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Perhaps the confusion lies with me. It has been a long time since anyone actually asked me to express my view "semi-rigorously". I will work backwards from your last two questions, so hopefully we go from more general to more specific. I truly hope I am not coming across as a follower of Protagoras.

>Are you of the opinion that non-human animals(in this case turtles), are worthy of moral consideration?

All organisms are under moral consideration. Single celled organisms up to carrots, then back down and up to animals. The issue that most people have with this view, is that I cannot express a stronger statement than "tread lightly and try not to kill things you don't plan on eating".

>Who/what is currently in your circle of moral consideration, and what characteristic(s) do they possess which afford them your consideration?

All things that qualify as living/alive and perhaps even Viruses.

>>Turtles have more inherent value than cardboard boxes
>Why do you suppose this is? What is the relevant distinction between turtles and cardboard boxes?

1. So the difference between turtles and cardboard boxes(I shall include non living self repairing chemical compounds with cardboard boxes) is that turtles are the result of a slow, gradual, process that not only selects for the most best "fit" traits (theory of evolution) but also works slowly towards more complex organisms (perhaps the divine of some sort). So I will feel no guilt in kicking a cardboard box across a room, but I will definitely stop and help a turtle cross a road (a weird intersection of society and nature crossing, which I expect to eventually sort itself out, but still cannot stand idly by and let a moral patient experience "stress"). However, I still cannot condemn another moral agent for choosing how treat another organism outside of society/laws. The best I can say is that they shouldn't do it, however if you could provide me with a better moral imperative given my previous statements that would be great.
   

   
   

   >>Thus, all turtles are “innocent moral patients”.
   

   >I take it you see turtles as one of these cases them, yes?
   

   
   

   Given the previous paragraph, let's call it 1., I treat all moral patients on a level playing field, and you might be wondering, "So, are humans more important than the E. Coli that inhabit your shit, or the another obligate organism such as those mites that hang out on our eyelashes?" Surely, I should try to not pull out any eyelash, if I value each mite on that eyelash as much as I value a human infant?
   

   
   

   So, the human infants are moral patients participating in "society" whether forced to do so, chosen of their own free will, or even if they just lucked into it (tuche). As such, they are the highest stepping stone to something greater chapter 3, except replace jellyfish/cnidaria with people. Each mite also has the potential to become the progenitor to the next dominate race on Earth, but since free will exists, those human infants are closer.
   

   
   

   I feel like there are two ways to view this outlook... Basically the pessimistic and the optimistic. The pessimistic view, is that "Shit, you treat all humans that aren't moral agents as well as you try to treat moral patient organisms" as opposed to the optimistic view, "Shit, you try to treat all moral patients as good as you treat moral patients". This may have just made the argument turn into a clusterfuck...
   

   
   

   So, important philosophical views:
   

   You should try not to hurt any moral patients.
   

   You should only hurt moral patients when it is necessary for the greater good(looking at moral agents that take a laxative or moral agents that take actions to decrease the "overall" quantity of life). This is truly what I believe, and how I live my life.
   

   
   

   >>I feel that there may be cases in organisms other than adult humans that may cause them to be moral patients
   

   >Which cases might those be, and why?
   

   I meant agents, sorry about the lack of sleep. I get cranky.
   

   
   

   Anytime we force "society" on other organisms or when those organisms end up being affected by it in a very direct way. Like Holmes Rolston III, feels that domesticated animals and "pariah species"(pigeons, rats, raccoons, and other species that saw humanity and was like "That's a good idea, let's take a piece of that", when I pushed HoRo III he definitely admitted his world view was lacking in context to pariah species). The best example of this would be Nim Chimpsky, while HoRo III agreed that (not a direct quote it has been 8+ years), some organisms are able to transcend and benefit from their interactions with society/culture such as Nim Chimpsky we shouldn't be forcing that progression(reading, writing, arithmetic) onto others. It would boil down to, some organisms/species which are "more complex" take part in the "divine" more than simpler organisms. So let's take domesticated dogs/cows, those species have traded organism autonomy for ensured specie success. Like, you can take humans/H. sapiens and realize that we would be nowhere near as dominant in the food chain if it wasn't for the species we domesticated/those that "decided"(I am not ready to declare species are sentient... yet) to join us.
   

   
   

   This is fun, haven't had anyone care about my views in a very long time.
   

   )

Well first of all I'd recommend reading the New Revised Standard (NSV) Bible; it's considered the closest to the original source. If you haven't read the Bible as a whole or even just haven't read this version before you may be able to just do it yourself as long as you keep reminding yourself to just read the text slowly and plainly as a fictional story and take a break every book or so to make sure your thoughts are supported by the text.

I took it as a class and that was helpful because there was someone not really guiding you but sort of correcting you when your interpretation was influenced by something other than the text, which was a pretty common difficulty for people who read the Bible once or more as a religious person. You could probably arrange to sit in on a class at a nearby university if that seems doable. Also, I googled and found a book about it that's pretty cheap that's summary seems to be pretty on par with what I'm talking about but I haven't read it so I can't speak to the quality.

But really it's about trying to see it as a work of literature, maybe read an article about how to examine literature first if you try to go it alone and treat it like any other book. Try to take in the plot, the imagery. Look for the characterization of the people and of God himself, look for metaphors, similes, symbolism, clever wordplay and humor, stories of human joy and suffering. Take note of the style and purpose of the writing, some books are written in song, some are lists of lineages, some are simple moral parables, others are more nuanced.

Also, an important part of literary analysis is knowing who the author(s) was(were) and when and why they were writing. This is a big part of why the Bible is such an interesting work of literature; it's really the first (surviving, at least) book written about normal people by normal people. Before the Bible people only wrote about the gods and of epic heroes and kings and here are these stories about farmers and slaves and every day people just doing every day things, no glamour or glory. The parts that aren't believable are almost always symbolic or metaphorical - a surprisingly (although not wholly) consistent stylistic choice throughout considering the several different authors - and the parts that are believable are often surprisingly candid and human when read plainly. It's a book about struggle, it's a book about living under an oppressive government, it's a book about the importance of human kindness and compassion and cooperation. Spend a little more time googling about the lives of the authors too if you plan on trying it out solo, it will also help you understand where the text is coming from.

Sorry for writing so much. Good luck!

I like how you completely ignored my comment about how the medical communities "treatment plan" for people who were gay... You know, to cure them of their "sickness" or "desease". Yes, it's not about vaccination, but it highlights the fact that "your gods" are nothing more than men and women like the rest of us. As such, even the almighty medical professionals have been known to make mistakes -- shocking, I know!

Vaccines are not drugs by the way. They are blue prints for viruses to teach your immune system how to recognize them. Giving a 10 week old a polio shot doesn't protect them from getting polio the next week. You need to have a fully developed immune system in order for the viruses to be recorded to begin with. I take it you don't have children, so you might not know that the vaccination schedule runs for many years with the same vaccines delivered over and over. Vaccines are not free either... Even if you don't pay for it, someone does (for example I am in Canada and we have "free" healthcare.. the government pays for every visit someone makes to the doctor). So, if you think that the cycle is limited to just public health alone, then I'm sorry but it's you that has your head in the sand. There are several industries and hundreds of millions of dollars in the wheel of this machine.

Your dismissal of naturopathy is a little disconcerting as well. Many medical professionals, you know, the ones that did biology and chemistry in school? Beyond the basic level? Even many of them are aware of the importance of things like probiotics and raw foods etc. Naturopathy is not about rubbing plants all over your body, it's about understanding the chemistry .. the NATURAL Chemistry of your body. How can you so quickly dismiss thousands of years of healing? Modern medicine has made some astonishing discoveries and advancements, but it is still in its infancy compared to traditional medicines ... Would you call Traditional Chinese medicine bullsbhit? My son recently had an ear infection and the doctor asked me to wait almost three weeks before prescribing an anti biotic because the antibiotic is known to completely erase your immune system and it can take up to two years to recover it. His suggstion was to keep the ear dry, and eat pile of probiotics to boost his immune system through a healthy gut, and give it some time. We followed his advice and in the end, yes it took a little longer, but my son's ear infection cleared and he didn't have to take any drugs. My point is, you don't always need Chemistry to solve the problem. Sometimes time and the right balance of diet is all you need.

All bashing aside here, one of the last books I read before making my choice was this one:
https://www.amazon.ca/Dissolving-Illusions-Disease-Vaccines-Forgotten/dp/1480216895

I had read dozens of items on both sides of the argument before getting to this one. Before starting this book, I was still in favour of vaccinating my children. This book changed my perspective. Some might find it a little dull in parts because it can be really numbers heavy, but if you like math you might enjoy it. The book, I thought, was very well written and covers the topic from the inception of vaccines though to modern day using published facts to support their arguments. For me, even if I don't agree with someone's point of view, I like to atleast make the effort to understand their perspective and their position. If you are the same then you might enjoy this book.

For the record, humor is not lost on me. You're the funniest person I've ever met! Or at least .. you seem to think you are. Couldn't end the topic on a serious note! ;).. bro.

Eh. I’m sure this is pointless, but I did my undergrad in church history. The ‘overwhelming scholarship’ you reference just doesn’t exist. If anything, scholarship is overwhelming in the OTHER direction.

Just, take the canonization of the Bible for example. In THE MOST general of terms, a cannon was somewhat agreed upon about 250 years after the birth of Christ, and would go through a progressive series of additions, subtractions, and revisions until the 16th century!

One of the criteria for canonization was authorial integrity, that the book was written by who it claimed to be written by. What’s known as pseudepigraphy, or writing in another authors name pretending to be that person, was INCREDIBLY common in the ancient world. Modern scholars agree that Paul wrote 8 of the 13 books attributed to him. The other 5 are very questionable.

This is a good history of the subject: https://brill.com/view/title/13087

Bart D. Ehrman’s work is a good place to start reading, as far as general scholarly consensus is concerned: The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings https://www.amazon.com/dp/019020382X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_pd5dBb4EWCZRH

Be warned: you WILL find a lot of blogs and word press websites that refute these texts and authors with a scholarly front. You will not find serious, peer reviewed refutations of these authors or ideas.

So that raises an interesting question, doesn’t it? Isn’t all scripture God breathed? Did God lie when he said Paul wrote the books he didn’t?

Also, yes, scholars very much agree that the Bible, as a whole and in parts, is a continuity NIGHTMARE.

These are recommendations from my friends:

The Ethics of What We Eat: Why Our Food Choices Matter

Whole: Rethinking the Science of Nutrition

Cowspiracy which is a documentary available on Netflix.

I haven't read or watched any of these but my friends are smart people and this is what they recommend. I'm also going to read these and watch Cowspiracy so I'm more current with my information. Also this website (click on Food Justice: Know The Issues): http://www.foodispower.org/

Sugar is processed into blood sugar --> insulin is released to bring blood sugar down.

Too much sugar causes bigger and bigger doses of insulin to be released to try and bring it down. But the cells start going "tone-deaf" (insulin-resistant) because there's so much, and the pancreas will try and keep up until it can't anymore.

"It occurs when insulin is produced normally in the pancreas, but the body is still unable move glucose into the cells for fuel. At first, the pancreas will create more insulin to overcome the body’s resistance. Eventually the cells “wear out.” At that point the body slows insulin production, leaving too much glucose in the blood. This is known as prediabetes. A person with prediabetes has a blood sugar level higher than normal but not high enough for a diagnosis of diabetes. Unless tested, the person may not be aware, as there are no clear symptoms. Type 2 diabetes occurs as insulin production continues to decrease and resistance increases." Healthline.com

The more you raise your insulin by volume (large amounts at one time) or time (snacking all the time) the more at risk you are to insulin resistance and eventually diabetes.

And although the most obvious culprits include soda and candy, any carbohydrate will break down into sugar. Pasta, potatoes, bread, fruits, cereals, corn, flour, crackers and chips, tortillas, oats, etc...

Also, fun fact, although we do need blood sugar, you actually never ever have to consume sugar. The body makes it's own by breaking down protein in the liver, known as gluconeogenesis. There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

Why all the carb hype everywhere? Heart healthy grains, breakfast carb hype, etc...? It started in 1977 with the first invention of the food pyramid which was dramatically lobbied by the department of Agriculture to include mostly grains and vegetables. Foods that were easy to mass produce and make products out of. Since then, America has experienced an explosion of obesity, diabetes, and similar related disorders. Food pyramid
Big Agriculture and the Government

There's been a couple of books written about it, right now I can only remember one: "The Big Fat Lie", by Nina Teicholz

There's more but I need to get back to work. :P

Edit: Link formatting

In the 1970s in north Texas when I was in elementary it happened from time to time. Also the musical we put on in 5th grade was Shadrach, Meshach, Abednigo (probably butchering spellings there) and not as any kind of secular allegory or anything but as a straight-up "faith in God will save you" thing. I still find myself humming the songs to it now and then 35 years later.

Edit: I googled it to see if this musical is something anyone else remembers and it definitely is.

You are right that we have different perspectives, but the woman is right. The cancer society has based their campaign off of bad information.

If you’re interested in reading more this book does a good job of summarizing the state of the science and why we as a society need to think harder about weight and how we should treat people with bodies different than ourselves.

https://www.amazon.com/Health-At-Every-Size-Surprising/dp/1935618253

Best of luck. Hope you don’t find yourself in a situation where your body grows for reasons you can’t control.

I lucked out, my sister had a baby about 8 months before mine was born, and he grew pretty quickly. My sister also went a little crazy with the ordering, so she had almost two of the huge boxes of pampers unused for size 1. Our baby registry was on Amazon, so we got $100 for diaper/baby stuff that we ordered some size 2s Huggies when the time came. I just ordered Luvs, and those were the first diapers I actually paid for, and I got lucky that there was a sale on Amazon (for size 2 at least). Less than $20 gets you 216

I don't think they have the wetness indicator, but so far it was pretty easy to tell if he needs a changing.

Actually, most OTC treatments now don't work well as many lice have adapted to them. The best treatment is to take your kid to a lice removal specialist who will painstakingly comb out all the lice with a special comb, and then for you to keep combing their hair with the comb over the next few days. This is the comb, the ones that come in the shampoo kits don't work nearly as well.

Also an interesting fact: once the nits hatch, they will only want to feed on the blood type of their original host, so they will only infest someone with the same blood type.

I learned a lot about lice a few years ago. Ask me how I know.

Idk if this is what the other redditor was talking about, but amazon has a listing for "Natural Harvest"; https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Harvest-collection-semen-based-recipes/dp/1481227041


I highly recommend reading some of the available pages. It's hilarious, especially at the desserts section.

This is how they sell it.

> Turpentine has been used as natural remedy for a variety of health problems for generations! Great-grandmothers used turpentine for a yearly "cleansing" for every member of the family or for her rheumatism and nagging cough. While the thought of using paint brush cleaner sounds harsh and foolish, turpentine could be classified as an herbal remedy.
>
> Herbal remedies are medicines made from plants, and that is just what true turpentine is! Turpentine is made by distilling pine resin from pine trees. Many essential oils are made by distilling plant material into a concentrated natural medicine.

I'm not linking to site, i don't want to give them traffic, but it also lists turpentine as being part of ''protocols'' for autistic children.

Want to know how popular it is, check out the amazon review stats here

On the Q&A section, the question is asked "The label on the bottle says this is not for internal use?", the response from the seller (and producer)...

>
> This is in accordance with FDA regulations.
>
> Also in accordance with FDA regulations, we do not give medicinal advice regarding our products. You are welcome to read customer reviews of our products to obtain the information you are seeking, or you can also seek out the advice of a holistic health practitioner.
> Thanks again!

So they're selling this snake oil, knowing they have to deceive the FDA to do it, and telling people to read the reviews for the ''medical'' advice as they know they cannot give any.

People do in fact drink turpentine. Despite the fact that it is in no way beneficial, and actually poisonous. Check out the reviews: https://www.amazon.com/100-Pure-Gum-Spirits-Turpentine/dp/B00KE62DWS

My personal favorites:

>This kind is for paint thinner not arthritis.

Also:

>This was a natural medicine before big pharma lobbied Washington to stop its medicinal use. Why? it cut into their profits. (Both my grandparents and their parents used it).
Mix 2-3 drops with a carrier oil (like natural sweet almond oil), blend it w/ a Q-Tip, put it on your soles, put on socks while you sleep. Or a few drops on sugar, sugar cube or a bite of something sweet like a cookie (When taken internally sugar is an activating agent - it attracts yeast, some microbes, parasites, etc). Yes it helps on a surprising large host of health issues from Lyme disease to GI issues to skin issues, etc. I've been using it for months. Data mine its healing powers on the net and you'll see. Remember before Big Pharma there were natural medicines and they still work. This is Not the same turpentine as you'd get from the hardware store. This pure gum spirits of turpentine, it comes from certain kind of Southern pine tree, just like maple syrup comes from maple trees up north.

And:

>I'm into my 3rd week now (yes,I had so many parasites I have to do the intense 4xweek protocol probably for 1 whole month at least. I had a smaller "bloom" of parasites after my second week (nowhere near the usual blooms, maybe 1/8 what I usually get). So I started a third week, and after the first dose of week 3, I stopped feeling the wriggling/biting sensations all over. I have gotten rid of a lot of candida, parasites, can think way more clearly. My husband started it too (he just finished week 2) and I can't believe his energy. He was one of those who never felt symptoms, but had a lot of gas, so probably had lots of candida, etc. He's way better now. Nuy yourself some black walnut/wormwood tincture and take 1 full teaspoon 1 x week to get them good and dead. Take clove daily to help kill the eggs. Check Dr. Hulda Clark online for dosage info about those products.

It's basically the only field of psychotherapy which has been able to compete with medication in clinical trials. This is the book my therapist prescribed, written by one of the founders of the field. The nice thing about self-help books is that you don't need a prescription or doctor's appointments, and they're often cheap. (Including in this case.)

The TLDR of it is that feelings are not absolute and originate from conscious and subconscious thoughts. Once the feelings take hold they can affect thoughts, which creates a feedback loop and makes the feelings stronger. By monitoring your own thought processes for certain distortion patterns, you can diminish or eliminate "bad" feelings before they start. However, the book goes much more in depth and explains exercises and techniques to help with this.

aside from sending me links for biased 'fact-checking' sites, id love to see logical evidence to support your illogical claim. You would also have to justify saying the DNC that voted to NOT condemn the KKK at 1924s convention(missed by 1 vote with 1000+ ballots, sad) is somehow the RNC now? Im sure you could look back through articles of incorporation to make the link. Or not. Because your just passing along talking points with no basis out of laziness.

>Passions crested when some delegates proposed that the platform include the words, “We pledge the Democratic Party to oppose any effort on the part of the Ku Klux Klan or any organization to interfere with the religious liberty or political freedom of any citizen, or to limit the civic rights of any citizen or body of citizens because of religion, birthplace or racial origin.” The proceedings of the convention, which ran to 1,315 pages, report: “Resounding cheers, applause, rising demonstrations, delegates standing on chairs waving hats, the chairman vainly rapping his gavel for order; disorder in the galleries; cries of ‘Get out,’ ‘Say it again.’”
>
>Senator Oscar Underwood of Alabama, who supported the anti-Klan plank, was denounced by the Klan as “‘the Jew, jug and Jesuit candidate’ — the ‘jug’ reference meant to disparage Underwood’s opposition to Prohibition,” Terry Golway wrote in “Machine Made: Tammany Hall and the Creation of Modern American Politics.”
>
>The fight went on for hours, and ultimately, the Klan and its allies prevailed in the platform fight as a resolution to condemn them by name lost by less than one vote — 543 and three-twentieths votes to 542 and seven-twentieths votes. (Some delegates could cast fractional votes.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/nyregion/gop-path-recalls-democrats-convention-disaster-in-1924.html

😂😂😂 found it! https://www.amazon.com/Wet-Lubricant-Boink-Bacon-Flavored/dp/B00M9P3HO0

You are correct!

Exploding Kittens: Original Edition

Family Friendly: Yes

https://www.amazon.com/Exploding-Kittens-LLC-EKG-ORG1-1-Card/dp/B010TQY7A8

They are produced by Cutco, a company that also is the producer of KaBar knives. Actually quite excellent kitchenware, albeit overpriced.

https://www.amazon.com/Homemaker-Stainless-factory-sealed-Sharpener-included/dp/B00H6BU74A/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1540333302&sr=8-4&keywords=cutco+knife+set

This one is nice too: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CVSG7PW

Oh? yeah, totally. there's a bunch of things you can do with cum. https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Harvest-collection-semen-based-recipes/dp/1481227041

Let me introduce you to Natural Harvest!

> And don’t get me started on the stickier body fluids.

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Harvest-collection-semen-based-recipes/dp/1481227041

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Harvest-collection-semen-based-recipes/dp/1481227041