Reddit mentions: The best embroidery supplies

We found 126 Reddit comments discussing the best embroidery supplies. We ran sentiment analysis on each of these comments to determine how redditors feel about different products. We found 82 products and ranked them based on the amount of positive reactions they received. Here are the top 20.

11. Hoop-La 14401.004 Embroidery Hoop, 4-Inch ( Colors may vary )

    Features:
  • Comes 1 hoop per pack
  • Size: 4 Inch
Hoop-La 14401.004 Embroidery Hoop, 4-Inch ( Colors may vary )
Specs:
Height0.5 Inches
Length4.5 Inches
Weight0.02 Pounds
Width4.5 Inches
Size4-Inch
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🎓 Reddit experts on embroidery supplies

The comments and opinions expressed on this page are written exclusively by redditors. To provide you with the most relevant data, we sourced opinions from the most knowledgeable Reddit users based the total number of upvotes and downvotes received across comments on subreddits where embroidery supplies are discussed. For your reference and for the sake of transparency, here are the specialists whose opinions mattered the most in our ranking.
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Top Reddit comments about Embroidery Supplies:

u/gingeremily · 2 pointsr/Embroidery

FYI: I sent you lots of amazon links as I am not sure where you live or if you have access to craft stores such as Hobby Lobby or Joann Fabrics. I know for certain that I have seen most of these items cheaper at the store than what I could find online.

  1. Embroidery scissors. The good ones (I.e. generally not ones that come in sewing kits) are incredibly sharp and a must. They are used exclusively for cutting embroidery floss. They make some really pretty ones that come in all sorts of colors and patterns.
  2. A hoop or two. I personally prefer the plastic ones as they are a bit more durable and good for multiple projects. I also don't typically display my finished work inside the hoop. If she plans on making wall hangings, I would go with the wooden ones. They are typically a bit cheaper when you buy them at a craft store (I believe I have seen them from between 1-3 USD.) They have a nicer finished look and isn't that big of a deal to buy a new one when you start on your next project. I would buy her two of the wooden ones in two different sizes (a 4 inch and 6 inch one)
  3. a box for embroidery thread. this one on Amazon that I listed is nice since it also contains the bobbins as well. These boxes usually cost about 3 USD at the craft store and are great for holding all of your different colors of embroidery floss. they often have one larger compartment which is perfectly sized to hold needles and the embroidery scissors as well. The floss bobbins are great at keeping everything organized in the box as well.
  4. about a yard of fabric. Muslin is generally pretty cheap. For a beginner, I might also suggest Aida cloth. It it woven in a way that there is a "grid" in the cloth which makes it easier to make straight lines. It is typically used for Cross Stitch but can be used for embroidery as well. The cloth is more expensive that the muslin, and I personally don't prefer the finished look of the fabric, but it makes it easy to make straight lines and practice stitches. Someone on here also mentioned buying Fabric quarters which is a great idea. They come in a whole bunch of designs, run around 2 USD a piece, and work pretty well for embroidery.
  5. Needles. You don't need the golden eye ones like I have listed here. Just make sure that the package says it's for embroidery as the of the needle varies depending on the type.
  6. Now here's the hardest part of the whole thing: Embroidery floss. Most stores offer DMC brand cotton floss by the skein for about 0.48 USD. The problem is that there are literally hundreds of different colors and picking out just a few might be a bit difficult. The sets that DMC does sell are a bit pricey and aren't often set up to give you a beginner's set of colors. You could however buy an off brand set of embroidery floss that does come in a nice variety of colors and is cheaper. However, I have found that a lot of these packs have low quality thread. It often can look dull when compared to DMC brand floss. (look how Satin-y this Flower looks with the more expensive floss!) I have also heard of some people say that the colors can run when they get washed. All that said, these packs are inexpensive and great for someone just starting with embroidery as there are so many colors to choose from. Its great when you are practicing or are not 100% sure of what you are going to make yet.
  7. transfer pen: I bought a set of those Frixion Pens that someone else mentioned in this post and I love them. They are a bit pricey. I believe that I bought my set at Target for 6 bucks. It came with 5 different colors including pink and silver which work great on dark colored fabrics. These pens are used to plan out your design on your fabric before you embroider. These pens are special in that they disappear completely with heat (such as an iron). If you don't want to go that route, they also make Water soluble markers which serve the same purpose. They don't work quite as well in my opinion as they tend to erase themselves after a few hours/days. They have the advantage of being inexpensive and work fine for small projects.

    I hope that all of this helps. Good luck on the shopping. I know that whatever you end up getting her she will love.
u/JDevinEmbroidery · 2 pointsr/Embroidery

I sent them through a chat, but I’ll resend them this way...
I would get the floss at Johanns, they also sell cute kits. As far as the rest of the supplies I’d go with Amazon because of your time limits. Look for needles by John James in a variety pack sized 5-9, fabric, look for I-Nee cotton, and hoops by Morgan. Amazon also has great light boxes for transferring patterns....
https://www.amazon.com/John-James-Needle-30-Assorted/dp/B001VJNOV6/ref=mp_s_a_1_17?keywords=john+james+needles&qid=1564833113&s=gateway&sprefix=john+j&sr=8-17

https://www.amazon.com/iNee-Cotton-Fabric-Embroidery-60-inch/dp/B07F171ZJY/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?keywords=cotton+fabric+by+the+yard+embroidery&qid=1564833223&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

These are great pens for transferring patterns and drawing designs onto fabric
https://www.amazon.com/Threaders-Erasable-Fabric-Pens-3pk-Black/dp/B072QDSB2G/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=threaders+erasable+fabric+pens&qid=1564833299&s=gateway&sprefix=threaders+era&sr=8-3

Hoops
https://www.amazon.com/Morgan-Products-Stand-Combo-Hoops/dp/B000YZ3YIQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?keywords=morgan+hoop&qid=1564833394&s=gateway&sprefix=morgan+hoop&sr=8-4
Or
https://www.amazon.com/Morgan-Quality-Products-Embroidery-Interlocking/dp/B07B7C9QWQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_13?keywords=morgan+hoop&qid=1564833481&s=gateway&sprefix=morgan+hoop&sr=8-13
For future reference I get most of my supplies from 123stitch.com or embroidery.com
Great fabric can be found off Etsy
Shops I like on Etsy for linen
CloudCraftShop Robert Kaufman Essex Linen Fat Quarter Bundle, Naturals
BidouillArtStock Linen embroidery fabric coupon
FineStitchStudio Embroidery Linen 'Graziano' - Fat quarter

Etsy has good kits,
https:\namastehandembroidery.com has great kits as well. I personally love thread painting. If that’s something you think she’d like to try, go with anything from
https://trishbembroidery.com or any of her books!
Also
https://berlinembroidery.com/product-category/hand-embroidery-kits/needle-painting-kits/

u/bibite · 1 pointr/CrossStitch

Not sure how much you're willing to spend, but here's a few ideas based on you saying that you doubt she would want a kit.

Thread

I would get a bundle so she at least has different colors to get started right away:

25 colors - $8

or

100 colors = $25


Cloth (Aida)
These are sold in different colors, and various count (holes per inch). For a beginner, I'd probably go with a 14 count in a beige or white (easy to see the holes). Just linking an example here, feel free to buy whatever.

12 x 14 inches cloth 14 count - $3
Go nuts if you want, pick a few colors, whatever fits your budget.


Needles
I use what I have on hand, something like this.

Varierty Pack - $4

Kit
So I know you said no kit, but she needs to learn somehow. Is she handy with youtube? Google search to teach herself? Maybe you should get a beginner kit too.

Kit - $6

Hoop

Simple hoop set of 4 - $8

or

Q-snap - $11

Pattern
You might want to consider getting her a pattern. You know her well? What is she into? There's some free patterns out there, or paid ones. I would get a free or buy one and print it for her so it's all ready with your gift.

Just one example, pick something that suits her, but not too many colors and too complicated to start with
Example - $3

Learning Book
No real advice to offer, but would she read a book if you bought something, or will she go on the internet to learn?

Book sample - $7


Keep in mind that I linked random things for examples, but if you're into it, use these as basis for your own research. You know her best, and what your budget is. I think this is a super sweet gift, best of luck.

u/toohotformariokart · 3 pointsr/somethingimade

Not OP but I'm happy to answer some of these questions for you.

Start by getting a hoop and some embroidery floss and then practice stitches on any scrap fabric you're able to get your hands on. You can get supplies online, at a local craft store or (most likely) your local walmart type store.

/r/embroidery is full of advice and sources including this one which has great video tutorials of a lot of stitches. There are tons of other tutorials on Youtube so you can always just search youtube for a specific stitch you're interested in. And many of these lovely stitches aren't necessarily as difficult as you'd expect at first sight. For example the spider web is very common and much more fun and simple than many people first expect. If a tutorial isn't making something clear there is always another on the magnificent Internet.

You can also find embroidery patterns online. I've seen free vintage ones around and I know there are some for sale on etsy as well as websites like this one. To start I'd recommend flowers, letters, or anything else that comes in a package pattern but allows you to try one small piece at a time.

But really just get the materials and mess around. Its tons of fun.

u/snugglemybutt · 1 pointr/BipolarReddit

I highly encourage learning to cross stitch! It's so so easy and has been the most therapeutic thing for me. And there are literally endless options of things to create. I started a year ago after putting the stuff on an amazon wish list and got it for Christmas last year and it's seriously the best thing I've ever done. I had absolutely no interests or hobbies that stuck with me until I tried this.

It's also a very inexpensive hobby. Here are the things I put on my Amazon list, just for reference if you or anyone else needed it:

Set of 4 different sized wooden hoops- $11.99 Plastic ones may be easier for some people, I prefer wooden because they're more my style for framing.

Aida 14ct Cloth 12x18- $3.55 14ct Aida is easiest to work with for beginners. The size of this is good for practicing on, get a couple so you can use the other for your first project. You can also purchase large rolls of it when you start becoming obsessed with it. They also come in lots of different colors and easy to dye yourself.

Set of 150 different colored skeins of DMC floss- $15.98 This is a great amount to start off with. It'll last you a long time, and if you ever need more or want new colors, they are very inexpensive from any craft store and Walmart. Usually around $0.25-$0.50. FYI floss splits apart into 6 tiny strings. Start off using only 2-3 strands
Do all 6 and you're gonna have a bad time.

Needles!- $3.49 Can't stitch without needles!

Bobbins and a thread organizer- $6.49 You will need this. I waited too long to get one and ended up have to wind up hundreds of tangled skeins and it took HOURS. Do it before you start practicing. Also write the thread color number on the top of each bobbin with permanent marker. When you use patterns they will be based off the color numbers.

Julie Jackson's subversive cross stitch book- $12.99 If you like those snarky offensive cross stitchings, this is the best book for it. It's also an amazing beginners guide into cross stitching. It has brief instructions on how to start and very simple but adorably offensive patterns. You can also get other books or use YouTube to find instructions on how to get started. I'd also like to suggest going to etsy for patterns. They're pretty cheap and there's endless options.

So about $55 to get started plus shipping, but it'll last you a long time and could be used on many different projects and you won't spend nearly as much when you do need something else.


I realized I over did it with this post but I'm passionate about cross stitching as it's helped me so much to slow my mind down and to have something good and fun to focus on that doesn't take much out of me. If you want to see some of mine, they're floating around in my post history.

u/YerTallNuff · 1 pointr/Random_Acts_Of_Amazon

I saw down lower that she likes eevee and pikachu. If she is crafty or would like to try cross stitch, on Etsy I found this adorable easy Eevee cross stitch pattern for only $2. You'd need to also get a hoop (Heres a set of hoops for $5, so if she likes it she could do all sorts of sizes later), some Aida fabric ($5), and one embroidery floss skein of each color. You can find skeins for like $0.99 or less in stores like Michaels. It's only $0.49 at Walmart, but Walmart carries only a few limited colors. It would be good for black and white thread. It's a small pattern so it would only need one of each color (pattern would tell her each color), and it doesn't look like there are more than 5 colors. Over all this would be less than $20. And if she ends up liking cross stitching, then she already will have the hoops and some extra fabric. So future projects would really only be the cost of the embroidery floss skeins, and maybe the pattern, if she buys one. But there are also lots of free patterns online, and some free websites that let you put in a jpeg and convert it into a pattern.

​

Edit to add-Since Birthday is so close to Christmas, one half could be a Christmas gift, and the other a Birthday gift. It may be less than $20, but I have certainly been in very tight money situations where $20 is way more than I could spend.

u/passion4film · 5 pointsr/CrossStitch

I switched my current project from a hole-punched bit of cardboard over to this last week and I will never. go. back! It’s so much easier to take the floss on and off the little spokes/foam than it is to unknot/re-knot the bunches! It’s soooooo much faster to get more floss or switch colors now!

They have them on Amazon (here!) but they are cheaper on Wish.com, where I discovered and purchased mine! It took about 3 weeks to receive; for those unfamiliar, items on Wish are usually coming from China/overseas. I only bought one at first, to try it out, but I have a second on its way to me right now from Wish. Search for “floss organizer” to find a bunch of options.

Like I said - I love it! I’d say the only downside is that there are only spots for 30 colors per unit, and the spots don’t hold that much thread. The entirety of my current project - from a large but non-full-coverage kit - fit on here with me doubling up on a few colors that aren’t too heavily used/didn’t come with a lot of floss. This may not be that practical if you’re working on something with more than 30 or so colors, or lots of floss per color.

The green felt areas of the unit are for pre-threading needles, if you’d like. They stick into those little spots and stick up, ready to grab. I won’t be using that feature.

The unit came with four double-sided inserts (they slide in) for writing the symbols/numbers on. I photocopied these to make many more, and I also scanned them to have more as a printable file. You could probably also use White-Out carefully to reuse the inserts.

u/black_eyed_susan · 10 pointsr/Embroidery

This was my first ever embroider piece based off of this pattern/kit.

I've been cross-stitching for a couple of years and wanted to take my skills to the next level. It was a thank you gift for some friends who like minimalism, and millennial pink.

I switched up the basket color to be pink and made up a sort of basketweave stitch as well to give the basket more life.I wanted to have fun with the framing so they'd feel like they were hanging a plant on their wall. They loved it, and I am happy with it!

u/courncakey · 1 pointr/Embroidery

I'm glad you like it!! I just started making these and they are very fun. They're small as well so they're quick to embroider too for a newbie like me who's just learning. I love it.

Here's the mini hoop frames:

DIY Mini Embroidery Hoop Frame - Miniature Embroidery Hoops - DIY Tiny Hoop Kit - Mini Hoop Frame -Diy Necklace Tiny (12pcs differents size) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077XBTP6J/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_Ztb8Bb3SS9S7X

You can also get these at hobby lobby but they didn't have the convenient wood backing to cover the messiness of the fabric that pokes out on the back.

I made the embroidered part in a normal hoop first, and I just did maybe a millimeter or so larger than the opening of the mini hoop so it would all fit in there.


Then I removed it from the regular hoop pressed the design into the mini hoop. After that I cut the excess and then hot glued it into place. It comes with a wood backing so I hot glued that over the back to make it look clean on the back.


Otherwise I just tied twine string to it folded so it's two strings and knotted it about an inch apart throughout the chain to give make it a little thicker and more interesting.


Lastly, I used the excess string from tying it to the pendant to put on the feather charms, which I glued the string flat to the back so they would lay at the bottom of the pendant like they do.

u/Cuddlemetocomfort · 1 pointr/Embroidery

Depends on the size of hoop preference. Amazon has a good selection like this [https://www.amazon.com/Small-Wooden-Embroidery-Pieces-Darice/dp/B01LWCF3JX/ref=pd_ybh_a_15?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=88PP8FG23NSS9BDJT99R](12-count 3 inch hoop), then create for less has [https://www.createforless.com/Darice-Wood-Embroidery-Hoop-6-in/pid145339.aspx](a good selcetion like these). I'm sure you can find some in there with what you need.

As for pricing, I think you should look at other creators like in instagram and see how they charge. I say, price it as how you see it fit. I think people who do not do handmade work and know how much work and love is put in each piece are the ones who complain about how much these handmade things cost. Do not undervalue your work, if one complains, easily explain your reasoning why you've priced it as it is. :)

u/fembecca · 1 pointr/Random_Acts_Of_Amazon

I recommend Trevor Noah's Born a Crime. I won't tell you much about the plot, but he manages to tell his own dark childhood history in such a way that you may be horrified, but you will also laugh your ass off. It's fantastic, and one of the best non-fiction books I've read in a long time.

I'd like these hoops if I win. Thanks for the contest!

u/ali_rose · 2 pointsr/Embroidery

Thank you! I had no idea what to do with an oval hoop at first, then I began the first pine tree and thought 'What the hell did I just decide to do..." I'm just glad it's turning out well. I'm incedibly happy with how the trees turned out and I'm really wanting to do a set of hoops with just unique trees.
On the hoop, it was super affordable. It actually came in a group of 4 hoops of different sizes. It isn't actual wood but is a plastic rubber that fits really snugly over a plastic hoop. I've only just started doing embroidery, so I didn't want to buy anything terribly expensive yet. This is just from Amazon, link here -

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CV88X4G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_AqTtDbY6D1RWY

I know there are frames on Etsy you can buy to place a finished hoop in that look great too.

Also, auburnhoops.co have some really beautiful hoops. I haven't tried them yet since the hoops are pretty pricy, but I'm definitely considering it.

u/waffle_stain · 5 pointsr/CrossStitch

I just got into cross-stich and I got this kit. For the price and what you get, you won't beat it at any craft store anyway. I also got the Subversive Cross Stitch book linked below. It is super fun! Etsy has great patterns and Amazon even has some too. Just depends on what you are interested in making.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B071HBH836/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

u/UDontWinFrendsWSalad · 1 pointr/Embroidery

Here is the Etsy link. This is my second kit from her, such lovely designs and the kits are beautiful as well, if you need any gift ideas!

Edit: Wanted to add that the hoop is from a set I got on Amazon .

u/lamborb · 1 pointr/StardewValley

there’s also pretty cheap and good quality starter kits on amazon! i got this one and it was great! plus prime shipping if you have prime!

u/gengardelrey · 2 pointsr/CrossStitch

Thank you so much! It's 100% 11 count each stitch is 2 threads. This is the kit I used

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07B8M2DVV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

But i think it'll be sticking to 14ct in the future! thank you for your kind words though! It's really appreciated haha.

u/ashleyheather00 · 9 pointsr/CrossStitch

Of course! I purchased them from Amazon (https://amzn.to/2DrYf9g). They’re actually a flexible rubber but have surprisingly good quality and a nice finished look to them.

u/-Bandersnatch- · 17 pointsr/lgbt

I bought a mini embroidery hoop on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FV600ZM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I used the shape to get an idea of the size, and then drew the fist on a piece of linen - put that in a larger embroidery hoop that was easier to work with, and then just used different color threads for the outline and inside. Then I took it out of the big hoop, cut it to fit the small one and glued it all together.

For something so small it was more time-consuming than I thought, but also probably because I'm a beginner. I think it took about 6 hours, but it was nice because its relaxing and I can listen to podcasts while working on it :D

u/Bluepie19 · 1 pointr/GirlGamers

If you tell me which pattern you are getting I can give you specifics. But in general all you need is: the cloth to stitch on (common brands are aida and evenweave, and as a beginner you will want to use aida), color thread (called floss, there are several brands like DMC and Anchor), a tapestry needle (it's more blunt than a regular needle), and something to hold your project while you work (typically people use a hoop but I like the q-snap better since it's a square instead of a circle).

u/jp-golf · 1 pointr/Embroidery

That's not a bad idea. I think I'll end up trying to turn a piece of it into a patch and maybe attach it to a small pillow as you suggested.

Does a kit like this have everything I'd need to get started?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071HBH836

On some of the reviews it seemed like the cotton fabric that is included is not great for patches. Do you know what cotton fabric would be best to get for a patch?

u/7856342 · 3 pointsr/Embroidery

I usually buy the plain wooden ones. I find them easy to work with and you can paint them whatever color you want! These kinds of hoops have a pretty, antique wood look but they're not real wood, and I haven't worked with them so I can't say if they're comfortable to stitch in.

u/milky923 · 2 pointsr/Embroidery

Thank you so so much! And thank you for the follow as well!!

The hoop belonged to my mom from many years ago & she gave it to me. I found something similar on Amazon though! https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B072R6JZ5F/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1506485143&sr=8-9&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=embroidery+hoop&dpPl=1&dpID=51Ip830ZYgL&ref=plSrch

u/plasticblanket · 12 pointsr/CrossStitch

I just bought some on Amazon since I was in a time pinch, but am really happy with them! They're faux rubber wood. I bought these ones.

u/laurenrawrface · 3 pointsr/CrossStitch

So there's a few options for ornaments.
There's a more versatile [plastic hoops](
http://amzn.to/2fLvoyB) that you can glue things to, like the ribbon or rope in the photos. Or you can do a more simple wooden hoop with ribbon.
Either way, just searching for a 3 inch cross stitch hoop works pretty well. There are also plastic hoops like this you can find.

u/dredre543 · 1 pointr/CrossStitch

I just finished this kit last week! Luckily the ink comes out fairly easy on the pattern, the color graphs and red "Gangsta" on the top left are a bit harder, but I scrubbed it with mild laundry soap and a small brush and it came out. Just mind the edges because the edge stitching started to come undone on one corner after scrubbing. Unfortunately, the frame it came with is far too small.
I ordered these on Amazon and one of the circles, just barely fits the pattern and is a nicer finish.
4 Pcs Embroidery Hoops Set Cross... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CV88X4G?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf

u/CompanionOfATimeLord · 9 pointsr/Embroidery

Here you go 😊

Caydo 4 Pieces Embroidery Hoops Cross Stitch Hoop Imitated Wood Embroidery Circle and Oval Set for Art Craft Sewing and Hanging https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G9187BJ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_cP1jDbN2RH6SN

u/emanbu · 1 pointr/CrossStitch

It came with this set: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07B8M2DVV/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_dp_1.
But I have seen many like it on wish cheaper.

u/bluemooniris314 · 12 pointsr/Embroidery

I bought this set from Amazon. It was a bit difficult getting the alignment right with the oval when putting it together (I didn't stitch it in this hoop) but it does hold the fabric nice and taut!

u/sockmonkeyboxinglove · 1 pointr/CrossStitch

Do you mean actual hoops to hold the finished piece, or the jump ring that hangs it on the necklace? Amazon carries 1.5" rounds, and I also saw some 3 inch rounds as well. That said, you might want to consider just mounting the finished piece on a bezel with a glass cabochon on top.

u/TheFamilyArtisan · 1 pointr/Embroidery

Thank you so much! I got these hoops in Amazon, here's the link https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072R6JZ5F

u/pegasus_x · 2 pointsr/CrossStitch

Thanks!! I got the hoop from DMC online but they don't appear to sell them anymore. These appear to be identical though:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072R6JZ5F/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_n6BPzbSVW8X99

u/Oscar1216 · 1 pointr/Embroidery

Bulk Buy: Darice DIY Crafts Wooden Embroidery Hoops Round 4 inches (6-Pack) 39012 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KNB58QW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_3G.FDbZ6J7BH4

I’m 98% sure these were the ones I got

u/Cupcakeslie · 3 pointsr/Embroidery

I got them on amazon! They are deceptive though, the outside is rubber. So you cannot do a project in it, but you can put a finished one in it. Hoops!

u/thrilled32 · 2 pointsr/Embroidery

They can be purchased on Amazon

They have a variety of shapes and sizes if you browse a little

u/sadsunfish · 1 pointr/Embroidery

I’m not sure if this is allowed by the rules here but here is the first link I found of them - hoops