#14 in Action & adventure fiction books
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Reddit mentions of A Dance with Dragons (A Song of Ice and Fire, Book 5)
Sentiment score: 9
Reddit mentions: 14
We found 14 Reddit mentions of A Dance with Dragons (A Song of Ice and Fire, Book 5). Here are the top ones.
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Specs:
| Release date | July 2011 |
>It's a risk either way.
You're saying that the risk that someone is lying or woefully mistaken is acceptable. That if one is not provided a promised good or service their only response should be to self-flagellate for believing it would come.
It's okay to mislead the audience. Gotcha.
>My point, however, is that if someone considers it a risk to their reading experience that the series may not be completed, that is a risk they accept when they start reading.
There are risks and there are risks. You specifically mentioned the author dying unexpectedly. That is an acceptable risk. The author losing interest is not an acceptable risk. Him abandoning the project tomorrow after continuously promising its completion would make him an asshole.
>People are blaming GRRM for not getting the experience they expected or were hoping for
THAT HE PROMISED AS LATE AS 3 WEEKS AGO.
>when no such thing was guaranteed
Not guaranteed, just promised over and over and over and over...
>certainly not included in the price they paid
"Don’t miss the thrilling sneak peek of George R. R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Six, The Winds of Winter"
>They did not pay for a complete series. They paid for individual books, priced like individual books.
Most on the understanding that the author had pledged to complete the series.
>transfering the risk regarding their reading experience to the author.
This is the reverse of what actually happened. George has constantly, consistently repeated his promise of a) the books, b) a series of [x] length, and c) a conclusion to the series "no matter what". He created the expectation, not the audience.
>Yet, that is how people are acting when they're saying "I bought the book expecting a whole series".
That is what was explicitly promised to most readers during their purchase. And the promise existed for the remainder regardless of their knowledge.
>Is there anything to suggest GRRM does not intend to finish ASOIAF?
His continual announcements of working on other projects in light of his own admittance that working on other projects stymies his work on ASOIAF.
>Again, on the premise that you would only read completed series
Rejected. That's your premise. Not mine, not /u/lichtbogen's. I already clarified this in my first comment and now you're bringing it back.
>No, he's enticing you to buy it
>>And you can still refuse.
And lying is still wrong. And failing to deliver on a promise is still failure to deliver on a promise.
>Simplifying things, if the expected value - given some means of evaluating it - is positive, then the risk is acceptable. If the expected value is negative, then the risk is unacceptable. That is, in the economical sense.
Then we're not talking about the same thing and your original comment was equivocation or, at best, vague. Clearly this isn't Keynes. An acceptable risk is one external to GRRM's will. An unacceptable one is reliant on GRRM's will.
>When you say that GRRM getting bored is an unacceptable risk (or previously, slowing to snails pace or giving up), it does not seem like you're making an economic judgement. Rather, it seems you're talking morally. You object on an ethical basis to GRRM not putting effort in to complete the book. Is that a fair interpretation?
There's no point in answering this question as you already know the answer from my first comment, judging by the way you continue on.
>In which case, by what moral right do you have to dictate what GRRM should work on?
That of a person to hold another to their given word.
>I never said people should not try to keep their promises. I think they should.
And what should happen to those who willfully fail to do so? Because I highly doubt you'd support any social punishment for it, nor even people crying "bullshit" at every subsequent GRRM promise.
>But I also think people on the internet have no right (or privilege) to demand that someone they don't know, likely will never meet, nor have any other direct dealings with, should write the book they please, when they please.
Not any book. Just the ones they promise to write. And no one is picketing GRRM's house or demanding that he be held in contempt of court. Just maybe, possibly asking if we could collectively consider him what he is: someone who has continuously failed to deliver on a promise that he keeps reiterating.
>Regardless of whether or not that someone has promised to work on that book... which, it appears, he actually is doing, albeit not as fast as we or indeed he himself had hoped.
Not "regardless". This is the issue. I have compared this situation to that of Half-Life 3. Half-Life 3 was never explicitly promised. The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring are explicitly promised. He is not working on them as fast as is warranted.
>Firstly, none of us, individually, made ASOIAF anything.
Quite. That's why I said "we", not "I" or "you". This is why marketing exists. To determine the desires of large groups of people. The largest group of GRRM readers were reading ASOIAF, which is why Wildcards and stand-alone novels stopped being written. Unfortunately, he just pivoted towards more lucrative ASOIAF material.
>Secondly, even if we did collectively make ASOIAF hugely successful, why would that give us any privilege?
See above. It's his bread and butter.
>You, and others, are demanding GRRM do very specific work.
That he promised to do.
>I, on the other hand, am not demanding GRRM do very specific work. I hope he will. I hope he will live up to his promise, for our sake and his own.
A promise means nothing if the only consequence for breaking it is that the people you made it to flog themselves for believing you.
>But I do not fool myself into thinking I am entitled to anything. I have no bought a guarantee. I have not received a binding, precise promise which has been broken.
GRRM incurred a social debt when he repeatedly traded on the promise of TWOW and ADOS. That you personally are unwilling to ever call it due does not eliminate it for everyone else.
>I am merely impatient for another instalment in a series I love; this gives me no privilege, but some discomfort.
Hmm. Due you, perhaps, feel entitled to that feeling of discomfort based on the promises that have been made yet unfulfilled? Might you, perhaps, voice that discomfort - say, on an internet forum?
>Accepting the premise of that statement a moment, can you show me were he reneged on that promise, exactly?
The promise is that he's hard at work on TWOW. The breaking of it is him working on other projects and admitting that these other projects distract him from TWOW.
>The book series has gained him fame and fortune because he is really fucking good at writing.
The social debt refers to those works created after ADWD, including the TV show. Those are what brought him fame and fortune. And he continues to trade on the idea of a finished series to get attention for his other projects. It's why he consistently talks about "working hard" on TWOW and ADOS in every interview about the prequel shows.
>And he will remain really good whether he completes it or not.
Remains to be seen. I'm not a prophet and neither are you. I do know that The Silmarillion is still primarily referred to as "the incomplete encyclopedia of Middle Earth".
>No, actually, I'm not even sure if that's true. Arguably, a lot of his fame and fortune is down to the stuff he had already written being so good it became a sensational TV-series.
Surely nobody invested their eyeballs in the TV series (or continued to do so after it passed the book material) under the distinct impression that further books would come out. "I just want to see how this compares to what George will eventually write" definitely wasn't a major sentiment going into seasons 7 and 8 around here.
>Not once have I heard someone say "yeah, I started reading ASOIAF/watching GOT because GRRM promised to complete the series".
Meaningless. Assuming that's true, the fact that you've never heard an idea only means that you have never heard it. It has negligible effect on the prevalence of the idea. We both know that I could find a non-zero number of people who have expressed it. In fact, that was the very sentiment you attributed to /u/lichtbogen above, so I know you believe some people hold to it.
>Except that people like you keep implying it in threads like this.
No, that was you erroneously.
>As if you started reading the first book because he promised he would finish the damn thing, rather than the first book - on its own - being a really enjoyable read.
If you believe that a significant number of people wouldn't have waved this series off knowing what they'd know now about its publication schedule you're crazy. Plenty of people ask things like "I watched the show, is it worth it to start reading these books even though they aren't finished?" on this very forum. The honest answer is "only if you're okay with a series that won't be finished".
>As if you started reading the first book because he promised he would finish the damn thing
Implicitly everyone did. GRRM has consistently promised a continuation, a book count, and an ending.
>See, this is the entitlement that people need to get over. This absurd idea that GRRM owes them anything.
Not anything. Just what he keeps promising. I'm picturing you next George and every time he says "Winds is coming!" you say "not that you should expect it to based on that statement".
>You're on here, wasting your time writing like I am, so presumably it was all worth it and then some.
More likely we're all idiots.
>But here's the final question: Why is it that I can love the books so much and accept that GRRM will do what he will, when he will, whereas you feel entitled to demand he do what you want, when you want?
Ingrained sycophancy vs. objective skepticism?
This is an incredible contest!! Thanks for your generosity!!
A Dance With Dragons book 5 of ASOIAF. I have the first 4 in paperback. My name is JJ! Well, everyone calls me that, but I'm a Jennifer on paper.
I'm absolutely the right person to ask!
There are 5 books in the series, out of a planned 7:
Fair warning, each book seems to take more and more years to be published. The 5th book came out in 2011 and ends on a huge cliffhanger! There are number of fans who are seriously concerned that the 6th book may never come out, or that it may not come out until the author George R R Martin dies and it is then published by another author.
If you get through these and want more, George RR Martin has also published a short story collection about some tertiary characters called Dunk and Egg in 2015 (A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms), as well as an encyclopedia for the entire history of the world in which that the series takes place (A World of Ice and Fire).
Some fans of the television show therefore may argue that it's not worth reading the books until the series is finished, or ever. I personally recommend them, they add a lot of depth to the show, and are just well-written pieces of prose on their own. The Dunk and Egg collection is also fun. I've not read the encyclopedia yet but I'll get to it some day.
My favorite book!
I have a lot of favorites. But the one I tend to keep going back to time and time again is Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. It's a fictional romance novel. However, it's not like the steamy ones written today. Pride and Prejudice is a classic.
As for the book I'd like if I win, I'd have to choose A Dance with Dragons as I'm just about finished with A Feast for Crows and I dread the long wait of when I might be able to go to the library and check out the latest book in the Song of Ice and Fire series.
Digital goods have none of the manufacturing costs and none of the scarcity of physical goods. They don't have to pay workers at a Barnes and Noble, or a Warehouse, or pay rent for either. There are no shipping and distribution costs. They have no where near a fraction of the costs necessary to produce a physical version of the same. Supply is as close to infinite as you are going to get. The more you sell, the higher your profit margin goes. The costs of editing, marketing, etc are all completed once the book is available. Costs from then on are solely on a per unit basis (extremely low to near nothing), and the more units you sell, the less percent of the unit revenue goes to initial costs, leading to higher profit margins.
I think you miss the point that Amazon does not set the prices on these digital books. The publishers do. And publishers don't want to go extremely digital.
Look at the page for ADwD on Amazon. Below the price.
>Sold by: Random House Digital, Inc.
> This price was set by the publisher
Amazon was, at one point, pricing the digital versions far, far lower. Many major books were 9.99, 7.99, even less.
Unfortunately, the publishers disliked this.
>In April of 2010, 5 of the major publishers (Penguin/Putnam being one of them) instituted what is now called Agency Pricing. Agency pricing has been instituted in US, UK, and Australia (even though some argue it is against the law in Austrialia) Under agency pricing, the publisher controls the price and the retailer is not allowed to discount.
>Under the traditional form of selling, the publisher sold the digital book to the retailer (or store) like Amazon or Barnes and Noble at a discount, often 50% off. The retailer/store would set the price for the readers. For example, if the retail price of a book was $7.99, Amazon would pay the publisher $3.98 for that book and then charge the reader some amount. Some retailers like Amazon or Fictionwise or All Romance eBooks would sell these books at a discount, either a straight percentage off or some amount returned to the purchaser in rebate form.
>Under “Agency Pricing”, the publisher gets 70% of the book’s retail price and the retailer receives 30%.
If Amazon had its way, they'd be driving prices far lower. Amazon is a vertically integrated company in this matter. They are both the distributor to the platform and the platform seller. It is in their best interests to not only drive up maximum sales of ebooks, but to do so via their own store, and thus sell more of their own devices, leading to more book and device sales etc. If they had it their way, the books would be rock bottom priced.
The publishers are trying ridiculously hard to protect their outdated business models and other revenue sources.
>“Publishers do price ebooks a little higher than necessary, because they’re concerned about devaluing people’s perception of books,” humor writer Larry Doyle says. “They’re worried that if they sell the digital editions for too little, they’ll have to lower prices for the paper editions as well, which would undercut their main source of revenue.”
I could go on and on with evidence, but here's the kicker:
Authors themselves want these books priced lower. They see the potential for larger sales in this, as many an economic paper and real life example has shown. To this end, many are starting to self-publish. There are reports of this happening on all scales.
Independent writer becomes first to sell 1 million kindle books
>He saw that many successful authors were charging almost $10 (£6) for a book and decided that he would undercut them – selling his own efforts for 99 cents (60 pence).
>"I’ve been in commission sales all my life, and when I learned Kindle and the other e-book platforms offered a royalty of 35 per cent on books priced at 99 cents, I couldn’t believe it," he said.
>"To most people, 35 cents doesn’t sound like much. To me, it seemed like a license to print money.
At 65% of the revenue, Amazon made a killing on that without having to do anything. Amazon takes around 30% of books over 2.99, but more on books that are less. Other major ebook sellers are offering up to 70% to the author at any price point.
On the other hand, the world's richest author has decided to self-publish ebooks as well.
J.K. Rowling, creator of Harry Potter, still retained the rights to ebook sales of her work, and decided recently that she is going to sell them directly to the ebook sites. This has created quite a stir with her publisher, and a lot of eyes are on this. It is expected she is going to vastly undercut the price models they currently use for Ebooks, and make more money than she would have through the publisher who would have charged more.
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/06/24/what-harry-potter-e-books-mean-for-apple/
This isn't a 'convenience people are willing to pay for'. Traditional uses of that terminology suggests something that costs more but people are willing to pay it. This costs less. Far less. The publishers defend against this saying there is more to the cost than we realize, but in reality these are artificially created costs, costs that can be eliminated when approached with a modern business model. Frankly, what it comes down to is an antiquated business model trying to protect itself. And that never works.
Editors can be hired freelance, designers aren't that necessary. Specifically they refer to book designers i.e. font, layout, paper choices etc. A digital format like .mobi does not layout pages. Or have a font set in stone.. These are all maintained on the fly by the device, and can be changed at a whim.
TL;DR Basically, your reasoning may be why YOU are willing to pay it. But it has nothing to do with the market itself, and why prices are so high. Amazon would gladly drop the prices, as would the authors. It's the middlemen trying to protect their livelihood that keeps the prices artificially high. You can argue all you like, but I can tell you that, having been in the textbooks sales industry myself, I have seen almost exactly the same issues arising. I assure you, Amazon itself would refute your claim that they’re trying to maximize prices. They were forced into it by the major publishers. And there are many, many resources out there from all spectrum of analysis that will tell you that this is all artificial inflation by companies grabbing at straws in order to hang on to their business models. The fact that there is so much press about this very matter is one of many indicators of the truth of the matter.
O.O wowwwwwwww I love this contest. My name is Corinne, and I'm a bookaholic. I've been wanting a Kindle Fire so bad, but I'm too poor to buy one for myself right now. I love books, and I always have at least one in my purse so I can read whenever I want. But I can't imagine anything more magical than having HUNDREDS OF BOOKS at my disposal in my purse--I'm seriously all shakey and excited just thinking about it hahaha. Guaranteed, if I am the lucky winner of the Kindle, it will be taken EVERYWHERE I go :D
The ebook I'd really like is A Dance With Dragons, because I am dying to know what happens next in the saga! I'm so annoyed that there were no Tyrion or Dany chapters AT ALL in A Feast for Crows--they're my favorite characters!! However, that's one of the more expensive ebooks, so I 100% understand if you'd rather gift me I, Iago :) I'd love to read that because one of my favorite types of books is a retelling of a classic tale from a different point of view--and it doesn't get much more classic than Othello!
Seriously, thank you so much for this contest. Whoever wins is so lucky! You're so sweet to give this away instead of selling it or returning it or whatever. The generosity of this sub never fails to astound me.
So I would primarily use it for reading, but it doesn't hurt there it can be used for Movies/TV Shows/Comics as well.
The book it would want is A Dance With Dragons I've been working on the series for a while and this is the one book I don't have yet.
Given that I can't sell or lend ebooks, I'm not willing to buy them until they cost significantly less than their physical counterparts. I mean at least 50% less than the paperback. I don't find any of the other advantages (portability, accessibility, etc.) to be worth the expense.
Some current pricing examples on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003YL4LYI/ref=mp_s_a_2?qid=1310401118&sr=8-2
I enjoy digital gifting for the same reason. I can't wait to finish school. The job I'm working has really driven home that I don't want to stay where I am in life.
I'm also excited for the movie Pacific Rim. Robot rocket punches are awesome.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
I have been on a reading marathon and just finished book 4 of A Song of Ice and Fire. I'm so excited to move on to the next book, A Dance of Dragons but it's the only book I don't have on my kindle. Still, I'm elated to be finally so far in the books after Season 1 of Game of Thrones hooked me. It's shaping up to be one of my favorite fantasy series ever.
We both have this book Match!
Also I have Miss Peregrine's on my list, but the 2nd book. I've read the first and it's delightful :)
How is including a "boxed set" style eBook lazy? Especially when you can also find eBook versions of each one individually?
The only way to read ^_^