Reddit mentions of NurtureShock: New Thinking About Children

There's a chapter in Nurture Shock about why kids lie and what can be done about it. The authors suggest that the typical strategies to promote truth-telling backfire.

This part struck me as maybe related to what's going on for you:

>Lying also becomes a way to increase a child's power and sense of control -- by manipulating friends with teasing, by bragging to assert his status, and by learning that he can fool his parents.

>Thrown into elementary school, many kids begin lying to their peers as a coping mechanism: it's a way to vent frustration or get attention. They might be attempting to compensate, feeling that they're slipping behind their peers. Any sudden spate of lying or dramatic increase in lying is a sign that something has changed in that child's life, in a way that troubles him: 'Lying is a symptom -- often of a bigger problem behavior,' explained Talwar. 'It's a strategy to keep themselves afloat,' (82-83).

The lying about mundane stuff strikes me as your daughter trying to assert some control in her life.

So what do?

You know the fable The Boy Who Cried Wolf? And you know the story of George Washington cutting down the cherry tree? There were studies done to see which would prevent/reduce lies. It's the cherry tree story.

>The shepard boy ends up suffering the ultimate punishment [he gets eaten by the wolf for his lying], but that lies get punished is not news to children. When asked if lies are always wrong, 92% of five year olds say yes. And when asked why lies are wrong, most say the problem with lying is that you get in trouble for it. In that sense, young kids process the risk of lying by considering only their own self-protection. It takes years for the children to understand lying on a more sophisticated moral ground. It isn't until age eleven that the majority demonstrate awareness of its harm to others; at that point, 48% say the problem with lying is that it destroys trust, and 22% say it carries guilt. Even then, a third still say the problem with lying is being punished.

[...]

>Increasing the threat of punishment for lying only makes children hyperaware of the potential personal cost. It distracts the child from learning how his lies impact others.

Even if you say, "I won't be upset if you lied, just tell me the truth," the child is still wary. They don't trust your promise and want to get back in your good graces. They don't want to make themselves happy, they want to make you happy.

So you say, "I will not be upset with you if you [did whatever], and if you tell the truth I will be really happy," (86).

It's both immunity from the lie and a clear route back to your good graces. This is why the cherry tree story works better than the wolf one at reducing lying. Little George Washington receive both immunity and praise for telling the truth.

Finally, you should try avoiding putting your daughter in no-win situations. "Did you brush your teeth?" You know she didn't. "Did you leave the bread out?" You know she did. The only way out of this is for her to lie to you (in her mind at least). The book describes this as testing the child's honesty unnecessarily.

So in those situations, rather than test her honesty, just tell her again to brush her teeth or put the bread away. Essentially, you're not giving her the chance to lie.

Then you're going to have to address the avoiding toothbrushing and the leaving the bread open. But at least she won't be lying about it.

TL;DR: Stop setting her up to lie to you. Don't ask questions you know the answer to. You know she didn't brush her teeth. Don't bother asking. She's lying to avoid punishment and to get back in your good graces because she wants to please you/mom/dad/whoever.

My anecdotal experience contradicts this. I live in Berkeley, near the Oakland border. I see the little black dolls being just as coveted and fought over as any other, by my child and others.

One of the chapters in Nuture Shock had to do with racial education. The studies they discuss had a surprising result: because race makes many white parents uncomfortable, they simply do not discuss it. Children note the absence, and they fill it in with imaginings of their own.

Part of the recommended strategy, which I follow with my child, is simply to compliment the looks of black people. You occasionally note differences with a light touch, but you don't avoid discussing them out of fear or discomfort. "Lisa looks so pretty today: look, she has a butterfly clip in her hair."

Hitting is not good for kids or pets. It is how many were raised, so most people default to what they know, but that doesn't mean we can't learn better ways. There are many books on dogs and kids that can explain better why corporeal punishment is detrimental in the long run (Nurture Shock is a good one on kids, and others have listed good dog books).

Generally, dogs and young kids don't get the concept of the correlation between what they did and the punishment (it just makes them hand-shy), and kids that are old enough to get the concept are old enough to discipline in other ways.

Babies are resilient. Don't get too worked up on making sure everything is perfect. When your baby is an infant, make sure you are taking care of yourselves; a frazzled, sleep-deprived parent isn't what your baby need.

As your child grows, don't over-protect them and don't do for them what they can do for themselves. Sure they'll get a few bumps along the way but they will grow into a much more confident and secure person.

DO NOT, I repeat, do not read the book "What to Expect in Your First Year". We got that one, as well as "What to Expect When You're Expecting" as gifts. They should be called: "What Are All The Extremely Unlikely, Horrible Things That Could Possibly Go Wrong"

On the other hand, I highly recommend: NurtureShock. It is not specifically about infants but it does have a chapter that discusses the latest research on the downside of the "Baby Einstein" type videos. Also, it is full of advice for every stage of development from baby through adolescence. Sure wish I had it 10 years ago.

There's a good chapter in NurtureShock about that. It mostly tells you what you already know about the adverse effects of praise, but also goes a bit into keeping an eye out for and rewarding effort.

One of the best books regarding debunking popular parenting myths:

Nurture Shock, by Bronson and Merryman
http://www.amazon.com/NurtureShock-New-Thinking-About-Children/dp/0446504130/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1303248620&sr=8-1

It highlights the importance of effort vs. talent, and much more. One of my favs is stressing that the brain is like a muscle, regularly working it strengthens intelligence. Kids need to work on being smart~

Awesome book for any parent.

>I don’t regret having one, just extremely ashamed of being sexual and communicating it to girls and also showing it to the world. Attracting girls’ attention and whatnot isn’t very hard but progressing things to dating, holding hands and eventually sex is impossible. I can’t even call them or message them on Facebook or Whatsapp because I just feel like an idiot for doing so. Making a move in clubs and bars is also difficult although I once got close to leaving with a girl but she didn't want to. I got made fun of a lot growing up for not having a girlfriend and this made me feel like i do not deserve one. It doesn't matter if I've got the green light to go ahead I just feel really ashamed do it. Even something like looking at a fit girl wearing a short skirt makes me feel bad for checking her out and that I shouldn’t be doing it.


I know what you mean. I've been there myself, but even when I was there I was entirely self-aware of my shame and I was skeptical of the validity of my emotional reactions; I realized they were ingrained. Being aware of your emotional reactions allows you to be emotionally proactive. Your sex-negative problem is mostly an emotional issue, and not much else, right? I've been there. I wouldn't doubt that you are also decent looking and have both latent and actualized social skills. Most intelligent introverts have a lot of potential to be who they want to be because they know themselves more deeply than others. You must use your introverted nature to your advantage and recognize the differences in others and yourself. In all honesty, there are an infinite number of unwritten rules; everyone's abstract/emotional logic is different. Many of them are foundational and predictable, however; including yours and mine. Like anything else, being emotionally predictable is not a black/white issue. It is a grey area, and you have to balance your reliability with creativity.


Being made fun of for not having a girlfriend is just as sexist as being made fun of for not having a boyfriend; gender equal too. Were you ever shamed for not having a boyfriend? It's clearly a matter of groupthink and extroverted style; not for everyone. Dating relationships, for extroverts especially, are often attention-getting and showy. They wear their relationships like trophies won. Usually introverts prefer a more private relationship because they have less social desire and are often shamed because of it. Introverts are “themselves” more often in private. Extroverts are “themselves” more often in public. There is no shame deserved either way, regardless of popular opinion. Both styles have their strengths and weaknesses, and you should try to introject some of the traits that you enjoy in others; regardless of type. That is how you become balanced.


>I’m receiving counselling from a pastor who advocates the whole “no sex before marriage” thing and believes that people should only date to get married and sex is only for making kids which is stupid IMO because I do not plan on getting married anytime soon.


Counseling from a Catholic pastor? Watch out, that is one of the most notorious sex-negative societies out there. They own the abstinence-only charade while they parade horribles. Marriage is not the answer to anything; it is an institution of the state. Anything else attached is sentimental.


If you haven't already, I recommend doing an in-depth study of animal sexual behaviors; especially the most intelligent animals. All animals have sex for pleasure, but some animals are only driven to have sex at certain times of the year; humans are on a 24/7 system.


>I’ve tried the no fap route and gotten very high days counts but that hasn’t really helped me at all.


Sexual frustration doesn't help anyone. If you are mindful, then you can use your libido to further your goals, but it is not an all-cure.


>Got any sources to help overcome sex-negative perspectives? I’m interested in recreational sex not baby making sex.


Absolutely. I recommend starting with actual sex science and learning about male and female psychology and neurology. Then work your way into reading about sex culture. You should also study developmental psychology as you will probably need the clinical context in order to objectively self-evaluate your childhood influences; it is necessary for self-therapy. The best therapy will always be self-therapy; no one will ever know you better than yourself.


Evolutionary Science and Morals Philosophy:

The Selfish Gene

The Moral Landscape

The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined

Justice: What's The Right Thing To Do?


Sex Psychology, Science, and Neurology:

Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex

The Female Brain

The Male Brain

Why Men Want Sex and Women Need Love

What Do Women Want

Why Women Have Sex: Understanding Sexual Motivations from Adventure to Revenge (and Everything in Between)

Sex: The world's favorite pastime fully revealed


Behavioral Psychology and Abstract Economics:

How Pleasure Works

Freakonomics

Quiet: The Power of Introverts In A World That Can't Stop Talking

Thinking Fast And Slow

We Are All Weird


Developmental Psychology:

Nurture Shock

Hauntings: Dispelling The Ghosts That Run Our Lives


Empathy Building:


Half The Sky

The House On Mango Street

Me Before You

The Fault In Our Stars

Also check out James Hollis' Understanding The Psychology of Men lecture if you can find it.



Movies: XXY, Tom Boy, Dogtooth, Shame, Secretary, Nymphomaniac, Juno, Beautiful Creatures, and The Man From Earth.



All of these things are related, but it is up to you to make the connections; pick and choose which material suits your interests best. These are the things that came to mind first, and they have all influenced my perspectives.

One of the chapters in Nurtureshock.

Congrats! Here are my tips . . . (Cut and pasted from another post.)

1. Stay positive - your attitude/outlook can really make a difference :)
   
   
2. Watch (don't read/or read after watching) The Happiest Baby on the Block film (see below.)
   
   
3. I see you are a reader - I felt like after reading the below books and listening to my parent friends' experiences, I was prepared for almost everything pregnancy and the first couple years of parenthood threw at me (I learn best from reading, and this was just my personal method that worked for me in making confident and informed decisions, or figuring out where to go for more research) - I know a lot of people don't learn best this way/get frustrated trying to implement something really specific if it doesn't work for their baby, rather than just taking pieces of everything they've heard/read about and adapting it to work for them.)
   
   These helped me make better decisions because they presented me with many options to try for trial and error, or good jumping off points for further research. I have honestly never had a "what do I do now?!" parenting moment because I have read so much that I have back up plans in my pocket if the first thing I try doesn't work. I have also never had any of the struggles with my son that a lot of people have around sleeping, eating, behavior, etc. and while I know some of that is because we have a healthy kid, I truly believe a lot of it comes from being an informed parent who explores all the options and tries the ones that have the most evidence for working well in combination with what feels right for me and my family.
   
   I tried to just list the neutral/middle of the road books that are fun and/or give enough indepth information on most sides of an issue to be a great jumping off point for exploring particular parenting styles, options, etc.
   
   In no particular order:
   
   

• Bringing up Bebe - Tells the parenting story of an American expat. living in Paris, and how she observed different parenting techniques between American and French families, and how that plays out in children's behavior. It is a fun "experience" story and I think it lends some interesting insights.
  
  
• Pregnancy, childbirth, and the newborn - I think this is the most informative, neutral, pregnancy book out there. It really tries to present all sides of any issues. I can't recommend this book enough. From here, you could explore the options that best fit your needs (e.g. natural birth, etc.)
  
  
• Taking Charge of Your Fertility - Look into this if you find you are having trouble conceiving, or if you want to conceive right away. Really great tips on monitoring the body to pinpoint the most fertile times and stay healthy before becoming pregnant.
  
  
• The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding - This is published by Le Leche League and really has everything you need to know about breastfeeding, pumping, etc. After baby is born, kellymom.com is a good resource for quickly referring to for breastfeeding questions later, but seriously don't skip this book - it is great!
  
  
• Dr. Spock's Baby and Childcare - Really comprehensive and probably the most widely read book about every aspect of child health and development (and also a lot of what to expect as parents.)
  
  
• NurtureShock - by far the most interesting book I've ever read in my life. Basically sums up research on child development to illuminate how many parents and educators ignore research based evidence on what works well for raising children. If you read nothing else in this book, at least read the sleep chapter!
  
  
• What's Going on in There? - This book was written by a neuroscientist after becoming a mom about brain development from pregnancy through about age 5. It has some of the same research as NurtureShock but goes way more in depth. I found it fascinating, but warning, I could see how it could scare some people with how much detail it goes into (like how many people feel that "What to Expect When Expecting" is scary.)
  
  
• Happiest Baby on the Block - There is a book, but really you can/should just watch the DVD. It has 5 very specific techniques for calming a fussy baby. Here are some recent reddit comments about it. Someday I will buy Dr. Karp a drink - love that man!
  
  
• The Wholesome Baby Food Guide - this book is based on a website which has some of the same information, but the book goes way more in depth about how to introduce food, with particular steps, to set baby up for a lifetime of good (non picky) eating habits.
  
  
• A variety of sleep books, so you can decide which method you might be comfortable with (I believe the Baby Whisperer and Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child are pretty middle of the road, but you can look into bedsharing (The Dr. Sear's books) or the other end (Babywise) as discussed in other comments already here, etc. - these last two links I am letting my personal bias show - sorry, but I just think it is good to know all sides of an issue.)
  
  
• Huffington Post Parents section often has "experience" articles, and browsing subs like this can help with that too.
  
  
• A lot of people love the Bill Cosby Fatherhood book too, but my husband and I haven't read it, so I can't say for sure what is in it, but I imagine it is "experiences" based
  
  
• The Wonder Weeks - describes when and how babies reach developmental milestones, what to expect from those, and how to help your baby with them.

"Brain Rules for Babies" by John Medina may be of interest to you. I haven't read "Expecting Better," but based on the blurb it seems the two books have similar goals: providing peer-reviewed information and avoiding the propagation of myths.


At the beginning of my pregnancy, I worried I wasn't doing enough to optimize fetal development. There's so much information to be found on pregnancy and child care, I kept wondering, "Which advice should I follow? What helps and what hinders?" It was overwhelming! I'm a FTM, and I've never been around babies, so I was clueless. The pregnancy chapter in "Brain Rules" really simplified it for me: take care of yourself physically and mentally and let the fetus do it's thing. The book continues to cover relationships, brain development, emotional development, and moral development with similar clarity.


I have a few other books such as "What to Expect the First Year" but I just keep them around for reference, haven't actually read all the way through them. Other books I've considered buying are "Mind in the Making" and "NurtureShock."

I don't have any boy book suggestions, but one book I really enjoyed was The Emotional Life of a Toddler (http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Life-Toddler-Alicia-Lieberman/dp/0028740173) Sorry, can't do fancy pants links.

I also really enjoyed NurtureShock (http://www.amazon.com/NurtureShock-New-Thinking-About-Children/dp/0446504130/ref=sr_1_56?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369239257&sr=1-56&keywords=science+of+child+development)

Neither of these are parenting books, but really helpful in how you think about parenting and your child.

>it's just that pink princesses who need the approval of men and overbearing female family members to have any self-worth...

No kidding!

I do think some of this is developmental (for ex., the chapter in Nurtureshock on race has some really interesting stuff on how social science research shows kids gravitate to very clear-cut 'us vs them' groups at around your daughter's age). I was discussing the 'princess' thing with some friends who have girls older than mine, and they say their twins & their friends all went through the phase for a couple of years before elementary school, then after awhile all decided the princess stuff was awful and switched to black clothing and tomboy activities (also both phases). So there's at least some reason to think that some parts of this will resolve with time as she matures.

No question, though, that the underlying girls vs boys ideology is disturbing. You can't do anything about your co-parent's living situation or family dynamic, but you can promote your own positive view of a 'girl power' agenda that doesn't put down boys. Maybe you could take the 'girl power' thing and run with it in a direction that fits your values? The site "A Mighty Girl" has reviewed & suggested a lot of toys, books, etc., to promote some positive and more empowered ways of being a girl than simply "I love princesses / boys steal girl power." For starters, you could start working some of that stuff into the book/toy collection you have for your daughter.

Check out Nurture Shock, whose first chapter goes into this in quite a bit of detail. More good stuff about raising kids to be found throughout.

NurtureShock is great for the overall picture of raising a kid to adulthood. Pretty scientific and very thoughtful.

NurtureShock covers this well (think Freakonomics or Tipping Point for raising kids). They even tackle the black Santa thing in Chapter Three: Why White Parents Don’t Talk About Race

Most black kids don't even believe in black Santa.

http://www.amazon.com/NurtureShock-New-Thinking-About-Children/dp/0446504130

Could it have been Nurtureshock? It's not exactly a parenting book, but uses scientific data to show how a lot of what we thought about raising kids is wrong (most notably, why we shouldn't praise kids) and it's really good. Definitely a must-read for someone who's looking for data instead of anecdote.

Yep. Racism gets perpetuated by the idea that race is bad to talk about... read Nurture Shock last week, and this was one of the points they reviewed in the study of children and their attitudes.

First, I have to ask, what is the significance of potatoes and oatmeal?

Now for suggestions:
If she has a mac or a light colored laptop you could get her one of these

I don't know what a child life specialist is, but this book was awesome

This book looks cool

A wallet/coin purse with her favorite disney character

'How Not to Achieve Freedom' is an entire book on libertarian infighting by Stef. Just sayin'.

I try to keep libertarian infighting to an minimum that I possibly can although I probably take more potshots than I should (although I try to be fair in the shots that I take).

Divorce rates by faith group according to the Barna report [1]:

All adults 33% 3792

Evangelical Christians: 26%

Non-evangelical born again Christians: 33%
Notional Christians: 33%
Associated with non Christian faith: 38%
Atheist or agnostic: 30%
All born again Christians : 32%
All non born again Christians: 33%

Protestant 34%
Catholic 28%

Upscale 22%
Downscale 39%

White 32% 2641
African-American 36%
Hispanic 31%
Asian 20%

Conservative 28%
Moderate 33%
Liberal 37%

Also

>In addition to finding that four out of every five adults (78%) have been married at least once, the Barna study revealed that an even higher proportion of born again Christians (84%) tie the knot. That eclipses the proportion among people aligned with non-Christian faiths (74%) and among atheists and agnostics (65%).

OK I generally agree with this video, even if I don't entirely agree with the methods.

According to this very weak study from a biased source, families who practice Natural Family Planning have a 5% divorce rate [2], substantially lower than the typical rate even among Conservatives.

If you want to lower your chances of divorce, be an Asian Catholic who is also conservative and doesn't use contraception. Are Asian Catholics who don't use contraception the most influential demographic in America? No not really.

It's funny that Stefan strongly criticizes the demographic with the lowest divorce rate while also saying that libertarians should move towards being the population with a low divorce rate that forms strong families, while simultaneously encouraging people to join the demographic with the lowest marriage rate (by far) with a moderately high divorce rate.

I think that not spanking children is preferable. However, many families that do practice spanking lack the sophistication, IQ, and cultural cachet to otherwise raise their children. It's like commanding innately incapable people of being smart enough to have high paying jobs. "You really should not be dumb, you person who is not capable of being intelligent." It's a nice sentiment but the people who need to hear the message the most aren't going to be the ones capable of acting on it.

Libertarians or anarcho-capitalists don't need to be THE strongest faction in the world to thrive and survive according to sets of rules that make us happy. We just have to be strong ENOUGH. We don't have to be 100% unified on every single issue that's conceivable. We just have to be unified sufficiently to reach a threshold that makes independence feasible. A lot of hopelessness arrives from setting goals that are unrealistic or too high or deferred too far into the future.

You're not going to convince 220m Indonesians to stop spanking their children. It's also not entirely clear to me that spanking has the same effects across all cultures in all contexts. This book, 'Nurtureshock,' sold a lot of copies and raised a substantial debate about it. [3] Science is a complicated back-and-forth of debate and experimentation. It's incredibly hard to divine ironclad moral norms based on isolated studies that make a naive connection between spanking and IQ.

[1]https://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/15-familykids/42-new-marriage-and-divorce-statistics-released#.UgLq8pJJPXU
[2]http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/natural-family-planning-builds-a-culture-of-life/
[3]http://www.amazon.com/NurtureShock-New-Thinking-About-Children/dp/0446504130

While this is completely unrelated to what you asked for, I recommend this book to any logically-minded parents.

The second comment on the page is gold too.

Whether or not you spank your children is not by itself going to determine if they are lazy, selfish, or defiant. Parenting (and children) are a lot more complicated then that. Children do need structure/discipline but there are many valid ways to implement that.

I read a book called Nurture Shock with a summary of research on different parenting issues. If I recall correctly it basically said that spanking/physical punishment is not shown to have long term negative effects in cultures where it is common. In cultures where it is uncommon spanking does have long term negative effects. So if you live in an area where spanking is uncommon don't spank as your child will end up wondering why his parents hit him when his friends parents would never hit his friends and this can cause negative long term effects. If that is normal to the child (everyone in your area uses this form of discipline) they will feel differently and be okay.

The bigger issue to me here though is that your boyfriend is very uncomfortable with it. If you are considering having a child with him it seems like a bad idea for you to use a form of punishment he considers abusive. Also, even more important then punishment is modeling the behavior you want your child to have. Your child is going to learn to do as you do more then you say. So you should be having a child with someone you consider to be a good example of how you would like that child to grow up.

This book is full of some awesome insights into parenting.

The study was done at the University of Texas in 2006. I do not have an internet link but they discuss it and others in Chapter 3 of this book: http://www.amazon.com/NurtureShock-New-Thinking-About-Children/dp/0446504130/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312430754&sr=8-1

The book Nurtureshock (http://www.amazon.com/NurtureShock-New-Thinking-About-Children/dp/0446504130/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324347141&sr=8-1) has a lot of fascinating studies about children and teens (including the one you mentioned about starting school later) that, as the description says, "upends a library's worth of conventional wisdom."

So far my highly recommended ones would be:

NurtureShock

Your Self-Confident Baby

Dear Parent: Caring for Infants With Respect

It's OK Not to Share and Other Renegade Rules for Raising Competent and Compassionate Kids (Currently reading this one now)

I tried reading The Baby Whisperer The Child Whisperer but couldn't get past the second chapter. It reads like an infomercial for the book and it was just awful.

Check out this book, if interested.

http://www.amazon.com/NurtureShock-New-Thinking-About-Children/dp/0446504130