Reddit mentions of The Five Books of Moses: A Translation with Commentary

According to to the Biblical scholar Robert Alter, this passage uses a common convention of repeating something to show that the person listening needed convincing or more explanation.

> "This is the first instance of a common convention of Biblical narrative: when a speaker addresses someone and the formula for introducing speech is repeated with no intervening response from the interlocutor, it generally indicates some sort of significant silence - a failure to comprehend, a resistance to the speaker's words, and so forth."

He goes on, in more words than I feel like typing, to say that after God flatly states his promise, apparently Noah needs more convincing.

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I can't link to the text, but here's a link to the book. He says what I quoted in the notes to the passage in question. The Five Books of Moses

>Illiterate

The fact that the Old Testament exists proves that false.

>scientifically ignorant

Science as a discipline didn't exist until thousands of years later. So yes, they were obviously scientifically ignorant, but that's a strange standard for a blanket sentence of "ignorance" for an entire civilization.

>superstitious

First, that depends on your beliefs. Second, every culture is filled with superstitious people.

>violent, reactionary, tribal

Sounds like America 2019. Yes, they were indeed human with many human follies.

If this is really your entire view of ancient Hebrew culture (and perhaps all ancient cultures?) I honestly feel sorry for you. It's a common view from people who have read the Old Testament but failed to actually understand it in its cultural context. I suggest reading The Five Books of Moses by Robert Alter, and excellent new translation and commentary of the Pentateuch. You don't have to believe the stories are "true" to acknowledge that labeling ancient Hebrew civilization with a blank "ignorant savages" can only come, itself, from a place of ignorance.

not exactly the same thing, but comparative linguist and scholar of the hebrew language robert alter, inspired in part by the biblical-sounding-but-modern works of those such as cormac mccarthy, recently released a very good and heavily footnoted translation of the five books of moses.

among other things, it removes the conjugation 'but' from passages, which is not a construct in the dialect the bible was written in. i own it but have not read it, because i am in the middle of another dense book. i expect it to be fascinating.

For real, check out the King James Version if you're looking to read it for artistry. (The language is antiquated, but that's part of the charm, and it's got a rhythm to it.)

However, if you just want to read some crazy, millenia-old shit told in a really great way, check out Robert Alter's translation of The Five Books of Moses: It's got some of the wildest stuff in it, and Alter translates it into more like a dictated spoken-word album than a dusty old tome.

All religions interest me (as does atheism). My formal graduate education was Christian-centered, but I've always branched out in my private studies. Of the non-Abrahamic faiths, the one I've probably had the most exposure to is Buddhism. I grew up in a religious household, but my parents were never judgmental or exclusionary of other traditions, so I was encouraged to talk to people and find out more about them. I encountered many belief systems and made diverse friends in public school, from Roman Catholic to hardcore atheist, and my interest blossomed from there. I've also always been a voracious reader, which helps!

If you ever want to learn more about the context of Genesis as it was written and as it might have been read by its original audience, I recommend the translation-with-commentary The Five Books of Moses by Robert Alter. (An ironic name for a translator, I know -- but he's outstanding, and takes a knowledgeable secular approach rather than a devotional one. He's also done the David Story, the Psalms, and the Wisdom Books, including Job.) For more on the "Image/Likeness" distinction, it shows up in many Orthodox Christian writings, but Bishop Kallistos Ware (a frequent writer of apologetic works) gives a decent explanation of the concept as his community understands it, beginning on page 219 of his book The Orthodox Church.

I think the Oxford Bible Commentary is a great resource in general. They publish commentary on sections of the Bible in separate volumes, including one on the Pentateuch, which includes an overview of the history of Pentateuch criticism and the development of the JEPD Documentary Hypothesis.

The Anchor Yale Bible Reference Library has a lot of good resources in biblical criticism too. They recently released this hefty renewal/evaluation/overview of JEPD. It received a good review from the Catholic Biblical Quarterly, which I think is considered a respectable representative of mainstream biblical studies.

Also, Robert Alter (The Art of Biblical Narrative) is always fun to read for a fresh, literary perspective. He might have an interesting take on JEPD in his edition of the Pentateuch.

If you're going literary, you can't beat Robert Alter. Compare:


JPS:
>When God began to create heaven and earth — the earth being unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and a wind from God sweeping over the water — God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, a first day.

Alter:
>When God began to create heaven and earth, and the earth then was welter and waste and darkness over the deep and God's breath hovering over the waters, God said, "Let there be light." And there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good, and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And it was evening and it was morning, first day.


He's translated the psalms, too, to interesting effect:


nJPS:

My God, my God, why have You abandoned me;
why so far from delivering me and from my anguished roaring?
My God, I cry by day——You answer not;
by night, and have no respite.

Alter:

My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?
Far from my rescue are the words that I roar.
My God, I call out by day and You do not answer,
by night——no stillness for me.

KJV:

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Why art Thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not;
and in the night season, and am not silent.

Go with the JPS or Artscroll if you want a more classical translation, or go with Alter which is a really nice edition.

it makes sense to a dude who did the research. his footnotes go into great detail concerning his reasons for translating certain words certain ways. It's a very interesting read, even if you don't ultimately agree with him.

https://www.amazon.ca/Five-Books-Moses-Translation-Commentary/dp/0393333930

Another resource I really like is The Five Books of Moses by Robert Alter which you can pick up for about 8 dollars, used on amazon Alter is a Professor of Hebrew at Berkeley as well as honorific titles elsewhere he has gone back and not only given a better translation than a lot of the original Masoretic translation but also adds in some historical context as well. It is a fairly scholarly work, that is some might find it a bit dry but I think it is a great addition to learning.