Reddit mentions of Japanese in Mangaland: Learning The Basics

Japanese in Mangaland: Learning The Basics. This one looks interesting (I've never read them though):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/4889961151/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1880656906&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1CS4B5KSEJW9C9QQR9S4




I read these when I started learning kanji after I already had a basic grasp of grammar and vocabulary. It's the Doraemon Kanji dictionary, meant for Japanese school kids. They were fun, and went through the grade levels in Kanji in order. I still remember the specific manga for various characters every time I see that symbol.

http://tinyurl.com/yeb5c7a (amazon.co.jp)

There was a similar question here a year ago (https://www.reddit.com/r/visualnovels/comments/78tr3b/jops_of_rvisualnovels_tell_us_your_stories_of/), and I should probably re-post my reply from there, considering it apparently was well-regarded.

---------------------------

I was introduced to anime at around late 2007, and by the first half of 2008 I noticed that I started to understand some simple words and phrases. That seemed like a chance to learn a language with minimal effort, so I gave it a try. The other factor was that kanji were always mysterious (and therefore attractive) to me, and I was really curious how a writing system like this works.

So I went to a nearby bookstore and bought a few Japanese language textbooks. Immediately I fell in love with the grammar, which was much more logical and structurally-beautiful than anything I have ever seen before that. Unfortunately though, all the textbooks that I bought had the same big flaw: they required you to learn a lot of words and kanji by heart to be able to read the example texts even in the early chapters.

Since my visual memory and lexical memory are really weak, that was like hitting a wall. I wanted to learn more grammar, but couldn't move forward because of arbitrary lexicon requirenments. So, at around 2009 I gave up on the textbooks I had and started googling for alternatives, and quickly stumbled on what I to this day consider the best language textbook ever: "Japanese in Mangaland".

https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Mangaland-Learning-Marc-Bernabe/dp/4889961151 https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-MangaLand-Basic-Intermediate-Level/dp/4889961860 https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-MangaLand-Intermediate-Level/dp/4889961879

It is brilliantly well-structured, gives all the "conversational grammar" that is completely ignored in "textbooks for serious people", but is dominating the Japanese found in anime and manga. It also gives a lot of examples, which look like taken from anime/manga situations, which makes it even more fun. And, most importantly for me, it does not ask you to learn 50-70 arbitrary words every chapter just to understand the grammar examples.

If you are anime/manga/VN fan, and still below N3 level, you should absolutely check Japanese in Mangaland out.

At around the same time I also stumbled upon a very efficient method of learning kanji: mnemonics. Instead of trying to remember each of the characters visually of mechanically (by writing it many times), you can look at its components (called 'radicals') and derive (or at least associate) the character's meaning from them. It does not work for all the kanji, but for those it does, it is so efficient, that you can easily learn 400-500 basic kanji within 2-3 weeks.

Unfortunately, the book that I was using for that is not available in English, but I've heard that "Kanji in Mangaland" and "Remembering the Kanji" are somewhat similar to what I've been using, so you should check it out also. Even if you know more than 500 kanji, you should try the mnemonics just to understand the method and be alble to apply it yourself.

After that I became very confident in my language skills. To the point that I ordered Suzumiya Haruhi light novels from Japanese Amazon. That was a mistake. I spent like two days deciphering the prologue (4 pages), and had to give up for some time. The problem was, despite knowing most of N3 grammar, and around 500 kanji, it was not nearly enough to read unadapted text by Tanigawa Nagaru. There were too many unfamiliar words and kanji. And the fact that the senteces were insanely long didn't help at all.

Thus I needed a way, to learn more words and kanji. And I found it in writing song lyrics by memory. The technique is like this: you take your favorite anime/VN song. Since it is your favorite, you should remember it somewhat well. You find the lyrics online and go through it, looking up all the unfamiliar words and kanji. And then, when you have free time, paper, and a pen (boring university lectures are especially good for that) you try to write the song's lyrics by memory. After repeating this several times, you should know all the song's lexicon and kanji quite well, and can move to the second favorite one. After doing for 5-6 songs, your vocabulary should become much bigger and your kanji count would probably be around 800-900.

For me that was the point when I tried to read some manga (for me it was "Kami nomi zo Shiru Sekai"), and by the end of the 3rd volume I suddenly realized that I AM ACTUALLY READING IT UNTRANSLATED. Reading as in "reading without looking into dictionary every few minutes". That was one of the happiest moments in my life.

Unfortunately, it was still not nearly enough to read Suzumiya. Nevertheless, it was enough to start reading simpler LN: "Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai". That made me feel that I AM ACTUALLY READING IT feeling again.

It was around 2012, and at around the same time I discovered the VN medium, starting with F/sn. I did not dare to try it untranslated yet (remembering the Haruhi fiasco that happened twice), but in about a year of reading simple manga and LNs I decided to try some simple VN as an experiment. So I went to VNDB in search of well-rated untranslated simple VN (for the metric of "simplicity" I chose it being a SoL nukige), and found Kanojo x Kanojo x Kanojo. It was even easier to read than I expected.

So after imprinting a lot of anatomic vocabulary into my brain, I finally tried a much more challenging task: F/ha, which was yet untranslated at that time. And... I actually managed it. I cannot say it was easy, but I was still understanding what was written.

After the realization that I can read untranslated Nasu, it was a matter of time untill I completely stopped bothering with any translation for any Japanese media that I watch or read.

Happy End

------------------------------------

It was in late 2013. After that I basically stopped "learning" Japanese and started "using" it. Everything becomes super easy when you can google Japanese words and grammar structures in Japanese. By now I have finished a lot of untranslated work including notably hard ones like Muramasa and Monobeno, passed JLPT N1 (it was my first JLPT lol) two years ago, and am researching ways of relocating to Japan.

すごい すごい!

Eu comecei com este livro que encontrei numa livraria em Espanha, é facil de ler e esta muito bem explicado, uma boa introducao a quem nao tem bases nenhumas.

https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Mangaland-Learning-Marc-Bernabe/dp/4889961151

Depois disso foi consultar livros similares de outros autores para aprofundar mais e claro animes, filmes de Takeshi Kitana ou ate Kurosawa, mangas no idioma original.

Depois de disso aulas formais e principalmente na ultima fase estar no Japao.

O Japones falado nem é dificil, apenas é uma estrutra de linguagem diferente de todas as ocidentais. Um idioma mimalista onde uma palavra repetida pode fazer uma frase inteira como aquela que comecei o post.

A parte mais complicada é a leitura e principalmente a escrita. O Japones usa tres alfabetos diferentes e nao existem espacos entre as palavras, um dos alfabetos é particularmente dificil, os Kanji ou pictogramas que nao sao mais que a lingua chinesa incorporada no japones.

It's like asking how long it will take to reach 1-dan, it varies so much depending on time commitment, motivation, personal ability and method. I'd expect it would take at least a couple years, though there are examples of people becoming somewhat fluent in 6 months, so anything is possible.

As for the best approach, you'll find lots of opinions. I think people are generally bad at remembering what it was like when they started learning and knew nothing, so all those "here's how I'd do it if I started all over again" are not always the best advice but I'll try to give you my version of it anyway:

• Start with a generic "learn Japanese" method, those won't take you very far but you have to start somewhere. Your first goals should be to get a feeling for how Japanese works, basic grammar, a few basic words and most importantly learn to read and write hiragana and katakana (the phonetic system used in Japanese writing). I recommend the Japanese in Mangaland series of books, but any other decent beginner method will do.
  
  
• In parallel get the JapanesePod101 podcasts. Those really helped me a lot, as I would listen to them every day and build listening ability. They start from the very beginning too. Continue listening to them, especially during the next step for motivation.
  
  
• Now this is going to be controversial but after doing introductory material for some time, if you're really committed to learning Japanese and be efficient at it, you have to bite the bullet and learn the Kanji (Chinese characters): all 2000+ of them that are in common use. Fortunately that isn't that hard if you use the Heisig method, you can use the Kanji Koohii website to manage the flashcards you'll use for memorization. It's a bit controversial because with this method you're learning the Kanji in isolation without learning how they are actually used in Japanese. It's still 100% worth it. This turbo-charged my Japanese learning like nothing else before. It took me 3 months to go through the book and learn all the characters. Once you're familiar with the characters, it's 10 times easier to learn vocabulary, even if your goal is to listen to shogi commentary, it's still the best way of doing that in my opinion (plus you'll be able to read shogi books eventually)
  
  
• Once you're done with the kanji you need to start building vocabulary, using your new kanji knowledge, it will be much more efficient, as you learn vocabulary, you learn how to write them using kanji you already know and as a consequence learn how those kanji are pronounced and used. This is why this method works so well. For vocabulary I recommend using the Anki flashcard software, you can download pre-made decks of vocabulary. Look for Core 2k, 6k and 10k which are a set of most common words complete with example sentences and audio, there are alternative but I think those are the best lists. A few thousands words plus shogi specific vocabulary should be enough to get a decent understanding of shogi programs.
  
  Anyway this isn't everything, you need to continue with more grammar, practice, and so on while doing that, but this is the gist of what I wish I knew when I got started. I guess it can seem a bit overwhelming but just get started and go one step at a time...
  
  Also you'll need this: Dictionary :)

Don't use Anki, it's trash. Memrise is much better. Here are some decks you should check out if you want to broad your knowledge: https://www.memrise.com/course/92902/the-ultimate-kanji-course/ ||| https://www.memrise.com/course/265789/core-japanese-vocabulary/

Grammar is very important because no matter how many thousands of words you learn, it's not use if you can't understand or create your own phrases. I may know 5000 words but what's the point if I can't even pin point the subject or the verb. Japanese has a LOT of meanings, both direct and indirect, many of which can only be picked up by having a solid grasp of the grammar. I've been studying Japanese for two years now, and I know some books that really helped me out when I was starting out. Here they are: https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Mangaland-Learning-Marc-Bernabe/dp/4889961151 ||| https://www.amazon.es/Dictionary-Japanese-Grammar-Seiichi-Makino/dp/4789004546/ref=asc_df_4789004546/?tag=googshopes-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=54379277235&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5420217605497447637&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9049072&hvtargid=pla-138222419115&psc=1

Now, an important aspect for any language learner is to put the language he's studying into its context. Languages are like alive beings. They should not be put in cages until you deem it reasonable to free them, otherwise you cannot expect them to behave like proper living beings. They are no more than objects put there so you can coil or pet them whenever you want. What I mean by all of this is that the sooner you using or hearing Japanese in its proper context the better, because not only you'll feel more motivated, but your brain will also start picking up things faster and faster, to the point there will be words you are sure have never heard in your entire life but which can understand nontheless. And that is fucking amazing I tell you. If you fear things you have previously struggled to learn, then yeah, they will surely at some point skip your mind. It's a sad prospect, but it's the truth. There will be times in which something you put a lot of effort into memoricing or understanding will be forgotten. That's why it is extremely important to put those things into practice, whereas listening or reading, so they don't do that anymore, and that's why Visual Novels are an excelent tool to achieve it. Not only you learn more stuff, but also see again plenty of words and grammar points you have already gone through. It's a bit tricky setting those things to work on western PC's, as Japanese are xenophobic bunch who do not see with good eyes filthy gaijins like us dirtying their mostly porn games, but here are some helpful guides on the matter: https://djtguide.neocities.org/ ||| https://docs.google.com/document/d/15uvv72eVFBtcOlfHaHUfT_HhZsgWxd7VjT9u-zVSwdw/edit

If you need more help, you can mail me.