Reddit mentions of God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships

You may want to read God and the Gay Christian.

I think he surrounding himself with all these homophobic information sources is just going to make it worse. Have you tried giving him a good book on being gay (or other information sources)?


I don't really have any to recommend unfortunately but you can probably find some good recommendations on one of the LGBT subs on reddit.


I think it would be good for him to have to other side properly explained to him.


EDIT: I've been trying to look up some good books. This one (God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines) seems pretty good so far. Building a Bridge by James Martin, Gay and Catholic by Eve Tushnet and Sexual Authenticity by Melinda Selmys also seem to be highly recommended pro-gay books on the catholic books part of amazon.


The sub r/GayChristians may also help


Like this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/GayChristians/comments/8sp5lu/im_a_christian_boy_in_high_school_and_im_gay/

Gay here, definitely didn't choose. In fact, tried really hard to will myself away from it. It didn't work.

The bible really doesn't say too much about it at all. There are a few verses about it in the context of lust and sex alone but that is about it. I am of the opinion that you can't really take these verses and apply them to a modern understanding of homosexuality, one that includes marriage, family and committed relationships. I think when the bible was written homosexuality was thought of as being a purely sexual construct and therefore was thought to always be sinful. Just like heterosexual relationships are if they are only experienced in a sexual aspect alone. Now that we know that gay people can accomplish all the things in relationships that straight people can accomplish, I think we need to re-evaluate the concept along with our new understanding.

There are a lot of LGBT affirming churches if you think that may be of help. You may also find /r/OpenChristian to be of help. If you are interested in learning more about the bible and homosexuality from a more affirming perspective, you may find this video helpful. Matthew Vines, the guy in the video, also has a book out.

God and the Gay Christian is a good place to start. If I get some downtime, I can try to sketch it out here.

HAVE THEM READ THE BOOK GOD AND THE GAY CHRISTIAN. IT'S A GREAT WAY TO GET THEM TO REALIZE HOMOSEXUALITY ISN'T AS INCOMPATIBLE WITH CHRISTIANITY, PARTICULARLY THE NEW TESTAMENT/COVENANT, AS PEOPLE THINK. IF THEY'RE WILLING TO PUT IN THE TIME TO VOICE THEIR OPINION TO YOU, THEY MAY BE WILLING TO PUT IN A LITTLE MORE TIME TO REALLY CHECK OUT THE SUBJECT.

Reading through your responses to comments so far, and the strength with which you argue back, it kinda sounds like you were asking this just so that you could refute it.

In case I'm wrong, and I really hope I am, I would suggest the book God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines. It lays out the arguments well, in a far better context than Reddit can, with a lot of footnotes and references, and does so from a conservative Evangelical perspective.

You don't need to agree with it, but it will give you the answer to the question you are asking here.

I strongly recommend you read God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships by Matthew Vines.

Hey bro, I'm so sorry to hear that this happened. Don't know where you are now (school and away, living at home while working, etc?) Regardless, it's probably really tough. But know that there's a ton of support out there! In terms of popular literature you could give your parents, there's Torn by Justin Lee and God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines. I wish you the absolute best of luck on traversing this next step in your coming out journey. It won't be easy, but you've made it this far. Here if you need an ear. Sending you positive vibes and a giant brohug :)

> It just that Corinthians 6:9 says that Practicing Homosexuals go to Hell

Actually the verse doesn't say that. It literally says:

οὔτε πόρνοι οὔτε εἰδωλολάτραι οὔτε μοιχοὶ οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται οὔτε κλέπται οὔτε πλεονέκται, ⸀οὐ μέθυσοι, οὐ λοίδοροι, οὐχ ἅρπαγες βασιλείαν θεοῦ ⸆ κληρονομήσουσιν.

There is great debate about what ἀρσενοκοῖται (which has been translated as "homosexual") actually meant. 1st century Greeks didn't have committed, monogamous same-sex relationships in their mindset like we have today, and the word was certainly referring to something that was in their mindset. Once we figure that out, we can then go on to applying it to today's culture and language. Matthew Vines' God and the Gay Christian has an in depth look at that verse.

As to the title of your post [with priests and clergy spreading lies], please know that they all don't. You have to find the good ones. I've visited churches, gone up after the service, and asked the pastors point blank what their stance is on same sex relationships. Don't be fooled by the "oh we love gay people" line. Ask specifically, "would you marry a same-sex couple?" That'll bring their true colors out. Or if you don't want to go down in person, you can just email the church or message them on facebook and ask if they marry same-sex couples.

If you haven't yet, please look into the Gay Christian Network. I think many Christians today have lost sight of Jesus' message, and I think the GCN is a great organization that is trying to recapture it, especially in regards to LGBT people.

Read God and the Gay Christian.

I know what you mean. This book honestly helped me.
My experience was not an easy one. My relationship with God continues to be a big part of my life. But there was a period of time there that I turned away, afraid of what I was becoming. Afraid of not being accepted by God. It was a huge low point in my life. I realized I couldn’t accept myself as a gay woman and ignore my love for Christ. I also knew I would never be happy denying the feelings I have for women. At that point I slowly began to rebuild my relationship with Christ and accept my true self. There were definitely days that I took several leaps backwards. But I kept on, and I’m happier. I hope that some day I find someone with whom I can share not only my life but my faith with as well.
I also suggest following r/openchristian, maybe reposting there as well. There are plenty of people in our community who have gone through this. I’ll be praying for you 🤓. Feel free to pm me as well if you need to talk.

In addition to the great suggestions you’ve already gotten, you might try giving him some books that help normalize his experiences - this article and this list might be good places to start. There’s also this book I just came across, which I don’t know anything about beyond the amazon reviews but might be helpful for him to hear from a religious authority.

It's difficult to get into the theological arguments for an affirming position over Reddit, but I've got a few resources that might help you learn more about the debate and implications of an affirming position. As a gay Christian, I can say they were also helpful to accepting and affirming myself and providing answers for some of the questions I was asking.
The book that gets recommended the most is [God and the Gay Christian.] (https://www.amazon.com/God-Gay-Christian-Biblical-Relationships/dp/160142518X) It's really good at laying out the basic theological arguments for affirming lgbt Christians and explores the type a-type b argument (the debate on whether lgbt Christians can marry or need to remain celibate).
If you're looking for an in depth theological discussing that discusses all of the reasons for and against affirming lgbt Christians, [Bible, Gender, and Sexuality] (https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Gender-Sexuality-Reframing-Relationships/dp/0802868630) is an incredible resource for looking at all of the arguments for and against affirming lgbt Christians, as well as the shortfalls of each position. It ultimately comes to an affirming conclusion, but it does the non-affirming side justice. A lot of the arguments in God and the Gay Christian can be traced to this book, but this is more in depth. The author, James Brownson, is a professor at Western Theological Seminary, and does his best to give everyone (even those who don't agree with him) something to think about.
For some perspective of what life as a gay Christian is like, I'd recommend checking out Blue Babies Pink. You can either read Brett Trapp's stories online or listen to his podcast, but he does a good job explaining what it was like to grow up and live as a gay Christian, and the struggles he faced coming out, accepting himself, and trying to live in accordance with his faith. It doesn't explore theology, but also is safe for work. It gives a good perspective to what many gay Christians go through.
If you're interested in ministering to the lgbt community, I'd recommend meeting and listening to people of faith who belong to the lgbt community (if you haven't done this already). Listen to their stories and the pain many of them go through. Listen to what their specific needs are. Many of them will be the same needs everyone else needs like community, support, and places to use their gifts. Listen to how their needs for these differ than what is being provided to them or they are allowed to participate in.
Ultimately your job as an ally (if you choose to be one) is to not use your own voice, but to amplify the voices of members of the lgbt community. Don't try to speak on behalf of us, but use your position to give us voices. Put members of the community on the podium instead of yourself whenever possible, because we're the most qualified to speak on our needs and our pain. Of course that doesn't mean you can't discuss lgbt issues with others without a member of the lgbt community present. There are many forums you can go to that we cannot. Just make sure when you do you do your best to articulate the experiences that we've had.
Most importantly make sure that any discussion of the lgbt community you have is discussing the fact that regardless of position, the discussion is about people. It's regarding the life lgbt Christians and non-believers experience every day. Nothing dehumanize us and turns us away from the church more than being treated as just an issue.
I hope this gives you some good places to start. As a gay Christian, I've got grace for people like you who are asking legitimate questions and are wrestling with what the bible says vs. what the Bible means and what God says. Even if you end up with a non-affirming position, I believe it doesn't have to be inherently hurtful to the community. As long as you recognize the pain the lgbt community as a whole has experienced, how most churches aren't equipped to satisfy our spiritual needs, and recognize what you're truely asking of gay Christians when you say they need to remain celibate, you can still help the church better minister to lgbt Christians. I wish you the best on your spiritual journey

Time for her to read a book

This post has inspired me to make a YouTube video on this subject, so I’ll share that when it’s done. But in the meantime, here are some quick tips for dealing with conservative Christian parents (most of this should probably work with other religious parents as well, but my work has been with Christians, so I can’t say offhand how this might need to change for other faith groups):

Listen and let them talk as much as you’re able. This depends a lot on what you can handle; step away when it gets to be too much. But when they talk, you can learn a lot about misconceptions they hold about gay people that you’ll want to help correct. For example, many conservative Christian parents mistakenly believe that gay people choose to be gay or that it can be changed through prayer or therapy. As long as they believe these things, they’re not likely to be open to alternate ways of reading the Bible, so finding resources that address those issues first can be helpful.

Share your story and let them sit with it. As tempting as it can be to jump into arguing about the Bible with them, that almost never changes parents’ minds. Instead, what does change minds is having time to sit with their own children’s stories, realizing how much pain their child has been through. Let them know things like when you first knew you were different, fears you had about telling them, attempts you may have made to become straight (if that’s something you did), etc. You may be surprised how many of the things that seem obvious to you will be shocking to them. Give them time to sit with it; it will take a while for it to sink in.

Connect them with resources wherever you can, but make sure you’re getting support for yourself. Don’t wait for your parents to come around before you live your life. It may take them years to understand, and you can’t pin your own self-esteem to their approval, even if that’s hard to accept right now. Reaffirm your love for them, stay in conversation with them when you’re able to, but make sure you have your own support network that doesn’t require their approval.

Try to connect them with other parents:

If possible, one of the best things you can do is to connect them with other Christian parents who have been through similar situations (but who have become more accepting)—they can be a sounding board for them and allow them to have some much-needed peer support as they work through this. There are some private Facebook groups for parents that I can’t publicly link to, but a couple of good places to start are:

https://justbecausehebreathes.com

and

https://www.freedhearts.org

(The first one may appeal more to parents who are more conservative and/or just starting out, while the second one may be more geared to those a little further along.)

​

When they’re ready to read something:

Many parents aren’t ready to read a book right away, but if/when they are, some books you could try include:

“My Son, Beloved Stranger” by Carrol Grady (written by an SDA mom; speaks to very conservative parents, but can be tough to find)

“Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate” by Justin Lee (disclaimer: this is my book, and it feels weird to recommend my own stuff, but it was written specifically for situations like this, and I’ve had SO MANY PARENTS tell me it was the thing that changed their minds and helped them accept their LGBTQ+ kids)

“Mom, I’m Gay” by Susan Cottrell (another book by a Christian mom of a gay child, not quite as conservative in its language but still helpful to many Christian parents)

For parents who are ready for more in-depth Bible analysis, Matthew Vines’ book God and the Gay Christian is a good introduction to the Bible arguments—but I recommend that you wait on this until your parents have already dealt with the emotions surrounding your coming out and are past the idea that orientation can change; otherwise, they’ll dismiss these arguments without giving them a chance. This is a more advanced book, not as much for parents just starting out.

​

There are lots more resources available online:

My website includes lots of blog posts on things conservative Christians often say, Bible passages, and so on, including a video series I’m doing on the subject for my YouTube channel—and I’m working on another big resource that I’ll be linking to shortly, so feel free to watch that or message me for more specific resources.

So that's a start, but please still feel free to message me for any more specific details or resources.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/God-Gay-Christian-Matthew-Vines/dp/160142518X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LMEMKFQX4BKV&keywords=god+and+the+gay+christian&qid=1564563581&s=gateway&sprefix=god+an%2Caps%2C235&sr=8-1 is a good book that may sway your dad to accept gay people, depending on if he is a misguided christian or a i hate gays because i am a 'christian' 'christian' do/call yourself what you feel most comfortable with and do what makes you happy, if that is coming out then come out if you want to wait wait, if you never feel like coming out don't and because your parents are seperated at least if you tell him the consequences are minimal, if you are in danger mental or physical don't come out. wish you luck

You're not alone! I've deconstructed a lot of the ridiculous fundy beliefs that I was raised with but Jesus is far too compelling to let go of. It's amazing how much bad theology isn't clearly reflected in scripture (which is also plainly fully of errors). You may find some support and refuge in places like:

The Liturgists Podcast and community

Books like Shameless or Jesus Feminist or God and the Gay Christian

Progressive churches (which you might locate more easily using Church Clarity)

Subreddits like /r/openChristian or /r/gayChristians

I'm sorry for all the ways that the church and cultural Christianity has been confusing and hurtful. If you ever want to chat some time feel free to send me a message. <3