#453 in History books

Reddit mentions of China Marches West: The Qing Conquest of Central Eurasia

Sentiment score: 3
Reddit mentions: 3

We found 3 Reddit mentions of China Marches West: The Qing Conquest of Central Eurasia. Here are the top ones.

China Marches West: The Qing Conquest of Central Eurasia
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Found 3 comments on China Marches West: The Qing Conquest of Central Eurasia:

u/zobaleh · 3 pointsr/Sino

u/Erebus_of_darkness, u/Osroes-the-300th

There is a helpful and basic introductory series called "History of Imperial China". I have not read their books on the Yuan & Ming or the Qing, but I liked what I saw in their book on the Tang. They're basic, topical, and makes for an easy overview.

In America, the "New Qing" school mostly dominates discussion of Qing Dynasty history. China tends to view the Manchu Qing (and the Mongol Yuan) as part of a multicultural "China" state that has existed since time immemorial. "New Qing" disputes that by essentially arguing that the Manchu only considered "China" as one part of their empire, and thus ruled over Buddhist theocratic Tibet, Buddhist nomadic Mongolia, and Muslim Xinjiang (among others) differently from how it administered core China. This obviously ruffles feathers in China, since this ethnic-focused historiography seems to be trying to start something, but both sides of the ocean can probably agree that it at least provides a way of looking at things, including at ethnic relationships in Qing China. For New Qing, China Marches West is perhaps the most salient right now. You can also look at The Manchus (and look at The Tibetans in the same series while you're at it, since Tibetan Buddhism and Tibetans played important roles in the Ming, Qing, and modern China). Mark Eliot also is a prominent "New Qing" professor, and this seems to be his hallmark book, The Manchu Way.

During the Ming Dynasty, the Neo-Confucianism ideology solidified and became the guiding philosophy of East Asia. For a primary source peek at this philosophy, this translation of Wang Yangming seems a decent start.

The Forbidden City is the crowning achievement of Chinese palatial architecture, a culmination of imperial wisdom transmitted across thousands of years. No less, this book is a great, short introductory resource that is visually pleasing. I don't think it's a direct translation of the author's authoritative Chinese works, but he is the foremost expert on the architecture of the Forbidden City, and Nancy Steinhardt is an excellent authority on traditional Chinese architecture.

See if you can't find this book, The Class of 1761, in a library, going through the minutiae of the Chinese imperial examination system. I plan to look at this as well.

Chinese literature and opera came into maturity during the Ming and Qing Dynasty. So if you're feeling for long reads, read any of the Four Classic Novels of China. In particular, the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, while not covering Ming or Qing (written in late Yuan/early Ming) will let you interface with literally any East Asian since they will know all the anecdotes and the Dream of the Red Chamber is noted for its extreme depth (entire departments devoted to studying it) and particular insight into mid-Qing society.

For opera, probably the Peony Pavilion is good enough, as a classic of Kunqu opera, the OG Chinese opera.

And honestly, just go to chinaknowledge.de ... It's a very comprehensive website surprisingly enough.

u/johngalt1234 · 1 pointr/history

The Ming Dynasty whilst having gunpowder didn't have quite the infrastructure and logistical prowess that the Qing has.

Hence the difference in being able to maintain an army to take on the Dzungar Mongols. According to:

https://www.amazon.com/China-Marches-West-Conquest-Central/dp/0674057430

Supply Depots and Magazines to help supply the army as well as the economic strength unavailable to Ming Dynasty comparatively contributed.

Chinese also demographically was able to expand west due to the Columbian Exchange which supplied the Chinese with Potatoes opened up much more of the steppe lands to Agriculture.

This combined with Military farms in the Western Frontiers increased the availability of nearby supplies and reduced the cost of transport due to closer proximity of farms to the army.

This is also combined with alliances with mongol tribes due to successful diplomacy.

u/cariusQ · -1 pointsr/AskHistorians

China really only started to directly control Tibet during Qing dynasty (late 1600s). Anything that claim of suzerainty or sovereignty by the Chinese government before that was bullshit. Fun fact, Tibetan Empire from late 600 to early 800 AD was greatest security threat to the Chinese Empire. Tibetan defeated Chinese army of 100,000 in late 600 AD and sacked Chinese capital Changan in late 700 AD. By around 820 AD whole Tibetan empire disintegrated and not much was heard from them again. In the mean time buddhism spread and became important part of Tibet's culture.

In mid 1500 AD Tibetan buddhism spread to Mongol in Mongolia. Most mongol converted to Tibetan buddhism.

Let's talk about Qing dynasty. Fun fact about Qing was that the ruling class was not Chinese, they were Manchu. Qing also subjugated the Mongol before they conquered China. Qing needs Mongol to control the Chinese because there was less than a million Manchu when they conquered China, while there was around 300-400 million Chinese in the empire. To ensure the loyalty of the Mongol, Manchu intermarry with Mongol and needs the support of Mongol's spiritual leader(i.e. various Tibetan Lamas).

The greatest security threat to the Qing was Dzungar Mongol in modern day Xinjiang. To prevent Dalai Lama from falling into Dzungar's hand, Qing just invaded the country and "protect" Dalai Lama from falling into wrong hand. Eventually, Dzungar were defeated and completely massacred. Read china marches west for more background.

So in short, Manchu needs Mongol to oppress the Chinese. To earn Mongol's loyalty, Manchu need the support of the Mongol's spirtual leader, which was Dalai Lama and etc. So Qing just invaded and annexed to prevent the Lamas from falling into "wrong hand".

Modern China claimed to be successor to the Qing dynasty, so they claim Tibet as integrate part of China.

The second part of your question is more difficult and I won't attempt to answer it.