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u/khaosworks · 4 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

While the idea that the Great Link can create a planetary scale warp field is undeniably a cool one, I'm not sure that it's supported by on-screen evidence. That being said, there's nothing that explicitly says they can't do something like that, but like the other commenters in this thread, I think that if they had the ability they would have used it at some point during the Dominion War.

I don't think, however, that the Founders rest on any delusion that they are gods. Unlike say, Apollo from TOS or the Ori from Stargate, they don't present themselves as gods to those they encounter. They certainly take advantage of the perception that they are gods to the Jem'hadar and the Vorta, but those are species which they have had a direct hand in genetically manipulating.

The question then becomes, where does the perception that they are gods from those species come from? Sure, there could have been a grand demonstration of their divinity as OP posits, but the problem which such grand displays that they need re-enacting every generation or couple of generations or else they just vanish into myth and eventually somebody is going to start questioning.

So it comes back to the inference that if they had this grand power of planetary scale warp travel, they would have used it. Or even if they had some kind of epic god-like power, they would have used it.

So how do they maintain that iron-clad grip of certainty on the part of the Jem'hadar and the Vorta that they are gods? Maybe the answer lies in the fact that both the Jem'hadar and the Vorta are genetically engineered. Can it be that the belief in the Founders' divinity is hard-wired into the genetic code of their servitor species?

Odo suggests this to the defecting Weyoun 6 in "Treachery, Faith and the Great River":

> ODO: Has it ever occurred to you that the reason you believe the Founders are gods is because that's what they want you to believe? That they built that into your genetic code?


> WEYOUN: Of course they did. That's what gods do. After all, why be a god if there's no one to worship you?

Did Odo know this for a fact from his contact with the Great Link or was this just a dig? And was Weyoun 6 being snarky back?

But even if Odo was guessing, perhaps Weyoun 6 wasn't being facetious in his retort. In a 2002 book, Why God Won't Go Away: Brain Science and the Biology of Belief, Andrew Newberg and Eugene d'Aquili talk about studies on brain activity during moments of religious experience. The studies used single photon emission computed tomography (SPECT) to image regions of the brains of Tibetan Buddhists and Franciscan nuns which responded to altered states of consciousness during prayer and deep meditation.

They found that the human brain is genetically wired to encourage religious beliefs and to have spiritual and mystical experiences. During deep meditation, there is an increased activity in the frontal lobe area of the brain — it lights up at the peak of meditation. This was seen in an image of the brain taken during a transcendent experience.

The idea that there is a region of the human brain devoted to spirituality is not new. A few years before that, neuroscientists at UCSD identified such a "God Spot". The question is, I suppose, did God create our brains or did our brains create God? Is evolution predisposed to the idea of spiritual realms as an advantage or is the development of such a center pure chance?

That aside, maybe Odo's remark to Weyoun 6 really is correct: that the Founders, in creating the Jem'hadar and uplifting the Vorta into humanoids, inserted code that made them view the Founders as gods - they would literally have no choice in the matter, even in the face of contradictory thoughts or evidence (unless a chance mutation or defect took away or muted that genetic predisposition, like it did for Weyoun 6 in "Treachery"). This would also explain Weyoun 5's certainty about the divinity of the Founders even when, at the same time, he scoffed at the Prophets and Pagh-wraiths ("Tears of the Prophets"), and Weyoun 6's reaction to the suggestion of genetic manipulation as above.

u/kraetos · 42 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

This is certainly a theory I've heard before, back in the Enterprise days to explain why NX-01 looked "more advanced" than NCC-1701. And of course, we haven't seen much of the USS Discovery yet, but what if it's the missing link? Ceramic, smooth, and bright in some places, metallic, jagged, and dark in others? That line about Shenzhou being old from "The Vulcan Hello" was a little too conspicuous for it not to be a setup for the fact that Discovery is much newer.

That excerpt from Desperate Hours is really interesting, too. There's certainly precedent for different assignments having different uniforms, e.g. Sisko switching back from the shoulder-color uniform to the TNG-style mandarin collar when he was reassigned to Earth in "Homefront."

Small nit, though: Desperate Hours isn't canon. Books are never canon.

But on the topic of books, the excellent Star Trek Federation: The First 150 Years also makes the case for the Connie being a radical leap forward in starship design. I love this book and I recommend anyone interested in this period give it a read, as it performs a lot of really clever canon "patch jobs."

This book suggests that not only was Robert April the first captain of the Enterprise, but that he was also the driving force behind the design of the Constitution-class. Here's an excerpt:

> April became increasingly convinced that a bolder step in starship design was needed. He envisioned a large ship manned by a crew in the hundreds—many of them scientists, provided with the latest research technology—with a sturdier design, and the ability to sustain a longer mission Without contact with a repair base. The ship could also serve as the front line to defend the Federation, but its mission, like all Starfleet ships, would primarily be one of peace. After serving aboard the Los Angeles for three years, he requested a transfer to the Starfleet Logistics Command to pursue his dream.

> April, an eclectic man with a love of science, had his own unique charisma. Once transferred to Starfleet Logistics, he rallied the department around him to pursue his project. He sought the help of a new generation of engineers and scientists to help him with his design. First, he wanted this ship to be fast. For decades, no Federation starship had been able to break the Warp 7 barrier. The Federation Science Academy had embraced the theory that it was in fact a time barrier and that exceeding Warp 7 would cause a ship to travel backward in time. None of the Federation adversaries had been able to break this barrier, so this point of view prevailed at Starfleet for decades. It ended with April.

I can't recommend this book strongly enough if you're into Federation history or starship design.

u/flameofloki · 5 pointsr/DaystromInstitute



>"Nature" doesn't exist in any meaningful way, on Vulcan or elsewhere. If you draw a distinction between what is "natural" and what is "artificial," and place the "natural" in a position of primacy, then you have to decide what is "natural" and what is not. That decision is arbitrary, and is itself an entirely artificial construction. Are the tools used by apes "natural?" The languages of cetaceans? The music of birds? The structures built by insects? Is romantic love "natural," considering it was invented a thousand years after the steam engine?

The idea of what is or is not natural does exist. A stone sharpened and used by a primate is not equivalent to the feeling of sadness or happiness. If you were born with a leg, had it amputated and replaced with an artificial leg that artificial leg will usually be considered less desirable than the leg you were born with. If the urge to create a highly specific structure is part of what an insect is born with then it's natural. Birds are inclined by nature to sing and Vulcans are inclined by nature to feel.

>If there was ever such a thing as a Vulcan "state of nature," before the current era, the move away from nature to the current state is not necessarily good or bad. Emotions are not in themselves virtuous. Civilizations move neither toward a more perfect realization of their potential nor toward inevitable and total collapse. They simply change to reflect forces that act upon them, as all things do. Vulcan civilization changed in response to unrest in a way that provided stability at the expense of experience. If Vulcan public schools teach a kind of emotional control that stifles their experience of life, the Vulcan people are aware and choose to continue. The Vulcans are no different from humans in this respect.

Vulcans are presented with choice, but that choice resembles extortion. "Choose this path or be cast away from your family, banished, and stripped of a productive future even though you haven't harmed anyone" is hardly a rational choice to present to a child.

>Human civilization has, over the centuries, chosen to encourage thoughtful behavior over reactionary behavior. At one point there were no laws, and someone came to power and made his will the law. Over time, this was undone and more just laws were put in place. This move is born not from fear of tyranny, but from sympathy - sympathy for those who are harmed when people act without considering the consequences on the lives of others. Thoughtfulness protects the freedom of those who are weaker, which protects everyone's freedom.

The issue isn't whether Vulcans are sympathetic or not. They claim to suppress all emotion instead of understanding and dealing with it. In humans, this kind if behavior often results in mental problems and Vulcans are so compatible with and similar to humans that they produce neurologically viable offspring with each other. Why can Vulcans not simply stop claiming to have no emotions and still behave ethically?

>To understand why Vulcans think before they act, and even think before they feel, look at the results: Vulcans who are within their health and their sanity commit no crimes; they abandon no poor or weak; they do not abuse each other, or neglect each other, or condescend. When we see Vulcans do wrong, they are far from Vulcan, or they are unwell, or they are children.

Not true. "Healthy" Vulcans participate in and support a society that tells children that exercising free will while harming no other person will get them cast away, banished, looked down upon. Healthy Vulcans should be doing all sorts of different things because they're sentient individuals and not cardboard cutouts from an assembly line.

>What we see as "Vulcan stoicism" is a complicated and ancient social contract that reaches into every aspect of life. Vulcans understand that they have a responsibility to reach out to every other life they encounter, and know that the comprehension of the experience of the other is only possible through the intellect. Emotional response is inherently selfish and destructive

Except that an emotional response is not inherently destructive and selfish. If a person comforts another person this can be without selfishness and is not destructive.

>while also being beautiful and creative. As we see on a number of occasions, Vulcans do have emotions - what makes them unique is that in every moment of their lives, they attempt to behave mindfully, purposefully and with specific intent to fulfill their obligations to the other lives in the universe. The Vulcan civilization is the only one in the galaxy that has a successful, operational model for preserving the benefits of civilization without succumbing to the pitfalls of governance.

That's purest speculation. The pitfalls of governance can be just as great when the people running it avoid empathy and can take destructive actions based on faulty logic.

>The Vulcan virtue of IDIC, or infinite diversity in infinite combinations, is at the heart of that success. Emotions are subjective (only personal, and not diverse in this sense) and finite (in that they are only ever your own).

In the Trek universe your emotions can very well be the emotions of others. Also, empathy and the understanding that people experience similar types of emotions provides enrichment and inspiration. It's subjective but it still is.

>By harnessing them, Vulcans overcome the limitations of identity and create what is possibly a paradise.

Trek claims that Vulcans do not harness emotions. It claims that they suppress them and pretend that they're not there.

Sorry if this is messy. This can be terribly trying on such a small screen.

u/saintandre · 36 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

>Vulcans were under great duress when they chose the course their society is currently on but in doing so they completely discard vital elements of sentient life that nature has written into their being.

"Nature" doesn't exist in any meaningful way, on Vulcan or elsewhere. If you draw a distinction between what is "natural" and what is "artificial," and place the "natural" in a position of primacy, then you have to decide what is "natural" and what is not. That decision is arbitrary, and is itself an entirely artificial construction. Are the tools used by apes "natural?" The languages of cetaceans? The music of birds? The structures built by insects? Is romantic love "natural," considering it was invented a thousand years after the steam engine?

If there was ever such a thing as a Vulcan "state of nature," before the current era, the move away from nature to the current state is not necessarily good or bad. Emotions are not in themselves virtuous. Civilizations move neither toward a more perfect realization of their potential nor toward inevitable and total collapse. They simply change to reflect forces that act upon them, as all things do. Vulcan civilization changed in response to unrest in a way that provided stability at the expense of experience. If Vulcan public schools teach a kind of emotional control that stifles their experience of life, the Vulcan people are aware and choose to continue. The Vulcans are no different from humans in this respect.

Human civilization has, over the centuries, chosen to encourage thoughtful behavior over reactionary behavior. At one point there were no laws, and someone came to power and made his will the law. Over time, this was undone and more just laws were put in place. This move is born not from fear of tyranny, but from sympathy - sympathy for those who are harmed when people act without considering the consequences on the lives of others. Thoughtfulness protects the freedom of those who are weaker, which protects everyone's freedom.

To understand why Vulcans think before they act, and even think before they feel, look at the results: Vulcans who are within their health and their sanity commit no crimes; they abandon no poor or weak; they do not abuse each other, or neglect each other, or condescend. When we see Vulcans do wrong, they are far from Vulcan, or they are unwell, or they are children. What we see as "Vulcan stoicism" is a complicated and ancient social contract that reaches into every aspect of life. Vulcans understand that they have a responsibility to reach out to every other life they encounter, and know that the comprehension of the experience of the other is only possible through the intellect. Emotional response is inherently selfish and destructive, while also being beautiful and creative. As we see on a number of occasions, Vulcans do have emotions - what makes them unique is that in every moment of their lives, they attempt to behave mindfully, purposefully and with specific intent to fulfill their obligations to the other lives in the universe. The Vulcan civilization is the only one in the galaxy that has a successful, operational model for preserving the benefits of civilization without succumbing to the pitfalls of governance. The Vulcan virtue of IDIC, or infinite diversity in infinite combinations, is at the heart of that success. Emotions are subjective (only personal, and not diverse in this sense) and finite (in that they are only ever your own). By harnessing them, Vulcans overcome the limitations of identity and create what is possibly a paradise.

u/impshial · 6 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

If you're looking for books that don't require a lot of prerequisite reading to understand, some of the old numbered Trek books are quite good.

One of my favorite OLD TOS books is Black Fire. This book has superb writing and Pirates!

Another of my favorites is an early DS9 book called Fallen Heroes. Brutal and sad, with a lot of Quark and Odo.

Anything by Peter David, Keith R.A. DeCandido, Diane Duane, Diane Carey (before she forced sailing references into everything), or Ann Crispin.

For the authors I listed above, here are my favorites from them:

  • Peter David: Q-Squared. This is a dimensional-hopping book with fantastic twists and turns, and packed full of David's perfect dialog. Other Q books by David include: Q-in-Law and I.Q.
  • Peter David: The New Frontier Series. Combining characters from other Trek shows and books, Peter David weaves a wonderful tale full of humor and adventure.
  • Keith R.A. DeCandido: Articles of the Federation. basically The West Wing in Star Trek. Fantastic characters and great writing.
  • Diane Duane: Her Rihannsu series basically defined what modern-day Romulans are like. Beautiful writing and vivid characters.
  • Diane Carey: Captain's Table: Fire Ship. My favorite Captain's Table mini-series book. janeway is forced to join another crew as a lowly worker when Voyager is lost to her. Love this book SO much. Other good Diane Carey books include Best Destiny and her involvement in the Star Trek: New Earth mini-series.
  • A.C. (Ann) Crispin: Some say her Yesterday Saga is her best Trek, but of all her work, I loved Sarek the most. A wonderful look into the life of Spock's father.

    Hope this helps!
u/uequalsw · 11 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

To add something further: there have actually been several great works of literature translated into Klingon, including Hamlet and Much Ado About Nothing".

In
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, we hear Klingons quoting the "To Be Or Not To Be" soliloquy from Hamlet. Below, I've included the Shakespearean original, the Klingon translation of that piece, and then included the backtranslation from Klingon into English. You'll see that while the Klingon translation takes some liberties, referring for example to the "torpedoes and phasers of aggressive fate" instead of the "slings and arrows" thereof, it's still quite well able to capture the original.

Shakespeare:
To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.

Klingon:
taH pagh taHbe’. DaH mu’tlheghvam vIqelnIS.
quv’a’, yabDaq San vaQ cha, pu’ je SIQDI’?
pagh, Seng bIQ’a’Hey SuvmeH nuHmey SuqDI’,
‘ej, Suvmo’, rInmoHDI’? Hegh. Qong — Qong neH —
‘ej QongDI’, tIq ‘oy’, wa’SanID Daw”e’ je
cho’nISbogh porghDaj rInmoHlaH net Har.
yIn mevbogh mIwvam’e’ wIruchqangbej.
Hegh. Qong. QongDI’ chaq naj. toH, waQlaw’ ghu’vam!
HeghDaq maQongtaHvIS, tugh nuq wInajlaH,
volchaHmajvo’ jubbe’wI’ bep wIwoDDI’;
‘e’ wIqelDI’, maHeDnIS. Qugh DISIQnIS,
SIQmoHmo’ qechvam. Qugh yIn nI’moH ‘oH.

Back-translation:
It either endures, or it does not endure. Now, I must consider this sentence.
Is it honorable, when one endures the torpedoes and phasers of aggressive fate?
Or, when one obtains weapons to fight a seeming ocean of troubles,
And when, by fighting, one finishes them? One dies. One sleeps. One merely sleeps.
And when one sleeps, it is believed that one can finish the pain of the heart
And the thousand revolts which one’s body must succeed to.
We are certainly willing to initiate this way to finish life.
One dies. One sleeps. When one sleeps, perhaps one dreams. Well, this situation seems to be the obstacle!
What we can soon dream of, while sleeping in death,
Having thrown away from our shoulders the cargo of the mortal —
When we consider that, we must retreat. We must endure disasters,
Because this idea makes us endure them. It lengthens the life of the disasters.

Marc Okrand also published The Klingon Dictionary, which, especially for language + Star Trek nerds, is actually quite fun and funny, with lots of in-jokes alongside actual linguistics stuff. I highly recommend.

Another interesting point that I'm not seeing discussed much in fan circles: the new Star Trek series,
Discovery (which I highly recommend) features spoken Klingon more prominently than any series prior. Entire scenes are conducted in subtitled Klingon, which had been seen previously, most prominently in the third and sixth Star Trek films, but nothing approaching this extent. In 15 episodes, Discovery may have tripled or more the amount of canonical on-screen dialogue in Klingon. What's of note is that Marc Okrand is not actively involved in the show's production (as I understand it). Instead, a Canadian woman who might otherwise be described as a "superfan" is the show's primary Klingon consultant and translator (with Okrand's blessing). I believe she does correspond with him, particularly with regard to new words, but she does all of the actual legwork of bringing the Klingon language to screen.

So we're seeing an interesting shift in the process of the Klingon language, inching it away from the artistic creation of one individual, and moving more in the direction that /u/gloubenterder describes Tolkien languages as having arrived at-- taking on a life of their own, beyond the imagination of their original creator. (Love your post, by the way, /u/gloubenterder!)

Another interesting thing about the Klingon in
Discovery: as discussed in this somewhat spoilery thread (and, by the way, I should say that all* discussions at /r/DaystromInstitute are fair game for all spoilers, without spoiler tags, so read at your own risk), the showrunners this time around have taken the language, particularly in accuracy of grammar and punctuation, much more seriously. Looking back at that thread, I actually see /u/gloubenterder themself makes a good overview of how Klingon was used well and not-so-well in various iterations of the franchise.

If you're interested in phonology and phonetics, I myself got into the action with some discussion on the topic (particularly in my reply later downthread from this link), drawing entirely on material from Okrand's dictionary.

So, going back to your original question: while the growing vocabulary base is still not as large as a natural language, Klingon itself has been extensively described and documented to provide sufficient detail to enable its continued development. All that's left to be done is give it time.

u/begege · 20 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Honestly? Here - this will tell you like every single inconsistency in the entire series - there's tons of them: http://www.amazon.com/Nitpickers-Guide-Next-Generation-Trekkers/dp/0440505712

The moon is very populated in Star Trek - but special effects cost money - like making the moon look like it's covered in colonies. TNG is back before good CGI so it's not like they could just have their 3d populated moon model and throw it into any scene they wanted quickly with computers. The special effects utilized in TNG are expensive techniques - minor details like making sure the moon colonies are visible often just get ignored.

u/ckemtp · 3 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Hopefully the mods won't mind that I posted this too much because you're sick and probably need something to do.

This is the technical manual they're referring to

I highly recommend you purchasing it in a hard copy. It's a great book to read whilst recuperating. Hope you feel better soon.

  • For purposes of in-depth discussion I shall ask which of the on-screen Doctors you believe would best treat your infection.

u/ColemanFactor · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

Dude,

Picard in First Contact:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T09uSM0PxcE

Jake & Nog:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx5I7uEEEYo

Memory Alpha: Description of Federation Economics:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/New_World_Economy
Under the New World Economy, material needs were no longer the focus or driving force of many people, rather, it was self-improvement, self-enrichment and the betterment of all. This effectively eliminated social problems like hunger and poverty and, as a result, >>>>>money was no longer used.<<<<<<Humans took great pride in this, describing themselves as having "grown out of their infancy." >>>The Federation, however, continued to deal with other cultures which had money-based economies, using credits, trade or negotiation instead.<<<<< (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, TNG: "The Neutral Zone", "The Price", "Time's Arrow, Part II", Star Trek: First Contact)

Some cultures like the Ferengi did not appreciate the Federation's economic system. As a consequence, and in accordance with their extreme capitalist mindset, Ferengi historical records on 21st century Earth describe Wall Street with reverence. (DS9: "In the Cards"; VOY: "11:59")


DS9 was Bajoran territory. Bajor was not a member of the Federation. It used a money-based economy. Thus, Bashir was provided with a stipend by Starfleet to use outside the Federation.

Transporter credits does not apply use of currency. It implies a way of allocating a scarce resource. Every Federation citizen could be granted 30 transporter credit a month. This is akin to a monthly bus or train pass.

Kirk 'sold' his ranch is him speaking euphemistically. Kirk himself says money doesn't exist in Star Trek IV:
https://youtu.be/MEflt_tFRa4?t=268

Harry Mudd & Cyrano Jones operated outside the Federation. The Federation, as Memory Alpha notes, uses the Federation credit as a financial instrument with non-Federation societies.

Jones was a trader. He traded with non-Federation societies.

There are whole books written about Star Trek's post-scarcity, no-money economy: https://www.amazon.com/Trekonomics-Economics-Star-Manu-Saadia/dp/1941758754

You can ignore all the evidence if you like. But canon is canon (until it's retconned), money is not used within the Federation.

u/adramaleck · 11 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Ummmm well it isn't everyday I can be Santa but here you go. Best Star Trek book ever written. Probably one of my favorite sci fi books period.

​

https://www.amazon.com/Q-Squared-Star-Trek-Next-Generation/dp/0671891510

u/rtwoctwo · 3 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Several others have mentioned it already, but Peter David's Q-Squared is the Trek book I've read the most - probably 5 or 6 times. At the same time, it's not a book I would recommend to new Trek fans - there are plenty of little details / background information that might be missed. It also has the benefit of being a stand-alone book, which means you don't have to read half a dozen books to find out what's going on.

If you are in the mood for a massive read, the Millennium trilogy by Judith & Garfield Reeves-Stevens is pretty hefty. Like Q-Squared it's a standalone, but it's a much (much) bigger story. The omnibus edition is nearly 1,000 pages long. However, since you haven't seen all of DS9 it might be a bit... confusing (at the least).

https://www.amazon.com/Millennium-Terok-Prophets-Inferno-Space/dp/0743442490

Lastly, I'll note that Destiny by David Mack is another large-scale story. It does build off of earlier events, but is also a good jumping on point for later series.

https://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Complete-Night-Mortals-Souls-ebook/dp/B00AHE24ZS

u/zoidbert · 2 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

> Heard there is a novelization of the episode (and maybe a sequel novel?)

Novelization, "Relics" (Amazon Link)

Sequel Novel, "Dyson Sphere" (Amazon Link)

The novelization goes into more detail, and there's a nice extended version of the holodeck sequence, including interaction between Picard and the TOS crew.

The follow-up was a fun read, IMO. Goes into a lot more detail about the Dyson Sphere, its builders, the space around it, the life in it (the Enterprise was wrong in the episode; there's life there). It's been years and years since I've read it, so I can't go into more detail.

An aside: the novel Engines of Destiny (Amazon Link) goes into some more detail about Scotty's trip on the Jenolen (sp?) and a certain TNG character who helped him decide on that journey.

u/midwestastronaut · 2 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

>How is that not ridiculous? I work for a top secret intelligence service. Here's my badge that proves it! LOL

Reality is unrealistic

https://www.amazon.com/Could-Tell-Then-Would-Destroyed/dp/193555414X

u/MelofAonia · 3 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Non-canon, but I really like Q Squared (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Q-squared-Star-Trek-Next-Generation/dp/0671891510) - incorporates a couple of alternate realities and a really good story.

u/06Wahoo · 3 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

If you haven't gone and searched for them yet, here is an link for the Kindle versions. A fantastic read, well worth $15, even for a digital copy.

https://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Complete-Night-Mortals-Souls-ebook/dp/B00AHE24ZS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1499306800&sr=8-2&keywords=star+trek+destiny

u/Bobby_Bonsaimind · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

> In TNG onward there is little or no mention of these positions on the ship.

Is supported by the Star Trek TNG Technical Manual, I can't find something about a dedicated tactical/weapons room. The deckplan does also not list a room for it.

Well look at that, who knew that the saucer section does have an aft torpedo launcher?!

u/AngrySpock · 4 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

As with all nitpicking threads, I feel the need to shout out to Phil Farrand's Nitpickers Guides from the 90s. Here's the one for TNG. He also did TOS, TNG Vol. 2, and DS9 through Season 4. He did one for some of the X-Files too.

OP, if you like finding the little inconsistencies in Star Trek, I highly recommend seeing if you can find these guides.

u/TheMastorbatorium · 0 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

There may be 'better' ways depending on your goals, and would The Prime Directive not apply in most cases?

Non-sentient/non-warp capable life would automatically become exempt, unless that life was on a Federation member world. You can't mess with the natural order of things for the sake of it, they appear to be very darwinian about it all, if it wasn't fit to exist in it's environment for whatever reason, then they leave it to die.

"The Prime Directive is not just a set of rules. It is a philosophy, and a very correct one. History has proven again and again that whenever mankind interferes with a less developed civilization, no matter how well intentioned that interference may be, the results are invariably disastrous."
—Jean-Luc Picard, Symbiosis

..So you're limited to Federation member worlds, who have sentient warp capable species living on them, who'd be directly affected by the exinction of that species, and they'd probably have to show a legitimate need for it.

Cloning is so 2370. If you're using Augmentation techniques, why not go full Soong and design 'better' animals?

We know that before Kirks time way back in 'Season 5' of Enterprise,
in the book "The good that men do" Charles Tucker, working for Section 31 goes to Adigeon Prime to get his genes resequened to enable him to pass as another species.
(The same planet a 7 year old Bashir is taken for similar reasons).

So gene manipulation is definitely a thing before, during and after Kirks time. B'Elanna even tries to design her own baby in Voyager

The Federation have access to 'Genesis Wave' technology, technology that can create life from nothingness, but can't really be used as the Genesis technology itself was/is still flawed, due to the use of protomatter as a substitute for the ['Taurus meta-genome'](#s "Discovered in the Taurus reach by a team involving a young Carol Marcus") in the Vanguard book series, and further explored in the 'Genesis Wave' TNG books.

Why not use the Transporter? It'd be faster, we know from the tng episode 'Second Chances' that the transporter can create identical copies of complicated life. If you've got a copy of for example Riker.jpg in the database, why not fiddle with the genes at your leisure, print out a few test runs, do a Tuvix.

There is an ongoing theme in the books, Post TNG/DS9/VOY era regarding the Andorians. Basically, due to needing 4 people to procreate, the Andorians have been slowly going extinct, and there is an ethical debate over whether the Augment research should be de-classified so that they can [try something else to save themselves.](#s "They tried a lot of things, but a lot of the promising ideasor thoughts are rejected, either by xenophobia, or the scientific community after disastrous results. They even start photocopying citizens ala Thomas Riker, via the transporter") In the Star Trek Titan series of books

If the conservation of the whales brought 'back' from the 80's, was even a remote priority, then they would almost certainly have been cloned and 'augmented' to repopulate the species. One breeding pair, doesn't have the genetic diversity to support healthy generations of offspring, (despite what the bible says) brothers & sisters mating allows errors in DNA (which would ordinarily be filtered out with partners with different enough genes) to propogate, leading to retardation, affirmity, disability and the eventual death of that species. (Again).


*edit for spoilers and formatting. /sigh I'm an idiot who can't get that last spolier/link to work, you're just gonna have to hover over it, i'm done trying to edit it.

u/JProthero · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

I included two brief quotes from the TNG Technical Manual in my post on a similar topic to this here, which I think suggest the show's technical advisors had exactly what you describe in mind when they were thinking about how to depict the behaviour and abilities of replicators.

u/sillyquiet · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

This sort of thing has a long, long history in Star Trek fandom.
I wouldn't get too upset about it; like the cliche about there being no light without darkness, it's easier to recognize and laud good Trek when we identify what makes for bad Trek.

u/NoOscarForLeoD · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

This one?. I lost my hard copy in a move, years ago.