be there. If she's not text her and tell her you're there already. If she says "I didn't think you were coming because you didn't confirm" say something like "of course I'm gonna come, I'm a man of my word." Most guys text before dates and it makes them weak and insecure "just making sure I'm good enough for you to still want to come.", if you don't text it'll set you apart from other guys and will make you seem confident. If you have a definite date, time and place; that's all you need. I have a Tinder date setup for tomorrow 7:30 in OB (San Diego). After I setup the date I said I was busy (I did get busy at work), but looking forward to meeting her tomorrow; that's it. I'm not gonna call to confirm.


Good luck my friend.

Also, read this book:

https://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Man-Corey-Wayne/dp/1411673360

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48 Laws of Power would be a great starting point.

You may also find some value in the likes of The Game for learning charisma and attractiveness. There's also a [pretty incredible TV series](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pickup_Artist_(TV_series) about the same topic. This scene is/was full of douchebags of course, but there are lessons here to be learned.

What Every Body is Saying for mastery of body language. This WILL change the way you interact with others, as you start to read what they are doing as they do it and respond accordingly.

The granddaddy of persuasion is Influence. I am reading this for the third time right now and it is just packed with powerful tools you can use in business and in life.

Oh it should go without saying that How To Win Friends and Influence People is essential reading for any entrepreneur. I use lessons I learned from this book every time I deal with an unhappy client or contractor.