Reddit mentions of Jesus the Pharisee

I'm really not sure where to start with this. There is so much here mis-quoted, misrepresented and taken out of context. Some of them you have stated as being in opposition to one another aren't even opposing or related.

Each of your statements about Paul and Jesus couldn't be more wrong. Either the part about Jesus or Paul is incorrect, or there is a false equivalence.

Since you have made so many statements, I am just going to comment on one. This is for the sake of brevity (although this has turned out to be a lengthy post). Additionally I don't think it is necessary to comment on them all to make the point.

If you're not satisfied with me just dealing with just this one, then I can show you more.

> Paul boasts of being a Pharisee trained under Gamaliel. Jesus says to be wary of the leaven of the Pharisees.

Does Paul boast of his training under Gamaliel?

The quote is taken from Acts 22:3. Paul had just been arrested in the Temple (21:27-36) and asked to address the angry mob of Jews (21:37-40).

At the beginning of his speech he introduces himself:

>“I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as all of you are this day.

He explains that he is biologically and ethnically one of them. He explains that he was taught by one of their most important teachers and thus is a person highly educated in Judaism.

This should get their attention and give him sufficient opportunity to present his case.

> 4 I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering to prison both men and women, 5 as the high priest and the whole council of elders can bear me witness. From them I received letters to the brothers, and I journeyed toward Damascus to take those also who were there and bring them in bonds to Jerusalem to be punished.

He was someone who was trying to wipe out the church and was authorised by those of greatest authority.

This guy was a super-zealous, highly educated Jew. Paul should be regarded as a top top guy to them, so they would most likely give him air time.

>6 “As I was on my way and drew near to Damascus, about noon a great light from heaven suddenly shone around me

Then he became a Christian and everything changed.

Paul used his previous education to make a point and gain an audience for the purpose of sharing his conversion story and to give credit to his words, not to boast for his credit.

The point of his announcement wasn't to boast of his education, but to make a way to give glory to Christ and tell of what he has done in Paul's life.

It is a bit like if a former atheist was speaking to a group of atheists, telling them that he was Richard Dawkins right hand man before he became a Christian.

To further reinforce the point, Paul writes this in Philippians 3:

> 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—
4 though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more:
5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee;
6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.
7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord.

Paul states that everything he was before, including being a Pharisee counts for nothing.

Does this suggest that he was boasting about being a Pharisee?

Why does Jesus says to be wary of the leaven of the Pharisees?

This statement is made in two places in the Gospels: Matthew 12 and Luke 16.

It should be noted here that there were different types of Pharisees (Hillel and Shammai for example) and Jesus' interactions with them weren't always negative (think Nicodemus, the rich young ruler, and when they warned him that Herod was after him in Luke 13:31).

Did you know that some scholars think that Jesus may have been a Pharisee himself?

The Pharisees were generally regarded as the religious elites of their day and were held in very high regard by the people. They were the ones whom it appeared were doing a great job of keeping God's law and people looked up to them for it.

Why then would Jesus tell his disciples to be weary of their teaching?

The Pharisees were very zealous to keep the law. Some were so zealous that they did extra things to ensure they not only kept the law but remained so far away from breaking it that it would (hopefully) never happen. So they made extra rules which kept them further away from the law, then extra ones on top of that.

An example of this was the extra 'laws' they made for the Sabbath, just so they made sure they wouldn't break it. This concerned types of labour, how to prepare your clothes, preparation of food, how far you could walk, not looking in a mirror or lighting a candle.

The leaven of the Pharisees wasn't to ignore the Pharisees correct teaching of the law (which were for man's good), but these extra laws, which were a burden.

Are the elements of the statement related or in opposition to one another?

Both passages contain references to Pharisees, but the context is completely different.

One is to set up a group of people to listen to a testimony and the other is to advise against the extra laws of the ultra zeal.

These passages are not related in any way to one another.

Paul isn't boasting and Jesus isn't outright condemning all Pharisees or all their teaching.

It does not show that Jesus and Paul taught different things or were in opposition to one another.

The comparison is a false equivalence and does not support the point you are trying to make. Do you agree?

If you think I have this incorrect, I'd be keen to hear a thorough rebuttal :-)

Would you like me to address any of the other statements you've made?

Edits are spelling and grammar and added where a reference was from.