Best products from r/chefknives

Originally I wrote this as a reply to another comment, but it got nabbed by the automod for accidentally having one affiliate link, and it's not a reply to that comment really, it's a reply to OPs question, so I deleted it as a reply and am posting it top-level here:

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There are several choices now for (i) Japanese (ii) fully stainless (iii) gyutos/chef knives of (iv) either 210 or 240mm in length and (v) $80 or less, thankfully:

1 Narihira 8000 (210mm) or 240mm

2 Mac Chef Series (8.5")

3 Misono Molybdenum (210mm)

4 Fujiwara FKM (210mm) or 240mm

5 Tojiro DP (210mm)

6 Yahiko VG-10 Western (210mm)

7 Yaxell Mon (8"/210mm)

8 Shun Sora (8")

So, #s 1, 2, 3, and 4 are all made of "Molybdenum steel" or "Molybdenum / Vanadium ("MV") steel". This is typically harder than European knives but softer than VG-10, right around 58-59 HRC. #s 5, 6, 7, and 8 are made with VG-10 steel, typically around 60-61 HRC. The Molybdenum knives will be easier to sharpen because the steel is softer, but they won't retain that sharp edge as long as VG-10. VG-10 is more difficult to sharpen, but at least in my experience it's still not that difficult. VG-10 is also more prone to micro-shipping along the very edge, because it is harder and more brittle, but with good boards and technique I don't think that's a problem and even if it happens you can take the micro-chips out with sharpening. Personally I tend to value lasting sharpness over ease of re-sharpening, so if everything else is equal I would prefer VG-10 for my main chef knife.

(1) I don't know a lot about Narihiras. Hocho Knife sells them and confirms they are made in Japan (one Amazon listing said China, though the others said Japan as well) and they appear to arrive in the same style of clear plastic packaging other definitely Japanese knives come in from my local Asian ethnic markets, so. They are notably cheaper -- 210 gyutos for $44. They might be a great value and allow you to get a matching petty for your $80, or they might be awful. At least Amazon has easy returns.

(2) The Mac Chef series is known for the cheaper non-bolster handles and for the blade being especially thin, to the point of having more flex than a lot of people desire. I had one and found it just a little too flexy for me. Also the stainless MV steel in that line will pick up just a tiny bit of slight discoloration with certain foods, I learned. Not super popular because of how thin they are, but if you want super thin, the way to go.

(3) The Misono Molybdenum series are Misono's cheapest line (Misono makes the king of western-style stainless gyutos for pro chef use, the UX10, about $200), but the fit and finish and grinds are still excellent.

(4) Fujiwara FKMs are really well-liked. Very similar in pretty much all external dimensions to the Misono. The FKM handles might be just a tad (1-4mm?) narrower. Sometimes in the past these were reported to have a knife here or there with less than perfect fit and finish, but that appears rare.

Among the MV steel knives, if price is factor #1 I'd start by trying some Narihiras from Amazon given the ease of returns. If you want a knife as thin and light as possible, the Mac. If you want a tried and true maker in a traditional style, if 210 is long enough I'd lean toward the Misono. If you'd rather have 240mm, the Fujiwara.

(5) Tojiros are the classic VG-10 starter knife. They're just very good all-around. Some people find the handles a tad wide, but... it's hard to know what to make of that not having your hands and not being able to hold one. It's not *way* wide, it's still in the normal handle range I find.

(6) The Yahiko is a CKTG exclusive line and the site owner strongly suggests that they're rebranded Tojiro DPs but that stay at $59.99 at his website. There's a whole load of internet drama over that vendor and while I don't like censoring reviews I also have only had very positive experiences buying form there so I think it's all stupid internet drama and I don't care. Seems to be a very solid knife "identical in every way" to a DP.

(7) Personally, if I had to give a gift of an $80 gyuto to someone, or if a single $80 gyuto was going to be my lone knife pride-and-joy for a while, I would buy a Yaxell Mon. The design is less traditional but more special looking, and I have another Yaxell VG-10 gyuto, and all the other knives I've had that were as sharp out-of-the-box as the Yaxell were $200+. Fit and Finish was second only to the Misono MVs, which had a slightly more rounded spine for me. The handle is also a different shape in that it is a bit thinner but taller, and it is a material that is a bit more grippy than the others.

(8) Some people will balk at recommending something as corporate as a Shun, but it merits mention. I had one for a while. It was truly very sharp. It also has a different profile than anything else here, and different from anything else in Shun's catalog -- there is a bigger flat section before transitioning up to a very short and agile tip. I actually really liked this profile in use. The VG-10 is braze welded onto the edge rather than being a thin layer all through the in the middle as it is on the other knives. Theoretically maybe that means after enough use and sharpening that might be an issue, but honestly I think that would take 100 years of use. The big downside is the handle. The handle is grippy but irritatingly cheap feeling. It feels like hollow plastic. But it does work as a handle. And Shun will re-sharpen your knives for free for life if you send them out to Shun by mail, so that might be a plus.

Among the VG-10 knives, if I wanted the classic handle look, I'd buy a Tojiro or Yahiko (probably a Yahiko and save a few dollars). If I wanted to be impressed when I open the box and feel like I had a unique real Japanese knife or I wanted the ultimate in (initial) sharpness, I would get the Yaxell. If I really wanted a big really flat flat spot (for an 8" gyuto), I would get the Shun. That profile is unique...

Hey, sorry to hear about your house getting broken into. That's a really tough deal and I wish you the best in bouncing back.


On rebuilding your roll, I have a few suggestions. I know I'm in the minority here, but I think carbon steel is less essential to have in a knife roll than stainless. Carbon steel knives are sharp as hell so you don't need to sharpen them as frequently, but even though I sharpen my knives every two days or so, it doesn't actually make a big difference to me if I only have to sharpen every third/fourth day... but again, that's just how I feel. Carbon steel knives also sometimes leave residue on food, so it's essential to have a stainless for some projects anyways. For rebuilding a budget roll, it's important to first have a few (3-4) beater knives for service. This is because you want to have knives that you can use for things like food allergies without having to drop everything to wash off a knife, which can put you in the weeds if you get a lot of allergy/aversion tickets coming in at once. I keep a set of these in my bag as well as a Mercer beater knife, although I like Fibrox as well. My main prep knife is a Tojiro 210 DP Gyutou. It's great for doing fine veg prep like brunoise and I even use it to portion raw fish (but I would definitely get a deboning knife if you're going to be breaking down fish). I definitely understand having one or two knives that you can be proud to keep in your roll, but at the end of the day, it's probably better to prioritize having the cheap essentials in your bag first.

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If you've read this and your mind is still set on getting one of the gyutous you posted, I would recommend getting something with a little bit of a curve to it. Japanese steel tends to have a straight edge and some hybrids will be straighter than others. This is useful for motions where you're sliding the tip around the board, but having a curve is important for things like cutting chives where you want some rock to it (like the kanetsune you posted).

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As far as sharpening goes, having a gyutou and a fibrox will teach you the difference in how you want to move the blade across the stone for different blade shapes, which I think is a pretty essential sharpening skill to have. I personally own two double sided stones, but since I sharpen my knives with some frequency, I only ever use the 3000/8000 grit.

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Make sure you consider all the other things you need in your roll! Get a steel, a few peelers, like 6-8 spoons, tweezers, cake testers, maybe even a mandolin.... it can add up, but all these are essential to have before you buy that awesome aogami. I'm pretty confident you can have an awesome and versatile knife roll and stay under your budget so that you can focus on rebuilding and replacing all the other things that were taken. Best of luck to you!

You're new to the industry, and new to cooking. Quite frankly, your skills are at the point where you won't really have a huge preference one way or the other, and you won't perform any differently with a 50 dollars knife versus a 5000 dollar knife. Similarly, fancy whetstones, glass stones, sharpening systems, etc won't make a difference either.

Right now, get the basics. Good solid stuff that's relatively cheap so that you can figure out what you like, and don't like. You have 1300-1500 to spend-- Good. Save it for now. Industry doesn't pay much. Here's the basics to start you out that has the best bang for buck, and gives you some different styles and feels to try out, so that you can figure out what you'll eventually enjoy the most. If you want more information on any of the knives, let me know.

https://www.amazon.com/Tojiro-DP-Gyutou-8-2-21cm/dp/B000UAPQGS

This is a knife that's full tang, VG-10 steel(same as Shun), and has decent heat treat. Western style handle, with a westernized santoku Japanese style blade. At 60 bucks, it's a steal.

https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Fibrox-45520-Frustration-Packaging/dp/B008M5U1C2

Ubiquitous western style knife. Steel is the same as the more expensive Wustofs, Mercers, and anything that claims to use "German Stainless Steel". It's all x50crmov15, with slightly different heat treats. Victorinox does it right.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohawagy21.html

HAP40 high speed tool steel. This is the high tech stuff used in blade competitions. Japanese style handle, maintains a really sharp edge for a really long time. A little more expensive, but that kind of steel for that price is really, really worth it.

https://www.amazon.com/Winco-Chinese-Cleaver-Wooden-Handle/dp/B001CDVXUK/ref=sr_1_7?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1485154695&sr=1-7&keywords=cleaver

Look, a cleaver's a cleaver. You don't need fancy steels or anything-- You just need a whole lotta force behind a whole lotta steel. Hone and sharpen often, and this'll do great for you.

Speaking of cleavers, though...

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckcleaver2.html

Chinese cleavers are awesome. They're not actually cleavers though, don't use them on bones and the like-- They're the Chinese version of the all purpose chef knife or gyuto knife. Chinese chefs are expected to be able to do everything with this knife, from fileting to tourne to peeling to chopping to brunoise, so they're actually quite versatile. Speaking of which-- This also fills in for the Japanese Nakiri role. Tons of fun to use.

https://www.amazon.com/King-Sided-Sharpening-Stone-Base/dp/B001DT1X9O/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1485154779&sr=1-1&keywords=king+1000+6000

This is a fantastic stone, one that Master Bladesmith Murray Carter uses. I ran a knife sharpening service, and this is the one I used for most knives as well. Since you won't have to deal with weird recurves and tantos and nightmare grinds and the like that can show up on folding knives, this will serve you very well.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004WFU8/ref=twister_B010SQ9IXK?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

This is in case you get some gnarly chips on any knives. This'll get it out quick and easy. Bonus-- Use it to flatten and maintain your King stone. This and the King stone is all you really need for sharpening. You can easily get a shaving edge with it.

Besides those, stick with what you got in the Mercer kit for the specialty knives. You really don't need fancy versions of those. You also really don't need a serrated utility knife at all. In the professional kitchen, the three knives that saw the most work were the overall chef knife(even for fileting and some light butchering), the 4 dollar Victorinox paring knife(quick and easy to sharpen), and the Mercer tourne knife.

Buying all this will amount to 431.31, giving you a combination sharpening stone, a flattening/reprofiling stone, and 5 fun knives of all different kinds to play with, at a fraction of the cost. You'll notice I didn't put any Super Blue or White #1 steels in there-- That's because A) They're more difficult to take care of, and B) They're really overpriced for what they are, simply because their "japanese" moniker makes people think they're super laser swords from a land of secret steels(they're not). The HAP40 steel beats these steels in pretty much every category.

Hope you found it helpful! Have fun with whatever you decide to choose.

I know you said you wanted a Japanese handle but I think you should consider a Misono Molybdenum. It was my first knife and I’m honestly still happy with it.
Its inexpensive, tough, takes a pretty good edge, and has good fit and finish. It won’t take as keen of an edge as the knives you mentioned.. but its easy to sharpen which is great if you’re learning how to.

I own a Ginga too and its pretty amazing but I wouldn’t want it as my sole knife. It’s a really thin blade so its a bit more fragile than the Misono. I personally would rather have a tougher knife if I only had one.

I also really like the Hi-soft cutting board. It’s easy on knives, has some weight and theres very little maintenance. Just don’t put it in the dishwasher.

Misono Molybdenum 240mm ~ $112.50

(Korin is having a 15% off sale on knives right now)
http://korin.com/HMI-MOGY-240?sc=27&category=280076

Hi-Soft Cutting Board ~ $48.00

(From Korin. Combine the shipping with the Misono)
http://korin.com/HiSoft-Cutting-Board_3?sc=28&category=286082

Bester 1200 ~ $55

(Leaves a good edge alone)

OR

Shapton Pro 1000 ~ $35

(I like the Bester better but this is a really good deal on Amazon Prime)
https://www.amazon.com/Kuromaku-Ceramic-Whetstone-Medium-Grit/dp/B001TPFT0G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500081962&sr=8-1&keywords=shapton+pro+1000

Suehiro Rika 5000 ~ $50

(Optional.. nice to have tho)

Atoma 400 ~$60

(For stone flattening. You can buy a cheaper plate if you want)
https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Diamond-Sharpener-Medium-400/dp/B0031KNR2O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500081982&sr=8-1&keywords=atoma+400
I know the link says generic.. but this is an Atoma 400. Just make sure you buy the one that is Amazon Prime

I wouldn’t spend all $500 at once. You can always buy a nicer knife later.. and having two knives is convenient anyway.

Which is better really comes down to what you prefer and what you will be using a knife for. Classic European cooking, for example, really benefits from being able to rock chop as Jacques Pépin does in this video. Of course you don't have to do any of that to process garlic but rather its just one set of techniques and styles. In this realm, Wusthof and knives like it do very well. There's also Messermeister, Zwilling, and more. The caveat is while they all offer good quality knives, they also offer some very poor quality ones. Make sure you do the research and go for top tier products if you're going to get one.

On the other end of the spectrum we have French and Japanese style knives like a Sabatier and a gyuto which can rock chop but you're not going to be able to come close to what Jacques did to that garlic. Of course there are santokus which you mention. These don't rock chop at all but are great for slicing, dicing, and mincing. I find a classic Wusthof nothing but a pain to mince with. Even santokus come in different styles. On one hand you have this Tojiro DP santoku with a big of a curve compared to this Kohetsu which has very little.

Somewhere in the middle we get things like this Victoronix 8" which is one the best values available. The profile is not quite European and not quite Japanese.

So, back to your original question: which is better, the Shun or Wusthof santoku? If I had to choose one I would go with the Shun simply because it is a Japanese manufacturer making a Japanese knife with Japanese steel. The steel used its harder than the Wusthof which pairs very well with how a santoku is meant to be used. You get all the benefits of a harder steel (ie. edge retention) while not having to worry about its toughness which can be an issue while rock chopping since it can cause twisting. However, I would also recommend you look beyond the Shun if you have other options available to you. Not including any import tax, the Fujiwara Santoku on japanesechefsknife costs about the same and has a much better steel (though it is reactive). Its fit an finish might not be as good as the name brand's but other than that I personally think is a better knife in every way.

Of course man! This is a very helpful sub, so keep coming back for help if you need on your knife journey whether it be sharpening or other suggestions.

And if you have the want, and know you’re gonna get something in the future anyways, there’s nothing wrong with grabbing a new one! You’d definitely have every right lol... Just imo proper care comes first. You don’t want to sharpen it yourself before you know how because you don’t want to scuff or scratch it, but at the same time it’s pretty much impossible to ruin a knife beyond repair...

As for whetstones, you have a couple options. The King 1k/6k is probably one of the most popular and recommended, but I would recommend spending a bit more and going with the Imanishi combo 1k/6k. I think it’s a much better stone and I can more comfortably sharpen any of my knives, whether it be my cheap Tojiro DP, “hard to sharpen” Misono UX10, or some carbon knives. People have said the King is “slow and sloppy” and doesn’t work as well on higher end steels. Never used one, but I love my Imanishi. You should be able to sharpen anything to arm-hair-shaving sharpness with that.
You can also guy with a solo 1k, as 1,000 grit is really all you need to keep your knives sharp... This would obviously open a lot more doors as well. I love my splash and go Shapton pro, very good stone that you would have good use for when you upgraded and got better with other stones. Instead of listing off a bunch of 1k stones, I’ll leave it with just the one and you can let me know if you have other questions. I’d suggest going with the combo still.

I recommend the Victorinox Fibrox, it performs well, it's comfortable and it's very durable. If you find the Fibrox handle too ugly, they offer the same blade but with a rosewood handle.

Care wise, touch up the edge with a hone to ensure it performs the best it can before you begin preparing food. Eventually however the edge will wear down, at which point you will need to sharpen it. For this I recommend the Shapton Kuromaku 1000, for guidence on how to use a whetstone check this playlist out.

The whetstone itself will also need to be maintained, as you use it you will wear it down unevenly and it will need to be flattened. Most people use a diamond plate but there is a more cost effective option that I use which is lapping the stone using SiC powder on glass, which is done like this (be aware however, that this method is MUCH louder and a bit messier than lapping with a diamond plate).

If all of this sounds like too much and you want a more simple care solution then you can get by very well by just using a ceramic sharpening rod. It combines the ability to touch up the edge quickly before use with the ability of a whetstone to remove material from the blade.

I got by with just a ceramic rod for a long time, but eventually bought whetstones when I wanted more control/better long term maintenance.

Ok, so the basic knives in a kit would be a chef's knife, a serrated knife, a pairing knife, kitchen shears, and then a honing steel, sharpener, or what most people on this subreddit would most likely recommend, a whetstone. Basically, serrated knife for bread, pairing knife for small, intricate tasks, kitchen shears for... tasks you don't really want to use a knife for, and the chef knife for everything else. The good news is also, if you get a western styled knife, chances are they'll have a classic french handle, so will largely match even when they're different brands.

tojiro and mac both make great serrated knives. There is debate over whether it is worth it to invest a lot in a serrated knife because they're a bitch to sharpen and most people just replace them when they get dull, so the cheaper of the 2 is the tojiro, so the easiest to recommend. If for some reason you find another one that catches your fancy, at the very least make sure it isn't perfectly straight, you want a curved blade for knuckle clearance

https://www.amazon.com/Tojiro-Bread-Slicer-270mm-F-687/dp/B004LVIO3O

so $62 for serrated knife

for all the others, for a cooking hobbiest, I would learn towards a softer german steel. They're usually more corrosion resistant, and less prone to chipping, and just feel solid and robust. There are basically 4 very reputable german steel knife brands that are the easiest to recommend. Wusthof, Henckel, Messermeister, and Victorinox.

For all knives, you want to avoid an overly large bolster that extends to the edge of the blade as it makes sharpening a bit more of a hassel. For a chef knife, dimples on the side are definitely not needed, but might be nice, as they can reduce how strongly like cheese sticks to the knife. And for Shears you want ones that come apart for easy cleaning.

I personally have the a lot of experience with Messermeister's meridian elite line. They look very knife, are very robust, and have a nice steel. Their 9 inch Kullenschliff(dimple on the side chef knife) is actually on sale for a steal right now probably about $145 retail, Its basically $100 including shipping atm https://www.amazon.com/Messermeister-Meridian-Elite-Kullenschliff-10-Inch/dp/B0000W34EM 8 or 9 inch is probably the length you want for a chef knife; if you look at his knives and he has a 9" or longer chef knife, I would definitely not go less than a 9inch, maybe go 10 if he has a 10 inch. If he doesn't have anything longer than an 8 inch, I wouldn't go above 9. If he doesn't have anything longer than a 7 inch, I would go 8. (you are measuring the length of the blade, not of the entire knife btw)

with pairing, might as go the same line. Then the question is 3.5", 4" or 4.5". A less experianced cook might use a pairing knife more because he is less comfortable with using the relatively large and heavy chef knife for a lot of tasks, so I'm leaning towards a little bigger and getting the 4".https://www.amazon.com/Messermeister-Meridian-Elite-Paring-3-5-Inch/dp/B000Q9EZ2Y

I'm leaning towards the all steel version of shears for easier cleaning as well. https://www.amazon.com/Messermeister-Spanish-Take-apart-Kitchen-Scissors/dp/B01AKBZSRS

So that's about $270 with everything except a knife block and a honing steel, maybe get an electric sharpener as well. Get a steel honing steel, not ceramic, and ceramic is easy to break and because none of the knives have a very high hrc, ceramic isn't need.

That is a really beautiful knife. I really appreciate the handle.

My first Chef's knife that was a gift to myself when I graduated college was a Victorinox Forschner which I still have. It is nothing special, but it has survived ten years of constant use, and it is close to my heart.

I have recently done a complete sharpen and polish on it. I enjoy maintaining my own tools. It gives me a great deal of satisfaction and pride.

Actually I think yours is better for this kind of thing; it looks like your handle is replaceable, whereas mine is a simple injection molded plastic one which I cannot figure out a way to replace, and it's a bit worn out now.

For something you'll really love and suits what you like best, go down a YouTube rabbit hole and watch a bunch of reviews if you haven't already. You'll find something you want I'm sure, and probably something you want but can't afford.

But if you want cost effective quality, Victorinox fibrox and Dexter seem to be well used with no regrets in the $40 range. Knives can get much better in the idealized sense, but above that is where the practical benefits don't seem so huge compared to just getting away from the knives made for people who don't even care.

America's test kitchen likes this one if I'm not mistaken:

https://www.russums-shop.co.uk/i/q/KV214/victorinox-fibrox-cooks-knife-22cm

Some day I might have the money to get something like a Kramer but that is even more expensive than the £150 budget.

I love my wusthof classic, £73 here.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00009ZK08/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_KNkLBbFHS1M0J

But i don't know, i could spend weeks reading and watching videos without ever making a purchase. The wusthof was a gift.

My all time favorite bread knife is the Mac Superior Bread Knife

This is the best bread knife you can get in the sub $100 range. The scalloped serrations will be perfect for a pastry chef who must delicately cut softer pastries.

Edit: Your other two options are the Mac Professional Bread Knife. Same blade as before, but with a higher end fit and finish. The budget option is the Tojiro Bread Slicer. This is a "knock off" of the Mac Superior. It has the best bang for your buck, but the fit and finish is lacking.

I have owned the Tojiro and Mac Superior, and own a couple knives in the Mac Professional line, so I am familiar with it's construction.

That is not a terrible starter, but you can find a better quality King comb stone.
https://www.amazon.com/KING-KW65-Combination-Whetstone-Plastic/dp/B001DT1X9O/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=whetstone+knife+sharpener+king&qid=1551396328&s=gateway&sr=8-5.

A Shapton 1500 can be had for around $40usd, & will produce a very fine edge & will not dish as quickly. I have sharpened half a dozen knives and there is no visible dishing. Plus it is a splash & go, no soaking needed.
https://www.amazon.com/Whetstone-Sharpening-Shapton-Ceramic-KUROMAKU/dp/B001TPJARE/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=shapton+1500&qid=1551396805&s=gateway&sr=8-1

The thing with that Pebble is the 1000 grit side will dish pretty easily and fast. We have one at work. One of my cooks bought it. It will produce a nice edge, and the 6000 side will polish pretty nicely. The base is actually pretty nice.

Hi. I was going to pick up a Wusthof Ikon when a buddy of mine told me that the Victorinox Fibrox was gonna be almost as good for 1/4th the price. After doing some more research, I saw a lot of people preaching the superiority of Japanese knives in that price range. Rather than settle for the Fibrox, I decided to keep my original budget but look for a better knife. After reading the wiki, I settled on the Masakage Yuki Gyuto 240mm, which the guide said was $180.

Unfortunately, the Masakage Yuki Gyuto has gone up in price quite considerably since that guide was written. At $260, it's no longer in my budget, and I'm wondering if it's even worth that much (compared to other knives in that range). So I thought I'd post here and look for further input.

1. I'm not experienced in either style, but I like the Japanese aesthetic. I'm definitely more used to Western handles though.
   
2. Any
   
3. D-Shaped or Round preferred
   
4. Either
   
5. 180mm to 240mm max
   
6. All-purpose, entry level (or slightly above entry level) knife. Gyutos seem to fit that bill, much like the Western "Cook's" or "Chef" knife.
   
7. Honing
   
8. $120 - $200
   
   Since reconsidering the Masakage, I've been looking at these options:
   
   Tojiro DP (https://www.amazon.com/Tojiro-DP-Gyutou-8-2-21cm/dp/B000UANWIC)
   
   Gesshin Stainless (https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/products/gesshin-240mm-stainless-gyuto)
   
   Something by Yoshihiro, I like this Santoku but it doesn't seem as "all-purpose" as a Gyuto (https://www.amazon.com/Yoshihiro-Aogami-Carbon-Kurouchi-Santoku/dp/B006DNK93Q)
   
   Another by Yoshihiro, in my price range (https://www.amazon.com/Yoshihiro-Layer-Hammered-Damascus-Japanese/dp/B00D6DVTM6)
   
   ​
   
   I also have no idea where to start with purchasing a honing rod. Building a computer was actually easier than this, haha.
   
   Thanks! Your input is really appreciated!

Very generally speaking most "western" knives have larger curves to the edge which make them more suited to rock chopping and many of them use softer steels which take more abuse but don't get the same kind of edge you can from other steels. Japanese knives can still rock chop but many don't have as hard curves so they don't come up so high off the board for rocking. You probably already have a western style handle; a japanese or wa style handle looks something like this; something uniformly round or octagonal shaped. We'll go ahead and assume you want something stainless and with a blade size around 8inches or 210mm. The knife I linked would be your best starting option if you feel like trying out a wa style handle type, otherwise something like a Tojiro or a Victorinox are great budget chefs knives that are solid recommendations.

Here's the perennial recommendation at that price point--https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Fibrox-Chefs-Knife-8-Inch/dp/B000638D32. It's a great knife for the money--better than the cheap crap most people use, and a good stepping stone for getting into nicer stuff in the future.

Edit: Alternatively, you could both go in on a nicer knife together, with her contribution constituting her gift to you.

If you go a tier or two up, I would highly recommend the gesshin stainless wa gyuto from JKI (I would far more prefer this to the mass market hybrid brands like shun, miyabi, dalstrong, etc.): https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/products/gesshin-stainless-210mm-wa-gyuto.

Of course, people have different attitudes about gifts, and the idea of splitting something may seem too transactional, or run contrary to her (or your) ideas about gift giving.

I bought the tojiro gyuto (amazon link https://www.amazon.com/Tojiro-DP-Gyutou-8-2-21cm/dp/B000UAPQGS) for my first knife. It's served me well for just about everything, holds an edge incredibly well, sharpens without too much effort, feels great, and has an aesthetically simple beauty. I also appreciated it later on since I found that it's more forgiving than many japanese knives wrt the blade and point without needing to use japanese knifework. I've heard equally good things about their 7" santoku, though it obviously won't rock at all.

I really can’t recommend that sharp pebble stone. It is cheap (not meant as a disparaging comment), but it’s very slow. Very frustrating to sharpen on. I had it for about a year and I never liked to sharpen on it. For great bang for the buck sharpening setup, I really like what I have. King pb-04 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008FU4332) and the shapton pro 2k (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002LW54RO)

There are definitely other great combos out there, but I think this set provides probably the best experience for the amount of money spent.

​

I sold my set of Shun knives for $500, bought a 1k and 5k Shapton, an Ikazuchi 240, and a bunch of cheap stainless knives for my family to use.

​

They are also for me to practice sharpening and see if I like a cleaver and Nakiri.

​

The two kiwi's were $12 from Amazon. They came pretty dull. I've worked the Nakiri up to a reasonable sharpness with three 1k passes and cloth stropping. But it's still not very sharp, barely takes off arm hair.

​

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D8FN4CY

​

I've probably done a few hundred passes on the 1k stone for each section of the knife. Burrs form, come off. Still not super sharp. I don't know if these are worth the time.

​

The victorinox fibrox 8" came pretty sharp. I've done about 3-4 1k sessions of about 100 strokes. It's gotten sharper. I find it somewhat difficult to sharpen.

​

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008M5U1C2

​

The chef cleaver is amazing! I love this knife. Out of the box it's super sharp. With one session of 1k and 5k it got even sharper. Very happy. Not sure I yet like the chinese cleaver, it feels very unfamiliar but it's a great knife.

​

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Handmade-Japanese-VG-10-Steel-Cleaver-7-inch-Vegetable-Chopping-Knife-Flatware/323061776505

​

​

I have watched just about every video imaginable on sharpening and read a lot here. I'll just keep learning but I have a few questions.

​

My goal with these is to keep a decent edge for a month or longer. I have a shapton 1k and 5k. Is the 1k enough? I've heard it's a coarse (maybe 800) whetstone.

​

And the the 5k (I've read) is too high for budget stainless sharpening (not polishing, no need for that.) Do I need something in between? The 2k Shapton is affordable. The 3k chosera is expensive but maybe better? Any other suggestions?

The first one isn't a vegetable "cleaver"; it's a full-on cleaver to go through bones.

Hard to say much about the 2nd one. It's a stainless steel thin vegetable (or general purpose) knife. These vary in quality from OK (e.g., Dexter Russell, approx 55HRC) to 420J2 or similar and much softer (maybe 50-52HRC).

Kiwi is a cheap brand, and comparable to the lower end versions of the previous knife. People praise them for great value, but IMO they're not great knives. If you want something cheap (and tough) to try this style of knife, could be a fair option.

The Winco is a knife of the same type as the 2nd one above. Not the best, and not the worst. Might be a good cheap alternative to the Kiwi if you want something with a round handle.

The last one could be OK. Personally, I'd avoid it and get a Deng for a few dollars more: https://www.amazon.com/DENGJIA-KNIFE-Ultra-Sharp-Composite-Labor-saving/dp/B07RBRTLDG/

If you want a bigger knife that isn't too heavy, there's the 9" Shibazi: https://www.amazon.com/Professional-Stainless-Vegetable-Non-stick-Anti-slip/dp/B0768H6PS9/ (350g, so not light, but not heavy for a 9"). A little over your $40 target.

The Winco works well as a cheap option. The Winco 401 is heavier, a general-purpose Chinese knife rather than a very thin vegetable knife, and would be a good cheap option if that;s the kind of knife you're after.

Ahoy rahvin36! Nay bad but me wasn't convinced. Give this a sail:

Thanks db33511. At $100, would thar Suisin Inox be better than thar gesshin stainless? They d' look nicer though. Be thar difference a lot betwixt thar $60 MAC n' these 2 at $100?

MAC knife's BK80 at $110 be just $86 on amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RKQ3FY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1MOIDKF4ZO4UB&psc=1

It says Dis 8" chef's knife be heavier than thar HB-85 due t' a slightly thicker blade n' larger handle, but me don't know if dis be important, since it seems t' me that they use thar same steel as thar $65 HB-85, n' thus, maybe they have thar same performance.

But then, at $85, https://www.amazon.com/Misono-Molybdenum-Gyutou-8-2-21cm/dp/B000XT4GJO/ref=sr_1_2?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1537599466&sr=1-2&keywords=misono+molybdenum would come out even cheaper.

Arggh, I be so confused. I'd like t' stay as low as possible, but then again, I be going t' use these fer a verily verily long time. Thanks fer all thar help.

ya seriously, don't bring over a grand worth of knives to school.

maybe bring just one, the chef knife, but definitely not the whole set. and i would wait like at least the second month into the semester, after everyone learns about the #1 rule of kitchens, which is "don't touch my knife without asking for permission."

i'd also be wary if you are the only person with a really nice knife, as it is good bait to be stolen, or people could fuck with your knife and break it out of malice or just incompetence. unless one is knowledgeable of knives, one will assume all are equal, and can do anything and everything with it, like trying to cut a butternut squash, or coring an avocado...it would be shitty for a classmate to break your knife by doing something dumb with it, and how would you hold them accountable for breaking a CAD$ 350 ish knife? school ain't gonna do shit about it, just like in the industry.

***
edit:

since all your knives are SG2 steel, with a hrc of 63, you will also need a beater work horse knife to cut really hard stuff like butternut squash. i suggest you get something like victorinox fibrox, a CAD$60 stamped knife, which will get the job done.

another benefit of using something that's not laser sharp is that it forces you to have good technique when cutting, great for when you are really practicing your cuts. this knife can get decently sharp if you use whetstones, but just has shit edge retention.

think of the analogy of getting a honda civic as your first car to learn to drive, as opposed to getting a ferrari.

edit 2:

in continuation of the car analogy, when you start your first job, you better fucking have good knife skills, or you will be clowned day and night. as the "FNG" (fucking new guy/gal), you will earn a lot of respect if you rock a fancy knife and can back it up with the knife skills, but will lose a lot of respect if you can't cut for shit.

don't we all just laugh at all the youtube videos of jackasses trying to stunt with their supercars, only to crash into a light pole 30 seconds later? ya, kinda like that.

Thanks db33511. At $100, would the Suisin Inox be better than the gesshin stainless? They do look nicer though. Is the difference a lot between the $60 MAC and these 2 at $100?

MAC knife's BK80 at $110 is just $86 on amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RKQ3FY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1MOIDKF4ZO4UB&psc=1

It says This 8" chef's knife is heavier than the HB-85 due to a slightly thicker blade and larger handle, but I don't know if this is important, since it seems to me that they use the same steel as the $65 HB-85, and thus, maybe they have the same performance.

But then, at $85, https://www.amazon.com/Misono-Molybdenum-Gyutou-8-2-21cm/dp/B000XT4GJO/ref=sr_1_2?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1537599466&sr=1-2&keywords=misono+molybdenum would come out even cheaper.

From the looks in the pictures, I like MAC the least. But I'd put performance ahead of looks though.

Arggh, I'm so confused. I'd like to stay as low as possible, but then again, I'm going to use these for a really really long time. Thanks for all the help.

For $120 and two knives, there is the omnipresent starter option - the Tojiro DP line.

I'd start with the gyuto or the santoku. They overlap for the larger tasks and its really more preference on the shape. They both are too thin and the steel is too brittle to cut bones or hard vegetables (pumpkin/squash) with (which your Wusthof can take care of) but will go through veg and protein pretty easily.

Then you have budget left over for the petty, which is kind of like a long thin paring knife. Good for smaller tasks or things that need delicate tip work.

you might even have some budget left over to pick up a stone. This is a popular beginner option.

Edit: The other option is MAC knives. Same shapes apply

it really only takes a few minutes to sharpen a knife. There is some setup time, if you have to soak a stone, and increase time for how many stones you have in your progression.

For the average home user, a single 1000 grit stone is probably enough. The recommend chosera stone is great, but is about $70, the shapton pro 1000(or 2000) is ~$40 as will do just as good.(FWIW I own and love the chosera 800, but recommend the shaptons)

https://www.amazon.com/Kuromaku-Ceramic-Whetstone-Medium-Grit/dp/B001TPFT0G

https://www.amazon.com/Medium-Grade-Millstone-Mastermind-Shaputon/dp/B002LW54RO/

What knives are you sharpening?

It sounds overwhelming, but sharpening is stupidly simple in theory, and you'll get the hang of it quickly.

Check out japaneseknifeimports on youtube for great videos.

Messermeister has a couple of lines that might fit the bill, although maybe a bit more refined than rustic, like:

Royale Elite

Oliva Elite

A more rustic western knife:

Warther 9". A tad longer than you want.

From your other comments, I can't tell if you're open to Yo handled gyutos or not, but here are a couple options. Keep in mind, these knives should only be sharpened on whetstones as the steel is much harder:

Yoshihiro VG10. I have this knife and love it.

Kanehide PS60. More of a performer. Supposed to be a great knife.

Takamura Chromax. Also considered quite the performer.

Yoshihiro Daisu Ko 9.5". Longer than you want and out of stock at this website, but more "rustic".

I'm a big fan of this guy. Reviews are raving for this one, dimples are gimmicky but I think it looks nice. I haven't read any bad things about MAC so I don't think you can go wrong. Personally I can't get a hold of MAC knives because they sell at $200 plus (imported). The MTH-80 is around the $300 mark. But if you are in US, USD$140 is still good within reason, if you can get it on sale - definitely a good pick up.

Demonstration

I don't think a $30 knife would be a significant upgrade once you've sharpened yours. And learning to hone your knives will serve you well no matter what you get in the end. There are lots of devices you can get with less of a learning curve, but for the ultimate flexibility it's worth the time to learn how to use a waterstone as it's inexpensive compared to sharpening systems that can come close in quality and takes off less metal (and thus helps your knives last longer) + does a better job compared to the usual pull-through thingies you see.

​

I'd suggest 1000 grit to start as enough to help you maintain your knife for quite a while. This Shapton is $40 but worth the extra $10 over the commonly recommended King (and other cheaper whetstones) becauase:

• you don't have to soak it
  
• it cuts faster so it'll be less frustrating (though it'll still take you a while initially because your knife is so dull)
  
• it takes longer to get "dished" (low in the middle) and need flattening with eg. some wetdry sandpaper on a piece of glass or other reliably flat surface. Which also means it'll last much longer.
  
  https://www.amazon.com/Kuromaku-Ceramic-Whetstone-Medium-Grit/dp/B001TPFT0G
  
  ​
  
  It'll let you keep your knife sharp for years. Probably decades. So worth getting a good one 'cause you're stuck with it a long time. Now you can make it sharper with more stones at higher grits, or sharpen faster with some at lower, but ultimately taking it really high isn't worth it unless you have a harder steel---the edge will wear out rapidly and you'll just need to sharpen it again. If you want, you can make a $1 knife just ridiculously sharp, but it won't stay that way:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P6klz6BTek

Yes! I think the best Chef Knife for the dollar is victorinox 8" Fibrox.

Victorinox 8 Inch Fibrox Pro Chef's Knife 40520, 47520, 45520 Frustration Free Packaging https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008M5U1C2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_uVjlyb40RH6RB

Rated best Knife by Cooks Illustrated and me ;)

The VNox has been around forever and is a solid knife at it's price point. I have a preference for the Wustie Pro that's been recently introduced to compete with the VNox. Better for sharpening. Neither holds an edge very well. If you like the belly of the German style, either will work.

https://www.amazon.com/Wusthof-Pro-Cooks-Knife-8-Inch/dp/B008GRUNOC/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1486001952&sr=1-1&keywords=wusthof+pro+chef+knife

The Tohiro will cost a little more. (very little) but will give you a better knife. May require some sharpening out of the box but will retain the edge much better. In Au they've been available from Knives and Stones. And if you can reach a little deeper he's got some Tanaka that are a better knife still. If you go with a Japanese choice you'll want to lose the steel - it will chip the harder steels instead of folding it into place.

. http://www.knivesandstones.com/

Realistically you can use any knife at all, but the one you linked is probably of dubious quality. If you really dont want to spend a lot on a knife, might I recommend you a Kiwi knife instead? It is the same price and many of our users here can vouch for their quality, myself included.

If you are willing to increase your budget a little bit, the Wusthof Pro is even better and will be an excellent blade for home use.

I'm going to disagree strongly with anyone advising you to use ANY type of rod on this knife. This knife is is very hard. Well, the cutting edge is, the cladding isn't. The core steel is advertised as 63-64 hrc. That's hard enough to chip if you use any type or rod on it.

There are generally 2 types of honing rods. Abrasive and non-abrasive. Non-abrasive rods are meant to be used on softer steels like those found in European knives. The edge can be bent out of line by use and a honing steel rod can be used to straighten it back into line between sharpenings on a stone.

Abrasive rods are a bad idea on this knife (and all knives in general except serrated edges in my opinion) because of their hardness and shape. In order to keep the overall shape of the cutting edge you need a flatter abrasive surface (like a stone) or you could end up with a "hollow" spot in the edge profile. I apologise that i don'e have a picture to illustrate but imagine if you cut something and there is a place on the edge that can't contact the cutting board because it has been ground away too much.

For sharpening get a stone. I'd start with this one https://www.amazon.com/Kuromaku-Ceramic-Whetstone-Medium-Grit/dp/B001TPFT0G

Beautiful knife. Lucky husband. Enjoy

I've only got a cheap (but I love it) santoku that I've had for years and have never sharpened because I've never had a stone. Besides that I've only got a set of Cuisnart knives in a block and using a steel wand for sharpening.

I've gotten into more experimental cooking and would like to get a good set of knives.

I'm looking at gyutou knives as my next one and my budget is what you see in the link. Amazon Prime Day sale brings this one down to $100 CAD (about 76 US). I'd like to stick with Amazon for this purchase, for 'reasons'.

thoughts and what kind of stone should I look for?

This is the stone it recommends with the knife.

https://www.amazon.ca/KING-KW65-Combination-Whetstone-Plastic/dp/B001DT1X9O

https://www.amazon.com/Yoshihiro-Hammered-Damascus-Japanese-Mahogany/dp/B00D6DVTM6/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1536105796&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=yoshihiro%2Bgyuto&th=1

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/mivgda21gy.html

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yavgdawegy21.html

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yavggy21.html

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kovgdagy21.html

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/todpda18gy.html

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/mavggy18.html

Some sub-200 things I found. I personally enjoy Yoshihiro's VG-10 and find that their VG-10 pretty consistently well heat treated. You don't get the chippiness issues you often hear about that I think contributes to VG-10's lessened popularity as a knife steel. It's a good steel, IMO. I have experience with Kohetsu as well, and think this model is a good knife. I've used Masutani VG-1 before but not VG-10, and I sadly don't see 210 or 240mm offerings, they just have this 180mm which is too short for me.

The others are just things I've seen recommended but have not experienced.

Thank you for your reply!

I currently have those 2 whetstones:

• 1000/6000 (https://www.amazon.ca/King-Japanese-Combination-Sharpening-KW-65/dp/B00M8P96QE/)
  
• 400/100 (https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0055B2RGO/)
  
  As a side note, I thought there would be more difference performance wise between the whustof and the henckles international, since they have such a significant price difference. I know they use the same steel but I thought perhaps a thinner blade?! Anyway, if the only performance improvement is the handle, that is definitely not worth the upgrade.

Thanks!

​

My current knife is a Zwilling Artisan 8".

Maybe I am overstating it's state. There are a lot of "chips" in the edge. When I e.g. chop parsley and such, it does not cut through all of it. Maybe the chips are small enough to elbow grease it.

​

Here are some photos.

​

Nevertheless, I would still like to get a second knife, 1 tier up. Because I actually have 2 kitchens, 1 in the house, and another one in the summer house (in the same yard). And I don't want to be hauling this one every time.

I also need a "beater" knife for occasions when we have chicken and pig slaughter. I butcher ~30-40 chickens a year, and once 2-3 times a year we butcher a few pigs.

​

So I would use this new knife for everyday cooking, and the old one, once repaired, to brute force other tasks.

​

Is there anything you can say of Burgvogel Oliva Line? It's a european brand name for Messermeister.

I am debating between it and Wusthof Ikon Classic for a german contender.

I guess the only contender form the japanese side is currently Tojiro DP3, if I decide to go that route.

I can get Burgvogel and Wusthof for ~80€, and Tojiro for ~100€.

I am also confused that in USA, there is a Messermeister Oliva ELITE. Not sure if it's the same knife, or a better one. It's more expensive, so it should be better. But I can find no reviews on the EU version.

​

I have another question though.. At what hardness does honing steel "stop working"?

Is there a clean break, like, hardness 59 or whatever?

I do plan on getting an inexpensive whetstone with the appropriate grit, but I want to make sure I get a knife that I can hone regularly, and sand occasionally. I simply don't have time to sand all the time.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008M5U1C2/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1511198974&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=victorinox+knife&dpPl=1&dpID=31PCiVEQOIL&ref=plSrch

This will hold you up well in a professional kitchen if you’re on a budget. Really comfortable too, great for hours of prep work. I’ve got a bunch of carbon steel Gyutos and still grab this one from my kit if I know I’m going to be cutting through vegetables for the next few hours. Everything else makes my hand go sore.

yeah, no, it is not. if you can get a shapton pro 1k, do it - https://www.amazon.ca/Kuromaku-Ceramic-Whetstone-Medium-Shapton/dp/B001TPFT0G/

its pretty cheap and absolutely amazing. your sharpening skill will improve drastically

are they very flexible? seem too be some kind of butcher knife set. the knife handles suggest so at least. id sugest keeping them but complimenting the set with a https://www.amazon.com/d/Chefs-Knives/Wusthof-Pro-Cooks-Knife-8-Inch/B008GRUNOC . really reliable knife. otherwise id suggest a global g-55. hope this helps :)

I was just kidding. There was a post a bit ago about a knife that broke like yours (but was a lot more expensive) and they said they washed it in really hot water. I thought it was funny because I practically burn my skin to wash my dishes in as hot water as I can.

I’m in the market for a new chef’s knife and am thinking of getting this guy.

Mac Knife Professional Hollow Edge Chef's Knife, 8-Inch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000N5H2XU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_.8LNBbXA15REX

Also, I’m glad you still have all of your fingers. I could feel my heart contract when I pictured the worse case scenario. It was definitely a “note to self” moment.

Shibazi F208 seems pretty well liked and really reasonable priced (and easily available on Amazon!)

not exactly a petty but what about victorinox or Mercer? She could well be old enough to handle a light western style chef‘s knife like an 8 inch fibrox. The knives aren’t lookers but low maintenance and the handle makes for a secure grip.

https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Fibrox-Chefs-Knife-8-Inch/dp/B000638D32

All the petties I know are kind of not within the budget. Also you’d need a pretty tall petty imho so that further complicates things.

The reviewmeta on this is all right, they may have spread these out as freebies in a promotional push, but the legit reviews still are very positive. In comparison, Tojiro has no issues with reviews what so ever.

Also this brand is made in China, which is not a negative in and of itself.

I’d say they’re not a scam, but they’re not an extraordinary value. They’re probably worth about what they cost, ~$23/knife.

A Japanese knife from a reputable maker like a Misono Molybdenum and a cheap paring knife (Victorinox, Opinel, etc.) or 2 might be a better expenditure.

most chefs i've worked with agree, this is about as good a knife as money can buy

https://www.amazon.com/Mac-Knife-Professional-Hollow-8-Inch/dp/B000N5H2XU

and this is right up there with it

edit: misono also makes a clad gyuto that is about as good

https://www.amazon.com/Misono-Swedish-Carbon-Steel-Gyutou/dp/B002B76H1G/

in my very brief time using both of them, i'd have to say they aren't wrong

Maybe this would be good, I have never used it but it has a very good reputation, sort of fits the profile/ price point, and it seems to be thought of as one of the more durable knives, though not German level durable. https://www.amazon.com/Mac-Knife-Professional-Hollow-8-Inch/dp/B000N5H2XU

It is not going to be as thin or long lasting as some hand made knives, but that can't be avoided if you want more durability.

For a whetstone, you got two options that are at a lower price point but still are decent quality. First are the King stones. You can get a combo 1k/6k stone for 20ish bucks. You might want to get a rougher stone too. These tend to be softer so they're harder to start sharpening on. They also need to be soaked and are slow cutting so its more of a mess, but if used right can produce a good edge. The other is the Shapton pro line. These are harder stones, cut faster, and splash and go so you don't have to soak them. Its about 100 bucks though for both a 1k and 5k, more if you want a rough one.

You may like one of these:
Wusthof chef knife, it's just over your budget but they're great knives
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00009ZK08/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1498443162&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=wusthof+chef+knife&dpPl=1&dpID=21QhJtFO0fL&ref=plSrch

Henckels chef knife, this one is cheaper, and the main difference is the blade is thicker and heavier than the Wusthof
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00004RFLI/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1498443233&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=henckels+chef+knife

Just wanted to add the links here. The dimensions are different but I have to assume one of them is wrong. Any help is much appreciated, thanks.

Victorinox Fibrox Pro Chef's Knife, 8-Inch Chef's https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000638D32/

Victorinox Fibrox Pro Chef's Knife, 8-Inch Chef's FFP https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008M5U1C2/

There's a lot of middle ground between Walmart knives and a $1500 set, and there is no such thing as a perfect knife. Everyone has their own preferences, which can only come from experience. Dropping four digits on knives without having this experience is a good way to waste a lot of money.

That is why for your first set of quality knives I recommend getting something middle-of-the-road and saving the rest of your money for later.

For example, you could go with this set: chef+paring, utility, serrated, ceramic hone, cutting board. Learn to use these knives and care for them, develop your own likes and dislikes, and then decide where you want to go next.

Honestly for just getting started and not wanting to spend a lot, I'd say go with a Victorinox Fibrox 8" Chef for $29.99. It will serve you well enough before you decide if you want to go down the rabbit-hole:

https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Fibrox-Chefs-Knife-8-Inch/dp/B000638D32/

If your idea of "not spending a lot" far exceeds this price there are likely far better options.

Cool, thanks! Seems like the stuff labeled Shapton Pro specifically has been discontinued due to some change in logistics with distributors. Is this the current equivalent?

Fibrox 8” chef knife:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000638D32

Shapton 1k Sharpening Stone: Ha No Kuromaku Ceramic Whetstone:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001TPFT0G

Lapping stone (to flatten your whetstone after it needs leveling from use...you won’t need this right now and can make do without):
Atoma Diamond Sharpener Medium -... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0031KNR2O

Here’s the utility knife version of the larger knife, one of my personal favorites, same thing but 5” instead of 8” : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QCLEFC

The fibrox has relatively soft steel compared to most Japanese styles so it is a more forgiving blade and won’t chip. This also means you can use a honing rod between uses to maintain its edge and not have to sharpen as often.

Low maintenance you say? I'd probably aim for Victorinox fibrox 8" (it's 30ish USD) and then either a ceramic rod or King 1000 whetstone if you want to learn to sharpen. It won't come with a guard, but they're pretty cheap. Vic's brand is called the Bladesafe.

I've got some nicer Macs now, but my Fibrox has gone 7 years and still goes on kicking. I've broken down chickens with it and smashed garlic and never really had a chip, and it sharpens easily.

https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Fibrox-Chefs-Knife-8-Inch/dp/B008M5U1C2

Be all like what? My lack of criticism of a mediocre blog post or my cursing? Literally three out of the five points are fucking stupid. You use a chefs knife to chop, slice and mince?! Really!? No way! A sexy knife? A warranty?

A low effort post begets a low effort post. I get the want for people to earn money off of shit but put some fucking effort into it. Those amazon links are references to earn OP money. I can't stand that shit when no effort is made on the part of OP.

The blog post offers the reader no new information other than opinions. No factual data. Only opinions on an overpriced knife. Why would you ever buy a $130 knife with a bolster? Get a fucking MAC for $20 more without one. And it takes an edge like a champ.

https://smile.amazon.com/Mac-Knife-Professional-Hollow-8-Inch/dp/B000N5H2XU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1493471785&sr=8-1&keywords=mth-80

That smile link is for the EFF (https://www.eff.org/).

I get the need for a quality knife to last, but this post offers little in the way of actual advice. Only why they like Wusthof.

Depending what your used to it may be better than what you have, guessing so since your asking about it. The steel is quite soft and won’t hold a edge very well, but it would be easy to sharpen. My recommendation for a decent starter knife is a Tojiro dp Decent steel, not expensive.

Tojiro DP Gyutou - 8.2" (21cm) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UAPQGS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_VSAOBbFST55H8

I recommend you get a 1000 and 5000 grit shapton. Here's a link to some gray market stones that are identical to shaptons, and perform a lot better than the default 1k/6k king stone that most people start out with.

1k: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TPFT0G/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

5k: https://www.amazon.com/Whetstone-Sharpening-SHAPTON-Ceramic-KUROMAKU/dp/B001TPH8YG/ref=pd_sim_469_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0N8H7SNX72X7APNGR47J

In terms of honing rods, general thoughts are that you shouldn't use a steel honing rod on a 60+ hrc knife. Probably just do touchups on the 5000 grit stone, or I've also had luck with using very light pressure (maybe just the weight of the knife) on a ceramic rod for touchups.

If you want a set I really like the Tojiro. Save you $50, same steel, and I prefer a normal utility over serrated.

Add the Tojiro bread knife and you’ve got all the knives a cook would need and you’re still $15 under the Shun set.

Now that I think about it, you probably won't want a laser for your first good knife. They are great, but not at everything. They are so thin that they aren't great for breaking down bigger /harder things like squash. The uraku will be a solid all-rounder. And with your left over $50 you can get this to keep it sharp.

King Deluxe 1K comes in at $22, and for a knife like either of the ones I suggested will be all you really need. If you can save more, the Shapton Ha No Kuromaku is a common recommendation.

​

Also notice you asked in another comment about the difference between certain likes of knives. Your wording was a bit odd but I assume you are asking about the difference between the forged and the stamped lines? I can't speak about the Henkels knives, but Wusthof uses fewer steps when heat treating their stamped knives. This leaves them at around 56HRC instead of the 58HRC that their forged knives are hardened to. For a $35-$40 knife this isn't all that bad, but if you were looking at the Wusthof Gourmet line it's kind of silly.

​

Edit: Knife hardness is actually a really complicated subject. There are far to many variables for me to explain here (partly because I'm not the most knowledgeable about all of them) but try not to get to caught up in it just yet. Here are three categories for you: Really hard knives (Japanese mostly), not so hard knives (European mostly), junk that looks like knives/costs more than makes sense (things that put most of the budget into marketing or aesthetics)

I've used rust erasers nlike these:
Rust Eraser Sabitoru Medium and Fine 2-piece Set https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FS0BFJC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fvB.BbBE2T4AN

It gets em off pretty well.

I second what u/fiskedyret said. Get yourself a paring knife and a good serrated bread knife and you will be all set. If you're going to be cutting meats you also might want to invest in a boning/filet knife. You don't need anything too fancy yet. For someone just starting out I usually recommend Victorinox https://www.swissarmy.com/us/en/Products/Cutlery/Fibrox-Pro-6-Inch-Boning-Knife/p/5.6413.15 or whustof https://www.amazon.com/Wusthof-Classic-8-Inch-Cooks-Knife/dp/B00009ZK08 as they are both easily maintained and very decent knives. Im also sure there are guys around here who can point you in the direction of some good starter Japanese knives if that's more you're thing but it's not really mine.

Detrimental propably not but they are mostly much softer than even the king stones and the 6k rating is closer to 2-3k.

You will propably be better of even with a single ~1k stone or another king.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Naniwa-Sharpening-Stone-System-Multicoloured/dp/B000Z2P3IC/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1540570772&sr=8-4&keywords=naniwa

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0016VE6D4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1_1_1?smid=A3I6JEDMMCCBQE&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001DT1X9O/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1_1_1?smid=A2X6P1DRYHU8NR&psc=1

We usually don't recommend sets because they don't match what we'd recommend you spend that money on. That same $170 would get you a fantastic mid-range gyuto that will really change the way you cook--or a solid $100 entry-level (for us knife nerds) gyuto and a couple of sharpening stones that will set you up well for years.

Also, a bread knife is worth having for many home chefs, but $55 is about $30 too much. Bread knives can't really be sharpened, so they'll only last a few years regardless of quality. The Tojiro 235mm (http://amzn.com/B001TPA816) is less than twenty bucks and flies through breads, cakes, and tomatoes.

/thread This is honestly the most recommended knife over here. And they're cheap enough to be used as house knives in restaurants.

Hi,

I got the shapton Kuromaku 1000 (Japanese Shapton pro) and have been very happy with it. It’s also right within your budget.

https://www.amazon.com/Kuromaku-Ceramic-Whetstone-Medium-Grit/dp/B001TPFT0G/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1541257897&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=shapton+kuromaku+1000&dpPl=1&dpID=41uhuBgfaBL&ref=plSrch

I also got a large silicon pet mat for $10 to act as my sharpening pond.

I'd go for something like this:

• Shapton 1k - https://www.amazon.com/Kuromaku-Ceramic-Whetstone-Medium-Grit/dp/B001TPFT0G/
  
  
• Shapton 5k - https://www.amazon.com/Whetstone-Sharpening-SHAPTON-Ceramic-KUROMAKU/dp/B001TPH8YG/
  
  That's just $90. Maybe much later when you really need a rough stone, get the 320 Shapton or something in Diamond for ~30

Get these 3.

Shapton Kuro 1K

Shapton Kuro 5K

Kitayama 8K or get one with a base here Kita with base and use it as a sharpening base like this http://www.auplod.com/u/apludoa4a69.jpeg by putting an anti-slip mat on top of the Kita.

You're not far from Kyoto, might be worth an hour detour the next time you're in the city. The wiki has a list of well known shops.

You actually have access to the no-frills cheap professional knives in the Japanese domestic market if you're willing to put in ~10000 yen for a high quality blade.

If that sounds like too much trouble, this is never a bad choice.

This would be my first choice, link is for the the 9.5", the 8 is 20cad more for some reason:
https://www.toshoknifearts.com/collections/gyuto/products/kanefusa-fujiwara-nihonko-br-240mm-gyuto

House of Knives is having a sale on the Global 8" chef, this would be my last choice:
https://houseofknives.ca/global-gf-8-chefs-knife-gf-33/

There is also the Tojiro DP on Amazon, solid budget performance, widely recommended:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B000UAPQGS/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511671118&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=tojiro+dp

If you wanted to save money, there are the Mercer knives on Amazon, not amazing, but I would still choose it over the Global: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B001B1AG7Y/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1511671828&sr=8-2-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=mercer+culinary&psc=1

Looks like its only 75 on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XT4GJO/

Thanks for the insight. Also, some of the knives you suggested come with a "initial sharpening" option when you order. Do you think this initial sharpening will get the knife sharp enough? (for example: http://www.korin.com/Knives/Inox-Western-Style_2 )
When it comes to sharpening, I've been reading about stones and am considering this stone. Any thoughts? https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Combination-Sharpening-KW-65-Nagura/dp/B00M8P96QE Yes, I know it's rather cheap but this is my first foray into Japanese knives and I'm looking for something that will get the job done.

would a stone like this work?

https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Sharpening-Stone-Whetstone-Combination/dp/B001DT1X9O/ref=sr_1_3?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1494560417&sr=1-3&keywords=6000+grit+stone

How often will I need to use the stone if I do not purchase a rod?

Get a tojiro dp gyuto https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000UAPQGS/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1509878616&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=tojiro+dp&dpPl=1&dpID=2108CSnwQ7L&ref=plSrch

It's A LOT better than the knives you're considering and cheaper too.

I'd recommend this instead for the $150 price range

https://smile.amazon.com/Mac-Knife-Professional-Hollow-8-Inch/dp/B000N5H2XU?crid=1R4ZGZ0Z5DFEQ&keywords=mac+mth-80&qid=1540772038&sprefix=mac+mth%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-3&ref=sr_1_3

The knife you linked has a bolster which makes it hard to sharpen and can get in the way when you are using it. A step up from that would be the Wustoff Classic. Or if you want a slightly cheaper option the Wustoff Pro is great but has a plastic handle.

Edit: Fixed link and capitalization.

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/stone-sets-and-combo-stones/products/king-1000-6000-combo-stone

https://www.amazon.com/d/Sharpening-Stones/KING-KW65-Combination-Whetstone-Plastic/B001DT1X9O

Hey I was wondering if you can clarify why these 2 same stones are priced differently and if the Amazon one is fake.

The amazon one says to soak the stone for 2 min on 1000 grit side and spash water on the finishing stone. The JKI one says to soak for 15 minutes before use.

I'm getting mixed answers on how often I should sharpen a knife. How often should one sharpen a knife if they only cook for themselves 2 meals a day?

Thanks man!

This is the best starter knife you can buy. Many kitchens issue these to their cooks. They are well designed, can take a beating, and sharpen easily. I've had mine for 6.5 years and still use it regularly. It still takes a wicked edge on my stones.