(Part 2) Best products from r/exchristian

Let me first say this: you are an amazing and incredibly courageous woman! There are two things I have found to be the most important in life. A life without them is one stripped of its humanity and flavor. Indeed, people have died for them, fought for them and spent countless lifetimes seeking them;and rightly so for they are freedom and truth. I left my religion because I would not be a slave to any man, clergy or capricious deity. I left because I would not rest my entire existence on an iron age book that was obviously a lie. I valued my freedom and my quest for truth more than the love that my family had for me, more than my friends and my security. For finding the strength, the courage and above all the love of humanity to do the same...I want you to know that you deserve respect.

I can definitely sympathize with the non-christian culture problem. Think about it this way: you are on a great adventure. For the first time in your life, you have been given the chance to discover what it truly means to be YOU (free of cavemen superstitions and guilt of being human). As hardcore Christians we were taught that everything about us is just that-christian. That is not true! We still have our own personal preferences, personalities and tastes. The mistake that people make is to assume that, because they are no longer Christians, they are sorority material and going clubbing every weekend is their cup of tea. So be yourself, surround yourself with people who will love you for it and most importantly: don't be afraid to tell your story. Stories are the foundation of identity and having one is essential to being human. The next time you are completely lost in a conversation, don't be scared to say why. Doing so will not only help the other person connect with you on a deeper level, it will also help you gain more self acceptance. Sure, maybe the sexy quarterback won't want you anymore. But do you really want people in your life who would turn their backs on you, if only they knew ye? Don't worry about it too much though. In time, you will be surprised by how much of a non-christian you have become.

Your mother may no longer be with you but she lives on through your memories and her legacy to the family she cherished and to the world she lived in. I think it is more respectful and humane to celebrate who she was and what she accomplished than to constantly spend that time feeding the false hope of seeing her again. I am sorry if I sound too rude but I could not find a better way to say it. When all the chips are down, your family may no longer want you. I can feel the pain that brings as I write this. However, its would be their loss and not yours. You can surround your life with people who love you and support you despite not being blood relatives-isn't that what family is all about? And should you feel so inclined, you can make your own family and have children that you will "love no matter what (parenting 101)".

Lastly, you do not need to worry about burning in hell, trust me. Better still, don't trust me and pick up three books I strongly recommend: [Godless] (http://www.amazon.com/Godless-Evangelical-Preacher-Americas-Atheists/dp/1569756775) ,[Letter to a christian nation] (http://www.amazon.com/Letter-Christian-Nation-Sam-Harris/dp/0307278778/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427723744&sr=1-1&keywords=letter+to+a+christian+nation) and [God is not great] (http://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446697966/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427723824&sr=1-1&keywords=god+is+not+great) . Before you do that ask yourself: if you went to heaven, would you trust yourself to have a good time knowing that good people are being tortured FOREVER? Why? Because they didn't believe in a god that did everything he could to hide from us. Or maybe they mistakenly believed in the wrong one?

As for my story. Well, I was raised in a christian fundamentalist cult. Being LGBT certainly didn't help and all in all, it would probably make you cry. You don't need to cry right now, you need to be happy because from now on you will forever be free of the superstitions of ancient cavemen (85% of the world still isn't). You are free to own your own mind, your body and your soul -just kidding, nobody has one-you are truly free (pause a moment and realize what that means) and the prototype for the next step in the evolution of the homo sapiens mindset. I am sure there are far more cheerful stories here on Reddit.

Indoctrination of children is one of the things that annoys me the most. Not only because it happened to me, but because it's part of evangelists' strategy to stop the decline of Christianity: the 4/14 window.

If it's not your own kids, there's not much you can do, unfortunately. But here are some thoughts:

• Spend time with them and build trust
  
• Avoid telling them outright what or what not to believe.
  
• Get them interested in science as much as possible. Maybe steer away from evolution for the moment (but nothing stops you talking about it if they bring it up). Nurture their curiosity about the sun, the stars, animals... Basic astronomy and basic biology.
  
• This is trickier, but let them realize that some people aren't Christian and that's OK too. For example, in October, you could talk to them about Diwali : "You know, at this time of year in India, people put out rows of candles outside!" If the kids ask why, you can give them a reply, like: "To celebrate the victory of good over evil." You don't need to go any further, but they'll know that people of other faiths (and no faiths) also have rituals, celebrations to celebrate similar concepts.
  
• For great practical ideas (conversation starters, easy to do science experiments, etc) I found the book Raising Freethinkers really helpful.
  
  Good luck! :)

Only you know your situation, but in your position I'd be having a discussion first with my spouse about why they're requiring me to tell the kids. At the least it seems you should be clear on that, and the answer may help you decide how to approach this.

When you do tell your kids, I think the most important thing is to invite them to ask any questions they have, either then or later on. Make it a discussion (and an ongoing discussion) rather than a declaration, and answer their questions clearly, honestly and in detail. In the longer term you may also want to check out Street Epistemology -- it's a great way to talk to kids in particular, because you'll be encouraging them to think about things for themselves.

Finally, you might want to check out The Book of Gods and/or The Belief Book by David G. McAfee, which are intended to help kids understand that many people believe different things about gods.

Good luck, and please let us know how it goes.

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles with physical issues as well as these intense questions about what, if anything, we should believe about the supernatural. If you've been raised with these ideas and fears, it can be hard enough to grapple with them with a mind at rest, let alone when under stress and possibly in pain.

The way I like to picture this scenario is that I'm walking into a casino with a big handful of chips. Each chip is a day of my life, my attention. It's the only real currency I have.

I'm surrounded by tables with dealers. Each of them is yelling "come, play at my table! Sure win over here! Big penalty for not playing!"

It sounds like you've spent a lot of time at the Christian table, and you're starting to see that you're putting chips in and it hasn't paid off yet. And you're starting to think it never will.

The thing is, the casino is full of tables. Yeah, there's a risk from walking away from the one you're at, but there's a huge risk that you've been sitting at the wrong table all along. And, when you have the perspective of just how many tables there are, you might think being in the casino in the first place is a bad idea.

The other thing I think about is how you're playing the game. This Christian game is a tricky one. (Well, there's lots of Christian Games, in the one I used to play, they didn't even believe in hell.) In some versions of the game, if you ever played it, you'll win when you die. (Once Saved Always Saved!) In others, you've got to be a faith 1%-er to make the cut. (Many are called and few are chosen! Narrow is the way that leads to life eternal! When the Son of Man returns, shall he find any faithful?) Coming to the table out of a desire for self preservation might disqualify you, too. In some games the rule is you only get saved if you really love, and want to glorify God, more than yourself.

It's not just a matter of playing at all.

1. You've got to pick the right game, assuming any of them are true. (And that's a big-ass assumption.) And it's not just a choice amongst the biggies -- let alone Islam, Scientology, Jainism, Buddhism, etc -- there are 50,000 denominations of Christian, and most of them think the others aren't right with God.
   
2. You've got to play it the right way.
   
   Picture yourself being born in what's now called Iran, 500 years ago. What would you believe? What would you be afraid of? Probably not a Christian Hell. These fears you have are an accident of birth.
   
   As much as that rationality thing falls down in the face of fear, if you keep reading, thinking, learning, the fear will start to go. You might try and find some face-to-face people to meet with (meetup.com or other such sites.)
   
   Also, you might try finding another way of thinking about these issues that's positive, above and beyond just "not-god." I found A Guide To The Good Life, the Ancient Art of Stoic Joy tremendously helpful, and have since continued to find the modern reboot of stoicism (/r/stoicism has lots of good links and references) to help every day.
   
   I don't know if that will help at all, I hope it doesn't make it worse.

> He is a very intelligent guy and the intellectual anguish caused by Christianity's incoherence and emptiness practically radiates from him.

Sometimes they are trapped with apparently no marketable skills or experience to get a new job outside the bubble. This isn't for everyone, but for those it suits:

A couple of books worth reading:

1. How to Develop and Promote Successful Seminars and Workshops: The Definitive Guide to Creating and Marketing Seminars, Workshops, Classes, and Conferences 1st Edition by Howard L. Shenson
   
   
2. How to Run Seminars and Workshops: Presentation Skills for Consultants, Trainers, and Teachers 1st Edition by Robert L. Jolles
   
   You can buy them for not much more than shipping costs or try your local library.
   
   Shenson tells you how to be profitable. Jolles tells you how to be a successful trainer.
   
   Source: I've worked with the best training materials, mediocre stuff, and at a school which was so poor it was barely more than a fraud.

Books for laymen I would say are New World Faiths by Jon Butler. Butler's book is super digestible, not very long, and very comprehensive. He does a fantastic job of discussing and explaining what religion looked like as it went through a transformative process during American colonial history.

There are two more books, both academic, but both should be digestible for non-historians:

Awash in a Sea of Faith: Christianizing the American People by Jon Butler


The Democratization of American Christianity by Nathan O. Hatch.

(I strongly recommend starting with Butler because it's easier to read and it discusses movements that came before the movements in Hatch's book.)

Both of these books rocked the entire historical climate for people who study religion in American History. Butler's book makes several important claims, first that early American history is not nearly as religious as people believed it was (he has ample evidence to prove this point). He also explains that later generations, particularly those of the early 19th century, re-wrote the American narrative to try and make the 18th century seem much more religious than it was.

Hatch's book is arguably the most important academic book written about the study of America's history with religion. Focusing mostly on events of the early 19th century, which he asserts did more to "christianize" the American people than any other period in American or colonial history. He focuses on the transformations of five major sects (nondenominational Christians, Baptists, Methodists, African-American preachers and churches, and Mormons) and shows what happened to them during this period that permanently altered their course moving forward.

Please feel free to reach out to me and ask any questions you have in regards to anything you read on there. I am always willing and eager to discuss this stuff.

Thanks for the feedback and thoughtful reply! "Condemns most" refers to several indications that the (currently) 2/3rds of the world that does not believe in Jesus will be lost.

 

I do think it's a position reasonably supported by the text. Not that I agree -- I find it morally reprehensible that any "good pagans" and/or the vast billions raised without much exposure to Christianity would be lost due to being born in the wrong place/time. William Lane Craig, a leading apologist, has written a thoroughly repulsive response on the topic: God already knew they'd be lost, so he put them in those places -- and, he says, for all we know, the ratio of saved-to-lost is is perfectly optimal. Ugh!

 

To your point, I'd have a hard time agreeing that Mk 9:40 and Lk 9:50 "whoever is not against us is for us" indicates Jesus believed people could be saved without him. For starters, he contradicts this in Mt 12:30 and Lk 11:23 "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters." In context though, both seem to refer to doing miraculous works (casting out demons) and aren't discussing how to be saved at all.

 

In addition, there are ample NT verses saying Jesus saw himself as the only way to be saved:

• Jn 3:18 and Mk 16:16 "whoever believes in Him will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned"
  
• Jn 14:4 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
  
• Jn 3:36 "whoever does not obey Him does not have life; the wrath of God remains on him"
  
• Mt 7:21-23 "And they will say 'Lord, did we not do many mighty works in your name?' And I will declare 'Depart from me; I never knew you, you workers of lawlessness'"
  
• Mt 7:13-14 "the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. The gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."
  
• Acts 4:12 "there is salvation in no one else; there is no other name given among men by which we must be saved"
  
• Jn 17:3 "and this is eternal life: that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent"
  
• Rm 3:22-23 "The righteousness of God is through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. There is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"
  
   
  
  Many contradictory religions claim exclusivity. If Christianity let go of the idea of needing Jesus to be saved, it's a slippery slope to not needing him for anything -- just be a decent person and live your life. But in holding onto the need for Jesus, it ran headlong into another huge problem: if it's all about "accepting God's free gift of love", then a serial rapist can accept Jesus and be fully saved on death row, while a lifelong moral non-theist will go to hell for not accepting the gift. This completely devalues any of our actions and puts all the emphasis on "believing on bad evidence" instead of what you actually do with your life.
  
   
  
  It's all a moot point, however -- as it's likely "Jesus", if he existed, never said most of the things attributed to him, and some epistles attributed to Paul were written pseudonymously also. The whole idea of a "final judgment" wasn't from the Old Testament (which focused largely on earthly kings and national victories); rather, it was borrowed from Zoroastrianism eschatology during Babylonian/Persian captivity, which is around the time the Jews rewrote their national history to better fit their unfortunate circumstances, leading to inclusion in Jewish inter-testamental scripture such as the Book of Enoch, which was accepted as scripture for hundreds of years and was quoted by and influenced the thinking of New Testament writers who were making all this stuff up at the time.
  
   
  
  So, yeah -- who cares what Jesus said anyway, it's a lousy plan that wasn't even original! :-)

The actual purpose of the tree of life, the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and humans in the garden of Eden.

1. The snake is just a snake. It's never mentioned that it was Satan, anywhere in the Bible. Theologians went through some great lengths to conclude that The Lucifer and King of Babylon passages in the Bible were talking about Satan. The idea is terribly convoluted and a lot of the details (armor of jewels, admired and respected in the garden of Eden and so on) are ignored.
   
   
2. The reason humans were made. We were to tend to the garden. Nothing else. It's says it directly in Genesis 2. There's plenty of mythology from that era that describes the creation of life out of mud (golems). It's a great part of ancient Jewish mythology and that region in general.
   
   
3. Genesis specifically says that the tree of life is used to make sure that the animals and man live forever. It's a fountain of youth. Plenty of myth surrounding items that do just this.
   
   
4. Genesis also says that the forbidden tree is the food for the gods, in this case, the god in Genesis 2 (different from the god in Genesis 1). It is meant for the superior beings. The creators.
   
   Put all these things together, and what you have is a classic myth with your typical "servant takes from the master and gets into deep shit" plot.
   
   So Yaweh creates a garden. Calls it Eden. It's not the world, because Genesis 2 tells us exactly what land on earth it covered, which was somewhere around where Iraq currently is. He makes man, specifically so that he can tend to his brand new garden that he's making. Then he starts churning all these animals out from the ground, and Adam is naming them as they come out from the mud. Yaweh then realizes that Adam needs a helper, so he makes him one.
   
   Then the part that we all were frequently reminded about happens (snake, tree, Eve, Adam, fig tree loincloths, etc.) but here is the best part:
   
   Gen 2: 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
   
   Two things here: First, the snake wasn't lying. Adam and Eve did become like gods. Second, the fruit on the tree of life sustains the gods, as is indicative by the very words of Yaweh himself.
   
   So a quick summary of the whole second and third chapter: Yaweh made a garden for himself to hang out. The tree of life kept his minion gardeners (man and woman) alive for as long as he wanted to maintain his weekend getaway, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil was Yaweh's tree to eat from. It wasn't put there to give us some freedom of choice as we so frequently hear about. So the minions decide to eat what the gods eat and they are kicked out, doomed to fade into nothing. To turn into the dust they once were (or I guess specifically what Adam was. It never really tells what happens to Even except for wanting to have a man and having painful births). Also notice that there's no mention of hell. The story was written long before hell was even a concept in early Jewish beliefs. The only people that actually lived forever where those that were taken up by Yaweh in a chariot to chill with him. The rest of us just stop existing.
   
   This, and the rise of dualism during the Babylonian Exile are my two favorite things to discuss with Christians, if I ever have the chance. I also find the Documentary Hypothesis to be extremely fascinating. I recommend checking out Who Wrote the Bible if you get a chance. It actually makes the Bible fascinating, for a change.

Just look at my post history. I tend to be very redundant.

However, in order of light to heavy:

• Dallas UU's sermon called Unitarian Universalism 101
  
• Jesuswordsonly.com is a guy who rejects Paul but keeps Jesus.
  
• The Jesusneverexisted.com page on Paul, specifically at Athens (upper right corner has site map, also the articles sorted by time and start at the beginning of it all)
  
• The Natufians, google them.
  
• PBS Eons on Youtube, in case you were kept away from Natural History during your education by people who would call any natural history "evolution" even if it's geology. PBS Spacetime is also neat, but eh, not really my thing.
  
• Rabbi Tobias Singer on Youtube.
  
• And now the books, which are a little heavy:
  
• It Aint Necessarily So by Matthew Sturgis (pow who only had a bible for six years and when he got out wanted to see some of the sites, oof)
  
• Did Moses Exist by Murdock (which is free if you have Kindle Unlimited)
  
• Getting heavier: https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/did-jesus-exist/
  
• http://www.humantruth.info/souls.html which is poorly written, but it's shorter and actually less poorly written than "The Soul Fallacy" which I have an actual paper copy of and I'll probably never finish it. It feels like I should be proofreading it. And it's not even self published.
  
• All the rest of the stuff at Jesusneverexisted.com
  
• The Skeptics Annotated Bible
  
  Good luck in your search for the truth.

There's many many contradictions in the Bible, for example right away there's the start of Genesis, two different creation accounts, two different flood accounts, if you read the NT side by side, it agrees on almost nothing about Jesus' life or death. These are just off the top of my head, but you can go through (probably) all of it here.

You might want to hop over to /r/AcademicBiblical, or specifically, their wiki for some interesting in-depth questions and answers. You can also ask them about stuff that's not clear to you, just keep it non-religion, they deal with history of and texts about religion, not beliefs and feelings. They are good for when you don't believe something was translated correctly or stuff like that though.

If you want books, The Bible Unearthed will tear the whole OT pretty much to pieces. For NT, read something from Bart Ehrman, and the Jesus Wars, which is shamelessly entertaining Game of Thrones style description on how people decided what the Bible will be like. Ikr, I wasn't expecting it to be entertaining either.

That's likely not your problem though. The Demon Haunted World suggested below will definitely help with vague bad feelings of "what if", also good for when you watched a particularly disturbing horror movie and are now carrying a gun and holy water everywhere. It's in big part about UFOs though, lol.

You might want to read up on other religions, current or dead ones, or cults and the like. It helps put Christianity into perspective, when you see that while it's huge today, people are/were just as convinced about other ones, to the point where they sacrificed their own children (Abraham, anyone?) to gods. I mean, stuff like this.

But first and foremost, find a therapist. If you have some mental health issues, even if you find definite proof of Christianity being false, you'll just find something else to stress about.

>And from our perspective, fear should never be a part of love but maybe in God’s fucked up world somehow it is.

That's how I started my own deconversion, when reading the Bible for the first time for Confirmation. By the time I got to the church, I was pretty much a Satanist, still believing God existed, but also that he was evil, and so we should join the other side for some chance of defeating him. Took me a few years to realize the whole thing was just mythology with a compelling story but no better proof of being true than Harry Potter. I never was so anxious about it though.

I would echo the other commenters' advice about keeping your sanity and surviving the next few years.

My addition to this discussion is book recommendations. If you want to learn more about evolution, check out the books Why Evolution Is True by Jerry Coyne, The Greatest Show On Earth: The Evidence for Evolution by Richard Dawkins, and Your Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5 Billion Year History of the Human Body by Neil Shubin.

Reading these books will pretty much inoculate you against creationist bullshit (pardon the vaccination pun), and give you a great foundation in understanding one of the most basic facts of science --- evolution.

We all wish you the best as you navigate these difficult years. Please use this sub as much as you need! :)

I highly recommend reading Greta Christina's book Coming Out Atheist: How to Do It, How to Help Each Other, and Why. She's compiled many coming out stories and has a lot of advice about how to come out to people. There's a chapter on how to come out to your spouse.

I also recommend reading Dale McGowan's In Faith and In Doubt: How Religious Believers and Nonbelievers Can Create Strong Marriages and Loving Families. As the title implies, it has advice on how a religiously mixed couple (one religious and the other not) can have a wonderful relationship and raise kid together without seeing eye-to-eye on the supernatural. Like Christina did in her book, McGowan interviewed a lot of people and the book is a compilation of the tips and tricks people have learned.

Yeah I’ve been to that site. A great resource! For me, it started with 2 things.

1. Clicked on a tweet from Dawkins and Gervais that said something interesting. I was really curious to listen to the “other side”. I thought about the fact that that there are people out there who believe the exact opposite as me. They said, “how lucky for you to be born in the right place to believe in the right thing”. That affected me. I thought about people born in the west. Their beliefs. We’re they wrong? Could they change my mind? Should I change theirs?
   
   
2. A couple of recent tragedies. A suicide of the son of a close friend and a young 21 year old girl dying in the hospital. I heard that her family were circled around her praying and singing How Great Is Our God. She died that night. I thought, if the whole point is converting people, wasn’t that a missed opportunity? And just life, you know? The access to information and science. I could no longer believe in a creation story or miracles.
   
   I started reading Why I Became An Atheist , researching and taking the blinders off. Really explored questions in the past I would just shrug off. It would eventually lead me to being an atheist during Easter! I had to preach what I no longer believed. That struggle was tearing me apart. You got to realize, my whole life, paycheck, everything was wrapped in my faith.
   
   It was recently that I resigned my position to pursue a business I started. It’s scary and I no longer have the certainty, which as you know is comforting. Especially in tragedy.
   
   I have found peace in a different kind of faith. One that is fully inclusive, celebrates humanism, love and life. I don’t hate the Bible or Christians. I see it all very differently. I’m in a better place now. Thanks for asking! There’s so much more, over a years worth of journeying.

First of all, recognize what fundamentalists already know: conversions/de-conversions don't happen over night. It takes a long time to change someone's mind.

With that in mind, keep pushing her towards critical thinking.

• If God loves everyone, why was he a mass murderer in the Old Testament?
  
• If preaching is all that is needed to change people's hearts in the New Testament, why didn't he have the Jews preach to people instead of killing them?
  
• If the Bible is divinely inspired, how does it get the creation account so wrong?
  
• Why is the Bible at odds with archaeology?
  
• How can you say that God loves us all when his laws condone slavery and misogyny?
  
  It really depends on how deep she wants to get into it. The average Christian does not wrestle with these questions, they just stick them in a mental file called, "To Be Answered At A Later Date". When that file gets too fat, then they start re-evaluating things.
  
  Best book I can think of would be Godless by Dan Barker. I think it's a great book for the average Christian because he really unpacks the evangelical/pentecostal experience.
  
  The main thing is to just be patient with her, and give her room to explore ideas on her own.

A resource to check out would be the clergy project: http://clergyproject.org/

It's for pastors and ministers that lose their faith. You might not be a pastor, but it sounds like you are similarly an ex-christian employed by a church, and face essentially all of the same challenges.

I don't know where you live, so I can't recommend local places to meet people in a similar position, but it's worth doing some googling to see if there are any atheist or ex-christian groups in your area. You might be surprised how many closet atheists there are in the bible belt.

All I can say is be careful. You don't want to get accidentally outed before you're ready. However, when you are ready, I highly recommend the book Coming out Atheist: https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Out-Atheist-Help-Other/dp/1939578191

Edit: and if you just want someone to talk to, PM me and I'll give my contact info.

I agree, to an extent. OP is going about it the wrong way. I don't know if I'd say there's no value in trying to get friends and family to see reason, though.

To OP (/u/VirusMaster3072), I'd recommend reading A Manual for Creating Atheists. It's not perfect, but the strategies it lays out make for a better foundation for discussing religious topics with people of faith. Going back and forth each saying "I'm right" isn't all that productive. The best approach, though the hardest, is through patience and carefully constructed questions. This book lays out very practical strategies for achieving that.

The alternative is nothing more than digging yourselves further into your own ditches until you're so entrenched you can no longer see eye-to-eye.

Some books that have been often mentioned as good introductory texts about evolution for the layman:

Why Evolution Is True by Jerry Coyne

The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins

Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin


Websites with general information:

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/ (old site: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/)


The folks at /r/evolution might be interested in giving their view, too if you have any specific questions.


You could also look into the biology curriculum of your college and check out the introductory biology courses you will soon be taking, and buy in advance the textbook(s) that deal with evolution.

I'm in a similar situation, stuck in the midst of huge discussions about your faith with the parents. Fortunately I've been able to get mine to do it over e-mail so I have time to think. I'd be totally overwhelmed doing this in person. I feel for you.

I would avoid tackling each individual issue. You will lose these battles even if you make the better case. Instead, ask questions. Specifically, "how do you know?" Every time they make a truth claim about anything, get them to explain how they know it's true. If it comes back to faith, you know they're out of ideas.

Grab a copy of this (though I can't recommend you hand it directly to your folks unless you want to start a fight!)

Thank you!

Not sure if Judaism is any better than Christianity tho lol.

I suppose I can think of some tips. Number one is just know your stuff well, before you try to talk about it. Read a lot of material. Read about what you believe. Read an apologetics book -- maybe read the one I mentioned, or watch this atheist's deconstruction of those arguments. That video series in particular was very helpful to me.

2. Practice online in a low-risk environment before you try it out loud. The downside of talking about faith online is nobody listens to you and you're likely to get called nasty names. The upside is that you don't give a shit what these people think about you, and you have time to think about your responses, and you don't have to contend with body language. In an in-person discussion it can be hard to think on your feet; if you've already thought through these arguments, you can recognize them and know what to say. And when humans speak in person, a large percentage of our total communication comes from body language, not just words. If this person you talk to is very confident, strong-willed, forceful, that comes across in his body language. You can feel intimidated or unsure even if you are very sure of yourself intellectually, just because of that fact.

3. Maybe write a blog. It doesn't have to be a really good one. I wrote a blog for a while; maybe 20 people read it, and I didn't keep up with it later. But it was so helpful for me to get my ideas down on paper, in coherent form, to see how they work.

4. Read Greta Christina's Coming Out Atheist. This has a lot of tips for people like us. One of those is...

5. Know why you are having this conversation. Are you doing it to explain your position to a person you care about? Then remember that the relationship is important to you, not just scoring rhetorical points. Also remember to remind the other person that the relationship is important. Before I said, "I don't believe in God," this pastor was asking me about myself and trying to get to know me. After I said those evil words, he switched to Apologetics Mode, just listing off arguments he'd heard before. So think about why you want to do this. Are you doing it to prove yourself? Are you doing it to normalize your beliefs? Are you doing this for the benefit of other people who will hear?

6. I'm not sure whether or not "taking him down a peg" is a good goal or not. If you mean, just to show that not everybody agrees with him, then sure. But if you think you'll make him look foolish or see that his beliefs are wrong, don't bother. People have remarkable strength when it comes to defending their core beliefs, no matter how irrational they may seem to us.

I see others on this forum agree with me, that the pastor's "Sunriss prove God" argument was a bad argument--but he didn't see it as a bad argument. In fact, he may have thought he 'won' that discussion. Likewise, when he threatened me with hell, I tried to point out to him how that made no sense but he literally just didn't get it. I see Pascal's Wager as a bad argument; but after he used it on me, he thought he had made a great point.

And from the way he smiled, I feel like he thought he was winning. I wasn't able to hold his gaze; he would make eye contact with me with this intense stare where I eventually felt like I had to look down; and when he saw me do that he smiled, as if I was showing weakness and he was defeating the evil atheist with his JesusPowers.

So I think I made some good points in what I said to him, I think I answered some of his questions, but I don't know how he sees the interaction; I suspect he thinks he 'destroyed' me.

Keep reading, keep writing; read arguments, argue yourself, journal and blog. Argue with people when you want to, and shake the dust off your feet and leave them alone when you want to. Good luck!

I've become rather obsessed with deconversion narratives recently

Why I became an Atheist

Deconverted FYI I recommend the audiobook

Godless

Farewell to God

I read the book Raising Freethinkers and it helped me feel more comfortable about how to raise kids in a secular manner. My experience was fundamentalist indoctrination. It talks about how to talk to kids about religion without telling them what to think.

I see two options here:

He's already admitted that he's unwilling to change his mind and that his faith is more important than truth. He could be telling the truth, which would mean you're wasting your time, or, it's just his mental conditioning coming out and subconsciously some of the stuff is getting through and making him uncomfortable. You need to determine which is the case.

If you want to try to get through to him then I would suggest getting this book. I would also suggest subscribing to a YouTube user called Anthony Magnabosco who puts the books techniques into practice on the street. The book focuses more on epistemology, so you won't have to teach anyone science or formal logic. The book show you how to make people cast doubt on what they think they know (when they actually don't). Once people have doubts then it's usually the beginning of the end for faith.

Mark S Smith - The Early History of God
(warning - a bit more scholarly than the other more populist books below)

https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X

Avigdor Shinan - From Gods to God

https://www.amazon.com/Gods-God-Debunked-Suppressed-Changed/dp/0827609086

The Bible Unearthed - Israel Finkelstein

https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136

Who Wrote the Bible, and The Exodus - Richard Friedman

https://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353

https://www.amazon.com/Exodus-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0062565249

I Recommend Your Inner Fish

Dan Barker's Godless

http://www.amazon.com/The-Belief-Book-David-McAfee/dp/1908675314

Check this out

https://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353/

https://www.amazon.com/Sources-Revealed-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/006073065X/

https://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563/

The Water's Edge

Your Inner Fish