(Part 2) Best products from r/financialindependence

> Is it also not possible that the guy that has lived relatively frugally

It is possible, but he has objectively not done this, unless you're talking relative to other billionaires, even then there are far more frugal billionaires with 1/100th the public image he sells to
try to distance himself & his fund from the typical fund image (John Cauldwell, Azim Premji, a lot of the european dynastic old money as a few examples. For first generation, look at almost any of the Danish/Skandi billionaires)

If you have multiple private jets for the exclusive use of you & your family and own multiple properties, each worth millions of dollars - you're not frugal.

> is donating 99.9% of his fortune to charity when he dies

Is donating the massively tax deferred portion of his net worth to a privately run organisation that his family will be involved in running for decades to come, after already having set up all of his direct descendants as billionaires.

> calls out tax laws that are b.s. but personally benefit him is just that simple guy?

"don't hate the player, hate the game" with regard to tax law when you're the 3rd richest person on the planet, best mates with the 2nd richest person on the planet & literally have the money & power to CHANGE the game is not a valid argument. He talks a big game about tax reform, but does not work to actually do anything about it. Hell, his donations swing heavily toward republicans who are AGAINST tax reform. He's done very well thanks to them too:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/24/17048378/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-tax-cuts


A big chunk of Berkshire Hathaway's success is built on not paying tax, they've got $86,000,000,000+ in deferred taxes thanks to exploiting a loop hole where they don't have to pay tax while working on acquiring a company... So they just make sure they are always acquiring.

Imagine if you could defer paying tax forever with the argument that you're still busy buying shares or ETFs.. Given what subreddit we're on, it would be pretty appealing.

Then as previously mentioned in that linked article, the party you donate to comes along & cuts the tax rate, so now you owe billions less than you previously did - woohoo!

> His image may marginally help him

Buffett is selling what is essentially the antithesis of this subreddit. High fee managed funds that exploit tax rules for massive profitability to become personally one of the richest people on the planet. He's the anti-Bogle, yet this subreddit & a lot of FI/RE types love him, because of that image & brand.

Buffett is Berkshire, the reason why so many people & institutional funds are happy to pour money into Berkshire stock is because of the image. It hasn't helped him a little bit, it's helped him immensely.

> To me he seems to genuinely want what's best for the country/world.

To me he seems like another John D. Rockerfeller. A titan of industry who wants to be the richest so he can control where the money ends up. Win the game, then give most of it away. If you haven't read it yet, grab yourself a copy of https://www.amazon.com/Titan-Life-John-Rockefeller-Sr/dp/1400077303

The similarities are incredible.

I was more clueless about life when I was 18 than I would have cared to admit at the time.

However when I was 18 I was already running my own business and making good money at it, something called a BBS (bulletin board system) which was a precursor to the WWW. I was already using the Internet way before the WWW and transferred my business to the Web when it was viable to do so. I eventually sold it in 1998.

Here's some advice, not that you asked for it.

Make a personal mission statement. This will change throughout the years, review it every year or a couple times a year. Google "make a personal mission statement" and start getting ideas. No rush here, spend a few days thinking about it. It's a living document of your purpose so feel free to change it as changing fits. I keep my mission statement tacked behind my work laptop and have it memorized by now.

Next you'll want to make goals. I have yearly goals I make at the start of each year, due by Feb 1. Then I make 10 year goals for the decade. By your age I had a goal sheet, which I accomplished, to get me to the age of 30. This is a good primer for it: https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newHTE_90.htm this appears to be a paywall site but allows you to look at this article without paying.

We had a meeting a couple years ago, about 120 of us in attendance, and a retired Navy Seal was giving a group of us a motivational speech and provided content. He asked who had goals written down, about 20% of us raised our hands. He asked who had 10 year goals, about 10 people raised their hands. Then he asked who had 100 year goals and I was the only one who raised a hand.

I suppose he wasn't expecting anyone to claim a 100 year goal list, but here I am. A top earner in the room and a leader in the same respect. He asked me what the 100 year goals included and I told him "Legacy" which is funny because his next slide was about legacy, so I queued him up for a win. My answer was "I'm not just doing this for me, I'm creating a legacy and I want my great great great grandchild to get a check some day to pay for a house, or pay for college."

When I was 18 I didn't want kids. Well, now I have 3, and it's funny how life does that to you. Legacy is about taking care of your future after you die. Whether that's a charity, family, or something else you're interested in. Make your 100 year goals, yes you'll be dead, that's irrelevant. "You can't take it with you!" is a stupid phrase I've always frowned at. You can't take anything with you, but you can leave behind an enduring legacy, even if small.

So get your goals squared away and you'll start to feel less clueless about life, by the way, as a guy in my mid 40s there are plenty of things I'm clueless about. My son is about to turn 18, just graduated high school, I've given him the same advice as you. I'll be mentoring him through summer until he starts college.

Try to find a mentor, even if it's a college student only 2 years older than you. Surround yourself with smart able people. Make friends with people better than you. I've always had some older friends and today I have several in their 60s/70s. Retired CEOs, CIOs, guys who ran giant fishing fleets, guys that ran giant telcos, surgeons, politicians, etc. People I can learn from.

Never be afraid to be the youngest and certainly never be afraid to be the lowest on the ladder. This is how we learn and grow by surrounding ourselves with success.

Always read. It doesn't have to be a book about anything but always read. I go between fun books, historical books, and motivational or educational books. Start here: https://www.amazon.com/Make-Your-Bed-Little-Things/dp/1455570249

Good luck my man. You've got this, we need you.

Without knowing more about your current financial situation (current net income and net worth, goal net worth and net passive income), it is hard to comment on what may be the strongest investing strategies for you.

If I assume you have basically nothing (no assets and no debt), then for you to be financially free in 10 years (lets say 2M net worth, 75K passive net income/yr) will almost certainly require you to either have a VERY high income and savings rate from now until your goal age or to build something of significant value you can sell to fund your freedom. I suppose you could speculate a bunch in the market and wind up winning big, but the prevailing opinion is that you might as well go to Vegas and put it all on black if that is your overarching strategy.

My opinion, is that if you want to achieve financial freedom by 30 (and are starting from nothing today), than you are best off building a business and spending your time increasing its value. This is not a path for the faint of heart, and a lot of people who try quickly find out they are not up, but if you want to get out of the rat race in such a short time span it may be a good option. Maybe check out this book. I have found it useful, and it does a decent job explaining why systems development is key to the success of most businesses.

Real estate may also be a good avenue for you to look into as well. If you do go that route, understand that the majority of your profit on a real estate investment will be based on buying heavily undervalued assets. Finding motivated sellers is essential (people moving right away, kids squabbling over their dead parents house etc.) and you need to be extremely conservative when analyzing potential buys. Also, property management is very demanding and more complex that it may appear so be prepared for that.

Good luck!

> How can I become FI?


Figure out how much you need per year to live on, then save up roughly 25x that amount. You will then be fiscally independent. You save more money by spending less and earning more. It's going to take awhile, so invest your savings with a view to the long term, not the short term.


> Should I max out 401k?


Does your company have an employee match for 401k contributions? If they do, then you should contribute enough money each month to get the maximum benefit from the match. That match is like an "automatic" return - say they match you dollar for dollar up to 4%, well, then, if you save 4% you "automatically" make an instant 100% return when you match it. If they don't match it, it gets a little more complicated, so let's keep going and return to this later.


> How much should I put toward loans each month?


This depends a lot on the interest rates of the loans. If you have subsidized federal student loans at some crazy low interest rate like 4% or 5%, it's probably in your best interest to make the minimum payment each month so you can save more. Think of the interest rate on your loans as a "guaranteed return" - if you pay off a loan that has a 4% interest rate, you are getting a "guaranteed return" of 4% on the money you use to pay off the loan. In the long run, you can safely expect to make 7% or 8% on your savings, though, so why would you pay off a 4% loan? If the loans have 9% interest rates or more, though, you should laser focus on paying those debts off fast, because a 9% guaranteed return is way better than any investment you could make (EXCEPT for the employer match on your 401k, if there is one - if they're offering a 50% match, that's an automatic 50% return, so you obviously want to get that first, THEN use what's left to pay off the 9% loans). Where the line is depends a lot on your investment acumen. As a N00B, I would say any loans 7% or higher should be paid off before you start investing (with the exception of the 401k match!). You say you have a particularly strong desire to pay off your loans (I can relate!) so maybe draw the line at 6%. But paying off a 4% loan early is just really bad arithmetic - don't do it.


> What percent should I save to each account? Checking?


Your checking account is for predictable expenses on a 1-2 month type timeframe. You should have enough money in your checking account that it's not hitting zero constantly. You'll need to practice a little to figure out how much that is. Get an account with Mint.com to track your spending habits and set budgets. (I am assuming you don't write paper checks - if you do, you need a "buffer" in your checking account, in addition to the 1-2 month's living expenses, so you don't bounce checks. Bouncing checks is very bad for your credit - don't do it. If possible, avoid paper checks. If you are going to need to write them, CapitalOne's 360 checking accounts have helpful tools for dealing with that. Similarly, if you are going to need to withdraw large amounts of cash from your checking account, you need a bank with physical branches, as ATMs will only give you a couple hundred dollars at a time, so CapitalOne may be the way to go).


One note on checking accounts: since you will be travelling frequently, you're going to need to use random ATM's at gas stations etc, which charge convenience fees of $1-$5 per transaction. If you get a checking account through Ally Bank, they cover those fees, so that's probably a great option for you.


> High Interest savings?


OK, so once you have 1-2 months in your checking account, and you are getting the maximum benefit from your employer match on your 401k, and you are making the MINNIMUM payment on your loans, the next step is to establish an "emergency account" in a low fee, high yield, FDIC insured savings account. Once again I think Ally Bank is the way to go, because they offer 1% a year APR savings accounts with no fees, and no minimum. CapitalOne also has very good online savings accounts. The purpose of the emergency account is to put away enough cash to deal with "emergencies" - spending that happens less frequently then every couple of months. This would include fixing your car or your teeth or getting through a few months of unemployment. The rule of thumb is 6 months of income saved in your savings account BEFORE you start investing (with the exception of 401k savings that come with an employer match). That is a tried and tested rule that many millions of people have found reliable, so violate it at your peril. Once your income gets into the 6 figure range, and/or once you have total savings of at least 3-5 times your annual income, perhaps you can relax it to 3 months of income, but that's years from now. At your stage you really want 6 months, because here's the thing: your teeth ARE going to get fucked up, your car IS going to breakdown, and you WILL end up unemployed for a few months. These might seem like "emergencies" but we know right now they are going to happen so it would be dumb to construct a personal finance plan that isn't robust enough to handle them. Otherwise, when the first "emergency" inevitably comes along, your whole plan is going to fall to shit. The emergency plan is like the "cheat meals" people build into successful diets: we know the fuck up is coming, so we forestall disaster by building it into the plan.


> Retirement?

OK so we now have your priorities established: (1) make the minimum payment on your student loans, (2) get the 401k match, if any, (3) get a couple months of cash in a checking account so you're not hitting zero all the time, (4) establish an emergency account ASAP - say, $500 a month until you have 6 months in there, (5) pay off any student loans with an interest rate 6% or higher.

The NEXT step is explicitly starting to save for retirement. It will probably take you a year before this makes sense to do. Over the course of this year, you are getting your fiscal house in order: figuring out how much you need to spend every month to be a happy healthy person, establishing a bulwark against "emergencies," getting that free money 401k match, and starting to dent at your debt burden. Once all that's set, then you can start tackling retirement directly. If you skip those steps, you will take one step forward, then two steps back: you'll hit overdraft your checking account and have to pay a $35 fee, or your car will break down and you'll have to put the repair bill on a credit card with a stupid high interest rate, or you'll default on student loans and ruin your credit. Etc. That shit will totally hamstring you so deal with it first.


A year from now, you start saving per se for retirement. How much? Well, I say . . . fucking, all of it. I want out of this rat race as soon as possible. Keep your "nut" (monthly expenses) as low as you can, do 1-5, and then put the rest in a low fee broker account where you practice a sensible investment policy. I am a big believer in value investing and the Magic Formula, so if you want my advice, read that book, take it in, and learn to invest. You'll also do fine if you just invest in the S&P 500. DON'T TRADE A LOT, you will shoot yourself in the foot with taxes and fees. Interactive Brokers is an exceptionally low fee and versatile online brokerage account I highly recommend, but it is not user friendly, so be forewarned - you need to RTFM with that site.


I hope that's helpful for you. In case your interested, here's my story with this stuff. I am now 29 and have approximately one year of my current income in savings, which is approximately 4 times what I spend in a year (so I consider it 4 years of savings). When I got out of college, at 22 I made about 1/3 of what I do now, and I spent it ALL. I was lucky enough not to have student debt (rich uncle!) and to have the sense to get my full employee match (100%, up to 4%, so I was effectively saving 8% a year) but beyond that I just enjoyed myself. I am a good worker and got big raises each year, so I was making about 50% more three years later . . . But still basically spending it all. I then somehow got a hold of David Ramsey's book, The Total Money Makeover, which I highly recommend (though it's not the gospel - refinements are ok), and decided to get my shit together. I found that I could cut my spending in half without being any less happy or healthy. I live in a city and ride a bicycle everywhere and workout in a city rec center that costs me $150 a year, I have two sturdy suits 5 pairs of pants and 5 shirts for work and a pair of levis and some button downs for life, a netflix subscription, an $25 aerial on my tv for watching live sports, and a library card. I cook most of my own meals which I enjoy and am getting very good at. I give myself $150 a month for alcohol and bars which is plenty for 3-4 big bar tabs with friends and that's all you friggin' should drink anyway. I get a new phone every 3 years and use the minimum plan. Travel is important to me so I spend $3-4k a year on it - pick your battles. Still, by my estimations, if I make the same amount I do now, I'll be ready to retire before 40, but my goal is to be done with offices by 35 through solid investing and continuing to work my ass off and get raises at work. Incidentally, no, they don't all hate me at work, and none of my friends think I'm cheap, because I'm not - I can buy someone a drink without blowing up my budget. But I am personally content to live frugally and work hard and get out of this fucking rat race ASAP.

I can only say my experience doing the university thing and this is US based. Choose your major wisely... and finance it wisely (often masters you can get some support in my day 1/2 support, and PhDs should be free i.e. full support). Typically masters degrees pay and PhDs don't in the long run do much better than masters... PhDs are more an interest thing... do you want to do that or does your field need that. PhDs often start at a higher salary, but masters degree people start working sooner and can work their way up in the company. For full disclosure I did the PhD thing and I'm somewhat recently retired so my perspective has some age to it in US... I know less about now.

Once your working employers will often pay for advanced degrees like MBAs, or a masters, or some even PhDs. This is company specific of course and I'm speaking in US. This however can take a long time and be difficult -- both working and going to school.

Starting your own company. Not saying no... I use to work for a startup company. But what others have said -- it's risky -- and so it has to be what you want to do and you have to be prepared to work at it... i.e. most business fail on the first go and maybe many times. The old joke... the reason why most successful entrepreneurs succeeded is that didn't give up. In many businesses a hit rate of one in five for new projects is pretty good. So people talk about wanting to fail fast. The other thing I say about starting businesses -- if you didn't put in all or at least the majority stake of the capital you don't own it -- and your working for someone else... i.e. your a manager not an owner.

The other direction in the US that gets paid pretty well is the trades. Bottom line whatever you choose do something that is highly skilled so you have good negotiating power OR work your way up in management OR run your own business... my opinion these are often the best options in terms of being paid. They all have their own pros and cons.

Also don't do something just for the money... it has to be you too... but it's good to consider pay too. I often suggest as a strategy getting a jobs book like https://www.amazon.com/Jobs-Rated-Almanac-Best-Them/dp/1511528850 and just go down the list from high pay to low, and pick one the the higher paying jobs you like, think you can do, or can get the training for.

Unless I remember incorrectly, multiple income streams is a point made in https://www.amazon.com/Early-Retirement-Extreme-Philosophical-Independence/dp/145360121X I vaguely recall something in there mentioning combining income from a job + investments + paid hobby (maybe fixing bikes) + savings account interest... or something which was heavily lopsided haha.

​

As far as I am concerned, nearly everyone seeking early FI is working with multiple sources of income:

1. job income
   
2. investments
   
   ​
   
   For other paid activities (really, gambling?... sigh....) I have a dual opinion on them. First off, if you have enough extra time, energy, and motivation to earn income through some other stream then sure you have more income AND it has the really important benefit that even after you quit your day job you can keep doing it if you enjoy it. On the other hand, I value my free time not quite as the following, but it gives you a general idea: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/10/18/why-your-time-is-worth-way-more-than-25-per-hour/ Now, I do not fully agree with a bit of what MMM writes about, as far as I can tell he is intentionally extreme just to make the point more memorable. However, the general point about time being valuable is something I do agree with. Sure, I could pick up a part-time job, I could learn to write novels and hope to be one of the precious few earning something noticeable, or plenty of other things. None of them are worth the time I would trade doing them I personally think. That being said, I will sometimes go beyond what is reasonable to sometimes cut costs, example walking a very stupidly long distance to-from work instead of just taking the bus, however that is done because it is also fun. A different example is hand washing clothes, absolutely not worth the time put into it, but the realization that I am doing something silly like that is amusing to me...

> (though you probably have fancy investor resources already telling you more than I could)

Haha very doubtful but I will definitely take you up on that.

This one below is the best for long distance RE investing. I am half way through it and from experience he's spot on. Rich Dad/Poor Dad is good if you want to learn more on why RE is a great investment in general. Real Estate Riches is good too.
https://www.amazon.com/Long-Distance-Real-Estate-Investing-State/dp/0997584750

https://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dad-Poor-Teach-Middle-ebook/dp/B0175P82RA/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1520516088&sr=1-1&keywords=rich+dad+poor+dad

https://www.amazon.com/Real-Estate-Riches-Bankers-Advisors/dp/0446678643/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1520516104&sr=1-3&keywords=real+estate+riches&dpID=51FsqaAKejL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch

That presupposes I'm interested in convincing you. You know it's funny, while your post inspired my initial response the reason I laid it out with the challenge at the end was to see if this community (well known as staunchly anti-crypto) could lay forth a convincing argument about why it would be wrong or why I should pull my money out. Perhaps something about the limitations of the technology, discussion of the effect of a recession or a potential black swan event I hadn't considered that showed someone had actually taken an objective look at the value proposition of bitcoin/cryptos and said I can't possibly add this to my portfolio. Instead what I mostly see are tired outdated talking points about crypto and ideology (index funds > all) of FI as outlined by people like MMM. There's nothing wrong with the principle tenets of FI and I follow them very closely but I also actively look at my portfolio to see how it can be enhanced or diversified through various investment instruments with varying levels of risk. Your OP represented to me that this sub would rather just not think about anything other than 3 fund portfolio index funds. Perhaps that's fine for the average person but I can't help but take a critical eye to everything I do with my money to maximize return while minimizing risk. Hence why I think bitcoin/crypto is worthy of discussion in this forum and further why I think it should be part of your portfolio (however small that may be). In any case, I find it humorous because we're coming from opposite ends where you say my argument is the 'least shitty' while I look at the likely thousands of people who have entered this topic and not one could provide a definitive argument of why my challenge is wrong or why I should not invest. It's almost disappointing that some of the smartest people on the planet gathered into this community with incredible foresight and outside the box thinking toward FI could not come up with something better.
You in particular have offered less than nothing, implicitly agreeing that I am correct with my challenge and even outright trying to misinterpret the spirit of the question to somehow turn it against me. Sad, really but that's the state of things. Many will come around to this space when it's too late or not at all but I suppose that is their loss, not mine.


In any case, if I were to indulge your supposed good faith inquiry as to why you should invest in bitcoin or otherwise, I would start by reading the white papers for Bitcoin and Ethereum. It will help you understand the first generation of a public blockchain as compared to the second generation which offers greater versatility than a simple digital distributed ledger.


A good book to read on why cryptos are a good investment would be the one I linked below. They highlight a lot of why an uncorrelated asset like bitcoin, despite the risk and volatility, actually reduces the risk of your overall portfolio.


If you're interested in a professional trader's opinion, I would check out this video by Bob Loukas on the "bitcoin cycle". He specializes in asset bubbles and believes bitcoin operates like an emerging asset going through several cycles as adoption increases. It's tied to the economic policy built into bitocin via the halvening, cutting supply issuance in half per block every 4 years.

Here's another interesting article for the case of a small allocation of bitcoin.

Searching youtube for Andreas Antonopoulos, he talks a lot more theory about why bitcoin is revolutionary.



There are other resources of course but frankly I think we are wasting key strokes on one another. It is quite likely one of us will be thoroughly embarrassed in the next few years and I really don't think it will be me.

Hello! Also from Ontario Canada! The best advice I can give you is.... Spend less than you make (create a budget and stick to it), pay off all your credit cards in full every month, try to keep the life style creep to a minimum, and live in a low cost of living (LCOL) area (if you can).

In terms of buying vs renting there are calculators for that and it's personal choice, but try not to buy more house than you can handle (we live in the GTA so house prices are crazy right now...) If you can live with your parents for a while, you can save a lot of money that way too (just contribute to the household!! If not in cash, at least do the dishes and laundry or something...!).

If you want to buy and do nice things, budget and save for them! Striving towards FI doesn't mean you have to live like a pauper... But be reasonable and have your ultimate goal in mind.

Some nice books to read (that are Canadian!) Would be Millionaire Teacher by Andrew Hallam and The Wealthy Barber/The Wealthy Barber Returns by David Chilton (you can just borrow from the library as an e-book or actual book!).

Since you are unionized and have a pension, I would say max out your TFSA first (check out the index fund model portfolios from Canadian Couch Potato and then your RRSP (whatever room you have left after your pension adjustment) and once you still have money left over open a marginal account (if you you are married by then,max out both those accounts for your spouse before you open any marginal accounts).

Also, read the side bar and the stickied posts. Enjoy your journey to FI. It's important to plan for the future, but you shouldn't forget to enjoy the present as well!

Congrats. You're going to find a bunch of the advice in this sub aren't really geared towards that level of wealth. I've known quite a few people with similar experiences though, and the recommended approach is:

1. Stop. Don't spend it, change lifestyle, etc... just get psychologically used to having it for ~6 months.
   
   
2. Hire a good CPA. Most people here don't need one, but you do. Taxes get really complicated, structuring when to realize gains gets complicated, AMT calculations are weird, and if this involves private company stock everything I just suggested counts doubly. Don't wait until April, start getting references and talking to them now. (side note: also get used to filing extensions and paying quarterly estimates... welcome to the world of wealth)
   
   
3. Get a copy of The Challenges of Wealth (out of print, but available used) and A Random Walk Down Wall Street. Nothing will shape your philosophical view of wealth and investing like those two books.
   
   There's tons of other things you'll figure out like setting up a trust for heirs, deciding on the right investment plans, determining your personal SWR, etc... Most of the advice here is geared towards people with <~ $1M assets. Now you're at the stage where you can engage in non-trivial philanthropy, angel invest in startups, invest in VC/hedge funds, or borrow against your portfolio at incredibly low interest rates.

Can I ask what you did as a career? Would it be possible to go back to work, but downshift gradually to retirement over time? What hobbies do you enjoy? Are there any you've wanted to pick up?

There's a book called Retire Happy, Wild and Free. It's mainly targeted towards older folks, but it covers the non-financial aspects of retirement pretty well. Also you might want to check out early-retirement.org. Again, it skews older, but it's a very good site that's a good deal more relaxed than bogleheads.org.

>i am ready to open a Roth IRA and Brokerage, so i did with Fidelity.

>...

>i feel like just dumping all my money into Vanguard Target Retirement 2060 isn't the best idea

It's perfectly OK to have your investments in a target date fund while you learn more. Given your Roth IRA & brokerage are with Fidelity, the Freedom Index target date funds will be just fine (the Freedom funds without "Index" in the name are more expensive).

>i do want to actually learn a little more than "just dump your money in this target date fund"

The Bogleheads Wiki is a great place to start. There are links to a high-level page on lazy portfolios and specific pages for the Three-fund Portfolio, etc. The page on tax-efficient fund placement will likely be useful as your brokerage account increases.

Personally, I recognized there is value in simplicity. To that end, I work toward a version of a Three-fund portfolio myself. While I do not tilt toward small caps or specific sectors (like REIT), I do have a portion of my bond holdings in an intermediate tax-exempt fund.

Take your time. Consider developing an Investment Policy Statement. Read a book or two. Of course, posting here and/or the Bogleheads forum are great for providing context & examples or clarifying concepts along the way. Let some of the concepts sink in and ruminate before actually changing your portfolio.

Congrats on cleaning out that debt! I know the great feeling I had when we finished off my wife's student loans, you really can't beat it.

Just putting in my two cents here. The book "The Millionaire Teacher" has a great section on things to watch out for in Financial Advisers (link). They also list typical things Financial Advisers will say and how to respond to them. Great ammo for any meeting with one.

That being said, if you are confident in your principles of investing (indexing, expense ratios, stocks/bonds mix) AND you understand HOW the Edward Jones guy is being compensated, then you may consider the meeting.

Even with all that, I wouldn't allocate any significant portion of my stash with anybody from Edward Jones.

Personally I like to meet with people like this. I like to bust their balls and see how well they know investments, early retirement, tax law, picking stocks, what their personal investments look like, insurance (for early retirees), education level, trading experience, net worth, etc. It's like being a black belt in personal finance and checking out a rival school to see what they have to offer (or not offer).

I disagree.

1. Her data/methods are probably decent. Published in a good peer reviewed journal so it's probably decent. Your critiques on sample and that size correlation =/= causation are pretty basic, and have probably been covered by the peer reviewers. I doubt these are actual problems in the studies, otherwise they wouldn't make it past peer review.
   
   
2. There's quite a bit of research on this subject already.
   Elizabeth Dunn, the study author, has performed some pretty extensive studies on how to spend your money for happiness. See her book (https://www.amazon.com/Happy-Money-Science-Happier-Spending/dp/1451665075) and her google scholar citations (https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=lwFe1V8AAAAJ&hl=en). Also see journal articles like:
   http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2012-34884-001
   http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2009-24670-006
   https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-007-7368-4_3
   
   While the literature's pretty consistent there are a few counter arguments (e.g. https://academic.oup.com/jcr/article-abstract/36/2/188/1942750), which leads me to the third point:
   
   
3. A few of your points can be summed up as 'more research needed' and 'this isn't definitive'. Fair enough--more research is pretty much always needed in the social sciences. It doesn't discredit the validity of these results and the great number of other empirical studies supporting the idea that buying time is a better way to get happiness than buying stuff.
   
   If you have studies contradicting her results I'd love to read them.

I definitely am not an expert but I love MMM and he did an article on it where he laid out five steps: Mr Money Mustache: A Lifetime of Riches – Is it as Simple as a Few Habits?
https://gj837.app.goo.gl/bmDzVGYnZTUiyo9e2


He also recommended this book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/081298160X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_-iDDAbJ3S0HD2


I can't say I've read the book as I still have established a consistent reading habit like I would like to do. ;) But, it's well reviewed on Amazon.

>s is the point where our friends (and people in general) have kids, and that starts taking up their brainpo

I've done the same thing as a single female who is bored in her career by this point. I got a Cleverfox planner, and I also subscribed to Happify which has various tracks. I chose some goal setting tracks that helped me build short and long term goals. The shortest personal goals I have are weekly goals, which makes it less stressful than daily goals (which the panda planner advocates). I highly recommend both Cleverfox planner and Happify. I'm sure others have found what works for them, so please do chime in.

I've had a few people that quit working and struggled with habits since everything was anchored around their workday. They used Fabulous successfully to maintain structure in the day. I haven't had as much luck with Fabulous as I tend to keep few habits (other than going to work). But I love having goals, a pinterest vision board, etc. I also picked up my musical hobbies from when I actually had time in my younger years. I'm really enjoying learning to play a new instrument at 29. I still want to get back into art and pick up kick boxing. Usually people reinvent themselves and re-align to find purpose ever decade (20, 30, 40, 50, etc.), pick up a marathon, etc.

It was not an easy journey to get here though. About a month ago, I was in a depressive work rut with a crappy new boss, unchallenging work, no room for advancement, etc. People on here were telling me to get a therapist. But, I realized that this crappy work life was a great opportunity to focus on myself for once. The pay is decent and so were the hours. It's incredibly difficult to derive all your identity and fulfillment with work, since it's not something that is a constant or stable.

Edit: Adding links to mentioned products...

Cleverfox planner: https://www.amazon.com/Clever-Fox-Planner-Organizer-Productivity/dp/B079GXFR7S

I also bought colorful markers to use on it bc I'm visual...

Happify (motivation and goal setting tracks) https://happify.com/

Fabulous (build habits): https://blog.thefabulous.co/

​

This is true, but what increases exponentially also decreases exponentially. The thing is that when you are trading capitalized assets, prices can swing wildly because things are traded on multiple basises. I made the mistake, for example, diversifying across businesses that do not exist in 2010-2011. In fact, I am famous/infamous for it in some circles I would suppose. Discount what I say accordingly.

Made a million by making roughly 20x my money across a handful of companies that exist. Lost everything early 2011. Took a year off and got started a different way. Haven't made much progress if you mark everything to market right now but I am still making more in stocks than my job, as has always been the depressing case. Meanwhile, I'm interested in some sort of income stream that pays me more along the lines of what I am worth as I have a history of making/saving millions everywhere I go.

I have a book recommendation:
http://www.amazon.com/100-stock-market-distinguished-opportunities/dp/0070497729

Anyway, with what you are doing, you can fairly easily secure your future income stream and open your life up for a lot of alternatives. I work with a few people that are in your neck of the woods, making millions but not really having the capacity to turn those millions around into income producing assets.

Losing everything has given me a perspective that I will never lose. An asset is only an asset to the extent that it pays you to take responsibility for it. I prefer assets that I do not have to monitor and I can let go.

If you want to do a hands off lazy way that will likely annualize 20%+ returns per year I recommend the mutual fund FNSAX. There's a book on that too. The guy that created it is Joel Greenblatt and he annualized 40% for 20 years. I can provide you this one as a pdf but here is the amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/Little-Still-Market-Books-Profits/dp/0470624159/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381436121&sr=1-1&keywords=the+little+book+that+beats+the+market

Congratulations on your success. It's not every day that you get to run into someone who has lived out your worst fear, losing everything (that's me!). Haha, well. I'd be glad to take a look at what you are doing and let you know if I think your weaknesses are, but the parting wisdom that I want to leave you with is to really assess the extent of that which you do not know. If you don't know investments, diversification is your protection. Use it. Diversify as much as possible across asset classes.

Again, I don't know anything about you. But this is me: http://bit.ly/1WggNE

I honestly don't know much about insurance in the US, but term life insurance is almost always the way to go. I'd recommend searching /r/PersonalFinance for the name of the company to see if anything pops up.

As for the last part... that's why I recommend reading a simple book on investing. I'm assuming a modest cash buffer of about 6x your monthly expenses and then investing the rest.

Most people here will recommend investing in cheap, broad index funds, usually by instances like Vanguard. Popular funds as far as I know are VTSAX for stocks and BND for bonds.

Just to reiterate: Just pick up The Bogleheads Guide to Investing. Your future self will thank you.

Not a FI book, but I've really enjoyed The Power of Habit (Feel free to PM me for PDF). It really opened my eyes to how good AND bad habits are made, and how to improve myself in a way that works. It also gave me a new perspective to understand how people operate, which has been enlightening in more ways than one.

> I have a few friends (Canada) that have been bragging about how great of a return they've been getting on investing in weed corporations jumping on the green rush coming. I was so tempted to take a chunk of cash and invest it, but realistically it would have been a huge portion of our finances.

>I've read before "don't invest what you can't afford to lose," with this in mind I haven't let myself get upset over missing some investment opportunities. Even if I could be a little further ahead with some high-risk investments, I am happy that we've followed our own plan and stuck to it.

Don't give in to the temptation. At this point, "investing" in weed stocks is really just gambling. There's a lot of hype and uncertainty and the people closest to the flame are most likely to get burned. Look what happened with cryptocurrency.

Slow and steady wins the race. Keep dumping money into index funds. If weed stocks become a significant portion of the economy, you'll get a piece of the action through your funds but at the same time, you'll be insulated from most of the potential downside by being diversified.

I highly recommend that you read A Random Walk down Wall Street: The Time-tested Strategy for Successful Investing.

Ernie Zelinski

Robert Wringham

Almost everyone here and all the discussion is about techniques to help people get FI, but not what to do afterwards. As anyone who has been here a while knows, it's just not that complicated. I think the "what to do afterwards" part is extremely interesting and needed in this space. My wife and I are sort of half-way to FI right now, and we are questioning the wisdom of continuing to sprint towards the goal, rather than throttle back and let it happen slowly.

I am reading How to Retire Happy, Wild, and Free right now, recently finished Escape Everything!, and finished up the entire back-catalogue of the New Escapeologist Magazine a few months back. I think these two guys would have a lot to offer.

100% agree. Read https://www.amazon.com/Titan-Life-John-Rockefeller-Sr/dp/1400077303 and then tell me you wouldn't want that lifestyle...

The guy semi-retired in his early 50's to play golf and live a life of luxury in his various manor homes. He lived until 97, money seems to have done a great job of keeping him alive.


Medicine is bad? Chicago university wouldn't exist without him and his huge bankroll, His money was almost singlehandedly responsible for curing ringworm in destitute southerners (and curing other illnesses and maladies) too. A huuuuge amount of modern medicine is thanks to John D & his willingness to fund medical research.

I mean sure he couldn't play angry birds... But the guy was rich enough to have stables built in Manhattan so he could race the worlds finest horses with his brother through central park. Toward his later years he was able to afford the worlds best cars in the world and professional drivers to take him for drives. Sure, they weren't as quick as a modern sports car, but i doubt he really cared.. Reliability? He could buy 100 of them, no problem.

The impact John D and even his son, John D Jr had on areas such as medicine and the arts is mind boggling. The New York MoMA nor the Cloisters would exist without them. (Jr and his wife co-founded the MoMA, donated the land & an incredible amount of art work to it. HE DIDN'T EVEN LIKE MODERN ART, HE HATED IT.) John D Jr gave more money to medical research and charity than he gave to his own damn family.

The amount of charitable giving they did (most of it anonymous) is insane. They bought entire forests to save them, donated huge chunks of land to be national parks, etc.

The United Nations? The land the headquarters is built on in Manhattan - Jr donated that.

Versailles in France? Jr was posthumously awarded France's highest honor, the Grand-Croix de la Legion d'honneur for contributing huge sums of money (with no requirement for any recognition, public attention, etc.. If anything he worked incredibly hard to HIDE his involvement) to the repair efforts because he thought it was an important building for the French people.

These are people who on multiple occasions would pay double or triple the asking price of famous art works to the ire of their friends and colleagues who wanted to acquire them, because while others in their social circle wanted to horde them in their private collections, they wanted to buy them so they could be donated and on show for all of the public, not just the rich elite.

If I could have my life today, or be transferred to John D or John D Jr's era and have 1/10th the impact on humanity that they had, its a total no brainer. Yes, John D committed some unsavoury (monopolistic) business practices... So did everyone else in that era. He was a devout baptist who practiced philosophy and frugality (he was far, far less spendy than anyone remotely comparable) from his youth as a broke assistant bookkeeper to his dying days as a titan of industry.

> It's my love language, as stupid as that is.

I don't think that's stupid at all. That book is one of my favorites of all time. I've found it super useful in many of my relationships. (And as an aside, because I'm not really sure what my son's language is, I try to make sure I'm hitting them all!)

Not FIRE yet. But I loved reading "Happy Money" for scientific understanding of what kind of spending makes us happy and what doesn't.

http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Money-Science-Happier-Spending/dp/1451665075

I hear you. I'm more in the, "I can find just about anything to be interesting, but not a lot to be professionally passionate about." The book So Good They Can't Ignore You really helped me adjust my attitude, expectations, and strategy for my career.

Important: always get a signed contract before you start doing any work! The few times when I've lost money/gotten stiffed have been times where the client was "just working out some details" and I got started in good faith, only to have them flake out on me.

There are wonderful sample agreements in these books (with explanations of what everything means), they helped me understand all the legal and tax issues when I was getting started, and I customized my standard contract off theirs.

http://www.nolo.com/products/working-for-yourself-wage.html

http://www.amazon.com/Web-Software-Development-Legal-Guide/dp/1413300871

Not OP, but I am assuming he is referring to Jacob Fisker's book.

I'm actually reading it now and have about 30 pages left. In general, I love a lot of the principles in the book. To many, the cost savings measures might seem too extreme as Fisker is definitely on the lean lean side of FIRE. That being said, I think he makes great arguments for just about every topic he touches on, I'm not sure I'd be so receptive to the ideas in the book if I had started my FI journey with it though.

I do some frivolous spendings once in a while. E.g., travel a bit, buy some new gadgets, basically keep myself happy without getting burnt out. Also suggest you read "Happy Money": http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Money-Science-Happier-Spending/dp/1451665075

I highly recommend A Random Walk down Wall Street as a resource to learn about, and the best way to invest in, the stock market.

No, I am more interested in privately holding properties in IN and my hometown in AL.

That one is still a work in progress. Getting very close to pulling the trigger on my first property, though.

One of the more useful books I've come across is:

• https://www.amazon.com/Long-Distance-Real-Estate-Investing-State/dp/0997584750

Link to the book for those interested: https://www.amazon.com/Love-Languages-Secret-that-Lasts/dp/080241270X

edit: free quiz, from author, to learn your 'language' http://www.5lovelanguages.com/profile/ . Book prob available at your local library.

I think you should start out doing this after you have eliminated your debt and built up an emergency fund. Do not forget to work out a budget for yourself. Get an idea of where you are spending your money and where you can eliminate nonessentials. However, you should also put money aside to further diversify your holdings - maybe real estate, REITs, something along these lines. You do not want everything tied to just the stock market.

Make a goal for yourself to read some money books, gather info on investing, minimizing risk and maximizing your returns.

If you do not know what to read then I recommend starting with any one of these 3 books:

Your Money or Your Life: http://www.amazon.com/Your-Money-Life-Transforming-Relationship-ebook/dp/B0052MD8VO/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=8-1&qid=1420819430

The four pillars of Investing: http://www.amazon.com/Four-Pillars-Investing-Building-Portfolio-ebook/dp/B0041842TW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420819486&sr=8-1&keywords=The+Four+Pillars+of+Investing

MONEY Master the Game: 7 Simple Steps to Financial Freedom: http://www.amazon.com/MONEY-Master-Game-Financial-Freedom-ebook/dp/B00MZAIU4G/ref=pd_sim_kstore_9?ie=UTF8&refRID=12D5S57JYCVNH5C0FX99

Use the time you have now to start building your nest egg and save muuuch more then 10% a year - something like 50% or higher if you can and you can choose to stop working much sooner then the 67 they have us pegged for.

Read this book:

The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It https://www.amazon.com/dp/0887307280/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_JMjdBbQQQEE10

The sooner you go from the employee to the business owner the sooner you'll start building a company and huge wealth.

You should read The Millionaire Teacher, it's the best DIY investor book I have come across and it's built for Americans and Canadians (I think the author was a Canadian working in Singapore).

I'm not the one you asked, but my library had Your Money or your life very FI book, highly recommend!

Is there any way you can study during your commute? Books if you're taking public transportation, or podcasts/audiobooks if you're driving?

Also, I read this book (borrowed it from the library of course) and really enjoyed it: The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business. It's helped me change a couple of my habits to be more productive.

You, sir, need to read The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing. That or just read around the Bogleheads wiki. This page is a good place to start.

Read E-Myth Revisited and Built to Sell.

Get help from someone who's done it before. Some sources:
http://e-myth.com
http://www.thesellabilityscore.com/

You're going to feel like deleting your comment. https://www.amazon.com/Your-Money-Life-Transforming-Relationship-ebook/dp/B0052MD8VO

https://www.amazon.com/Early-Retirement-Extreme-Philosophical-Independence/dp/145360121X

Thank you! I thought the father of FIRE was Jacob Lund Fisker? ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/145360121X )