(Part 2) Best products from r/taoism

Gratitude to Dao and Virtue is suggested in Dao De Jing, chapter 51, where "respecting and cherishing" them is described as something humans naturally do (lit. "cannot not do"). Lao Zi's general reverence for Dao and nature suggests gratitude. Daoists certainly don't walk around with a sense of entitlement, and would not be trusted by other Daoists if they did.

​

51

Dao actuates them

Virtue takes care of them

Power completes them

This is why the myriad things

Cannot help but to respect Dao and cherish Virtue

Respecting Dao and cherishing Virtue

This is not commanded

Yet it has always been in their nature

Dao actuates them

Virtue takes care of them, extends their lifespans

Teaches them, completes them

Tests them, raises them

And brings them back (to their pure natures)

Actuates them but does not possess them

Sets them in motion but does not expect of them

Extends their lives without ruling and controlling

This is called Fathomless Virtue

​

(translation by Dan G. Reid)

This is good advice and kindly given, OldDog47 .. Carol Depp is a biologist and her translation has the virtue of that perspective, she writes from Oregon, and gardening is her forte. Your list includes excellent translations for u/efoshay to which I suggest two more, in the same spirit as you’ve shown, to encourage breadth of exposure and tuning of the ear: I suggest the two older translations, Arthur Waley and Richard Wilhelm .. the difference between them of course being that Waley is classical and more oriented to the social values for good governance, where Wilhelm’s perspective is more ‘personal’, perhaps even psychological, and valuable to the individual as scripture. Links = Waley’s The Way and its Power, and Wilhelm’s Tao Te Ching: Book of Meaning and Life. Having read seven you clearly share my view that nearly everyone taking on the daunting task of translation of such a classic, has something to offer. Unfortunately we can not say all. I thank you for Op who has wonderful future reading the Tao Te Ching, we wish you well!

The problem is that the Dao De Jing and other Daoist texts are not simple things to read. I would say that, yes, what Dao is is perfectly explained by the Dao De Jing, but only if you know how to read it. There are plenty of secondary sources out there providing commentary and alternate translations (because these things are never so straightforward) on the Dao De Jing. Personally, I would recommend the following two translations on the Dao De Jing, this one by Roger Ames and this one by Hans-Georg Moeller. Also, if you want a close reading of what Dao is I recommend you pick up Daoism Explained, also by Hans-Georg Moeller, a lot of which is freely available to read on Google Books. For the specific question you posted here, I would recommend reading section "The Wheel--An Image of the Dao" which begins on page 27 of Daoism Explained and is one of the sections freely available in the last link I provided. I hope this helps.

Edit: Just wanted to add that I've read a lot of books by different translators and commentators of Daoism, but Hans-Georg Moeller is by far my favorite for both clarity and correctness.

Learn about doing shadow work. Rather than reading a text, you can watch videos about it online.

But ultimately, you have to ask yourself the question, why are those thoughts appearing in your mind. Whenever there are thoughts in your mind that you cannot control, it is usually your subconscious trying to give you feedback (positive or negative) on what direction you should take.

The type of questions you mentioned usually pop up with self acceptance issues. Which almost everyone has. There is a part of you that you cannot accept, and you are rejecting it, and so it is invading your mind space, it is telling you that if you are not satisfied with who you are, then work towards the person you want to be. You have an ideal image of who you want to be, what is your role/hierarchy in the society. Anytime you find out that there is someone better than you, your subconscious mind causes a reaction because there is a mismatch with the perception of who you want to be.

Most people have this instinctive reaction, but if this particularly bothers you then you may have unresolved issues from your childhood. Or it may also be a part of your genetic make-up. It is okay to have those thoughts, try to be accepting of them, and understand why they are arising. Use that understanding to gain a better acceptance of yourself and be more "whole", so to speak.

Instead of reading texts, practice forms of healing arts like Qigong or Yoga which will give you good foundation on the road to self-acceptance.

Accurate might not be what you're after.

If you mean "accurate" in terms of "reflects the idiosyncracies of the original text", then a translation by a Victorian scholar like Herbert Giles or James Legge would be good. I actually find this type of translation to be very helpful, especially if it's annotated which Legge's is. When he does use the word "God", he always explains that it's an interpolation based on the context in which the quote is found.

If you mean "accurate" in terms of "reflects the style and character of the original text", then a more modern translation like that of D.C. Lau might be good.

Burton Watson's Complete Works of Chuang Tzu leans more toward the former, and although I haven't read it, I've been told that Victor Mair's Wandering on the Way: Early Taoist Tales and Parables of Chuang Tzu leans more toward the latter. Both are reputed to strike a good balance between literal accuracy and the spirit of the text.

Awesome question! I hope more people come to answer it. I'd like more sources myself. I know of two sources that might be useful though.

1. The Chinese History Podcast:
   http://chinahistorypodcast.com/china-history-podcast-050-daoism-part-1-2
   A student of Chinese history, Laszlo Mongtomery, involved in the region, runs a solid podcast about a lot of the widespread of Chinese history. He's done a couple episodes on Daoism. I do not think he completely covers all the nuance of topics, but it is hard to blame him for that, and he does a great job of giving historical summaries.
   
   
2. Daoism Explained:
   http://www.amazon.com/dp/0812695631
   A generally solid book that covers some of the history of Daoism, though it mostly focuses on the philosophy and meaning in Daoism and Daoist short stories.
   
   That's all I have right now, but it is a start. You could probably find a lot of daoism sprinkled in the big books about general Chinese history. Of course those things often read drier than the desert and feel just as unending. Hope it helped.

Thanks for this perspective, and for some context from your lived experience. I am happy (and my wallet sad) that you have included a link to a translation of the Neiye. Also, the video you link to is helpful in explaining why the Yijing is important in the study of, for instance, the Daodejing, with a nice concrete example.

As for the Yijing, I have been working my way through the Alfred Huang translation after having read the Tao Teh Ching translation by John C.H. Wu, to try to get some more background. Thanks for the confirmation that I'm at least partially on the right track.

There are things we need to live from nature, like oxygen, heat, complex molecules to make up our physical body, etc. There are also things which are not beneficial to the body, like deseases. Does that mean nature is good or bad? Not necessarily, it means nature just is, "the rain falls equally on the just and unjust".

In that case, you can say it's good, and you can say it's bad, and both would be right. Is that useful? Not really.

There are things on the internet debunking everything, if you care to look for it. It even debunked the David Hume's statement you shared. So what's the point on picking some and discarding others?

It might help to start out with the question: Who am I? You can build your metaphysics on your point of view of that answer. Alan Watts is a great author but it's kind of hard to understand him if he's your first exposure to this topic.

Anyways, maybe he's what you need, check out The Wisdom of Insecurity and/r Out of Your Mind, it might help with your anxiety.

It's much better to find a well explained version of TTC to start with. This could save your a lot of time and effort. For this purpose, I'd like to recommend this one: https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Te-Ching-English-Version/dp/1727252241/

This book stands out of the crowd because it's based on research breakthroughs, and it can tell exactly what the Tao is, what Being and Non-Being are, how to experience the Tao, what your true nature is and how to know it, and how to flow with the Tao, etc. Unlike others which keep convincing you that the Tao can not be told/explained, in this book, there is no more confusing, no more vagueness, and no more hard to solve paradox. So it's a good choice for first-time readers.

There's quite a bit written on the early Quanzhen tradition. They're really the ones who got monastic Daoism off the ground and spread it, and were once responsible for all monasteries in China! So maybe you can find something of interest to write about there. The Teachings and Practices of Early Quanzhen Masters by Stephen Esikldsen and Cultivating Perfection: Msyticism and Self-transformation in Early Quanzhen Daoism are both good academic sources, with the former being slightly more accessible.

One approach would be to check out a book called "365 Tao." It's a wonderful book that gives you a Tao passage every day and then expands upon the meaning of it. 365 Tao on Amazon

Also you could check out Alan Watts' "Tao: The Watercourse Way." I personally really enjoy Watts, and this book is a nice exposition of some Tao ideals. Tao: The Watercourse Way

I've been finding Cleary's translation of the "Secret of the Golden Flower" really insightful for the Taoist approach to meditation.

https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Golden-Flower-Thomas-Cleary/dp/0062501933

There are contemporary folks who have books and videos, but I'm not in a position to recommend any. Hope you find what you're looking for. :)

Tao Te Ching: A New Translation with Commentary by Ellen Chen. She deals with linguistics, showing you how a word was used in other contemporary works. Having studied paleo writings systems and ancient languages, I know how meanings change over time. So her approach was perfect for the way my mind works and gave me greater insight into what is being conveyed. Saves me from having to learn ancient Chinese to better understand the text. :)

If he's got a reddit account, have him send me a message. I'm a devout Roman Catholic convert who loves Daoism as a philosophy. I look at yin and yang as representation of our relationship with God, and Christ as the Dao that heals our imbalanced relationship. That's why I often where a taijitu with my crucifix. I first got into this when learning about the Chinese translation of the intro to John. It goes in English, "In the beginning was the Word (Greek: Logos) and the Word was with God and the Word was God." In the Chinese translation it says, "In the beginning was the Dao and the Dao was with God and the Dao was God." It is an incorrect translation, but it makes sense to me. As a Chinese major, I know that there is no good word in Chinese for the abstract idea of a "word", so they went with something more culturally applicable. Also, Jesus did say, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." Early Christians were also called followers of the Way. I learned a lot about this from this book written by an ethnically Chinese, Greek Orthodox priest. If you look at the picture, it even has the intro to John printed on the cover.

http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Eternal-Tao-Hieromonk-Damascene/dp/0938635859/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343463599&sr=8-1&keywords=Christ+the+eternal+Dao

Sorry if that's too much. I just get really excited talking about this.

Its my understanding that modern mandarin differs from the ancient mandarin the text was written in to such an extent that you might as well read it in English since that is your native tongue; and I would recommend the D.C Lau or Jonathon Starr english translation. That being said, the copy you were given is likely just fine and there are a few Etymologists that hang around here that are qualified to say that with any certainty. There is a reading material link on the side-bar you should check out, but I guess the major texts you're going to need in addition to your TTC are the Zhuangzi, the Liezi (Liezi is somewhat controversial but definitely worth the read), and the Huiananzi (This is a much later Han Dynasty text that is optional but interesting). I would also recommend getting several different translations of the TTC and the Zhuangzi in order to see the different ways in which people have interpreted the text.

I also agree that most of the books by Alan Watts are great to read. Picked this up last week and am loving it

The Wisdom of Insecurity: A Message for an Age of Anxiety https://www.amazon.com/dp/0307741206/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_K-SQub1FNVRH6

Since you are on the Daoist sub, I'll suggest your friend to research Quan Zhen Daoism one of the two majors schools of Daoism. One of its core tenants is "Three Teachings are One" refering to Buddhism, Confucianism and Daoism mainly focusing on Daoism. But there aren't too many English resources on post Warring states Daoism but here's a really good book on Quan Zhen Daoism

https://www.amazon.com/Teachings-Practices-Quanzhen-Philosophy-Paperback/dp/0791460460

Also Chan Buddhism is heavily influenced by Daoism so he should look into that as well.

This one is my favorite (by Johnathan Star):

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Ching-Definitive-Lao-Tzu/dp/158542269X

This is not a pocket edition, and in fact is quite large, because it has a verbatim translation in the back as well as a fairly sizable introduction, which explains some of the difficulties when translating such a text. The gist of his style is to leave the mystery in the words. So he tries to leave the same level of ambiguity from the original Chinese in the translation of each passage.
For a smaller version by Johnathan Star:

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Ching-Translation-Definitive-Cornerstone/dp/1585426180

Although this one is pretty much just the text.

Michael Saso is, if memory serves, a Jesuit as well as a Daoshi. He traveled a lot doing academic research and visited a lot of different Daoist Temples. While doing this he collected recipes that the Daoshis used to cook their food. When I tried to get a copy I found the book sold out, so I got a copy from interlibrary loan and photocopied it. The recipes are simple, quite tasty, and, not that difficult to prepare. I'd recommend the book to anyone interested in this subject.
https://www.amazon.ca/Taoist-Cookbook-Michael-Saso/dp/0804830371

I enjoyed this Burton Watson translation, although it's not the complete collection, it includes the most important parts. https://www.amazon.com/Zhuangzi-Basic-Writings/dp/0231129599

I'm curious what others think of Watson's translation?

Yes, read up on zuowang:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuowang

In particular, Livia Kohn's study of the topic and Sima Chengzhen's renowned text Zuowanglun is worth a read:

http://www.amazon.com/Sitting-Oblivion-Heart-Daoist-Meditation/dp/1931483167/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449767361

Another famous work, albeit a little mysterious in some regards, is the Secret of the Golden Flower:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_of_the_Golden_Flower

http://www.thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/

Finally, there's these two videos by an author on Daoist works, Louis Komjathy, that might be of interest for you, the first being a practical instruction on Daoist meditation and the second being a lecture on Daoist meditation:

https://vimeo.com/59304511

https://vimeo.com/23601671

Yi-Ping Ong's translation was my first read of the Tao Te Cheng. As I've read more various translations, this one I still consider the most "authentic" reading in English of the original:
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/tao-te-ching-lao-tzu/1100013724?ean=9781593082567


On the other hand, my personal favorite and simplest translation (the one I share if people ask me about taoism) is Jonathan Star's translation. Very different than Yi-Ping's but conveys the messages in 'layman's terms'. I do not think it is 1:1 though:
https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Ching-Translation-Definitive-Cornerstone/dp/1585426180/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494859323&sr=8-1&keywords=Tao+Te+Ching%3A+The+New+Translation+from+Tao+Te+Ching

Indeed, Taoism has shamanic roots. But keep in mind that Taoism is much broader and more complicated than most people realize. I recommend reading Taoism: An Essential Guide by Eva Wong for a better understanding of how it evolved from shamanism.

https://www.amazon.com/Taoism-Essential-Guide-Eva-Wong-ebook/dp/B00ATMWJZ8

As for books on shamanism, Michael Harner’s “The Way of the Shaman” is considered classic.

https://www.amazon.com/Way-Shaman-Michael-Harner/dp/0062503731

Edited: grammar, additional book link

Almost everyone in this thread could do with checking out Eva Wong's Taoism an Essential Guide. It is a history book on Taoism by a practitioner that gives an overview of all the various things that can be described as Taoist. Much of the western popular knowledge on Taoism comes from purely intellectualized readings of the Tao Te Jing without any of the elements of even the basic refinement practices, because when the west first came into heavy contact with China, Taoism was looked down upon by the ruling Manchu people and the translators were mostly christian missionaries.


https://www.amazon.com/Taoism-Essential-Guide-Eva-Wong-ebook/dp/B00ATMWJZ8

Read this book:

Sitting in Oblivion: The Heart of Daoist Meditation
https://www.amazon.com/Sitting-Oblivion-Heart-Daoist-Meditation/dp/1931483167

I like this book, it contains a re-arranged TTC and excerpts from the Liezi and Zhuangzi:

• http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Special-Edition-Sayings-Chuang/dp/1934255130/
  
  Also, don't forget the I Ching. It's not just a fortune-telling thing, it's an attempt to categorize all things in the universe. Mainly a Confucian work but integrates into Daoism. For that I recommend the Wilhelm/Baynes translation, with the Huang translation acting more as a commentary to Wilhelm/Baynes discussing the historical and mythological background to the hexagrams and lines.
  
  
• http://www.amazon.com/Ching-Book-Changes-Bollingen-XIX/dp/069109750X/
  
• http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Ching-Anniversary-Definitive-Translation/dp/1594773866/
  
  You can read the Wilhelm/Baynes translation here (except for the Ten Wings of Confucius and the more detailed re-translation, all three available in the book):
  
  
• http://deoxy.org/iching

https://www.amazon.com/365-Tao-Meditations-Ming-Dao-Deng/dp/0062502239

365 Tao Daily Meditations by Deng Ming-Dao

It’s this book. Part of Tao is understanding what works for you and what doesn’t. I don’t get much from the Tao Te Ching I have trouble understand it and interpreting its meaning but I understand this book it puts it into a form that works for me so in forms of Tao I think this book makes a lot of sense for me. 365 daily lessons each with a title, symbol, poem, and passage. The author is also a world renowned Taoist. To you, peace be the journey.

This is a great translation if you're willing to pay for it: http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Golden-Flower-Thomas-Cleary/dp/0062501933/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Consider the classic Daodejing. There are many, many translations. My personal favorites are Liu Ming, Red Pine and Ellen Chen.

I found I found Zhuangzi (Chuang Tzu): Basic Writings, translated by Burton Watson helpful. It's very coherent as Watson has gone through the work of Zhuangzi and presented us with much core, essential material.

i use this in my midday meditation.

http://www.amazon.com/365-Tao-Meditations-Ming-Dao-Deng/dp/0062502239

and i like it.

The Secret of the Golden Flower is a classic meditation manual with heavy Taoist influence:

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Golden-Flower-Thomas-Cleary/dp/0062501933/s=books&qid=1268066467

Do not get the Wilhelm/Jung version, it's based on a very corrupted text.