(Part 2) Best products from r/Blacksmith

Welcome!

First off, get a lesson. This will let you know if you like it, before you dump more money and boot your car to the driveway. I'm about an hour from you. I started last year with a lesson from Wayne Apgar of Durham Forge when I thought I might be interested in the hobby. Made a few cool things, and learned that it's definitely the hobby for me. It's a little bit of a hike for ya. There might be someone closer, but I can definitely vouch for Wayne. During or after the lesson, ask him for what you need to get started.

http://durhamforge.net/

If this goes well, join PABA ($25/year or so):
http://www.pabasite.org/

The group meets up every other month. I've only made it to a few meetings, but they're really informational - hands-on, if you're up for it, and it's great to meet local guys.

There's also a Philadelphia Blacksmith's Guild on Facebook. I haven't been to any of their meet-ups yet.

For tools, you gotta watch Craigslist obsessively - set up search alerts. You want an anvil that's at least 100 pounds (I like 225-300 pounds, but don't "need" it to be that big), and you ideally shouldn't spend more than $3-4/pound. If you're lucky, you'll find a good one for $2/pound (unless I beat you to it). There's a handful of anvil makers to trust: Fisher (quiet - good for neighborhoods), Trenton, Hay-Budden, Mousehole, Peter Wright, and some others - ask here before buying, if you're not sure, but if you find a good deal, you might have to pounce.

I'd recommend learning from my mistakes, and just buy your tongs, rather than try to bootstrap yourself from nothing. Good tongs are how you stay safe when you don't really know what you're doing. This is a great beginner set:
https://quickanddirtytools.com/products/6-pc-beginner-set

Don't be a hero - wear goggles, and you're probably best off with a thick leather apron - I'm sure someone can recommend a better one, but it's worked for me:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LB7AIBW

I've seen 1st and 3rd book, which are all honestly excellent. 1st is a good for fundamentals, if you're learning in your first few years it really goes into great detail on things. He is very informative on scarfs and forge welding, upsetting etc, like REALLY goes into good detail on setting that up successfully, so that's how I got into him, and I found the first book to be great as it really went down to amazing detail on the topic.

I've read parts of the 3rd book, and it is to be fair much more advanced, but, mind you I'm still "Newish" like I can make many of my own tools etc, I found the 3rd was a really lovely overview of practical application on good looking joining for metal pieces.
https://www.amazon.com/Blacksmith-Mastering-Fundamentals-Traditional-Joinery/dp/0981548091/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1540216778&sr=8-4&keywords=Mastering+the+Fundamentals+Of+Blacksmithing

So in summary, first book was great for helping me learn just how to do stuff, 3rd book goes into amazing detail on methods of pulling it all together and making it look great, and how and why these techniques were developed over the years.

Edit: Mark is also in Cali if that helps, I had to move away before I could take any of his classes.
http://www.markaspery.com/School_of_Blacksmithing/Home.html

Well, in my case, it was the MatSci degree; so, er, yeah, that's an option!

More realistically, the primary textbook we used was: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Materials-Science-Engineering-William-Callister/dp/0471134597/

I'm not really a book sort of person, but I did end up using that one a lot. It's used as an undergrad text in some places, so as long as you've some high school physics/chemistry you should be ok with that. It describes itself as an introduction, and I'd agree with that - there were areas that it stopped a little short on for me; but I'm pretty sure that they will not be areas of practical importance for blacksmithing. (Generally the more esoteric areas).

It does cover more than just metals - ceramics, polymers and composites too. Presuming you want to learn inspired from the smithing, you'll want to focus on the metallurgy - which is understandable, but it's well worth reading a little into the other sorts of materials. The mechanics of plastic deformation are much clarified by considering polymers; the way a cutting edge works is much more like a ceramic; and hypo eutectic steels are actually a metal/ceramic composite in microstructure (and there's lots more overlap too).

Like all academic books, the sticker prices is in the 'eye watering' category; don't let that put you off. Get an older edition, used, and go back until you find a price that suits you. The difference from the latest edition matters in two cases: to follow along with a lecture series; and the 'up to date-ness' of the state of the art stuff - I don't think that either is a good reason for you to pay extra, in this context. Steel is a pretty old fashioned material, and really the point of such a book is education, to give you the grounding so that you could pick up the specific details of a new steel quickly from a few diagrams and a data sheet.

The other stuff I covered (Ulfberht, crucible steel etc), really comes from a separate interest in historical stuff, and that's something I've picked up organically (rubbing shoulders with archaeologists at living history events for a large part), so I'm not in a position to recommend anything there.

You are right about it being mild steel, but it's not "just" mild steel, which is what I was sloppily saying. Sorry for the lack of clarity and I appreciate your point. This steel has roughly twice the yield strength of mild steel (50ksi vs 25ksi) and it is noticeably more resistant to the hammer.

Lots of my initial impressions of it were formed while the air temps were pretty cold, so my heats didn't last long, and it isn't as bad now, with temps in the 60-80F range, as it was in the 30-40F range. Not a surprise, really, but very interesting to experience those differences through hitting it. It's one thing to read something in a book and another to feel it.

My lightweight anvil definitely makes a difference. I was getting frustrated with this specific metal and started staging up to heavier hammers and was working for a while before I realized it felt like the anvil was bowing under my heavy hits. I don't think it was, it just felt like that, because I'd exceeded the hammer/anvil weight ratio and the efficiency of the energy return was dropping off as I hit it harder, which was functionally making it move less. I dropped hammer weights and the movement per hit went up.

The 900g Swedish pattern hammer is what I've been doing most of my smithing with, but I love my new little rounding hammer. It does make a noticeable difference in fullering and it's actually a touch lighter than the 900g (1.984 lb vs 1.75 lb) but I like the mass being close to the handle. [Here's](Anvil Brand 1-3/4 Lb. Rounding Hammer https://www.amazon.com/dp/B012ECOOGC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_M2UezbR2P2G19) the rounding hammer I got. I might get a heavier rounding hammer once I try the new anvil. So excited!

I can give some advice from another person who started young and had an entrepreneurial mindset to my works. To preface, you should, by all means continue to hone your craft and learn and push forward.

First and foremost, find a smith in your area that specializes in your area of interest. I was able to find a master bladesmith in my area who gave classes for $100. Hard to beat working with a true master. A seasoned smith should hopefully teach you the safety and how incredibly important that is. They'll also make sure you leave with something that you've truly crafted from bar to finished knife to understand the process and the craft.

Second, if you aim to have your product on sale and available to the public, you should be willing and able to take some criticism. Be ready for when someone walks in and picks one up and tears it apart because they are well informed in this area. Learn from what they say, don't let it hit you personally. Take the first time you make some number of knives and sell none as a sign that you could be better and let it drive you, not discourage or upset you.

Third, and not everyone may agree with this, but assume your product is nothing special. Be proud of it, take care forming it and sharpening it, etc. But don't be boastful and big-headed about what you make. Just because you made it does not mean you're the expert or that it's worth what you ask.eone else. Or you may make another following it and it'll be even better.

Fourth, don't jump to selling your work. I saw that you have some experiences to spark this passion, but Boye didn't start selling when he formed a knife shape. Take time to appreciate what different steels will do for you, what tempering is vs hardening, so on. The next worst thing to folks picking up your product and just setting it back down with some nasty words are an unhappy person coming back to return it because it fell apart/instantly lost the edge/broke. For what it's worth, check out this book. It taught me a lot.

Lastly, I know you're young and looking to connect with your father. My deepest sympathies. I do understand that feeling. Obviously I don't know him or you or anything about your life, but I would try to chase that feeling over the desire to make money. My proudest, best works have been when I was just enjoying it because I was chasing a feeling and when I could think to myself that I was dedicating my work, my sweat, my aches and pains and cuts and bruises to someone dear. As soon as I started selling more and more, it became a duty and a job and lost that glimmer and that connection.

Best of luck. I know the folks here (the Internet, Reddit, etc.) can sometimes be a bit snippy, but it'll help to toughen that skin and if you can look past the fact that it's hard to convey tone sometimes or whatever it may be and look to what suggestions they have, it'll make you better. Please post your work! Just be ready for when a fellow who has been smithing for a living for 30+ years comes in and isn't impressed and has forgotten how to give uplifting criticism or what it's like just starting.

As for the laws, sadly an experienced bladesmith (in your area) would probably know better than anyone here. I would also advise just googling until you find the law or the right official to ask.

As Aureolin22 said, I doubt the flowerpot would tolerate very many heating and cooling cycles before it broke. Have you considered doing the same thing but lining a small charcoal grill or a cheap steel wok instead?

Serious question: Why is propane not an option? Stores won't sell propane to you, or your parents won't let you?

I ask because you might have good luck making a small propane forge using a spiral flame propane torch, a small coffee can or large soup can, and a 50/50 mix of sand and Plaster of Paris. (refractory cement would probably work as well or better than the sand/plaster mix)

There was a post here on it a short while back. It seemed interesting so I built one myself just to see how well it worked. Turns out, it works pretty good! It won't produce welding temperatures, but it gets plenty hot for forging. It worked even better after I partially closed off the mouth of the forge with three pieces of firebrick. The one I made also has a 9/16" hole drilled through the back so that I can heat round stock up to 1/2" inch diameter anywhere along its length. I have used it twice now for about 30 minutes each time and I still have only used about half of the fuel in the tank. (I started with a full tank just to see how long it would last in one of these.)

If you are interested I can take some pictures of the one I made.

If coal or charcoal is your only option and you want to stay really cheap just dig a little hole and build your fire in the hole with your air pipe poking in from the side. (assuming the powers that be at home won't lose their minds over you digging a hole and you have a yard to dig in.)

I would spend a smidge more on the grizzly version with built in disc sander. I think I paid 95 for mine. Yeah it won't chug through 1/4 stock but for small knives and such it works well enough to learn. 1x30 belts are easy to find on Amazon for a buck apiece or even less, and each belt will probably last at least onr knifes work. 5" sanding discs are even cheaper, and having that large flat area to sand on is hugely helpful for beginners. The whole machine might take some fiddling to get thr belt to run straight or to not have a nasty rattle, but with some tweaks here and there it can run nicely. There are several really high quality knife makers on reddit that use little 1x30s.

Edit: realized what sub I was on so figured I'd ask what you need a grinder to do? Depending on what kind or work you want it to perform should determine if this is a good buy or not

This one is probably the closest to what I have used

Looks like the price on the grizzly model has gone up significantly, but all of these 1x30s are pretty much the same, probably made in the same Chinese factory.

This... but a wire brush on an angle grinder (even a cheap one like:
http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-PC60TAG-6-0-Amp-2-Inch-Grinder/dp/B004X5NNGG/ref=lp_552812_1_1?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1457450934&sr=1-1) will work better and faster then on a drill.
Where there are chips out on the left one, you should probably radius the edges just a little so that you don't get more metal chipping off.

for the wire brush I would suggest something like:
http://www.amazon.com/Osborn-33467SP-Knotted-Stainless-Diameter/dp/B00QK979UO/ref=sr_1_14?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1457451106&sr=1-14&keywords=wirebrush+cup+5%2F8
Twisted wire brushes are very aggressive, so you won't need to work very hard to get the rust off... but at the same time wont do more then polish the steel. Make sure you really have proper eye protection on when you wire brush (or really do anything in the smithy)... wire brushes can throw tiny little bits of wire at high speeds!
These look like two really nice anvils. I'm curious what the makes and weights are... If you did not thank who ever gave you these in a very dramatic way, you should! ... even if you did, you probably should again. These are really nice anvils!

Yes, that's the layering.

Ace Hardware carries it, as does Menards if you have them in your area. Most places that sell anything to do with fireplaces or wood stoves (which I know can be hard to find if you're in the hotter parts of the US) will carry it.

If you go with Ace: The stuff at the Ace closest to my house was old and hardened so I returned it and told them about it, but they still have it sitting on their shelf. You might have to shop around a bit or ask that they order you some fresh. It should be the consistency of mortar (or hummus if that is an easier analogy for you) and you may have to thin it even a little bit more to get it to stick to the top and sides.

There is some available on Amazon as well. You do not want the "castable" stuff as that will have aggregate in it and is more for making custom firebricks.

Something like this: http://www.amazon.com/MEECOS-DEVIL-611-Refractory-Cement/dp/B002OU2Y62/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1375725568&sr=8-3&keywords=refractory+cement#productDetails but you don't need anything like a gallon like that. I think they come in pint and quart sizes as well. Rutland is another brand. I didn't have time to search out more on amazon.

I have used these for my jewelry making, and taught students to use them as well. They are fun, relatively limited but fun.

Same thing but a bit cheaper thanks to free shipping http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008PGCQQ2/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3QHTQ7K1X1PAP&coliid=I1COP38XABS6KX

I have never noticed a difference in quality of the different brands, probably because it is such a straight forward tool. I recommend getting a disk punch to go with it. http://www.amazon.com/SE-Disc-Cutter-Set-15/dp/B0015SNM42/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396589329&sr=8-1&keywords=jewelry+disc+cutter

If you want more info (though I don't know what else there is, really) you might want to try /r/jewelers this I think is more a jewelers tool than a blacksmiths.

Congrats on the new forge, looks like a beauty!

The bottom of my propane forge (similar style to the NC Tools) doesn't get very hot at all. The opening and top get cooking though. Depending on your shop setup, I'd recommend putting it on a steel cart and either modifying the cart or putting some bricks in place so that the forge opening doesn't melt the side wall of the cart. A bonus would be if your propane tank would fit on the shelf below. Give it a sweet paint job, build some tong/hammer holders on the sides and you'd really be in business!

Check this one out.

http://www.amazon.com/Olympia-Tools-85-184-Capacity-Shelf/dp/B003ES5TL0/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1453928106&sr=8-13&keywords=steel+utility+cart

Alright here we go

1. The acid can either be muriatic ferric chloride. Ferric chloride being far safer and much much more common. Dip it and let it sit in the acid for 30 minutes. Take it out and spray it with windex or something else to neutralize the acid. Sand it lightly after with very high grit if you’d like a lighter finish don’t if you’d like a darker finish.
   
   2 i get my ferric chloride off Amazon
   Here’s the exact stuff I use MG Chemicals 415 Ferric Chloride Copper Etchant Solution, 945mL Liquid Bottle https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005T8Y20W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_cw1lDbFSXD42R
   
   3 usually people use ceramic “pellets” but basically anything hard will work the bigger harder and sharper the stones or bits are the tougher the finish.
   
   4 for the stoning part take the blade and stick it into a vibratory tumbler or a rock tumbler I believe with some water for how ever long. Longer is more scratches less time is a less scratched look. The tumbler can be found for about $55 at harbor freight https://www.harborfreight.com/5-lb-metal-vibrator-tumbler-67617.html
   
   
2. Cut the deer antler length wise to get two sides that you can then epoxy and pin onto the handle
   
   A fair price for that would be about $250-$300 but if you get some good fishing spots and because it’s for a buddy I’d charge $200-$225 probably up to you
   
   Hope this helps

I would suggest picking up a book or two in that case. I highly recommend "The Complete Bladesmith" by Jim Hrisoulas and 'The Wonder of Knifemaking" by Wayne Goddard. I have both and they are very good at laying down the steps for making a knife. Also, make sure you learn about knife steel. You won't find it in a local store, but will need to be purchased online (most of the time). Pick a simple steel like 1080/1084 and start using that. Get good at heat treating it, and the move to something else. 5160 is also good to start. Both are forgiving.

Do you treat them so they dont Tarnish? I have made a few copper items and they were getting dark pretty quickly. My friend /u/octopusmadeofknives turned me onto a clear coat for copper called ProtectaClear. I just used it and it seemed to work good. Time will tell if it keeps it from tarnishing. Also have heard you can just clear coat with a poly spray. I've done this on steel rune necklaces.

Not really on the pump... They are reasonably priced, around $100 for a generic one on Amazon... The valve is internal, and works automatically based on internal pressure as resistance rises. I'm not sure there would be an external add on, but if there were, it would almost certainly be more expensive than a replacement pump.

I bought my 5x12 cylinder on Amazon for $155 Check this one out:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CWJSUO/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

It takes a lot of looking, searching and sorting through things, but you can find deals and keep costs down.

I wanted to go bigger on the cylinder, but ultimately decided that from what I've read & saw on various youtube videos that a 5" 28 ton will do everything I want so pulled the trigger on that cylinder & hopefully my build will start this weekend or next!

Good luck!

I did some more research today and i was planning on using kaowool and ITC 100 or something similar, instead of the sand and plaster. I'm just having a hard time finding where to buy both. I also don't know if ITC 100 is the best option.

Edit: Im looking at this for kaowool, and this for the cement.

Amazon has buckets of it:
https://www.amazon.com/Insulation-Morgan-Ceramics-CM-Ceramics-Instructions/dp/B015GD0QCW/ref=sxts_k2p_hero1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=2668835602&pf_rd_r=G7JY4AYZ0B9CXTVCRQ28&pd_rd_wg=XUUs9&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-top-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_w=WtzGd&pf_rd_i=Kaowool&pd_rd_r=AGKF6EF750PA2ASYJBN1&ie=UTF8&qid=1478267175&sr=1

Its pretty cheap to get it shipped around the USA.