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Reddit mentions of The Classical Trivium: The Place of Thomas Nashe in the Learning of His Time

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Reddit mentions: 4

We found 4 Reddit mentions of The Classical Trivium: The Place of Thomas Nashe in the Learning of His Time. Here are the top ones.

The Classical Trivium: The Place of Thomas Nashe in the Learning of His Time
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Found 4 comments on The Classical Trivium: The Place of Thomas Nashe in the Learning of His Time:

u/ababababa8000 · 25 pointsr/C_S_T

in the medieval period it was widely understood that every single word, except the word word, is a metaphor (that is, a carrying across)

grammar is much more than acquiring knowledge - it is context & structure as an art & science. the early stoics referred to it as the "logos spermatikos" (or the seed of a word). if you're looking for something's etymology or order (questions like who said it?, what was said?, under what premises?) -- you're dealing with grammar.

grammar & rhetoric working together in "sacred eloquence" (through well-proportioned analogy) became the charter for Christian education from st. augustine up through the renaissance. at this point, the printing press set grammar (or letters) in a brand new context that many took for granted, leading to much confusion in the west. . .

opposed to this method throughout time were those who believed that the book-of-the-world was best interpreted directly through logic or dialectics - trying to nail words down into translatable forms (like number for instance). . .

marshall mcluhan wrote about all this for his phd, which outlines these controversies between the ancients (grammar & rhetoric) and moderns (dialectic) through different periods in western history -- very much worth a read if you're interested in the trivium.

https://www.amazon.com/Classical-Trivium-Place-Thomas-Learning/dp/1584232358

i'm pretty interested in grammar, so i'm interested in the fact that aristotle never said the quote in the sidebar (and curious how it got there . . .)

u/noveltymc · 5 pointsr/CriticalTheory

Pretty clumsy altogether. There's a bit too many 'half-quotes' and unfounded assertions (McLuhan as fascist? Nope). Here's just one--

>The same man who claimed, in 1963, that our era “is the greatest in human history” had been decrying, only a few years before,

The full quote (unless the article, which doesn't cite a source, is using a different one) is from 1968 in a televised panel interview with Malcolm Muggeridge, Norman Mailer & Robert Fulford:

>McLuhan: Well, for heaven’s sake, this present time we’re moving into, this electric age, is the dawn of much the greatest of all human ages. There’s nothing to even remotely resemble the scope of human
awareness and human –

>Fulford: Now that's a value judgment.

>McLuhan: No, this is quantity. Most people make their judgments in terms of quality. I’m merely saying, quantitatively, this is by far the greatest human age. What further valuations would you wish to make?

>Fulford: Oh, I thought when you said “greatest” you meant the finest, that is –

>McLuhan: No.

Just as Neil Postman, WIRED, Douglas Coupland and the rest of McLuhans 'disciples' (whether they are 'general semanticists' or 'transhumanists') did not understand him one bit, nor do his critics then or now.

Any confusion as to Marshall's intention with his work stemmed from his image. He was, at the heart of it, a Renaissance scholar who desperately sought after a return of Grammar school in the Trivial sense - as the millenium-spanning tradition of learning faded out of fashion in Queen Elizabeth's England.

>“I am resolutely opposed to all innovation, all change, but I am determined to understand what’s happening. Because I don’t choose just to sit and let the juggernaut roll over me. Many people seem to think that if you talk about something recent, you’re in favor of it. The exact opposite is true in my case. Anything I talk about is almost certainly something I’m resolutely against. And it seems to me the best way to oppose it is to understand it. And then you know where to turn off the buttons.”

Anybody who hopes to seriously understand where Marshall was coming from (still quite saliently) ought to read his PhD thesis, which was just recently published - along with Media & Formal Cause.

https://www.amazon.com/Media-Formal-Cause-Marshall-McLuhan/dp/0983274703

https://www.amazon.com/Classical-Trivium-Place-Thomas-Learning/dp/1584232358/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=QPXK93Q8BM41YR61KNCC

u/[deleted] · 3 pointsr/C_S_T

You started off quoting (devout Catholic) Marshall McLuhan, and then continue by citing everybody he was refuting throughout his entire work (Count Korzybski and his 'General Semantics', which was the name they came to AFTER 'Human Engineering').

More accurately, you quoted WIRED Magazine's in-house McLuhan fanboy Kevin Kelly, who was clumsily stumbling out a paraphrase from Understanding Media:

>"Man becomes, as it were, the sex organs of the machine world, as the bee of the plant world, enabling it to fecundate and to evolve ever new forms. The machine world reciprocates man's love by expediting his wishes and desires, namely, in providing him with wealth."

https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Media-Extensions-Marshall-McLuhan/dp/0262631598

McLuhan believed, like any good Catholic always has, that this world is a 'simulation'.

If you're interested in Joyce, McLuhan's the Gutenberg Galaxy is an incredible read (original title was: The Road to Finnegan's Wake). McLuhan always said no one could ever hope to comprehend the modern world unless they'd read the Wake, out loud. Luckily, he did that for us so we don't have to :)

https://www.amazon.com/Gutenberg-Galaxy-Marshall-McLuhan/dp/144261269X

Television Kills Telephony in Brother's Broil!

>"By consistently embracing all these technologies, we inevitably relate ourselves to them as servomechanisms. Thus, in order to make use of them at all, we must serve them as we do gods. The Eskimo is a servomechanism of his kayak, the cowboy of his horse, the businessman of his clock, the cyberneticist — and soon the entire world — of his computer. In other words, to the spoils belongs the victor."

Re: your Yesod link-- it's a dense read, but...

https://www.amazon.com/Classical-Trivium-Place-Thomas-Learning/dp/1584232358

u/ababababa9000 · 1 pointr/C_S_T

love you man :)

With all due respect to the conclusion you've made - the research I've done leaves me with no doubt that the Catholic Church is the true bride of Christ, the defender of the faith through the ages - and the gates of hell shall not come upon it. It took a long time for me to come to this realization (as an avid conspiracy person), but when I did it was precisely the sort of profound tear-inducing disbelief at my own obliviousness. That not only does God love his children, but that he trusted his weakest apostle with the keys to His kingdom and revealed the purpose of the name he had given him. It is the joy of knowing that through faith this world is not completely lost. This is a collection of people who have and maintain this feeling regularly.

Marshall McLuhan put it best when he said "you can tell when somebody has left the Church, they've stopped praying." Faith is a mode of perception that makes life infinitely more joyful and fulfilling. I have been growing through this faith, thinking twice about my actions before I do them, and always looking for where I may find a hint of God's will for my life.

It is worth noting that the Church has never formally adopted ANY gnostic dogma of self-enlightenment (the chief lie of the Prince of this World, as you rightly point). Though the controversies initially rose within the medieval church among early apocalyptic Franciscans and Cathars after the crusades; Jesuits who stole the patristic education of the trivium and locked it into private life and confidentiality, there is still a staggering amount of holy work that has been done. The Church even officially disbanded the Jesuits, and if it weren't for Catherine the Great's sanctuary for them in Russia in the 19th century, they would've been completely stamped out from the church altogether. Unfortunately they were a large part of Vatican II. The point is, it may not be worth throwing the baby out with the bath water.

History, grammar, the story of continuity to the point in life where we find ourselves is essential to any new learning, or making. We will get much better ideas of where we should go when we can retrace steps and see how we got here. This grammar, this continuity comes tied to our memory. every human is designed with faith of God. We simply have to remember who we are.

For this, I could not recommend ANY more (as I always always do here) Marshall McLuhan's doctorate, which is basically a trivium that winds up being the story of the Catholic Church idealizing holy civilization.

https://www.amazon.com/Classical-Trivium-Place-Thomas-Learning/dp/1584232358

People have been kept from the Truth; because the Truth will set them free. This is why they are called Liberal Arts. When they are not directed inward, as Masons and Jesuits and countless hallucinating others would have it, but instead the arts are directed to God through Christ... it is why we say He is the source of all supernatural gifts.

McLuhan said about the times he lived in: "we've adopted the attitudes of the Renaissance controversialists without ever learning what those controversies were originally about." and "Just why the medieval fourfold-exegesis method of the patristic school slowly faded over the years of the late Renaissance has never been explained and deserves its own study."

If the controversies began within the church, they can be defended against within the church.

The patristic tradition of the Catholic Church from Augustine to Erasmus calls us to live in constant search of new learning. learning various kingdoms, having helpful stories of distant lands & times at the tips of our fingers, and how to arrange them in ways to inspire devotion and true involvement from the free will of the listener, all in service of guiding them towards salvation.

The Gnostics want everybody to live conceptually, that is, stuck in frozen patterns of their own making. Ludwig Wittgenstein pointed out to all the best philosophers that by their nature, all of their notions were the OPPOSITE of reality, truth & actuality because it is a still snapshot of a naturally dynamic process. The Gnostics have always feared people who live free from ideas that freeze them. This is only possible for a Christian, because it is this infinite mystery (not mystic, but a sober recollection and expounding of true experience) is precisely why he died for every single one of us.

love and respect my brother. your post will save many souls here.