(Part 2) Best products from r/Palestine

You really want a source for the claim that the state of Israel was established by a majority of European emigres for the purpose of establishing a demographic majority of European emigres? OK, see inter alia.

In a debate or a discussion, it is not in good manner to require a source for something that is not reasonably controversial. It is likewise not subject to reasonable controversy that the United States is a demographic majority of people who settled from Europe and their direct descendants.

For starters:

https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1538798550&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=the+ethnic+Cleansing+of+Palestine&dpPl=1&dpID=51nAwSlj65L&ref=plSrch

https://www.amazon.com/Idea-Israel-History-Power-Knowledge-ebook/dp/B00EGMBK4I/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1538798577&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=the+idea+of+israel

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004GXATG2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0850458005

Given the list you have you're probably aware, but this just came out - http://www.amazon.com/Palestine-Noam-Chomsky/dp/1608464709/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427817736&sr=8-1&keywords=ilan+pappe

I suggest you try to find a source that isn't pro-Zionism. That is probably the closest thing to balance you will get but that is pretty difficult. :/

My recommendation is this A Question of Palestine by Edward Said

From Appendix I: Timeline of Modern Palestine in Palestine Speaks: Narratives of Life Under Occupation:

"8000 BCE - 1000 BCE: Control of the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River (known in the ancient world as Canaan) passes through control of numerous empires, including Egypt and Babylon. Parts of the region are controlled by autonomous Canaanite city-states. Around 1200 BCE, a coastal Canaanite people known as the Philistines form a defensive alliance around the cities of Gaza, Ashdod, and Ashkelon near the Mediterranean coast. Egyptians describe the land of the Philistines as "Peleset". Later, Greek writers refer to the entire area between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan Riber as "Palestine" or "land of the Philistines."

1000 BCE-850 BCE: The Kingdoms of Israel and Judea emerge from confederations of autonomous tribes of people known as the Israelites. The Kingdom of Israel has its capital in Samaria (near modern Nablus) and the Kingdom of Judea makes Jerusalem its capital.

722 BCE-1 BCE: Part or all of the land now known as Palestine is rules by the Assyrians, the Babylonians, numerous Hellenistic dynasties, and the Romans, among others. Semi-autonomous city-states also flourish during this time, including those of Israelite and other Canaanite peoples.

324-634: Roman Emperor Constantine moves his capital from Rome to Byzantine (renamed Constantinople, today called Istanbul). He establishes Christianity as the religion of the new Byzantine Empire, which includes all of Palestine. Palestine passes through Byzantine rule to Persian rule, then back to Byzantine rule. During this time period, much of the population of the region is Christian.

610-632: The religion of Islam is established in the Arabian Peninsula under the leadership of Prophet Muhammad. By the time of his death in 632, Prophet Muhammad has established Islam as the accepted belief of many Arabic-speaking peoples in the region.

634: Two years after the death of Prophet Muhammad, Islamic Arabs defeat the armies of the Byzantine and Persian empires and take control of Palestine. In subsequent years, Arabic-speaking peoples move into Syria, west into Egypt and Africa, and east into Mesopotamia.

634-1516: During the Middle Ages, Palestine is ruled by a number of dynasties and Sultantes. Power struggles open the way for Crusaders, or Christian armies from Europe, to invade parts of Palestine. In 1187, a Muslim leader from Kurdistan named Salah Ad-Din conquers the first Crusader kingdom in Jerusalem. During the next century, Palestine is controlled by numerous rulers-including Crusaders-until an Egyptian military aristocracy known as the Mamluks takes control in 1250. Two centuries of relative peace follow. In 1453, Constantinople falls to the Ottomans, a Turkic people from Central Asia. After renaming the city Istanbul, the Ottoman Empire begins expanding. By 1516, the Ottomans have conquered Palestine, Syria, Egypt, and Western Arabia.

1516-1918: Palestine is ruled by the Ottomans for over four hundred years.

1800: By this year, there are as many as 250,000 people living in Palestine. Though the majority of the population is Muslim, there may be as many as 7,000 Jews living in the region and 20,000 Christians."

And from there we know the rest so I'll stop typing...
The article makes it seem like the idea of Palestine is such a modern thing, but this books stands by the claim that Palestinians have lived in this geographic area known as Palestine for centuries, just under various rulers and empires.

>The deeply flawed and biased Wikipedia article on Shlomo Sand's book "The invention of the Jewish People" (best-seller in Hebrew, widely translated) lists the historians and what they think about the Khazar Theory.
The reputable historians all seem to accept Khazar Hypothesis (unless they say something very different behind Sand's back?!?). Only crackpot historians (I think it's fair to call them that!) dispute it and still cling to the Rhineland Hypothesis. (ie a handful of German Jews come from Rome round about CE 1000 and populate Eastern Europe).

You gave one source. The source has been debunked several times.

>You're going to tell me what books you have on your desk.

The Jews of Khazaria, The Thirteenth Tribe: The Khazar Empire and it's heritage.

These are not religious. One book declines the Khazar theory, one accepts it. The mere fact that there are 2 books on each side mean it is not a widely accepted theory but debated.

> But hey, it's alright to demonize them and classify them as subhuman.

Where am I doing this? I didn't even name him as Palestinian in the original post, I said "someone."

>Speaking of which, your fya facts about Gush Etzion , are excellent, what was the source for this the old testament?

No, Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gush_Etzion

The sources they use are:

Larry Collins, Dominique Lapierre, O Jerusalem,(1972) Granada Books 1982 p.217

Gorenberg (2007), p. 19

Since that second source is a bit scant, I went ahead and looked up the book on Amazon for you:

http://www.amazon.com/Accidental-Empire-Israel-Settlements-1967-1977/dp/0805082417/ref=la_B001IQZN8Y_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1419355558&sr=1-2

Maybe you should try arguing the point instead of calling me a moron when you're wrong.

> Ofc it was less than a state, Palestinians are unable to develop a state.

Actually, the British occupation brutally suppressed all efforts by the Palestinians to develop the pre-state structures, as documented in https://www.amazon.com/Palestine-J-M-Jeffries-author/dp/1911072129

But please... tell us more about how you think Palestinians are unique among humans in their incapacity to run a state.

There is a book, called the CIA's Secret War in Jamaica which goes into these guys. http://www.amazon.com/Inside-CIAs-Secret-War-Jamaica/dp/1944082077

There's articles about Veciana: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Cuban-Exile-Militant-Claim-by-Andrew-Kreig-Central-Intelligence-Agency_JFK-Assassination_Oswald-141001-587.html

But in the end, I think the fact that he's not profiting from this by selling a book gives more weight to his testimony. Most former CIA guys who make claims like that go on to write books, putting doubt into their motives.

Because it should be ONE state since these are virtual simaese twins that are intertwined and to seperate one from the ohter would kill them both....Read 'One Country' by Ali Abunimah





http://www.amazon.com/One-Country-Proposal-Israeli-Palestinian-Impasse/dp/0805086668

Ask your Arab friends if they think everything is hunky dory in Israel. Tell me how moving the US embassy goes on the first day of Ramadan. Stability is a luxury enjoyed by only some.

When Arabs are given the right to return - an unavoidable reality under international pressure - do you think Israeli Jews are just going to leave their racism at home? Racism will be the demise of the nation state:



> Empires were not democratic, but were built to be inclusive of all those who came under their rule. It is not the same with nations, which are founded on the fundamental distinction between who is in and who is out – and therefore harbour a tendency toward ethnic purification. This makes them much more unstable than empires, for that tendency can always be stoked by nativist demagogues

...and technology is its harbinger

>That you could have read all the books you often quote without discerning that faith-hatred played a role in Nazis' targeting of the Jews suggests you may be brain damaged.

Maybe you should demonstrate and post what you're talking about. There are passages from Goebbels and Julius Streicher which suit your case. Unfortunately, you seem to have precious little else.

> It's also belied by your constant references to the Nazis' faith-hatred in your comparisons to Zionism and Israel. You seem entirely unaware of your other comments, or you're lying.

Its very obvious that the Zionists are much, much more discriminatory.

>But assuming you're not lying, and only brain damaged, get back to me when you've read:

Yeah, when in a hole get someone else to do the digging.

Make sure you personally abuse them first!

>Mein Kampf (which you admit to never having looked into)

The very first book on your reading list doesn't appear to prove your case ... transcribed by Emile Maurice - later "Aryanised" like many others. Its partly? largely? copied from Henry Ford's 1924 "The International Jew". ("parts of Ford's text were used nearly verbatim in 'Mein Kampf'" http://www.aish.com/ho/i/48956701.html "extensively" http://greyfalcon.us/Charles%20Lindbergh.htm )

> Die deutsche Diktatur (The German Dictatorship), by Karl Dietrich Bracher, who argues that genocide of European Jewry was entirely a function of Adolf Hitler’s anti-Semitic hatred.

I think you're talking bollocks - neither http://www.amazon.com/The-German-dictatorship-structure-socialism/dp/B0006C06H4 nor http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-German-Dictatorship-Structure-Consequences/dp/0140137246 say anything of the kind.

>Antisemitism provided a common denominator, necessary in a movement which was so obviously a loose coalition of interests as the Nazi Party, and which after 1933 was devoid of any real active political role apart from indoctrination and social control. - Ian Kershaw

I'd have thought modern day Israel was a much more extreme example of vicious faith-hatred. No Germans are ever recorded saying "Kill the Jews" - even after the terrorism they were only calling 'Juden raus! Auf nach Palästina!'