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Reddit mentions of The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11
Sentiment score: 7
Reddit mentions: 45
We found 45 Reddit mentions of The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11. Here are the top ones.
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> Why the hell did the FBI let them off?
TL;dr: on what charges? Being an asshole and asking technical questions on a plane is not a crime unless it's post 9/11 and you are foreign. Back then, you'd need something to charge those guys with. They really didn't do anything but freak out some people. No weapons. No drugs. No assault. No hijacking. What do you charge them with that doesn't get them released within 48 hours anyway? They did exactly what was normal at the time. Then the interview was probably filed away somewhere, not to be seen til after 9/11 when we would have realized how important that event probably was. The rest of this post deals with why while proper procedure was likely followed, there was still a failure on the part of our intelligence community and the ways it functioned at the time.
Not you sir, but this whole thread quickly devolved to political blaming for the sake of political blaming. "your guy did it no it was your guy' your team my team bleh it's all i see on reddit these days. GO TEAM GO <derp./ Not you sir, but from here down it turned into a blame politicians thread and not a conversation about anything contained in the article. Suddenly the primarily problem here has devolved to clinton or bush instead of terrorists.
Gonna go ahead and leave this here:
The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11
because while I haven't seen the History Channel doc, I know the history channel has been shit for a decade now (longer than that if I'm honest) so feel like I would be remiss if I didn't suggest an actual source of info for those curious about the failures leading up to 9/11. My understanding is most people attribute the failure to a lack of communication between various agencies and police departments. Oh, and also the fault of <insert name of former president that I hate most here>, amirite?
The only thing I can add (besides a decent source) to the conversation being had here is this -
I fucking hate reddit these past few years.
Unfortunately, the most efficient way to become knowledgable about the Middle East is to read. A lot. The Middle East is a far more complex place than most people imagine and understanding the region requires a great deal of knowledge. I have been studying the Middle East for nearly a decade and I still feel like there is so much that I do not know. I would start by reading reputable news sources every day. Places like The Economist, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, BBC, Financial Times, are the Los Angeles Times are good English language news sources that you should look at. Additionally, I have written up a suggested reading list for learning about the Middle East, though it is a bit more security-related since that's my area of expertise. I hope it helps. And feel free to ask any questions if you have them.
Books - General History of the Middle East
Books - Middle East Military History
Books - Middle East Terrorism and Substate Violence
Books - U.S. Foreign Policy in the Middle East
Think Tanks
Below is a list of several different think tanks, which frequently publish everything from extension research and analysis to quick and succinct blog posts about the issues in the Middle East. Some of these think tanks specifically focus on the Middle East, while for others it is only one area of their research.
Journals, Blogs, Podcasts, and other Publications
> We propped up Osama Bin Laden up until he got smart and turned on us.
Please read a book about this, I beseech you. Nothing is worse than internet pop history/international relations. I'd suggest these:
https://www.amazon.com/Bin-Ladens-Arabian-American-Century/dp/0143114816
https://www.amazon.com/Osama-bin-Laden-Know-History/dp/0743278917/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+bin+laden+i+know&amp;qid=1556584133&amp;s=books&amp;sr=1-1-catcorr
https://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/1400030846
Bin Laden wasn't supported by the US, not because the US is a good guy (it's not, no country is despite redditors wishing it wasn't so), but because they just didn't care about him and he was already rich. There were a few hundred Afghan Arabs as opposed to tens of thousands of mujahideen. The CIA supported the latter, they just didn't give a shit about the former.
its shocking to me half a decade later people still have no understanding of why 9/11 and the earlier al quaeda attacks on the us happened considering it triggered a decade plus long "war on terror" that included the invasion of iraq in 2003 that we are still fighting. and im talking about you.
the original goal of al quaeda was to overthrow the egyptian and saudi arabian governments because they werent islamic enough. they turned their focus on the west after saddam invaded kuwait and instead of turning to an army of mujahadeen to kick him out the house of said turned to bush sr. al quaeda came to the conclusion they could never reach their goals of a true islamic state in the middle east as long as the us was so heavily involved - so they began provoking us to get us into an Afghanistan type situation where they successfully bled the soviets until they left. so far republicans in particular have been happy to oblige unfortunately and here we are today. i suggest you read the following if you care about actually understanding what is going on:
https://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/1400030846
it isnt ironic or surprising wahabi fanatics would attack saudi arabia. it completely aligns with their stated goals pre 9/11
Do you even read your "sources"?
CIA AND FBI NOT WORKING TOGETHER. CONSPIRACY!
THE US GOVERNMENT USES THINK TANKS THAT HAVE FORMER POLITICANS AND EX-MILITARY! THE CABAL GOES DEEPER THAN WE THOUGHT!
No, organizations "defending their turf" is one of the biggest management roadblocks inside and outside the government. Even units inside the CIA and FBI often don't work together. It's human nature.
And of course the government is going to use foreign policy think tanks staffed by former goverment and private foreign policy experts. (And non experts, they can certainly be incompetent). I mean duh.
I know I don't have the time to waste on reading this inane BS. All it is is a bunch of (often dubious) correlations that are supposed to advance an agenda. I'll stick with reading actual sources like The Looming Tower or Ghost Wars
The Looming Tower: Al Queda and the Road to 9/11
Not looking up the basic facts makes you look ignorant. It was orchestrated by Ramzi Yousef and financed by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, you know, the guy behind the 9/11.
He didn't even try to deny it, in fact he was proud of it, saying, in OPEN court in Manhattan (not in GITMO mind you), for everyone to see:
"Yes, I am a terrorist, and proud of it as long as it is against the U.S. government and against Israel, because you are more than terrorists; you are the one who invented terrorism and using it every day. You are butchers, liars and hypocrites."
And later he even cited Hiroshima and Nagasaki as reasons behind the attack:
"We declare our responsibility for the explosion on the mentioned building. This action was done in response for the American political, economical, and military support to Israel, the state of terrorism, and to the rest of the dictator countries in the region." He later stated that he had hoped to kill 250,000 Americans to show them the exact pain they had caused to the Japanese in the Atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki."
Jesus.. just read into it even a little bit before you start throwing this conspiracy nonsense around. Yousef copped to it. Kalid Sheikh Mohammed copped to it. There's no fucking conpspiracy.
If you really want to read in depth about the lead up from the first Word Trade Center attack to 9/11 (which I doubt you actually do), read The Looming Tower by New Yorker correspondent Lawrence Wright. It's exhaustively researched and has excellent footnotes. Seriously, try looking into it before swallowing that conspiracy crap whole.
I highly suggest everyone here read the Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright. It's a great piece of investigative journalism. He tracks the origins and life of al-Qaeda and its founders: Osama bin Laden and Anwar al-Zawahiri. It's a great piece of investigative journalism and should be part of the required texts in modern PoliSci classes. The major indictment of this book is that 9/11 was preventable and that there was some inkling of an attack (though no one thought it would be this massive) but was stymied by inter-departmental rivalries between CIA and FBI.
I decided to skip through the pentagon papers in my free time. Let that sink in for a moment...... I'm spending my free time away from studying history to study history.
Intramural Frisbee starts next week. Just in the past 3 months nearly all of my friends have broken some part of their lower body. This curse is too real for me.
Still having a drawn out passive aggressive argument about the definition of Anarchism. Its like we are playing one of those long games of chess that takes weeks to finish. He obviously isn't that involved else he would pull up the Wikipedia page and see that I'm right.
I'm having a hard time keeping presentism out of my studies as we start to pass over Greece's history till they get rekt by the Macedons. The whole Democracy^TM thing seems to start there, as does something like nationalism or even racial/ethnic supremacy. I keep drawing comparisons to America and it makes it hard to isolate myself from it. Anyone else get this?
Also halfway through The Looming Tower which I strongly suggest to anyone interested in understanding the conflict in the middle east.
http://www.amazon.com/Taliban-Militant-Fundamentalism-Central-Edition/dp/0300163681/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1396212194&amp;sr=8-1
I haven't read it, but I trust the author, because I've read his more recent books.
It focuses more on Al-Qaeda, but Lawrence Wright's 'The Looming Tower', is usually the first book I suggest to people looking to learn more about the broader subject. My Trip to Al-Qaeda is a documentary that covers a little bit about the book, which I highly suggest reading.
Other authors I read about the Middle East:
Robert Fisk
Ahmed Rashid
Rashid Khalidi
Steve Coll
George Packer
Peter Bergen
Thomas Ricks
Dexter Filkins
Jeremy Scahill
For more information, I recommend you read
[Force and Fanaticism: Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia and Beyond]
(https://www.amazon.com/Force-Fanaticism-Wahhabism-Arabia-Beyond/dp/1849044643)
Describes the history of Wahhabism and its effects. Author spent time in Saudi Arabia.
[The ISIS Apocalypse: The History, Strategy, and Doomsday Vision of the Islamic State] (https://www.amazon.com/ISIS-Apocalypse-History-Strategy-Doomsday/dp/1250112648/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1496875330&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=The+ISIS+Apocalypse)
Self explanatory.
[Kingdom of the Unjust: Behind the U.S.-Saudi Connection] (https://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Unjust-Behind-U-S-Saudi-Connection/dp/1944869026/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1496875675&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=kingdom+of+the+unjust+behind+the+u.s.-saudi+connection)
Easy to read description of Saudi crimes.
[The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11] (https://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/1400030846/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1496875754&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=Looming+Tower)
Excellent narrative history of Al Qaeda. Highly recommended.
[My Year Inside Radical Islam: A Memoir] (https://www.amazon.com/My-Year-Inside-Radical-Islam/dp/1585426113/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1496875857&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=My+Year+inside+Radical+Islam)
Not a wide-sweeping narrative but a personal story of someone who worked for a Saudi-funded charity and slowly adapted their beliefs.
[On Saudi Arabia: Its People, Past, Religion, Fault Lines -- and Future]
(https://www.amazon.com/Saudi-Arabia-People-Religion-Lines/dp/0307473287/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1496875930&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=On+Saudi+Arabia)
Written by a reporter who spent years in Saudi Arabia, gives a description of Saudi society.
[The Siege of Mecca: The 1979 Uprising at Islam's Holiest Shrine] (https://www.amazon.com/Siege-Mecca-Uprising-Islams-Holiest/dp/0307277739/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1496876042&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=The+Siege+of+Mecca)
A great history of an almost unknown terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia. Goes into the relationship between the Saudi royal family and Wahhabi religious establishment.
[Knowing the Enemy: Jihadist Ideology and the War on Terror]
(https://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Enemy-Jihadist-Ideology-Terror/dp/0300122578/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1496876149&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=Knowing+the+Enemy)
Really good explanation of Salafi-Jihadism.
Edit: Added links and made it look nicer. If you want more, just ask. If anyone has any other recommendations, I would like to know. :)
If you're interested in the subject matter you should take a look at Ghost Wars by Steve Coll, which is a nonfiction book about Afghanistan from the beginning of the Soviet invasion through to September 10, 2001 or The Looming Tower by Laurence Wright which is the history of al-Qaeda, bin Laden, and radical Islam in the latter half of the 20th century. Both are fascinating books and go a long way to dispel a lot of the misinformation and misunderstandings that surround the issue.
Not the first time. The CIA did the same thing with Khalid_El-Masri.
I was originally for the war in Afghanistan to go after al Qaeda. But when the U.S. is rendering the wrong people, torturing them and then refusing to release them even when they know they were innocent, well, that's where shit gets really bad and beyond criminal.
Yet no one has ever answered to or been punished for these crimes.
What's worse, as told in, among other sources, Lawrence Wright's book, Ali Soufan's book, Joby Warrick's book and the Secrecy Kills audio documentary 'Who is Richard Blee,' many of these people responsible were also responsible for the intelligence failures leading up to 9/11.
I didn't read Ghost Wars yet despite it being downloaded on my kindle for like three months. But I did read The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright, which is also a great read.
Currently: The Twilight War: The Secret History of America's Thirty-Year Conflict with Iran
After this I will probably read
The Bear Went Over the Mountain: Soviet Combat Tactics in Afghanistan
On War
Black Flags: The Rise of ISIS
The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11
Illusions of Victory: The Anbar Awakening and the Rise of the Islamic State
On Grand Strategy
A fellow on the combined defense discord layed out his recommendations for books on nukes, so I'll list them here.
On Thermonuclear War By Herman Kahn
On Limited Nuclear War in the 21st Century by Jeffrey Larsen and Kerry Kartchner
The Evolution of Nuclear Strategy, Third Edition by Lawrence Freedman
Russian Strategic Nuclear Forces by Pavel Podvig
Nuclear Statecraft: History and Strategy in America's Atomic Age by Francis J. Gavin
Eating Grass: The Making of the Pakistani Bomb by Feroz Khan
Prevention, Pre-emption and the Nuclear Option: From Bush to Obama by Aiden Warren
Nuclear Deterrence in the 21st Century: Lessons from the Cold War for a New Era of Strategic Piracy by Thérèse Delpech
Analyzing Strategic Nuclear Policy by Charles L. Glaser
Making of the Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes
Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb by Richard Rhodes
Nuclear Strategy in the Modern Era: Regional Powers and International Conflict by Vipin Narang
Building the H Bomb: A Personal History By Kenneth W Ford
The Logic of American Nuclear Strategy by Matthew Kroenig
Paper Tigers: china's Nuclear Posture by Jeffery Lewis
Arms and Influence by Thomas Schelling
Well the main fuck up of america is that they had a legislation that the CIA wrongly interpreted. Basically they thought they could be prosecuted if they divulged intel among themselves so a lot of CIA agents didn't say anything about the plot for 9/11 even if they knew years before it happened. When an FBI agent in yemen that exhausted himself trying to figure out where Bin Laden would strike found out about this after 9/11 he almost threw up out of disgust.
Source : this book : https://www.amazon.fr/Looming-Tower-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/1400030846
Her blogging frequency is spotty, but I've learned a ton from Leah Farrall's analysis - she's at allthingscounterterrorism.com and @allthingsct. She's Australia-focused, since that's where she is, but she's done some great writing on al-Qa'ida.
A different kind of source, broadly national security focused so only sometimes about terrorism, but very sharply analytical is John McCreary's Nightwatch newsletter, which you can subscribe to. He was a DIA analyst for decades.
If you want a great, very readable history of al-Qa'ida specifically, there's nothing better than Lawrence Wright's The Looming Tower.
Edit: I also want to recommend Thomas Hegghammer.
Non-mobile: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1400030846/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/183-0250526-6017932
^That's ^why ^I'm ^here, ^I ^don't ^judge ^you. ^PM ^/u/xl0 ^if ^I'm ^causing ^any ^trouble. ^WUT?
Lawrence Wright in his book The Looming Tower attributes the emergence of Al Qaeda to the permanence of US troops in Saudi Arabia after the Gulf war.
Firstly, it's not accurate nor sagely to state that "every book is biased". Secondly, make sure you're using the word bias correctly. A bias, in printed media, would fail to include, ignore, diminish, and/or fail to find merit in the opposed subject matter - much more sever, in my opinion, than presenting the information with a certain perspective in mind.
That said, it's going to be difficult to find books about the Syrian War because it's still ongoing. You're basically asking for books that have either been subjected to scholarly review and the historical method, or data put out by NGOs. None of that really exists yet. But, I'd suggest this book as a start, gives a good history of wahabism and salafism, the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, the bin Laden family and it's ties to the KSA, and provides a pretty good framework for the various religious tensions and floes in the Middle East and North Africa. There are more scholarly books on the subject but I enjoyed his writing style and the facts are all there.
The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright
Other than that, this is probably the most "scholarly" publication on the Syrian Civil War so far, to my knowledge.
Syrian Conflagration: The Syrian Civil War, 2011-2013
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/documents/evidence-of-financial-links-between-saudi-royal-family-and-al-qaeda
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/saudi-embassy-funded-911-dry-run-report-170909223532351.html
https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/18/what-we-know-about-saudi-arabias-role-in-911/
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/11/trump-russia-bush-saudi-arabia
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/saudi-arabia-9-11-victims-lawsuit-us-court-allowed-twin-towers-terror-attack-september-a8279236.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-saudi-sept11/saudi-arabia-must-face-u-s-lawsuits-over-sept-11-attacks-idUSKBN1H43A1
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2016/09/29/saudi-arabia-and-terrorism-today/
https://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-arabia-appeared-to-threaten-canada-with-a-911-style-attack-2018-8
https://www.newsweek.com/cia-and-saudi-arabia-conspired-keep-911-details-secret-new-book-says-1091935
This book won a Pulitzer prize
Another book worth reading
No, I just actually read verifiable sources about topics I’m interested in rather than relying on conjecture and conspiracy theories. Here’s somewhere to start if you’re actually interested.
https://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/1400030846
Going Clear and The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright.
Lawrence Wright's Pulitzer-price-winning The Looming Tower has a bunch of detail about previous attempts on Bin Laden, such as when he was holed up in Tora Bora. Wonderful book altogether, highly recommended.
It's clear you've ignored everything I've said because you keep ignoring the most important thing I've pointed out. You haven't provided any evidence. Here, I'll even quote myself to show this:
>And again, just so you're not confused, pointing out links and patterns is not evidence to prove an accusation. It only proves you've shown links and patterns. Without evidence it is meaningless.
So you haven't provided anything. And until you do I or anyone else don't have to play your Argument from Ignorance game. It's that simple. You may be comfortable in forming your beliefs on bad logic but many people aren't.
You said it took you months to reach your conclusions. Maybe it's time to start again but this time base it all on the evidence and not other people's claims. After all, you don't want to be a sheeple that just believes what people tell them do you? Here's a good book to start with:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1400030846
And if that's too much, at least go to the library and check out the sources the book uses.
Also, why fuck the police? You use the same logical fallacies the bad ones use when they make false accusations. You're like kindred spirits.
I'll watch this when I have the time, but The Looming Tower explains who the 911 terrorists were.
The Looming Tower: Al Qaeda and the Road to 9/11 by Lawrence Wright is absolutely a great read. Gives a lot of background, history, and insight into the major players that led to the ideology of Al Qaeda and the perpetrators of the act.
The Siege of Mecca: The 1979 Uprising at Islam's Holiest Shrine by Yaroslav Trofimov
I just started this one and it's very interesting. Almost reads like a thriller. This book more or less covers a major incident that isn't well know, but helped to lead to the modern Islamic terrorism we now have.
The NSA had substantial transcripts of telephone conversations between known Al Qaeda members, some of whom turned out to be hijackers. They refused to share the transcripts with the FBI. The FBI actually started building cellular listening posts in Africa and Asia to do there own listening, since the NSA was so uncooperative. Then the NSA agreed to show them a summary of the transcripts.
Meanwhile the CIA knew that two known Al Qaeda members had US visas and did not tell the FBI or State Department. And this was after the African embassy and USS Cole bombings. The hijackers entered the US and disappeared.
Source: The Looming Tower
This NOVA page also touches on it:
> NARRATOR: But was NSA doing its job before the 9/11 attacks? It's a question that has never been thoroughly investigated.
> MICHAEL SCHEUER (Former Central Intelligence Agency Analyst): None of this information that we're speaking about this evening is in the 9/11 Commission Report. They simply ignored all of it.
> NARRATOR: But author James Bamford has investigated and come up with a chilling tale of terrorists, living in San Diego, communicating with bin Laden's operations center in Yemen, moving freely about, and all the while, NSA is listening in.
To give up your anonymity so these guys can monitor everyone and then consistently fail to stop the main targets is crazy. They can still target them without collecting American's communications.
I'll add a few more that don't deal directly with overall ME history:
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I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'political books' but I'm going to assume that you're looking for books that help explain the current political situation and current events. Maybe I'm wrong.
Fiasco and the follow up by Thomas Ricks The Gamble. These are fantastic books that put the Iraq war in perspective.
Looming Tower. A great book about the lead-up to 9/11.
For stuff about torture and Bush's policies therein I'd start with Dark Side but Torture Team is better, just more legalistic and possibly drier.
For understanding the politics right now I think it's really good to know about authoritarianism. It's completely changed how I've viewed politics. This is a new book on the subject that I have on my shelf but haven't gotten around to reading.
If this is the type of stuff you're looking for, I'm happy to provide other recommendations, but I think that's a good place to start.
EDIT: formatting
> How can you almost guarantee that? Do you have evidence to support the assertion?
I think its worth noting that in [The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11] (https://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/1400030846/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1465999587&amp;sr=8-1-fkmr1&amp;keywords=9%2F11+the+hunt+for+al+qaeda) it is demonstrated how all of Al Qaeda and thus arguably modern Islamic extremism stems from prison round ups and treatment in such prisons. This doesn't justify /u/mentaljewelry 's statement that the US was involved in his radicalization but supports that such detainment generally did.
The Looming Tower
It may be too focused on the CIA & FBI and global terrorism, but if Ghost Wars is your cup of tea, this is a pretty good one as well.
If you're curious about the rise radical Islam culminating in 9/11 you should read The Looming Tower
The Looming Tower
The Looming Tower and The Atlas of Middle Earth
They didn't "come to America," but yes of course the conflict between the United States and the Islamic world started before the events you outlined. I'll outline the relevant points as summarily as I can. For brevity, I will include history only related to the United States and not broader Western civilization. The case of the United States is salient and representative.
History of Islam: Muhammad to 1776
Muhammad first began teaching among Pagan Arabs who were more or less friendly until he began to teach that there is only one God and all other religions' followers shall burn in hell. When they began to threaten him and his people, he fled to Mecca and Medina, subsequently taking over the western half of Saudi Arabia along with the eastern tip (Oman). Almost all secular scholars of the Qur'an agree that it is as much a political guidebook (how to run a society) as a religious text (how to be a good person). Upon his death in 632, his followers interpreted the book as they did, and a system of Caliphates began to rule the Islamic world. By 661, all of what we call the Middle East and northeastern Africa was under the Caliphate. By the 8th century, the Caliphate had extended to include land from Spain to Pakistan. This was unsustainable militarily (given few people liked being ruled under Islamic law), so it was pulled back. The Turkish peoples were to become the new military force of the Caliphate, and took Constantinople just before Columbus "found" the "New World." When the United States declared independence, Abdul Hamid I was sultan, with even Baghdad under his rule (that article makes him sound friendlier than he actually was -- he was compelled to sign treaties after military defeats).
Barbary Slaves and Pirating
Before the United States had first elected Washington as President, the Congress found itself at odds with the Caliphate controlled lands. At this time, the Muslim world was taking Europeans and Americans as slaves, estimates are that as many as 1.25 million slaves were taken from the Western world (source: Robert Davis). John Adams, America's London ambassador, was sent to the Tripoli ambassador to discuss the matter, and was met with a demand of money for various levels of peace. Terms were set for the release of slaves, short term peace, and even a price for long term peace. The United States argued that it was a new nation. If their military had previously quarreled with Europe, that was of no concern to the United States. Could not peace with a new nation be had?
When Jefferson took the Presidency in 1801, he was immediately met with a demand of $4,000,000 (adjusted for inflation but not %GDP or federal budget) to be paid to the Muslim lands. Jefferson demanded repeatedly to know by what right these demands were made. By what right did they capture Americans as slaves, seize her ships, take her property, and demand payment in exchange?
> The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners.
Thomas Jefferson to Congress and the State Department
Barbary Wars to Usama bin Laden
President Jefferson found himself in the fortunate position of having a capable Navy that he, ironically enough, had fought against funding before being elected. With it, he began the first conflict between the United States and the Caliphate. The second line of the Marine Anthem (To the shores of Tripoli) celebrates the result even today. Congress authorized Jefferson to use the full might of the United States Navy to suppress the military aggression, with permission to seize and destroy property as the Navy was able. The language was quite strong and general.
The modern Islamic revival that began in the 1970s has seen a large surge in the total Muslim population, which we must admit is in some sense responsible for the recent surge of the lower jihad as well (this being the military jihad as opposed to the higher jihad meaning an inner struggle). Al Qaeda's number one demand was restoration of the Caliphate. The crime for which America has been subject to the violence from the radical Islamists was committed after approval by the Saudi royal family to use American troops to free Kuwait from Iraq rather than using their own, limited resources and relying heavily on the local mujahidin. In other words, Usama bin Laden was angry with America because he thought that local insurgents could fight Saddam the same way they had in Afghanistan against the Soviets rather than relying on smart bombs to do the same. (He forgot, or perhaps never knew, that Afghanistan was liberated only through American assistance. People who assert the unsophisticated non-distinction between Al Qaeda and the Taliban forget this. America gave aid to the Taliban, not The Base.)
Also central to crimes committed by the United States in Bin Laden's mind was our admission that we had begun to support the right of East Timor to self determination of government. Here is one of his first speeches after the 2001 attacks.. Ctrl+f "east timor" to see that his complaint is that the Caliphate's maximum extent is no longer in effect, with the world recognizing that the military devastation committed by Indonesia was invalid.
Specific Points: Iran in WWII, The Taliban, Gulf War vs. bin Laden, and Diplomacy
So, yes, the Barbary wars happened before the Iranian coup. Keep in mind also that 1953 is also after 1945 when Nazi Germany surrendered. At that time, Iran was already under the full control of Britain and Russia (mostly the British), essentially a colony like India was. This invasion was necessary because Reza Shah was attempting to play neutral while supplying the Nazi war machine with crude oil necessary for its logistical world domination. "Iran" in Persian means "The Land of the Aryans," which Persia abruptly changed its name to in 1935, just as it was becoming friendly toward the Germans. After the war was over, Britain had a number of privately owned fields, purchased legally from the owners of the land. When Iran elected Mosaddegh to nationalize the oilfields, they did so illegally. Their country or not, the heart of libertarianism is the right to free exchange and free markets. Unless you agree that the United States can simply seize the property of any foreign corporation who operates in any way through the United States, you cannot support the right of anyone, anywhere to loot by law. The course of action taken by the West was perhaps morally wrong. But it was in response to a moral wrong, not the initiation of one. I find that very few internet historians know the history of Iran before 1953. This has always seemed odd to me -- where are you all getting your similarly edited information?
The military bases in Islamic lands were widely supported at the time by both governments and peoples. They still celebrate it as a national day of pride. Again, bin Laden considers this the great evil of America because he wanted the local mujahidin to fight Saddam rather than bringing in any Western aid. You may freely be against the Gulf War, but you cannot rationalize that the intervention was innately immoral since the United States determined that losing control of the Kuwait and Saudi oilfields would have been damaging to her interests. In other words, the United States did not initiate force but responded to the initiation of force upon a friend.
The United States used the Taliban to fight the Soviet Empire. I fail to see this as a moral evil.
The United States necessarily has diplomatic relations with all countries who are willing, including bad guys. Egyptians and Tunisians far and away have more warm feelings for the United States than ill-feelings. Only with sources such as Russia Today can you attempt to support the notion that we stood between these leaders and their people. The West was crucial to their overthrow, including freezing of their foreign assets.
Recommended Reading
Islamic Radicalism and Global Jihad History of radical Islam and current resurgence. Takes a look at the old scholars and new.
The Looming Tower Everything leading up to 9/11
Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters Details the Barbary coast slave trade
The Trial of Henry Kissinger Outlines US war crimes
Qur'an My English translation.
Instructions for American Servicemen in Iran During World War II Self explanatory.
The Forever War Solidly good book.
The Rape of Kuwait Iraq war crimes in Kuwait
Edits
No it wasn't.
al-Qaeda associates had already detonated bombs at the World Trade Center in 1993, more bombs at American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, and killed American sailors near Yemen on the USS Cole in 2000. In 1999, Time Magazine got an interview with bin Laden where he says "God knows we have been pleased at the killing of American soldiers." The 2001 hijackings were perpetrated by a team of 19 al-Qaeda operatives. There's a mountain of evidence for this:
https://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/1400030846
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_cell
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/bin-laden-claims-responsibility-for-9-11-1.513654
I've got two book recommendations -
Book: Warriors of God
Author: Nicholas Blanford
Significance: Blanford, a journalist who spent many years as a correspondent in Lebanon, provides a detailed and readable account of Hezbollah's history, structure, and strategy.
Book: The Looming Tower
Author: Lawrence Wright
Significance: The Looming Tower provides an excellent and comprehensive history of Salafi Jihadism and how it relates to Al-Qaeda's development.
> I don't know how Osama bin Laden went from looking like a sitcom character to being the most wanted man in the world, but it happened.
If you want to know why, I highly recommend the book The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11 .
Osama bin Laden was not acting at the direction of the Saudi government. I believe O. B. L. had been disowned by his own family, the Saudi royal family and had had his Saudi citizenship revoked.
The Road to 9/11: A Brief History of Conflict in the Middle East
Meeting Osama Bin Laden
House of Bush, House of Saud
The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11
The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money & Power
Right. While I go watch the umpteenth YouTube video about the “truth,” I’d suggest you pick up this Pulitzer Prize-winning book about Al Qaeda.
http://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/1400030846
Here are some links for the product in the above comment for different countries:
Amazon Smile Link: The Looming Tower
|Country|Link|Charity Links|
|:-----------|:------------|:------------|
|USA|smile.amazon.com|EFF|
|UK|www.amazon.co.uk|Macmillan|
|Spain|www.amazon.es||
|France|www.amazon.fr||
|Germany|www.amazon.de||
|Japan|www.amazon.co.jp||
|Canada|www.amazon.ca||
|Italy|www.amazon.it||
|India|www.amazon.in||
|China|www.amazon.cn||
To help add charity links, please have a look at this thread.
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As far as you saying only "idiots" thought Los Angeles would be next, you obviously don't know what you are talking about. Los Angeles was almost first, according to Richard Wright's amazing 2006 book The Looming Tower, Shiek Mohammed wanted to attack U.S. Bank tower in L.A. but Bin Laden overruled it because they didn't have enough time to prepare. This was also echoed in Eric Lichtblau's much sited 2003 NY Times article. And Ahmed Ressam was captured in 1999 trying to cross the border from the west coast of Canada into the United states with bomb materials in a plot to attack LAX. Yes Los Angeles was a legitimate target, and we probably don't even know the half of it as to how close it came to being attacked.
Edit: added links so you can become informed
Oh good, you're more of an expert than I am. I have a few questions. Did Al-Queda exist at the time of the Russia-afghanistan war? Now I've heard of this Osama Bin Laden character, he never received US aid right? I've got a copy of The Looming Tower in my lap right now, but it's so complex and over my head, full of big words.