(Part 2) Best products from r/polyamory

You know how people say you should only try to quit smoking or lose weight if it's something you want to do for yourself, otherwise it won't take? Sure, you might be able to cut back for a while or drop a few pounds, until that super stressful day or holiday buffet comes along.

The reason "they" say that is simple: eventually, if your heart wasn't in it to begin with, you'll find a reason to go back to your old habits.

I'm all for broadening one's horizons and exploring new sides of yourself - and I firmly believe that not everyone who thinks they couldn't do it is right. However, "trying out" polyamory with so many barriers in your way from the start could be seriously harmful to your current relationship, future relationships, and your core self.

There absolutely ARE ways to "get over" almost all of that, but it is a long, arduous, often painful process. And the best way to start is with wanting to change - or at least explore the possibility of changing - those things about yourself which would prevent polyamory from being a positive influence on your life: possessive jealousy, competition, viewing love as a pie chart, potentially codependence, and any others not listed in your OP.

/u/alc6379 is correct: "Only problem with trying polyamory first is there's so much at stake..." IMO, you have to be not just curious what all the hoopla's about, you need to be honestly wanting to seek out polyamory for its own merits in your life, which means you have to think it has merit for you.

It's totally possible to go from "I could never do that" to "This is amazing, even if it isn't how I originally thought things would go", but that won't happen just because other people have made it work for them. Poly - like monogamy - isn't for everyone, and that's ok.

I would recommend picking up a few published books as primers and see how you feel after reading them: The Ethical Slut, Open, and Opening Up are some of the key introductory references most people crack open first.

Whatever you guys choose, I wish you the best of luck!

One of two things is probably going to happen.

Scenario One: You'll talk to her about it and she'll go "Really!? Me too!"

Scenario Two: You'll talk to her about it and she'll go "WTF!? Why don't you love me anymore!?"

The fact that an open relationship and sex with others has been brought up without the sky falling in is a good sign but partners can sometimes get into a situation where they smile and nod at something, hoping it's just a phase and you'll forget about it after a while.

Real talk; you need to accept the fact that it may turn out that what the two of you want and are comfortable with is different and ultimately incompatible. I'm not saying that's what will happen but it's a possibility you need to be prepared for so you're not blindsided.

Before you talk to her, you need to get a handle on how you feel and start learning some of the language to talk about poly and the associated emotions. Kimchi Cuddles is a pretty low intensity look at the poly world through a humorous angle and it's actually written by a person who is poly so the perspectives and language in it come from a place of knowledge. You can also save comics that address particular problems or have discussions in them that resonate particularly strongly for you.

Beyond that, there's Hardy and Easton's Ethical Slut which is (and should be) a standard issue "Welcome to poly!" book and Deborah Anapol's book Polyamory in the 21st Century.

Both texts aren't flawless, I have irks with both as do many others but for someone looking to get a toe-hold they're pretty good.

I'd recommend starting with Kimchi Cuddles, then moving on to Ethical Slut. Polyamory in the 21st Century is optional but more in-depth.

The important thing is to talk with your partner now. Make them aware that you're thinking about this kind of stuff so they don't get blindsided later on when you've been reading and thinking for a month with them completely unaware. Maybe look for more concrete responses to the idea of an open relationship.

Unless you get the second scenario, there's going to be some hurt. It's extremely difficult to avoid. You just have to keep stressing that this isn't because of a failure on her part and that you still love and care for her.

Thank you for being so brave and reaching out.
Anything that is new can be very scary, and hard to process. Read more about the material, and know that people change a lot during life. I am not the same person I was at 15, or 20, and I wont be the same person when I am 40 or 50. I know people who were monogamous, poly, then mono again and are happy with their life. I know people who have always been poly, and are happy with their lives too!
Here are a few good books to look at:

Ethical slut. Great 101 read, it has information for both poly and mono people. It helps explore what poly means to a LOT of people, and what sexuality means for a LOT of people.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Ethical-Slut-Infinite-Possibilities/dp/1890159018/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1380731411&sr=8-2&keywords=ethical+slut

Opening up, sort of the next level in poly reading. More complex poly concepts, and a whole lot of information on various poly relationship types. A bit of a long read, but very interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Sustaining-Relationships-ebook/dp/B001GCUCV8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380731474&sr=8-1&keywords=opening+up

Sex at dawn a bit heavy on the poly propaganda, but a very well researched book. It explores poly through the ages, and various biological imperatives which suggest we are more poly then we originally thought.

http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Modern-Relationships-ebook/dp/B007679QTG/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1380731535&sr=1-1&keywords=sex+at+dawn

I have been in the poly community for some 10 years now, with all the troubles beauty and heart ache that entails. The best lesson I ever learned was be true to myself, and be kind to my self. You will mess up, I certainly did, but you will learn and find some better truth. Do not hesitate to reach out, if you need any further advice or just kind words let me know.

It took me a while to wrap my mind around the idea of polyamory for this exact reason. My first date outside my marriage I also felt so overcome with guilt, I could not focus on the person I was with.

I think we don't realize how molded we are by our upbringing. We think something is wrong just because we have been told so - and it's really hard to get past that and focus on your own personal moral compass. I questioned for a while, "Is this wrong or not?".

Hubby and I both read a book called "Love, Freedom, Aloneness". It's not about polyamory and I didn't go into thinking it would be - but it gave me the clearest sense of who I am regarding love. (This is probably the only book that I ever really go out of my way to recommend to anyone). It's written by a buddhist and talks a lot about relationship dynamics across different times and cultures. It's really interesting to see that the idea of monogamy isn't really as widespread as we think. It talks also a lot a bout how people 'imprison' their lovers and themselves. Probably the most eye opening book I have ever read.

Originally my husband was open to me dating women (since I'm bi) but I never even began to consider opening our relationship completely. It was after reading this book that I really got a clear sense of self and felt comfortable opening our relationship (although he has not dated anyone).

Here's the book for anyone interested. I recommend to anyone enveloped in or considering polyamory.

steps off soapbox

Along with a lot of the responses here, making a major decision like this over an evening's conversation raises some concern for your and your wife's approach and the longevity of the relationship.

Non-monogamy has a lot of nuances, a lot will be discovered over several months of conversation and actively dating outside of this relationship, but few over one conversation.

​

I would suggest taking a step back and educating yourselves, together, to learn more about what it means for your future:

1: Read open relationship and poly books together. Here are a few I'd suggest:

- Smart Girl's Guide to Polyamory

- Opening Up

- Polyamory in the 21st Century

2: Listen to the Multiamory Podcast on topics that you get stuck on or become aware of

- Multiamory

3: It also seems like a lot of assumptions are being made without explicit discussions. A core tenent of non-monogamy is honest communication.

>I have no reason to believe...

- Have you explicitly asking, "Is there anyone you're actively interested in pursuing right now or someone that's pursuing you?

>she’s never really viewed sex as a “big deal”

- Then why open up the relationship? For sex? To capture a sense of who she used to be? Who did she used to be? These questions aren't meant to discount your wife's needs/desires/wants to open up, but getting to the core reason of opening up will make the purpose, form, and function of your and other relationships clear.

4: YOU don't have to practice non-monogamy just because your partner does. A lot of people will say a mono-poly relationship doesn't work. I don't subscribe to that belief. As long as the relationship is equal, it doesn't always means it's even - and that's your choice.

5: It doesn't matter how much you educate yourself, you'll make mistakes along the way. Have room for yourself and your partner/wife to make mistakes AND be willing to forgive for them as well as forgive yourself. It will require a level of serious honesty and willingness to be vulnerable and have courage.


Good luck!

More Than Two by Franklin Veaux. If The Ethical Slut is the non-monogamy bible, then More than Two is the Polyamory handbook. It is a must read.


Opening Up by Tristan Taormino. Opening Up is a good supplementary book. Overall not as good as More than Two, but it has some unique takes on poly that is worth reading.


Eight Things I Wish I'd Known About Polyamory by Minx M. Honestly I have not gotten around to reading this yet, but it is by Cunning Minx of the Polyamory Weekly podcast, so the author knows what she is talking about.


Sex at Dawn by Christopher Ryan. This books it last on my list because it tries to pawn itself off as science when in truth it is more of philosophy. It makes good arguments, and backs them up with some data, but the evidence is nowhere as strong as Dr. Ryan wants to claim.

EDITED TO ADD:

If you are going to do non-monogamy it is always a good idea to improve your communication skills. Here are some recommended books on improving communication skills.

The Usual Error. This is a more basic communication book. It is a really good read that will point out some basic mistakes you probably make in communicating.

Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life. This is almost a whole new way of communicating. It is advanced level communications skills. Even incorporating some of the ideas in this book will help you tremendously in hard conversations.

I am not equipped to help you out here because a lot of what you're saying doesn't sound like a good enough situation to be voluntarily testing the breaking points for a relationship on top of it all. There's a lot of tension in your lives that you might want to resolve a bit first. If you're open to it - actually, really, open to it, you both need to talk about it and all of the issues you've got already and how to resolve those as well as mediate your insecurities and boundaries.

One thing though:

>I don’t want to demand that he only see someone else x days a week cause that’s kinda shitty

This isn't, by any means, a one size fits all relationship style - it's fairly anarchic. You get to make your own rules. Especially to start, it sounds like you are going to need a lot of extra attention paid to you to reaffirm that your bond is strong and you feel special. He needs to be there to do that and he should want to because he loves you and wants you to be happy too. Ensuring that you have appropriate time for each other is absolutely key.

My wife and I have rules about how many dates per week are appropriate because we want to ensure that neither of us feels neglected by the other. We want to make sure we both feel special and loved and enjoy all that new relationship energy and intimacy with others without guilt or worry.

That's what's great about all this - you can tailor your relationship to fit your desires and needs. But it's work.

Do yourself a favor and check out these resources:

https://www.morethantwo.com/

Opening Up by Tristan Taormino

The Ethical Slut

and this one that I just discovered and is awesomely helpful for dealing with jealousy (which you are like 99% guaranteed to feel):
The Jealousy Workbook by Kathy Labriola

Don't go into this lightly or on a whim, please communicate with each other and ensure that this is what you want. You can go forward, but you cannot go back the way you came and assume you'll end up where you started.

I recommend you start by reading everything at www.morethantwo.org

Then maybe read this http://www.amazon.com/Polyamory-Roadmaps-Clueless-Anthony-Ravenscroft/dp/1890109533/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382175373&sr=8-1-fkmr2&keywords=polyamory+a+guide+book+for+the+clueless+and+hopeful

Then find a local poly group in your area, keep in mind a lot of the poly groups are not mixers or cruising sites they are places for people to talk and learn about the community.

Join Ok Cupid. Make a profile. Answer the poly friendly questions in an honest manner. (you may find that you're more or less poly prone than you think.)

Get this plugin It will show you how people answered their poly friendly questions at a glance. (sadly only on chrome browser) https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/okcupid-for-non-mainstrea/cgdblghohnaeeejaoincmbcdkdnodkei?hl=en

From there its up to you and your ability to make a connection with some one. Good luck!

Start by reading the /r/polyamory FAQ if you haven't yet.

There are many good books out there, and reading any of these will help fill in a lot of blanks for you:

Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships

The Smart Girl's Guide to Polyamory: Everything You Need to Know About Open Relationships, Non-Monogamy, and Alternative Love

The Polyamory Toolkit: A Guidebook for Polyamorous Relationships

Building Open Relationships: Your hands on guide to swinging, polyamory, and beyond!

If you like listening to podcasts, there are a couple good ones I follow: Multiamory Podcast and Polyamory Weekly.

Go slow, read lots, and follow your heart.

I keep my partner interested by being interested in them and attentive to them. I don't really feel like I have to go out of my way though - we have similar love languages, so it just comes naturally. Learning about your partner's love languages and attachment style can help. It sounds like you might have an Anxious attachment style, and what I've found is that LDRs tend to activate anxiously attached people a lot more than regular local relationships. I'd recommend checking out this book: Insecure in Love: How Anxious Attachment Can Make You Feel Jealous, Needy, and Worried and What You Can Do About It

Specific to body image, I have heard a lot of good things about [The Body Image Workbook](https://www.amazon.com/Body-Image-Workbook-Eight-Step-Learning/dp/1572245468). Bird's eye view--comparison is the thief of joy. You can only be where you are now. The happiest people I know recognize this and focus on enjoying the journey toward becoming the best version of themselves versus trying to be somebody else. Life can be tough. No reason to make it harder on yourself :)

Yes! I've tried two, 1-time-use Softcups, which you can find on amazon and/or in local stores. They work pretty well, but I hate having to throw them away. I find these even work better for catching blood than most other cups I've tried. Two months back I got an Intimina, which I bought on Amazon. I've only used it for sex on maybe 3 occasions? It worked extremely well one time, alright results the other times. More testing is clearly needed!

Worth mentioning, none of my partners have ever felt either during sex. It's important to check that they're sitting/inserted properly right before sex. And sometimes when changing the Intimina it can be difficult to get back in because it doesn't bounce back the same way that other harder plastic cups do.

As someone who read and loved this book and proceeded to talk to everyone I met about how great it was and how everyone should read it, I really have to recommend you all read Sex at Dusk - Lynn Saxon.

It has helped give me a much better, more scientifically informed perspective of the whole Human Sexuality thing.

I still recommend Sex at Dawn, but only as a stepping stone to Sex at Dusk. Because fully informed is always better than selectively informed.

Also, this is that jealously workbook.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0937609633?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd_title

It's actually very helpful to identify what's causing your jealously and how to address it. Especially for new poly people. <3 best of luck OP! Your desire to work on yourself is admirable!

Highly suggested reading:
More Than Two: A Practical Guide to Ethical Polyamory: https://www.amazon.com/More-Than-Two-Practical-Polyamory/dp/0991399706/

The Ethical Slut: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1587613379/

Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/157344295X/

Eight Things I Wish I'd Known About Polyamory: Before I Tried It and Frakked It Up: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1500838160/

Game Changer: A Memoir of Disruptive Love: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DQ20WOC/

I am in a closed FFM triad, and we are fluid bonded. We currently have one child and are trying for another. As I am the woman NOT trying to get pregnant, we use withdrawal and fertility tracking. Actually, both of us (women) use fertility tracking, just for different purposes.

I have used this method of birth control for my entire marriage (10 years) and never had an unplanned pregnancy. The only pregnancy I've had is the one with my daughter, which we tried for.

We are very cautious, and use withdrawal most of the time, even when I know I'm safe. My wife used it for 2 years prior to us trying to have a child, and she never had an unplanned pregnancy either. There is definitely a learning curve to this method, I would not rely on it until you've established a 6 month baseline of knowing your cycle and pinpointing your ovulation.

If you are interested in this form of birth control I suggest picking up a copy of 'Taking Charge of Your Fertility', it is an excellent resource.
http://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-Your-Fertility-Anniversary/dp/0060881909/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1342271170&sr=1-1&keywords=taking+charge+of+your+fertility

> She says she is now going into a new form of
> treatment and that he is very important to her
> healing process.

That is a manipulative statement. From what I've read in your previous post, your boyfriend is not good at keeping healthy boundaries and she is very good an being manipulative. Manipulative people can't get better if they get rewarded for being manipulative. The only way to not reward manipulative behavior is by keeping good boundaries. It can take years to learn how to keep boundaries with someone who is mentally ill. I know this from personal experience.

If you decide to stay with your boyfriend and he decides to maintain his relationship with her, then you need to learn to keep boundaries to keep yourself safe and sane.

Here are some resources you or your boyfriend might find useful:

CoDa

BPDFamily

Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder

Two of the links above are resources for people living with someone with borderline personality disorder (BPD). I do not know whether you boyfriend's girlfriend qualifies for a diagnosis of BPD along with bipolar disorder (BD). However, I think those resources will still be helpful. Manipulative behavior and out of control emotions are traits of BPD. Also, BPD and BD are frequently comorbid.

Have you read Taking Charge of Your Fertility? It's got a lot of awesome information that makes you go "why did no know ever teach me this?" I use condoms with my secondary, obviously. But it's great knowing exactly where in my cycle I am to get a general sense of riskiness. And also once you get good at pinpointing when you ovulate, you'll know just when to expect your period ahead of time (and won't have to stress that you're late because you're pregnant, since you know you just ovulated late).

ETA: http://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-Your-Fertility-Anniversary/dp/0060881909/

I'm gonna recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Open-Love-Sex-Life-Marriage/dp/1580052754

It's about a married couple where the wife, Jenny (the writer of the book), has a "higher" sex drive than her husband and they open up their marriage, though her husband is less interested in finding other independent partners. It's a good read and it might give you some perspective on the dynamic.

This sounds like the classic "I hate you, don't leave me" behavior of someone with borderline personality disorder. There are a lot of good resources to help people mend relationships with loved ones who have BPD. I'm on my phone. Otherwise I would do a better job of summarizing the main points, but I can really recommend the book Loving Someone With Borderline Personality Disorder. http://www.amazon.com/Someone-Borderline-Personality-Disorder-Control/dp/1593856075

You’ve already done a service by explaining to him some reasons behind the break-up. At this point it’s more important to take care of yourself.

You should seek professional help for the self harm, but also checkout the book, “feeling good” the new mood therapy by David D. Burns, M.D. Amazon has a feel sample

Also heres an episode of the Multiamory podcast directly related to break-up that I’ve found very helpful myself.

70 - Polyamorous Breakups

MoreThanTwo has a great section on jealousy.

I have also heard great things about The Jealousy Workbook. Caveat: I have not read this book, so I cannot add my own recommendation.

This is a common scenario for married men. It can take a long, long time to get a date, and some guys (like me) never even manage to make it that far. "About a month or two" of trying is not a long time at all.

I recommend he check out Pepper Mint's book and blog post for advice, guidance, and a bit of perspective. It's important that he realize it's not just him and it happens to many men. Kevin Patterson's foreword to the book is especially eye-opening (and can be previewed for free on Amazon).

This is a good one. It's an autobiographical account of a woman discovering she needs to be open and working with her husband for him to be OK with that and make it happen. It has a lot of things people coming from a mono background can relate to.

Also if you deal with anxiety or depression, I would highly recommend this book. You'll find that polyamory is a huge learning experience about yourself. You'll find emotions you don't expect. Insecurities will be amplified if you have them. Joy will be wonderful when it comes. Sadness is more bearable because you have people to talk to and lean on.

I believe in being helpful first and critical second. So first some resources on poly since that seems to be the direction you want to explore. You're going to want to read these in particular the parts about open honest communication, taking a good long hard look at your feelings and analyzing them, and enthusiastic consent.

https://www.morethantwo.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Polyamory-Roadmaps-Clueless-Anthony-Ravenscroft/dp/1890109533

Second you might not be poly. A therapist might be a good start for you and your partner to work through and figure out why you are doing what you are doing.

Now critisism.

You might be poly. But that will never be an excuse for your cheating or your lying. I've never known poly to cure people of their dishonesty or low character. Something to keep in mind about poly communities the grape vine tends to talk a lot more due to the whole open honest communication thing. That usually means that when some one is caught lying and sneaking around it isn't just one or two people that find out, you can find your self on the outs with most of your community in a matter of minutes ruining the trust and friendship of a lot of people. Cheating can happen in poly just as in mono relationships. The fallout tends to be much worse due to the number of people involved. So while you try to figure out if you are poly also sort out your character as well.

I don't have any great advice, just wanted to offer my sympathy and support. I was in your position and broke up our two-year triad about six months ago. (In case you want to "sympathy read", you can find out more here: http://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/2zak2k/i_f_broke_up_our_triad_need_advice/)

It was difficult before as a triad, and continues to be really difficult in many ways as a V because of scheduling, but I'm hanging in there.

One resource that might help is the Jealousy Workbook. Don't just buy and read it, though. Make yourself do the exercises. Maybe buy a little notebook or something and decorate it, specifically for that purpose. http://www.amazon.com/The-Jealousy-Workbook-Exercises-Relationships/dp/0937609633

It's not just about how to deal with "jealousy" but also talks about how to communicate with your partner about these types of issues, AND it gives a LOT of supporting examples.

hugs

https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Fair-Nonmonogamy-Thorntree-Fundamentals-ebook/dp/B074WDQCSM/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=nonmonogamy+for+men&qid=1553709907&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Playing Fair: A Guide to Nonmonogamy for Men into Women. Guess I can start here.

Get this book, it really helps: Jealousy workbook

Source: I was you at one point

I highly recommend the Jealousy Workbook. It helped me immensely with sorting out what my jealousy was representing, as well as working through scenarios that trigger it.

This is well worth the $20, whether or not you decide to try poly.

For me personally a lot of the assumptions that came with monogamy (eg my partner having feelings for someone else is because they are better in some way than me) actually made me more jealous, not less. Wanting to be poly made me unpack a lot of the unconscious assumptions I made about love and possession of people, and that helped a ton with my feelings of jealousy and uncertainty.

I think trying to work out exactly what you're feeling scared of when you're jealous, and what assumptions might underlay those feelings, is well worth the effort and discomfort even if you decide to stay monogamous. Feeling insecure feels shitty.

I also think it's well worth talking to your gf and explaining that you accept and understand that she desires what she does, even if it isn't on the table right now. If you're making an effort to work on yourself let her know. Talking to her about how she feels about poly, and why, might give you some ideas about where her experience of feeling attraction to others differs from your own assumptions about it.

Feeling Good by David Burns was helpful for me. There are a bunch of exercises and techniques for recognizing negative thought patterns and countering them.

I will say that if she's not even willing to try CBT (or any other type of self-therapy) then I agree with /u/Shaquintosh that her stated priorities don't line up with actual priorities.

I haven't used this myself, but: https://www.amazon.com/Jealousy-Workbook-Exercises-Insights-Relationships/dp/0937609633

The Ethical Slut, Third Edition is gonna be your overarching guide to Polyamory and other type of Alt relationships.

Basics to focus on, communication, boundaries, and reflection.

She's right you know - if you don't trust her judgement when she thinks it is sound, that is about you and her. Assuming this dude is not a physical danger to her, the rest is on her to manage. (Not that emotional abuse isn't possible and harmful, but emotionally abused people can read ever so many articles and still say "oh how horrible for those poor people!" Trust me, don't even go there. If the relationship is bad for her, her platonic friends are telling her all about it, and they are the ones she might hear.)

You sound like you're working on it, though, which is great. I'm a basically non jealous person but I found the jealousy workbook helpful for understanding others and a great description of some of my negative feelings.

You might want to check out the following resources:

https://www.amazon.com/Jealousy-Workbook-Exercises-Insights-Relationships/dp/0937609633

https://www.amazon.com/JEALOUSY-SURVIVAL-GUIDE-secure-relationship-ebook/dp/B075ZN3YCC/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1519216854&sr=1-1&keywords=the+jealousy+survival+guide

https://www.amazon.com/Polyamory-Jealousy-More-Essentials-Guide-ebook/dp/B01E0L4DAM/ref=pd_sim_351_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=J1F12H2VHG1SFKSCKVTS

Also, it's possible that in the long run you are just not suited to polyamory. I'd recommend giving it 6-12 months and working on it, but if you're still miserable in a year then I think you should cut your losses and find someone mono. I'd recommend this article: http://www.polyamorousmisanthrope.com/2008/01/07/you-dont-have-to-do-it/