Reddit mentions of Joan of Arc: By Herself and Her Witnesses

>Very few people know that Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) wrote a major work on Joan of Arc. Still fewer know that he considered it not only his most important but also his best work. He spent twelve years in research and many months in France doing archival work and then made several attempts until he felt he finally had the story he wanted to tell. He reached his conclusion about Joan's unique place in history only after studying in detail accounts written by both sides, the French and the English.

Because of Mark Twain's antipathy to institutional religion, one might expect an anti-Catholic bias toward Joan or at least toward the bishops and theologians who condemned her. Instead one finds a remarkably accurate biography of the life and mission of Joan of Arc told by one of this country's greatest storytellers. The very fact that Mark Twain wrote this book and wrote it the way he did is a powerful testimony to the attractive power of the Catholic Church's saints. This is a book that really will inform and inspire.


http://www.amazon.com/Joan-Arc-Mark-Twain/dp/0898702682/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1421281959&sr=8-2&keywords=joan+of+arc


>Using historical documents and translated by Régine Pernoud, Joan of Arc seeks to answer the questions asked by Joan's contemporaries as well as us: Who was she? Whence came she? What had been her life and exploits? First published in the United States in 1966 by Stein and Day, this book reveals the historical Joan, described in contemporary documents by her allies as well as her enemies.


http://www.amazon.com/Joan-Arc-Herself-Her-Witnesses/dp/0812812603/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1421282282&sr=1-6&keywords=joan+of+arc+biography

Wow haha! I didn't expect seeing a post like this on r/atheism. Like you, Joan of Arc has always been one of my heroes. She was an incredible woman - virtuous and intelligent. Of course, as a Catholic, I believe she was the real deal but anyway...from one Joan of Arc fan to another, I suggest reading Mark Twain's Joan of Arc (yes, Mark Twain) and Regine Pernoud's Joan of Arc: By Herself and Her Witnesses (which also includes transcripts from her trial). These books are widely regarded to be the best books on Joan. They are both very well-written and researched; the authors even travelled to France to look into the archives and study the actual documents we have about her. Another book by Pernoud, The Retrial of Joan of Arc: The Evidence for her Vindication also covers her retrial. Also, if you do end up using that medal, I suggest getting it blessed even if you're a non-believer. If Catholicism is true, then you'll be under her care and who wouldn't want that? You have nothing to lose.

EDIT: Your friend should have given you a book instead. It's an obvious choice and makes much more sense!

I have no interest in debating with you. I have limited time and only save my efforts for posts that I think really need to be responded to, or for people who, despite having opposing views, are reasonable and open-minded (because in this case, discussions can actually be fruitful). Frankly, I'm tired of atheists mindlessly parroting the same objections over and over again saying that there is "no evidence for God" or that "there is nothing unique/special about", or that there is "no evidence for", "Christianity". I'm also tired of atheists getting history wrong (and I thank God supremely for atheist Tim O Neil here), just like they do with the conflict thesis, and just like you're currently doing with Joan of Arc. Anyway, with regard to atheists parroting the same baseless objections all over again (i.e. no evidence, etc) despite the evidence being clearly out there -- it shows a serious intellectual bias, stubbornness and in other cases, even dishonesty on their part. I will reply to you this once and you may have the last word.

>How do you figure? Christianity isn't any more special in its claims and lack of proof of its claims than any other religion.

Mmm, I did point out quite a few things in my last post. :P Did you not see it? In any case, I'd also like to leave you with a video from Fr. Barron on the uniqueness of Jesus.

>and claimed it all as a historical fact.

When I say that the case for the Resurrection is very strong, I am not doing so without any basis/evidence. I believe in the Resurrection because that is where the evidence leads. I've studied Christianity, as well as the possibility of atheism very seriously. In the end, I came out a devout Catholic. My intention in my previous post was just not to write down "my full case" but to give a good but brief answer to the OP (with a number of good links for him to check out and chew on).

In any case, I will leave you with the thoughts of Anthony Flew himself, the world's most influential atheist in the 20th century who converted to deism in 2004 (particularly, he came to believe in the God of Aristotle) and ended up developing a great respect for the Christian religion.

>I think that the Christian religion is the one religion that most clearly deserves to be honoured and respected whether or not its claim to be a divine revelation is true. There is nothing like the combination of a charismatic figure like Jesus and a first-class intellectual like St. Paul…If you’re wanting Omnipotence to set up a religion, this is the one to beat (There is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed his Mind, 185-186).

and on the Resurrection...

>The evidence for the resurrection is better than for claimed miracles in any other religion. It's outstandingly different in quality and quantity (Flew Interview with Gary Habermas, 2004).


A lot of people have done great work detailing the historical case for the Resurrection and they have won over many people. I really hope that you'll stop parroting the same objections in the future. If there was no case, no evidence, then it should not have considerable persuasive power as Flew admits, and as former atheists Lee Strobel, Warner Wallace and Albert Henry Ross (Frank Morrison) know so well.


>Also please don't bring Joan of Arc into this. What Christians have done to her is a travesty.

I will gladly. Unlike you, I actually know what happened. Her trial was a kangaroo court driven by English political agenda. This is not on the Church but on the English and a small group of Catholic clergy like Cauchon who were strong English partisans. Joan's appeals to the Pope were denied. This would have stopped trial but she was in the hands of the English, who would not let anyone interfere with the outcome they so desperately needed and wanted. Later on, the Church gave her the retrial she deserved.

You should read up on Joan, say Pernoud's Joan of Arc: By Herself and Her Witnesses. It's a great book. She truly was an incredible, saintly woman who carried out what God wanted her to do. It's no wonder, that even Mark Twain fell in love with her as a person and even wrote what he believed was his greatest book on her.

*edited to fix grammar and word things better