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\> I know they say you have to be okay on your own before you can be in a healthy relationship- but it seems like a tall order if you have no support. Just wondering if anyone else can relate.

I used to believe that you have to be okay on your own, but now I disagree with statement. Based off of my personal experience and information knowledge of trauma and attachment, I've revised my belief: Even if we don't need one (1) human to be our other half, we need the right social circle and the access to the right resources to have a solid foundation in order to have the skills, motivation, and support make progress toward their goals, feel secure, and be happy.


While I'm not a professional psychologist, what's working for me is trying to be vulnerable but being careful about who I do it with. There needs to be some thought about who I share it with, like what am I trying to do by sharing it with *this* specific person. Am I feeling some inner pain that I believe this person can ease? Am I sharing an experience that I think they will understand? If they don't understand, am I sharing this because I still trust them and I want to bond with them?

I believe healthy relationships is a balance of *relying* (as opposed to needing) on the *appropriate* people depending on the situation (as opposed to relying on the same person for every situation). Sometimes we will take risks and be let down. Over time by doing so, you refine your radar to know who is the best person for a feeling, situation, or experience.

Wishing the best in your healing.

CoDA has some meetings you can Skype into... but, that might be weird(?) I’ve never done it.

And yes! Exactly! So much happiness pent up in that one person. If I had to put money on it, I’d say your attachment style leans toward the anxious . But honestly, there’s plenty to be proud of with that attachment style: insecure-anxiously attached folks are usually fiercely loyal, ready and willing to work out problems, and love with their whole hearts (which is why when it gets broken it reeeeally gets broken). Anxiously attached folks are a kind of “mind reader” because they are super cued in to people’s emotions. Once you get some of that childhood trauma worked out you’ll be able to partner up with someone that complements those qualities a little better and you might learn to 1) give some compassion to yourself, 2) learn to regulate your emotions when that fear of rejection sneaks up, and 3) feel more secure and worry about your own emotions instead of constantly worrying about your partner’s.

Another book I recommend is by famous researcher Brenè Brown called Braving the Wilderness . Both Attached and Braving are available as audiobooks which can make for an easier “read” when you’re stressed out.

Hang in there!

I hear you, brother. While freedom of religion does tend to include freedom from religion here in America, the loss of social interaction and camaraderie that crops up when one goes ardently atheist or agnostic can be a problem, especially if one was raised in a culture that conditioned, instructed, socialized and normalized them to intra-cultural codependency... as most cultures do to varying degrees.

I had to get way into the study of comparative religion from outside the box of belief in order to specialize in a rapidly growing niche field of psychotherapy for those who have exited the more extreme forms of belief generally called "cults" (though the definition of that term encompasses a great deal more than "fringe religions").

I hope that seeing the cover of this old vinyl music album helps a bit to clarify that I understand the conflict.

My "empirically observant, (hopefully) rigorously scientific" mental identity understands the concepts outlined in articles like this one and has no inclination to want to be part of anything like that or this or this, of course. But well beyond that, I've no willingness to subscribe to beliefs of any kind (if interested, see this and/or this in my reply to the OP on that thread).

Nor does my mind care for the overweening, possibly drama-addicted and counter-dependent, dog-with-a-rag-in-its-mouth, stridence of atheists like Dan Godless Barker or Richard The God Delusion Dawkins. (Though it can and does make plenty of room for what thy have had to say.) As a result, I have had to come to terms with being All By Myself -- at least intellectually -- and ambiguity- and conflict-tolerant enough of what the rest of humanity (save for yourself and a few others) believe that isn't so whacked out that I cannot tolerate being in their presence.

And while that's not always a comfortable space, I have been able to come to terms with it by understanding such concepts as Stan & Carolyn Block's "requirements" (a keystone feature of their Mind-Body Bridging system), Arthur Deiman's notions on Personal Freedom: On Finding Your Way to the Real World, his buddy Charles Tart's Waking Up: Overcoming the Obstacles to Human Potential, Joel Kramer's The Passionate Mind and two dozen of Jiddu Krishnamurti's game changers including As One Is: To Free the Mind from All Conditioning and Freedom from the Known.

It may well be for you, btw, that Sufis like Rumi, Khalil Gibran and Idries Shah, as well as "semi-Sufis" like George Gurdjieff, will provide both increasing release and comfort. IDK4S, OC, but I hope you'll do what one needs to do to "rise up through the fog" (as the famous American band, the Jefferson Starship put it many years ago, using metaphors from author Carlos Castaneda), stay out of the mental quicksand and yet be okay with the limitations of others less fortunate than yourself.

This book isn't so much about boundaries but I think it's an overall great book to read to have a healthy life with better values. It's called The Subtle Art of Not Giving A Fuck

This book does touch on boundaries but it's mostly how to change your perspective of adversity and change for the better.
Hope that helps? :)

Don't have a "story" (like this) to tell, but do know The Way Out (after 26 years in CoDA):

1. CoDA's Patterns & Characteristics;
   
   
2. The Five Stages of Recovery to see were one is in them;
   
   
3. Sternberg's nine types of love;
   
   
4. This article on an existential out-of-the-box view of romantic love;
   
   
5. CoDA meetings;
   
   
6. This article further quoting a young Krishnamurti on being alone vs. being lonely;
   
   
7. The 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to see what is going on and know what to do about it;
   
   
8. Alanis Morissette's "Jagged Little Pill" CD or MP3, listening carefully while reading the lyrics;
   
   
9. Pia Mellody's Facing Love Addiction, especially with respect to the flip flop from addiction to avoidance;
   
   
10. Anne Wilson Schaef's Escape from Intimacy on the same topic;
    
    
11. Barry & Jane Weinhold's Flight from Intimacy on the same topic;
    
    
12. DBT's "FAST" boundary-setting skills group.
    
    To which I will add this article because most of the codependents I have know who went through situations similar to what you have described came from families that operate like small cults.

I am currently six months in the program and I too struggle with the belief of a higher power because I am an atheist. However, I have found that putting my belief in the universe… Even just simply imagining giving all of this horrible pain and struggle and turmoil and anxiety up into space has brought me some great relief. I finally asked my home group, admitting my strain on this.... what to do as a non-believer.... and a woman in my group recommended this book to me. I have not yet read it myself but I have it queued up in my list to purchase very soon. I hear it’s really great so I thought I would share with you.

Waiting: A Nonbeliever's Higher Power https://www.amazon.com/dp/1592858252/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_OuyOBbW9DV87A

Edit: fixed some words. Also PS.... i’ve grown an opinion to think that giving something to your higher power is just like the buddhist way of thinking to “let it go”. I hope this helps :)

Okay, read this book. It’s a bit science heavy, but literally changed my life on attachment behaviors and helped me recognize when I’m falling into them.

Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment and How It Can Help You Find-and Keep-Love: The New Science of Adult Attachment and How It Can Help You Find--and Keep-- Love

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0049H9AVU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_HHWBDbTR78S7C

Not sure if this will help but I just wanted to share my opinion. With codependency, we tend to lose our identity, I've definitely lost mine before in relationships and I wrote a blog post on my experience here so you're not alone. When we lose our identity we tend to forget/lose what's important to us to start people-pleasing others. (https://famous4love.com/identity/)...

But what's been helping me lately was this idea called essentialism. It's very similar to the idea of boundaries which my therapist recommended but it's more inwardly focused on helping you find what's the most important (essential) to you and how to stick to only that and say no to other things. Totally worth looking into since it seems like you need help finding a purpose or something that's vital for you to focus on. Here's the book I started reading. —https://www.amazon.com/Essentialism-Disciplined-Pursuit-Greg-McKeown/dp/0804137382

Then you can afford therapy, which was one of your concerns. Most therapists are willing to negotiate a lower fee if you are a college student, unemployed, or without insurance.

It is wise to be careful about which therapist to see. Finding a good therapist is hard. A big mistake that I kept making was going to the first therapist that was close to me and had an opening for an intake. Don't do this!! I wasted years doing this, because I ended up feeling guilty about leaving a therapist when things were not working out. My guilty response here was very codependent.

You want to research therapists online and find one that looks like a good match. You can google "codependency therapists" along with your local city to see which therapists are available. You can also use psychology today:

http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/prof_results.php?&city=New+York&state=NY&spec=503

Codependency is very common, and there are therapists that treat it in almost any major city. It might also be helpful to find a therapist who has treated BPD patients since you said your mom was BPD, like mine. These therapists would have a much better idea of what you have been through. Here is a book that helped me:

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Borderline-Mother-Unpredictable-Relationship/dp/0765703319

Good luck!

I am an atheist in coda as well and my own higher power is the universe and nature. I read a book called "elements of pantheism" that really influenced me and now I identify as a pantheist. You can be an atheist while still believing in the higher power of "the universe" and being connected to something bigger than yourself. And pantheism does not necessarily propagate any form of organized religion or dogma. It is pretty self defined. Carl Sagan was a pantheist, for instance. His quote "we are made of star stuff" kind of encapsulates the spirituality of pantheism. Now I can pray to "the universe" and feel like I am a part of something bigger than me without it being too illogical or cheesy. And here is that book too, if you're interested. elements of pantheism hope that helps!

Hey, I am new to my awareness of my codependent everything. It has shaped me for years and I dont know how to act without. Your post resonated with me for multiple reasons, but my most recent relationship was with a heroin addict. We have talked about getting back together, but I know it will be a bunch of work, and I dont know if either of us is far enough along in our recovery. I would recommend you check out this book, it may be helpful for you. Even if it doesn't turn out the way you would like, maybe it will give you some solid footing. Good luck - you are not alone.

\> So what's your opinion on things like meditation and talking therapy such as CBT?

My understanding is that CBT sort of works, in the same way twelve step programs sort of work. As in, it doesn't actually solve your problem but gives you some skills to cope with it better. Which is of course way better than nothing, but I've seen no compelling evidence that you can somehow CBT/meditate/release/process the trauma away for good.

\> Am i correct in thinking that what you are saying is that personal disorders such as codependancy is more likely to be inherited and not learned? If so I'm still not sure why that could mean therapy might not work?

We don't know, but there is overwhelming evidence that most of these disorders (along with other human behavior) are heritable. A good popular overview of this is this book: https://www.amazon.com/Blank-Slate-Modern-Denial-Nature/dp/0142003344/.

I am not giving medical advice, and you should certainly follow the treatment plan outlined by experts that you feel works for you. I just stumbled into the sub, saw the title of the post ("Childhood trauma causes codependency in my opinion & can be worked on by healing this trauma"), and it seemed to go against my instincts given the (very limited) literature I've read on the broad subject of personality traits and behaviors.

In "Breaking Free of the Co-Dependency Trap" there's reference to the fact that society is built upon codependence and that more than 8-in-10 people are codependent, but that fewer than 1-in-100 work on it. That's not a measure of severity, of course, but to answer your question - everyone deserves connection, love, and relationships. That you can be real about who you are instead of the toxic person you behaved like by default is a plus, not a drawback.

For a book that combines the best of codependency literature with insights gained from recent research, IRON LEGACY by Dr. Donna Bevan-Lee (one of the founders of CoDA).

https://www.amazon.com/Iron-Legacy-Childhood-Trauma-Transformation/dp/1795461799/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=iron+legacy&qid=1573359490&sr=8-1

I highly recommend this book: “Attached”:

https://www.amazon.com/Attached-Science-Adult-Attachment-YouFind/dp/1585429139/ref=asc_df_1585429139/

And, remember that if you’re clingy and your partner is happy with you anyway, don’t over-worry. That’s not to say you don’t work on yourself - we all should. But also don’t let your fears ruin a good relationship.

The CoDA blue book is for men and women.