Best products from r/electricvehicles

> You may think the cost difference between them is trivial, but it absolutely isn’t. The Tesla destination charger is only great for people using Teslas. I agree that Tesla offers quite the steal there, but it isn’t representative of the market.

Tesla to J1772, or charger with the J1772 end.

It costs as much to dig the ditch and rip out the wall for a 12 gauge 20A 240V. Your other points are correct if they have to drop more meters and put in more breaker boxes, though a $20 20A breaker doesn't cost much less than a $30, $50 not on sale, 100A breaker. The wire seems easy enough to calculate, 20amp 4.8kW would be around $0.49 a foot, 40amp 7.2kW is $1.05 a foot, and 100amp would be $4.95 a foot. Maybe aluminium 180amp for $1.35 a foot to a subpanel would make things cheaper for longer runs? Can you just turn aluminium into copper right before the charger, assuming the charger can't just use the aluminium?

> If a lot of hotels aren’t currently providing 19.2kW chargers, it’s for good reason.

According to plugshare, which I can't filter by max power, clicking around looks like 90% of HPWC at hotels support 16kW, some 6kW or 8kW. So your statement is correct, though these hotels aren't only 7.2kW either.

> EDIT: On second thought, I don’t think you even read my comment. You just responded to only the last paragraph like it was some kind of tl;dr. There was so much more nuance to that comment.

I did read it all but your 1MWh example was (an Appeal-to-Extremes)[https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/30/Appeal-to-Extremes] and didn't want to point it out. Still if you want to talk about it: 200kWh seems very likely for trucks and I would expect closer to 300kWh for a dually. Since 19.2kW is the limit of J1772 that is where I am getting the number from and to your point a 300kWh still wouldn't be able to charge from 10% to 100% but 50% charge is better than 19%. I think Semi will have 1-2MWh but I doubt we will see the J1772 plug on them except maybe to run living area stuff and bms. If Semi do support AC then they might use SAE J3068 3 phase 120A 277V so 57.5kW? but really even a 150kW supercharger might take 8hr+.

As for your comment about 3 decent 7.2kW vs 1 19kW I can't disagree there, why not have 4 19kW that can share 1 line that could very well cost less than 4 independent 7.2kW. I thought I showed that is possible at least for the price of the charger. You could still configure those same HPWC to 7.2kW and share to save a little money on wire and possibly the power provider needing the upgrade their lines. At that point though you might as well run a 20A 120v outlet to every spot to help keep batteries warm. Any hotel that doesn't have a charger I ask if I can use their light pole 120v, really helps prevent a cold soaked battery in the morning even if I only got ~20 miles of range on a 10F night.

Not sure how my comment has a lot of nuance to it, maybe since I had linked to that charger with J1772 like 3 times in other replies so far and thought it was common knowledge here that you can charge any car with an adapter I left those links out, sorry. I wan't trying to personally attack you, I am just giving my option with what I think will be best for all in the long term for overall cost and user experience. It is like I see a lot of USB-PD 5v 3A being installed because everyone is using cell phones but soon laptops are coming out and they will need to buy new 5A wires and adapters. I could be wrong and the statement about if it makes a difference where people stay one day is the speculation here. Interesting times ahead for sure, I can't wait.

I can only talk on the Volt side, and even then only a 2012. I bought it in 2015.

Most of my “complaints” about my car are things that have been fixed by the year of the model you are looking at. Except removing the pedestrian horn. That’s one of the best things ever.

The main things I would caution against depend on where you live and how big you are.

Where you live is because of battery life. I’m sure you know from your research that cold batteries have reduced range. My 35 mile range Volt drops down to a 20-22 range Volt in winter. So keep that in mind when doing distance calcs.

As for your size, I’m tall and fat and can fit into the Volt. Not as roomy as when I tried out a Bolt, but roomier than my old Prius. My size means there are two flaws with the Volt that won’t affect you if you are smaller.

Flaw 1: My Volt is a three person car, effectively. Between leg length and steering wheel in my gut, I need to move my seat back. This leaves no leg room for the hypothetical person behind me. So keep this in mind, your height and size depending, if you think you’ll need that fourth seat.

Flaw 2: The visibility at times is... eh... pretty good. Except at stop lights. Some lights have me stopping at points where I can’t see them without both bending my head and body to the side. A side effect of having my head almost hit the roof of the car and being slid back far. So I use something like this.

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Having gone from a Prius (“normal” hybrid) to a Volt, the biggest change is simply how it rides. If you like the quiet and feel of the electric driving of a hybrid then you are in luck. Manage your charge well and you get that feeling all the time.

One thing where the Volt is different from a Prius style hybrid is that the Volt is a serial hybrid vs a Prius style parallel hybrid.

Serial means it’ll act like an EV car until the battery “dies”. Then it’ll start using gas.

Parallel hybrids mean it’ll switch between gas and electric back and forth at will. Maybe not at a full charge, but before the battery “dies”.

While you can do that, I might share some additional thoughts:

• The EVSE link you provided will charge at a rate of only 16A, which is one-half the capability of your Clarity (and nearly all new cars). From a cost/labor perspective, I wouldn't bother pulling a new 20A circuit if the goal is to support EVs.
  
• Plugging and unplugging your EVSE daily (I'm assuming you'd have to do this so nobody steals it from the common parking lot) will put a lot of wear and tear on the NEMA 14-50R, so be sure to use a commercial receptacle ($75), not one of those cheap ones ($8) at the local big box store.
  
• For a wall-mount EVSE, a new, dedicated circuit is effectively the same material and labor cost no matter what attaches at the end of it, whether a ChargePoint device vs NEMA 14-50 all weather receptacle. If there is a pedestal or dual charger solution then, yes, there is more consideration for a concrete pad, etc. (And the ChargePoint requires a cellular control module, but that provides a huge benefit if the desire is a managed charging solution.)
  
  Of course, every garage and parking lot is different, so many of us can only speculate as to what is best for your particular case.

For GM it was a completely dollars and cents decision. As some have commented, it was related to the change in the ZEV mandate but, if they had been profitable or highly sought after, they would have kept them in production. In the end automakers are (or should be) fuel source agnostic. That said there was no vision for the future nor appetite for large investments for an uncertain ROI. That's why it is usually start-ups that change industries: Netflix, Amazon, and of course Tesla. High risk, high reward. Legacy companies want low risk, high reward.

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I sometimes think that we are better off that GM ended the EV1 program. Had they kept building an interesting but uninspiring, short range EV with a lead acid or NMH pack, would we have over 1M EVs in the US by now? It is a counterfactual that no one can answer.

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Recommending reading. I thoroughly enjoyed. The Car that Could

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Thanks to OP for posting.

I owned two. Last december, on a 55F day, I drove it 78.3 miles on a single charge. The last time I'd checked the battery with the Open Source Tool (I bought an assembled one for $75 from some guys on the Smart Car of America forum) it was at 95% health. I had to sell one for a bigger car recently. I towed with the one I sold quite frequently. I'd recommend the car to anyone. I've known 2 people out of ~6000 cars sold in the US that had issues. One is a friend of mine locally. First his ECU failed and was replaced under warranty around 44k miles. Most recently -- car has 58k miles I think -- the onboard AC charger has fried. He's trying to source a replacement (MB wants $4000 for the part), and he's now looking to see if his car was a CARB state car that has an extended warranty that would cover this or if he can repair it himself (He is an EE and unafraid to take it apart). I will own another one some day. I still see my little Gopher, almost weekly, he lives with friends of mine now. They love him as much as I do. They DO have a desiccant filter to keep humidity in the pack low that needs to be refilled with silica beads every 2 years. I made and published a 3D printable tool to change the filter, and I'm happy to ship a printed model to anyone for $12 in the US. DM me if interested or if you have more questions about the little car. Also, re: support. MB is contractually obligated to support it for 5 years after last model discontinuation (so 2024), and, the only thing special about it is the tiny tires. Any independent Mercedes shop should have a tire machine that can mount and balance its tires, that's who we use in Raleigh to service ours and do the brake flush every 2 years (recommended). The other consumables are wiper blades and a cabin filter, both of those and the desiccant filter can be changed in under 20 minutes in your driveway - no need for a lift.

Finally, something I can contribute to here. I recently bought Xiami M365 e-scooter (cost me 425€, here is Amazon link, not how I bought it). I think I have it for a month or two. I logged around 270 km so far. I use it from home to train station, then I use train to city I work in, and then from train station to work. Its something like 2.5 km in each city in each direction. Advantage is that it is relatively light and compact (12.5 kg and the handle folds). It goes up to 25 kmh, battery is specified as making 30 km if you are 75 kg person. It can only carry one person of up to 100 kg, but I believe that even heavier person can use it, especially if you change type of tires.

Now, my impressions, it is perfect for me. I can bring it both to my office, and to my apartment (elevator not working, still not too much hustle). I can bring charger with me anywhere to add some extra mileage from it. It can be stored in car trunk (I was able to put it in trunk of Opel Corsa D, rather small car), thou I would avoid this if it is too hot and sunny outside. It is on a cheaper side, so it does have some problems, but nothing too serious, especially if you are familiar with bikes (changing of tire and staff like that).

Also, now, my whole daily is electrified in a country that usually has 55% electricity generation from renewables, which is nice.

Video that I found to be fair review is this one.

Since I'm guessing you are from states, here are some conversions:

12.5 kg = 27.5 lbs

75 kg = 165 lbs

100 kg = 220 lbs

2.5 km = 1.5 mile

25 kmh = 15.5 mph

30 km = 18.5 miles

425 € = 480 $

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Glad to help!

One thing I forgot to mention: When I moved into my house we only had a 100a meter. So we had an electrician upgrade the meter and the breaker panel to 200a (it requires a permit and is definitely not a DIY job).

But you need to see what size meter or panel (whichever is smaller) is. Having a new EVSE pulling 30a for 3 or 4 hours on a 100a meter means the rest of your house only has access to 70a while your EV is charging when it used to be 100a. Which will make it more likely to trip your 100a main breaker (the big breaker at the top of the panel that cuts power to the whole house).

Just consider what circuits you already have, and what your peak power consumption might actually be. IE: A cooktop on high might draw 3.7kW. On a 240V circuit that's 3700 / 240 == ~16a. When in doubt round up. So if I have a tankless electric under-sink water-heater like a Rheem RTEX-13 that can pull 13kW (13000 / 240 == ~55a), then I'm right at the limit if I'm charging at 30a, have my cooktop on high and am running the hot water. If I start the dryer at the same time or the air-conditioner kicks in I'll probably trip the main breaker if I only have 100a service.

It's peak power you need to worry about. A cooktop on medium might pull 1.5kW to start, but after the pan is hot it's going to modulate the power and probably only sustain 500W or something. So it's not something you'll find out by dividing your utility bill's kWh by 30 days.

I know it sounds complicated. It's really not. Just spend a few days taking note of what things that use electricity come on and when, and take special notice of when that happens simultaneously. Then see what breakers those circuits are labelled for, and add up the numbers. You could totally make a 30a charger work in a 100a home, just like you can make a hair-dryer work in the bathroom. You just can't run multiple hair-dryers at the same time if all your bathrooms are on the same circuit. An even better idea would be a lower power charger though. The smaller 16A charger I use for my car will give me about 10 miles of range per hour of charging. There's never been a time an overnight charge wasn't enough at that rate. I've only used my wife's 30a charger a couple times when I went days without charging and then felt like going somewhere and realized I could use a little more juice.

If you do end up needing to replace the panel, I recommend buying yourself and shopping for an electrician to do a labor-only job. Most will throw out quotes around $1,500 to $3,000, but with a little shopping you can get a labor-only job done in my area, including the permit, for about $700.

The panel and all the breakers were probably about $500 all in.

I actually replaced the 40-space load-center I had installed back then with a 54-space one last month since I wanted to add some new circuits and it was out of space.

Man, the i3 has a much larger boot than I expected it to. I'll see if I can find a used 94AH model! Thanks for a great suggestion.

I think that as soon as they outgrow the size 0+ baby seat, I'll be moving on to a more compact car. I'm currently leaning towards this one, but if you have a suggestion, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks for the input!

I don't have a driveway, only street parking. My work has regular outlets in their garage so I charge there. Otherwise, I bought a 10guage 50' extension cord and run it from my backyard to the street to charge. Depends on your neighborhood of course, but mine is pretty safe.

Edit: oh sorry, didn't read the rest of your post. I'm not sure what my requirements are, pretty sure it's not legal to run the cord accros the sidewalk either. I did buy this to cover the cord on the sidewalk so that it is visible and allows wheelchairs/bikes to go over it without tripping people.

Right, 2700k. Those have been around for well over a decade. These days LEDs are just better than incandescents. Brightness ironically is one reason, you can get far brighter bulbs. Mostly useful for outdoor applications, but check this out: https://www.amazon.com/SANSI-Equivalent-Omni-Directional-Floodlight-Non-dimmable/dp/B07B8XHBP8

A 100w bulb is 1,600 lumens for reference, so this bulb would be over twice as bright.

The other nice thing is you can use them in enclosures designed for smaller wattage too.

Yes, When I had my EV I would drive under 50 miles almost every day.

Regarding the product i couldn't find a data sheet or specifications on your website.

That said from photos, and comments here, it appears to be a 5kWh external battery pack, able to be charged from a standard wall outlet (using a tiny wall wart), and with an integrated inverter powerful enough to run a factory volt EVSE (I assume something like 15A at 110V?)

Your website shows a slim female carrying the device with one hand, and you advertise the price as USD999. You state on reddit the current charge time from a wall outlet is 6 hours.

There are a few technical issues with the above that you really should look into.

Weight As an example, the chevy bolt battery pack holds 60kWh, and weights 440kg. Your pack is to be 12 times smaller, so weight will be at least 37 kg (prob more as packaging in a smaller pack will be less efficient. A 2kW inverter will be 5 - 8 kg, therefore your minimum weight will be 42 - 45kg's. No way your slim female is carrying that with one hand wearing heels.

Cost A 6.4kWh powerwall runs as USD3000. Your price is under a third of that, and you need to include an inverter & charger that will run to hundreds of dollars...

Wall Wart To charge in 6 hours, you will need to charge at 830Watts. I don't think any wall wart goes that high.

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Take a look at what is already on the market:

0.4kWh, 300W output battery bank for USD390, 12.36 pounds

Anker 0.4kWh, USD500, 9.36 pounds

1.1kWh, 1100W output, USD1,749, 20 pounds

You specs require something about 10 to 12 times the capacity / inverter power as the first two items, and about 5 times the capacity / inverter power of the last one.

As such I would expect you would need to price your device at around USD 6000, and expect it to weigh 100pounds (roughly 50kg).

With those numbers the proposal is a lot less attractive. 50kg's is very hard to move by hand, and $6000 is a lot of money to tie up in a battery bank. (I wouldn't want to leave that unattended as I charged during the day). Also that money would go a long way in terms of just buying a longer range EV in the first place (Price jump from a 30kWh Leaf to a 60kWh Chevy Bolt in the USA is $6000) and that buys you a 6x the additional range of your 5kWh power pack, with convenance to boot... (no charging car and power pack each night (just charge car), no lugging around heavy power pack. no need to change except at night (every second night) for your 40/ 50 mile days)...

Siemens VersiCharge is cheaper than the Juicebox Pro 40, will charge almost any non-Tesla EV at its full speed, is just a plug-in install (not hard wired) with a nice long cord and attractive design, and has a 3 year warranty from one of the best equipment manufacturers in the world. Made in California, USA. Amazon can have it on your doorstep tomorrow.

https://www.amazon.com/Siemens-US2-VersiCharge-Installation-Compatibility/dp/B00MFVI92S

I got one of these 7 months ago. Price on Amazon fluctuates, they have a warehouse used item for $386. I bought new for $409, seen it go as high as $440 or so. Also saw a Home Depot add for a refurbished unit for $379 recently.

The Siemens unit is 30Amp, some other units are 32A but considerably costlier. The 2A difference is probably just a couple of minutes with a PHEV, it charges my Bolt from 40-90% in 6 hours or less typically.

It is simple but reliable. It is rock solid and should last many years, so a used or refurb unit should be good as new.

Chances of sales on L2 EVSE are probably more likely around Earth Day than the holidays.

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Neat, I didn't know that! I was actually referring more to the transfer between the atmosphere, ocean, and rock. I don't know how much the advent of decomposition makes a difference. Any good resources to learn more?

I'm totally not a scientist, I just like to read about it. If anyone is so compelled, I highly recommend https://www.amazon.com/Universe-Within-Discovering-History-Planets/dp/0307378438

NEMA 14-50 is one type of plug commonly used for EV's, rated up to 50 amps. Looks like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-279-Receptacle-Industrial-Grounding/dp/B00009W3AA/ref=asc_df_B00009W3AA/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198089608681&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16570288418637110563&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032168&hvtargid=pla-357917644205&psc=1

There are other 240 V plug types too. For example, here's a 30-amp rated variety:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-30-Amp-125-250-Volt-Black-Indoor-Round-Wall-Dryer-Power-Outlet/3775477?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA-_-RoughPlumbingElectrical-_-WiringDevices-_-3775477:Utilitech&CAWELAID=&kpid=3775477&CAGPSPN=pla&store_code=2842&k_clickID=1738a1cb-ecda-4ae2-ab8c-92e4d9e66678&gclid=CjwKCAjw0oveBRAmEiwAzf6_rMEamS_g0FUQVn0Ab7_8o_9ioCAqVKn0_PeesKxkZNWaTW5bjbFJzhoCAUoQAvD_BwE

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You'll definitely need to lug the cable around in your car, unless you can leave it at work. But as \u\ChalupaCabre mentioned, there are some fairly cheap ones you can buy, such that you'll have two.

Same link, but with Amazon SMILE


Costs you nothing to use Amazon Smile but gives so much.


Here's an extension to have it always convert your amazon.com to smile.amazon.com

> I think you'll agree that things like hydrogen from coal should be avoided and methods like solar hydrolysis should be the primary if not the only method of producing hydrogen

That's the only kind of H2 I've ever supported, thanks to this book: Solar Hydrogen- the fuel of the future and this video: Who's killing the Hydrogen Car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3GDjVskYIs

Thanks! Does this one work too?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DJ1MZGS/?coliid=I17QXLHRUA8TKM&colid=1WOB6NSFU3EV6&psc=1&ref\_=lv\_ov\_lig\_dp\_it](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DJ1MZGS/?coliid=I17QXLHRUA8TKM&colid=1WOB6NSFU3EV6&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

It is fully connected Smart EVSE with V2G capability - the specs are on the amazon page https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07T32RMJ2?fbclid=IwAR2SHHayTJtbIEqRpTk2MV3kpKUxsvNrSrh_PAZ5TtvXXyDs6YkcATWl0bk

>only toyota is really doing commercial hydrogen

And Hyundai, Honda, Mercedes, Nikola Motor and most importantly China. More FCV's will be sold in the next 5 years in China than the rest of the world combined. You should ask yourself why the hydrogen news from China isn't being talked about.

Solar Hydrogen: The Fuel Of The Future <--- the authors had it figured out long ago

Siemens 30Amp EVSE, NEMA 6-50 plug, $475 on Amazon

I've seen it for $390 at Costco.