Reddit mentions of A Dance with Dragons (A Song of Ice and Fire)

CAUTION! SPOILERS FROM A DANCE WITH DRAGONS AHEAD. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK:

Here is textual evidence and hints at Connington's sexual orientation. Much of it is expressed through his guilt of how he felt he failed Rhaegar, and through holding on to memories of Rhaegar. Note that asterisk [](/s "") denote italicized text which does not work within spoiler tags. GRRM uses this to specifically denote thoughts of the POV character (though I did not correct this with all the below text). Please appreciate the limited amount I am giving you, since almost the entire chapter is filled with thoughts of Rhaegar, and I do not want to insert the entire chapter. Read at your own risk-major ADWD spoilers contained within!:

[ADWD-Tyrion](/s ""Lord Connington was the prince’s dearest friend, was he not?”
Young Griff pushed a lock of blue hair out of his eyes. “They were squires together at King’s Landing.”
“A true friend, our Lord Connington. He must be, to remain so fiercely loyal to the grandson of the king who took his lands and titles and sent him into exile. A pity about that."")



[ADWD-Connington](/s "Yet when they parted, Jon Connington did not go to the sept. Instead his steps led him up to the roof of the east tower, the tallest at Griffin’s Roost. As he climbed he remembered past ascents—a hundred with his lord father, who liked to stand and look out over woods and crags and sea and know that all he saw belonged to House Connington, and one (only one!) with Rhaegar Targaryen. Prince Rhaegar was returning from Dorne, and he and his escort had lingered here a fortnight. He was so young then, and I was younger. Boys, the both of us. At the welcoming feast, the prince had taken up his silver-stringed harp and played for them. A song of love and doom, Jon Connington recalled, and every woman in the hall was weeping when he put down the harp. Not the men, of course. Particularly not his own father, whose only love was land.")

[ADWD-Connington](/s ""Your father’s lands are beautiful,” Prince Rhaegar had said, standing right where Jon was standing now. And the boy he’d been had replied, “One day they will all be mine.” As if that could impress a prince who was heir to the entire realm, from the Arbor to the Wall.
Griffin’s Roost had been his, eventually, if only for a few short years. From here, Jon Connington had ruled broad lands extending many leagues to the west, north, and south, just as his father and his father’s father had before him. But his father and his father’s father had never lost their lands. He had. I rose too high, loved too hard, dared too much. I tried to grasp a star, overreached, and fell. ...")

[ADWD-Connington](/s "He was young and full of pride. How not? King Aerys had named him Hand and given him an army, and he meant to prove himself worthy of that trust, of Rhaegar’s love. He would slay the rebel lord himself and carve a place out for himself in all the histories of the Seven Kingdoms. ...")

[Connington](/s "For years afterward, Jon Connington told himself that he was not to blame, that he had done all that any man could do. His soldiers searched every hole and hovel, he offered pardons and rewards, he took hostages and hung them in crow cages and swore that they would have neither food nor drink until Robert was delivered to him. All to no avail. “Tywin Lannister himself could have done no more,” he had insisted one night to Blackheart, during his first year of exile.")

[Connington](/s "“There is where you’re wrong,” Myles Toyne had replied. “Lord Tywin would not have bothered with a search. He would have burned that town and every living creature in it. Men and boys, babes at the breast, noble knights and holy septons, pigs and whores, rats and rebels, he would have burned them all. When the fires guttered out and only ash and cinders remained, he would have sent his men in to find the bones of Robert Baratheon. Later, when Stark and Tully turned up with their host, he would have offered pardons to the both of them, and they would have accepted and turned for home with their tails between their legs.”")

[Connington](/s "He was not wrong, Jon Connington reflected, leaning on the battlements of his forebears. I wanted the glory of slaying Robert in single combat, and I did not want the name of butcher. So Robert escaped me and cut down Rhaegar on the Trident*. “I failed the father,” he said, “but I will not fail the son.”")



[Connington](/s "A bride for our bright prince. Jon Connington remembered Prince Rhaegar’s wedding all too well. Elia was never worthy of him. She was frail and sickly from the first, and childbirth only left her weaker.")

_

[ADWD-Kevan Lannister](/s "Ser Kevan wished that he could share his certainty. He had known Jon Connington, slightly—a proud youth, the most headstrong of the gaggle of young lordlings who had gathered around Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, competing for his royal favor. Arrogant, but able and energetic.")

A key thing to remember when reading from Jon Connington's POV is that he knows who he is. He is not going to come out and explicitly think "I am gay for Rhaegar." He knows he loves Rhaegar, and has known since he was a young squire. He does not need to reaffirm it to us as readers because we are simply getting the privilege to get into his head. This is part of what makes GRRM a fantastic writer. Despite what we may want to be told explicitly, he simply refuses to make the character act, well, out of character. JonCon knows who he is, what he is. He does not need to tell himself. Just like all of those times we want someone to go deeper into the Winterfell crypts, we have to think "why the hell would they?"

And that is all I will give you. There is more, to be certain, but if you wish to have the full experience please buy A Dance With Dragons and read it. I recommend e-books if you are a very big fan. That way you can, as I do, search through them on your computer when you wish to find evidence for a pet theory or discussion.

Almost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiIM8L1oWmM

Thanks for the contest!

And I choose this.

Because none of the others include it, either?

A Dance with Dragons

I would have to say that Shogun by James Clavell is my all time favorite - a really thick book and a little hard to get into (I almost died of boredom trying to get through the first chapter), but if you stick with it, it gets MUCH better. I've read it several times. It is a fascinating glimpse into historic Japan (circa 1600s).

If I win, I only have one book on my WL right now - A Dance with Dragons - A Song of Ice and Fire, Book 5. I'm on book 3 in the series and it is GREAT!!!! I would LOVE to get this!!

Thank you so much for the contest! Hope you like My Favorite Book!

> My favorite genres include science fiction and fantasy.

I'd highly recommend the "A Song Of Ice And Fire" series if you haven't already read it... it's an incredible series. That box set I linked has the first four books, and here's the fifth.

If you've already read it, I'd also recommend "The Wheel Of Time" series by Robert Jordan, especially since the last book is due out next year.

And the 5th book costs as much as the other 4 combined... whee!

I bought all five last week *twiddle*

edit: I changed this, sorry. Just remembered.

Maybe this? I finished the fourth one today, and I'm in love with this series, but someone else has the fifth out of the library, and it's overdue already.

http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Fire-Book/dp/0553801473/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321515031&sr=1-1

Have you tried Amazon reviews?

http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Fire-Book/dp/0553801473/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319141391&sr=8-1

a;sldk I would love the Fire. First of all, it seems really magical to have thousands of books at my disposal--that's seriously something that I can't even imagine, I want it so much. I always have at least one book in my purse, and it's such a struggle for me to pick which one(s) to put in there--with a Kindle I wouldn't have that struggle. I want the Fire rather than one of the less expensive kindles because I've never really had a fancy technological thing--I mean, my cell phone doesn't even connect to the internet hahaha. I'm actually saving up for a Fire right now because I just can't imagine anything cooler than a magic box full of books and internet.

I don't know what else to say about it--I know whoever wins it is going to cherish this cool gift, and I know if it gets sent my way I'll use it every day and take it everywhere. Thanks for the contest, you magnificent number!

If I win, I'd love any of the ebooks on books or Under $6 wishlists. If I'm really dreaming big, this would be the one I'd ask for--I'm so annoyed that he didn't have any Dany or Tyrion chapters in AFFC hahaha, and I need to know what happens to my two favorite characters!

Thanks for the info. I'll get it, and then get Witcher 2. The books sound interesting, but I'm getting A Dance of Dragons today, so that's the only reading I'm gonna be doing for a while!

http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Fire-Book/product-reviews/0553801473/ref=cm_cr_pr_top_helpful?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0

I'm hard-pressed to find reviews that have kindle complaints.

There are tons of people on GoodRead that were reviewing the books before they even came out, which explains the higher score.

Well i am missing A Dance with Dragons i ordered a box set with books 1-4 and even though they are paperback and this one isn't i want to know i have it. Weird eh? I'd like some butterbeer!

And don't go on the reddits until you've finished (if you try, which I totally reccommend; I don't like epic fantasy either and I love the books). The reddits all have spoilers, even /r/gameofthrones.

If you're not into the whole genre, start by watching the show. By the end of the second episode if you're not at least interested in how it goes on, then you're soulless and probably an Other (it's a GoT thing). After the first season, when you need to know more, READ THE BOOKS. DO NOT WATCH THE SECOND SEASON. I've found that it's easier to watch the second season after reading the books, since there is some deviation in the show.

Anyway, after you finish 'A Game of Thrones', 'A Clash of Kings', 'A Storm of Swords', 'A Feast for Crows', and 'A Dance with Dragons', you will finally be ready to watch the second season, and wait with baited breath for 'The Winds of Winter' (warning: links to Wikipedia, which has spoilers for the first five books and beyond), and Season 3 of HBO's Game of Thrones.

And now that I've gone to all the trouble to outline your next month of time, you had better go through with it. Believe me, I'll follow up.

Currently on my list and in no way expected to last out the month, much less the summer:

Stiff: The Curious lives of Human Cadavers by Mary Roach. This is one of the toughest books I've ever read, barring anything by Dickens. One chapter on something like crash test dummies or organ donors will be OK, then I read two pages of the history of human head transplants involving some French Fuck who cut dog's heads off and sewed them onto other dogs and I've got to put it down for a few hours.

Bonk: the Curious Coupling of Science and Sex, also by Mrs. Roach. I certainly hope to find this more enjoyable than the one about cadavers.

And finally, A Dance with Dragons, book 5 of George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones series. Which, if the first four are any indication, promises to be a heady mix of both of the first two books on the list.

http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Fire-Book/dp/0553801473

$25

$10

$5

I would say a big $20 item because those are rare.
don't go talking too loud you'll cause a landslide, Mr. Jones" for reddit raffle.

I am going to assume the unicorn style rarity that is an actual night of at home ME time. No spouse, no kiddos. A quiet house.

On the rare occasion that I do this, I usually start by procuring food that I don't have to slave over first. Once I am settled in at home, I am going to need a good book. A Dance With Dragons would work quite well as I am fast approaching the end of this series and there is nothing worse than a cliffhanger ending and no desire to go get the next title. At some point in the evening a hot bubble bath would be required. Part of the key to a wonderful bath is tasty snacks, also a glorious aspect of me-time is not having to share a single bite. Mine, mine, mine. After the bath, it would be time to change into a soft t-shirt and a pair of my hubby's flannel pajama bottoms. To cap the night off, I may actually take the time to paint my nails. I don't do it often, but I love the look when I do. That would be a bit over your budget, but it would perfectly sum up a wonderful night for me.

Thanks for the contest!

If you dropped Game of Thrones only because you knew what was going to happen, you know there are 4 more books in the series so far, right?

[First 4] (http://www.amazon.com/Books-Thrones-Feast-Crows-Swords/dp/0345529057/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1334469763&sr=1-1) and the latest [Dance with Dragons] (http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Fire-Book/dp/0553801473/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1334469812&sr=1-2)

AGOT

ACOK

ASOS

AFFC

ADWD


Only A Dance With Dragons? Huh?

"Well, unfortunately, any kind of exposure indirectly helps ratings. Of course, nothing will boost ratings more than the show itself being good, but the more people that can be attracted to it, the better chance there is of their ratings staying high or (I'm sure) even increasing."

Well, I don't know anyone who would start watching/reading because they saw a direwolf iphone skin, but since your so doggedly determined that keychains are going to sell the show more effectively than something legitimate like word of mouth, I take it that's how you became a fan. You can have that one, I suppose.


"It sounds like you're still stubbornly defending the idea that he "sold out" without offering enough support for that claim. If you can somehow demonstrate that the literary quality sharply decreased after he shared his writing with other types of ventures, I'll believe it."

I understand you're a newbie to the ASoIaF world, and therefore a little late to the party. I've been there for the 8 years of blog posts about the Giants and Wildcards and of him hocking his latest piece of craphenalia in real time. You haven't. I don't get into this "I've been reading since before it was cool, so I'm better than you" rhetoric alot of the old guard seem to - that's silly - but it does give me better insight to the things we are discussing here than someone who just discovered these were books last summer.

I'm not going to sit here and go through with you every piece of merchandise until you are satisfied. In fact, I won't go through any of them with you other than the things I've already mentioned. It is apparent that you can only find your way to HBO.com

Uh, AGoT ACoK ASoS AFfC ADwD

I don't really have the inclination to get too involved in this so I just gave you the Amazon links. There's a star rating near the book titles. These ratings summarize the quality of the product listed. As you can see the first three books of the series have exceptional ratings: 4.5+ stars, but then starting with Feast and continuing through Dance (current) you see these drop down to 3 stars. There's your demonstration. I'm not going to continue to take you by the hand and point to things as obvious as this.


"There's the Cyanide's track record, which is mostly just a bunch of cycling-related games, and it's pretty clear from the post you linked that GRRM declined Cyanide at the time because he basically felt they were too amateur a studio to be able to do a good job on the game. Years later, (years!) this little company is still determined to do it, especially now that they've opened up another studio and hired enough people to pull the game off"

That's pretty bold to pass that off as fact based on the information in the blog post. We'll go ahead and chalk that up in the "good faith" and "benefit of the doubt" column.

"I think AFfC and ADWD should be considered special cases given what it took to write them."

I don't know exactly what you're intending with this, but no. It shouldn't.

A dance of dragons comes out on July 12, 2011!

http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Ice-Fire/dp/0553801473/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303154351&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Fire-Book/dp/0553801473

has been a major help for sure, but I'm burning through it like a black-powder soaked cord so I don't know how long it can keep the demons at bay.

Part 1

> No you didn't

Why do you have this desire for spoonfeeding? Are you a baby?

"With it's active subscribers? Probably not, now with's grand total of subscribers? Of course"

> blah blah ideal, not a minimum threshold.

Ideal = better, something more concrete that will show the opinion of the community with more veracity

the numbers you used = not even close to the minimum threshold , 2k compared to millions? Not even close

> Keep talking at cross purposes, mate.

So you don't disagree? Good, guess that matter is over

> Even if it were right, you haven't established it, which is the bigger issue.

Go to the same site you gave me, witness how many people like the book compared to how few genuinely hate it

Those people I saw talking about ADWD being their favorite were in this exact same sub which is why I remembered it

> Aye, because I'm apparently significantly more honest than you.

As if that's a good thing when you're just admitting you truly behaved like a cunt while calling me one

Hypocrite

> If in the aggregate it's fourth, then it's not consistently second or third, else your usage of 'consistently' is so loose as to lack value.

The numbers you used have no value to actually be called an "aggregrate" because they are small compared to the size of the community, it is as I say ,we would need a bigger sample to say something with more certainty

If anything it only proves ADWD is more well loved than it's hated

> No, they're 9k. Do try to learn what aggregation is. I've said repeatedly it was received worse than the first three, which is demonstrably true.

http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Ice-Fire/product-reviews/0553801473/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_viewopt_srt?sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1

Please tell me you're not implying all the 9k reviews are negative (because they aren't)

You shouldn't be using the 9k as proof, the 9k is only the number of people that commented there and more than 60% thought it was a four or five star book

> Because a) we were talking about those characters specifically, which you conveniently ignore, and b) 2000 pages ought to be sufficient to advance every storyline.

A) You argued there is no development, I showed there is development just not with these characters you mentioned, their time is clearly for later so idk why you are so bothered by it.

B) So you know Martin's master plan now and how he could cut content to shoehorn what you want?

> Yey you proceed to do the exact same to me in your next point. Well done.

It's funny how the same thing could be argued regarding you, doesn't it?

Anyway, mine was clear from the beginning, yours was pretty straightfoward and I interpreted that way

> See above. Also [citation needed]

See above, also [stop wanting me to spoonfeed you when I already did so multiple times]


> Yes it is. This thread has repeatedly demonstrated you don't have any understanding of the term, so I'll hesitate to seek your advice on it.

This was always my point, pray tell how what I did fits in this:

" Moving the goalposts, similar to "shifting sands" and also known as raising the bar, is an informal fallacy in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. That is, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt.The problem with changing the rules of the game is that the meaning of the end result is changed, too"

> Not accepting your undefended claim is not the same as a positive claim to knowledge.

Saying this when I have clearly defended myself with arguments he couldn't counter

Epic

> More words you don't know how to use.

I'm sorry if you don't know the meaning of irony and that I was ironizing you for relying so much on insults like a bothered little child

> Ignoring your insane screed here: yes. Because even if I had done that, that's not anything close to moving the goalposts.

I never said this was moving the goalpost here, aren't you keeping track of this discussion? I said you were butchering my arguments and only that

> Unclear antecedent, please revise. Also, Stannis is a major character and we do see his major movements in ACOK and ASOS chiefly through communications. It can and has been done.

Stannis' is not a POV, he has never been one and never will. He also isn't a major character in the same scale as Dany and Tyrion (unfortunately)

> No. Unlike the autist you've called me, I actually can read between the lines, pal.

You're reading too much into it, that was exactly what I meant

> I didn't call it exaggerated; I called it ill thought-out and irrelevant.

And I already said what you think is irrelevant, it fits the situation

> Sure. I don't, and yes it is.

You can't be serious

>Conveying intent and impressions matters. It quite evidently doesn't to you, though.

My intent was conveyed so no problem there. There is no problem with typos here and there, they're normal

Impressions are irrelevant in the internet because we're just using personas here as evidence by our username, I don't know you, you don't know me, this conversation will have no effect in our personal lives

Weak excuses you just used