#17,681 in History books
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Reddit mentions of The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life (A Free Press Paperbacks Book)
Sentiment score: -1
Reddit mentions: 6
We found 6 Reddit mentions of The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life (A Free Press Paperbacks Book). Here are the top ones.
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| Release date | May 2010 |
From the article:
>Sam Harris, a popular podcast host, has released three lengthy shows about Charles Murray, a political scientist who is often booed at campus speeches and whose 2017 talk at Middlebury College ended when students injured his host. Murray argues that white people test higher than black people on “every known test of cognitive ability” and that these “differences in capacity” predict white people’s predominance. Harris repeatedly insists he has no vested interest in Murray’s ideas. His only interest in Murray, he claims, rests in his dedication to discussing science and airing controversial views.
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>But Harris’s claim is implausible. Hundreds of scientists produce controversial work in the fields of race, demographics and inequality. Only one, though, is the social scientist nationally notorious for suggesting that white people are innately smarter than people of color. That Harris chooses to invite this one on his show suggests that he is not merely motivated by freedom of speech. It suggests that he is interested in what Murray has to say.
I don't think this is true; the article is on the money for some, but incorrect in how it analyzes Harris in particular. I think Ezra Klein far more accurately diagnosed what was going on during his conversation with Sam Harris:
>I think you have a deep empathy for Charles Murray’s side of this conversation, because you see yourself in it. I don’t think you have as deep an empathy for the other side of this conversation. For the people being told once again that they are genetically and environmentally and at any rate immutably less intelligent and that our social policy should reflect that.
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>I think part of the absence of that empathy is it doesn’t threaten you. I don’t think you see a threat to you in that, in the way you see a threat to you in what’s happened to Murray. In some cases, I’m not even quite sure you heard what Murray was saying on social policy either in The Bell Curve and a lot of his later work, or on the podcast. I think that led to a blind spot, and this is worth discussing.
A blind spot and a lack of empathy is not the same as being interested in the racist justification for plutocratic policy that Murray is selling, and I think this article is wrong to suggest it is. Nonetheless, it is still a huge problem for how Sam talks about issues relating to race in America.
For videos, Black Pigeon Speaks has some decent stuff, pretty decent production values and easily digestible:
https://www.youtube.com/user/TokyoAtomic
I highly recommend Steve Sailer's blog. I often disagree with him, but he consistently writes interesting, readable pieces (including many on race and IQ, genetics, etc) and dissects the bias in Western media. He's a good source to check often. Also, I highly recommend reading the comments on there, there is consistently high quality discussion on each topic (I don't post there so I'm not tooting my own horn here).
He writes on a lot of different topics, some of which will undoubtedly be irrelevant/boring to you, so be sure to use the "Topics/Categories" filter to browse whatever interests you.
https://www.unz.com/isteve/
If you want a quicker look at the race/IQ stuff, here's a decent summary:
https://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf
If you want a whole book, The Bell Curve is probably a fine place to start. The stuff about race and IQ is just a chapter or two, though.
https://www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Intelligence-Structure-Paperbacks-ebook/dp/B003L77VY2
For political theory, you might check out Mencius Moldbug if you haven't already. I'm not particularly a Moldbug fan but he wrote quite a few interesting, thought-provoking essays.
https://www.unqualified-reservations.org
It's dense reading, and out of fashion with a lot of the modern Right, but it has some interesting ideas that are pretty far out of the mainstream.
I get the sense you're from Europe maybe? Of course the above stuff is mostly focused on American society and politics, I don't know any good European sources.
That's off the top of my head, there's lots of other stuff out there I guess. Actual "books" are hard to find though because the publishing industry does not look favorably on these sorts of ideas.
ETA: BTW, none of these guys are extremists or Nazis or whatever, they are basically buttoned down academic types. They just have ideas that are considered heretical in the modern West.
Probably the most common source for the score of 85 is Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life, the 1994 book by Herrnstein and Murray. That book, even though it was not (contrary to common belief) primarily addressed to race, did have one chapter on race and IQ. Which proved... controversial.
The controversy about The Bell Curve prompted the APA to commission a report, Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns (1996) on what was known about IQ, which... largely backed up TBC. But, with specific regard to your point, the "85" number is addressed (page 93 of the PDF) along with the general topic of racial variance in mean IQ score;
>African Americans. The relatively low mean of the distribution of African American intelligence test scores has been discussed for many years. Although studies using different tests and samples yield a range of results, the Black mean is typically about one standard deviation (about 15 points) below that of Whites (Jensen, 1980; Loehlin et at., 1975; Reynolds et at., 1987). The difference is largest on those tests (verbal or nonverbal) that best represent the general intelligence factor g (Jensen, 1985).
Note that the "White Mean" is set at 100, thus the 85 number.
It's important to point out that recognizing that a difference exists is not the same as explaining the difference. Why there is a gap is a subject of a lot of (heated) discussion, but the practical reality of this observation are extremely firmly established. To give an offhand example, take a look at a graph published in a New York Times editorial a few days ago.
For those that don't want the click, it's a breakdown of the Math SAT scores of students planning on attending College by race/ethnicity and score. The article is no 'race realist' screed, but an argument that the 'achievement gap' constitutes such a crisis that the State is justified in "desegregating" schools and putting low income housing in areas that aren't interested in it.
HBD
Darwin’s Enemies on the Left and Right Part 1, Part 2 (Blog Post)*
The History and Geography of Human Genes (Abridged edition) – Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza
The 10,000 Year Explosion – Gregory Cochrane
Race, Evolution, and Behavior – Rushton
Why Race Matters – Michael Levin
****
Intelligence and Mind
The Bell Curve – Charles Murray
The Global Bell Curve – Richard Lynn
Human Intelligence – Earl Hunt
Cambridge Handbook of Intelligence – Robert Sternberg
A Conflict of Visions – Thomas Sowell
The Moral Animal – Robert Wright
The Blank Slate – Stephen Pinker
Egalitarianism as a Revolt Against Nature – Murray Rothbard (essay)
****
Education
Real Education – Charles Murray
Inside American Education – Thomas Sowell
Illiberal Education – Dinesh D’Sousa
God and Man at Yale – William Buckley
Weapons of Mass Instruction – John Taylor Gatto
The Higher Education Bubble – Glenn Reynolds
****
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I was talking about The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life (A Free Press Paperbacks Book).
Researchers found a statistically significant difference in IQ scores across race when controlling for other factors. Some have labeled the book racist, and others have used it to justify their own racism. Trying to find the middle ground is difficult because on one side you end up assuming the tabula rasa, that every person is a blank slate and environment is everything and that the only reason that blacks score lower on the IQ tests is that they were denied proper opportunities as children (so they should be coddled and given advantages that others aren't), and the other is sheer genetic determinism that means that there is absolutely nothing that can be done and that anyone who is less intelligent (and that would mean proportionally more blacks than whites) in some sense merit their lower status in society.
Of course neither of these options are palatable, so the argument is how to "split the difference" so that we maximize the potential of everyone while avoiding artificial handicaps on anyone. Of course, there are also disagreements on the mechanics of each of those pieces as well. So we're left with a big, complicated mess with lots of moving parts and no solution that will satisfy everyone.