If it were me (and that is all I can comment on as I don't dispense any advice) I would most likely use lope.

I'd start the night before going CT with 5 pills (2mg each) it takes a bit to get into the system and this jump starts it.

Then I'd go 5 pills (twice per day) on day one. And then 4 pills (twice per day on day two). And go down a pill per dose per day accordingly.

I would not use it more than 5 days. There is no need. Most people with shortish habits wake up on day 5 feeling MUCH better. But even a person with a longer habit really need not use it longer than 5 days.

The other supplements I'd recommend are a GOOD multi with minerals (like the senior ones) and maybe even supplemental vitamin C with rose hips (the rose helps absorption) or maybe this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Bronson-Vitamin-Premium-Non-GMO-Ascorbic/dp/B0006ZNFT2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478780712&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=vitamin%2BC&th=1

Then to top it all off I'd use a few adaptogenic herbs to help repair the HPA axis. Ashawagandha at night and rhodiola in the morning. The other good morning supplement is L-tyrosine……and of course eat super clean too.

You may have a really sketchy appetite for awhile. Make sure to get nutrition anyway. Easy foods loaded with nutrients are best. Such as scrambled eggs, orange juice and other fruit juice, greek yogurt, bananas, peanut butter, whole wheat bread or pasta.

The key is it has to sound appealing or you won't eat it. Clearly there may be "cleaner foods" out there, but appetites are funny at first, so go with what you WILL eat.

Drink lots of water. Make yourself MOVE even though you don't want to. Do not allow yourself toy sit at home staring at the computer screen (you will be tempted to because kratom seems to affect people like this).

Get outside and WALK or ride your bike…..try and create a new schedule for yourself. Think about the things that caused your addiction. Were you attempting to avoid something? figure out how to address it.

If you need help sleeping then use valerian, melatonin or passionflower (or even a mix of these). The passionflower is good for any anxiety. Kava is also good for anxiety. Just use these WHEN NEEDED and especially don't abuse the kava. I live in a legal state and used MJ with very good effects.

Don't go ballistic with yourself though. Be gentle and loving. Do not berate yourself for getting to this point…….we all get lost on occasion and this doesn't make us bad people. Indeed we are GOOD people.

And we can turn anything around for the better……no matter how hopeless we feel, that is a complete mirage. Don't fall for it.

Come here often. Report your progress in the daily updates thread…..make friends with a few people. Most of us were "closet users" and having company on this journey can really be helpful.

Drug addiction is often fueled by feeling alone in this world…. maybe think a little about that (if it fits anyway). We deserve to be happy and to be thriving……life is to be lived. And not in a comatose kratomized way……finally :

YOU ARE MUCH STRONGER THAN YOU KNOW……GOOD LUCK !

750mg caplets (good on the go - I take these on hiking trips! or when traveling, for convenience) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GW9L9E/

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bulk powder (I just toss and wash... lmao, the irony. 1/2 tsp = 749mg) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H4HXK5E/

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500mg DPA (no L-PA, just the D - more ideal for nighttime, sometimes I take it during a gym workout to keep my endorphins going longer, time it for about an hour before chugging my protein shake) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001TNQKLA

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As for when to take it, they're amino acids that compete for absorption with protein. So I've found lately that it works best if I take my 1/2 tsp (about 750mg) right when I wake up, then give an hour before I make my morning smoothie (which contains a lot of protein, along with veggies, fruit, ground flaxseed, oats, basically a ton of superfoods) and/or eat breakfast. Seems to work a lot better when I'm intentional about making sure I can absorb it best. Again, ironically sounds like kratom usage, except the results are exactly the opposite! =) I usually do 750mg in the morning, maybe a 2nd dose before the gym (or do the DPA before finishing the workout), and a DPA at night. I also take week long breaks once in a while.

​

So tl;dr better to take it on an emptier stomach, and timed away from any protein intake. But if you don't have time, just take it lol.

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Also, I've taken 1.5-2g doses before, and I'm not sure it made a difference. I seem to get the best results from 750mg-1g. This goes for all supplements these days, I don't really double up on anything anymore.

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Hope it works for you!

Kind off topic, kind on topic..

For anyone who doesn't have a decent pair of headphones and even if you do I highly recommend everybody purchase these headphones...

Koss KPH30i

They are thirty bucks on Amazon and occasionally 20 on Drop and are quite possibly the best headphones I've ever used and for sure the best bang for buck ones. This coming from a wannabe 'audiophile' who spent absurd amounts of money on very expensive headphones, DACs, and headphone amps in the past. I'm actually pissed that they sound better then some of my incredibly expensive headphones. They also look pretty awesome with their 80s retro which is a nice change from the giant over here cans everybody has nowadays. They have a lifetime warranty and you can literally send them back if they're break 20 years later. Koss have been around for a long time.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SFK2K17/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_HuFNDbXV6VDH2


Anywho, congrats on the progress and yes, music is amazing when the numbness finally wears off.

Yes Girl! You're doing awesome. I know you've faced quite a few challenges since quitting but I'm really happy that you've stuck to your guns. If it makes you feel any better I had the exact same wake-up-at-3am thing happen for several weeks after I jumped off. I didn't have the negative thoughts that you describe but definitely would wake up like clockwork at some point from 3am-4am. It was suggested that this was "adrenal fatigue". There is some debate about whether such a thing actually exists but I was willing to try anything. I started taking this. I don't know whether it really did anything or whether it was just a matter of time, but I promise you that it does eventually clear up!

Awww Thanks struggle & newgirl, very nice compliments. I personally read up on the vitamin C idea, too---then did tons of research and found this excellent very bioavailable one on Amazon. And the best price I found, too.Worth a look !

I will NEVER forget how cold and alone and lost I felt when I realized how deep I'd gotten in this crap (my mind was a mess, too). So reading the posts here helped me to feel "not as alone" and that made the difference…….I believe in the old paying it forward idea.

We are all the same when we get here. We need a helping hand or encouraging comment to spark our OWN power…..then we can do damn near anything !

Keep going my friend, glad to hear things are still improving :-)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006ZNFU6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

I feel exactly like this at the moment. I am a guy working a very high-pressure engineering job. I'll be fired very quickly if I am not 100% in a state of mind of ample creativity, enthusiasm and drive.

I started taking kratom about 18 months ago. While on it, I got this job, and I got into a relationship with an absolutely amazing girl.

But all this is a lie. They gave me this job based on my kratom'ed out personality. And this girl probably fell in love with that fake personality. Double life - I know exactly what you mean.

Nobody knows except for these internet strangers.

Over the last 4 months I've been trying to quit kratom from a 50g/day habit.

Last week, I came off kratom completely for 5 days. Brutal physical withdrawal. But I took a week off from work and told my girlfriend that I had the flu so I couldn't see her or text/talk to her. On the 5th day, the physical symptoms disappeared, and I thought I was free. But only then I realized the true depth of the problem. The acute symptoms were nothing at all. Over the 18 months, my brain has forgotten how to do anything with an innate sense of motivation and enthusiasm. I can only do anything while on a dose. On day 5, I was basically vegetative laying in bed all day. Zero dopamine for even basic bodily functions like drinking water or peeing let alone having the motivation to do anything for work or for my family and girlfriend.

I had no choice but to go back to the green shit. Back on it now. We both are so plugged into the lives we're living built on top of the mountain of this green shit. Removing that mountain would mean the lives would fall apart too.

We would wish more than anything that we could just pause our lives for a few months so our brains can recover the ability to do anything at all. But we can't stop this train. I won't tell you things are going to be easy. I can't know that for certain.

But I know for certain that you are a good mom and wife - kratom or not. Always will be. Don't ever forget that. The decision to go back on wasn't easy for you. But you did it to save your family. Never for a second feel bad that you relapsed or kept it from your husband. You had no other choice. Things in the past, let go.

Focus on the 'now'. We have much harder things to worry about now. We have to get off while keeping it all together. I am tired too. I am scared too. But we're going to do it. Random person on the internet, I don't know anything about you, what you look like, where you are, but I know exactly what you're going through.

So here is the fucking plan:

1. Make up your mind today that you're going to get off this green shit. You're going to do it for your children, your husband and for you. Take those feelings of futility, fear, betrayal and burn them into your mind instead as determination to get off this green shit.
   
   
2. Next, buy a precision scale. This one: https://www.amazon.com/AMIR-Back-Lit-Function-Stainless-Batteries/dp/B01HCKQG7G
   
   
3. Order Kratom cheaply. Don't let this green shit get you into debt. I order online from <a vendor with the name of a greek primordial goddess>. $99 for a kg. Don't spend any more.
   
   
4. Copy this spreadsheet. This is your divine scripture now. Plug in your current daily dose and give yourself 6 months to taper off. The sheet will tell you how much your doses will need to be. Measure out your doses and record them. Remember that you made up your mind today to get off. Stick to the plan. Like commandments from God himself, follow the spreadsheet blindly.
   
   It's going to be hard for the both of us. But we're going to do it. History has shown people have done much harder things. Think of the recovering herion addicts who've managed to keep it together and continue on living well. Their struggles are on an entirely different level. We're not so unfortunate. We can and will do this. A month or so in and you've shown progress with your taper, tell your husband. Trust me, he will understand and be delighted with your progress.
   
   We're going to keep it together. We're going to replace the mountain of green shit underneath our lives with ourselves bit by bit, gram by gram. Have faith. Never forget that you're a good mom and wife always and forever. Let's forget decisions made in the past and focus on our tasks now. You are not alone.

Hi.

Step one, is to go buy a cheap digital scale that can read tenths of a gram.

Actually, Step One is admitting you have a problem and asking for help. So congrats! You're already on your way!!

THIS is the one I bought off Amazon for $17 and served me well, but just about any will do.

Once you know where you stand, you know how far you have to go.

The tapering guide found in the sidebar is a fantastic resource that many (including myself) used to dial usage down to a more reasonable level before jumping off. This is VERY doable. You can do it.

Commit to change, and then start putting one foot in front of the other.

Supplements are helpful, but everybody seems to have a different experience.

Make a note of how you feel right now. It will be your best resource in times of struggle.

You got this!

Im super lazy so I dont do all the kneeding and such. I use an Aluball and simply fill it half way up ( something around 1.5-2 tbs ) with Kava and put it in a quart mason jar with warm water, shake for a minute or two and thats it. Im sure its not as efficient for getting all the good stuff but its easy and makes a good strong quart of Kava.

EDIT: Im also going through a taper and am down to 6.25 grams a day. Its been really tough to be honest but its the only way I can still function enough to work.

I appreciate the insight. Good luck to you! I know you can do it.

One thing that also gives me hope is listening to audio books. The book "I Forgot to Die" is one I highly recommend. It's an autobiography about a guy addicted to heroin that goes on to do incredible stuff. I figure that if he did what he talks about in the book, than everyone on Kratom should be able to kick the habit if they put their mind to it.

I recommend taking up a free month of audible and using your free credit to purchase this book.

https://www.amazon.com/I-Forgot-to-Die/dp/B0711L443K/ref=tmm_aud_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

I've found ashwaghanda to make me very sleepy, but it is good to take in the evening.

I agree that Kava can help immensely, if only to take a dose of something for mental purposes. I did not know they sold it at Walgreens though.

I purchased this from amazon and it was very good stuff. I also have a local place selling 2 pounds for like $40 but got a DUI a few weeks ago and can't drive over there :(

Invest $8 in a digital scale (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0012LOQUQ/). Volumetric dosing is too unreliable and will likely hinder the effectiveness of your taper.

And if you really want to go the extra mile, spend an hour portioning out and dating your doses on a taper schedule. I'm talking little baggies with 10 g, 9.5 g, 9 g, etc., and corresponding dates/times of administration. This method is not for everybody, but some people find the regimented nature of this approach to be very helpful. Good luck!

This is one of the best for ash, and best price: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T5BLPQI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
regualr ash did not do as much for me as the ksm66 version which also has reserach behind it. I take 1 twice a day, sometimes another late at night.

for theanine, this is most peoples favorite as it is embedded in coconut oil for easy assimilation:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TXY32FY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 take 1 with coffee, and then one as needed whenever i get anxious.

I used a powdered supplement called "CALM" from amazon a few times a day and it really helped for anxiety.

http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Vitality-Calm-Raspberry-Lemon/dp/B00BPUY3W0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454279751&sr=8-1&keywords=calm


Also, some sleep supplements will definitely help you get SOME sleep. This one is pretty cheap, has 3 natural sleeping aids and taking 2-3 WILL help you sleep

http://www.amazon.com/Melatonin-Tablets-L-Theanine-Chamomile-Valerian/dp/B014X22IUA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454279810&sr=8-2&keywords=schiff+melatonin

A pocket scale has been very beneficial for me, during my taper. You would not believe the variance in your dosages when "eyeballing" them. It's such a fine powder that the density of any particular dose could swing wildly by 20% either way, in my experience.

Amazon has a $9 digital scale that works well.

American Weigh Scales AWS-600-BLK Digital Personal Nutrition Scale, Pocket Size, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O37TDO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_iHFPCb5F8VSN4

Best wishes!

This is what I take....seems to have a lot of the things mentioned here as helpful. I'm past wd symptoms (I think) so YMMV but i've been very happy with it for the past week.
https://www.amazon.com/Melatonin-Tablets-L-Theanine-Chamomile-Valerian/dp/B014X22IUA

You could try cranial electrotherapy or a variation thereof like TDCS, such as a Bob Beck brain tuner or the fisher Wallace device, they have proven to be very good in clinical studies. Various brands make them the US military use it for PTSD & its cleared by the FDA for use in opiate withdrawal, best of look & take care

Here are some interesting links-

http://dreidelman.com/rockstar-interview/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYlmITFkueE

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2018.00907/full

https://soterixmedical.com/depression/therapy

https://soterixmedical.com/electro-detox/overview

https://soterixmedical.com/newsroom/press/2019/05/soterix-medical-announces-launch-of-electro-detox/34

This is the highest quality Bob Beck unit but there are cheaper brands on ebay-

https://www.amazon.com/SOTA-Tuner-Model-Easy-Use/dp/B0791WXW5C/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Bio+Tuner&qid=1571491800&sr=8-1

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Not all green tea is created equal, I'd recommend sencha for a much higher dose of theanine (which gives you the relaxing buzz), also a much smoother taste. Also make sure not to over-steep your green tea as it makes it taste more bitter.

Here's the sencha i use: https://www.amazon.com/Davidsons-Tea-Bulk-Sencha-16-Ounce/dp/B000SAPX8G/ref=sr_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1542312854&sr=8-5&keywords=sencha+tea&dpID=41DZ3w-DabL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

Your body needs l-tyrosine to make dopamine. If you have a tyrosine rich diet, you don't need it - if you don't use supplements like 5 htp. 5 htp burns dopamine and should be taken together with l-tyrosine.
My cordyseps:
https://www.amazon.com/Real-Herbs-Cordyceps-Extract-Cardiovascular/dp/B017XZV0OE/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1493346339&sr=8-1&keywords=real+herbs+cordyceps

But take care, if I took 2 capsules at the evening i was not able to sleep.
In general, the effect of the supplements depends on the stage of your withdrawal.
What is good today can even be a bit negative in a few months..

The best way to fight depression is cordyseps + polygala.. cordyseps alone just works on the dopamine uptake splint (not serotonin based).. but was very good for me..

I have this one https://www.amazon.com/Sphere-Gadget-Technologies-Lightphoria-Energy/dp/B004JF3G08/ref=zg_bs_13053141_12?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ZNA1EJ79ETGXPWSNY466

There are a ton of them on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Health-Personal-Care-Light-Therapy-Products/zgbs/hpc/13053141

Lots of difference price ranges. Basically, it mimics sunlight and kind of tricks your brain into thinking you're looking at the sun. I like to put it on the corner of my desk while I work. It looks like a sunny window out of the corner of my eye.

I believe this is the most commonly recommended scale - I bought it and it's under $10.00 - very reliable and accurate for me in the past.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012LOQUQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Gotta try squeezing fresh root, that other stuff is junk, I did the same thing, kava is LEGIT.

http://gourmethawaiiankava.com

Or even...

https://www.amazon.com/Wakacon-KAVA-Fijian-WAKA-powder/dp/B00A80163M/ref=sr_1_4_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1537101733&sr=1-4&keywords=kava

You'll need to grab a scale to follow along; the doses drop in such small increments (.2 grams), it'll be impossible to eyeball. Here's a scale on Amazon for under $8.00 (can't beat the price!):

https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Scales-AWS-600-BLK-Nutrition/dp/B000O37TDO/ref=lp_289787_1_9/146-5005162-3175224?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1493976786&sr=1-9

If I had to estimate though, I'd say 15 grams is approx. 2 tablespoons.