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Specs: 6'4"ish, 180-190lbs. I've been shooting for 100g of protein, 550-600g carbs, idk about calories.

Breakfast: I try and bake a loaf of sourdough bread once or twice a week, so usually toast of some kind, I try all sorts of stuff so it might be a straight white or raisin or 100% whole wheat. Lately I've been eating a lot of steel cut oats with raisins and dates, I usually make some rice milk (just toasted brown rice and water) first then make a big batch of oatmeal for a few days of breakfast. Pour over coffee in the morning too, I feel like my system is so dialed in to that exact amount of caffeine from one pour over that it's hard to switch up to something else.

Lunch: Usually some kind of leftovers transposed into something a little different, nothing specific. I'd like to try and start consistently making a big salad with brown rice and nuts, ect. instead of what I usually have been eating.

Dinner: Lots of pasta, I like to make it from scratch (eggs, flour, salt). I'll make a fairly big batch when I do, keeping some rolled out in big sheets to make lasagna and some cut into linguine or thinner, which i can freeze and portion out as needed. It takes a bit of time but the process is really relaxing and god damn if fresh pasta doesn't kick the shit out of the box stuff every time.

Snacks: Lots of bananas and whatever fresh citrus I can get my hands on, I try and cut out refined sugar while training and definitely crave something sweet every day as a result. I scored a bunch of fresh dates for cheap which is awesome cuz they are stacked with carbs. When ProBar Meal bars are on sale I snatch a bunch of them, if you haven't had em they're hands down the best granola bar type thing I've tried. Lots of beer :)

My general thoughts on nutrition are the typical things you hear, try and eat local fruit and vegetables that are in season and find a good sustainable place to get your meat from if you eat it. I really enjoyed reading this book which gives a kind of hard science breakdown to which vegetables and fruits are the most nutrient dense as well as an historic context as to how they became cultivated in their current form. There are some really interesting tidbits in there about how to best store and prepare your food to maximize the nutrients in them.

I do the weights at the gym one day/week but most of my strength and core training is bodyweight because BALANCE is where the strength comes from (see LeBron article below). One leg bridges, straight leg deadlifts, etc are a couple of the exercises runners should be doing to strengthen their drive.

You can find most of these exercises in https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Runners-Unlocking-Potential-Prevention/dp/1620871599. It helps to get some bands and maybe an exercise ball. If you can get a couple of dumbells that helps too.

Heres's some other great bodyweight exercises for runners, specifically for strengthening glutes: https://www.popsugar.com.au/fitness/Workout-Sleeping-Butt-Syndrome-44485654

And this one is interesting. LeBron James is one of the strongest, fittest guys in the game but he had some injuries and performance issues to fix. This video shows some of the body weight training he trainer put him on using bands and exercise balls. And he says this is what turned everything around for him. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22778062/how-lebron-james-fixed-back-track-play-all-82-games-nba

.. and he paid the former Navy Seal $1 million US for this training! That says a lot about the value of bodyweight training. :)

I definitely think you can get it or come pretty close. You clearly have some solid natural talent and those lifetime miles always help, even if its been a while. Plus the fact that you haven't put on weight helps too.

I think it depends on what type of training you respond to best, but from reading Daniels and Pfitz books recently, there are sort of the 4 types of training that are important for the 5K. Easy aerobic runs/long runs, tempo(about what you could run for an hour or so), interval/V02 max(3k-5k pace) and repetition/speed(about mile pace or so). I think tempo and V02 are more important than the speed in the 5k so those should be the focus.

For a 5k time of 17:00 you want to be hitting tempo workouts around 5:54. Things like 4-6x1 mile with 1 min rest, 2-3x2 mile with 2 min rest, or a 4 mile tempo run. For the V02 stuff you want to be at around 5:25 mile pace or 2:42 800 pace. Workouts like 8x800 with 2 minutes jog. 6x1000 with 2-3 min jog. 5x1200 with 3 min jog. The shorter faster stuff is around mile pace. so 75 and under for 400 or 37 and under for 200. Workouts like 200 repeats with 200 jog or 400 repeats with 400 jog.

Maybe try to do any two of those workouts each week and a long run and you can get there I think. One week do a tempo workout and speed. Then the next week V02 and tempo. The week after V02 and speed. Try to get all those systems working. I would say try to make sure you can get your long run up to 10-13 miles or so.

These are what you should be running for a 17 min 5K, so its fine that you work into it. If it means slower pace or less reps, cool. These are just some benchmarks that to shoot for as you get closer to the race. Obviously if you can't handle the 2 quality sessions and a long run right now, back off a little and stick to the tempo and V02 stuff once a week and alternate them maybe. You can always do strides after runs or 200s after tempo workouts to keep some turnover going.

Do yourself a favor and pick up a book if you are serious about it so you can understand why you are doing these workouts instead of listening to me on the internet haha.

http://www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Formula-3rd-Edition-Jack/dp/1450431836

http://www.amazon.com/Faster-Road-Racing-Half-Marathon/dp/1450470459/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456842179&sr=1-1&keywords=pete+pfitzinger

Good luck. Keep us posted.

I think you implicitly equating pace times with worthwhile knowledge is a bit superficial (which perhaps is why some feathers got ruffled), but as you encountered in your previous thread, people telling you simply to focus on training/fitness and forget about stride length are simply incorrect. Yes, stride length, just like cadence, may be misleading or even unhelpful taken in isolation, but as part of a holistic program (as one can infer you're working on), these can offer meaningful gains.

I've read about 500 pp. recently from two expert-level books, Jay Dicharry's Anatomy for Runners and Running Rewired. My wife first heard him at a USATF Level III distance running clinic, then we went to his lab in OR. He works with Olympians, Ironman champs, etc. etc. Anyway, he says stride length boils down to two things:
* Increased muscle fiber recruitment. IIRC, this comes from plyos.
* Increased muscle size and strength. (From weight training.)

He makes the point (and I think this is really what you're getting at) that most runners will get more gains from doing strength workouts dedicated to helping the above, rather than just doing another run. All that to say, I'd highly commend both of those books to you (as you are clearly serious enough to have the appetite to wade through; AFR especially is not beach reading), but Running Rewired has more targeted workouts per your question. Cheers!

>Do you think my initial goal (3:10) was unrealistic based on my mileage in training?

This question is based on the individual, however increasing your weekly mileage safely will not hinder your performance. There are plenty of people who run much faster on less mileage, but this does not mean that you can.

>Did I simply go out a bit too eager and pay the price?

The marathon is hard. Each race day is different, and with longer distances small things like a few degrees temperature difference take a toll later in the race. General consensus is that if you're running the second half slower than the first you went out too fast.

>If training could have yielded better results, would you put performance drop down to slight illness?

I'm sure getting sick didn't help, but knowing how much it may have slowed you is impossible to know.

>For next marathon, what would you recommend I do differently? I suppose more smart mileage.

Your previous PR times seems to scale pretty well, so I don't know what specifically you should do differently outside of the normal advice that more miles won't hurt.

The Higdon plans are pretty good and I've used them myself in the past. You'll find that many runners here in /r/AdvancedRunning "move up" to the plans in Advanced Marathoning , and Daniel's Running Formula. Advanced Running focuses more specifically on marathons, while the Daniel's book pretty deep into explaining the science being training.


Edit: spelling

Sure! I just picked up this book: https://www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Formula-3rd-Jack/dp/1450431836/

I read through most of it (there is a ton of information in the book), but the 40 mile 2Q marathon plan was the one I ended up choosing. It seemed to fit best with my current commitments and was also challenging for me without being too intimidating.

This also seemed like a good comparison between marathon plans: http://fellrnr.com/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Marathon_Training_Plans

I don't have experience with many of those plans, so I'm basically taking the author at his word. I assumed I would fit into the "Improver" or "Enthusiast" category and went from there (even though I had never run a marathon before).

Good luck!

Yeah - I would say step back a for a week at least. By like 20%. Just my two cents but doing that now will be loads of prevention against the potential of a more serious injury if you keep hammering away.

You might also consider following a base building plan that would work out a more conservative build. Faster Road Racing by Pfitzinger has good ones that many here have followed. At the very least I've personally been best served by adhering closely to the 10% rule up to a certain point - letting the mileage/intensity settle, and build a little more.

Something else to consider: How the body adapts to increased load is a bit tricky. There are periods where neuromuscular development is at hand (4-6 weeks if I remember) before muscle fiber strength really starts to pick up. Many injuries will become severe in a load increase (which could entail either time, distance or intensity) in the 4-8 week time frame. Because the neuromuscular development surpasses what the muscle strength can support if you push too much. I.E. - tendinopathies are often the result of a muscle weakness or imbalance that puts load on the tendon(s) where that muscle should have absorbed the stress.

I love this book by Jay Dicharry if nothing else the first few chapters really give you an idea of HOW the body adapts to increased load and that in of itself can help you from getting injured and not being able to run.

But I'm probably older than you, and I'm not a medical professional or a certified coach. This is just info I've picked up after breaking myself down ignoring all conventional wisdom and just being genuinely curious about exercise physiology. So grain of salt et al.

Ones I have read and recommend:

Jack Daniels
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F0X7U2S/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Pfitz
https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Marathoning-2nd-Pete-Pfitzinger/dp/0736074600/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510544635&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=Pfitinger

Yessis
https://www.amazon.com/Explosive-Running-Science-Kinesiology-Performance/dp/0809298996/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510544911&sr=1-1&keywords=explosive+running

Noakes
https://www.amazon.com/Lore-Running-4th-Timothy-Noakes/dp/0873229592/ref=pd_sim_14_5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=3QK52ZDHZVX4K6QW383Q

Fitzgerald (one of several)
https://www.amazon.com/Brain-Training-Runners-Revolutionary-Endurance-ebook/dp/B000VMHHBW/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510544985&sr=1-1&keywords=brain+training+for+runners

Ones I have not read but have heard good things about:

Hansons
https://www.amazon.com/Hansons-Marathon-Method-Your-Fastest-ebook/dp/B01C6FBGHW/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510544663&sr=1-3&keywords=hansons+running&dpID=51L6b5-M7OL&preST=_SY445_QL70_&dpSrc=srch


Bill Squires
https://www.amazon.com/Speed-Endurance-Bill-Squires/dp/0977250504

Peter Coe
https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Running-Successful-Racing-Training/dp/1852239972/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510544703&sr=1-1&keywords=peter+coe&dpID=51lmDYFDyLL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch

There is also an out of print (I think) book by Arthur Lydiard that is really good. And for that matter, I am not sure I linked the correct Bill Squires book. One is really good, while the other is an awful, watered-down version.

I have a pretty similar background. I ran in high school, then DIII in college, quit running for many years, got back to it as a pre-masters/masters runner. People kept asking me questions, so I started coaching for free. Then on a spare weekend, I got certified as a USATF level 1 coach, which is really fun. I really recommend it, since you're a T&F fan.

Thanks for the reply. I actually already subscribe to that podcast but didn't see they covered IF, i'll give it a listen.

As far as the study goes, I wouldn't expect a huge direct benefit to racing. Matt Fitzgerald covers this a bit in his book and suggests that training fasted or on a high fat diet can improve your ability to access and burn fat on race day, but there is also a benefit to taking in carbs before running, giving you the energy to perform best during that workout. He suggests doing some fasted long runs, and some non-fasted long runs.

All that said, I think the benefits of IF are indirect coming from the weight loss on race day, not necessarily any potential peripheral benefits to running fasted.

First, congrats on the babies. Double the fun!

Second, it sounds mostly likely that given your times, age, and 40 mpw, you can get below 40:00 for a 10K in 3 months. Mostly. You may need to change up your training a little bit.

You definitely need some VO2 workouts, track repeats. That's probably more important in a 10K training than tempo runs, but you want a healthy mix of both.

The most recommended books around here for generic training plans (which would suit you well I think) are either Faster Road Racing or Daniels Running Formula. You could probably tailor one of those workouts to your time/mileage needs and do very well.

This is all very generic advice though, I second /u/lostintravise's questions. Knowing where the 19:49 and 41:30 times came from, mileage/workouts/how recent, is the biggest indicator. That said, if you weren't following a structured plan, they were recent, and less than the mileage you want to hit, there's pretty good chance you can get to where you need to be.

thank you very much for your detailed response, this totally sounds like me and wow your race times sound fantastic to me, I will be giving the 18/55 a try I think for my next serious marathon (phuket in June) perhaps I can cut the first week of the 18/55 plan to make the timeline fit.

i am assuming you are talking about this book here:

https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Marathoning-2nd-Pete-Pfitzinger/dp/0736074600

I will get that and have a read and then probably do the 18/55 first before trying the 18/70

1 More question on a practicality side, I have tried plans from books before and have never found a simple system of transferring everything into a readable format that I could pin on the fridge. do you tend to create a excel spreadsheet of simply copy the page in the book (I am assuming sometimes dates and rest days have to be shuffled around cause life gets in the way) or do you not keep a log that way?

thanks again for your help :)

27M here (3:00 target for Boston 2020):

• I've run two marathons. The first one, I was targeting 3:05 but ran low mileage, blew up, and finished in 3:22. My second marathon was 1 year later and I hit 2:53:54.
  
• The biggest thing that I did was run more milage. My first cycle, I peaked at 45 MPW. For my second marathon, I started training at 50 MPW and peaked at 85 MPW. Granted, I could not have hit that mileage my first year without injuring myself, so remember that it takes time to build up to higher mileage.
  
• I read Run Faster by Brad Hudson and planned my own training for the second marathon. This, coupled with advice from the many experience marathoners in my running club proved to be better than any boilerplate training plan.
  
• Remember that you will have to make adjustments day-to-day and week-to-week to accommodate little injuries that pop up, life events, work, illness, etc. Being able to make informed adjustments is key to having a successful training cycle.
  
• No single workout will make/break your training, but there are some that are great confidence boosters. I did a 17 mile run with 14 miles at Goal Marathon Pace and felt so strong. It was good confirmation that I was on track to have a successful marathon.

Sounds like you're ready for Pfitz. Many runners on here have used his book, myself included, to excellent results. Additionally you mention wanting longer runs than 16M, the backbone of Pfitz's plan is a LOT of long runs. He's known to drop "medium-long runs" on a Wednesday that are like 12-15 miles and then throw an 18-20 miler at you on the weekend.

The workouts aren't insane, but he definitely gets you with those long runs. If you stick true to the plan, choose the mileage that's right for you and come into the plan with the right base...you'll crush with Pfitz.

Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger

Fun fact, I chose the name for this subreddit based on his book which I first read when I was 17 and training for the Marine Corps Marathon. Also a fun fact, I do not recommend getting into marathons at age 17. :)

We are pretty close to each other for running pace and both in triathlon. I think you are around a 7:10-7:15 pace for 5K right now. The 800s are great for elevating threshold/VO2, and I have found that a good indicator for 5K pace are cruise intervals. These are 3-4x 5-8min intervals at lactate threshold effort (near 5K effort) with 3min recovery effort between. They are great to mix into any training plan. You should be consistent in your interval paces for these. You can reduce the recovery time to 2 then 1 if you are pretty solid on the consistency and recovery improves.

800s are just above threshold effort. I do these at 6:20-6:30 pace. The cruise intervals I do at 7:10-7:20 pace, and I can run the top of that pace in a sprint triathlon. I ran a track 5K in 20:54 at my peak, so I would say around 21:30 for me on a road 5K effort.

EDIT: Training reference I use for triathlon training from the book 80/20 Triathlon :

http://8020endurance.com/8020-workout-library/

I know that feeling, our college nutritionist recommended 2000 calories a day no matter how many miles you're running. Legitimately clueless. Unfortunately this seems to be the norm when it comes to distance running and nutrition.

My best experience has been reading about nutrition, and the book I strongly recommend is Matt Fitzgerald's "Racing Weight", which does a great job of outlining almost every aspect of nutrition from base mileage all the way to racing, and really I think the title does it a disservice because it's much more encompassing than just racing. It goes through all of the carb/protein/fat ratio of calories questions, whole grain vs white flour, whole milk vs skim, etc.

I think it's a pretty easy read and it's the best resource I've found for running nutrition. In terms of actual recipes it's pretty light, but it does have example weeks of a nutrition plan. For recipes, Shalane Flanagan's books are pretty popular, run fast eat slow and her other one.

Link to book: Racing Weight: How to Get Lean for Peak Performance (The Racing Weight Series) https://www.amazon.com/dp/1934030996/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_n3ZWCbD2QCX48

Switching to forefoot striking will be uncomfortable at first if you've been heel striking. It'll require muscles/parts of your leg that weren't used before. They'll strengthen with time. I don't think I'm a better PT than yours but I want to recommend Anatomy for Runners. The book will help you understand biomechanics and your body better so hopefully you can find out why your injuries are occurring. Good luck.

I totally agree with C. Those are great threads.

heres my two cents:

I was 150-155 over the spring, running 30-40mpw and not really eating "clean" or consciously. I was essentially eating whatever came to my plate. Starting in June, i cleaned everything up and started to eat increased fruits / vegetables / non fried foods. Then, I increased my mileage. Suddenly, I started to drop pounds like crazy. I ended the summer around 137-140 after 8 weeks of 50-60 mpw. More importantly, I felt better.

So, my thoughts for you: is there anything you can change in your diet that could help you? Anything you could cut out / cut down on? And, do you think that increasing your mileage / training would help.

Heres a book that might help: Racing Weight

I had a similar injury that took a very long time to heal. What I think finally cleared it up was mainly two things:

1. Taking better care of what I put in my body. Started eating a lot more vegetables and taking a vitamin D supplement. Source: Harvard's Nutrition Source
   
   
2. Changing my form and doing the exercises (mostly hip work) to help facilitate that. For form, I shortened my stride, shifted my foot contact from forefoot to more midfoot, and increased my stride frequency a little. Source: Jay Dicharry
   
   Don't worry about drinking milk. Calcium probably isn't the problem. And I'm really not convinced that soft surfaces help much. (If someone has some real data on this, I'd love to see it.) I think it's at least something like 98% running form and having a strong enough musculoskeletal system to handle training.

Two pretty popular programs around here are from Daniel's Running Formula and Faster Road Racing. As for philosophy it is pretty similar to good marathon training, a little less speed work and a longer long run. You can get away with less, but personally I think it is good to take your marathon mileage and hone it with the extra speed work in a 5k-10k program. Hope that helps!

Got it. A one mile effort is run basically at your maximal oxygen capacity, or VO2max. To increase your VO2max, you need to incorporate some kind of interval training to your runs. This stimulates your cardiovascular system to adapt, increase your maximal aerobic capacity, allowing you to run at faster paces for a longer period of time.

For specifics, both for your goal and running in general, I recommend Daniel's Running Formula, or if you don't want to buy the book, there are tons of summaries online. It's a well validated, evidence based approach to running and training. PM me if you have any other questions. I'm happy to help in any way I can.

Source: Am Exercise Physiologist

https://www.amazon.com/Version-Wireless-Bluetooth-Yoleo-Headphones/dp/B07MRJ9WH6/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_2?keywords=yoleo+headphones&qid=1549826551&s=wireless&sr=1-2-fkmrnull

I tried a different pair of wireless headphones that worked well for a month before they stopped working. Then I got these and they've been working great for 3 months. They're comfortable, have good Bluetooth connectivity, have about a 3 hour battery life (and they charge really quickly), and do fine with sweat. Definitely worth it for $45.

I'd also caution against it. One night of bad sleep before a race is okay, provided you are sleeping well otherwise. At least that's what I got from reading: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Go-Athlete-Strange-Recovery/dp/039325433X.

​

Zzzquil might be fine with your system, but have you taken it before a long run or key workout in the morning? Was your performance changed at all? Were you as strong mentally?

​

I'm only bringing it up since I know that I feel relaxed and happy after taking Nyquil, but my body is just not ready for a big effort. I know this is only anecdotal, and there are different active ingredients, but I'm just bringing it up in case you hadn't considered this angle.

​

I hope you kill it either way!

Quite a while ago I couldn't run in contacts anymore due to an issue with my eyes so I purchased these:

• Sunglasses - https://www.glassesusa.com/shiny-black-large/orleans/32-p7745.html
  
• Regular specs - https://www.glassesusa.com/black-medium/caribou/33-h1773.html
  
  The Caribou's aren't the prettiest things but those things never moved while running with them. I still use them from time to time when I don't feel like putting contacts in. I liked the sunglasses but I also purchased these to keep the glasses from moving down my face which can get really annoying after a few miles - https://www.amazon.com/GMS-Optical-Comfortable-Silicone-Anti-slip/dp/B00DUWLI38/
  
  ​
  
  Good luck man, hope you find a pair you like.

Really late reply, but in training my LRs are generally mostly 24-milers. For early in the cycle, especially in cooler weather, I'm just running easy-ish, so I generally don't bring any nutrition. For later in the cycle, I'm usually doing TLTs or a significant number of MP miles, and take 3-5 gels throughout the run, evenly spaced, usually without water because I'm too lazy to carry gels *and* water.

For races I use this book, which (among other things) recommends 60-90 g carbs/hour while racing. I prefer water to Gatorade in races, so this works out to 9 gels during the race: one a couple of minutes before the gun goes off, and then another every 3 miles. Ngl, it's a lot, and if the weather is warm I'll back off a bit due to limitations on the amount of fluid available. It's ok to have some stomach discomfort during the race - part of the point of taking gels in training runs is to get your GI system used to it (the other part, of course, is to help nail the workout).

Grandma's is a great race - I've never done, but at least a half-dozen members of my club are going this year. Good luck!

While the Hal Higdon plan is certainly workable, I would recommend that someone who is going to do a serious half marathon to spend the effort to get a full book on the subject. Pfitzinger's or Daniels' are both good options. You're probably going to spend more than 100 hours training, it's worth it spend more than 15 minutes developing your plan. These books do a good job of explaining the theory which will help you adjust your plan to your lifestyle, schedule and injuries.

Sounds like you've got some free time, so I would recommend seeing a sports physical therapist, hopefully one with a background in running. I'd also recommend this book which has many drills for improving form and correcting for inbalalances https://www.amazon.com/Running-Rewired-Reinvent-Stability-Strength/dp/1937715752

To piggyback off of this...here is a great interpretation of Lydiard's periodization. Also, the definitive book about Lydiard training (that reads more like a training plan a la Pfitz and Daniels) is Healthy Intelligent Training. Highly recommend (plus it's got Craig Mottram on the cover so you know it's good).

These books are very helpful: Racing Weight: How to Get Lean for Peak Performance and The New Rules of Marathon and Half-Marathon Nutrition.

From a personal point of view: Last year I dropped my weight from 96 kg (212 lbs) to 72 kg (159 lbs). This happened from mid January to the end of June. At this point I was training for my upcoming marathon in September.

I think it's best to lose weight in the early phases of a training program. Another thing to consider is when to eat. Personally I found that I could do most of my easy runs without eating beforehand. When I came back I would just eat what I had planned to eat before, instead of eating before + after. Also, I tracked everything religiously in MyFitnessPal for 8 months. I continued a bit after I reached my goal to be sure I knew what to eat to maintain my weight.

You can see my progress here.

I'm currently a bit heavier after being injured, not able to run, and still eating all the christmas food and cookies! But I started tracking in MyFitnessPal again this Monday. My plan is to be lighter than ever in about 2 months. My goal is around 68 kg (150 lbs). As of this morning, my weight is 76,5 kg (168,5 lbs). For reference, my height is 184 cm (6 feet 7⁄16 inch).

Last time I did this I had no problem with my quality workouts. But maybe I did them too slow compared to what I could have done. I'll have to be a bit more careful this time around, since I know my speed / what I am capable of now.

I pretty heavily disagree with the other advice proffered. Yes, you can adapt your body to burn more fat and fewer carbohydrates in the marathon, but you will go slower by doing so. Carbohydrates are just going to give you more energy, flat out, and energy = speed at this distance.

Most ~faster~ marathoners will be taking in at least 400-500 calories during the race, and they are completing it in the low 2 hour timeframe. It's not unrealistic for someone in the 3 hour timeframe to take in 700 calories.

This book by Matt Fitzgerald is a great resource, he summarizes the point in a lot of articles online if you just search for "Matt Fitzgerald Marathon Nutrition"

I'm a big believer in Matt Fitzgerald's Racing Weight, and as a 5' 7" male his calculator put's my ideal weight at 122.

But the point he makes in his book is that your ideal racing weight is the weight you run fastest at. He suggests recording time trials/race times at different weights to help in finding out what that is. A quick read and highly worth it in my opinion: http://amzn.com/1934030996. From January of this year to ~June I went from 158lb to 130lb following the stuff I read in that book.

As a side note, I'm not sure what you mean when you say burning 1800 calories/day. From the running alone or does that include your base metabolic rate? Even a pretty conservative estimate at 70 kcal/mile puts you at 900 kcal/day from the running alone; add that to a BMR for a sedentary person ~1800 kcal/day puts you at 2700 kcal/day burned.

I'm a fan of Daniels' Running Formula. I'd suggest picking up a copy and following the Red or Blue plan for a season, then trying the 5-10K Training plan. Joining a running club would also be a good option. Good luck!

I feel like there's a lot of people asking about weights and running lately...strange. Anyway, here's a comment I made on a similar post from a few days ago. You should look at the whole post to see what other people say as well b/c I certainly only know myself.

As far as a long term plan, I read Run Faster... by Chad Hudson and while I have seen immediate improvements, I will be using the concepts to form a long term training plan that takes me into training for specific races as well as creating a loose plan for the off season.

Former 400: 52, 800: 156, 1609: 427 runner here.

I'm guessing your season starts in about March so I wouldn't make any big changes. Running miles in the morning can be useful if you're prepared for it. I'd be interested in what your mileage is before recommending doing morning runs.

Calisthenics is a great idea, getting more speed is always a plus. Coach jay johnson is great for strength training for running. http://coachjayjohnson.com/

I'd make the calisthenics apart of your weight lifting routine. Also be careful with the weight lifting if you are inexperienced. Lifts that are good for the 800 are important to do properly. Squats, cleans etc. I'd stick to box jumps, weighted step ups, calf raises, air squats, lunges (weighted or not weighted), push ups/pull ups.

Sleep, i'm sure you've heard it but this is pivotal.

Stretching is another one that can get overlooked.

I wouldn't do anything to crazy 2 months out. But after your season is over I'd take a look at some different training books. Jack Daniels book or peter coe's book and take some advice from those.

https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Running-Successful-Racing-Training/dp/1852239972
https://www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Formula-3rd-Jack-ebook/dp/B00F0X7U2S/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1485570976&sr=1-1&keywords=daniels+running+formula

I would recommend trying everything - make sure you experiment with pre-run food and nutrition/hydration during your run. It's all very personal and you will need to find out what works best for you.

Personally - it takes a lot for my stomach to "practice" using gu. I like gu the best (right now) because I cannot chew shot blocks or gummys when I run. I try to eat a half a gu every 30-40 minutes while running (about every 4 miles). I need to drink water when I eat the gu but on most hot summer long runs I will train with a group that puts out water/gatorade every 3-4 miles for up to 20 mile runs. I had previously had problems stomaching gu during races so during my last training cycle I would force myself to "over" gu during training runs to try and get my stomach used to it. So basically if I was feeling good during a training run I'd just try to eat as much gu as I could possibly stomach. I also use training runs to get over my fear of pudding and gelatin-like snacks (the first few times of the season include some dry heaving)

If you want to go into some more detail I would recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Marathon-Half-Marathon-Nutrition/dp/0738216453

If you’re a fan of sweat elite, I could also recommend you look to the NOP (I know, unpopular opinion) training logs, it’s quite the opposite. Their sample week is something like . Additionally, training for a marathon, and training more specifically for 10-mi and down are two different things.

Also, the easy pace isn’t an indicator of race performance, obviously. It’s an indicator of ability to handle work volume (see Daniels , Hansons , Heinonen & Heinonen , Fixx , and especially Noakes ), which actually supports your statement about the intersection between speed and endurance (threshold runs, tempo-oriented intervals, etc - is at least what I’m assuming you’re talking about).

Furthermore, as I stated in an above comment, this is casual pace. I could tape a one-person podcast at these paces. Granted, because I’m running the audio quality wouldn’t be that great; but these paces feel like a trot. I’m painfully bored, and barely exerting. I’m never above an 11RPE on the 6-20 scale.

Thank you for the notes and article recommendation, though.

EDIT: All About Road Racing link addition.

I listened to it on tape during my long runs, highly recommended. The author is a former elite runner and talks about his own breakthrough race in a helpful way:

https://www.amazon.com/Endure-Curiously-Elastic-Limits-Performance/dp/0062499866

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Have fun with your training and racing!

This is a very very basic question and there aren't any real "tips".

Your best bet is to following a training program and see how it treats you. Most people recommend Jack Daniels or Pfitzinger.

https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Marathoning-Pete-Pfitzinger/dp/0736074600/ref=asc_df_0736074600/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312067454590&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3170337343675217601&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1018127&hvtargid=pla-523949029352&psc=1

Buy that. You’re asking questions that have already been answered by experts in the field. My honest assessment is that if you’re saying you ran 1:42 “without pushing yourself” and can crank out 8 min miles as recovery pace while still asking about strength and eating then you’re nowhere close to BQ. Learn the basics of marathoning, get a plan, and be patient. I’d say you’re 18-24 months away if you do your research and dedicate yourself.

Brad Hudson's book is pretty good too:

http://www.amazon.com/Run-Faster-5K-Marathon-Coach/dp/0767928229

Steps to running a really fast 5k:

1. Download or pirate Jack Daniel's running formula.
   
   
2. Read it
   
   
3. Follow the 5k plan at the back of the book
   
   
4. Run a really fast 5k
   
   Or, I can screen cap you the 5k training plan if you like. Though there is much more value in the book than just the training plan.
   
   Oh and you're gonna need to solve the shin splint problem. I've never had 'em, but it sounds like you're getting advice from others on this. I don't think you're likely to go sub 20 unless you get that mileage back up north of 30mpw.

Daniels has some "Running for Fitness" plans in his book. I highly recommend it.

Daniels' Running Formula has a chapter on 1,500 to 2-mile training. That book is pretty well respected in general, but I've never trained for those distances so I'll let others speak to the quality of the specific mile training advice he gives.

there are dozens of books on this subject - at the moment i'm reading Endure by Alex Hutchinson (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Endure-Curiously-Elastic-Limits-Performance/dp/0062499866).

One of the questions posed is why are we able to a) sprint for a finish line despite not being able to run any faster a minute earlier, and b) why are we able to easily run around a few seconds after we supposedly 'emptied the tank'? (exactly like your scenario).

As far as can tell, the answer is 'we're still working on that one...'

Daniels' Running Formula

Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning

Hansons Marathon Method

I personally like Pfitzinger's book.

Brad Hudson / Matt Fitzgerald would not recommend weights at all for strength training / injury prevention. Their key strength component comes from hill work, including sprints, repeats and progressions. As a trail runner who can handle 50k mountain races on the same mileage as you, I can vouch that no cross training is necessary to achieve this level of strength / injury prevention.

This week, run 30 miles total this week.
Next week, if you race on Saturday, do 10k sunday, 8k mon, 5k tue. nothing wed. thur. friday

check out page 653 Lore of Running you should be doing NOTHING hard until your race. Can't stress this enough.

Its a period of time in between a microcycle (e.g. a week) and a macrocycle (e.g. 5 months marathon buildup and recovery).

Pfitzinger splits a macrocycle into 5 mesocycles for the marathon. Each mesocycle focuses on a particular aspect of preparation for a race.

Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger is my go-to recommendation.

Read Daniels' Running Formula, especially Chapter 10: 1,500 to 2-Mile Training.

I started running in June with a 21:20 or so 5k, and I got down to 18:42 in October. I think I would have been low-18s in November, but I didn't manage to race.

What I did is: buy Daniels and follow it as closely as I was able. That's it.

Can't promise it will work work for you, but it did for me.

Read Pfitz. You can totally kill that PR.