Reddit mentions of Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion

Yea. I'm not gonna get into a debate about it though lol.


>I've been wanting to believe in God for a while and I know the hope (or false hope?) gets my religious friends through med school much easier if you actually believe you are meant to do this or that God's plan for you is to be a doctor.

You might be interested in this book then. I've never read it but I know people who are agnositic who have and recommend it

That video comes from a thought experiment credited to Derek Parfit, but summarized well by Sam Harris in Waking Up:

>[I]magine a teleportation device that can beam a person from Earth to Mars. Rather than travel for many months on a spaceship, you need only enter a small chamber close to home and push a green button, and all the information in your brain and body will be sent to a similar station on Mars, where you will be reassembled down to the last atom.

>Image that several of your friends have already traveled to Mars this way and seem none the worse for it. They describe the experience as being one of instantaneous relocation. You push the green button and find yourself standing on Mars — where your most recent memory is of pushing the green button on Earth and wondering if anything would happen.

>So you decide to travel to Mars yourself. However, in the process of arranging your trip, you learn a troubling fact about the mechanics of teleportation: it turns out that the technicians wait for a person’s replica to be built on Mars before obliterating his original body on Earth. This has the benefit of leaving nothing to chance; if something goes wrong in the replication process, no harm has been done. However, it raises the following concern: while your double is beginning his day on Mars with all your memories, goals, and prejudices intact, you will be standing in the teleportation chamber on Earth, just staring at the green button. Imagine a voice coming over the intercom to congratulate you for arriving safely at your destination; in a few moments, you are told, your Earth body will be smashed to atoms. How would this be any different from simply being killed?

Anyone interested in all this should check out the book. Harris has a chapter on the split brain experiments as well. Pretty sure he does a podcast with the same title too, but I've never listened.

I am a weak atheist / strong agnostic / materialist / scientific skeptic, so I hear what you're saying.

You may not like my advice on this, but here it goes: Listen to http://pornfreeradio.com/ , and just hold your nose when Matt uses religious language occasionally. He is not disrespectful or dismissive to the non-religious members of his audience, he does not claim that a god-based approach to recovery is the way forward for everybody, and in fact he bends over backwards to not alienate his irreligious audience members.

In my opinion, he does it right - he does not deny his Christian perspective, but he does not push it. And his podcast is very, very good.

Lots could be said about 12-step programs and atheism. I've said some of it in comments on this subreddit. Maybe I'll say more in a top-level post one day. The TL;DR is that addiction and addiction recovery really is a spiritual thing, in the Sam Harris sense of the word.

My impression of enlightenment based on reading Waking Up by Sam Harris (highly recommended) and Jeffery Martin's PNSE studies is that it doesn't necessarily change your personality much and it does not really have much to do with moral behavior one way or the other. Gupta would likely behave in a similar way whether or not he was enlightened.

Sam Harris talks about a similar experiment in his book "Waking Up" (great read, btw).

His experiment is based on Douglas Harding's teachings and writings, and is meant to help you see through the illusory self (there is no separate self that experiences experience...just experience happening).

A quick Google search turned up this article on it, and it seemed a good/accurate recap. But, I highly recommend reading "Waking Up" - it's one of the best resources I've encountered (over 20 years of studying/reading) on meditation, your compulsive mind, and related topics.

I was in the same boat as you when I got started and I found that using a good guided meditation app provided a solid starting foundation.

I have personal experience with Ten Percent Happier and Waking Up. Both are fantastic but should not be relied on for too long; it should only take a few months to form your own practice based on the techniques you’ll learn.

I’m at the point where I’m getting comfortable with my own daily practice after using each of those apps for a few months. One widely recommended book which I might look at soon is The Mind Illuminated. Another book I discovered recently, Mindfulness: A Practical Guide to Awakening, is written by respected meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein, who also narrates the intro guided meditations for Ten Percent Happier.

Edit: Waking up has a companion book that discusses what consciousness is and how to avoid the faith-based dogma that is often associated with meditation.

I would read his book Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion, it's fantastic, especially as a follow up to 10% Happier. Also check out his meditation app, Waking Up. It's really good. Sam has years of experience meditating in the east, so his app tends to be more focused on an in-depth approach to meditation and mindfulness.

This is a fair question. A condition to practicing toward awakening is a desire to awaken, which comes from good teachings. For pragmatic dharma resources, I recommend you check out the sidebar links, particularly Daniel Ingram's MCTB and Ron Crouch's website (and, specifically, his post "Why Meditate?". Those inspired me to practice.

There are lots of other interesting books on the subject too, including Shinzen Young's recent book The Science of Enlightenment, Sam Harris's Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion, and Adyashanti's The End of Your World: Uncensored Straight Talk on the Nature of Enlightenment. Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now also is quite popular.

And, really, depending on your bent, you can't get any better than the original Buddhist teachings. On the subjects of Enlightenment, the Diamond Sutra and the Heart Sutra are two of my personal favorites. (These are as translated by Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh.)

So, I'd recommend reading and seeing if you feel inspired by the teachings. For me, there was something about the very idea of "Enlightenment" that stirred a desire deep within my heart. It was palpable, and it started at an early age, sometime in middle school or high school when I had to do a project on religions and happened to be assigned Buddhism. Encyclopedia-like resources don't necessarily point you in the direction of Enlightenment, but the explanation of "Nirvana" had some sort of primal appeal to me.

Once pragmatic dharma teachers like Daniel Ingram and Ron Crouch started claiming that some form of "awakening" was actually possible for Average Joe Layperson (like me), I was intrigued, and I decided to give the experiment a shot. Of course I did.

What changes? It depends on how you define "stream entry" and who you ask. There are lots of different models for Enlightenment (as discussed in Daniel's MCTB). Using the pragmatic dharma definition, stream entry is defined as the first time a practitioner completes a fully cycle of insight (typically measured against the Progress of Insight maps) and experiences a "cessation" event. What changes varies from practitioner to practitioner, but on the Fetters Model, which I think is as good as any, three important "fetters" are dropped: (a) belief in self, (b) doubt about the Path, and (c) attachment to rites and rituals.

Concretely, based on my experience, the fetters model (filtered, of course, through my still sometimes cloudy conceptual lens) made a lot of sense. Regarding "self view," the "cessation" experience has a way of kicking you out of the linear way of looking at your life, as an existent self living chronologically in time. While often this insight fades for a while, it is pretty clear at the point of initial awakening, and I speculate that a part of your mind never forgets that. This insight deepens with further practice. Your perspective on your experience shifts from being caught typically in the horizontal dimension of time to instead tuning into the vertical dimension of "just this," in which time, like all things, including the self, is seen as just a concept, a particular way of looking at this immediate, obvious, and manifest reality. Seeing "just this," and recognizing that there is no permanent self that is just this or that provides tremendous relief. Most of our lives are spent trying to protect the self, improve it, make it happy. Seeing through this delusion, even for a moment, has a way of radically transforming one's perspective on experience.

Second, after you complete a cycle of insight, you don't really doubt "just this." There's a lot of work necessary to integrate and deepen that insight. But it feels like you have directly touched reality, the Tao, Nirvana, God, or whatever. Interestingly, in my experience, that which seems to remains when all else fades is all that you ever wanted to begin with. So, the value of this Path becomes obvious. Faith is no longer necessary. A deep part of your mind understands that "this is it."

Finally, the attachment to rites and rituals goes away because you realize that it's "just this." You might have done a lot of work to realize that, but once you do, it's all pretty simple. That realization can't be taken away from you. It's done. It's always available. As a practical matter, that realization tends to fade, come and go, which teaches us an interesting thing about "awakening experiences," a lesson we will have to learn well as we continue to deepen our practice. But generally speaking, after "stream entry," one realizes that awakening is not somehow external to one's present situation, indeed the very idea of internal and external is just another concept which has no concrete, permanent status (is ultimately empty). Thus, the need for rites and rituals is seen through.

All that said, these realizations may not be perfectly obvious at the conceptual level after stream entry. As a practical matter, people generally feel lighter, relieved, happier, at least for a time. But those states are just states, which are not permanent. Enlightenment, Awakening, Liberation, Nirvana, or whatever you want to call it is something that goes beyond particular states or this or that. Once you begin to open up to that dimension of being, you experience a much more profound and lasting sense of peace with just this existence, as it is. It's a nice spot to be in. :)

Hope that helps.

Waking Up by Sam Harris might be up your alley. I haven't read it, but you might find it useful. A lot of people shy away from him because he's an outspoken atheist.

I haven't read any of his stuff yet, but from what it sounds like, Sam Harris has a good pragmatic and evidence based approaches to mediation. I think Waking Up is the book people recommend the most from him.

It's on my list of books to read, eventually I'll get to it.

I've said it before, everyone needs to pick up this book. Sam Harris has an extremely rational approach to meditation and makes scientific arguments in favor of it. Meditation has helped me cope with anxiety attacks and feelings of worthlessness.

One thing that many people that leave organized religion may not realize is that spiritual experiences and those feeling of connectedness to something greater then yourself can be had without any organized religion. I just finished reading this book Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion it covers some areas of mediation and mindfulness that are not common among Mormons or Christians. He shares how an agnostic or atheist can find spirituality without organized religion.

https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

From a practical standpoint, The Mind Illuminated is my personal favorite. Some of it will be difficult to interpret as a newer meditator, but it is an excellent and comprehensive guide to starting a practice and overcoming the many obstacles you'll encounter. If you get this one, go with paperback and not the E Book.

Other favorites are 10 Percent Happier and Waking Up. I have read both of these multiple times and they do a great job of inspiring curiosity about the mind and the value of meditation for skeptical people.

> how do you feel about the pragmatic use of gods as if they existed for psychological benefits?

Meditation has known benefits. Sitting quietly, focusing, turning inward, is often going to help with stress, distraction, etc. Ritualistic or repetitive things like mandalas, prayer wheels, prayer beads, chants, etc can also help clear the mind. The benefits can be separated from any supernatural framework. Many atheists meditate, and Sam Harris even wrote a book on secular "spirituality," targeted at non-believers. I attended a 10-day Vipassana course in 2013, in India.

I don't see the benefit to belief in the supernatural. Though I suppose it may make someone happy to contemplate God smiting his "enemies." I think it was Tertullian who said that being able to witness the torments of the damned would be part of the reward of the saved. That's just not very flattering to believers. But believing that God will take care of your problems might make you feel better. Placebos can actually help with pain, though we consider it unethical when doctors use them instead of (chemically) real medication.

We should note too that belief in magic can be comforting. Children often feel disappointed when they find out Santa isn't real. At age 10 or so my son told me he missed believing in magic, Santa, and all the rest. Some of the magic had gone out of the world. When Dorothy pulled back the curtain and realized the Wizard was a fake, she was disappointed, not invigorated. She realized there was no magic super-being to fix her problems for her. She would have to do it herself, as best she could, and she might well fail. That's scary. Would she have been better off believing?

Waking Up by Sam Harris is what piqued my interest in Buddhism. He doesn't himself identify as a Buddhist, but it's definitely a new, modern, and different take on Buddhism.

Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion by Sam Harris. He's a outspoken atheist and neuroscientist, so he discusses it in a very scientific context.

10% Happier by Dan Harris (no relation). He is a news anchor and war corresponded who discuss a more personal view of meditation.

Both are great.

I'm currently walking along this path and can recommend these books -

​

John Yates - The Mind Illuminated

Sam Harris - Waking Up

Owen Flanagan - The Bodhisattva's Brain: Buddhism Naturalized

Ok - given you're an atheist, I suggest you to read Waking Up by Sam Harris

I think given who Sam Harris is, his background and the style of his writing - I reckon you'll feel most comfortable reading his book.

As we get older, we have more life experience. More life experience means we understand the laws that govern this life. One law is that we all pass.

"Everything comes to pass. Nothing comes to stay." ~Matthew Flickstein

There are no guarantees in life. Except one.

Act with integrity and no one can take it from you.

I've recently gone through a tumultuous time. I am the point person for my 82 year old mom and disabled sister - they don't need my direct care, but they don't drive, and need help with dr. appts, budget, etc.

As difficult as it can be, and it will go on for years to come, I have my integrity. My actions and speech are true, kind and good to the best of my ability.

We choose how to view life. We can choose to be the cello player in the midst of the rubble. Or, we can join the masses of "no one can help me, and I can't help myself."

We are responsible for our own minds. We have to care for them like we do the body. Right diet and exercise help the body function right, and right input into the mind as well as right mental activity are our responsibility as well.

We don't deny our negativity. We accept it, "Yes, this too." And, we choose where we dwell in our minds.

Tara Brach has a book, Radical Acceptance, that might help.

Atul Gawande's Being Mortal might help.

Sam Harris Waking Up: Spirituality without Religion is good.

You can change. There is no such thing as a normal young adult. It could be you are comparing to what advertising portrays as "normal." Be careful of comparing to what the advertising man tells us is normal. Visit a third world country and look at people your age and add that to the mix of "normal."

You can change.

I find the generation over 65 to be a bit ignorant in general. Also, as people age their minds become less flexible. You were seeing people, your grandparents perhaps, who were in cognitive decline and not able to change nor wanted to change anymore.

Just as you are different now than you were 4 years ago, you will be that much different in 4 years.

More power to you.

https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

>Do you think I should go?

No.

Sometimes "diving in the deep end" is just a great way to add drowning as a fresh trauma (and have it ruin swimming for you as well).

I would, however, definitely recommend developing a serious mindfulness meditation practice. Protip: It doesn't have to be grueling, or even uncomfortable. Not in the least.

There is no "quick fix" available with meditation. Think of it as deciding to start doing what it takes to get a ripped bod... Work out regularly and the benefits will absolutely appear, but the last thing you want to do is just go from an office job to doing a dozen back-to-back triathlons. Slow and steady is the only thing that will "win" this particular race for you.

Sam Harris's Waking Up app/course is a fantastic way for anyone to ramp up and organically work your way into a deep and rewarding meditation practice. It's simple and it's very smart. The book by the same name is actually what drew me initially to Vipassana, and ultimately a 10-day intensive.

Honestly, it's really not a "retreat" at all — much more of an intense workshop. At some point, it will make perfect sense for you to do a 10-day, and you will know it. Take your time and do the work.

>Mother Teresa

I understand she increased the unnecessary suffering of others and did not use the money she was given for good, then she also had connections to other bad people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa

Do you care if your beliefs are based in reality?

Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion: Sam Harris: 9781451636024: Amazon.com: Books: https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

Here's a good source for being spiritual too!

>to each his own.

https://www.reddit.com/r/meditationpapers/

Rhythm of breathing affects memory and fear (part of mindful meditation is focusing on breathing).

Improving Military Resilience through Mindfulness Training.

In case you're interested further, there's a neuroscientist who wrote a book about his findings.

It sounds like this would be a great book for your situation:

Waking Up

Buddhism seems to have a lot to say on consciousness and experience.

Sam Harris wrote a book you might enjoy, I'll link you to it. I really enjoyed it a lot. And he includes a lot of information on meditation I thought was interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1451636024/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1465048724&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=sam+harris+waking+up&dpPl=1&dpID=51o78eeqqYL&ref=plSrch

I recommend these

https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1503346582&sr=8-1&keywords=waking+up

and

https://www.amazon.com/Daily-Stoic-Meditations-Wisdom-Perseverance-ebook/dp/B01HNJIJB2/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1503346600&sr=1-1&keywords=daily+stoic

I'm afraid a book isn't going to nudge him at all, especially if he's averse to religion. In fact it may just end up in his trash or worse, straight up insult him. Fifty years is a long time to develop powerful habitual behaviors.

If he has bipolar depression, that is a biological disease. No book in the world will touch it. Is he on medication for it? It may be that his dosages need adjusting.

If he's intelligent and scientifically inclined I would recommend offering him a gift membership to a secular mindfulness school in your community. But I wouldn't just spring it on him. I'd explain to him the scientifically proven benefits of secular mindfulness training and ask him if he'd be interested.

If you are still set on a book, Thich Nhat Hahn's books are fluffy. A scientifically inclined, non-spiritual individual isn't going to like them much. I would recommend something like Waking Up: Spirituality without religion by Sam Harris.

This is fairly cliche - but have you tried meditation? I think it's helped me.

Sam Harris has a decent guided meditation on YouTube.

If you haven't already, you might read, and enjoy, Sam Harris' book: Waking Up.

EDIT: Markdown shenanigans

https://www.amazon.com.br/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024?__mk_pt_BR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=waking+up&qid=1524019106&sr=8-1&ref=sr_1_1
>That principle is the subject of this book: The feeling that we call “I” is an illusion. There is no discrete self or ego living like a Minotaur in the labyrinth of the brain. And the feeling that there is—the sense of being perched somewhere behind your eyes, looking out at a world that is separate from yourself—can be altered or entirely extinguished. Although such experiences of “self-transcendence” are generally thought about in religious terms, there is nothing, in principle, irrational about them. From both a scientific and a philosophical point of view, they represent a clearer understanding of the way things are. Deepening that understanding, and repeatedly cutting through the illusion of the self, is what is meant by “spirituality” in the context of this book.

From my anedoctal experience, he means something like this. I haven't read the book, so I can't be sure.

Maybe look into some kind of relaxation or meditation techniques. Read up on mindfulness and secular spiritualism. There are techniques you can work on to reach that tranquil mental state if you put in the practice, there are proven psychological benefits, and you don't need to believe in anything crazy to do it. You mostly just have to focus on your breathing.

Both of these books can be considered self development AND philosophy:

https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808

Check out Sam Harris' book Waking Up

Not sure about the original source, but the image is also for the cover of his book which shares the name of the podcast, Waking up.
https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

The funny thing is, it makes perfect sense there. But its a strange choice to include the picture and that epic music with the podcast. Its easy to make fun of the pomposity if you don't like Sam.

It seems you have much to learn about spirituality. But don't take my word for it. Others have written a lot of good things on this topic. No soul or anything that survives death is necessary.

Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion by Sam Harris.

The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment by Eckhart Tolle.

But even if we could agree on something called a soul, why would a drug that affects the brain have anything to do with it? Or do you mean that your brain is your soul?

Check out this book by Sam Harris.

Edit

Here's the audiobook

https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

I recommend reading Sam Harris' book "Waking Up" - the entire book is about this subject, and it's an excellent resource.

Sam wrote an entire book about this.

​

https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

In case you haven't read it, I really enjoyed Waking Up.

> First I don't agree that the sense of self is a feeling. I'd rather use "phenomenon of the mind" o maybe "construct" for lack of a better expression.

This is really just semantics, no? We can definitely supplant the word 'feeling' with words such as phenomenon, construct, sense, belief etc. I would argue that mind is a lot more encompassing than self, and it would be fallacious to conflate the two. The mind clearly exists, thoughts clearly exist.

The sense of self is encompassed in the mind, but the mind encompasses mental phenomena which we don't usually associate with the volitional self/ego, like dreams (funnily, though, the sense of self still exists in dreams). Thoughts are like dreams. Pay close attention, and they come in and out of consciousness without our volition. But the sense that there is some "controller" of these thoughts is illusory -- and we can see this if we meditate effectively, or take psychedelics. Indeed, since you seem to be a materialist, it would follow for you then that thoughts are a manifestation of the brain itself -- and we do not choose the construct of our brain, or how our innumerate amount of neurons inter correlate.

Indeed, the paradox that we think our thoughts becomes apparent in any beginners meditation practice. Beginners invariably complain that they can't meditate since they can't stop thinking (which is actually great they can observe this!). But, the phenomenon of the self (to use one of your words) is defined as being the controller of thoughts. If we were this controller of thoughts, wouldn't we just decide to stop thinking without any difficulty whatsoever?


> Second, because you can "turn it off" or detach yourself from it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

One facet of this illusory sense of self is the belief that it is always there and stable. The fact that there are significant moments in one's consciousness where it doesn't exist at all completely counteracts our conceptual understanding of the ego/self.

> Third, and this is a very complicated matter, what does it mean "to exist"? Would you say that a cultural value does not exist? That a convention does not exist?

To exist means to be real. Cultural values and conventions surely have conceptual truth, but they don't exist in objective reality. Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris had a really interesting podcast where they debated truth for over two hours. Maybe check out Buddhist ideas on relative truth and ultimate truth as well?


> Would you say that a magic trick is not real or does not exist just because it's not what it appears to be?
>
> The magic trick is indeed real, even if your perception makes you see beyond the actions of the magician.

Hmmm. No. The illusion of magic can appear real, but that doesn't mean the magic is real. I feel this analogy, if anything, just substantiates my point.

I cannot stress enough I am not making these claims based on religious dogma or pseudo science, but on scientific inquiry and experiential observation. They are increasingly investigated in scientific realms.

You seem like an intelligent and thoughtful individual, and I'm not explaining these points as clearly as I can (I'm very sleep deprived) or, indeed, as others do far better. Do check out Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality without Religion by prominent nueroscientist Sam Harris and/or Why Buddhism is True: The Science and Philosophy of Meditation and Enlightenment by evolutionary psychologist Robert Wright.

If you ever end up doing so, I'd be really curious in your reflections -- especially if you still disagree that the self is an illusion. :)

If meditation grabs you, Sam Harris is your guru. Read Waking Up. Sam has been interested in meditation for decades, and has traveled the world in search of "experiences". He's a bit of an expert on the topic. It's his alter-ago.

Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion - Sam Harris

https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

Also excellent.

Look up Sam Harris. He's a, if you could call it, a devout atheist. Yet is incredibly involved with the experience of spirituality. He's devoted a lot of time to meditation and mindfulness.

​

He literally wrote a book on mindfulness but how you can practice it in a secular sense. It's really good, if you don't want to buy the book and read it, he has plenty of clips on youtube where he talks about it.

https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

Read this book by Sam Harris:

https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

You might be able to get it at your local library.

Exactly. I am an atheist, but there is no doubt to me that prayer can be beneficial to the person who is doing the praying (not if you are praying for another person). It is really just another form of self reflection and meditation, which have shown to be highly beneficial.

For those non-believers out there I always recommend Waking Up: A guide to Spirituality without Religion by Sam Harris.

Try Why Buddhism is True by Robert Wright

The author covers evolutionary psychology which stands in opposition to the idea of free will.

You may also find Waking Up by Sam Harris useful.

Both of these books draw on neuroscience as well as philosophy and touch on the free will "problem".

I think porn and masturbation are just one facet of the monster of instant gratification people are consumed by. If the beginning sounded good to you, maybe there's something to it then. Don't dismiss it out of hand-- you would only be doing yourself a disservice.

Some books that may be interesting to you:

Waking Up by Sam Harris (especially if you are more of a skeptic)

The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle

Mindfulness in Plain English

Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill