Best products from r/firewater

To be perfectly frank this recipe doesn't make much sense as an all-grain at all. If anything it's a relative of UJSSM, where grains are being added just for flavor, and are giving no fermentable sugars at all. I don't offer that to be cruel, good AG recipes are hard to find, just to say that wherever you got this recipe, I wouldn't get any more AG recipes from their. Here are the issues:

1. Almost zero saccharification of the corn and very little of the rest of the grain. You have just shy of 15 lbs of grain going into 5 gallons of water, 8.5 of which is corn. 8.5 lbs of just corn is a reasonable amount of grain for that amount of water, but a 3lbs per gallon ratio of grain to water is completely unworkable. If that much grain actually saccharified you would have something the consistency of damp clay. Keep in mind that polenta, which is just boiled corn, is 1 cup cornmeal to 4-5 parts water, that's enough for oatmeal consistency.
   
   You can solve this by grinding your corn. Cracked corn is truly godawful for sacch efficiency. Corn has the densest of all starch reserves for any grain, but it accomplishes that by having an incredibly organized and packed in starch reserve which cannot be pulled out lightly. I don't know why cracked corn is so ubiquitous in AG recipes, but that grind size is, without exaggeration, several hundred times larger than what is workable by enzymes and boiling water. Whiskey; Technology, Production, and Marketing has the numbers on grind size but if you need proof go buy a lb of cornmeal and make polenta. It's the exact same species of corn (dent) but finely ground. Cracked corn is likely so popular because its cheap (less than 10 for a 50 lb bag at any feed store) and seemingly ungrindable (no brew store will ever grind corn for you because brew stores use either rolling or hammer mills which crush, and corn don't like being crushed--I know microdistillers that can't grind their own corn because they are former brewers and accidentally bought a fancy rolling mill instead of plate or stone mills). Rest assured you can easily hand grind corn with something like this. It's labor intensive but that exact mill lasted me 3 years of hand-ground 50 gallon ferments.
   
   You can absolutely boil that corn, but it's not necessary, 190 strike water is fine IF your corn is ground. Neither boiling directly or striking are going to get you a real appreciable amount of corn sugar.
   
   
2. Terrible terrible conversion of pretty much all grain starches. That 20 lbs of DME is easily 2/3rds of your fermentable sugars by itself...and you only fermented about 2/3rds of your available sugars before the yeast quit. Either the starch isn't converting at all, or its partially converting but the beta phase is failing (which is a good likelihood as barley was pitched ONLY at 160f). The latter would explain why it passed the iodine test bit failed fermentation. You need to pitch both alpha and beta amylase to convert starch. Alpha breaks starches down into poly-saccharides, beta breaks polys into mono and disaccharides (gross but workable simplification). Alpha is happy from 150 to about 170, beta is happy from 140 to 155. Barley has both, so yoy can halve your barley and pitch at 160 and high 140s, or you can pitch once at 152. At 160 a good portion of your beta will completely denature leaving you with polysaccharides that are way to big for your yeast to eat.
   
   Sidenote: iodine should completely disappear with a good conversion. You should be able to add the recommended amount (everything will turn purple but not black) then shake for 30s at which point it should become such a light red as to be barely perceivable from the original color.
   
   
3. This leads us to retrogradation. I couldn't give you an established rate of retrogradation, but it starts just under boiling and goes until alpha comes in. I can tell you that 2+ hours is begging to retrograde. Luckily retrogradation is easy to solve. High-temp alpha is cheap and widely available and can be added while boiling. If you're dedicated to converting only with barley, add a little barley just after boil or strike, then split the remaining barley and pitch alpha at 160-165 and beta sub-150. Alpha will denature at sub boiling but it won't denature immediately, and will give you enough time to bring the temp down to alpha pitch.
   
   That being said you still need to bring temp down smoothly and evenly (I strike, give it maybe 15, then cool to temp in about 30 minutes). 2 hours is too long even with the above technique. This pump plus a little 1/4 inch copper coil is perfect for the job (I love these pumps, I use these little 15 dollar chinese pumps in my micrdistillert more than I do my "professional" microbrew chugger--which is an unmitigated piece of shit).
   
   This brings us to the last piece of the bad conversion puzzle. Your instinct to add backset in during boil is right, in fact that pretty much the obly reason to add backset. You need to adjust ph down to 5.5 at room temp. 7 won't kill your enzymes (because they aren't alive) but it will slow them down, and between temp and the relatively low amount of barley you're using, they beed all the speed they can get. Get a good digital meter, strips are way too inaccurate.
   
   A good conversion will have the texture of flat soda (and you can easily get 1.05-06 just with grain). The kind of thing that isn't thick at all but if spilled will obviously quickly turn movie-theater-floor sticky.
   
   
4. yeast pitch is a bit high, DADY is very rough and tumble but it prefers 78 and will make a much better whiskey (which much bigger hearts) at 68-72.
   
   
   
   Finally about equipment. A 10 gal pot is absolutely fine for cooking whiskey. You can get a big mash tun but it's going to extremely expensive for any size that's beneficial. You're much better off just doing batches and consolidating then in a big fermentor (and yes the trash can thing is disheartening, but unfortunately distilling is rapidly rising in popularity so a ton of people are trying to jump on the bandwagon and fleece people ready to start a new hobby).
   
   You can just add boiling water into a big fermentor and add grain but 1) you need all the boiling water all at once, you can't be cooling and then reheating, 2) you'll need to add some commercial alpha at grain pitch (the corn will clump otherwise), and 3) you should ferment on grain to make up for some list efficicency.
   
   The absolutely most efficient highest yield method that a homedistiller can do is boil the corn in the water for 2 hours (use a grain bag and false bottoms can be cheaply made), squeeze out the grain after conversion, then add 170f degree water back into the spent grain, squeeze out the grain again and then ADD THE GRAIN TO THE FERMENTOR (I have tested it and squeezing the grain a second time but still adding the grain to the ferment does in fact produce a marginal improvement in yield over both 2 squeezes no grain and one squeeze, 170f water, no secind squeeze and ferment on grain). But there is always a point of diminishing returns, like I said a 200f strike is plently efficient to be economical and while I could drive another 10% out, corn is much less expensive than time.

I know the guys who wrote this. It goes pretty in depth regarding their startup procedure.

If there is no craft size license, you may be looking at $20k in distilling license fees. Also, you cannot run this out of a residence. So you have to set up the stills in a commercial/manufacturing property and submit a floor plan to have it inspected. Then wait 6 months while the paperwork goes through.

Basically, year one costs would be something like this.

License - $300-22,000 in NY, depending on size. This includes an insurance bond with the state, which will run a couple of grand

Commercial Real estate Lease - $24k-40k/year. You'll be paying this with your equipment all in place while you wait for the license to get approved. Also, you may have some zoning issues or need to go through a local approval situation.

Stills and other equipment- you already have some, but you will need to scale up from hobbyist size if you want to be able to produce enough quantity, I'd put a minimum of $5k in for a larger still/tanks. And thats still something you will ideally outgrow. But a new still could mean more licensing approvals in your state.

Ingredients- Use your current input cost to product yield and imagine running your current setup every day, all day. Your current still size will determine how much volume you can put out to start. Say you're running a 10 Gal still, yielding about 2.5gal of good proofed product per run, with a mash bill around $40/run, your raw materials cost is around $4/liter. Couple dollars for bottling, your just over $5 per 750ml of product, before aging. 2.5 gal/day for about the 120 days you'll be able to legally run after the permit comes in gives you 300 gallons of product you can make during your first year.

Storage/Aging- Depending on the product you're putting out, you're either barreling or selling moonshine. Good thing about moonshine, you can start selling right away. Bad thing, people don't want to pay craft distiller prices for moonshine. What you barrel is going away for a while, and you'll need a place to store it. Plus the cost of barrels if you can get them. Say you're aging everything for 1 year in 5gallon new oak barrels running you $80 each, thats 60 barells, or $4800. And you'll get about 250 gallons out of the barrels if you are lucky.

So 1.5 yrs after you start the process, you could possibly start bottling your product. You'll want to wait until you have several barells that have matured before you start blending. In your first year, you made 100 cases of whiskey, which can come to market around the end of year 2, during which you've been running that still like crazy. You even bought another small still to double production to almost 1000 gal of whiskey in year 2.

My rough math puts you at around $2000k with the excise tax on the whiskey that comes off the still for the first 2 years. You'll need to put this out before you can really bring something to market, and thats assuming you do everything. Bring in outside labor will cost you another $20k/year for some part time help. Then you gotta figure out the sales part. Thats a whole other ball game. You could easily spend $250-300k before you start getting a solid revenue stream. Then, assuming sales are good and you sell 80% of your 5000 bottles produced/year at around $30/750ml wholesale, you're looking at around $120k revenue. Assuming sales and production scale up equally and steadily, you'll be turning a profit around year 4.

That might be a nice time to take your first paycheck.

Obviously, there are ways to do it cheaper, maybe you have a line on cheaper commercial rent, maybe you can get materials cheaper, maybe there is a farm distiller license in your state that brings your licensing costs way down.

But if you want to start one up with just $15k, I would find 10 other people with similar dreams, each of which have $15k to put in, and build a company together. Give yourself a fighting chance to fight through the taxes and beuracracy in order to bring your sweet sweet firewater to those of us who thirst.

TL:DR, I need some rich alcoholic friends.

personally i would go with something like this with one of these I believe that still also comes with tubing, clamps and a hookup to your faucet but i may be wrong. In which case those are easily ordered from amazon or ebay. This setup would be pretty close to the ease of the t500 due to the electric element, its also safe to run indoors (provided you leave a window open for ventilation) and the 2" triclamp leaves your options open for upgrades like a reflux column should you wish to produce neutral or vodka. I also want to add, a nice hdpe bucket like this and a airlock such as this are great to have. A filter like this comes in handy for filtering yeast and sediment out of mash. As far as extras you dont need much other than a mash bucket, airlock, and way to cool your still head. I personally run a 32gal trash can filled with water and a pond pump to to recirculate my water without any wasting any, but for a small apt i would just use the kitchen faucet and screw on a adaptor

I've made quite a bit. Technically to be rum it just has to be made from some variety of cane sugar and not distilled to over X % alcohol to preserve the flavor ( I forget exactly, but think it's somewhere around 80%). Most is made from molasses because it's an off product of sugar production and is hella cheap. Webresturantstore.com is a pretty good source for cheap molasses, I've had great luck with using the sulphur free blackstrap and adding plain white sugar to stretch it. I wrote a beginners guide to rum/distilling a while back, just a sort of 101 to help fill in knowledge gaps I ran into when I was learning (link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071HSK3WX) I've been giving it free to any reddit folks who want it, just DM me your email and I'll send a PDF. Think I had a thread about it on here back in 2017.

Making Pure Corn Whiskey is a popular one.

The Complete Distiller is a more general guide to distilling in general and is what I would recommend. It is not focused on whiskey though, but there is a ton of stuff to learn before making good whiskey becomes a thing.

As was mentioned, the best, more current resources are online. The two best are Home Distiller and Artisan Distiller. As well as /r/firewater.

But for a hands on gift about the topic either of those books would work just fine. The first being specifically whiskey focused.

1. CO2 is produced as a byproduct from the yeast, BUT CO2 will also get trapped in the fermented wash so you can get CO2 being released for a while. You can use the bubbles to determine if your fermentation has started and if there is activity happening, but once it drops below say 1 bubble every 2 or 3 seconds you can't really depend on it. The best test is a hydrometer, which is the most important tool you'll need with fermenting, and they only cost around $10. The money you save from not running washes too early will pay for this very quickly.
   
   2: Yes it's dangerous but not at the levels you'll be dealing with. For about a year I had 6 buckets 7 gallon fermenting in my room with new washes every week. It helped clean my sinuses while I slept but that's about it. So it's nothing to worry about at those levels.
   
   2: Better to switch to a different yeast. Red star dady distillers yeast is cheaper and better for vodka. Use turbo yeast for making fuel, not alcohol. No need to clear it before distilling. If all the fermentation has been completed the yeast will drop to the bottom, and you just siphon it out. If you want to be extra sure cold crash it.
   
   

>do you have any clamps/ gaskets you could suggest?


I just search for 2" Tri clamp on amazon and get what's cheapest. mind you it took me maybe a year to get all the pieces together when I built my system. something similar to these ones with the ferrules and the PTFE gaskets are great. I got a couple of those. there is a thing some guys do with certain wall thicknesses of copper where they can press fit the SS ferrule onto the pipe by freezing the SS and heating up the copper.

>Also can I pester you once I start putting all these components together?


please do. I'd be happy to see how your progress goes.

The Compleat distller, this one is extra nerdy i have read it multiple times , had to break out the highlighter though! it has all the details that you could ever imagine on distilling.

http://www.amphora-society.com/The-Compleat-Distiller-2nd-Edition--by-Nixon-and-McCaw_p_1.html

The Alaskan Bootlegger's bible is a very fun read! I would read the other suggestions in this thread for true, proper, safe and clean methods. There are a few questionable methods, but this book is intended as a humorous read into the cheap, backwoods booze making (beer, wine and sprits)

http://www.amazon.com/Alaskan-Bootleggers-Bible-Leon-Kania/dp/0967452406

The Home Distillers workbook was the first book i picked up was free on kindle one day It was a very straight forward read, nothing too complicated. built my first teapot setup that evening

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003T0GHKA/ref=nosim/?ascsubtag=FWbug785&tag=fatwalletcom&linkCode=as1

I apologize if my post is not formatted well, I dont post too much on reddit!

I liked the Alaskan Bootlegger's Bible. It's more of a brief intro into all things homebrew though. And despite the name (and the question) I probably wouldn't consider it a 'bible' of sorts, but I still think it is worth the mention. Just an easy, lighthearted, enjoyable read.

I built one of these to use as a stripping still since I ferment in 5 gallon buckets. It works great actually. At the basic level all you'd need to do is cut a hole in it and tig weld (or silver solder) a fitting into it for a water heater element. I'm using a $10 110v 1500w water heater element. Throw the sidebar Pot Still head on it and you're golden.

Cuts are easier and more precise on a larger still for sure, but many of us started out with a stove-top kettle and it is possible to make acceptable cuts at that size. My first few spirit runs were done with a 3 gallon wash capacity pot still I made from a 4 gallon stainless steel cooking pot and the sidebar pot still arm. I'd say it rivaled any bottom-shelf commercial product, but I could be biased. It was definitely acceptable drink to me and everyone I shared it with.

I say if that's what you have room for, go for it. It will work well for you and you can always upgrade later to larger sizes if you have room.

Mine came with a 40A 240V SSR (Solid State Relay). I've used it with both a 240V 1500W and a 120V 1200W element.

1. Make sure you use a heat-sink with your SSR.
   
2. Use thermally-conductive grease between the heat-sink and SSR.
   
3. Make sure your wiring is up to snuff.
   
   You are planning on using 240V to run the heater, right? That'll put you at just over 10A, which is nothing for that SSR. If you try to use 120V, you need to make sure that your circuit can stand it, and my guess is that it cannot. Most residential 120V circuits aren't meant for a 20A load, neither the wiring in the walls nor the plugs or receptacles; even though the circuit breaker might say 20A.
   
   Here is the one I used, I think. http://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-100-Thermostat-Temperature-Thermocouple/dp/B01489AQAW
   
   edit: I should confess that I know more about controls than I do about distiller boilers (not much). /u/sillycyco raises a good point. The PID controller that I linked switches too slowly; you might be able to tune it to work satisfactorily, but that would probably not work as well as a variac or thyristor based controller, or a combination of the two (which would be needlessly complex). Those SSRs are good though, and they're useful in either type of control system. I didn't like the one controller in your OP post though because I didn't see a triac in the kit and the kit doesn't list one; which would make it operate about as good as my wrong suggestion would have.
   
   edit2: The stilldragon site says SSR, but it's actually a Phase Angle Controller which isn't the same thing.

I'm at work so here is a quick and dirty list.

Compleat Distiller: Your Technical Resource

Excellent Forum

How To Brew: Tips on fermentation

The Joy of Home Distilling: Good Resource in general

Moonshine!: Great beginners Guide with simple recipes

I didn't learn much from that one. I found the following 3 far more informative. Enjoy your journey though, it's a great hobby!

https://www.amazon.com/Artisans-Guide-Crafting-Distilled-Spirits/dp/194301504X/ref=pd_aw_sim_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=WHB348J72EE0WGAR0GEX
https://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Whiskey-Step-Step/dp/1480174408/ref=pd_aw_sim_14_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=WHB348J72EE0WGAR0GEX
https://www.amazon.com/Joy-Home-Distilling-Ultimate-Moonshine/dp/1629145866/ref=pd_aw_sim_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G7YVR1NB2915DSV3KK4Q

Think I decided on heat set up.

this heater Heater comes triclamp ready with an endcap for 53 bucks

with this ferrule / triclamp kit
2 2" ferrules & 1 2" clamp for $15 delivered. The other 2 ferrules will be saved for a reflux later if this hobby sticks with me.


Thanks for your input, it really helped me decide... Off to study temp controllers. I noticed you linking to the stilldragon controller awhile back. The one you posted... was it the large or medium? The pics both look the same on the ausi site.

Do you mean 1/4 barrel? I'm making a Boka out of a 1/2 barrel keg (15.5 gal). Here's what I've bought:

5' of 2" copper DVW pipe - Local hardware store
25' of 1/4" copper refrigeration coil - Local hardware store
Stainless steel pot-scrubbers - Walmart

Clamp ferrule:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00835O0J6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

1500W heating element: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006IX89Q/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Fitting for heating element:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003GSL0S4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Triclamp:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ED2EZCK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Triclamp gasket: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013S1M75I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thermometer:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0198473E4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A24QHZSKPYNZBC

Flux:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000V88WJW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lead-free solder: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002JM8D6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I am going to start by forgoing the Liebig condenser as I don't think its terribly necessary and it can always be added easily just after the compression-fitted valve. The hardest part was finding 5' of copper pipe, everyplace wanted to sell me 10' and the prices were all over the place.

Hope this helps!

Thanks! Someone else has recommended filtration and I think that something like that plus your Pectinex suggestion would do it.

I really enjoyed The Home Distiller's Workbook. It's easy to understand, gives beginners a decent foundational knowledge (enough to get started), and includes some simple recipes at the end.

z32 is talking about a system to maintain a closed loop cooling system. So you don't have to add new cool water, just remove heat from reservoir water.

My original post was about basically making a fairly flat worm and blowing air over it to condense vapor. Just an idea I found intriguing, water cooling makes much more sense for most of us. I would imagine the small air cooled distillers use some form of this setup. [distiller] ( http://www.amazon.com/Water-Distiller-Countertop-Enamel-Collection/dp/B00026F9F8) alcohol vapor is much easier to condense than water vapor.

http://whitemulepress.com/

heres a list of ADI books which most you can buy off of amazon


http://www.amazon.com/Home-Distillers-Workbook-Making-Moonshine/dp/1469989395/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1450201049&sr=8-2&keywords=home+distilling

this is a pretty basic one. I would ignore the advice he gives to make a still. youll outgrow it pretty quickly and want to advance to something bigger

http://www.amazon.com/Kings-County-Distillery-Guide-Moonshining/dp/1419709909/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1450201049&sr=8-6&keywords=home+distilling

this book really basic and doesnt get into the science too much but is instead a real basic intro. sort of a cliff notes version. also doesnt get too much into distilling itself but is a decent starting place.


edit: added a different link to a website that has good books.

I don't have any pics of it, really, but here's their website:

https://www.amazon.com/Still-Spirits-Turbo-Copper-Alembic/dp/B00VAU0TG4/ref=asc_df_B00VAU0TG4/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198083537724&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13939341055624224609&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033391&hvtargid=pla-453154996277&psc=1

​

It looks like an old church coffee maker, but with a copper dome on top. Only change is that my controller is plugged in between it at the wall.

These distilling devices are perfectly legal in the US...

Not very practical for the purposes generally espoused in this subreddit however.

Credit to Kings County Distillery. Here is their graph of a "typical" run. I know there are a million variables that can change this but it's an interesting way to gauge what you are measuring off your own still.

Wish I could do something like that, My still just makes brandy.

> file:///C:/Users/ellyt_000/Downloads/White%20Mule%20Press%20Spring%202015%20Wholesale%20Catalog.pdf

Yep, Elly has a bug.

And let's clean up those links; here and here.

The Home Distiller's Workbook is a good straightforward guide.

Perhaps a book on distilling or whiskey. I personally like the Alaskan Bootlegger's Bible.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967452406?ie=UTF8&force-full-site=1&ref_=aw_bottom_links

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SWXNG8A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm getting THIS BOOK. I think you should too.