Reddit mentions of The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert

Don't make blanket statements. Don't say "you never care about anything I say." Say "I feel like you weren't really listening to me when I was talking earlier." Don't make it an attack on each other's character, just address the specific problem.

Don't make contemptuous statements, either. Respect each other and stick to talking about the problem, not tearing each other down or being manipulative.

Make "repair attempts." If things are going a really negative direction, find something that'll stop it and return you guys to a more positive state of mind. This can range from an explicit "I think we should both calm down and come back to this" to making a silly face or hugging your SO. Find a way to de-escalate the situation.

Edit: if you guys want to know where I got this advice, read this book. My SO and I are reading it pre-marriage and it's awesome.

> I enjoy giving blow jobs even if I'm not sexually aroused

The problem here seems to be that you're seeing the problem through your lens, not his. In other words, you're comparing his response to what YOU would do, not why he's refusing to do it.

You might find a lot of value in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797

I found it amazingly insightful, especially in helping communicate together. It contains exercises that you can do together, so it's a together-book, not something you read in isolation. Good luck, hopefully you guys can work together to find a solution that works for both of you, whatever that is.

I feel like you are making excuses because there have to be plenty of options here. You say she supported you to have a good career. What do you do with your vacation time? If you have none for some reason, can you get some leave without pay? Can you find a new job that allows you to be around her more, even if you earn less money? Is there a university closer to home, or can you move to where she is? Can she study online?

She says she doesn't know if she can feel that way for you again. That doesn't mean she can't, it means that she is confused. Like I said, this is a crossroads. You either try like hell to fix things or she will leave you. First step, get yourself to marriage counseling, or at the very least buy yourself '7 Principles for Making Marriage Work' and read through it with her. Second step, plan a vacation or at the very least spend some time away from work to romance her properly. Spoil her a little. Write her a letter explaining how much she means to you and how you don't want to lose her. Talk. Laugh. Love. Third step, find a way for her to fulfill her dreams, preferably with you or her relocating so you are closer by. However if she lives apart from you for a while, so be it. If you don't let her fulfill her dreams with you, she will leave and do it without you.

Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but you have to try if you love her and want to be with her.

> When I once mentioned the figures to her in the past she denied them as made up or only reported by the horny few who wanted to brag.

Assuming you're in the 30-39 age bracket, roughly somewhere between 80 and 95% of couples are having more sex than you. The Normal Bar gives similar (independently obtained) data (but unfortunately doesn't give a detailed breakdown). Don't bring this up with your wife unless she actually starts disputing whether your sex life is normal.

Here is what worked (sort of) for me:

• Watch The Sex Starved Marriage. People suggest showing it to your partner, but I don't think this is helpful unless they're receptive to it (it sounds like your partner is not). It's more useful to crystallize your own thoughts and [a] understand the dynamic of high/low libido partners and [b] that if you're like most people here then sex is just a pathway to intimacy, and that it's actually intimacy that you miss.
  
• Write down what you want to say to your partner (not necessarily word-for-word, dot points will do).
  
• Channel George Orwell: speak simply, don't bring in unrelated topics
  
• Don't ascribe blame or she will become defensive and defensive people shut down. "I took you out for dinner and we had a good time and we didn't have sex" is blaming her. "I took you our for dinner because I've been trying to reconnect with you and I miss you" is you sharing a sense of loss with her.
  
• Talk about what you miss (sex, closeness, feeling connected)
  
• Summarise the Sex Starved Marriage: sex is ultimately under the control of the low libido partner. It's unreasonable for them to both demand sexual exclusivity and then deny access to any activity. It's like a chef telling his wife that she's not allowed to eat any food except that which he makes, but then never making food because he's tired and can't be bothered. It's simply not a sustainable situation.
  
• Ask her to spend 20 minutes just listening to you without interrupting while you read it.
  
• Don't give her any written notes; you don't want this to be a nitpicking exercise.
  
• Don't follow up the conversation immediately, you want her to just think about what you said.
  
  Did this solve the problem? No, but my wife now acknowledges now that there is a real issue and we're (half successfully) working on it.
  
  Finally, before someone else (Draconis?) gets in to say it:
  
  > I love my wife and when we go on dates we get along great
  
  Are you really so sure about that? Do you hold hands? Do you kiss? Is she affectionate? Do you both say "I love you" and mean it as opposed to saying it out of habit? If so, fantastic -- half your job is done.
  
  Sex is a relationship barometer: most of the people in here who say "they are perfect except for sex" (especially those in long term relationships) are in denial. Their relationship is in fact is quite dysfunctional but they haven't realised it yet. Read Gottman and ask whether your relationship is as good as you think it is.
  
  Wishing you success!

mil-spouse about to be on 7th underway in 3 years. Married going on 8 years.

A) You can't go back to "where you were", because you are both different people now. Does it really matter what happened in the past? The future is where you have control. That said you do have to evaluate the past so you can learn how best to avoid those situations

B) You have to lay out what you expect from the relationship, and own up to what you did wrong

C) You have to ask her what she wants / expects out of the relationship when you are gone. This may mean you get to wake up an hour earlier than usual so you can talk to her when you are already limited on your sleep. This may mean emailing more than you care to etc.

D) Both of you take that 5 love languages test (I think it's ridiculous but has merit). It opens the door to discussing what the other one needs/wants out of the relationship. I recommend the military version but it only comes in book form. Long distance book club can help you out as well. (Both get a copy and read it). I also strongly recommend both of you reading the book The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work These books can help you set up a framework for better communication long-term.

E) If opening up the communication doesn't work, then it may be time to contact www.militaryonesource.mil for some couples counseling. Ain't no shame, and don't let your unit give you shit. Working on your marriage will make you look better. Getting your shit together in this area can actually make your work life easier. Having a true partner at home who has your back can make deployment 12 billion times easier than either not or having to go through a divorce.

Hopefully she is open to some of this. Good luck either way. Fixing this takes maturity on both parties, so hopefully she is on board.

I sure do! This book is a great resource and goes into quite a bit of detail about attachment science and how it can affect adult relationships. If I recall correctly, it also includes self-assessments (I read it a few years ago).

On a related note, I wholeheartedly and emphatically cannot recommend this book enough to anyone who is, has been, or might one day like to be in a romantic relationship. John Gottman is a researcher at the University of Washington and basically the Einstein of relationship science. His algorithm can predict whether any given couple will divorce with something like 90% certainty. Don't let the title fool you -- this book dispenses extremely helpful advice for dealing with people in close interpersonal relationships regardless of whether you're married, dating, or just good friends.

Part of my divorce was what you describe - and my ex is not living "a happier" life.

I do understand your position, and you probably feel underappreciated or alone..... but you need to also try and give your husband the benefit of the doubt ($1000s in therapy and that was the best advice - it is simple and true). He too is working and exhausted, he too needs love and attention..... He too needs to escape (TV or other distractions).... And these times are difficult, children are difficult. You should ask yourself how he has changed, has his dream of an "authentic life" really disappeared? Probably not, he is just getting up and working to make sure the house is over your head and food on your plate. He probably has shifted his view of the world as well, kids will do that.... He probably wants to see your kids have the best outcome - and that might not be a tiny home, home schooled while driving around the world... He probably is trying to make sure there is stability in their life.

Have you gone on a date with him recently? Have you tried to talk with him and work on your physical relationship? Have you tried? Marriage is hard, and divorce will not make it easier and the courts will definitely reduce your "dreams of an authentic" life because they only care about consistency and predictable future for your children.

Another "$1000s advice from marriage therapy", you need to create positivity in your relationship. It does not happen naturally, it is work and it is intentional. Stop expecting from him and stepup to create a better relationship for you and him. A healthy relationship needs 4 out of 5 (generic #s) to be successful. If you have more negative, then you will have a unrealistic and unhealthy belief your husband is a "problem".

Marriage is tough, mainly because you are doing things out of love. Being a mother is tough, because you are constantly being selfless (and fatherhood is the same - he too is giving up on dreams and being selfless)....try reading 7 principals that make a marriage work (link below), it is a interactive marriage book for couples.... And you would be surprised at how not unique your marriage difficulties are, at how "textbook" your situation is.... A lot of people struggle with your exact issues and situation.... A lot of marriages end do to the transition from "ideal love" to "fuck: kids, work and family are taxing in life".

And... To counter your issues, ask yourself how "free" your life will be when you are single and working to stay a float. Having to do 100% of your life work and planning... Trust me, that dream of a unique life will be harder to accomplish. How unique will it be dating again, trust me it is not that cool and unique having 1 night stands and being disappointed over and over again.

Try and talk with your husband about your dreams and needs, and ask that he really listens to you.... And then you need to drink a dose of reality and be patient. Life will happen and give both of you time to reacclimate to life as parents.

But, honestly... if anything, try to work on your relationship... It is the easiest and most rewarding work you can do. There are great resources out there. If you choose therapy, be judgemental and picky because there are bad therapist out there. The tpey of therapy that I appreciated was EFT (Emotionally Focused Therapy). It is research based and focused on bad habits.

Here is a start:
The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert https://www.amazon.com/dp/0609805797/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_mAQuDbWNFBMXB

Take care, you can do this! Because, being loving and supportive parents and not divorced is a unique life... Try to change your perspective. (But don't run away from your dreams, just plan and live them out).

The thing about people who say that she shouldn't marry you because you're unequally yoked and all that kind of ignores that you've been in a relationship, a sexual relationship, for many years already. That's some kind of de facto status right there that they should be wary of breaking off. That forms some physical and spiritual bonds that people who aren't trained professionals shouldn't be messing with.

The "worship leader" sounds like a douche. People in a position to be giving spiritual advice and counseling should not be romantically involved or have hopes of becoming romantically involved with people they give such counsel to. If he's not qualified to be giving counsel, he should butt out because he's tampering with a longstanding relationship and reckoning with forces larger than he knows. It's terribly irresponsible of him.

As for marriage: marriage is a wonderful thing and I highly recommend it to everybody. It is also a great undertaking, the hardest thing you will ever do (until you have children), but you also have the strength to do it and I know you can. But the thing is, it requires a lot of humility, self-sacrifice, and maturity. It's not something to be entered into lightly, not the sort of thing you "just" do. I think you should strongly consider it. I have a book recommendation for you, it's a secular book, I think it will be helpful to you and your relationship even if you don't get married, and it will even be helpful in other types of relationships: The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman. http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797 It's cheap and very helpful. The principles in there also help with friendships, coworker relationships, whatever. But I think if you read it, it will not only be helpful for your relationship, but it will give you a small window of insight into the sort of everyday struggles of married life and give you some positive context for viewing marriage.

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with calmly saying "I feel X and the reason is because you did Y."

Flying off the handle or saying something accusatory like "You ALWAYS do Y and you know I don't like it" will get you nowhere.

A great book on relationships is John Gottman's The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work

(Don't be put off by the word "marriage." What he says applies to all relationships.)

Actually, Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus is surprisingly good too.

[Edit:typos]

It's the Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman. It's a really good read, I would recommend it.

If you've never had the connection you now want, but got married anyway, that was your initial mistake. But hindsight is 20/20 and I don't think it's necessarily an unsolvable problem, especially since he seems willing to work on it.

It takes a lot of effort to break out of 5 years of bad habits. But you can do it! I think you could do it without counseling, but if you hit a wall or either of you is feeling really unhappy, or communication is not improving, please go see a therapist or counselor since they can help a lot.

Be sure you're setting aside dedicated time to discuss and work on your relationship. The time and effort you both put in is an investment, and if you pull through it will pay off immeasurably. Then start by each taking the Love Languages test. Discuss your answers. Read The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman, someone who has studied relationships for years. That book includes a number of exercises to work through with your partner, and I think it would be an amazing help to you in connecting with your husband.

Another idea is that since you want to drastically step up your relationship with each other and break out of the disconnected rut you're in, think of other ways you can spice up, change, and improve your life. Consider rearranging your furniture. Taking a weekend trip to someplace new. Starting a new hobby together (maybe something like salsa dancing or ballroom dancing). Working out together. Taking a class to learn a new language or skill. Whatever sounds like fun! Connecting the relationship work you are doing to a shift in another area of your life (particularly one that is fun, novel, exciting) will help you feel like things are really changing and different, and will keep you invested in the relationship progress you're making. It's easier to connect when you are on the same team, doing things together and sharing the journey.

Lastly, you say he does "husband things" and you do "wife things". Consider mixing it up. If he's the one who brings you flowers on anniversaries, how about you bring him flowers for no reason whatsoever other than that you care about each other? If you usually eat lunch out during the workday, how about he wakes up early to pack you one? Look for ways you can break out of your current habits of showing affection, which aren't working, and look for new ways to make each other happy. The Love Languages test should offer some great insight into the best way for each of you to start.

Gottman is highly referenced within relationship counselling stuff, and focuses on principles of positive relations, with no gender roles or religion. I don't know anything about this particular book, or others, but could be worth a starting look.

http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797

specifically as it pertains to "stonewalling"

It's a whack title for a book, but top notch content. Written by the progenitor of evidence-based marriage counseling.

I'll take a controversial view: this has nothing to do with your children and everything to do with your marriage.


I think you should focus less on establishing ground rules for discipline for your future child, and focus more on communicating effectively with your husband and vice versa. To say you are not hearing each other is an understatement.

This may sound like schmoozey psycho babble, but heart sharing is a technique they use in family and couples therapy. The point is to focus on being heard, and tabling any resolution until mutual understanding is achieved.

You need to be heard: you're traumatized by physical violence in the home. Does your husband get this? If his response is along the lines of "yes, but..." anything following that "but" is him turning away from your heart. There is a reciprocal ask: you need to know that discipline matters to your husband: he envisions himself as an authority, and wants kids who are mindful and obedient.

If you guys ever get the chance to take the Gottman institute, it is worth the investment for your marriage (and consequently, your children who will grow up seeing a loving marriage). If not, the books are super helpful. One my wife and I read and love is: https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797.

I agree that therapy, both individual and couples, is WONDERFUL, and I think y'all should go for that if you have the time and money. When my husband and I were in school together and could take advantage of the "free" therapy, at one point we were both doing individual therapy AND couples therapy! :-P We can't afford to do that now (shitty insurance/not much income), but we do still work on ourselves and our relationship.

Four things that have helped me in my relationship with my husband, who's also an ACoN:

1. Know your sensitivities very well, and how it connects to your history with your family. Regarding knowing yourselves - in what particular ways did your parents injure you? Did you have similar roles in your families, or was one of you the GC and one of you the SG?
   
   
2. Communicate your sensitivities clearly (and in a calm moment) to one another. Not much learning can happen about one another when we're triggered, so if there's something important for my husband to know about me, I make sure to tell him after some calming-down time, and I ask him to do the same.
   
   
3. Something my therapist has encouraged me to do is explain the underlying feelings behind my actions (i.e. "I felt so sad because of X and that's why I said Y, I guess what I really needed in that moment was Z") - that has worked well in communicating effectively with my husband. Instead of attacking or defending, showing my vulnerability is A GOOD THING with my husband, which is the complete opposite of how to survive with N parents.
   
   
4. We've worked through reading a relationship book together. This one by Gottman is what we did, although we also wanted to read through Hold Me Tight, and perhaps we still will. It gives us a container for talking about these subjects, instead of relying on our arguments in the day-to-day.
   
   Hope that helps! Good for you guys for being self-aware and striving to work on your relationship.

>She doesn't understand why I would want to pay someone who doesn't know anything about us a lot of money to tell us what to do.

Because they're highly trained, have no agenda or overt bias. If you two were going to solve your issues on your own it would have happened by now.

The fact that she'd rather split up than seek outside help is pretty telling about her level of interest in making this work.

I've recommended this before, it's a pretty good book but won't be as helpful as a professional:

http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797

See a counselor yourself, it can't hurt, and it might lower your stress level and give you some insight into different things you can try to improve your side of things. A trial separation probably won't help, those only work if done for very specific reasons and with the help of a professional.

Whatever you do, please don't get married until you sort some things out.

Great book. [Here] (http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Doubt-Religious-Believers-Nonbelievers/dp/0814433723/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453163862&sr=8-1&keywords=in+faith+and+in+doubt) is the link. [This one] (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0609805797?keywords=making%20marriage%20work&qid=1453163805&ref_=sr_1_4&sr=8-4) was also helpful to me.

> We do keep score, that's a good way to put it.

Here's something interesting I learned in a marriage therapy class in grad school: marriage therapists used to suggest that partners in struggling marriages do nice things for each other in a "tit for tat" system. For example, they'd ask the couple to each do one nice thing for each other a day.

Research has shown that this is actually counterproductive. If a spouse is keeping track of how many nice things they've done and how many nice things the other person has done, they become less happy with the relationship. Inevitably, each partner can list more nice things they've done for the other person than they can nice things the other person has done for them. It makes them feel more resentful towards the other person, not less.

I know you've said you're a logical kind of guy and you like to be quantitative about things, but I think this is something you should think about: hard research shows that when you keep track of who owes who what, your relationship is likely to deteriorate.

By the way, the research we learned about in that class was mostly by the Gottman Institute, which is the leading organization in empirical research on predictors of marriage success. They write lots of books for lay people, which I'd highly recommend -- The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, for example.

This is not quick advise, but--

I found this book by John H. Gottman to be very helpful in sorting out my own marriage. (Divorced now.) The author provides tools to figure out if the relationship problems are solvable or perpetual, as well as providing sound advice on just how to get along...some of which seems obvious, but can be good to be reminded.

Personally, I opted for divorce only once it became clear to me that it was unlikely that my DH and I would not be truly happy being together in the long run. Too much compromise was required on both sides. I left because I love him and want us both to be able to find happiness. It was a heart-wrenching experience, but ultimately the right choice for us.

Divorce is painful, and so much messier (and more expensive) than any other breakup. Imo, it shouldn't be regarded as a first option, but sometimes it might be the right answer.

Best wishes!

Read this book and This book together

​

The fact that he is resisting giving her up and they are still sharing time with each other even though it is causing you pain is concerning. How would he feel if the situations were reversed? What would his reaction be? Does he share or is he willing to share every single communication between the two of them with you? Like your SO, I'm positive mine never ventured into a PA, but he was on his way to an EA. Yours is in EA territory, too. Mine offered to cut contact but that wasn't practical given our social circle. Instead, he shows me every text & tells me about every call from her. I haven't told him I verify it against our phone records. Yes, he could be using messaging apps & social media for the contact, no I don't snoop on his phone or computer, but I honestly don't think she is the type to knowingly sneak like that. The communication they used to have was on the upswing, and he deleted the texts before I asked to see them (which is why I believe it was an EA for him and not a friendship) & is now any texts are few and far between and calls are nearly non-existent. SO & I worked on our communication and time spent together and things have improved for us.

The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert

This is a well-organized general marriage book. The big, surprising idea for me was the proven ineffectiveness of marriage counseling. Also surprising and useful was a discussion of when communication does not help, and how to fight fairly and effectively.

I would read Sue Johnson's book first: https://www.amazon.com/Hold-Me-Tight-Conversations-Lifetime/dp/031611300X/ref=pd_cp_14_2/138-8589847-3436922?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=031611300X&pd_rd_r=2f4ed5bd-840c-4bbb-adc6-652388f56e6f&pd_rd_w=4HmQ0&pd_rd_wg=DQa4X&pf_rd_p=0e5324e1-c848-4872-bbd5-5be6baedf80e&pf_rd_r=VG2QRAS06FAFVBRR5Z3M&psc=1&refRID=VG2QRAS06FAFVBRR5Z3M

Then Gottman: https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797,

Then Gottman: https://www.amazon.com/What-Makes-Love-Last-Betrayal-ebook/dp/B0061Q640C.

​

There is a huge gap in Gottman's teaching about how to avoid flooding and to attune to your partner that Johnson covers in great depth. When I read Hold Me Tight a bunch of the stuff in the Gottman books clicked for me.

The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work was a great read. I didn't need all the "I can predict divorce with astounding accuracy!" claims - the book itself was great. It has really concrete examples of good and bad male/female behavior, how to recognize it, and now to break out of the cycle. It also very accurately discussed how there are just long term, unresolveable conflicts in any marriage. No two personalities will completely match, so you need to learn to treat the friction with respect and patience.

Another super interesting book about emotional intelligence is Emotional Intelligence: and Why it can Matter More than IQ. I read this and suddenly the whole "but I'm being logical and you're just being emotional" accusation really took on a new meaning for me. The "logical" person probably has a low emotional intelligence and is probably the person who actually doesn't understand what the fight is about. I really recommend you read this one too. It will help broaden anyone's understanding of what it means to be a high functioning human being.

John and Julie Gottman have written several books on the topic.
From The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work:

1. Enhance your love map
   
2. Nurture fondness and admiration
   
3. Turn toward each other
   
4. Let your partner influence you
   
5. Solve your solvable problems
   
6. Overcome gridlock
   
7. Create shared meaning
   
   On the other side of the coin, Gottman talks about The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse which he says are predictors for divorce:
   
   
8. Criticism
   
9. Defensiveness
   
10. Contempt
    
11. Stonewalling

The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman (aka the love doctor). We just booked our photographer for the engagement/wedding photos and they sent us this book as a gift! This book has some fun questionnaires to go through together as a couple.

FH and I (we've been together nearly 8 years now) had a relationship meltdown last year because of our 2-week overseas trip that led to short-term couples counseling. After 4 sessions, we figured out what went wrong (ie. different expectations and lack of communication... of course it was communication) and have a better understanding of each other. We're considering those sessions as our pre-marital counseling. :)

Remind myself:

• I've done my own bad/not-great things in relationship
  
• This won't matter in 6 months/6 years/etc
  
• My reaction won't change the outcome
  
• The energy I'm spending on trying to change the un-changeable outcome it energy I could spend on far more productive things.
  
  
  Lastly, for relationship, check out John Gottman's work on The Four Horseman, Repair Attempts, Soft Startup. It's good stuff for dealing with conflict peacefully in relationship. His book 7 Principles of Making Marriage work I found to be an invaluable resource for all relationships, including friendships, sibling, colleagues, and romantic relationships. Most of the principles (eg, repair attempts and soft startup) are universal. Here's a good summary

I agree with marriage counselling. I'd suggest an approach that lines up with John Gottman's work - read 7 Principles. For yourself I'd also recommend MMSL or the website, http://marriedmansexlife.com/ .

I've had my share of issues as well so I hope this stuff that I've found on my journey helps.

Here is a good book on relationship conflict


Summary here

I think you've gotten some good advice here. I just wanted to throw out two books that have been really helpful to my husband and I and are not touchy-feely, the-husband-is-always-wrong, maybe-you-need-the-jesus texts.

The Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work If you would like, I have an extra copy of this and could send it to you for free.

For Better: The Science of a Good Marriage

It sounds like you guys really don't know how to argue. There are appropriate ways to express how you're feeling, and the way you guys talk to each other isn't the most effective way to come to an amicable end.

There is a book called The Seven Principles for Making a Marriage Work that is excellent in teaching how to argue with your partner. If you are both willing to read it and try to follow the advise within, it would probably really help. If you can't come to a compromise at home, you would both probably really benefit from couples counseling.

The Marriage Builder by Larry Crabb
and though it's not specifically Christian, I like that this one is evidence-based: https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797

Highly suggest reading this book
We've been doing the exercises at night and it has lead to some really interesting conversation. It feels like a little marriage prep!

It's never too late. I'm rather of the opinion that it's far better to be alone than to be in a shitty relationship. My husband was the only guy I ever dated. Not because I dated the first man who came along, but because I refused to date anybody who showed signs of anger, short tempers, obsession, disregard for others, taking shit about exes, etc.

I was his friend for 3 years before deciding I liked him, and it was another 2 years before we started dating. If at any point he showed abusive tendencies (and it always starts more subtly than outright hitting), I would have left. And that still stands, even though we're married and I love him. I will not be abused, and I will not be trapped in a toxic marriage as my mother was.

And if I had never met him, I would not be married right now. Because to this day, I have never met another man who I would be comfortable sharing my life and my bed with. Every single other man I've been "interested" in ended up showing some incompatible characteristic.

Life is too short to spend with an abuser. Some people are capable of change, but it's hard and both parties need to really change themselves to turn an unhealthy relationship into a good one. The abuser has to recognize the need to change, and has to make a commitment to do it. The abused one has to set boundaries on how they will be treated, and needs to keep the abuser in check as they both work towards a better interaction.

I HIGHLY recommend reading John Gottman's Seven Principles for Making Marriages Work. He did studies on couples and how they argue, and is able to predict with high accuracy who will stay together in a happy relationship, and who will divorce. And more importantly, he points out which behaviors are toxic in a relationship, and how both parties can change them. He's a great author, and has amazing books on abuse (When Men Batter Women) and gentle childrearing (Raising an Emotionally intelligent Child).

Book recommendation. Side note: I'm big on researching most things before I purchase them.

I'm currently on page 37 and I've had my mind blown five times thus far.
Amazon link just for ease: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0609805797/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

Book title/author: The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert by John M. Gottman

(I'm sometimes too proactive for my own good.)

(And I hope things get better for both of you.)

> most people go into it when the marriage is already in such deep trouble that it's usually a lost cause at that point. What its REAL purpose is, is to improve your communication skills with each other, and should be done sooner than later.

A thousand times, THIS. I wish I had known this was the real purpose. I thought people only went to counseling if their relationship was "broken", and I didn't want to call ours broken.

> Truth be told we haven't gotten to that step. I'm all for it, but I don't think my husband sees the need (yet?) but the seed is planted in his mind, at least. In the meantime, though, we've been looking at Dr. John Gottman's books, they may help you, too.

Our therapist is trained in the Gottman method. We weren't super far down the rabbit hole, and 9 months of counseling has done a WORLD of good for us, especially our communication skills. (Which is funny because I used to think we were such good communicators already! Shows how much I knew!) But I also recommend the books if you aren't ready to go to counseling. The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work is a good one to start with.

In this case, you've improved physically, professionally, and have your life on lock down. Maybe it's time to look at some of those blue-pill relationship bonding books. You've got nothing to lose, because it's not like you can kill attraction when it's not there.

I like this one--

https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797

It's pretty good-- it can help you figure out some of the bad patterns you do that make your wife not emotionally connected to you

Medication definitely has a role to play. Having negative previous experiences in therapy is tough but a lot of it does come down to fit and really wanting to be there (as opposed to sent there by mom or some other well-intentioned person). I think you guys are definitely not on the same page when it comes to the role of dreams and part of it that is down to your personal histories, part of that is down to how dreams were approached in your families of origin and part of that is your history together. But people change over time and the conclusions both of you came to years ago may no longer be relevant. Even if he won't go to therapy, can I encourage you to pick up John Gottman's book. He talks in there about reconciling dreams and provides some examples and exercises that a couple could do.

The 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman. He's a very respected researcher on marriage and relationships.

I'll also recommend checking out this Intimate Relationships course from UCLA: http://www2.oid.ucla.edu/webcasts/courses/2012-2013/2013spring/psych137c-1. It was my favorite course during my time there and really changed my outlook on people.

Also this: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLexCQI5fHYIdeWyOSJBclmFL8i4bkBT4H.

I read 7 principles for making a marriage work and thought it made a lot of sense. The researcher actually studied a bunch of couples and then followed them long term to see what behaviors predicted breaking up. Some stuff was sort of surprising, like it's ok to have topics upon which you disagree for your whole married life, it's HOW you talk to each other that can make or break you. I.e. defusing a situation with humor is good, even if nothing was really resolved, showing contempt for your partner is bad.

clinical psychologist here. For couples, its hard to beat Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work.

Welcome! My cycles can vary by a few days every month, so I use ClearBlue Ovulation kits. It just helps take away some of the guess work.

And I completely relate with worrying about protecting my marriage! I think even just having that top of mind means we’ll be more vigilant in watching for warning signs. I just heard about this book but haven’t read it yet: The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work.

Best of luck!

> Tell her you sense the marriage are cruising sometimes and you want to work together to strengthen your marriage, whether that means time, talk, dates and long walks or even some time with a counselor.

This. The "sense the marriage is cruising" thing is exactly how to broach the topic.

I'd like to add some pointers to material you may find helpful before, during or after seeing a counselor.

Start with This American Life episode 261. The first section is a gentle introduction to the work of John Gottman, who's one of the first people to scientifically study what makes marriages succeed. It turns out that a lot of the conventional wisdom is flat out wrong, including a lot of the advice found in self-help books and promoted by therapists.

For example, you mention arguments. Well, it turns out they're not necessarily a bad thing. Even arguments with yelling and things being thrown can be good for a marriage. (That's one of the results I was surprised by.) Never arguing can be much more toxic to the relationship.

With the background of the radio show, you may then want to try Gottman's book The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. That'll give you a general framework for recovering the relationship.

Your main issue will then be recovering intimacy, because intimacy is what brings on the "in love" feeling. Again, going by the science, there's a bunch of simple stuff that can help; for example, just spending some time looking into each other's eyes before going to bed helps--it triggers a response that's hard-wired into us. The Gottman book covers a bunch of this, and there are other books that go into more detail.

Then if she has been seeing someone else (as others in the thread have helpfully suggested), you may need help dealing with your emotional response. I say "may", because hey, you might discover that you're polyamorous and it doesn't bother you. Just had to throw that possibility in there...

The trouble with self help books is that their methods are often untested and rely on anecdotal evidence.

One that bucks the trend and sounds like it is right up your street is The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work (You don't need to be married for it to be useful, applies to any relationship).

My personal anecdote is that it works very well.

The book will tell you what you need to do, but at the end of the day it will take both of you working with the issue to resolve it.

Edit to add: There is an excellent customer review on that page

There's a really good book out there for relationships, called The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. Even if you aren't married, it's basically relationships 101. For those of us raised in toxic families, we had no model for healthy relationships. I know I made some rotten mistakes over the years, because of it. But I found this book very helpful, and it's written in very approachable language. You can get right into immediately.

I agree with the other commenters about deal breakers.

I was reading a book by the really famous marriage researcher John Gottman (https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797) and his research shows that many long-married couples have about ten or so fundamental issues that they disagree about and what they do is instead of arguing about it all the time, they just find ways to live with them. They even joke about it.

When I argue with my SO, it really helps me to think about where he's coming from. Why does he feel and believe this? How does his past shape his beliefs?

I feel like the most important thing when you're discussing something serious and everybody's getting emotional is to keep the argument "clean". John Gottman talks about the "Four Horseman of the Apocalypse" for marriage which he says are: criticism, defensiveness, contempt, and stonewalling. It's much better to avoid these behaviors.

http://www.amazon.ca/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797
aaaand...
http://www.amazon.ca/Wired-Love-Understanding-Attachment-Relationship/dp/1608820580/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449455904&sr=1-1&keywords=wired+for+love

This book is really good, it has a lot of exercises and questionnaires to do together. They based the principles on years of scientific research into relationships.

You are not responsible for other people's feelings. That is the good news. The bad news is that you are responsible for your behavior, and withdrawing or giving people "the silent treatment" can be very hurtful. I don't think it qualifies as abuse, though. Abuse is a pattern of behavior that is intentionally and willfully hurtful. You are not trying to hurt other people...you are trying to protect yourself.
So, I'm assuming you are unmarried, but to understand your behavior and perhaps remedy it, I'd recommend that you familiarize yourself with a concept developed by a marriage counselor named John Gottman that he calls "Stonewalling." "Stonewalling" is, in essence, withdrawing from an argument by refusing to participate. It may seem like a cold, rational, and necessary thing to do...but the problem is that it conveys a lack of empathy, judgment of the other person, and, in extreme cases, contempt. Gottman lists stonewalling as one of the "four horsemen" that appear when a marriage is doomed. (Contempt, by the way, is another of the horsemen...and it's the most serious. When you hate the other person so much that you feel contempt, your marriage is pretty much over.) So the passage I sent you has some advice on how to avoid stonewalling, and I'd urge you to read his book on successful marriages because I think it might help you repair some damaged relationships and form better relationships in the future.
There are other things you can do. You can reach out to people you have hurt and ask for forgiveness. You can forgive yourself. You called yourself a "narcissist." That's pretty uncharitable, and it's also not true. Narcissists believe that everybody else has the problem. You believe that you have a problem. You see the hurt that you have caused, and you want to repair it. You also want a better life for the people you meet in the future. I believe you will get there.

I highly recommend this book. It talks a lot about disagreements and fights in relationships. Gottman is the best in his field and the science and advice is pretty solid.

By your description, that day has already arrived! See if you can bring him in. If you can't (or can't afford a separate counselor), the resources provided by the Gottman Institute are pretty good. They use an evidence based model for marriage issues. A good start is this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797

https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797/

Get two copies.

Couple therapy is expensive (but one of the best things you can give your couple when you find the same things are repeating and you can't get out of them), and you both have to be committed to the process. If that's an ongoing discussion, or one that you have yet to have, I suggest the following books for both of you to read in the interim. These are good reads written by researchers that know their stuff.

http://www.amazon.com/Hold-Me-Tight-Conversations-Lifetime-ebook/dp/B0011UGLQK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1412880408&sr=8-2&keywords=hold+me+tight

http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412880561&sr=8-1&keywords=gottman

I've been reading this book lately:

https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797

If you read it with an assertive, masculine frame you can weed out the blue pill nonsense. The guy actually did some scientific studies and can back up what he's saying.

I focuses on fixing the feelz of women. He basically admits feelz before reals. And it helps you not DEER

The best one by far, IMO, is The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, by John Gottman

You don't have to be married to get a lot out of this book (I'm not).

In the beginning of the book, the author discusses the "Four Horsemen." These are the 4 things he looks for, whose presence account for about 80% of his ability to determine whether or not a couple will last. They are: Criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling.

The 4 horsemen are just the beginning of the book though. The author goes into great detail. I HIGHLY recommend this book. I think every person, no matter how solid there relationships are, could learn something new from this book.

I didn't like the 5 languages book, but I would like to offer up some additional resources.

• The 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work, focuses on tangible steps that can help improve a marriage. The discussion on how to have a healthy fight really helped us the most.
  
  
• Gottsex is a newer tool they offer to work through issues related specifically to understanding each other's sexual needs.
  
  Good luck, there are plenty of resources out there!

Much of my knowledge about this is from reading good stuff on the subject. Relationship principles books and such. As I've done what I can to identify specific instances of each book's content in people I know, I've been able to build a better understanding of how people "tick."

Here are some examples of good ones, likely you've heard of one or two:

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034


http://www.amazon.com/The-Laws-Power-Robert-Greene/dp/0140280197/

http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797

http://www.amazon.com/The-Habits-Highly-Effective-People/dp/1451639619/

I've also read a whole bunch of Christian-authored material on the subject (both high and low quality) but I think some of the language/theological content gets in the way if it doesn't match a person's life-philosophy going into the book. I can share those if you're interested though. =)

John Gottman is pretty much the leader in the field. He has done decades of interesting research.

The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert https://www.amazon.com/dp/0609805797/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_o6flDb22B83PG

As I told her to read, so should you:

http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346249546&sr=8-1&keywords=seven+principles+for+making+marriage+work

It sounds to me like there is much more going on than just her wanting to fool around. It sounds like she is afraid of hurting you, afraid of what it says about her to cheat, so she needs permission. She is probably using you.

I know from experience how self-centered one can be when they get the idea that polyamory is what one wants, so I can't say I'm surprised by what she's done, but it's not fair, it's not right, and I don't wish this on anyone.

I think the biggest question to ask is: Are you guys friends more than anything else? That might be where you end up. That's where you should end up (if you are friends in the first place), regardless of whether or not you stay married.

Take some time, do some laundry (if it keeps helping you digest the crazy shit you've been through) and take action. Everything is in motion and will keep developing and changing with time, so you might as well exert some influence on how it all plays out.

Maybe the Red Pill isn't for you. I don't think you will be able to out-alpha the alphas she's surrounded with every day. That ship has sailed. If you get more confrontational and emotionally distant she will surely seek a divorce.

Why did she marry you? What are her dreams in life? Can you even answer that? You can make your marriage a project to work towards both of your dreams.

For a different (non Red Pill) perspective read this:
http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797

Actually, it does those as well:

The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work

Passionate Marriage

The Selfish Gene

Science can put ethics to the test, just like any other activity.