Best products from r/Dzogchen

EDIT: Also, if you're finding the anticipation of the dialogue distracting, it may be useful to keep in mind that it's not the dialog itself that is causing the "problem". The distraction is the problem, not the dialogue or the anticipation. (I love the question "Can you feel the shape of your hands?")

I found this topic through Sam Harris as well.

I found that Mahamudra for the Modern World was what I was looking for. It's quite pricey, but it's as close as I could get to getting an authentic teacher without traveling and upending my current life. I also found that spending that large amount of money made me take the CD's more seriously and commit more time to them. A bit of a placebo I think, but it was still effective. He also has various shorter and cheaper CD options for guided meditations on his site, but I don't have have experience with those so I can't comment on them.


The CD's are a combination of lectures and guided meditations. It's given me a far more "deep" understanding of the concepts, but also resulted in some of the most profound experiences and realizations in my life. In particular, a mix of tummo and metta meditation about halfway through the series had a huge effect on my state of mind and resulted in huge changes in how I lived my life.

If the CD's aren't an option, I would also recommend Secret of the Vajra World
by the same author, which has been recommended on this sub in the past.

This will be focused on the conceptual understanding of the practice, but I still find it valuable and fascinating.

Also, be aware that you'll be asked to imbibe some religious thinking/concepts (in the words of Harris) as you start pulling information from Dzogchen and Mahamudra instead of from more Western sources like Harris.

Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, the spiritual head of the Dzogchen Community passed away recently. His teachings are truly wonderful, and I'm sure someone will continue his lineage, but it may be a little while before direct transmission is given again in that sangha.

That said, he has some introductory Dzogchen books that are not only fine to read before practicing, but would generally be recommended to do so. In order to practice, one needs to have some understanding of the teachings. The most important factor in this is ones teacher, but that can certainly be facilitated by reading.

His key introductory books would be:

The Crystal And The Way Of Light

Dzogchen The Self Perfected State

Dzogchen Teachings

Teachers fully capable of giving direct introduction and guiding students through the Dzogchen teachings are few and far between. It's likely you'll have to connect with someone who isn't in the UK. However there are some first rate teachers who make trips to UK every year, such as Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche and Tsoknyi Rinpoche. Mingyur Rinpoche also often teachers here and nearby countries. All of them also have books that it would be a good idea to read just now, along with online courses that would help to get started in practice before you can meet them in person. They have slightly different styles, so it would be worth doing a little reading, watching video clips etc. to see who you connect with.

Nice to see you here.

>I don't know how you come to that conclusion

It's the traditional position of the Tibetan schools, more or less.

>One might question whether the 'Chan' being compared is in fact a a sect familiar to Tibetans rather than the actual lineages in East Asia coming through Bodhidharma, Hui Neng, and the rest

There were a number of Chan teachers in Tibet. The famous one, Moheyan, was apparently a member of what is called the "Northern School". So, from a Chan perspective, he was of Bodhidharma's lineage, but not of Huineng's.

There's a great book you might like on Tibetan Zen, which gives us a much fuller picture of the situation. It's a little academic, but not to the point of being inaccessible to a general audience. Offline, I'm friends with a disciple of a Rinpoche who is a lineage holder in both the Kagyu tradition as well as being a qualified Chan teacher, and he (the friend) loved the book. He's strictly a practitioner, not an academic.

There is nothing else which is similar to "the ultimate" in Dzogchen except Mahamudra.

Unfortunately, it's really difficult to explain. Even the term "the ultimate" is misleading, so it was a bad choice of words on my part.

I remember when I first read about Dzogchen, I couldn't help but compare it to the Tree of Life, mostly the supernal triad and Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur, but also the whole notion of how phenomena came to be made so much sense to according to the YHVH formula and and the ray of creation, that I simply saw it in everything I read if something sounded similar. It seems to make so much sense, although in a vague and mysterious way, that it is easy to get stuck on, especially if you have used the YHVH formula to apparently manifest reality or perhaps "spoken" with the numinous in one way or another to confirm the validity of Qabalah. Once I had some experience with pathworking, it was difficult to shake the idea that Qabalah was not the absolute truth. What else could possibly manifest such perfectly verifiable experiences? But, I had trouble with the origins of the whole thing, since I am repulsed by the Bible and pretty much all forms of Judeo-Christian religions. It didn't satisfy me to think one was "exoteric" for the profane and one was "esoteric" for the enlightened, particularly because so many different schools had such different ideas about God, the gods, where the world was headed, what aeon we were in, what is "good" and "bad," etc. etc.

So, now that I've given some backstory on that, I will defer you to this link, which might make some sense to you, but frankly I doubt it... http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2009/10/dzogchen-rigpa-and-dependent.html

It is not something you can read about and understand, really. I learned that firsthand. The Western Mystery Tradition involves a lot of reading and thinking and I was just determined to try to understand Dzogchen intellectually for several years before I realized it just wasn't going to work... and then I finally started listening to all the Dzogchen teachers who had always said this. A little reading is okay, but practice is most important. And then, when you get some idea of what it's all about, reading may be more productive rather than just a complete waste of time trying to make sense of things that seem impenetrable.

I would also recommend some book for you if you're interested on a good introduction to Dzogchen:

The Crystal and the Way of Light

Dzogchen The Self-Perfected State

The Mirror

I recommend them in that order.

E: Also, this might be useful. It is 7 pages, notice the "next >" button at the bottom.
http://vajranatha.com/articles/dzogchen-and-meditation.html

I think http://www.amazon.com/Roaring-Silence-Discovering-Mind-Dzogchen/dp/1570629447 has pretty good descriptions and more information about practices that some of the other books.

My list, as of today:

1 - Dudjom Lingpa's 'Buddhahood without Meditation' (aka Enlightenment without Meditation)
https://www.amazon.com/Buddhahood-without-Meditation-Lingpas-Visions/dp/1614293465/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1503511859&sr=1-1

2 - Sera Khandro's commentary on the above. The book also includes other texts which would be very supportive in retreat.

http://www.shambhala.com/refining-our-perception-of-reality.html

3 - Perhaps the new namthar of Yeshe Tsogyal?

How about you?