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>I saw the universe as an eternally shifting, infinite being, almost like a fractal. I realized that I didn't exist because my parents had sex. I existed because this was the shape of the universe and I was part of that shape. I existed because the universe created me. It decided. I existed because I was a naturally-occurring feature of that ever-changing being. It was like the universe had expressed its love for me, not in an embrace but in a deep knowing that I was inseparable from it. I think I stood there frozen for several minutes just feeling such incredible love that tears welled up. I wasn't a man loved by his family, or a devotee loved by his god; it was like I was a freckle on the skin of a goddess accepted and loved as deeply as a goddess could love herself. Maybe I'm not describing it well enough. It was like an embrace but not. In that long moment, the universe loved me unconditionally because it loved itself and I was it.

Lovely post. Especially this.


>how do people who openly speak about their experiences do so without that fear Is it best to just keep my mouth shut until my practice is more solid so I'm not coming off like a loudmouth amateur? :)

If that is where you are coming from, then perhaps so.

But there are an infinite number of ways to talk about Truth, to be a voice for Truth, to be an instrument of Truth. It can be as simple as a word of encouragement at a pivotal moment; it can be a reflection on the transitory nature of things, or a gentle reminder of a lesson learned; it can be a smile and sturdy faith in the face of difficulty. Don't try and fit Truth into a box: implicit in your post is the belief that unless you are waxing philosophic, using complex and occult ideas, you are not expounding great Truth. This is false. The Truth is neither big nor small, simple nor complex: and yet it is all these. Worship and be grateful for the simple ways that you can spread Truth; perhaps then you will not be so afraid of losing your Presence when the chance to really expound occurs.

The best, most basic advice I have ever read on the topic comes from The Bhagavad Gita

>You must not tell this sacred truth to anyone who is not devoted, nor to anyone who speaks ill of Me, nor to anyone who does not care to listen. No one should try to impose this holy information on another.

>But those who love Me and teach these profound secrets to people who are ready to listen will definitely come to Me. No one renders a higher service to Me than this, and no one on Earth is dearer to Me.

I would have been far more skeptical until something very similar happened to myself. For example this is sorta what I innitially went through, as it was an interesting emanation, it was being translated to words but the intent was deeper more subtle yet LOUD because I just had an what some call an awakening, it also reminded me how stuff communicates when I had DMT breakthroughs before:

"who is this?"

"the real you"

"what?"

"you can call me your higher if you like"

"oh, how do I know I am not just talking to myself?"

"You are talking to yourself silly!"

"what?"

"I am the non resistant part of us, the one that manifests, the dream-bus driver, the dream, the bus, the road and the passengers"

"umm..."

"you can call me Source too, or your Soul"

"what? your God?"

"yes, by that I mean YOU are"

"you mean you?”

"I am you"

"I have lost my mind"

"you mean you found it"

"how do I know you really me and not some random thoughts?"

Then my body just stats moving, like the "ego/ my human personality , was tossed in the back seat" (as the the body starts moving on its own and writes)
“Thoughtless thought that flows freely and abundantly without any resistance".

“omg wtf is going on, I am possessed, lol or nutz!!!!"

"possessed by the Spirit, your spirit"

"OMG!"

"yes that's what I am saying, oh Me GOD!"

“I must be dreaming”

“Indeed we are, we are the dream”.

“but how do I know?”

“you don't have to, we are so amazing we don't even know ourselves”...

My conversations got deeply more personal through the months it taught me much about the spirit of Play, with a supreme helping of WOO with a side of WOO. =)

When I saw the conversations with God if anything it re-affirmed that we ALL can do this, for we are IT.
It seems like this inner wisdom hits many of us in different ways, like the inner child, the guidance, the higher self, holy-spirit, soul, source, God, our light body, awareness behind the dream, collective unconscious ... names get funny don't they? What was so surprising was its always there in all of us, for it is all of us.

That form of communication seems much more quiet now days, I wonder if it only pipes in like that for learning, teaching although its always there with intuition and our inner guidance it seems.

Have any of you had your own conversations with GOD? (which I now often refer to as myLIFE, or mySELF). What kinds of things have you learned about yourself and your journey?

Edit: Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self, this is an amazing book on Lucid Dreams I found last year, whats interesting is Robert Waggoner the author finds what he calls the Awareness Behind the Dream and starts comunicating with it in the dreams and some in meditation and daily life. Its a fascinating book.

> All of these weird things started at the same time, so I’m wondering if any of it can be accounted for by the awakening process.

Always see a doctor if you're concerned, but yes. Everything you're saying sounds very familiar to my own experience.

My own theory about it is that egoic mind takes up a lot of energy (or attention), so when that energy is freed up, it goes elsewhere. The body becomes more sensitive and open.

> I’m not tired when I wake up, but it’s still somehow unsatisfying.

I know exactly what you mean here, and can empathize. For me, a lot of that unsatisfactoriness was my mind not accepting the 'weirdness' of the situation. "I'm only getting 3 hours of sleep per night! This can't be healthy!" Etc.

Physically I felt fine, and the doctor confirmed I was very healthy. Eventually (after hearing Adyashanti talk about something similar) I quit mentally arguing with the reality of the situation, and accepted that even though things were a bit weird, they were find. Mind is used to our bodies being a certain way, and when that changes it takes a bit for mind to get onboard, in other words.

I can only speak to my own experience, but for me at one point it all just settled. I was getting ~3 hours of a sleep per night (and like you beautiful phrased, it felt more like a 'trance of being-ness'), weird physical sensations (including profuse sweating at night) and a whole lot of other stuff, then one day there was another 'shift' (not dissimilar to the awakening itself), and it was like a switch was turned off and a bunch of the 'weird' stuff disappeared (though others showed up, heh).

The yoga and healthiness are your friends. If your diet is really light, it may be helpful to introduce heavier, 'grounding' foods like beets, sweet potatoes, etc, but listen to your body here. Bodies are mysteriously wise, and know what they need - it's more a question of how much we can get out of the way.

All of that to say: you're not alone and what you're describing could certainly be related to the awakening.

If you haven't already, I'd strongly recommend reading Adyashanti's book The End of Your World. There's a lot of helpful info inside.

As I've come to understand it, our egos exists as a natural self-evaluative aspect of thinking/assessing in a complicated and hierarchical group dynamic, which, evolutionarily-speaking, is from where and how our biological machinery has formed.

But, thinking does NOT have to be part of that self-evaluative "ego"-pattern thing. There's no reason that you can't have a ton of active thought and emotion, and yet be completely anchored in deepest awareness. They are NOT mutually exclusive. Perhaps, hitherto, in "normal" real life, they have effectively been mutually exclusive for you or others (I know it was for me prior to having bypassed certain milestones on the spiritual path), but that does not need to be the case.

The whole "do-gooder" and "one-upsmanship" aspect that you're talking about presumes/reflects a perceptual slant in which a person is still stuck in the patterns of ego to some extent.
The desire to "do-good", or the desire to point out that someone is at a different place (which can incorrectly be perceived as pejorative/controlling), can actually flow from deepest awareness and true kindness.
I recognize that "one-upsmanship" and "do-gooding", and wariness of those things, could also come from thoughts/desires/patterns to dominate or control, or fear of being controlled. But, that does NOT mean that it isn't possible to be operating from a place beyond that.
There's probably not much point to going on about it more here, because the hard reality is that we likely ARE at different places to some extent.
I am willing to spend every bit of energy I can muster to help that NOT be the case.
I have walked a path through, and I'm trying to share NECESSARY, meaning completely essential, aspects of understanding that I've come upon along the way, which, frankly, others might not have the opportunity to discover.

That is why I've written the following stuff:
https://www.reddit.com/r/enlightenment/comments/48annh/essential_understanding_to_facilitate/

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LZ2QKYM

https://sites.google.com/a/oneillpaul.com/www/home

I know what's happening in my own space. Whether or not you can conceive of or believe it, I can say with certainty that I, Paul, am not trying to "one-up" you or anyone. I also realize that if I am actually at a different functional point of operation, then it might be helpful to see, understand, discuss, and share.

It is a MASSIVE UNDERTAKING to sufficiently strengthen awareness and sufficiently understand and dissolve the deepest patterns, so that they no longer "rule the roost", but it IS possible.
It is NOT easy - at least not the way that I've gone about it. But, as any good helper or mapmaker hopes, I hope that I could help others navigate the waters.

I sincerely appreciate the dialogue, but I also feel that I'm possibly nearing the limits of my capacity to communicate via written language here. If you'd like to discuss further - and I would care to -I'd personally prefer and suggest that we talk live via a phone/video conversation, or even in person, if that were reasonably feasible.

[Adyashanti - Way of Liberation] (http://www.adyashanti.org/library/The_Way_of_Liberation_Ebook.pdf)- Already mentioned, but worth a double mention

[John Wheeler - Awakening To The Natural State] (http://www.1ness.info/John%20Wheeler%20-%20Awakening%20to%20the%20Natural%20State.pdf) - Realized the truth while reading this book

[John Wheeler - You Were Never Born] (http://www.1ness.info/John%20Wheeler%20-%20you%20Were%20Never%20Born.pdf) - A later book of his, similar pointers, but more mature

[Eckhart Tolle - The Power of Now] (http://www.theschuberts.info/The%20Power%20of%20Now%20-%20A%20Guide%20to%20Spiritual%20Enlightment%20by%20Eckhart%20Tolle.pdf) - I didn't personally like it or finish it but /u/veragood mentioned and he's someone worth listening to. Then again, I read it at the beginning of my journey when I was still had a very critical/atheistic mindset and got turned off by the references to energy, etc. I just revisited a book by [Michael Singer called 'The Untethered Soul'] (http://www.amazon.ca/Untethered-Soul-Journey-Beyond-Yourself/dp/1572245379/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454159880&sr=8-1&keywords=untethered+soul) a few days ago after not enjoying it about the same time as I read Eckhart Tolle's book back in the summer of 2014, and, well, I found 'The Untethered Soul' to be a beautiful introduction to awakening. I told a friend about it who's reading it now and we're going to discuss it over coffee next week. So I guess there's another one for your list. Actually, I'd either start with the Singer one or Adyashanti one first, but different books resonate differently with us, so keep looking until you find a style that speaks to you :)

[Nisargadatta Maharaj - I am That] (http://www.theschuberts.info/Nisargadatta%20Maharaj%20-%20ebook%20-%20I%20AM%20THAT%20-%20MUST%20READ%20-%20searchable%20PDF.pdf) - The most enjoyable book I've found on spirituality.

Of course, if you want to learn about it outside of books, we are happy here at /r/awakened to answer any specific questions you have.

All the best on your journey!

You might want to study up on religious history. I grew up a Christian too, but in learning about old religions that predate Christianity, it widened my perspective.

Honestly my original dive into the occult had followed a deep fascination of quantum physics. In looking up these things online I kept stumbling on occult websites. I found it quite interesting that my interest in a field of science brought me to the occult. Science and religion have been blending and overlapping lately I’ve noticed. Quite different from when I was younger and everything seemed more black and white.

Growing up I had always heard things about how many Christian practices and views were just adopted from paganism but changed to fit their view. Well that’s not wrong but of course it’s much more complicated.

I have this book, The Secret Teachings of ALL AGES by Manly P. Hall and it dives into a lot about religions including the occult, Christianity, Judaism, etc. It’s a good soft way of learn about such a subject without compromising your beliefs. But like everything, beliefs are not set in stone. But you should only start where you feel more comfortable.

The Secret Teachings of All Ages - Amazon link

> I'm talking about why the awareness that I experience is experiencing sensory inputs from the point of view of this body-abstraction instead of any other body-abstraction in existence.

Ohhh. That's a very big question. Years ago I went out to explore this, so I ended up writing a program that analyzes visual information. I ended up throwing the stock market at it.

From this I have an idea how the underlining processes work, but they're only a guess -- the way I re-engineered them onto a computer, but from modeling my own awareness machine. If you want the finer underlining details, I can explain, but I think it is a bit of a rabbit hole for what you're probably looking for.

Then from there, at a higher level falls into the abstraction bit. So like, if you see a pattern a bunch of times (a bunch of similar patterns) the mind will "compress" this pattern into a single concept and from that concept into a single word, or a set of words. This makes all the things we know of in the universe.

Of course, I'm using language to describe language here, and that gets a little twisty (loopy particularly), but one thing at a time. No need to get overloaded.

You might like the book GEB or it's easier cousin I Am A Strange Loop.

>If multiple points of experience exist, then you have not answered what separates them. You have instead linked to something incoherent about abstractions, which is all anyone ever does when asked this question.

You can get into perceptions. The book Prometheus Rising does a great job diving into that and is a fun read too.

But are you talking about perceptions, which is interpretations of patterns, or multiple instances of awareness? Like how one eye is different from the other?

A simpler answer, which might be what you're looking for, is the mind machine has a process that identifies difference. This has to have memory to do so, most likely in time, but theoretically it only needs a single frame of space to do so.

I'll tell you what did it for me, and that was reading (and actively participating with) a book called Liberation Is by Salvadore Poe. The whole book is a process of self-inquiry to see clearly what is already always true right now. In an interview on BATGAP, he said that the point of the book is to end the search. And it did for me, as crazy as that sounds.

In fact, if you've been into this stuff for any length of time, you already know the answer. In my experience, it's like I saw the answer and said "yeah, but... what else?" The inquiry in Poe's book points you directly at it, again and again, so you get it. This is it.

Why recommend the book instead of explaining here? Because I wouldn't do it justice. The inquiry that the book leads you through is far better than I ever could. He's had years to work on his method with feedback from live students, and it's really excellent.

And if you or anyone else gets a feeling of "aww, shucks... I kind of like the search" (I did!), I can assure you that ending the search does not mean what your mind thinks it means. It ends the neediness and not-yet-here-ness of spirituality. It ends the tension, the torment, and the layering on top. It ends the search for something to complete yourself. You are already complete!

Then you're no longer fooled into thinking that something else is it. You can play with concepts and let them go. You may find that some of your 'spiritual' interests change, or take a different shape, or drop entirely, and it will feel perfectly natural.

Each chakra has a color associated with it. Might research that. Your experiences seem very visual. Have you noticed a buzzing sensation on that spot? Have you tried focusing on multiple chakras at once?

What does your normal practice look like?

Back when I meditated reguraly and could feel my chakras I had spent time developing the crown, anja, throat, and heart chakra. I would often use the anja as a prime anchor into the jhanas but would occasionally practice concetration on all chakras at once. One time, one of the last times i really meditated, on a whim i decided to light up my usual chakras and then i did the micro cosmic orbit for about 30 minutes. Towards the end I felt my 8th chakra about 4 inches above the top of my head. Really weird, really cool, one of my favorite experiences ever.

Point is, you can go deeper - that is to say BUILD CONCENTRATION and use that chakra to silence the mind as much as possible and reach for the concentration absorption states, or you can go wider - develop the other chakras and try to simultaneously keep them active.


Also I want to say if your at the point where you are seeing these phenom your practice has developed enough that you should seek help from a quality tome.

The Mind Illimunated

Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha

Both are world class texts, go with whatever feels more intuitive. I recommend these because meditation is something you can spend a lifetime doing and without focus you are just wasting your time.

Please read this book, it will help you a lot: https://www.amazon.com/End-Your-World-Uncensored-Enlightenment/dp/1591797799. It's basically written for you - you will relate, just like I did.

What I learned from it is what you're experiencing is normal - he says most people lose it before they gain it for good. And even then it's somewhat possible to lose it haha. What he says is it's all part of the process, it's important not to fight it, not to resist it, because the more you fight something the more you get of it.

I don't feel I'm gonna lose it, but I could be wrong and I don't much care either way. I was already pretty happy before it happened through openness and honesty. I had 1.5 years of the worst depression in my life before I learned to be happy. I'm not in a position to give advice (I feel like a newborn), but if I was forced to, I'd say: don't sweat over it, "sweating" is what ego does best, don't give it that power.

As for me, I meditate every day for 20-30 minutes because I find it enjoyable and I like the process of quieting my mind. I am also going to Vipassana in about a month. Mostly I plan to just chill and unfold with the flow. I distinctly feel that the fear of losing it is counter-productive. It's all ego talking.

Here's a book I wish I'd have found when I had my first experience like yours...

​

Enjoy the journey my friend.

I've been reading Buddha's Brain( https://www.amazon.com/Buddhas-Brain-Practical-Neuroscience-Happiness-ebook/dp/B003TU29WU/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=buddha%27s+brain&qid=1563809401&s=gateway&sr=8-1 )

It's great background for appreciating the relationship between the mind and the brain. They use Buddhist concepts to show how to influence and change the brain's structure. The difference between the observing self and the thinking self became more clear to me with this understanding.

Given your interest in the topic I think you'd really enjoy this book. He talks about this sort of thing way better than I do.

I recommend Gary Weber. He has a more technical approach to nonduality.

Website: http://happiness-beyond-thought.com/

He has a book called Happiness Beyond Thought.

Online: https://www.scribd.com/doc/113131786/Happiness-Beyond-Thought-A-Practical-Guide-to-Awakening

Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Beyond-Thought-Practical-Awakening/dp/0595418562

You can also find him on YouYube

Gary Weber's first book http://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Beyond-Thought-Practical-Awakening/dp/0595418562

He offers it free: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B10VEQU6tq12ZWFJdm9ORXRIdmM/edit

His youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/gudakesha7/videos

Sweet!

Similar to the "feeding your demons" Tibetan practice: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015DWJBO/ref=dp-kindle-redirect

You might be interested in reading Adyashanti's The End of Your World. He addresses this pretty directly