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The first time I read this book was almost one year ago. Reading it again with some more insight was worth it.

Since I read it the first time, I have in fact experienced a difference in my life. It may be an effect of other things as well, but the notion of what is in my control and what is not has become more clear to me. My ability to get things done is better, in that I feel more in control of my time. I also recognize and admit to my own faults in a better way now, compared to one year ago.

I have journaled for over three years, which has turned into a real catalyst for change. Evaluating my actions and finding ways to improve is what drives me forward every day. Since I came in contact with Stoicism, my approach to journaling has become more objective and practical. I look at the essential and quickly deal with issues through either solving them or accepting them.

This goes into two powerful tenets: The refusal to be a victim, and simplicity.

I have not practiced negative visualization or other techniques regularly, but taking worst-case scenarios into account does make some decisions easier.

The main thing that has been ingrained in me is the notion of what I am in control of -- my actions and reactions. I have become much less dependent on the state of people in my environment, in a good sense, as in not becoming 'desensitized' to emotions. I do in fact feel emotions as I always have done, but I feel much more in control of how they affect me.

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The idea of virtue as the sole good is interesting. The existence of preferred indifferences makes it more appealing. Though I have just scratched the surface of Stoicism as a moral system and the metaphysics underpinning it, I am compelled to explore it further. In general, I have become more interested in learning about different systems of philosophy.

Seeing that Stoicism immediately resonated with me when I found it might mean that it is fairly natural to me. I don't think everyone is as 'Stoic', but I doubt that it is just something natural. I would not have seen Stoicism the same way a few years ago, when my life was different. Stoicism is a practical philosophy that is better understood with experience.

I'm currently reading this collection of articles on modern Stoicism, and I can recommend it. I do of course recommend Meditations too. It was my introduction into Stoicism, though I know you might as well read Epictetus or Seneca.

The lack of structure and Marcus' repetitiveness actually makes for very few memorable quotes personally. I will not remember the book for any specific passages, except the general idea of "living in accordance with nature" and what it entails. Like with people we know, we rarely remember them for a specific event. We remember their personality and driving motives. When it comes to Marcus Aurelius, I will remember him for his sensible sense of duty.

We can't be Stoic sages, but we can achieve more congruency between who we are and who we think we should be. Constantly reminding himself of what he ought to be, in the face of both great responsibility and temptation, he knew that the way forward was to embody your words:

>“Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.” - Marcus Aurelius

Thank you for sharing these thoughts; I imagine that wasn't easy.

> My parents placed an emphasis on sports, and on winning. However, I have come to realize that this mindset breeds hedonism. When my purpose in life was to win and seek the most benefits for myself, this attitude ultimately led to mental weakness and a lack of willpower when it came to pleasureful activities. In my opinion, even the goal of being happy leads to a hedonistic lifestyle.

The way I see it, feelings of happiness fall on a spectrum between pleasure (short-lived, visceral, shallow) and joy (long-lasting, subtle, deep), and while seeking pleasure is hedonism, seeking joy is not. Helping others brings (most of) us joy, and altruism is pretty near the opposite of hedonism.

The trick, I think, is balancing our desires for pleasure and joy, as each provides its own stability. Not experiencing pleasure leaves us irritable and unpleasant, while lacking joy leaves us purposeless and depressed. Neither state is ideal for accomplishing anything.

> And now, here I am. I am utterly confused now, when it comes to my life's goals. Should my goal be to make contributions in order to improve human civilization? Or something else? Idk.

One approach I suggest you try is this:

• set aside this philosophical question (for now)
  
• find something tangible that you care about doing—that is, something that brings you joy
  
• focus your time and energy on becoming better at that activity.
  
  This advice is based on the "craftsman mindset" advocated by Cal Newport's So Good They Can't Ignore You, which he presents in opposition to the "passion mindset" that focuses on the question, "What should I do with my life?"
  
  While this doesn't directly address your philosophical questions, following this approach may provide you with a mental clarity that could help. Think of it as a bottom-up kind of philosophy that generalizes from your actions and experiences, rather than the top-down kind that seeks to impose abstract ideas onto concrete reality.
  
  > Apologies for the rant.
  
  No need to apologize, as this is the kind of thought we BettermentBookClub subs like to discuss. I'll tag /u/PeaceH, /u/Skaifola, and /u/TheZenMasterReturns, who may want to respond to you with their own perspectives. They know much more about Stoicism than I do, so they may even answer your questions, unlike me. :)

You're the one that needs to find yourself again then. I'd recommend daily meditation to accompany this meditation book:

(1) Mindfulness: A Practical Guide to Awakening https://www.amazon.com/dp/1622036050/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_wboYAbF706VED

This paying attention to yourself will help you gather your pieces of yourself.

And then I guess you're trying to be someone you're not, to gain the approval and validation of others. Maybe this is from childhood trauma, or how your parents showed you love only when you "acted" in a certain way, but my next recommendation will dive into all that:

(2) No More Mr Nice Guy: A Proven Plan for Getting What You Want in Love, Sex, and Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/0762415339/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_LcoYAbM18P7XT

Then I'd recommend taking these courses created by Jordan Peterson to find out who you are at a deeper level, and then reconstructing you and building you up again but authentically and not as a "character":

(3) 2017 Personality and Its Transformations (watch all these lectures): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQApSdW8X71Ihe34eKN6XhCi

(4) https://www.understandmyself.com


(5) https://www.selfauthoring.com


Put in the work with what each material recommends and you'll grow into your true self. And just to let you know, I used to do the same thing and was a character until I unlocked my true being. My sister even said a few years back I had a "different" personality and it freaked her out, but she could tell from my authenticity and happiness that this is the real me now. The previous me was a character, and looking back, a depressed one at that even though I always seemed "happy".

What helped me also besides the introspective journey I recommend above, is talking to strangers. I'd meet people in bars and what not, and this was during a time when I was trying to learn how to meet girls, but an interesting thing happened: I started noticing how I act around people I don't know, and with the pressure gone of who I "should" be, I had the freedom to be who I am.

Another thing that's helping me to this day, is to get into a relationship that loves you for the real you. This comes after you've discovered yourself, but old habits may come up when you don't even realize it, and with my girlfriend she keeps me honest with myself.

Realize that this isn't a light switch, this is a hero's journey towards finding and unlocking who you are as a person, the peeling back the layers as you gain a deeper and deeper understanding of your true self. Change only happens to those that want it, and the fact that you took the time to read all this, and write what you wrote.. that means you want it.

See you on the other side.

>Do you do this after you read the book, or during?

I'm actively doing this while I'm reading the book. It helps that I'm usually reading a book with my laptop in front of me, but if I don't have my laptop I'll usually just jot down some notes in the margins/highlight/write on scrap papers and then put it in my mindmap later. I see this as being a tool for me to go back and absorb information quickly months down the line so I don't have to reread a book a bunch to pick up ideas again.

> Is the software just for desktop/laptop use or smart phone too? (And how do you use it?)

It's opensource so I don't think they have an app. However there are a bunch of mindmap softwares out there so I'm sure there is one that links to mobile. I just happen to like this one because it's free! As to how to use it, there is a fairly good help page in the software once you download it and you pick up how to use it after reading it for ~30 minutes or so.

> I'd love to see your completed one if you want to post it!

I'll make a post about it or link to it here once I have a good one. Currently filling one out for this subreddit's current reading so I'll post it in a week or two.

>might not follow through with the lessons in the book.

This seems like the obvious avenue for improvement. If a lesson seems promising, try it.

Maybe it would help to try books that are more like workbooks? This is one of the best ever written.

>Don’t Try
Don’t try to achieve this more and more mentality society tells you to do

• isn't hope, the interest to have more a motivation for life?
  If you don't want more, you are losing interest out of life; you are mentally dead. Wanting more is normal and natural.
  
  >Happiness is the problem
  >Find something worth struggling for, not what makes you happy
  
  The science is clear: happiness helps to achieve; to be more productive. You can check out the happiness advantage (https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Advantage-Principles-Psychology-Performance/dp/0307591549) if you think happiness is irrelevant. Indeed, the happiness of an individual is a predictor of his success in many aspects of his/her life.
  
  >You are not special
  >The first step for meaningful self-improvement is admitting you’re normal
  
  Well, unless I am a narcissist, I admit that some part of me is normal; and some part of me is specific to myself. Isn't it a biological reality that every individual is unique to some degree (specific DNA)? how about people are not normal? What if I have a lower IQ than the regular people, am I supposed to consider myself as "normal"?
  This is a stupid generalized advice without considering the reality about each individual.
  
  
  
  This is fucking childish book. I don't want to waste my time pointing out every fucking flawed advise (claim).

Most book summaries are bad in that they don't connect the different themes in an intelligent way to actually allow your brain to comprehend the important details correctly and quickly - which is the point of a summary. The summaries in this sub are quite good, but only because there are committed people who did the really deep digging and can bring up the gems to show you in a comprehensible way.

Reading the book is always, always more beneficial than reading the summary (unless time is a factor, like cramming for a test). You won't get less content from reading the book versus reading the summary, but 99% of the time you will lose content from the summary.

If you are struggling with reading comprehension and retention, I absolutely recommend Mortimer Adler's How to Read a Book. Read it all the way through, deliberately, carefully, then read it again a year later using its own tips. It has helped me get 40-50% more juice from each book since. It's a tremendous capital investment in your reading ability (which will serve you well here and in life).

I didn't join in last month (just found the subreddit), but would anyone be interested in the Handbook of Self-Regulation? http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Self-Regulation-Second-Edition-Applications/dp/1462509517

It's a collection of articles by prominent researchers on the topic of self-control summarizing the dominant psychological perspectives on how self-control works and what affects it. The book is long and very academic, so I'm not sure if everyone would be interested, but I think a thorough understanding of the scientific research is probably more useful than fifty self-help style books. Given the reactions to The Obstacle is the Way being like a blog post with too much filler, this seems like a step in the right direction but it might be an overcorrection for some.

I have three of them. Meditations, Tao Te Ching, and Man's Search for Meaning.

I read Tao Te Ching many years ago. I think it was above my reading level at the time as I can't recall much about it. I wasn't really paying attention to what I was reading or properly digesting it.

I have the Gregory Hays' version of Meditations. It's up next after I'm done Flow. So far Flow mentions quite a few things I recognize from Stoicism. Directly mentions Diogenes in the first chapter.

Man's Search for Meaning will probably follow shortly after Meditations.

I've only heard of the Bhagavad Gita, so that's as familiar as I am with it. I assume it's a book of wisdom or something like that from India.

I do make notes of the books I read, so if you'd like I can forward them to you when they're ready. Currently putting together some for How to Read a Book, The Art of Learning: An Inner Journey to Optimal Performance, and Atomic Habits.

The Five Elements of Effective Thinking

A concise explanation of various strategies to think better and be more creative. Written by two math teachers, I think, which makes it much, much better than some consultant-y, "I made money selling books, so you can too."

I also didn't like Mark Manson's TSAONGAF, but his previous book, Models: How to attract women through honesty, was a life changer. I mean, I'm still trying to implement the principles into my life but it already started to change my life for the better. It's not just for the single guys btw, any man who wants to be attractive should read this book.

off the top of my head:

Meditations, with The Inner Citadel as a reader

Letters from a Stoic

A Guide to the Good Life by Irvine

Do The Work by Pressfield as well as The War of Art by Pressfield

Managing Oneself by Ducker

Man's Search for Meaning by Frankl

What Predicts Divorce by Gottman

Nicomachean Ethics

Models by Manson seems to be popular on reddit

So Good They Can't Ignore You by Newport, as well

I'm currently reading Triumphs of Experience by Vaillant and find it insightful.

Ok, thank you!

Right now I'm reading 12 Rules for Life, but I'll add this to my wishlist for my next read. :)

I just started listening to Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules For Life. My only complaint is it's read in his own nerdy voice. As an atheist I find his bible references are not overbearing or proselytizing but brought up in a form of basic moral truths and therefore palatable when referenced

Gloves? Cotton gloves or gardening gloves. Or try surgical gloves. Or rubber gloves. you can get gloves at the drugstore or the painting store. Go hog wild and get leather driving gloves.

you can get special antiperspirant for hands. https://www.amazon.com/Carpe-Antiperspirant-dermatologist-recommended-non-irritating-hyperhidrosis/dp/B010BVZ1VU?th=1

This stuff actually works really well if you use it consistently: https://www.amazon.com/Carpe-Antiperspirant-dermatologist-recommended-non-irritating-hyperhidrosis/dp/B010BVZ1VU?th=1

I just finished The 5 Elements of Effective Thinking. It's a quick read and some of the topics are obvious but some are not. I'd recommend
it.