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Reddit mentions of Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism

Sentiment score: 46
Reddit mentions: 63

We found 63 Reddit mentions of Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism. Here are the top ones.

Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism
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Found 63 comments on Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism:

u/[deleted] · 165 pointsr/sex

The 50 Shades series was so hokey. It involves a girl who is 19 and still an innocent virgin in an ivy league school who has never used a computer or understands how email works. Nobody is that naive. It's stereotypical that the leading male is filthy rich, which only serves to reinforce the idea that all women want is money. It makes a mockery of the whole BDSM lifestyle and I couldn't stop cringing the whole time. Every time she mentioned her "inner goddess" (which was on every other page) I wanted to tear the book to shreds and burn it.

There. Having finished my rant, your wife really needs to understand that there need to be ground rules to this type of thing. You could get arrested for something like this and have you seen Irreversible? The dude rapes her ass for almost 10 minutes of screen time and then beats her to a bloody pulp. I can't quite remember, but I think she dies from the injuries. Not to toot my own horn, but I discussed this very thing at length on the /r/AskWomen subreddit yesterday. People told me I was very helpful.

If she wants to read some BDSM literature, I found the Sleeping Beauty books by Anne Rice to be a lot more...stimulating.

Also, if the BDSM lifestyle is one you both want to pursue, look into this book. I found it to be very informative and an easy, entertaining read.

TL:DR For the love of God, don't rush into this. It's not going to end well for either of you.

u/Jerzeem · 23 pointsr/AdviceAnimals

May I suggest some reading for both of you before things get messy?

u/UmustBjoking · 10 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

Personally, I'd say Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism. It's out of print but still available on amazon for now. It's a practical guide with instruction as well as some light theory. Just my $0.02.

u/Phantasmal · 8 pointsr/sex

Go visit r/BDSMCommunity for advice, safety tips, creative ideas and like-minded discourse.

I was going to put together a list of books, but someone has already made a fantastic one.

The only book that I would add is Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns.

u/MyPrettyPony · 7 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

My boyfriend just got me a copy of Screw The Roses, Send Me The Thorns. It's written by a male/dom female/sub couple. I've just started it, but it seems to have good information - as well as a sense of humor!

u/Her_Captain · 7 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

So in saying the BD versus the SM, I assume you mean Bondage and Discipline, and Sadism and Masochism. Fun note, the acronym is more complex than most would think, as the DS also stands for Dominance and Submission. So 6 initials in 4! Woo!

Alright, goofery aside, yes, you can be submissive without being masochistic. It really depends on the partners you're playing with, and what you consent to beforehand. It sounds like you're looking to explore. I'd advise you to look around, and meet people before jumping in. BDSM can be a little much if you just jump in feet first.

The advice given out 99% of the time, is to join fetlife, and look around in your area. If you live in a decent sized city (more than 2 stoplights) there's a chance there are groups around you. The easiest course would be to look, find a group that's not too scary, and attend a munch. It's a great way to meet people in the scene, and get comfortable. If it still sounds like something you wanna try, and a scene you want to get in to, you should be in a good position to advance from there.

There are also a handful of books that are worth reading, SM 101 (A little outdated, but has good info still), and Screw the Roses are good ones. I'm sure more people will add book suggestions.

If you want to engage in play at some point, and decide to set something up with someone locally, come back and tell us, and we'll prattle on about all the safety things you should do before your first meeting. But, SM 101 covers that well enough that you should know what to do. Side note: Part of the "outdated" has to do with that, because he talks about these new things called "cellular phones", and how they might be useful for check ins, if you regularly meet up with people. Good thing that newfangled technology never caught on!

u/subgirl614 · 7 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

There are a ton of resources out there for people who want to explore their kinky sides more.

On Reddit, I'd recommend [1] this, [2] this, and of course [3] Darr's "Standard Intro to Kink" post. As for books, this community tends to recommend Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns, The New Topping Book, and The New Bottoming Book.

For web reading, I like this site, Leather and Roses. It's got a lot of general information and they subdivide into general essays, domination, and submission, so you can target what you're reading and have your girlfriend look over the same materials too.

Enjoy!

u/Make-Kink-Happen · 6 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

> Screw the Roses and Give Me The Thorns (can't remember the author)

"Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism" by Philip Miller and Molly Devon (Amazon link)

u/MasterRycharde · 6 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

Subspace is my conclusion as well. Of course, if any of the symptoms you listed return when you are not scening take him to the ER immediately.

A good book dealing with SM info including a good introduction into subspace is Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns.

Next time you see evidence of your partner slipping into subspace do not has him yes/no questions. Ask him how he is feeling. As him what the date or year. What is our current president. What is his full name. What the safeword is. etc. Questions used by EMTs, neurologists, etc.

Your partner can be in a place mentally where he does not feel the full intensity of pain being delved out. So determining whether he has fallen into subspace is of vital importance when he is acting differently that he should be taking the situation into account.

BTW: being in subspace is not a bad thing. Release any tension, untie his bondage, make sure he is resting comfortably, after checking on these laying next to him giving gentle aftercare techniques. Try to let him return on his own if you can. Experiencing subspace is a wonderful thing I have been told.

u/metalhammer69 · 5 pointsr/sexover30

Screw the Roses, Send Me The Thorns is an S+ tier book to introductory kink

u/Doctor_Song · 5 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

Have your friend order him to fill out a Submissive's BDSM Checklist so that she has some idea of what he likes and doesn't like. He may have the idealistic view that a Dominant should just "know," or he may be too embarrassed to tell her directly -- maybe writing it down via the Checklist and not having to say it will be a good starting point for discussion, and he will feel less shy and start talking.

HOWEVER, I would recommend to your friend that if he won't talk about it at all, that she doesn't do anything until he's willing to communicate and own his desires in some way. If he can't communicate outside the scene, he probably won't do so "in scene," and that is a recipe for drama and disaster, as well as possible injury.

EDITING to add that a wonderful resource for women whose male partners have expressed an interest in Domination is The Mistress Manual: The Good Girl's Guide to Female Dominance. Another good (although very heteronormative and directed toward MaleDoms and femsubs, it has great info and exercises, nonetheless) book for beginners is Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns.

u/baddestdog · 5 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

The New Topping Book - For good general Dom knowledge

The New Bottoming Book - For good general Sub knowledge

SM 101: A Realistic Introduction - Nice Intro Book

Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns - Another good book into BDSM

Two Knotty Books: Showing You the Ropes - Good knot book

Two Knotty Boys: Back on the Ropes - Another good knot book

Erotic Bondage Handbook - Another knot book

Shibari You can USe - Book on Shibari knots

Videos on knots - TwistedMonk

u/Dicho83 · 5 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

Get this book: *Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism -By Philip Miller & Molly Devon.

It's great for couples. It's funny and explains many different aspects of kink. It's a great starting point.

However, I do second the notion that you seek out your local area's kink community. There is likely a nearby munch, which is a monthly (or sometimes even weekly) social gathering at a public 'vanilla' venue like a bar or restaurant.

Meeting real people who practice kink in the real world, will help demystify your desires and hopefully put you on a path to a fulfilling kink-life.

If you're not sure where to find your local kink community, try Fetlife.com. This site has helped create a real online community for Kinksters to connect (it is NOT a dating site).

I still wake up in a cold sweat after having nightmares about yahoo groups chain email threads ....

u/MySafeWordIsReddit · 5 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

The first thing to do is to disabuse yourself of the notion that real BDSM is anything like 50 Shades. Most of us hate that book, and with good reason - Christian and Ana's relationship is neither realistic nor healthy. If you come in looking for that kind of storybook experience, you will likely be disappointed.

If you're looking for reading on the Dom side, I'd recommend the following:

Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns

Playing Well With Others

The Loving Dominant

The New Topping Book

Also check out the link to r/bdsmfaq posted in this thread. It also might be worthwhile to take the test on bdsmtest.org - it will help you find specifically what you're into, which you can communicate to others.

(A caveat - those books, and most books about bdsm unfortunately, focus on male dom/top/d-type, female sub/bottom/s-type. I'm guessing based on your username you are female-identified. Good news - female doms are in very high demand! Bad news- while there are certainly resources for you, and you can certainly get good stuff out of those books, applicable material may be harder to find - as a bi guy myself, I'm often annoyed at how many rope tutorials involve knots that, ehem, would be uncomfortable for guys.)

From there, I'd look up munches in your area and go to a few. Don't expect any action, you'll just be getting to know people in the community. Maybe you'll find partners quickly, maybe it will take some time - there's a catch-22 for new doms, which is that people prefer to play with experienced doms, but you need to play with people to get experience. But by and large, most communities are very welcoming to newcomers. From there, the world is your oyster - have fun and be safe!

u/clever_name · 4 pointsr/sex

In the name of science have her go book shopping with him.

Some decent books:

Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns

The Loving Dominant

S&M101 though, I think the first two are much better for feeling out dominance play....S&M101 I feel is a little more dated and reads a tad more like a "technical guide"

They can learn a lot about each other by reading up and discussing. She might find somethings that pique her interest. He should be able to find examples of things he'd find hot. Everyone wins.

u/BipolarType1 · 4 pointsr/sex

I wouldn't do this until I did some research and gotten pointers from other folks who have done this sort of thing. There are several safety issues that need serious consideration. It may seem straightforward, but it's easy to fuck up something like this. You are probably better off exploring more during waking scenes. Another thought is you could do bondage nap of a few hours instead of over night.

Check out the other subreddits and also this fantastic incredibly awesome BDSM book http://www.amazon.com/Screw-Roses-Send-Thorns-Sadomasochism/dp/0964596008 . It has lots of suggestions for expanding and extending your BDSM scenes.

u/kinkyanonymouse · 3 pointsr/bdsm

When you see how much she enjoys it, hopefully your concerns will melt away. My husband was very similar. He was interested in bondage before we met but the thought of hitting someone without just cause made him uncomfortable. When he realised that I was enjoying being spanked, it quickly quelled any fears he had. And don't worry - he's not turned into a wife-beating maniac or a quick-tempered oaf who gets into fights in bars!

Basically - there's a HUGE difference between violence (domestic and otherwise) and safe, sane, consensual play between two adults.

As Deviant-designs said, having her take the lead at first is a great idea. This way you know what she's into and you know you're not going to cross a line.

Set up a safeword (or, if she's gagged, another way of being able to communicate 'I'm not happy with this, stop NOW' - e.g. a handkerchief she can wave or drop). That way you know you're not going to accidentally go too far.

Perhaps explore some BDSM related sites or books together. Communication is key - talk about what you find interesting / intriguing and what you find disconcerting.

Also, "Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns" is a great read - https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/cka/Screw-Roses-Send-Me-Thorns-Romance-Sadomasochism/0964596008 - and can really help beginners.

Good luck - and enjoy!

u/Fey_fox · 3 pointsr/TwoXSex

What you gotta do is bottle up those laid back parts of yourself. Put those aspects of you that don’t fit into a little mental box and lock it up real right and bury it in your psyche. Then, you pretend to have this personality that your girlfriend and her parents demand. Practice it every day, all the time, unto you can’t remember being any other way. If you get depressed over changing yourself for other people, bottle that up too.

Personally I don’t think it’s wise to change who you are for other people, but that’s what you’re asking for. There’s this thing poly people call new relationship energy that non-poly people should be aware of imho. That exciting new relationship may seem like it’s perfect and right, and you may ignore red flags because “Love”. People who’ve been in long relationships will tell you that love is not enough to keep a relationship stable and content. You have to have the same general goals such as lifestyle and where you want to live and how many kids you want. You need to be somewhat sexually compatible. Finally and most important you need to accept yourself and the other person as they are, as they grow and change through life (because the both of you will evolve).

You don’t give your age but you sound kinda young. You gotta ask if being the domineering person they expect is something you want to become or if it’s something you want to maintain for the unforeseeable future. Yes it’s possible with practice to modify behavior, but being that kind of person can stain other casual relationships and any future romantic ones. Being domineering doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Controlling people are rarely just controlling at home. Setting aside how you feel about this girl is this the style of relationship you really want? You get a say in this too ya know.

As far as you et question about BDSM, it may or may not be an outlet for feeling controlled. People into that kind of sex play don’t do it for any single trope reason. Only she can tell you why she’s into it. Btw, all that she’s asking you to do, to change for her and for her family, all of that is her topping you, taking control of you. She’s demanding you give up your agency of choice in being who you are to instead play a role, to appear to be the dominant man in public and her submissive in private. You aren’t coming to any of this with a choice, it sounds more like an ultimatum to me. ‘To be with me you must be what I demand’ is not a relationship that consists of equals. You may order her around in the public aspects of home and for her parents. But… yeah dude you’re totally the sub in this situation.

You say ‘don’t tell me go break up, I love her’. Ok… I’ll just say that relationships with these kinds of fundamental problems don’t magically heal themselves over time. What is want to see is some agency from her to accept you as you are, to her parents and to herself. You say you’re a laid back dude, why isn’t she ok with you as you are? The sex stuff is a separate issue, I would suggest reading a few books like Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns to learn about responsible kink play, and I’d suggest checking the kink subs, and she should too since she wants to top you and she need to understand what that means so nobody gets injured. Btw. In a top/bottom kink relationship/scene, it’s the bottom who sets the limits and controls the scene. Not the top. If she doesn’t get that, that’s a huge red flag.

If you haven’t you should talk to your RL friends about this, especially ones that know her too, and check in. Love makes us stupid. You may not feel this way now but it’s really a bad idea to engage in toxic behavior for a relationship. That shit will taint you with a stain that’s not easy to remove, even with therapy

Good luck.

u/littlemermaid2me · 3 pointsr/bdsm

Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns is a really great book. It's really informative as well as entertaining, with a fun conversational style. I highly recommend it.

u/isendra3 · 3 pointsr/TwoXChromosomes

Remember that this is all new and can go from really fun to really unfun very very fast. The motto is "Safe, Sane and Consensual" The first thing you need to do is sit down and talk about it while you're not feeling sexy. Realize this talk may lead to sexy feelings, so start of with the most important stuff first.

Number 1- Safe words. It's a word she can say that means you need to stop everything right the fuck now. Something not usual, because often in this stuff "No" does actually mean "Yes". The go-to system for this is generally a stoplight system. (obviously, can tweak to your own needs)

  • Green means go (she usually wont need to say this, unless she see's you hesitating or something)

  • Yellow means "I need you to slow down or back off a little"

  • Red is STOP. Stop sex, stop everything, remove restraints, make sure she is ok. hold her and tell her you love her, and then figure out what when wrong when everything has settled. most of all, never make her feel bad or hesitant about saying "Red" even if she has no idea why she needed to.

    Number 2- talk about what y'all both like, and what you would be willing to explore. This is not the time for "suprize, buttsecks!"

    If y'all get really into it, check out Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns a great book that works equally well for beginners and more advanced.

    Have fun!


    edit: My mind can form words, usually. Usually they are spelled at least close to correctly.
u/brainiac256 · 3 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns is widely considered to be a good resource, as well as SM 101 and The New Topping Book/The New Bottoming Book.

u/FuriousFalcon · 3 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

The books that are commonly recommended are Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns (http://www.amazon.com/Screw-Roses-Send-Thorns-Sadomasochism/dp/0964596008/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341260434&sr=8-1&keywords=screw+the+roses+send+me+the+thorns) and The New Topping Book ([http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Topping-Book-TOPPING/dp/B001TJV5DW/ref=pd_sim_b_5].(http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Topping-Book-TOPPING/dp/B001TJV5DW/ref=pd_sim_b_5)). I own both, though I haven't gone through the first one all the way yet. Both have been pretty helpful, and I'm sure you can find some cheap used copies. At least in my experience, BDSM (and sex in general) is a very wide field, so a lot of times you just have to experiment and practice until you figure out what will work for the both of you.


>"The scenario seemed a lot better in my head. Once I had him under my control, I started realizing how ignorant I was about...everything. I was clueless about femdom, and I just felt that I didn't know enough of anything. I think this slowed me down a lot and made me timid to carry out all the ideas I had planned to do. Could this be true for him too?"


Yes. That's probably exactly how he feels, especially if he is new to things. Playing the dom role isn't easy, and like I said, you'll have to be patient and give him some time to practice and experiment.


Glad to hear you found my erotica comment helpful!

u/norumbegan · 3 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

Secretary is a great start ... but yes, there's a lot more :)

  • Kushiel's Legacy, by Jacqueline Carey is a solid fantasy series with a BDSM protagonist. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet!
  • I'll second the Sleeping Beauty trilogy by Anne Rice (under the pen name A. N. Roquelaure). Very explicit and pretty extreme in terms of the level of sexuality and the degree of Master/slave dynamic presented.
  • I haven't read Sunstone myself, but have heard great things about it.
  • Smut Peddler and Smut Peddler II are great collections of erotic comics. Not all of the stories are BDSM-related (though many are), but the diversity of genders/sexes/dynamics/etc. presented is unparalleled, and the stories & art are excellent.
  • Girls with Slingshots is a fun, sexy webcomic with a few kinky characters.

    If you're interested in non-fiction BDSM resources, I recommend starting with Screw The Roses, Send Me The Thorns or any number of titles from Greenery Press (especially those by Jay Wiseman).
u/switch_lich · 3 pointsr/gentlefemdom

No one is going to know the two of you better than the two of you. While it can be fun to swap techniques with other players, most "mentorship" relationships are unnecessary and often smoke-screen for toxic dynamics.

My favorite book in my library to loan to the recently-interested is "Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns." It's certainly "classic" and legend has it that it was orginially laid out on a copy machine, but it remains one of the best survey-level resources out there for loving people doing this stuff because its fun in a non-commercial setting. Revolutionary for the time when most media was centered around Commercial Domination(tm.) A classic then, still excellent now.

I have so many "technique" books it's hard to narrow them down, but the first I would pick up is "Jay Wiseman's Erotic Bondage Handbook." Rope is useful, rope is cheap, rope is versatile, and with a few simple guidelines rope is remarkably safe. The biggest guideline being "don't do weight-bearing rope unless that's a specific fetish you're into and have spent a few years getting good at it." This book isn't about Japanese-style rope with an eye towards moving on to suspension, although I have books like that and I love them. This is about using Western style rope to keep things out of the way while having safe, sane, and consensual sexytimes. Simple techniques, creative applications, and a thrumming focus on safety make it a great start.

Comboing the two should give you a pretty good start on some neat ideas, save you some dosh by making it easier to put together a toybag that's not going to require a lot of cash outlay, and hopefully keep you away from handcuffs. I own a pair, I use them for capture play, but the can be prone to causing injuries both superficial and serious so you really don't want to be moving around while wearing them. Rope may not be 100% safe but it's certainly safe-er.

If you're interested in branching out a bit more, or you learn better from videos, or you would like to get your education and your porn fix at the same time, kink.com's Kink University has both a commercial site and a free sample feed of guest teachers that cover a wide, wide variety of activities with a focus on learning enough skills to have fun while getting an overview of what the kink/activity "is."

If you don't mind being marketed to a bit, Extreme Restraint's XR University and their Pornhub mirror, which is not verified so I won't link it here, are also excellent. Generally the two hosts bring in a guest star and speak to them about a certain kink for the first half of the vid, then do a hands on demonstration for the second half, interspersed with two-three commercials. The good news is that they go very in depth on the products used, make recommendations for ones they particularly like, and make it clear where they can be purchased. The maybe-bad news is that's because they sell them through their online store and are doing this to make money. Personally, I respect the hustle, love the videos, and think selling toys by teaching people to play with them is a great idea where everyone wins, but I don't judge the people who are bothered by the idea it's primarily an infomercial. Your mileage may vary.

In short, don't spend money on dominatrix time unless you just want to spend money on having that kind of experience. Do talk with each other and if you feel like it grab a few books and some pleasant-enough-feeling cheap rope and experiment. You can, and almost certainly will, buy more expensive and specialized stuff later, or just learn some techniques for safely manhandling each other that make rope unneeded if you get into that. Or all of the above. Mostly, just have fun and take care of each other and everything else will work out. Good luck and have fun.

(Disclaimer: links to commercial products and websites included for convenience only. I have no business relationship with anyone in this post other than happy customer and receive no compensation other than the warm fuzzy feeling of passing on recommendations that were given to me when I was starting. 1/4 inch nylon is fine and if you tie it in a pillowcase you can just chuck it straight into the washing machine and dryer. Fnord.)

u/Serpent73 · 3 pointsr/confession

ZC,

First off, takes gutz to admit you might have gotten in over your head.

Second, it sounds like you are a pretty serious paintoy. I would recommend joining a community of like-minded peeps, like People Exchanging Power (ask google for a city chapter near you) for instance, The Cage or Fet Life.

Third, it sounds like your top / dom has lost your trust. A good bottom / sub knows how to trust her instincts, and avoid anyone that has lost touch with the boundaries of civil behavior. Vote with your feet, and PERMA-BLOCK HIM.

Fourth, keep looking. You will find someone out there that understands and cherishes you. Someone that is capable of meeting ALL of your needs. (I did!) When you find that person, start slow next time. For instance, try buying them this book.

u/nacreous · 3 pointsr/sex

Your post really touched me because I've been through some of the same feelings from the opposite (dominating) side. "Am I sick for wanting to tie my girl down to inflict pleasure on her?" The short version is, there isn't a cheat sheet for why we like what we like; we just do, and that's okay as long as everyone keeps things safe, sane, and consensual. There isn't any particular trauma or gratification at an early age that bends us toward what we like in the bedroom. You're doing fine.

I'd like to point you to a few things that might help you enjoy what you like safely:

  1. /r/bdsmcommunity
  2. /r/twoxchromosomes
  3. SM101
  4. Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns
  5. Dan Savage

    Hope this helps and good luck.

    edit: formatting
u/SirJulio · 3 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

Ok, that's better.

First, don't put too much weight on yourself. The fact that she cannot have an orgasm with you right now doesn't necessarily mean that you suck (ha !) at sex. That's what i feel from your post, so don't. Maybe she's not too sure about her fantasies, feel guilty of having those, or anything. From what i know of woman, if you put some guilt, self doubt, image issue whatever in the mix, and you can block the whole thing. So be supportive, listen to her, reassure her but you need to relax on her inability to orgasm yet. Most of the time, trust and comfort will help her relax and be more in sync with you. Maybe some woman could give you more insight on that point.

For the mental part. Think of BDSM like a play with characters. Imagine the man who symbolize for you the ideal dominant (mine is robert downey jr by example) and take that as a role model. What would he do, what would he say, his posture, his look etc ... BDSM is a lot about how you project things and how other perceive that. So first rule, if you doubt of your dominance, other will feel it. When a dom order his sub, he doesn't let her have any other choice but to obey. What can helps you with that (at least it helped me) is think one move ahead, you'll seem assertive because your order will feel like one small part of something bigger. Imagine a boss telling you to finish the report for Monday and put it on his desk first hour. There is no negotiation, and doesn't have any interest in the fact you have tennis that day, the only thing he cares about is if you understood correctly what he wants. Some wisdom from the joker "Nobody panics when things go according to plan. Even if the plan is horrifying". Basically, if you seems to know what you do, people who trust you will follow. Be casual when you order your sub around, screaming sound like overcompensation when people don't listen to you. When I order my sub around, i talk slowly and calmly. I know that' she's listening, so i just explain to her what's going to happen.

Now for the expectation part. I was in the same place as you some years ago. My sub was very experienced (several years with a Master with decades of experience) and I was very inexperienced. First step, accept that you're inexperienced. You're not broken or whatever, you just don't know yet. It's ok. If you have a good communication, she already know that maybe you'll be awkward, clumsy, breaking character the first time, again it's ok. Don't worry about it. Things became awkward when you let them be awkward. One time i remember, i was pouring hot wax on her, all domy and stuff, I move her on the table to change position, and i put the candle on the table. The only thing that could have happened, happened. The candle fell on my foot, and you bet your ass I screamed and run like a little girl across the room... I was just surprised and honestly lots of anxiety didn't help. We stopped, had a good laugh, a good fuck and just went to sleep. Did that event hurt in any way our relationship ? Not at all, actually it's good and fun memories. So don't worry, screwing up isn't an option, what you can choose is how you decide to own your mistakes. Furthermore, you have to remember that we talk about sexual stuff here, sex is fun, if you don't have fun, you're doing something wrong.

i can guarantee you that a simple slap across the face (again discuss that before) or a simple over the knee spanking with the right attitude, look, voice and all will have ten times more effects than trying to act a very complex suspension scene you're not familiar with. So stay "in your league" and advance slowly, one step at the time. Going slow will also allow you to build a dominant character because it doesn't happen overnight. What makes all the BDSM plays possible can be reduced at how credible your character is. There are lots of dom archetypes, some are nice, some are mean, other have high protocol, other are more casual, some are more physical, other more mental and psychological. You need to find the one you want to be, and start to act (in play of course) like him. Your final dynamic is the mix of your wants and her needs and wants. There is no two person on earth who will enjoy an identical set of kinks. Just imagine, a checklist have hundred of entry each can be noted from 0 to 5 for how much you enjoy it and 0 to 5 for how difficult is that for you. That's an infinite amount of possible combinations. So every relationship need to negotiate all the time, to find a common ground. That's why we value communication so much and advice new comers to first establish an open, clear and non judgmental like of communication. Lots of people think they have an unbiased and perfect communication, but when you think that's the case, it's just the start really. Those level of communication need a very high level of trust in your partner.

To summarize :

  • Talk to her, never assume
  • Accept that you're learning
  • Relax on her inability to cum with you. You'll see how that goes when you introduce new concept in your relationship with her.
  • Spank that ass with your hand and your mind ! =)

    Now some homework !

    Read that. Maybe not especially for you but i give the link to all new dom, so ...

    BDSM checklist for her. Something that could help with shy people is make them write a fantasy. Writing can help express thing you cannot say out loud (for your con non-con suspicion)

    There are several books linked in the resource section of /r/bdsmfaq . Screw the roses, send me the thorns is one of my favorite.

    For the mental aspect, you can read the Control Book by Masters. Also the New topping (and bottoming) book. In terms of books about psychological aspect of BDSM you have a very wide range of available book because you can learn from dog traning book to old "Good wife guide" kind of book (for 50's household), field manual for prisoners interrogation (i'm into interrogation play). Magic tricks book (for mindfuck). It really depends on what play you're interested in.

    Take care, and have fun.
u/aviva123 · 3 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

Communication is the most important part of bdsm relationships. I'd talk to him until you feel you're both on the same page.

I also really recommend this book for beginners.

http://www.amazon.com/Screw-Roses-Send-Thorns-Sadomasochism/dp/0964596008/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1395840942&sr=1-1&keywords=screw+the+roses+send+me+the+thorns

u/triple110 · 3 pointsr/videos

Because, we (as a society), are obsessed with the weird and unusual. In other words, the outsiders of social norms. Those too fearful to find out more will catalog generalities in a way to protect themselves from something they don't understand or wish to acknowledge within themselves.

There's a bit of irony that the public vision of BDSM is leather clad mistresses with whips and chains (which in itself becomes a fetishization BDSM). Show up to a BDSM event in something out of the Matrix and you'll be looked upon by other members as a freak too. People don't realize that many of the people that participate in the BDSM communities are a 'normal' as the next person. They are filled with lawyers, cops, accountants, businessmen/women, CEOs, to Fast Food workers. At an event you are more likely to find people in their 'relaxed' wear...dirty t-shirts and boxers with hearts on them.

To this day, anyone who seems genuinely interested, regardless of whether they read Fifty Shades of Grey, I point them too 2 books, SM101 and Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns. They are still the go to books on BDSM.

u/JordanTheBrobot · 2 pointsr/todayilearned

Fixed your link

I hope I didn't jump the gun, but you got your link syntax backward! Don't worry bro, I fixed it, have an upvote!

u/malphonso · 2 pointsr/todayilearned

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0964596008?ie=UTF8&force-full-site=1&ref_=aw_bottom_links you go. Its s bit dated (it recommends some bbs boards and phone chat lines) but it's excellent for someone just getting in.

u/wizfrk · 2 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

A good book on the topic is "When Someone You Love is Kinky", you can also read "The New Topping Book" and "Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns". I also have a BDSM Resource Collection on my site BDSMGeek.com if your looking for more.

As for the dating side, really I can't say much more then this: In the community you won't be trusted and won't be really attractive to women for a while, until they get to know you, and outside the community its pretty much the same as any other type of dating, decide if you want to sleep with them before you ask them or after and go with it, (seriously just say something along the line of "you have such a nice ass I just want to spank it" if your already been down and dirty, if not and its a more tame situation, just go with the mood, maybe strike up a conversation about 50 shades of gray or some bdsm related news story).

Anyway hope this helps, good luck!

Cheers.

u/Arbitrary_Cleverness · 2 pointsr/AskWomen

Came here to suggest fetlife. I also recommend the book Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns

u/Nobodey · 2 pointsr/Bondage

Or, if you want to go old school about it, they used to have these things called books. =)
http://www.amazon.com/Screw-Roses-Send-Thorns-Sadomasochism/dp/0964596008

u/Deviant1 · 2 pointsr/sex

Try here with your question. Also, this book is very good.

u/PatrickSwayzeXmas · 2 pointsr/AskReddit

Go read "Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns." Great introduction to kink (even has some handy, cheap restraint suggestions/plans) and is also an easy read. It mostly focuses on BD in the context of a pre-existing relationship which, given what you've written and despite the apprehension about a Dom/sub thing, might turn out to be very interesting for both of you to explore. Enjoy :)

u/sleddogslow · 2 pointsr/Random_Acts_Of_Amazon

Hello, queer here! Bisexual and poly (though bush dating is hard^IseewhatIdidthere^shiftyeyes).

I actually bought my husband Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns when we first became serious. Its a good beginner for those entering/thinking about the BDSM scene. I also had him read The Ethical Slut because he's was solidly monogamous and did not understand why anyone would be okay with sharing their partner. I'm happy to say both books helped us get on the same page before marriage!

YAAAAS QUEEN! I highly recommend these books.

Edit to add: The Story Of O (1975). It's porn, but it's hooooott. A young woman's boyfriend brings her to a secluded chateau for "training" wink wink

u/hdvmedia · 2 pointsr/BDSMAdvice

I echo ephony5's sentiments. All you need is to be her Dom. There are likely things that she likes, is into, or curious about, and there are things that she's likely not interested in.

The good news is you get to focus on things that she likes and that you both can share together.

These would be a good start for you.

SM 101: A Realistic Introduction 2nd Edition
https://www.amazon.com/101-Realistic-Introduction-Jay-Wiseman/dp/0963976389/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0963976389&pd_rd_r=Q2TBDATJSPJ5NE75M5JK&pd_rd_w=P8mfT&pd_rd_wg=W3Gd3&psc=1&refRID=Q2TBDATJSPJ5NE75M5JK


Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism
https://www.amazon.com/Screw-Roses-Send-Thorns-Sadomasochism/dp/0964596008/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_2/132-8810996-6709733?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6HFP9C4RR6KH9RJ0V4RD

u/OnTheCob · 2 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

I agree about Wiseman...I found this book, although a little 80s-hokey, to be a much better intro and provide a larger spectrum of information.

u/Kinkster4u2cum · 2 pointsr/sexover30

Ok Darlingnikki928 here is the conundrum you are faced with.

It sounds like your boyfriend is what we would call a "Vanilla" and you are in the BDSM spectrum (this varies based on your personal sexual preference) so hence you would be a kinkster (there are other names). So what you need to do is learn about yourself more with regards to your BDSM likings/desires/needs/etc. so then you can provide your "Vanilla" boyfriend ALL the information that HE NEEDS in order to provide you with what your sexual needs/desires are since eventually if he doesn't learn how to be a kinkster like yourself, the relationship will eventually fade into obscurity due to the fact that kinksters like us will ALWAYS need sex in the way WE NEED IT and without your help to educate him ( like my first serious girlfriend did soooo many years ago to me) he WILL FAIL at it time after time.

To give you an idea, in my case I was raised by my mother to NEVER EVER, EVER hit a woman, NOT EVEN with a rose and was also taught that doing so was VERY disrespectful to ANY WOMAN.

Imagine my surprise when in my late teens while being ridden HARD cowgirl style by my then girlfriend (we were dating about 3 months) all of a sudden she blurs out to me "Hit me!" To which I confusingly said "What?" and she said "HIT ME!". My brain started to go in all kinds of directions trying to understand what she meant and I must of had the most confused look on my face because she then grabbed my hand and slapped herself with it ( while she continued to ride me) at which point I thought "HOLY SHIT! She did ask me to hit her!".

My body wanted to hit her to give her the pleasure that she needed but my mind kept remembering my mother yelling at me as a child after I had hit my sister in a disagreement and she ferociously defended my sister with her "NEVER EVER, EVER hit a woman, NOT EVEN with a rose" line. The struggle I went through with those thoughts in my mind and my body fighting each other for dominance trying to decide whether I should or should not hit her as she had requested was just absolutely MIND BLOWING while at the same time exhilarating.

I just did not know what to do because my mind and body were at a stalemate at which point she repeated herself "HIT ME! It's OK".

I VERY RELUCTANTLY agreed and lightly slapped her face at which point She said to me, "NO, I mean REALLY HIT ME!! Just slap me!!".

As she forcefully told me to "JUST DO IT!" and that it was OK and that SHE really, REALLY LIKED IT , I then was able to remove my "social restraints" and let it rip.

I (as if instinctually) also grabbed her hair at the same time completely taking control over her. When she felt my REAL slap on her face and me grabbing her hair overpowering her, it was like I had RELEASED a wild animal IN HEAT and the harder I slapped her and pulled her hair, the HARDER she rode me. I was completely shocked and appalled at myself not only for the fact that there I was "technically" abusing this woman I loved and she was absolutely LOVING every minute of it.

The worst and BEST PART for me at the same time was that the feeling was absolutely INCOMPREHENSIBLE and AMAZING for me as well. It was like the more I fed her her needs (roughness with her) the more she fed me MY NEEDS (seeing her ABSOLUTELY CRAZY with pleasure as I controlled her) and we became two people feeding each other our sexual energy and needs that eventually ended in us BOTH feeling indescribable.

That day was the day that I discovered in me something that I had ABSOLUTELY NEVER thought I would enjoy doing with a woman in the bedroom and from that moment forward I opened my mind to ANY possibility and promised myself that I would ALWAYS try it first before saying whether I liked it or not.

So to finish it up I can tell you that he'll need more than just a "talk" since you yourself are still discovering your kinky side. He'll need you to show him the "POSSIBILITIES" of what he can feel by guiding him into YOUR WORLD.

I highly recomend the following to help you both and hopefully with this information he will understand what your needs are.

There is a great book called "Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism" ( https://www.amazon.com/Screw-Roses-Send-Thorns-Sadomasochism/dp/0964596008 ) that will give you a lot of great information not only for yourself but also for him. You can both read it together and learn more about each other which will in turn help you one way or another.

There is also a few BDSM sites out there that you can join to meet like minded people that you can learn from as well. My prefered site is "fetlife.com". It's like a Facebook for kinksters.

Lastly please do keep in mind that there is a slight possibility that this "lifestyle" will be too much for him to handle since some men are VERY intimidated by this so he might not understand it altogether and think that you are crazy/odd/etc. BUT know that you ARE NOT ALONE in your needs and desires, there are a lot more people out there nowadays that are open minded about this and are willing to explore.

If it turns out that he is scared off by it, you can use the OK-Cupid dating site to date people that are in the same spectrum as you are since OKC let's you put it as part of your dating profile. I don't think that there are other dating sites that do it but OKC does. This will help since it'll filter out the "Vanilla " guys and you'll at least know that the people you date on that site will also have similar needs and desires like you.

Hope this helps!!

Good luck and have lots of fun!!

u/CaspianX2 · 2 pointsr/AskBDSM

Okay, first of all, there may be a cause/effect and there may not, but in either case, you want to be very careful if you talk about this with her, because you don't want to cause her to associate something enjoys with something that traumatized her.

So as for how to go about it, a few resources and a few suggestions. First, the resources:

If you want some good reading material about this, check out Screw the Roses and SM 101. These two books are among the most respected when it comes to this topic matter. You might also want to get yourself on Fetlife, a community you can use to look up more advice, perhaps even in specific areas.

Now, as for my own advice:

You two should start with something called Negotiation. This is a process where you decide what you'll be doing before you do anything. I know it seems sexy to be surprised, but you can cover a lot of ground so she won't necessarily be able to predict what you'll do, but know that whatever you do will be something you agree on.

Take some time to get a feel for different things you could do, and then find out from her what she's interested in, what she does not want to do, and what she isn't sure about. Maybe her idea of "violent" isn't the same as yours. You need to get a very clear idea of what she wants before you do anything.

One thing that it seems like just about every girl I've encountered seems to like is having their hair pulled, but it has to be done in a specific way - don't just grab a fistful and tug. Instead, put your hand flat against the back of her neck with your fingers pointed up and move your fingers up the neck and into the hair as close to the scalp as you can. When you're at the base of the scalp, grab a handful that's as close to the scalp as possible. Doing this feels better, isn't quite as painful, and gives you some good control over where to move the head. This way you can be more forceful without causing not-fun pain.

For any kind of new play, always start slow and as light as possible. You need to ease into it, both because she's still deciding what she does or doesn't like, and because even if someone likes something that doesn't mean they want to go from zero to sixty right off the bat.

Play using floggers, paddles, canes, or bare hands used to strike is referred to as "impact", and different people have different reactions to it depending on the location it is used on the body. Usually, the butt is a pretty safe bet for most kinds of impact, but there's also the boobs and inner thighs, and the genitals. Again, start light and gradually increase it to see what kind of response you get.

There's also light biting that you can do (again, gradually work your way up), and you can do nipple torture, tugging on them or flicking them - some girls like this, but some absolutely hate it, so be careful.

For face-slapping, you want to be careful with both your aim and how strong you hit. Again, start soft, and you need to be sure to get the cheek/side of the head. Be careful not to get the eyes, mouth, or jaw.

Finally, while you may be tempted to do some choking/breath play, be aware that this can be extremely dangerous, and you should read up on the risks associated with this before even considering it. I won't tell people outright not to do it, but be warned that it is not to be taken lightly.

Hopefully this is a good start for you. Good luck!

u/ended_world · 2 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

For online resources to explore your submissive side, you can check out www.submissiveguide.com.

Or if you prefer your research in hardback, others have recommended Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns as good remedial reading from a sub's perspective in a D/s dynamic.

u/TheBureau · 2 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

I've also heard good things about the one in Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns. There is a Domme in my community that actually uses the one in this book for every new submissive that she works with. She also recommends redoing it once every six months to see how your tastes have changed and what progress you've made.

Screw the Roses...

http://www.amazon.com/Screw-Roses-Send-Thorns-Sadomasochism/dp/0964596008

Hopefully these are at least a teensy bit helpful for you guys!

u/filthyikkyu · 2 pointsr/sex

I think a decent initial collection consisting of quality handcuffs, a wand for orgasm denial/forced orgasm, impact implements (or a wooden spoon or spatula from a discount store) a [ball gag] (http://www.stockroom.com/Silicone-Ball-Gag-with-Garment-Leather-Strap-P5371.aspx) and assorted pieces of rope hardware would keep the involuntary lubrication up for a while.

For literature I think Jay Wiseman's SM101 is a solid introductory foundation. A number of women within our munch groups prefer Philip Miller. For something more comprehensive try Different Loving: The World of Sexual Dominance and Submission.

u/Darr_Syn · 2 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

Oh no offense taken!

As I said, and I'd like to be clear about this, Wiseman does have a lot of great information to pass on to the 'scene. And I have, in fact, not only met the man but talked to him on more than one occasion and read just about everything that he's ever written.

So I don't tell people NOT to read him, I just don't like how he portrays much of the BDSM world. If you see the world differently than him you are just flat out wrong and shouldn't be involved in the BDSM scene. shrugs I'm not the first to make this accusation against him merely attempting to clarify the point.

So, as I stated Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns is typically the first book I suggest. It covers many different topics but none too in depth. This gives an honest and open view on the many different shades of what the BDSM world can contain.


There's also The Loving Dominant as a good read. It focuses on communication and the emotional bonds that are inherent to the scene as well as gives some practical advice in regards to scene structure and daily life of a TPE.

Both the Bottoming and the Topping book are worth reading if for no other reason than to see another perspective.

There's The Control Book which goes a bit deeper into the mentality of each side of the dynamic with a focus on the dom (obviously).

Those are pretty much my go to resources for someone that's new. Beyond that there are all kinds of different books and articles out there but I've always found that with these as a base of information the next step should always be discussion with others. This thing we do is so personalized that I do not think that any one person or author will have THE ANSWER. It might well be the answer for THEM, but rarely will it be the answer for all. So talking to others about the theory of BDSM or the culture of the lifestyle will typically help expand what one knows about it as a whole so they can make up their own minds.

u/thechort · 2 pointsr/BDSMcommunity

What I'm saying is you need to have a detailed discussion (many detailed discussions) about her fantasies and yours, then implement them in reality. I can't tell you what you're into, or what she's in to, only you can do that. EDIT: this means more than what toys you like... BDSM means Bondage and discipline, Dominance and Submission, Sadism and Masochism. There's a lot to unpack there if you're interested in various parts of it.

On a purely practical level, handkercheifs and ties are pretty good for beginner restraints, or you could get some cheap-ish cuff type restraints (I've heard good things about the under the bed system.)

Might also help you out to do some reading and get ideas, The classic intro to BDSM is Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns If you can get your hands on a copy I recommend it highly.

EDIT: added a little to the first paragraph.

u/Boddicker · 1 pointr/BDSMcommunity

My two cents, Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism, should be mandatory reading for anyone just getting into it.

u/twentyfivecharacters · 1 pointr/DeadBedrooms

I keep re-writing this comment and not being able to get it right. To answer your question: My husband's and my deadbedroom situation is rooted 100% in his fundamentalist Christian upbringing and the amount of sexuality he suppressed through his life. The guilt he felt used to literally make him go soft mid-sexy time. We had a lot of serious struggles and probably argued more about sex than we ever have about money. I think he wanted to have sex, but was super uncertain about initiating anything or doing anything too wild or crazy. I think he carried/carries a lot of guilt still, for having sexual urges.

Our story is playing out a touch differently because he found me (queer-poly-atheist-stoner with college credits towards being a sex therapist) and I have always been really sexually open, am very sexually experienced, and have done a lot of research and heard of a lot of other people's personal sexual diversities. I try to be very patient (but won't lie, I've also cried in moments of frustration because I am human and am far from perfect) and I think that helps.

Our biggest help is outside resources. If you don't mind, I'll list the links to some:

  • Even he really enjoyed this graphic novel called Sex is Fun!
  • As though he didn't know, I bought him Just Fuck Me - What Women want Men to Know about Taking Control in the Bedroom
  • Testing my luck, I also got him Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns, but I'm into that sort of thing.

    I also have lots of fun bedroom accessories, so that he would have less pressure on performing with the gear he comes with, and more on just having fun in general.

    It is a very, very long journey. He tells me constantly though, that he is so glad he found me, and didn't marry the type of Christian girl his parents hoped he would find (and would be just like his mom) because then he'd have his parent's type of sex life.. and.. they're miserable, and his mother clearly doesn't have orgasms.

    Best of luck to you sir, in whatever you do. Please, please, please, my true advice is to reach out! Subreddits, books, friends, professionals, etc all have folks that have had more sex than you, and lots of them will talk about it. There is no need to feel as though you have to invent sex.
u/ArcaneShrine · 1 pointr/sex

This!

Screw the Roses is available used. For under $15, you get an awful lot of good information in one place.

u/BohemianPunk · 1 pointr/bdsm

Reading:
Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns
The New Topping Book
SM 101 by Jay Wiseman
SlaveCraft

Those are some good ones to start with. Once you hit Amazon related titles will be listed below. :)

u/helleborus · 1 pointr/entertainment

> just as soon as I figure out how


Get this book and look at it with your wife. If you guys feel too shy to do this together, have her look at it and bookmark anything that she finds intriguing.

u/Office_Zombie · 1 pointr/SoCalR4R

Um...No. I had a girlfriend once that I tried to learn BDSM for; and you really want an experienced Dom. There are safety issues involved. Circulation, permanent injury, good knots, bad knots, warming up the skin, head-games....

We stayed friends and she got a real Dom later and it was litterally night and day experience for her.

If I may, do yourself two favors. Use and expreinced Dom; and get a copy of Screw the Roses Send Me the Thorns.

It's BDSM 101 and covers a lot of great ground. (And don't be fooled by the cover, it's not a coffee table book.)

Good Luck.

u/SpeedyAF · 1 pointr/bdsm

You can also read some books. I like "Screw the Roses, send me the thorns", as a good beginners and medium resource.

https://www.amazon.com/Screw-Roses-Send-Thorns-Sadomasochism/dp/0964596008

The author is very experienced, and can explain things well.

u/Mistress-Alice · 1 pointr/FemdomCommunity

So, I don't know if what I have to say is at all helpful, and mostly I wanted to comment because I'm a little jealous at your willingness to server, lately it feels like my "puppy" is just along for the ride...but enough about me.

As far as being a new dom and books... I read a wide variety of both informational and fantasy books. I think a mix of both gave me many more ideas and options to think about and it was easier for me to pick things I liked that way. BUT The number one thing that helped was getting online and watching/reading information from other doms and subs. Asking questions and so on. I'm sorry I don't have actual book names for you. (If I think of specific ones I will get back to you!)

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mistress-Manual-Female-Dominance/dp/1890159190/ref=cm_lmf_tit_3

http://www.amazon.com/The-Sexually-Dominant-Woman-Beginners/dp/1890159115/ref=cm_lmf_tit_7

http://www.amazon.com/Screw-Roses-Send-Thorns-Sadomasochism/dp/0964596008/ref=cm_lmf_tit_9

Just a few to look into. :) ALL great for just getting started, and learning more about herself, her wants/needs, her sexuality...so on. Good Luck and Kink ON! :D

u/NowIDontCare · 1 pointr/BDSMAdvice

It used to be available free online, a long time ago. This is the best one I have read, though it has been awhile so others may be around now. Next, I would suggest Jay Wiseman's SM:101, he has others as well. And if you ever delve into rope...Midori.
Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism https://www.amazon.com/dp/0964596008/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_jUWKBbZKN86GN

u/always-there · 1 pointr/books

Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism (Amazon link)

u/Kreetard · 1 pointr/BDSMcommunity

Read lots of books.

And also communicate!

u/VexingVendibles · 1 pointr/Random_Acts_Of_Amazon

So, I don't know what you're in to, but I enjoyed this book when it came to just a general thing. There's also the Bottoming Book, which I have read, but they have the Topping Book, which I have not read yet. I've heard really good things about this book and this one.