(Part 2) Best products from r/exjw

Please do not interpret what i'm about to say as me being an asshole (although I often have been accused as such). I'm trying to help, rather than bullshit you with the equivalent of a participation trophy or a motherly pat on the back.

I'm stating this with love (although it is tough love): If I've ever seen someone that needs r/TheRedPill, its you my friend. I'm not saying that you should become an asshole or be disrespectful to women, but rather that you should focus on building yourself up in the same style. There is absolutely the capacity to be an alpha male within you. And that's what women will find attractive consistently. I'm not saying you should become a macho chump poser that demeans and disrespects women (that's not what a real alpha male does anyway), but rather that you should identify and adopt the characteristics of an alpha male that women find attractive and craft your own new persona. Root out the JW mindset and adopt a new one. Got me?

Its time to work on yourself rather than working on trying to get laid. Its time to grow a pair of balls. Now, rather than simply saying "grow a pair of balls", let me try to help and give some recommendations of how you might go about doing that.

Get a gym membership (maybe check and see if your university has one that you can use free), and try the Starting Strength program. See here: https://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-Basic-Barbell-Training/dp/0982522738/

Starting strength will make a man out of you. One tip: Don't use the smith machine. Use a real squat rack. Yes, its required. Yes, with barbells.

Read this book too, its a real eye opener for reading people (including women): https://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Book-Body-Language-Expressions/dp/0553804723/

Read up on affirmations, how to make them and use them, and start using them DAILY, maybe even more often than once a day. You probably don't need a book to research this, a simple google search will do. Harness the power of positive self-talk.

The words you say to yourself in your head or mutter to yourself quietly when nobody else is listening have a huge effect on how you view yourself. And by extension, others (especially women) can sense how much value you perceive that you have, and often will treat you in accord with that value you project.

>My date was kind of rude as she actually took a phone call from her male friend within the first 10-20 minutes of the date, I think she was even flipping through Tinder as we were talking.

This should have been an early warning signal letting you know that she wasn't worth your time. She didn't value your time and presence (and that is likely because you didn't establish your own value to her).

>Of course my problems only make me feel worse as one of my roommates is like extremely fit black young Hugh Hefner. This guy fucks all the time, like weekly.

That is fucking hilarious lol, but I really sympathize with you. I'm sure its torture that he's getting laid every night and you have to listen to the fucking. Is this guy friendly towards you? Is he willing to help with your issues? You never know, he may take some pity on you and help you to work on yourself a bit. Even if he isn't, pay attention closely to his attitudes and interactions with women and with others wherever you can. Don't try to be an exact copy of him, but watch for attitudes, words, and actions that he manifests that feel right for you, and that you could adopt into your own new persona.

>I feel especially shitty as "technically" I'm not a virgin because I fucked who I thought was going to be a women through MeetMe, but it turned out to be a transgender dude, my fault I guess as further inspection of the photos made it more obvious. I was going to leave but I was persuaded by an offer of a blowjob. I figured this was the first time I was offered anything sexual and I was under a lot of family related stress at the time so I said fuck it and got a BJ, and had to reciprocate him in the backside.

This is some 4chan shit right here, so allow me to present the appropriate meme: http://www.lememe.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/55556666.png

Don't beat yourself up too bad. Its behind you, and you never have to do this again if this type of hook up is not your style.

>So apparently finding a dude that wants to fuck is incredibly easy, finding a women in my case is like hunting for the holy fucking grail.

Yes, that's the honest to god truth when you don't project enough value to others. The only people you attract are people who are as desperate as you are.

>Don't get me wrong that all I want is sex, yes sex would be awesome, but I'm not afraid to be in a relationship, but at the same time I'm not going to turn down a hookup.

This screams desperation. You need to drop this mindset immediately. (Again, affirmations will help with this)

>My philosophy is just honoring whatever dating arrangement I agree to with a person, I have no religious reasons.

Again, desperation, compliance, submission. These traits will not attract women - at least not desirable ones.

>I tried talking to some women at parties, asked one to dance and she said no, even though she was standing against the wall not doing anything...

Again, you projected a lack of value, she judged you on the surface because of the lack of value you projected, and shut you down.

>...asked another how she was doing and she said good and that was it, and I had a little more luck at my last party as I got to help a girl with her Microsoft Access homework, we high-fived and were both wasted. I asked her if she was single and she said yes, but that she was just visiting and was going back home in a couple of days, so I just shook her hand and said it was nice we met.

That didn't mean she wasn't DTF my friend. She may have just been waiting for you to move on her. Lots of times, women are waiting for a man to confidently take charge when it comes to initiating sex. I'm sure nobody ever told you that (hell, nobody told ME that!!), but it is often true :)

>I'm giving this college thing one more semester before I call it quits. I'm not going to get another degree if it requires me to be miserable and single for another 3 years. I mean I'm charting into 30 year old wizard territory at this point and it scares the shit out of me. My friends have been trying to get me to move to Florida and I just may take them up on the offer.

Changing your location without changing your mindset is not likely to make a significant change to your circumstances. Although, it could offer you the opportunity to a fresh start, which could be helpful :)

>Any advice would be appreciated, I just feel the cult has taken a huge chunk of my life away when I was supposed to learn valuable social skills. I feel like a fucking child or an alien learning how to be human, even though I have been out of the cult for quite some time now, but have really only been away from toxic family for four months.

Yes, that's probably what happened. And its up to you to change it. Nobody else is going to do it for you. So stop wallowing in your own misery and change it. (Respectfully, with tough love, man to man.)

>My plan for next semester is joining some clubs, going to bars, and going more parties, and trying to strike up more conversations with women in class getting a gym membership, working on your self esteem and your ability to project your value to the opposite sex, and learning how to interact with women in a way that makes you attractive.

>If nothing happens in the second semester I'm just going to say fuck it and move, I'm at a point in my life were I'm tired of going out to eat by myself, shopping by myself, watching movies by myself, and doing everything else by my fucking self. All I did this Thanksgiving was sleep and get drunk. I've read all those articles about "loving yourself first", this isn't a problem about loving myself, I didn't do anything wrong. I'm just so fucking sick of being alone, I don't have a family, I have no one close to me.

I feel your pain man. Now is not the time to give up, but it is time to change your approach.

There are many who are in your position or have been. My wife is still an active JW (not die-hard) and she takes our child. It doesn't look at this point (3 years since I left) that she's going anywhere. Some make it out with their entire family, but they are the exception. Prepare yourself for that. It is a strong possibility that your wife will never leave.

It is a whole lot easier to get your children out (depending on their age). The younger they are, the better. Spend more time asking questions rather than "exposing the organization." Then, when they finally become curious, you can explore the answers to those questions together.

Spend as much time with your family doing things that don't include Jehovah's Witnesses. If these things "coincidentally" interfere with meetings and service, great! Get your kids involved with extra-curricular activities at school, gymnastics, boy/girl scouts, soccer, etc. The closer they become to children who are normal, the more they will begin to view Jehovah's Witnesses as restrictive and down right weird.

Do you have any nonJW family near by? Get closer to them. Any nonJW friends/associates you could get to know better? Build a new circle of friends outside of the organization NOW. Lets face it, most of us were only ever in the organization because of the relationships anyway. So, if you can find meaningful ones outside of the organization, you will be able to fall into that safety net once the shunning begins.

If you're not sure how to go about making new friends and you want to include your wife, find a hobby that you both enjoy and then go do that together. Meetup is a great way to find people who enjoy the same hobbies (board games, hiking, biking, book clubs, etc.). Find the ones you gravitate toward more and invite them out for drinks afterward or over to your house for dinner or out to coffee. It is likely that if you are attracted to them you will also be attracted to the friends in their social circle. So, sometimes you really only have to find a couple of good friends in the beginning and then let them plug you into a whole new group.

If you are in a position to do so, it might also be smart to move a good distance away from the people you know. It's hard to start in a new congregation and so your wife will be more likely to give up the organization if she doesn't fit in with her hall and if old JW friends/family aren't near by pressuring her multiple days a week. You're already going to have to find new friends to socialize with, so don't let that stop you from making this choice!

You can't stay in the organization for the sake of your wife and kids. You will end up resenting them if they don't leave and it will ruin your relationship anyway. So, I would suggest just making a plan to get out (either fade, or quit cold turkey) at some point soon and between now and then see if you can nudge your family in the same direction.

If they don't escape now, you can at least be true to yourself. While not ideal, it is possible that you could be happy in a religiously divided household. If things get tough between you and the Mrs, look into going to see a counselor. Be honest with her about how you feel, but don't be overly critical of her. Remember, you are the one that changed. Leaving a cult is extremely difficult and she has been programmed to resist you.

There is much more to say on the issue, but those are some quick thoughts before I dart off to work.

I would suggest you order a copy of this book and read it when you get time. I've interviewed Dale and he's a great guy. It'll give you lots of great tips on making a mixed marriage work.

Best of luck to you. Feel free to PM me any time.

Hello and welcome! Indoctrination in most cults can leave a person bitter about the world around them. Learning the actual facts about reality, the universe, and humanity is a good way to counter those negative feelings in my experience. Not sure how much of this applies to you, but here are my recommendations for de-indoctrinating yourself:

Take some time to learn about the history of the bible. For example, you can take the Open Yale Courses on Religious Studies for free.

Read Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman

Also read A History of God by Karen Armstrong

Watch this talk from Sam Harris where he explains why "free will" is likely an illusion, which debunks the entire premise of "the fall of man" as presented by most Christian religions.

Watch this video on the Cordial Curiosity channel that teaches how the "Socratic Method" works, which essentially is a way to question why we believe what we believe. Do we have good reasons to believe them? If not, should we believe them?

Watch this video by Theramin Trees that explains why we fall for the beliefs of manipulative groups in the first place.

This video explains why and how childhood indoctrination works, for those of us born-in to a high-control group.

Another great source is this youtube series debunking 1914 being the start of the last days.

Next, learn some science. For example - spoiler alert: evolution is true. Visit Berkeley's excellent Understanding Evolution Website. Or, if you're pressed for time, watch this cartoon.

Read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne.

Read The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins.

Watch this series where Aron Ra explains in great detail how all life is connected in a giant family tree.

Learn about the origin of the universe. For example, you could read A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking.

Learn about critical thinking from people like [Michael Shermer] (http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_shermer_on_believing_strange_things?language=en), and how to spot logical fallacies.

For good measure, use actual data and facts to learn the we are NOT living in some biblical "last days". Things have gotten remarkably better as man has progressed in knowledge. For example, watch this cartoon explaining how war is on the decline.

Read The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined by Steven Pinker.

Watch this Ted Talk by Hans Rosling, the late Swedish Statistician, where he shows more evidence that the world is indeed becoming a better place, and why we tend to wrongly convince ourselves otherwise.

I wish you the best. There is a whole world of legitimate information out there based on actual evidence that you can use to become a more knowledgeable person.

You may still wonder how you can be a good human without "the truth." Here is a good discussion on how one can be good without god. --Replace where he talks about hell with armageddon, and heaven with paradise--

Start to help yourself begin to live a life where, as Matt Dillahunty puts it, you'll "believe as many true things, and as few false things as possible."

Awesome, it's great you're so proud of her!

Haha knowledge that leads to everlasting boredom! Book studies were the worst, I always felt super obligated to study extra hard because there were so few people that often nobody would answer!

Don't be so sure that your family will keep abandoning you, it's possible sure, but there's always hope! Often they're surprised that you can leave the witnesses and live a normal, or even better than normal life (of course there's always the "blessed by satan" get out clause) but they do expect people who leave to get aids and die from a heroin overdose.

It's easy to prove them wrong! Either way though, you have your own family to look out for and you can learn what not to do!

On to the suggested reading. I've mentioned many on here before but I don't expect everyone to be aware of it all so here goes:

Reading (I have a kindle and love reading, but they're all available for ebook and in paperback)

• Michael Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time and The Believing Brain: From Ghosts and Gods to Politics and Conspiracies---How We Construct Beliefs and Reinforce Them as Truths these books really really helped me comprehend how I allowed myself to be fooled and that I can learn from my mistakes
  
• Richard Dawkins - The greatest show on earth and Coyne's Why evolution is true concreted the fact that the earth wasn't made and that animals didn't magically appear
  
• Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World - it is a bit similar to shermers books, but a great read nonetheless, Sagan has an amazing awe at the universe and it's beautiful to read!
  
• Christopher Hitchens - God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything This book is by far among my favorites but it has a more aggressive tone, which is why I wouldn't start with it. Hitchens was awesome, even though I didn't agree with everything he said.
  
  Web
  
  
• JWFacts, of course...an invaluable site but it WILL make you mad
  
• Bad astronomy - add it to your RSS reader, often breathtaking, and generally about space
  
• Jerry Coyne's Why Evolution is True blog - science and politics
  
  
  Pocasts
  
  (all on iTunes etc, i like them because I can listen at work or download to my phone)
  
  
• The skeptic's guide to the universe it's intelligent, they discuss science and science news and skepticism and I always learn something
  
• Dogma debate just great, lots of debates with christians of various kinds and you can hear how both sides present their arguments
  
• Rationally speaking you said philosophy is of interest, if so this is a must!!!
  
• Cognitive dissonance - they are angry they talk news and politics and religion, it's very funny, informative and irreverent
  
• Caustic soda just a generally awesome science / history / factual podcast
  
  
  That's about it for now, if you soak all that in / want more / have suggestions let me know, and I'd love to hear what you think! :)
  
  

Thank you for trying for him, and being the real definition of a friend. Trusting people when you are trained to believe that everyone outside of the cult is a servant of the Devil and out to make you suffer is hard to overcome.

So here's my advice, maybe you could introduce him to therapy a little differently and in smaller doses. Ask him every step of the way to if any of the following or other commenters suggestions is something he would be interested in trying. He never had free will, the organization, his family, and congregation literally ran his life for him. He needs to understand what a friend is and that you are his friend, and not his dictator. He has to be an active participant in his own healing, and in a friendship. Be patient, and know that showing him the door to recovery and independence, is enough. You are good person for trying for him, and that is enough. Ultimately, allow him to choose to help himself.

So, to be more specific on how to help, introduce the idea of reading accredited articles about C-PTSD, Anxiety, and cult recover on psychology websites or from cult recovery groups. Allow him to visit the websites of therapists who write articles about subjects that matter to him, like Pete Walker concerning C-PTSD. Or introduce the idea of reading self help books. Since I mentioned Pete Walker, he wrote Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving. Tell him to recommend some for you to read, this means he found them on his own, liked them, and wanted to share. And even introduce him to idea of lurking on a few safe subs. It doesn't have to be r/exjw at first, but could be something like r/aww to see nice things and interact with more people on his own terms. It doesn't have to be, and shouldn't be an avalanche of information (like I just gave to you). But, a help nugget here and there, that he can approach from a safe place of his own choosing, can help him learn that just like you, therapists aren't bad and they could really help him thrive instead of just surviving. Best wishes <3

Random selection of some of my favorites to help you expand your horizons:

The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan is a great introduction to scientific skepticism.

Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris is a succinct refutation of Christianity as it's generally practiced in the US employing crystal-clear logic.

Augustus: The Life of Rome's First Emperor by Anthony Everitt is the best biography of one of the most interesting men in history, in my personal opinion.

Travels with Herodotus by Ryszard Kapuscinski is a jaw-dropping book on history, journalism, travel, contemporary events, philosophy.

A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson is a great tome about... everything. Physics, history, biology, art... Plus he's funny as hell. (Check out his In a Sunburned Country for a side-splitting account of his trip to Australia).

The Annotated Mona Lisa by Carol Strickland is a thorough primer on art history. Get it before going to any major museum (Met, Louvre, Tate Modern, Prado, etc).

Not the Impossible Faith by Richard Carrier is a detailed refutation of the whole 'Christianity could not have survived the early years if it weren't for god's providence' argument.

Six Easy Pieces by Richard Feynman are six of the easier chapters from his '63 Lectures on Physics delivered at CalTech. If you like it and really want to be mind-fucked with science, his QED is a great book on quantum electrodynamics direct from the master.

Lucy's Legacy by Donald Johanson will give you a really great understanding of our family history (homo, australopithecus, ardipithecus, etc). Equally good are Before the Dawn: Recovering the Lost History of Our Ancestors by Nicholas Wade and Mapping Human History by Steve Olson, though I personally enjoyed Before the Dawn slightly more.

Memory and the Mediterranean by Fernand Braudel gives you context for all the Bible stories by detailing contemporaneous events from the Levant, Italy, Greece, Egypt, etc.

After the Prophet by Lesley Hazleton is an awesome read if you don't know much about Islam and its early history.

Happy reading!

edit: Also, check out the Reasonable Doubts podcast.

I’ve said this many times on this sub, but being with a PIMI spouse is a special kind of hell. It’s almost like you can never truly leave the JWs because you’ll always be attached through them. It can be maddening at times especially when they slip into their cult personality and behave passively aggressively towards you.

One thing that helped me early on that may be worth your time, is reading a book called In Faith and In Doubt. https://www.amazon.com/Faith-Doubt-Religious-Believers-Nonbelievers/dp/0814433723

I read this when I was thinking of a way to possibly remained married despite our differences. Surprisingly, the book does mention JW marriages. Sadly, most divided JW marriages don’t work because of the nature of the religion, which is mentioned in the book and what we all know too well. The book didn’t help me make the decision to stay or to leave. Only you can decide that. But it did give me some perspective and tips on what I could do in my marriage if I chose to stick with it.

I agree with the other poster who said being married to a PIMI is a long road. It’s been 3 years since I stopped all activity and I still go back and forth about if I should continue. One thing my therapist says is that it’s hard to remain in a relationship where you don’t share or respect each other’s core values. JWs do not and will not respect the decision to leave the faith no matter how much they say they do. And exJWs do not respect the values of the JW religion. It’s a huge foundational conflict. This kind of situation requires a considerable amount of compromise by both parties. The issue is is that many PIMI will not compromise and require the POMO spouse to jump through hoops and demand a certain level respect and allowances and not reciprocate. This, as you know, can be emotionally exhausting.

My advice to you is to decide what you can and can not tolerate. Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Can you get there in this marriage? Can you truly be happy in the relationship or are you settling? Are you still sharing a life together or are you simply tolerating each others’? Do you want children? How would you feel about them being at least partially raised as JWs?

I do wish you good luck. I can completely relate to this struggle.

I will give my response to your post. I read the other comments, thinking that I would just add to what they said without repeating what had already been said, but realized that then my own comment would become fragmented if I took that into account, so I will ignore what others have said.

 

> I lied to the elders by saying I read it when I got baptised after they asked if I read the bible everyday.

I think this is a very common lie. I don't think many elders have read the Bible either.

In fact, every single time some Jehovah's Witness say "I know this is the truth, because I have investigated the evidence myself" they are lying.

Another very common lie: "I don't masturbate"

The truth is, almost everyone masturbates, most people have not read the Bible, and every single one that has actually investigated the evidence for themself has left the religion, at least mentally.

 

> I’m a slow reader (I think I might have adhd. Should I see a doctor?) and I’m up to Genesis 3.

Going to a doctor could be a good idea, perhaps. I don't know the extent of your problem.

Personally, when I haven't been reading anything for a long time, in the way I read the Bible, then it will be slower. But then if I keep at it for a few days or a week I will speed up. Sometimes if I read two hours straight, the first hour I will read with difficulty, but the second hour I read much better. Another thing that could speed up your reading is if you don't speak the words, neither out loud nor in your head, because it takes time to "pronounce" the words. But reading text without even pronouncing it mentally is not something everyone knows how to do, and I don't know how to teach it.

Though, even if you only read the text in the same speed as you speak normally, you will still easily read through the Bible in a year, unless your life is busy.

 

> I’m very very confused about Genesis 1 and 2 so far as it seems like it contradicts itself so much.

My understanding of the scientific explanation is that Genesis 2 was written first by one author, and later Genesis 1 was written by another author and added to the beginning of Genesis, and the theologies of those authors are different.

The first author, who wrote Genesis 2 about Adam and Eve, thought, according to my own understanding of the text, that humans were first created as mere animals, and then they gained "knowledge of good and bad" and became more than animals. This was why they were naked without feeling any shame, because they were just as any other animals. The author was a child of his time and culture, and thought it was uncivilized to be naked, unaware that it is a cultural idea not universal to humans.

This might also explain why the snake could speak: the author might have thought that as Adam and Eve were just mere animals, they could speak the same language as animals. Though there are other possible explanations.

Christians usually describe the events in Eden as "the Fall", but this is not supported by the text. Instead, it is "the Ascension". The two trees represent two qualities of gods that set gods apart from animals. The "knowledge of good and bad" represents the author's understanding of the mental difference between humans and animals, which he believed originally only belonged to the gods.

Jehovah lied to Adam and Eve about the tree, essentially saying that it was poisonous, to keep them from eating and ascending to the level of the gods. The snake revealed the truth, and they ate and became as gods. Jehovah felt threatened by this, and expelled them from Eden to prevent them from gaining the second quality of gods: eternal life, by eating from the tree of life.

This was the author's explanation why humans are partly divine, by having knowledge as gods, and partly animal, by being mortal as animals.

The second author, who wrote Genesis 1, disagreed. He thought God created the humans in the image of God from the outset. There was never any time when humans were only mere animals, and no "Ascension". There was never a "tree of knowledge".

The second author plagiarized a pre-existing creation myth, and made some changes. One of the changes was that he removed a battle between God and the cosmic waters, because according to the second author, God is omnipotent. The original audience knew the pre-existing myth, and could notice the difference, but most modern readers don't know about the pre-existing story.

Genesis 1:1-3 should read something like

> When God began to create sky and land—the land being unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of Tehom and a wind from God sweeping over the water—God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

In the original story, there was a battle between the gods and Tehom. In Hebrew, "Tehom" is a proper noun, a name, even though most translations hide this.

The Watchtower Society brags about not hiding the fact that "YHWH" is a name, and transcribes it as "Jehovah", but they are still guilty of hiding the name "Tehom" and other names in the Bible such as "El". (Also, as others have stated, the Watchtower inserts the name "Jehovah" into the Bible where "YHWH" is not found, like in the New Testament.)

This is just how I understand it, though it is also based on what I have heard from scholars. I may have gotten details wrong.

When I was PIMI and read it not too carefully, I thought that the story about Adam and Eve "zoomed in" on the sixth day of creation. Thus, Genesis 1 described the creation of heaven and earth and humans, while Genesis 2 took a closer look at the creation of humans. Now I don't believe this is correct.

If one tries to read Genesis as a single coherent story, to the limited degree it is possible, then this is probably how I would read it today: First God created sky, land (a flat earth in an earth-sized snow globe), and humans in six (literal) days, then he rested on the seventh day, then after an unspecified time, Jehovah created Adam, that started out as a mere animal, but then ascended. Thus Adam and Eve were not the first humans, though it seems the first humans were gone, because there were no one to tilt the ground.

 

> Anyway, what translation should I use? ... Of course, there’s the King Lebron James Version, the American standard version and a bunch of others too. I want an actual physical copy of the bible too, I’m a young person but I’m so sick of looking at technology all the time so I’d prefer an actual bible. I also don’t want a biased translation or one that may have just added or removed things from the bible where they see fit. I want a bible as close to the original texts as possible.

I like the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) (specifically as The New Oxford Annotated Bible, 5th ed.) and the New Jewish Publication Society's Tanakh (NJPS) (as The Jewish Study Bible, 2nd ed.).

However, there is no translation without bias, or even without mistranslations. At least not one of the whole Bible in a single volume.

But there are definitively better ones and worse ones.

Some things that speak in favour of NRSV:

• NRSV is an Ecumenical translation, involving Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox, and the Old Testament involves a Jewish translator as well. This means that when they disagree about the interpretation, they tend to stick to the more literal reading that they all agree on. It still has bias, but not as much as translations made by a single denomination.
  
  
• NRSV is created by non-fundamentalists, which means a higher acceptance of a scientific understanding of the text.
  
  
• NRSV is on the spectrum towards a formal translation, which means it is closer to a word-for-word translation. This means it has less smooth English, but also less room for bias.
  
  
• NRSV is recommended by academics, both by secular scholars and non-fundamentalist Christian scholars.
  
  When I first started researching different translations to decide which ones I should get, I thought "Using 'Jehovah' or 'Yahweh' is superior to using 'the LORD', so I will start looking at translations that use 'Jehovah' and 'Yahweh'", but I soon realized that the winner was NRSV despite not using 'Jehovah/Yahweh'.
  
  The Watchtower brags about getting "YHWH" right, but the name "YHWH" is only about 1% of the total number of words. Getting 1% of the words right, while being dodgy about the remaining 99% isn't that impressive.
  
  Sometimes the gender neutral language of NRSV is criticized. An example of the gender neutral language is that in the New Testament the phrase "brothers and sisters" is used where many mainstream translations use "brothers". This isn't necessarily wrong, because the Greek word could refer to an all-male group or a mixed gender group. But some have said that NRSV occasionally use gender neutral language where the intended meaning is not gender neutral.

u/SwordOfRighteousness touched on this already, but just to drive the point home...There are layers to what you do or do not believe. The top layer is JW doctrine. The second layer is the Bible. The third, foundation layer, is the belief in Jehovah God (or theism, at the very least). You can remove your belief in the top layer, the JW doctrines, and still have belief in the Bible and Jehovah. But if you remove your belief in the Bible itself then you can not retain belief in JW doctrine. So I would suggest starting there. Prove to yourself what the Bible is. How would you do this?

​

To start, I can not recommend highly enough the free online Yale Bible course: Yale Bible Course

​

This is a level of critical Bible study most witnesses are completely unaware even exists. It's not anti-Bible, setting out to disparage it. It simply deconstructs what we know, and what we don't know, about the origins of the Bible itself. Start with the OT course, it's fantastic. And then, read. Read like your life depends on it because, in a way, it does. At least, what kind of life you have depends on it. Books that really helped me:

​

Who Wrote the Bible

The Bible Unearthed

Jesus, Interrupted

​

These aren't some flat-earth type nut jobs spewing non-sense. They are well respected Biblical scholars who have devoted their lives to the Bible. Personally, they destroyed my second layer of belief, and made my views on the top layer almost irrelevant.

>The copy of Crisis of Conscience that I have is a first edition hardcover. I see that there are many revisions of this work. What has changed between the first edition and the fifth edition?

I just gave a 1st edition to another redditor on here, & have a 4th edition in my possession.

And now I can't find any sort of preview of the 1st edition online...

In my copy, there are black-&-white photos in a few of the early chapters. As I recall, the 1st edition lacked those. Also, the last part of the book has a 13th chapter entitled "Perspective". Looking at the dates of his comments in that chapter, I see that many took place well past the original printing's date of 1983. So likely much of that chapter (which contains an overview, plus comments on developments within the Watchtower Society during the 1990's & into the early 2000's) focuses on developments subsequent to the 1st (2nd & 3rd) printings.

>I may have misread things (and it's certainly possible since I'm unfamiliar with both the New Testament and JW-isms), but Ray seems to write about the pre-1975 era of his time in the organization with great fondness.

I did not get that impression at all. From chapter 7 "Predictions and Presumption" [page 172] through chapter 9 "1975: 'The Appropriate Time for God to Act'," [page 253], Ray Franz dissects the origins of their multiple false prophecies and the hubris of the Watchtower Society's claims surrounding their biggest prophecy (and failure) of 1975.

The next chapter, [chapter 10] "1914 and 'This Generation'," discusses the fallout from the failed false prophecy of 1975 & subsequent structural changes within the organization.

But the only time I ever perceived Ray Franz as having any positive feelings towards anything associated with the Watchtower Society, was when he spoke of individual members who had served faithfully, and were then cast aside like trash by the very organization they'd served so long & loyally. Undoubtedly he was feeling quite a bit of that betrayal in his own situation.

I did a brief analysis of Raymond Franz' possible motivations in this thread, in case you're interested:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/4bpk39/ray_franz_departure_from_watchtower_society/

I don't think he had much nostalgia for the earlier years of Knorr (who served under Rutherford, who was a terrible bully), or for the period of the initial Governing Body.

>What are some other books that you would recommend? I'm not really familiar with the ex-JW literary landscape.

There are dozens (if not more) books written about the JWs. I personally would recommend:

http://www.amazon.com/Orwellian-World-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802065457

Haven't read this one yet, but it looks fascinating:

http://www.amazon.com/Judgment-Day-Must-Wait-Witnesses/dp/1936411237

http://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802079733

That should get you started...

>4) What happened between Ray and the rest of his family? There is almost no mention of Fred Franz after the inquisition started - did they ever communicate with each other after it began or did Fred never speak to him again after they started becoming suspicious of Ray?

As I recall, "Fractured Freddie" (my nickname for that idiot) Franz never spoke to his nephew after the witch-hunt began at Bethel. Nor did ol' "Fractured Freddie" (who allegedly talked to his shoes, later in life) apparently lift a finger to help his beleaguered nephew at any point during that witch-hunt.

It would be a good idea to add a section about Trauma, since so many JWs not only experienced religious trauma but also family dysfunction at different levels of severity.

This book in particular Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving is a must read. It's available in English, German and as of this month in Spanish as well.

The Emotionally Absent Mother is another great one.

And finally, The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma

A section on helpful resources for rebuilding your life could include this book:

The Power of Habit , out of everything I read, this book, along with meditation, played a major role in helping me break the patterns of depression so that I could get my energy back and become productive again.

And finally, a section on finances might be another good idea. I haven't really dived into that yet myself, but I'm sure it would be extremely helpful for a lot of ExJWs. Maybe others have good recommendations.

As for fiction, this book had me crying for days. It's specific to the Dominican, Latin American experience but I think anyone, especially young women, with dreams and an unsupportive, religious fanatic of a mother can relate.

The Poet X

My younger teenage self liked this one: King Arthur by Roger Lancelyn Green. I simultaeously found this book and a tape of Led Zeppelin's greatest hits. They synced up incredibly well. "Battle of Evermore" especially, although Lord of the Rings probably fits that song best.


What kind of books are you interested in?


An idea! -> You might get some awesome ideas and do some great exJW awareness by posting this question over at /r/books. Explaining you were in a religion that controlled what you could read and think...the members over there might get a kick out of helping you with suggestions!

[edit] Oooh, you wanted useful books. Sorry. I think I badly wanted to reread the King Arthur book (just watched Excaliber again on HBO/Netflix), so I didn't pay attention to the word "useful". Sorry!


The Bible Unearthed was fascinating.

Hey man, welcome. We've all suffered through some form of PTSD with that cult. Honestly, yes, therapy can help but my advice is to find a course online or otherwise on critical thinking. That, I've found to be the definitive cure for that nonsensical thinking that the cult brainwashes you with starting at childhood. A good starting point is "Your Deceptive Mind: A scientific guide to critical thinking" by Stephen Novella ( https://www.amazon.com/Your-Deceptive-Mind-Scientific-Critical/dp/B00DTNWF2Q ). Get the audiobook, you can probably get it for free with an audible trial, listen to it while driving, before bed... it will help you. Read some stuff from Sam Harris, the late great Christopher Hitchens, it all helped me more than any therapist I went to, because, like you, I found that it's hard to find a therapist that understands what growing up in a cult is like.

Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History available on iTunes podcasts as well.

Steven Pinker’s book The Better Angels of our Nature is a fantastic total annihilation of Watchtower’s constant fearmongering about how much violence there is in the world and how it’s only getting worse.

Basically anything by Richard Dawkins is evolutionary biology gold, highly recommend his book The Greatest Show on Earth

Neil deGrasse Tyson recently released a great book Astrophysics for People in a Hurry that gives so many mind-blowing facts about our universe in quick-to-read fashion. His podcast StarTalk Radio is fascinating and fun as well.

Bart D Ehrman is a fantastic biblical scholar, his book Forged examines the Gospel writers and why many are not who the religious believe them to be.

Luckily my mom is into self-help stuff. She loves going on youtube and watching stuff on narcissism and psychology. If only she would connect the dots - ha ha! She really likes http://www.marcandangel.com/ I'm guessing she is not meant to look at such sites. She takes tips from some of the self-help books I have read and found good. I'm hoping to one day get her to read "The subtle power of spiritual abuse", which is a very good book. https://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Power-Spiritual-Abuse-Manipulation/dp/0764201379

It drives me nuts that she can't connect the dots.

I'm not one to defend quite409, but in this I have to agree. I never felt the exact pronunciation was important for the same reason that we say Jesus. We don't say Yeshuah or Yehoshuah and are not ever certain if had 2 or 3 syllables in his day. And yet "there is not another name under heaven by which we must be saved."

Yahweh is not accepted by all bible scholars. Everett Fox, who wrote the Five Books of Moses ( https://www.amazon.com/Five-Books-Moses-Leviticus-Deuteronomy/dp/0805211195 )- an amazing translation that tries to pay attention to the word play, puns, and onomatopoeia that came from listening to the words, which was the experience most of it's audience had.- in his forward, discussed which version of the name was best and his was Yahve I think.

In any case, I don't think it matters from a biblical standpoint.

And I especially dont think it matters since I don't believe in the bible or in Jehovah in the slightest. No skin off my back.

Even if I did, I'd never serve him. He is a sociopath.

I was gonna say something to u/quite409 about birthdays and pagan origins. But, eh. Not worth it.

If you want something related, but not JW specific, these might interest you:

"The Origin of Satan: How Christians Demonized Jews, Pagans, and Heretics"
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0679731180/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_WJCDDbMAJFDPK

And

"Forged: Writing in the Name of God--Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are"
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062012622/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_KMCDDbAAJ0GGN

I found them interesting and they do tie indoctrination, particularly since JW are big on the Satan Concept and Paul's teachings, most of Paul's books of the bible were not written by Paul. I might be biased in my enjoyment of these books. I do not believe in Satan, I think it is just a boogeyman concept to instill fear. I also think Paul/Simon was a sack of shit, but it seems as though most of the books attributed to him were written in his name well after his death. None of this is groundbreaking, it is pretty well established and accepted biblical history, but it is well written and easy to follow.

I am so sorry that this is happening to you. You are right to be concerned - this could very easily tear your family apart. I have seen it happen firsthand when someone in my family was recruited into the Dubs then became totally alienated from her non-Dub husband. You could very easily end up in a situation where both your wife and your child are brainwashed into thinking you are a bad influence and that only other Dubs are worth spending time with. You definitely do not want to be complacent about this. The JWs are not "just another religion". It is a very dangerous and nasty cult.

My advice would be to immediately start "studying" the JWs yourself - but NOT with their own material. JWs don't know their own history very well at all, but you can find a lot of eye opening stuff using outside materials like http://www.jwfacts.com

Here are the three books that I would strongly recommend you purchase and start reading right away:

The Reluctant Apostate: Leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses (a very long and well-researched explanation of the JWs - if you can only read one of these books, I would make it this one)

Combating Cult Mind Control (not focused on just the JWs, but a general book about how cults operate and how to try to work with someone to get them out)

Crisis of Conscience (an older book written by one of the "Governing Body" members that ended up leaving the religion)

If you read those books, you will learn a LOT about how the JWs operate and have ample proof that this is not a legitimate religion. However, you can't confront her directly with this info. She has been programmed by the cult to reject any direct attack on the religion.
However, as you read them, you will probably think of some questions that you'll have for your wife about the Dubs. Start asking her questions NOT in an aggressive way but just in a "curious" sort of way. For example, "What do you make of [this thing]? What is the JW explanation for that?"

When people are being brainwashed, you can't confront them directly about it. That just makes them dig their heels in. You have to slowly dismantle the belief system by asking them questions and forcing them to realize for themselves that the cult doesn't have a good answer for it.

I also recommend trying your best to find excuses to spend time away from home on meeting days to keep her away from the dubs as much as possible. Time spent away from the indoctrination sessions can often help people realize on their own that it is bullshit.

Ha. Ok then there is always this book to help you prepare. Steven Hassan is the creator of the BITE model. His insights are world renown on the subject. One thing the video and his books tall about is to not go in wanting to get them out. The key is to try to get them to think for themselves. The rest will follow. Maybe

Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults, and Beliefs https://www.amazon.com/dp/0967068819/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_ZczQBbHC8BKSF

> Besides even if she knew TTATT she'd just have a host of new stresses to deal with, ones I know only too well.

I understand where you are coming from but this is the equivalent of treating your adult wife like a child. She deserves to know the truth. Only when we have the most reliable information are we equipped to make the most informed decisions.

Change your tactics. Try the Socratic method by asking her the type of questions that make her think. I know it's overwhelmingly difficult but you need to resist the urge to just bombard her with facts/information. Her JW indoctrination is a sophisticated piece of software. You have to use finesse here instead of a direct approach.

I recommend you read some of this if you haven't already. I fucked up badly when I woke up and immediately tried to wake up my family. Wish I had read that book first.

I bought three translations, two in English:

The New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha (NRSV) (I bought the 4th ed, but I linked the 5th ed)

The Jewish Study Bible, 2nd ed. (NJPS)

Then I have two different editions of the Masoretic text, based on the Leningrad Codex.

Then I have The Kingdom Interlinear, which despite being published by the Watchtower is kept together with the non-WT Bibles due to it containing the Greek text.

These I will probably keep for a long time, as the Bible is historically a very important work, unless they are replaced with better alternatives.

Then I keep a small reference library of WT stuff, which includes a few versions of NWT, the Reasoning book, Insight, Daniel's Prophecy, etc. All of it I got from WT while PIMI/PIMO, which means that no JW can question the authenticity of the information in it.

When I want to know what the Bible says, I look it up in my three non-WT Bibles and compare them, and tentatively accept whatever they all agree on while remaining agnostic about whatever they don't agree on.

I am also in the process of reading through the Bible, to learn what it says without bias.

This is the best book I have read on the contradictions. Bart explains them in an easy to understand way. I HIGHLY recommend this book for getting around the contradictions.

Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001TKD4XA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_lH9UCbXXWZW6E


And if you want to get around the Bible a little better, Bart's books are amazing. I've read like three or four of them.

Hey Dave,

I wanted to respond to this for a few days now. Sorry for the late reaction ;-).

It makes sense to be terrified at doom days predictions. We're all human and nobody is bulletproof to nonsensical ideas. You will find that even the smartest around us, believe in really silly things. This goes much further than religion. Alternative medicine (homeopathy, reiki, acupuncture), religion, conspiracy theories (911, Elvis still lives, we didn't land on the moon).

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we had a systematic way of knowing if 'things we know' (or ideas) were true or false. It would have to be testable and repeatable. and no matter what your origin was: American, African, Asian, European, you would have to come objectively to the same conclusion.

Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.

I would argue that most people don't want to become disassociated with JWs anymore, because it's the most logic step, but because they don't feel that way anymore. In the end humans are guided much more by their feelings than logic. We consider ourself a logic bunch, but when it comes to reality, most people take the decision with their feelings and then rationalize them self right using logic. Then what happens, is that although this person is not a JW anymore, they are still susceptible to other ideas, like alternative medicine, conspiracies or other religions. And this is really where scientific literacy comes into play.

Since you said you're a techy, I think you will like the following recommendations. I really encourage you to google and watch the following people on youtube:

Sam Harris

Daniel Dennett

Christopher Hitchens

Richard Dawkins

Neil degrasse Tyson

And read: http://www.amazon.com/The-Demon-Haunted-World-Science-Candle/dp/0345409469

Once I woke up from unreservedly believing in fairy tales because that's what my parents taught me to believe - I tried tackling this question. I've never really stopped. Truth to me is what I know it is NOT. Truth with a capital T quickly brings us to very fundamental philsophical questions that may be beyond our comprehension in the way a shoe is beyond the comprehension of an ant.

The book that has helped me the very most in my quest was without question The Demon Haunted World - Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan. For what we can know to be Truth, this book is an excellent guide to help keep people grounded. It's a fun read, too. Highly recommended.

James Penton has written a couple of excellent books:

https://www.amazon.ca/Jehovahs-Witnesses-Third-Reich-Persecution/dp/0802089275

https://www.amazon.ca/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802079733

And for Orwellian fans, Gary and Heather Botting's book is a classic:

https://www.amazon.ca/Orwellian-World-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802065457

Botting also has some great research published about the WTs legal history. Check his website for more.

Edit to add: all of the above books should be available for borrow through the public library system

Hello,

One of the first books I read after deciding to leave JW was God is not Not Great by Christopher Hitchens https://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446697966. It was a great reading, especially because it was the first time I ever read anything like this, a straight forward attack on religions with reason as a base.

I'm reading The Bible Unearthed at the moment. Pretty much covers the early history of ancien Israel up to the return from the Babylone. A great read so far.

I suggest reading the book I wrote on helping people be empowered to think for themselves. it is called Freedom of Mind I think making friends with other folks, ex members from other groups, other activists.

There are many, many ideas for how to help.

I like NRSV (NOAB), NJPS (JSB), and NABRE. I recommend getting all three. In addition to being good translations, they contain lots of scholarly notes.

\ I just saw there's a new fifth edition of NOAB.

what your explaining about your ex is undue influence.

even though she’s been out of the cult for long time, this influence can still effect a person.

i recommend you read steven hassan’s book ‘combating cult mind control.’

Combating Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults https://www.amazon.com/dp/0967068827/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_lUQPBbNXCHJBN

there’s a audio version too.

someone raised in a cult gets effected in a way that keeps the member in a prolong child like manner. cult members are kept in a parent (the cult) child (member) relationship. children continue to need there parent(s) to tell them what to do in many aspects of their life, weather small or large decisions. it can depend on the person.

it’s possible that her parents got to her and had her take her child from you. that speculation though.

either way, you need to learn more of this topic to better understand.

also, your ex needs to see a physiologist that has experience dealing with cults.

Steven Hassan (who has created the BITE model) has several books about helping family members in high control groups. I think Freedom of Mind is the most resent.

Avoid being too confrontational about the JW beliefs. JW will teach that new converts might face persecution by the family members and that that will show them that the religion is the truth.

Steven Hassan recommends reading his newest book first, he said he learned a lot since his first book that you linked to. Both are great of course .

Two translations that seem popular at /r/academicbiblical and that are also used by the Open Yale Bible courses, are NRSV (as NOAB) and NJPS (as the Jewish Study Bible). I use them as my primary two English translations. Before I got them I did some research about what translations were probably the most accurate and those were the winners.

I always recommend the following:

https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802079733

It is not a polemic as many of the apostate sites can tend to be and Mr. Penton has solid academic qualifications. He is an apostate so it's not like you can introduce him as some outsider who happens to have written something about the JWs. But his intent is to evaluate the society and its claims with the rigour that is necessary to hold up to interrogation. He cites his sources, he presents a compelling argument and as an overall review of the society and its theology/eschatology it should be enough to shift almost anyone that is honestly evaluating the JWs.

Historian and ex-witness James Penton in his book Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of the Jehovah's witnesses had this to say about Knorr:


"Although possessing little if any ability as a writer, and certainly lacking the personal charisma of his predecessors, in many ways Knorr was a more able man than either."

Penton then describes Knorr's moves to de-emphasize the role of personalities in the WT, essentially by having all watchtower literature published anonymously. Continuing:

"Of course, there may have been another reason why Knorr wanted to develop this cult of de-personalization. Since he was unable to research and write the society's major publications, he knew that he would not be able to gain the prestige that both Russell and Rutherford had obtained as authors. So Nathan Knorr may very well have wanted to hide his own inadequacy by having practically all Watchtower material published anonymously."

Here are some other good books not included in the Bible.

https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136/ref=nodl_

https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192/ref=mp_s_a_1_2_nodl?crid=9RMC18R4FOG4&keywords=misquoting+jesus+by+bart+ehrman&qid=1554250427&s=gateway&sprefix=bart+ehrman&sr=8-2

https://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Show-Earth-Evidence-Evolution/dp/1416594795/ref=mp_s_a_1_3_nodl?crid=35QQAVAV7QDZC&keywords=richard+dawkins&qid=1554250354&s=gateway&sprefix=richard+dawkins&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins-ebook/dp/B003JTHWJQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_2_nodl?crid=35QQAVAV7QDZC&keywords=richard+dawkins&qid=1554250354&s=gateway&sprefix=richard+dawkins&sr=8-2

https://www.amazon.com/Foundation-Isaac-Asimov-ebook/dp/B000FC1PWA/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=12RC9CDG804CS&keywords=isaac+asimov&qid=1554250561&s=gateway&sprefix=isaac+asimov&sr=8-2

https://www.amazon.com/Gone-Girl-Gillian-Flynn/dp/0307588378/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=3CFDSBUJ5BQBR&keywords=gone+girl&qid=1554250625&s=gateway&sprefix=gone+giel&sr=8-2

https://www.amazon.com/Green-Eggs-Ham-Dr-Seuss/dp/0394800168/ref=nodl_

Hmm... this is tricky.

The rule is: Never, ever date a JW, and never date an ex-JW unless they can say with confidence that they will never go back.

If she is still mentally attached to the cult, you (and she) are in for a world of pain.

You should read this book, and soon:

http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Mind-Helping-Controlling-Beliefs/dp/0967068819/

Combating Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults https://www.amazon.com/dp/0967068827/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_7u7vCbA5CH25D

Buy it and read it. You’ll thank me later.

This. It's pretty much the only exhaustive history book on the JWs that I'm aware of. The only downside is that it hasn't been updated since the late 1990s.

Here's a link: http://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802079733

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684869136/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0684869136&linkCode=as2&tag=j0a14-20&linkId=264LFPXTKHKI7GZ6

The bible unearthed. Is that the one?

The Bible Unearthed by Finkelstein and Silberman

https://www.amazon.com/Combating-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0967068827

https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended-ebook/dp/B014DUR7L2

read Dr. Steven Hassan book ‘Combatting Cult Mind Control.’

has examples of other cults and how they operate.

edit: here it is.

Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136

Or watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-96hNrPcGg

I can't recommend this book enough.
https://www.amazon.com/Combating-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0967068827/

sigh throwing a pile of books at me instead of discussing the points kind of kills the discussion.

May I simply invite you to read a few books too then.

http://www.talkorigins.org/ - for general debunking of various evolutiony topics creationists cling to.

Two great books on biology and how it doesn't support god.

https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Watchmaker-Evidence-Evolution-Universe/dp/0393351491
https://www.amazon.com/Selfish-Gene-Popular-Science/dp/0192860925

And hey, everyone should read at last one Hitchen book.

https://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446697966/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YRA4TF2KH358H7VAVG9X

I bought this the other day:


Combating Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults https://www.amazon.com/dp/0967068827/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_GluIDbMCVH2N1

A couple of books by James Penton to consider:

Apocalypse Delayed -
https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802079733

JWs and the Third Reich -
https://www.amazon.com/Jehovahs-Witnesses-Third-Reich-Persecution/dp/0802089275

And Carl Olaf Jonsson:

Sign of the Last Days-When? -
https://www.amazon.com/Sign-Last-Days-When-Jonsson/dp/0914675095

The Gentile Times Reconsidered -
https://www.amazon.com/Gentile-Times-Reconsidered-Carl-Jonsson/dp/0914675079

Debunk what? A story being told on a show about ghosts and demons? Have you ever read the book The Demon Haunted World - Science as a Candle in the Dark? I really recommend that you do if you haven't.

Common question. The short answer is: it’s different for everyone. Direct, or overt attempts to wake people up can have mixed results sometimes making matters worse.

Check out Steven Hassan’s book on this very topic, he has more experience than almost any of us.

https://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Mind-Helping-Controlling-Beliefs/dp/0967068819/ref=nodl_

> I've got an aversion to ever looking up a text or grabbing a Bible

You should totally give it a try, though. If you like mythology and origin stories, it's pretty damn good if you let go of all the Christian bullshit interpretations that we have all been taught after the fact. Get some popular reading on the Bible done first, and/or follow the OpenYale courses and then re-read the Bible... just for shits and giggles.

You'll start to notice things like Yahweh truly not knowing what the fuck he's doing. Not because he's an incompetent idiot of a god, but just because he has no experience. It's really quite a cool epic, one that we have never been told right and never appreciated simply because we didn't have the context.

Bitterness is definitely something to be avoided. Of course your wife is none the wiser and getting angry and bitter at her will only make things worse. I highly recommend Steven Hassan's books. Buy this one and read it at work: http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Mind-Helping-Controlling-Beliefs/dp/0967068819/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368043209&sr=1-1&keywords=steven+hassan

There are no demons. I think at some point I want to make a freakin' documentary on the 1980s (which really started in the 70s) and this bullshit. The entire Western fundamentalist world was suffering from mass delusion in the 70s fueled by popular entertainment which led to even regular people, the court system, police, etc. to get caught up in the Satanic Panic of the 80s.

There were endless stories in the 70s/80s fueled by accounts not only in the main magazines, but the freaky ones were published in the Yearbooks. (Dress 'provocatively?' You'll be a target for the demons. Have rosary beads? One woman received 'apparitions and beatings' from the demons every Thursday night. (??!) Accounts of sorcerers sending demons to attack people studying, but shook with fear when he found out Jehovah was involved. This nonsense is from the 1970 Yearbook alone.)

Please read The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan. https://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted-World-Science-Candle-Dark/dp/0345409469