(Part 3) Best products from r/Breadit

I don't know if it's heresy, but have you considered a bread machine? I have a Zojirushi Home Bakery Supreme (2 lb), and use it 75% of the time for mixing doughs. I make about 5 loaves/doughs a week in it.

It's super since you can program in your knead times/cycles/types (settings for white/wheat, for example), and mine has an automatic 'punch down' action built around its rising times. On mine I believe I can program up to 3 different rise cycles, each up to 24 hours? The enclosed machine works well for proofing between kneads (don't need to worry about drying out etc.), and I've started to plan meals around the timer function so I can have fresh dough ready for me @ 3pm for dinner that day, setting it up in the mornings alongside coffee & breakfast.

I've read many good things about the longevity of Zo's, and in my experience (several month ownership, making ~5 loaves and/or doughs a week) it's solid and reliable. I even like the loaves baked in it for sandwiches/sweet breads (Bread Lover's Bread Machine Cookbook has LOTS of options).

I know it is missing all of the stand mixer pluses, but for me I'm not a baker of sweets/cakes and already own a pasta machine/assorted grinders and Amazon regularly puts it on sale for $200 free ship/no tax for most, sometimes down to $180 (create a pricewatch with camelcamelcamel for the best deal). There are also other machines with different options (timed yeast introduction, french bread cycles, etc.) but I don't know them, just that they're out there.

Good luck in your search! :)

Welcome to the hobby!

I like this book, The Bread Baker's Apprentice. It's got a bunch of great recipes and goes over the history of bread and a number of traditional techniques, with pictures! Other popular books are Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast and The Tartine Bread book.

A dough scraper, a lame (it's pronounced"lahhm", it's French), a banneton, some decent size mixing bowls with lids, kitchen scale, measuring cups and spoons, pizza stone/s, caste iron Dutch oven (for no Knead bread, super easy place to start), an oven I suppose would help if you don't already have one (extra points if it goes to 550*F).

And to save your arms, a good quality mixer. It'll be expensive up front, but I would recommend splurging on a good quality, reputable brand mixer and it'll last you 30 years if you take care of it. The purists will tell you you HAAAAAVE to knead by hand, and it's definitely a skill you should develop, but it's not absolutely necessary and some recipes would be nearly impossible without one. It'll save you a lot of time, effort and headache.

Anyway, all that should definitely get you started. Not all of it is necessary to start, but you seem pretty interested and serious about it, so I want to set you up for success.

I have a little temperature gun. I'm constantly measuring the ambient temp, water temp, and dough temp. I don't have any formulas but I think it helps develop a feel for how temperature affects the process. For example this time of year my kitchen is typically 65-68 degrees which is pretty cold for room temp, so I decided to put my dough in the oven with the light on (about 75 degrees) between folds for the bulk fermentation. I think that helped.

I think the best advice, though, is not to fret over it too much! It's a lot like yoga, you just have to let go and enjoy your own journey. Embrace the ebb and flow of gradually improving with practice. There are so many variables to play with and no perfect loaf.

It would be worth grabbing a cpl of books I'd say. There is just to many different opinions on what's the best and I think a cpl of books are the best way to start in the right direction and from there branch out.

I would grab the river cottage bread hand book. Its not the best recipe wise but it is the best I've found for a general explanation and general understanding. I'd also grab dough http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1856267628/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1398719766&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX110_SY165. Really liked this one. It one of those books that has a lot of stuff you would cook and the general doughs are great.

From there start your own exploration and bread adventure.

You could make a sourdough starter. It'll take about 1-2 weeks so hopefully if you start now it'll be ready once you need it. You can follow these directions: https://www.theperfectloaf.com/7-easy-steps-making-incredible-sourdough-starter-scratch/ That starter has a higher percentage of water than FWSY's, but you can just switch to the feeding method in the book once the starter becomes active.

You could also make sure you have all the supplies necessary. At a minimum you'll want:

• kitchen scale: A recipe weighs about 1800g, plus the mixing bowl, so make sure the scale goes that high. https://www.amazon.com/OXO-Stainless-Pull-Out-Display-11-Pound/dp/B000WJMTNA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482510750&sr=8-1&keywords=oxo+scale
  
• dutch oven: The book recommends 4 qts. I've had success with 3.2 qt combo cookers. Two dutch ovens would be even better as all the recipes are for 2 loaves. https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-LCC3-Cooker-Pre-Seasoned-3-2-Quart/dp/B0009JKG9M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482510707&sr=8-1&keywords=combo+cooker
  
• thermometer: Ken Forkish is very particular about the temperatures in his recipes. https://www.amazon.com/Lavatools-PT12-Javelin-Thermometer-Chipotle/dp/B00GRFHXVQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1482510838&sr=8-2&keywords=pen+thermometer
  
  Nice to haves:
  
  
• Banneton proofing baskets: You need something to put your dough in as it rises. In a pinch, a mixing bowl will work. Banneton baskets are purpose made for this. I use an 8". The ones I've bought are no longer sold on amazon, but I suspect any 8" to 9" round basket will do. Heres one: https://www.amazon.com/Forsun-Banneton-Brotform-Proofing-Rising/dp/B01CNV40D6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1482511260&sr=8-4&keywords=banneton+proofing+basket
  
• Big tubs for mixing: Most mixing bowls are frustratingly shallow for 1800g recipes. He recommends these in the book. They're pricey, but they do work well: https://www.amazon.com/Camwear-Polycarbonate-Round-Storage-container/dp/B000KIE73I/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1482511122&sr=8-5&keywords=12+qt+cambro https://www.amazon.com/Cambro-RFSCWC12135-Lid-Round-Container/dp/B0001MRULO/ref=pd_bxgy_79_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NNK0EN78A5YB6WWHQDRK
  
  Note that he has a section in the book on equipment, so you could wait to read that before spending money, but all the items linked above have worked well for me.

Agree with the earlier comment of kneading for longer. I've found that I need to knead for anything between 5-15 min if doing it by hand.

While kneading, you're "stretching" out the gluten and it is normal for the dough to "rip" as you put it depending on the flour type. But the fact that your knead is getting tighter (as you mention) indicates that you're doing the right thing as you're on your way to build up an elastic gluten structure. However with low-to-medium gluten content flour (such as rye and spelt) you won't get the same silky-thin elasticity as you get with white flour.

This image shows on the left a wholemeal dough and, on right, rye dough. Maybe it can give you an idea of how different the dough can stretch when using different flour types (spelt should be somewhere between these two).

I've found that using 100% spelt/rye yields a rather heavy brick-like bread and personally I find that mixing 50/50 or 75/25 with (very) strong white flour yields bread and consistency that I like better myself :)

Regarding kneading techniques, I've found it helpful to knead in a push-away-from-you, then bring it back and turn 90 degrees and repeat. Something similar to this if it makes sense.

These images are both from the River Cottage Handbook No. 3: Bread. Pretty good book to get you started and teaches you a few basic techniques (just don't trust their Brioche recipe, it is the devil!)

Tip: You can over-knead, at a certain point the gluten structure collapses and the dough goes from firm to soggy/sticky again. You can't recover from this and the batch needs to be binned. This however is unlikely to happen when you hand knead (as your wrists will usually give up before).

Recipe:

• 7 oz. King Arthur whole wheat flour
  
• 10 oz. King Arthur bread flour
  
• 1.5 teaspoons salt
  
• heaping 1/4 teaspoon instant yeast
  
• heaping tablespoon Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten (to improve rise and texture)
  
• 15 oz. water
  
  Mix dry ingredients, add water and mix with a wooden spoon or hands until dough forms a shaggy ball. Cover and let sit 18-24+ hours.
  
  Uncover dough, mix dough briefly with a wooden spoon or hand until large bubbles are released.
  
  To form and proof the dough before baking, I take a regular loaf pan and line it with a large piece of parchment paper, with plenty of overlap over the sides, to make a sling for the dough. (If you are making a round loaf, use a small skillet or bowl instead). Place the dough into the lined loaf pan, then I spritz the top with a little olive oil to keep the dough from sticking. Cover again, and let it rise for at least an hour.
  
  When your dough is ready to bake, place a dutch oven, crock pot insert, or ceramic baker in your oven and heat to 450 degrees F. I use a SuperStone covered loaf pan, and I love it. Let your vessel preheat for 15-20 minutes, then carefully use the overlapping ends of the parchment paper to lift your dough and place it in your baking vessel. Cover and bake for 15 minutes, then remove cover and bake for an additional 10-15 minutes, depending on your oven.
  
  Remove baking vessel from the oven and carefully transfer your loaf to a cooling rack, removing parchment paper.
  
  Let bread totally cool before slicing and enjoy!

Yeah for sure. I use this wakame. I rehydrate then drain squeezing out any extra liquid. Wakame is pretty mild, but I don't want the bread to be briney, I'm looking more for umami. I use 70g of rehydrated seaweed.

For my flour percentage, I do 82% bread flour to 18% rye flour (I like to use Bob's Mill Dark Rye). You can do more rye, but for me this is the perfect balance with the seaweed.

I'm planning on making some this weekend, so I'll be sure to get a good photo and post it so you can check the bread out. This bread is so incredible with eggs or to make avocado toast. Sometimes I simply toast it with butter and sea salt.

Hi Tom. This was a pretty basic loaf that I decided to bake for Easter this weekend. Fed my starter around 8pm Friday night. Around 7am the next morning, I built my levain, which was 50g white flour, 50g water to 50g mature starter for a total of 150g levain. I also began my autolyse, which in my case was 330g white flour, 95g whole wheat flour and about 315g water. I was aiming for 78% dough hydration given a 100% hydration starter. I did a longer-than-normal autolyse this go around where I left the flour and water to mingle for 4 hours. Around 11am, I added the 150g starter and incorporated using the pincer method. I left the mixture to get a head start for 30 minutes before adding 11g (2.2% by weight) fine sea salt. I left for 30 minutes and began the first of my 4 stretch and folds, which took place every half hour beginning at noon and completing the fourth and final at 1:30pm. I then allowed the dough to rest until about 6pm, at which point I shaped and placed into a proofing basket for a long, slow overnight proof in the refrigerator. At 7am Sunday morning, I preheated my oven to 500F which contains a pizza stone and the largest stainless steel bowl out of this set. After an hour of preheat, I scored my loaf, placed onto parchment paper and placed onto the pizza stone. This is where it can get a little tricky, with dough in my left hand, my ove-gloved-right-hand I open the oven, pull out the bowl and set it on the open door. I place my dough down on the stone. I grab my spray bottle (mist setting) and while holding the hot bowl, spray 4-5 times in the bowl and quickly place over the loaf and shut the oven door. I have found the pizza stone/bowl preferable to my dutch oven, as not only does it allow for a variety of dough shapes (the D.O. is especially conducive to boules) but the D.O. tends to scorch the bottom of my loafs, at least in my oven. I let it bake for 20-25 mins, then I remove the bowl and let it go for another 15-20 until desired crust color has been reached. I like them dark. Anyway, thanks for asking, let me know if there is anything I can clear up about this method.

You can get most of them from Amazon. I've been using Ken Forkish's recommended Cambro clear plastic bins with covers and they work great, 12qt for mix / rise and the 6qt for sourdough storage. You can get bannetons and bench knives from Amazon too.

Get a 2nd dutch oven so you can do two loaves at once! 10" Lodge cast iron ovens are fantastic and durable and have tons of uses outside of baking too.

Maybe the most important thing you can get for her if she doesn't have one already is a kitchen scale. One that goes to 1g would probably suffice though if you're doing smaller yeast measures you might want .5g or .1g.

Also recommend getting a thermometer.

Of course if you're in Canada and are Amazon impaired hollar and I can let you know where to get this stuff in the 3rd world above the 49th parallel.

Amazon is your best friend for pretty much all those items. The tub that is highly recommend would probably be a cambro. Here's a 12 quart that's perfect for doing the FWSY recipes:


Camwear Polycarbonate Round Food Storage container, 12 Quart https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KIE73I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_ja1BwbC27NDE2

Once again, thank you very much. I promise I will do my best to develop a new starter without commercial yeast.

Unfortunately I cannot get pure Rye Flour in my country. I will buy something like [this] (http://www.amazon.com/Bobs-Red-Mill-Organic-22-Ounce/dp/B004VLVFHG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381184711&sr=8-1&keywords=rye+flour) from Amazon; In order to get it shipped down to Costa Rica. If you can recommend something better than this let me know.

On the cheaper end of things - bowl scraper and dough knife - sounds lame, but make clean up so much easier. I use the dough knife to scrape the flour off my work surface, it works really well. I bought these http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MUSWMKQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1. I would also love the polycarbonate 15 L round container recommended by Ken Forkish, unfortunately no luck finding one yet, but in the US you should be able to get one easily enough.

We just got a laser thermometer like this, and have found it great so far. There is a slightly cheaper model as well. Good luck!

https://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Lasergrip-1080-Non-contact-Thermometer/dp/B00DMI632G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1487966083&sr=8-3&keywords=laser+thermometer

Hi! Not a dumb question. You do not need a bread machine and I would argue that most people in this sub do not even use a stand mixer

I use a special pan, but you do not need to. You can use a baking stone

A dutch oven

Or something like this

I personally like the last two options because they give me a really nice crust. I use the third item (long, covered baker) most of the time because it is easier to cut even slices of bread later.

Get yourself a book as /u/ETABLERT said. The River Cottage Handbook on bread its a good one.

Get a container, some flour from your preferred supplier, a big container and get going! Do some reading, there are plenty of on-line sources, plenty of good books out there.

Starting your own sour dough is as easy as mixing flour and water together.

That said, if you did want to buy a start then Bakerybits.co.uk sell one. I have used them several times, and found them to be really good. The site in general that is, not the starter.

Thanks!!

I used the recipe from The Breadbaker's Apprentice by Peter Reinhart.

Honestly, it's just worth it to buy the book - Reinhart is a BOSS...

fortunately, some saint already posted the recipe on reddit. lol

Happy baking!

Good scraper: http://www.amazon.com/Winware-Stainless-Steel-Scraper-Handle/dp/B0017HUR9E/ref=sr_1_4?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1374002969&sr=1-4&keywords=Bench+scraper
It's half the price of others, we use these in the pizza restaurants. Don't worry about running it through the dishwasher. It will be good for years and years to come. And it's only $4

Good bowl scraper: http://www.amazon.com/Ateco-1303-Bowl-Scraper/dp/B000KEUKO2/ref=sr_1_7?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1374003125&sr=1-7&keywords=Bench+scraper
It's a bit expensive to me for a small piece of plastic, but it is still only $3. Does the job, it's cheap, will last long time. I would buy two just on case.

Now, treating wood cutting board? Personally, I don't. I wouldn't know the first thing about what oil to put on mine. My grandma didn't, her mom didn't. You get the idea I'm heading for.

Edit: purpose of straight edge scraper is to help portion the dough, scrape the flat work surface of debri. Straight edge does not score the dough and is not intended to scrape out bowls.

You can improve the flavor and crumb by employing a pre-ferment. The best books I've encountered that discuss the different types of pre-ferment are:

Bread Baker's Apprentice by Reinhart.

Bread by Hamelman.

Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast by Forkish.

Tartine Bread by Robertson.

Also, definitely watch the NYT No-Knead Bread video.

Really nice. Personally I use a nesting set like this.

https://www.amazon.com/Chefn-Pastrio-Bench-Scraper-108-667-226/dp/B00MUSWMKQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_11?keywords=kitchen+scraper&qid=1573797361&sr=8-11

What are the advantages to having multiple ones like you made?

You're probably better off asking for bread machine help on /r/BreadMachines. You'll also want to provide more information: Make/model, age of the machine, whether you checked that the loaf pan was firmly & properly inserted (what I would first think of and what I think your problem is from), whether this noise is repeatable.

Personally, if I had a new machine and was sure that I had attached the loaf pan properly, then I'd return the machine to the store.

I have a Zojirushi and it will make the same noise as you describe if the pan isn't afixed properly. The first time that happened to me, I had set the timer to have the bread ready for the morning. It started kneading at 4 AM and the clatter caused me to jump out of bed. :-)

This is my list:

• kitchen aid mixer ($350)
  
  
• Dutch Oven ($50)
  
  
• good digital scale ($20)
  
  
• good thermometer for the kitchen ($10-20)
  
  
• Mixing Bowl set ($20)
  
  
• Bakers Couche ($15)
  
  
• Banneton ($10) (x2)
  
  
• Commercial Food Storage ($5-10) (x4 because I use these a ton)
  
  
• Bench Scrapper ($5)
  
  
• Measuring Cup (2 cup size)
  
  
• Measuring Spoons
  
  
• Pizza Steel Or Stone ($40-80)
  
  
• Loaf Pan
  
  
  Total = $620 (no tax)
  
  
  add in an awesome workbench table for 300 and you are good to go.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007WTI8J2/ref=emc_b_5_t This scale is the one I'd go with. I did not like the KD-8000, bigger and clunkier to use. Thermapen is great, but if you have the cash, an infrared thermometer is also kind of amazing.

I'd recommend buying a ceramic kiln shelf, you can bake 3 loaves at a time on one. And a full size sheet pan to line the bottom of your oven so you don't fry your element in steaming or blow out your pilot light. That's the setup I was using at the last restaurant I worked in.

If you want the simplest no-knead approach as a foundation for variations, I'd recommend Jim Lahey's My Bread. He's less up-tight about details than Ken Forkish, but the bread is just as great, and there is a lot more variety (e.g. carrot bread, olive bread, cheese bread, coconut-chocolate bread). But it's not a comprehensive recipe book.

If you want a more traditional book of recipes, I'd say check out Reinhart's Bread Baker's Apprentice or Beranbaum's Bread Bible.

This time I wanted to try something I learned from America's Test Kitchen (but with a crucial difference which I explain below): they do an "almost no-knead bread recipe", that they bake in a dutch oven as well, but instead of preheating the cast iron it in the oven, taking it out when it's hot, placing the dough inside it, and putting it back in the oven, what they do is place the dough inside the cold (well, room temperature) cast iron right at the beginning, and preheat the oven with the dutch oven inside it with the dough, and start the timer as soon as they put it in, so, for a regular size loaf, they count 30 minutes from the moment they put it in the oven, and then another 25 (iirc) with the lid off.

But, here's the difference I mentioned earlier: before I made the ones in the dutch oven, I made the other loaf of bread you can see in the picture (in one of these; so my oven was already hot, just not as hot, since the previous loaf baked at around 400, and the small ones at 425, so, while not as hot, it certainly wasn't cold.

All of that made a difference, so that's why I really couldn't tell you exactly how long they will take if you use another technique, like preheating the dutch ovens, or starting from a cold oven.

Note: in their website, if you go to this recipe, you'll see that they have conflicting information. They first say that you should preheat the oven and only then start the timer, however, later they go on to say what I mentioned before, that you should put it inside as soon as you turn on the oven, and start the timer right away.

I have the original recipe from ATKs website in a PDF, if you want it, but I don't know how to share it. :/


I hope my explanation made sense.

TL;DR: No, I did not preheat the dutch ovens.

I use parchment paper or a [teflon equivalent] (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008PB4CB4?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf). It makes it much easier to get the dough into a hot cast iron dutch oven and makes clean up much easier as nothing sticks

I found two linen bread bags on amazon and I love them. O line them with parchment paper when I store fresh bread and it lasts for a very decent amount of time. I haven’t had to wash them yet but they’re very washable. Natural Linen Bread Bags - 2-Pack... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076KT472Y

The manufacturer of the KAF pullman pan is USA Pan, and it is indeed an excellent pan! However, I would highly recommend purchasing the same, significantly cheaper, model from Amazon!
And a photo of my anadama bread I made using this pan.

brown paper bags are a classic. However, if you want to step it up a bit, there are some with a bit more shiny outside and a plastic window. That might work for you. Like these: https://www.amazon.com/Bread-Kraft-Brown-Window-Bakery/dp/B07KG45W7P/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?keywords=paper+bags+bread&qid=1554814112&s=gateway&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1
or fabric ones: https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Linen-Bread-Bags-Housewarming/dp/B076KT472Y/ref=sr_1_18?keywords=paper+bags+cotton&qid=1554814126&s=gateway&sr=8-18
These are pricey but maybe friend can return them? They also have unprinted ones that would be cheaper.

I was also about to buy 12qt and 6qt cambro's on Amazon as well, but found both the lids and containers cheaper at my local restaurant supply store. I would look and see if you have a similar store near by. Bonus is they have cheap bench scrappers and stuff too.

Edit: Is this what you were looking at? https://www.amazon.com/Cambro-Camwear-RFSCWC12135-Covers-Container/dp/B0001MRULO

Bench Scrapers! Or, Bowl Scrapers. Personally, I have one of each. Also, super hot and soapy water.

I suggest these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001MRUUU/

Clear is better to see the activity

Thanks!, its the glorious Flour Water Salt Yeast book by Ken Forkish: https://www.amazon.com/Flour-Water-Salt-Yeast-Fundamentals-ebook/dp/B007SGLZH6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523906966&sr=8-1&keywords=FSWY

"Flour Water Salt Yeast" by Ken Forkish (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/160774273X/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_aJ1sybPYAT05H) gets consistently good reports here.

I'd also recommend "Dough" by Richard Bertinet (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1856267628/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_AH1sybKH7YCJG)

and Paul Hollywood's "Bread" (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1408840693/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_-F1syb7TKQJWA)

It's a popular book.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007SGLZH6/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

maybe something like this? slightly less then $60.

direct link, just in case

Its a book, also
https://www.amazon.com/Flour-Water-Salt-Yeast-Fundamentals-ebook/dp/B007SGLZH6

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007SGLZH6

The cloche I used.

With a no-knead recipe it could be that your loaf is rising but then collapsing in the oven.

Is your dough rising properly during the bulk fermentation phase?

Have you ever tried one of Ken Forkish's recipes? https://www.amazon.ca/Flour-Water-Salt-Yeast-Fundamentals-ebook/dp/B007SGLZH6