(Part 2) Reddit mentions: The best assyria, babylonia & sumer history books

Well, let's take the story of Noah's Ark for instance.

We know from clay tablets and their fragments of similar flood myths that were common in Mesopotamia. There are stories like one discovered from a single fragment (that was found and translated by a man named Arno Poebel) of Ziusudra, a Sumerian flood myth that has been dated to the 17th century BC. Then you have Babylonian and Assyrian flood myths, like the Atrahasis and Unatpishtim stories whose copies have been dated to the 18th century BC.

These flood myths have a very similar structure than can be boiled down to:

• A description of the creation of the world: man, plants, animals, cities, then the establishment of kings in their respective cities.
  
• Then, an anti-creation is planned by the Gods
  
• A small enclave of Gods (or a single God) tell the hero to construct a boat, many stories have this hero be a prince or king of Shruppak.
  
• The flood arrives and lasts for seven days and seven nights.
  
• The flood ends, the hero makes sure the coast is clear
  
• The hero prostrates before the Gods and offers sacrifices
  
• The Gods reward the hero's actions of saving the seed of man and life by granting him immortality.
  
  I think it might be of worth to note that the Epic of Gilgamesh itself also has a flood myth, where Unatpishtim recounts the flood myth to Gilgamesh, who himself searches for eternal life.
  
  Libraries like the ones maintained by Ashurbanipal (an Assyrian king) helped these stories survive.
  
  I highly recommend this book: [The Babylonian Genesis by Alexander Heidel.] (http://www.amazon.com/The-Babylonian-Genesis-Story-Creation/dp/0226323994)
  
  PS- There is some difficulty in fully translating the stories due to many tablets being fragmented or just plain missing, resulting several published translations with a case of the lacunae.

Since we've been waiting for nearly a day for answers in this thread (which is about some of my favorite topics to study), I'm going to list some factors I've read about. I know the mods are strict here, but I'll cite sources for every one of these factors, which I hope will count for something.

• Mesopotamia was much more geographically diverse. When we talk about "ancient Egypt," in terms of geography, we're really just talking about that narrow strip of arable land on the banks of the Nile. The vast majority of Egypt's population seem to have made their living by farming and fishing along that narrow strip, from prehistoric times all the way to the Roman period (and, to some extent, even into the present day). All along that strip of land, yearly floods and other seasonal factors exhibited similar patterns, making it relatively easy to plan harvests, centralize stockpiles and organize distributions of food and other resources all along the Nile. In fact, even nearby cultures - like the Kerma Culture and the Kingdom of Kush - which were genetically, linguistically and (to some extent) religiously distinct from Egypt, also made their livings from the Nile, which may be one reason why Egypt was able to conquer and control these kingdoms at various points in its history. Mesopotamia, on the other hand, was a forested plain bordered by swamps in the south, mountains to the north and east, and deserts to the west. From prehistoric times onward, this geographic diversity seems to have brought people with widely divergent cultures, beliefs and ways of life into conflict over the same pieces of land, where much of the agriculture was achieved by damming and building aqueducts from certain points on the Tigris and Euphrates. While one city reaped a bountiful harvest, a city just up the river might be starving - because when one city enjoyed a plentiful water supply, it was probably at the expense of a city downriver. In fact, the first recorded war in history was fought between the city-states of Lagash and Umma, over just such a water supply.
  
  
• Egypt was unified much earlier. While there's some evidence that Egyptian cities each worshiped their own gods during the prehistoric and proto-historic periods, many processes of linguistic and cultural unification seem to have taken place much earlier than in Mesopotamia - probably sometime between 6,000 and 3,000 BCE. In other words, Egypt most likely did go through an extensive period of immigration, city-state rules, warfare and unification - we just know very little about this process because most of it occurred before the invention of writing. All the large-scale cross-cultural migrations and wars were most likely wrapped up by the time of the pharaoh Menes (possibly the same person as Narmer) around 3,000 BCE. Mesopotamia, on the other hand, was still receiving massive immigrations of foreign peoples as late as the 500s BCE, and even later. This region was arguably truly unified for the first time under the Neo-Assyrian Empire throughout the 800s BCE, and was brought under more scrupulous (and less harsh) administrative control by the Achaemenid Persian Empire from the 500s to 300s BCE. So in that sense, Mesopotamia and Egypt didn't "start at similar times" - Egypt's processes of immigration and unification began much earlier, and were largely completed by the time Mesopotamian city-states really started waging war - and the new invention of writing was able to document those processes.
  
  
  
• Mesopotamia was more culturally and politically diverse. Because of these ongoing waves of immigration, there was a lot of trade, warfare, and cultural mingling going on from very early periods in Mesopotamia - and each group seems to have held onto certain cultural elements (languages, clothing and grooming styles) well into the historical period. Although groups like the Sumerians and Akkadians lived in the same cities and intermarried, they were each proud of their distinct languages and styles of dress. Meanwhile, other groups like the Elamites (based in what's now Iran, though not an Indo-Iranian people), the Kassites, the Hittites, the Assyrians, and many others, swept in from the geographical fringes at various times, sometimes ruling for a few hundred years; sometimes conquering, falling, and reconquering across thousands of years. Even the famous Babylonian king Hammurabi was the descendant of a foreign Amorite conqueror. While Egypt certainly fought with the peoples on its borders - most notably the Libyans (Libu), the Kushites, the Hittites and the Sea Peoples - and these peoples sometimes conquered and ruled Egypt (the 25th dynasty of Nubian Kushite pharaohs; the 23rd dynasty of Libyan Meshwesh pharaohs, and of course the Macedonian Greek Ptolemaic dynasty), Egyptian culture seems to have conquered these peoples as much as they conquered Egypt: the invaders seem to have adopted Egyptian fashions and religion, and followed the basic protocols of pharaonic rule. Many of them even seem to have adopted the Egyptian language - except for the Ptolemaic rulers, who (with the exception of Cleopatra) insisted on speaking only Greek at court.
  
  As with many distinctions in history, these aren't cut-and-dried. Egypt actually did exhibit quite a lot of cultural, political and religious variation throughout the Old, Middle and New Kingdoms; large swathes of Mesopotamia were unified under single rulers (Sargon of Akkad, Ur-Nammu and Hammurabi, for example) for a century or two, here and there; and remarkably diverse groups of people (Sumerians, Akkadians, Amorites and many others) seem to have lived in relative peace in many Mesopotamian cities.
  
  But the short answer to your question, based on sources I've read, is that the factors above are some of the most commonly cited reasons why Mesopotamia is perceived as more politically unstable than Egypt.
  
  Sources:
  
  
• Cultural Atlas of Mesopotamia and the Ancient Near East by Michael Roaf
  
• Ancient Mesopotamia: The Sumerians, Babylonians, and Assyrians by Virginia Schomp
  
• The Sumerians: Their History, Culture, and Character by Samuel Noah Kramer
  
• Babylon: Mesopotamia and the Birth of Civilization by Paul Kriwaczek
  
• The Archaeology of Mesopotamia: From the Old Stone Age to the Persian Conquest by Seton Lloyd
  
• Red Land, Black Land: Daily Life in Ancient Egypt by Barbara Mertz

Unfortunately, there are some who are better suited to recommend some of the ancient works that you are looking for, but here are some for the classical/late antique period:

On Persia:
Parveneh Pourshariati's Decline and Fall of the Sasanian Empire was extremely important and full of new approaches to Persian history in the centuries immediately prior to Islam. It's not the easiest of reads from cover-cover, but if you are seriously interested, go here. It is especially useful for its discussions of some of the "minor" pre-Sasanian and Sasanian families and dynasties that made up Persia and its environs.

For a very similar period of Persian history is Touraj Daryaee's Sasanian Persia: The Rise and Fall of an Empire

On Syria:

Ross Burns' Damascus: A History is an extremely useful and extremely readable history of the capital of Syria as a case study of settlement in Syria over the millenia. The early sections of it I would highly recommend.

More generally:
Cyril Mango's The Oxford History of Byzantium is a useful, concise work on Byzantium.

It hasn't been mentioned here, but Peter Brown's World of Late Antiquity is also considered by a great many to be essential reading on the period, if you've never read it before. Plenty of people strongly disagree with it, but everyone who works on the ancient/late-antique world is forced to engage with it at some point, whether they like it or not. It is also extremely readable.

Slaw brader! I urge you to learn the Kurdish language (whether Kurmanji or Sorani, which is closest to your family's origin) and try to pass it on to forthcoming generations, whether your own kids or friends/relatives who are also Kurdish. It's the most important aspect to our culture and it's what kept us alive after all this time. It also helps you interact with our music of course and learn the meaning behind the texts, some of which might be culturally inspired.

Literature wise, here are some books that help you understand the Kurdish politics a bit better and where we stand today and what we have endured as people in the recent past.

https://www.amazon.com/After-Knowledge-Forgiveness-Encounters-Kurdistan/dp/0813335809

https://www.amazon.com/Kurdish-National-Movement-Development-Contemporary/dp/081563093X

https://www.amazon.com/Mesopotamia-Kurdistan-Disguise-Banister-Soane/dp/1602069778

Music wise, some prolific singers are the following:

Omer Dzhey, Hassan Zirak. Most importantly, the national anthem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fne64RysKmA

Charles Rollin has a very thorough (albeit dry) history of many ancient civilisations, including the Assyrians (here's the first volume). It's not all that great as an introductory text, but it is very informative. Personally, I've found that journal articles are much better for me and my interests. There's a Journal of Assyrian Academic Studies which, while it usually focuses on modern Assyrian issues, also has good articles about history. I can't really recommend any amazing books, but I hope that helps.

The closest I've found from within my database would be The Parthian and Early Sasanian Empires. It goes into the material culture that's been found, as well as GrecoRoman influences that archaeologists have been able to uncover.

As for biblical archaeology that doesn't just rely on the Bible, there's Nineveh, the Great City: Symbol of Beauty and Power. This is a compilation of articles written by specialists on the region, analyzing what's been found concerning the city. This does cover a span of time from prehistory to Nineveh's destruction in 612BC. Quite expensive for the trade consumer - see if a local university library doesn't have it or you can request it from someone.

Third suggestion is a site report on Carchemish, spanning again from the neolithic to what you're looking for in the classical era.

Lastly, and while it doesn't examine lifestyle, it's a personal favorite of mine just on a bookphile level: A Wayside Shrine in Northern Moab: Excavations in the Wadi ath-Thamad. The textbook is quite nice, and the research into the site report fantastic. Editor Michele Daviau has won the The P. E. MacAllister Field Archaeology Award from ASOR for her fieldwork in the Near East. Really do recommend even if it's just a browse.

From the 1850ies onward there was a very intense interest in excavations from Babylonia/Assyria, even international competition between British French and later German scholars for new findings.

"The later nineteenth century was a time of great intellectual upheaval. The developing science of geology was revealing the immense age and gradual formation of the earth, while Charles Darwin was showing how life had evolved in all its diversity. This new knowledge undermined the certainties of the Bible, according to which the world was created in immutable form at a date calculated by biblical scholars as 4004 B.C.E. In this epoch of challenge to established traditional views, many found it reassuring that archaeological research in the Near East was uncovering cities and records of individuals familiar from the Bible, thus confirming and buttressing its authenticity." [ 1 ]

so it is not quite true that there was no interest.

Many important excavations happened in the nineteenth century -
the library of Ashurbanipal was brought to London in 1849; cuneiform tablets in Akkadian language were read by 1855 (later they learned how to read Sumerian texts from translation tables), excavation of Lagash by Robert Koldewey in 1887, lots of things happened; by 1910 the chronology was largely known (quite a challenge as each city state had its own system of chronology) [2]

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[1] 'Ancient Mesopotamia / New Perspectives' Jane R. McIntosh http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Mesopotamia-Perspectives-Understanding-Civilizations/dp/1576079651

[2] "A History of Sumer and Akkad" by L. W King https://archive.org/details/historyofsumerak00kinguoft

Actually, what we determine as 'race' and 'gender' are ever changing. They are real, but the concepts of them change as our societies perpetually evolve.

As for the source on Mesopotamia: link . There's also a book you can look into in regards to Mesopotamia here.

And the fact that women are actually better communicators in regards to emotions is true. The way a man's brain is wired is different than a woman's: men are wired so signals go down each hemisphere laterally, while a woman's brain is wired so signals go between the hemispheres. Not to mention that most societies now a days teach women to be better listeners and caregivers, while men are taught to hold in their emotions, making them more emotionally harder to deal with as children.

I apologize if you don't believe me on this, but it is true. If you want more proof, I can contact my teachers and some people I know that major in history to give you some more sources and proof on this matter.

Here are some texts on Assyrians and can all be ordered online from a book store. Most, if not all are written by academics and reputable authors.

• Reforging a Forgotten History
  
  
• Year of the Sword: written by an Assyrian academic in France about the Assyrian genocide.
  
  
• Tragedy of the Assyrians
  
  
• Assyrians, Kurds & Ottomans
  
  If you're new to all of this, I'd greatly recommend any of Fred Aprim's books. He's a good writer with extensive knowledge.
  
  The first two books are really good. Currently reading the "Continuous Saga" and it explains our origins and has very interesting information regarding our existence.
  
  Thanks for your concern and interest in our people, it does mean a lot seeing a non-Assyrian wanting to learn and understand Assyrians. :)

/r/OccultConspiracy, my friend!

Great for gettin your jimmies rustled with horrified fascination.

Also Jim Marrs was an amazing writer and lecturer who wrote [Our Occulted History](Our Occulted History: Do the Global Elite Conceal Ancient Aliens? https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062130323/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_rpZgAbHBFG8TH) which was pretty much it for me. After that you’re stuck in the rabbit hole of Knowing lol

Norse mythology by gaiman is awesome, especially if you listen to it in audiobook format as gaiman adds an element to the story as he reads it. Also, there is a collection of books by Scott Lewis that was a really awesome read. It covers Chinese, Mesopotamia, Japan, Norse, Greek, Celtic, Egyptian, and Hindu mythology. It’s a good starter into a lot of different cultures and I found it fascinating, especially the Mesopotamian myths about gilgamesh.

Sumerian literature as we know it mostly surrounds the Epic of Gilgamesh, because (iirc) most Sumerian records are about business transactions and other miscellaneous records kept on those clay cylinders. There is a book by Samuel Noah Kramer (widely considered one of the best Sumerian scholars and translators) that explains their mythological stories with great commentary about the organizational strategy of Sumerian poetry/literature. I loved the book and used it as one of my sources for a graduate level course in Religious Studies at my university.

I’ll take your thanks over your money any time haha. If you want to spend money, this is - was to me - quite an interesting read on the subject:

• Kurt A. Raaflaub, “War and Peace in the Ancient World” (https://www.amazon.com/Peace-Ancient-World-Kurt-Raaflaub/dp/1405145269)

My personal favourite work on the subject of Inanna-Ishtar is Ishtar by Louise M. Pryke as part of Routledge's Gods and Heroes of the Ancient World series.

It's quite expensive in hardback form, so I suggest trying out the Kindle edition or searching around elsewhere. Perhaps you'll be able to find it in another format.

Also, of course, there's Inanna, Queen of Heaven and Earth by Diane Wolkstein. I've heard very good things about it, but haven't been able to get to it yet, unfortunately.

For correspondences, things of a Venusian nature might work very nicely. :)

>it's harder and retains an edge slightly better

It's none of these things. High tin content in weapons-grade bronze is harder and holds a sharper edge than iron and most steel.

Dan Howard wrote a few books on this sort of thing. A well prepared Bronze Blade can outperform medium carbon steel. This book is a fantastic entry point for metallurgy used by ancient militaries.


Also, if you use an iron sword to deflect an iron sword you're going to take a chunk out of it. If it's hardened steel or bronze, you have a better chance of an actual piece flying off though.

Additionally, bronze blades needed to be a bit thicker, and they are also a bit heavier.

Here are all the local Amazon links I could find:


amazon.com

amazon.co.uk

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The myth of Heracles in the underworld appears to be inspired by the last tablet of the Epic of Gilgamesh, which in turn, appears to be inspired by the descent of Ishtar to the Underworld.

According to Charles Penglase, author of Greek Myths and Mesopotamia, there are parallels between the Homeric Hymn to Apollo and the Mesopotamian Ninurta and Marduk myths; Same with Prometheus and Pandora and the myths about Enki in the works of Hesiod.

Greek society took more than myths from other cultures; for example, the greek alphabet is very similar to the hebrew alphabet in the order and name of their letters:
Aleph, Bet, Gimel, Dalet -> Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta.

EDIT: As Daeres pointed out below, there's clear evidence for the greek alphabet being derived from the phoenicians; I've also read that in turn, the phoenicians derived it from other canaanites, and these derived it from the egyptians. But you get the point, the greeks adapted lots of stuff from other cultures, not only the myths.