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Reddit mentions of Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work

Sentiment score: 21
Reddit mentions: 31

We found 31 Reddit mentions of Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work. Here are the top ones.

Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work
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Found 31 comments on Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work:

u/IAMTHEDEATHMACHINE · 43 pointsr/TheRedPill

As someone who has gone to college, graduated, and joined the workforce, I can say without question that I wish I hadn't gone.

I had lucrative Navy offers on the table and was also considering trade schools. Instead, I chose to go to a 4-year private university that offered me some scholarship money because it had been drummed into my head that college was the only way to succeed. I didn't know what I wanted to do in life, and I ended up with a poli sci degree and about $40K in debt (even after the scholarships). Useless.

Now, I have friends in the military who are doing great (in or out). I have friends who work in the oilfields, who are mechanics, who are welders, plumbers, electricians, etc... all doing very well personally and financially. And here's the kicker:

Most of them work their 40 and go home. If they work more, they make more. Lots more. They feel a sense of accomplishment when they complete a physical task with tangible results.

Me, I work as many hours as it takes. For the same money, no matter what. My job is ambiguous, the results often unclear. It's sad.

Check out the book Shop Class as Soulcraft if you're more interested in this disparity. But be careful, as it will make you want to quit your job and become a welder, carpenter, electrician, or mechanic.

Also, it's tough to justify going to college when some 50% (ish) of guys my age are un- or under-employed, despite their degrees. Part of that is guys (like me) getting dumb degrees. A larger part of that is that the college education that our parents/advisors enjoyed doesn't pay us the same benefits as it did them.

u/williamsates · 14 pointsr/conspiracy

I will echo what was already written, but I will address two major points. The first is your acute state of mental health, and the second is philosophical background on the question you asked concerning work.

If you are having suicidal ideation than you need to get help to stabilize. If its possible, talk to professionals, and develop a support network if possible, that knows how you feel. You need to disconnect from the 'conspiracy' world a bit, and focus on something positive. Enjoy nature, and engage in some activity where you are physically moving with people you love.

Books that are topical and I found very helpful, center around what the meaning of 'work', as a category that structures our world as it actually is. The first books is [Shop Class as Soulcraft]
(https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/0143117467). In this work, the author, who actually worked for a Global Warming denial propaganda farm before quitting, engages in an exploration of the difference between skilled manual labor and unskilled labor, and what the differences are for being a human.

The second book, I am somewhat apprehensive to post, but I think it is really insightful. That is the 1844 Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of Marx, especially the section called, " Estranged Labour". It is an exploration of what work really is, as an activity that connects human beings, where we satisfy each others needs, and in doing so reproduce a social organism, and it is an exploration how we become alienated, and how these activities start to appear as forces outside of our control, that control us, and are deeply exploitative. They don't have to be that way.

I hope this was somewhat helpful, and I hope you feel better soon.

u/heyeurydice · 12 pointsr/GenderCritical

I read a book a few months ago that touched on that point (the author seemed like an ass though). The gist was that as we've shifted away from work with tangible things, we've lost our sense of purpose and meaning in our work. A report on a business goal can be changed and tweaked to the point that any result appears like a success. But if you build a wooden table and it's not level, it's objectively not a success. Making it level brings you fulfillment because you've succeeded at something with no abstraction, unlike the other guy who can just move the goalposts in their fantasy world. We can grow most at the level with the least abstraction.

u/thebrightsideoflife · 9 pointsr/economy

>That's because it became an alternative to public schools. Trade skills have been privatized, from education to job placement.

Only because public schools quit teaching it. The mandate from the federal level came forth that ALL students should be taught to a standard in preparation for going to college. The result was the gutting of "shop class" for classes that teach to the test. It didn't happen overnight. It took a couple of decades to shift the public perception that public schools shouldn't teach some kids just to be farmers or auto mechanics because EVERYBODY should be lined up to go into the highly profitable higher education market.

here's a good book on the need for shop class and why we shouldn't be teaching everyone to work in white collar jobs.

u/darthrevan · 8 pointsr/Economics

It's a messed up situation all around. While having a college degree may not get you a job, not having one cripples you in today's job market.

But this doesn't speak to the quality of the jobs. People with degrees may be getting the jobs, but those jobs are probably paying much less than today's graduates think they would (or should) earn. With all the debt they assume to get the degree to get the job, this just keeps them on a treadmill of forever paying off student loans. So "getting the job" does not translate to "happily ever after," either.

Personally I think going to a technical/trade school is looking like a better choice by the day. Much less upfront investment (keeping you out of any major debt), you're more likely to land decently-paid work right away, and you probably will find as much--if not more--job satisfaction (if you agree with this book).

u/SnowblindAlbino · 7 pointsr/OldSchoolCool

It was a confluence of influences: post-war access to higher education made "manual arts" (i.e. blue collar labor) less appealing to the growing middle class, unions declined from the 1970s forward (further undercutting such work), the trades in general have been devalued through emphasis on white collar work, machines/robots replaced many line jobs in factories, we stopped making "stuff" domestically, and probably most importantly, all those white-collar dads among the Boomers were simply unable/uninterested in teaching their kids any of the skills once reflected in "shop" classes.

Add in major liability concerns about letting kids handle real tools, the cost of insurance, the cost of facilities, and in more recent years the pernicious influence of No Child Left Behind (which only values "skills" that can be assessed through standardized tests) and you see the end of shop class in general.

There's a great discussion of these general trends and the value of manual labor in the book Shopcraft as Soulcraft that I highly recommend.

u/WhiskyTangoSailor · 6 pointsr/findapath

Not much here to offer in the way of advice but thought I'd express a bit of sympathy. I'm an electrician and naturally persuade people into working in a skilled trade. Maybe something to consider over retail until you get your ideal gig. Maybe climb the chain of another field of interest using existing skills while acquiring more. I love my job, fresh air, no customers, exercise, feeling of accomplishments... I'm testing for my Master Electrical License and would love to have your skills in addition to my own to aid in getting my company going and looking more professional right off the bat.

Best of luck friend, life isn't defined by falling down, it's defined by how you get back up. Read this while you ponder how you'll get back up http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/0143117467

u/opie2 · 6 pointsr/self

My point is that teachers are underpaid. That, and we have never put a high enough value on the trades. High schools across the country have shut down their wood, metal, and industrial arts shops and are spending tons of money on technology. For a great alternate take on the value and importance of being able to work with your hands, see Shop Class as Soul Craft.

u/Kresley · 4 pointsr/TrollXChromosomes

> home server programming

Pfffft. That just sounds like setting up your home wifi and how we used to set up a LAN to share all our mp3s in a dorm/frat house.

But, for him, I'd think this or this or an AutoZone gift card.

u/Daleth2 · 4 pointsr/Parenting

Maybe get this book, read it, and if you like it as much as I think you will, give it to Nina to read. It was written by a PhD who quit a high-paying think tank job to open his own motorcycle repair shop. It makes a very compelling case for the value of skilled craftsmanship and labor, and for the idea that these sorts of jobs can never be outsourced, while most of the jobs you need a university degree for can and will be outsourced.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/0143117467

u/[deleted] · 3 pointsr/cars

Also, it gives you a purpose and a lot more stisfaction than just forking over money. If you think alike, you might also want to read this ;).

u/electriple · 2 pointsr/motorcycles

That and Shop Class as Soulcraft are my two favorites!

u/DWShimoda · 2 pointsr/MGTOW

>I lost my confidence self esteem and my communication skills aren't as good and stuff.


--
Get out and do something that has OBJECTIVE and VISIBLE results -- something that you can have some PRIDE in simply having been a part of creating...

--
Usually one of the easiest/best paths to that is "building/making" (even repairing/fixing) something physical -- that is working WITH your hands as well as your brain -- even if you're just a day laborer assistant on some small project, and starting out low-level, low pay (you don't have to make a "career" out of it; just get SOME experience doing it... guarantee you it'll give you a sense of accomplishment & value, in ways that no "schooling" or "office" bullshit ever can or will).

--
I've got nothing against "digital" work (programming, etc -- been in that industry myself) -- but IMO one of the worst aspects of the "trends" the past couple of decades has been how the schooling system has so MASSIVELY denigrated "blue collar" work, "manual labor", "trades" and etc. -- among other things it's an INdirect attack on masculinity.

--
Check out Matt Crawfords' books, especially "Shop Class as SoulCraft" for some idea of how that can DRAMATICALLY alter your way of seeing the world (and not least of all, yourself).

u/Q3ZTop · 2 pointsr/woodworking

There is a great book, Shop Class as Soul Craft.

I would highly recommend it for you and your students as well.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0143117467/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_awdb_t1_7tf0Cb1Z48XY6

u/knifie_sp00nie · 2 pointsr/woodworking

Not pure woodworking, but I this book was enjoyable- https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/0143117467

u/StarWolve · 2 pointsr/motorcycles

Here's a list, off the top of my head - I know all these are on my bookshelf, but I'm probably missing a few more:

Hell's Angel: The Life and Times of Sonny Barger and the Hell's Angels Motorcycle Club by Sonny Barger

Freedom: Credos from the Road by Sonny Barger

Ridin' High, Livin' Free: Hell-Raising Motorcycle Stories by Ralph Sonny Barger

Dead in 5 Heartbeats by Sonny Barger

Under and Alone by William Queen

No Angel: My Harrowing Undercover Journey to the Inner Circle of the Hells Angels by Jay Dobyns

Hell's Angels: A Strange and Terrible Saga (Modern Library) by Hunter S. Thompson

Street Justice by Chuck Zito

The Original Wild Ones: Tales of the Boozefighters Motorcycle Club by Bill Hayes

Ghost Rider: Travels on the Healing Road by Neil Peart

The Masked Rider: Cycling in West Africa by Neil Peart

Against the Wind: A Rider's Account of the Incredible Iron Butt Rally by Ron Ayres

Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work by Matthew B. Crawford

Honda CB750: The Complete Story by Mark Haycoc

Shovelhead Red The Drifter's Way by Roy Yelverton

Shovelhead Red-Ridin' Out by Roy Yelverton

A Twist of the Wrist 2: The Basics of High-Performan​ce Motorcycle Riding by Keith Code

Total Control: High Performance Street Riding Techniques by Lee Parks


Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values by Robert M. Pirsig - Still my favorite. A high school english teacher bought it for me when he found out I had just passed my motorcycle road test. I've read it at least 15 times, and get something new from it each time.


But the best recommendation - Buy the FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL for your bike and read it. Read it often, until you can almost turn to the exact page for each procedure.

u/albino-rhino · 2 pointsr/AskCulinary

I'll answer very briefly, but /u/NoraTC covered a lot of really important things, the biggest being the variation in work. I'm answering as a line cook in what most would consider a good, upscale restaurant.

Working as a cook is both a tremendously rewarding and challenging proposition. The hours and schedule and pay aren't good. Many of your co-workers will be derelicts. It is hard, repetitive, stressful work. On the average day, you'll get there a couple hours before service (whether that means 4:00 am or 2:00 pm) and you'll get your station set. If your restaurant has lunch and dinner, you'll hope the person working the opposite shift didn't screw you over by using all your mise en place (abbreviated to meez generally). If so, hope you're good at what we'll call dispute resolution techniques. You need to make sure you're set for that day and you're staying ahead for the next few days too. Are there parties coming up? Better make sure you have what you need. If you have to rely on a sous chef to help you get set, it's bad news. The whole time, you'll be working quickly.

You eventually get to the point where your hands know what to do and your mind can wander a little. But you'll get done at whatever time and then go home exhausted. Usually, the managerial style is brusque. People get fired; practical jokes are played. The best source is Bill Buford's Heat, which is also an excellent read.

But despite its less great qualities, working in a kitchen can be really rewarding. It's satisfying to make stuff with your hands. See e.g. Shop Class as Soulcraft for more on this topic. The folks you'll work with form a real sense of camaraderie. It teaches you a lot about life. Am I glad I did it? Absolutely. I'm probably even happier I'm done with it.

Edit: One of the things that's really rewarding, but I didn't touch on above, is knowing you can do it. There's a lot in life where you get a participation award. In a kitchen, it's not like that. If you're good, you survive, then you thrive, then you move to a new station and figure shit out all over again. If you can't cut it, you're out.

u/0xdada · 2 pointsr/TheRedPill

Interesting thing about bikes, they get your adrenaline up, but also get cortisol up as well.

Burning through traffic at 100+mph is awesome, but guys who just get off their bikes tend to have their eyes bulging out of their heads. Great for energy, but the extra good vibes don't really come until you've come down. Someone advised me against getting a panigale because it would roast my nads, and there are motorcycle related ED issues with some models.

If you are going to ride, get involved with the new wave custom scene by getting a cheap machine and building it out. The physical knowledge will be the real transformative aspect. If you are intellectual, read "Shopclass as Soulcraft," and check out sites like BikeExif to get the idea.

Also, mandatory viewing includes:

u/Pilot_Tim · 1 pointr/GetMotivated

http://amzn.com/0143117467

Shop Class as Soulcraft!

u/GaryOster · 1 pointr/IAmA

Thanks for that!

> The work of builders and mechanics is secure; it cannot be outsourced, and it cannot be made obsolete. Such work ties us to the local communities in which we live, and instills the pride that comes from doing work that is genuinely useful.

On Amazon

u/Heretick · 1 pointr/AskReddit

If the idea of that kind of workplace scares you (and it is a realistic depiction), pick up a copy of this book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0143117467/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1594202230&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1042PF1K7R3TC6WVVACX

It can be a bit dense at times, but it nails a ton of issues that the current workforce is facing. Separation of thought from work, "production" of only abstracts, etc. GREAT book.

u/Tony3696 · 1 pointr/HVAC

Learn a trade any you’ll never go hungry. If you know what you’re doing, you’ll always be able to find a job. As far as pay goes, it depends on where you live. I’m in New England and make around $100k/year with overtime and bonuses doing 100% residential. Drawbacks are long hours in bad weather - both hot and cold, you’re the oncall guy for your family, friends, neighbors, etc., carrying equipment up stairs, ladders, through attics, across rooftops, etc., and dealing with idiots. It’s worth it? Absolutely! If you’re trying to decide between learning a trade vs going to collage read this book, it’ll give you some perspective from someone hat been in both sides of the fence.

Edit: correct link below
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0143117467/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top_nodl?ie=UTF8

u/HeyDep · 1 pointr/ProtectAndServe

I think part-time police work would indeed be an option, primarily in small rural towns.

You mention your desire to interact with real people and contribute to society in a positive manner. I wonder....how important is it to you to work in the field and "get your hands dirty", so to speak? I suspect social work (Child Protective Services comes to mind) might offer these things in spades.

Side thought: Check out this book: http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/0143117467

That book changed the way I look at the world, and I bet you'd get something out of it, as well.

u/cerrophym · 1 pointr/jobs

I read this book Shop Class as Soulcraft than you may be interested in. It touches on a lot of the issues you mention and I recommend reading it to help sort out exactly what kind of work it is that you want to do.

www.nytimes.com/2009/06/07/books/review/Fukuyama-t.html

www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/0143117467

u/tgeliot · 1 pointr/AskReddit

There's a wonderful book called Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work. One of the things I learned from it was that shop class was invented to try to instill a sense of craftsmanship and pride into a population that had known only soul-numbing assembly-line work, so that they would do a better job at the soul-numbing assembly-line work.

u/needanewjobthrowaway · 1 pointr/pics

Relevant, and a great read.

u/slakwhere · 1 pointr/woodworking

also in IT, checking in. Just finished re-reading this book which does a pretty great job of explaining why us IT types are drawn to physical creation in our free time. also available in audio book if you like to listen to stuff in the shop. really worth a read. it will change the way you think about business today.

http://smile.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/0143117467?sa-no-redirect=1

u/sew_butthurt · 1 pointr/AskMen

I highly recommend reading this:
http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/0143117467

The basic premise is that paper-pushing isn't intrinsically satisfying, but being able to point at tangible accomplishments at the end of the day is.

u/maximiliankm · 1 pointr/JordanPeterson

Before I begin, let me say this: in asking this question at your age, you are several spots away from the bottom of the totem pole.

This is not to say "oh don't worry about out, you're still young." You need to be serious about becoming competent, but very few people are competent at anything meaningful at your age, and very, very few fields require that you be already competent by age 19 (most of the fields that do require this are things like sports or music, which are so competitive that you basically have to grow up with it). So you're not behind. I think the above comments have been useful, but incomplete. Yes, your mentality is of the upmost importance here, but you do need things to do. Especially if you have interest in trades.

I'll tell you a little bit about myself. When I was 19, I was finishing a degree in automotive technology. I was working as an entry level technician and a cook, and I had plans to attend the University of Northwestern Ohio for a Bachelors in High-Performance Motorsports, which would have put me among the most elite technicians in the country, where I would have been able to get into just about any kind of motorsports I wanted.

Now I'm 23. I have a Bachelors, but not from UNOH. I completely switched fields. When I was 20, I found myself drawn toward Philosophy and Literature, and so I completely dropped motorsports as a career path. I'd spent 2 years getting my associates, I'd spent tons of money on tools, I'd studied to pass ASE certifications test, but I dropped it all, went back to school and got my Bachelors with a double major in English and Philosophy. I'm now working for a while, and I'll be going back to graduate school next year to get my PhD. I'll probably be 27-28 years old before I have real, meaningful competency. This time frame has been a real challenge, since I'm impatient, and don't want to waste my 20's. Here's how I handle it: I love what I'm doing in the academic world (I'm starting a podcast soon just because I can't get enough of philosophy), and so hypothetically, I would be okay with doing it even if it never paid off financially (and it's a humanities PhD, so that's not unlikely).

Your goal, at least for the next couple of years, should be to figure out what you either already love, or what you are likely to come to love if you tried it. Very, very, very few people do this, and so they end up being moderately competent in something that they don't hate, and require all kinds of other things to make their life meaningful. Let me emphasize that this is absolutely, not a bad thing, and if you really think that creative pursuits are your thing, you may want to find an additional career to pay for your creative work.

In any case, you can almost certainly find things that you love without college (though you may need it once you get started). In fact, college often gives a distorted view of what the field is really like. Take psychology, for example. The world of acutally practicing psychologists is radically different than psych-academia, and if you used college classes with postmodern profs to gauge whether you'd like psychology, you might falsely assume that your practice will consist of talking to transgendered sexually abused black handicapped gay attack helicopters rather than the real client base. If you find you want to be an academic, then...sorry fo ya.

What I would do is expose yourself to as much as possible. Try something as simple as youtube. If, for example, you find that you like watching youtube videos of motorcycles, maybe you should try going to a race or a bike show, or reading a book about it. Keep in mind though, that it takes real engagement (more than just youtube) to see if it's something you could learn to love.

Notice I said "learn to love." The reason for this is that its perfectly likely that you won't absolutely love anything. Most people are like that. It's maybe 1/1000 people that naturally know instantly that they love something that they end up doing for the rest of their lives. Let's go back to motorcycles. Maybe you know nothing about them, but you know that you're analytical, so you might like diagnosing them, and you have an adrenaline-junkie streak, so you might like riding them, but right now you know so little about them that you don't really feel any particular way toward them. You need to have the self-awareness to know what kinds of things you might like. If you're analytical but don't have the adrenaline junkie in you, then maybe you need to try being a boat mechanic, because of how much you've enjoyed time on the river, and the people you've met who are also into boats.

One last thing. You may have noticed that I have a soft spot for mechanical things. I noticed that you said you may be interested in the trades. If what I've been saying resonates with you, I highly, highly, HIGHLY recommend reading at least one of the following books by Matthew Crawford: either Shop Class as Soulcraft or The World Beyond Your Head. They're truly unconventional ways of thinking, and unlike what your high school counselor or typical self-help are likely to teach you.

u/forest-turtle · 1 pointr/Buddhism

You must really love what you do to put that much of your life into it. It's great that it lead you to Buddhism too. If you want to share the info on your store, I'll be sure to check you first if I ever need some quality wood work. I'm in the market for a house/home at the moment, so I'm pretty serious. Do you build tinyhouses?

Also, here's a book I've never read, but it looks like its right up your alley:

Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work

https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/0143117467/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485716747&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=shoplass+as+soulcraft