(Part 2) Best products from r/Divorce

Hey OP,

This is a rough one, for sure. When your spouse finds their "soul mate" and then ends up trying to kickstart everything. Here's the thing, you need to focus on yourself if you want to heal. I'm sure your therapist has told you this, but you will remain stuck unless you focus on yourself. I've put some links below and the last one is a great podcast episode (with transcript) that provides a good road map for moving forward in this situation. I wish I had it when I got started.

From the outside it appears that she is living the life; she found her "soul mate", she has the big house, and a kid with her love. Man, what a lucky woman! Here's the thing. You have NO idea what is happening behind closed doors. For all you know they can't stand one another, and likely have trust issues as they know that their SO has no issues getting involved with someone who isn't their spouse, or someone else's spouse! Cheaters have to legitimize their relationship to others, because they know deep inside that it is wrong and inherently illegitimate. So they get married, have kids, and do their best to put on a show about being the picture perfect couple. Another Redditor wrote this to me about my situation, and it is a very good way to frame how you should look at this when you think it's all so unfair (which it is).

>Try not to compare your happiness to hers. It may seem like she's breaking all the rules and getting away with it, like the rules only apply to you, but consider instead that you're not playing the same game. Her game may have fewer rules, but the reward is hollow and ultimately less satisfying. Your game is harder, but if you stay the course and do what you need to do, you can find an enduring happiness that isn't available in her game.

Dude, this is your time to reclaim your life. 18 months post divorce and you're still like this? I would honestly start looking at whether this therapist is doing you any good. I am very PRO therapist, but if at 18 months you are this stuck and feel you are getting worse, then what are you paying for? You need to focus on yourself. Figure out what you contributed negatively to the marriage (we all do, so don't be proud). Work on fixing those things so you don't bring that baggage into a new relationship. Now, what is it you want to do with yourself? Who do you want to be? What things did you always want to do but couldn't because of the relationship? Sit down and really figure out the man you want to become. This should, ideally, include some physical activity as exercise is just good for your overall. Whether it is weights, running, long walks, whatever. And your confidence will skyrocket as your body transforms. The "Rise from the Ashes" link below is a great way to take that and make an action plan for it.

Fact is, your ex has moved on, regardless of whether she is truly happy or not. It isn't fair, but it is what it is. You sitting around sulking about what was is keeping you stuck, and life is too short to allow for her actions to derail you permanently. Please focus on yourself and FOCUS ON YOUR KIDS! Model to them what it is to be strong in the face of adversity. Use them are your compelling reason to keep going. When they're older you want them to think of you as the definition of strength and resilience! Become the definition of what a man should be for your kids.

Lastly, here are a few resources that I hope can help you. I could go on and on but the gist is take life by the balls, and don't worry about your ex. When you focus on yourself is when the real healing/growth can begin. Best of luck, friend:

How to Get Over Break Ups and Betrayal

How to fix a broken heart

Breakups: How to free yourself from pain

Madea - Let Them Go

"Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life" by Chump Lady

Fixing Your Marriage by Fixing Yourself (Don't let the title fool you, this is also applicable for those of us who have separated/divorced)

Rise from the Ashes

Part of my divorce was what you describe - and my ex is not living "a happier" life.

I do understand your position, and you probably feel underappreciated or alone..... but you need to also try and give your husband the benefit of the doubt ($1000s in therapy and that was the best advice - it is simple and true). He too is working and exhausted, he too needs love and attention..... He too needs to escape (TV or other distractions).... And these times are difficult, children are difficult. You should ask yourself how he has changed, has his dream of an "authentic life" really disappeared? Probably not, he is just getting up and working to make sure the house is over your head and food on your plate. He probably has shifted his view of the world as well, kids will do that.... He probably wants to see your kids have the best outcome - and that might not be a tiny home, home schooled while driving around the world... He probably is trying to make sure there is stability in their life.

Have you gone on a date with him recently? Have you tried to talk with him and work on your physical relationship? Have you tried? Marriage is hard, and divorce will not make it easier and the courts will definitely reduce your "dreams of an authentic" life because they only care about consistency and predictable future for your children.

Another "$1000s advice from marriage therapy", you need to create positivity in your relationship. It does not happen naturally, it is work and it is intentional. Stop expecting from him and stepup to create a better relationship for you and him. A healthy relationship needs 4 out of 5 (generic #s) to be successful. If you have more negative, then you will have a unrealistic and unhealthy belief your husband is a "problem".

Marriage is tough, mainly because you are doing things out of love. Being a mother is tough, because you are constantly being selfless (and fatherhood is the same - he too is giving up on dreams and being selfless)....try reading 7 principals that make a marriage work (link below), it is a interactive marriage book for couples.... And you would be surprised at how not unique your marriage difficulties are, at how "textbook" your situation is.... A lot of people struggle with your exact issues and situation.... A lot of marriages end do to the transition from "ideal love" to "fuck: kids, work and family are taxing in life".

And... To counter your issues, ask yourself how "free" your life will be when you are single and working to stay a float. Having to do 100% of your life work and planning... Trust me, that dream of a unique life will be harder to accomplish. How unique will it be dating again, trust me it is not that cool and unique having 1 night stands and being disappointed over and over again.

Try and talk with your husband about your dreams and needs, and ask that he really listens to you.... And then you need to drink a dose of reality and be patient. Life will happen and give both of you time to reacclimate to life as parents.

But, honestly... if anything, try to work on your relationship... It is the easiest and most rewarding work you can do. There are great resources out there. If you choose therapy, be judgemental and picky because there are bad therapist out there. The tpey of therapy that I appreciated was EFT (Emotionally Focused Therapy). It is research based and focused on bad habits.

Here is a start:
The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert https://www.amazon.com/dp/0609805797/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_mAQuDbWNFBMXB

Take care, you can do this! Because, being loving and supportive parents and not divorced is a unique life... Try to change your perspective. (But don't run away from your dreams, just plan and live them out).

California Family Law attorney here. Greetings and salutations!

>I'm turning 28 next week and recently asked my wife for a divorce. I guess the reason would be irreconcilable differences, but I can go into more detail if needed. We've been married for just over three years. We rent an apartment, don't have any kids, but we have 2 cats. We got married in Florida, but we've been living in California for ~2.5 years.

California properly has jurisdiction over your divorce, as you have been living in the state for at least 6 months. I will assume you have been living in the same county for at least 3 months - that is where you file.

>I also make a lot more money than her. About 3x as much. And my assets are significantly more than hers. About 10x as much. We've had conversations where she's stated she doesn't/wouldn't want any money from me, but as far as I know the state of California is unrelenting in its desire to bend you over the table and give it to you good. So I guess one question I have is - is it possible to do this without lawyers and just get a divorce without all kinds of asset allocation bullshit?

Here is the good news - if you and your wife agree to the terms of your divorce, the court in California does not give a rat's ass what that may be. Unrelenting? My good man, you give a California judicial officer too much credit - he or she has a packed calendar and if they can see one case resolve itself, they're apt to yell, "Mazel tov!" and sign whatever you place in front of them. Especially if there are no kids.

So, yes, you can do it without lawyers, and there are a number of books to help you, my own being one of them. Mind you, I always recommend that once you and the wife have agreed, if you want some peace of mind, it is not a bad idea to go pay a lawyer for an hour of his or her time to tell you what kind of deal you made.

In my experience, I have seen people give away the farm to their ex-spouse . . . and walk away, happy and whistling. I have also seen couples fight to the death over . . . Beanie Babies. You see what I'm saying? Your divorce is what you and she make it.

And let me explain what the "6-motnh waiting period" is. One of the "results" of your divorce is that your marital status is terminated. All that means is that your legal status as a married person is converted into that of a single person. The law states that the court cannot terminate your marital status no sooner than 6 months after the Petition - the initial filing that gets the ball a-rollin' - has been served. So, there can be a couple who, in a matter of a few days, files everything, exchanges their declarations of disclosure, writes up a judgement, and submits it all to the court. At that point, their divorce can be said to be "final" in that all they are doing is waiting for the signed judgement to come back. Let's say a month later, it does. They have a Judgment for Dissolution of Marriage. Everything is done . . . except there will be a notice that at a future date - 6 months + 1 day since service - their marital status ends and they will wake up on that morning as single people, free to go out and file taxes as a single person, remarry, whatever you crazy single people do. See, most people take longer than 6 months to divorce, so when they finally get a Judgment in for His Honor or Her Honor to sign (whether by agreement or nasty, expensive trial), when their judge actually does so, their marital status is terminated on that date, as it has been longer than 6 months.

But, for shits and grins, let's say she wants spousal support. 2.5 year marriage? Ah, unless there are some crazy circumstances - like she has no arms, no legs, and never learned to read or write - your worst case scenario is likely to be 1/2 that duration, some 14, 15 months to pay. And yes, the court takes into consideration her PT salary; hell, you can get a judge ask, "Ma'am, have you looked into getting a second PT job?" So if she wants something and/or you don't want to be an asshole, you can always agree to pay for something for about a year, after which spousal support ends.

Oh, and btw, spousal support is income. That means it is taxable to her and tax-deductible for you. So long as it is paid pursuant to an order of the Court, like your Judgment.

Also, check out these guidelines - you may qualify for a Summary Dissolution, which is easier to file and process the paperwork.

>Of course, if the state of California awards her half my money she's not going to have any financial issues for a while.

Don't confuse spousal support with property division. CA is a community property state, meaning community property is split evenly. Spousal support takes other factors into consideration and it is rare you're going to see the court divide your paycheck, if that is what you were thinking.

Buena suerte, ese!

I'm late to the party, but I really want to offer my $.02. I get the feeling like you are my wife in this scenario, and I'm in the position of your current wife. Don't string her along. If you can be open and willing to fix it, then you will fix it. If she's desperate to try anything then you don't have to worry about effort on her part, she just needs guidance. You have to be willing to put forth the effort. I'd believe that as long as you are truly open and willing to put forth that effort on your side then it can succeed, and you can start living your life -- with her.

I say this, as a man who has been broke down, shown very little love, and had no guidance. I've asked family, friends, coworkers, and the internet for advice. I've read books and articles. For 3 months I gave up all my hobbies, I gave up all my friends, and I put my 100% into trying to save my marriage because she said she'd give me the opportunity to see what I can do. But she never put effort in on her side, and without HER GUIDANCE I was essentially setting myself up for failure for months. I realized that there was nothing more I can actually do if she isn't willing to even try, which includes giving me guidance to do what she needs. So last Thursday I brought it up in a conversation and she decided that it was best to just end it still, again no help from her side. Don't pity me, this is not a cry for attention. I just want to point out that if you're not going to put in effort on your side, spare her from wasting her time effort and energy. If you want to put forth a legitimate effort on your side into seeing if it's salvageable and start living your life with her (emphasis on living, because it is possible even from a shitty situation), you need to work with her.

If you're going to try, I have recommendations that I suggest the both of you begin with. Read this book. Despite my marriage failing, it has shown me concepts that I intend to follow my whole life. So for that matter, I'd recommend reading it even if you do intend to divorce.

After you read that book, reinforce it with this one. I found that on it's own it's not quite as helpful, but as reinforcement to the first book it just encourages a positive relationship.

Best of luck to you regardless, let me know if you have any questions about what I've done and how I've handled whatever.

You've already received some great responses here, so hopefully you find mine just as helpful. As a fellow child of divorce, here's my experience:

I went into my adulthood determined to not make the same mistakes my parents did. I vowed that if I ever go married, I wouldn't get divorced. I just wouldn't let that happen to my family. One big problem with that theory: It assumed that I had control over the whole situation. Oops.

I got married, for all the wrong reasons, to someone I didn't love, didn't really know, and was wholly unprepared to be married.

Not only did I make the same mistakes my parents did, I refused to admit that I was making the exact same mistakes. The final bullet to the back of the head for my marriage was the fact that I married an addict.

"If I knew then what I know now..." I would never have married my first wife.

Here are my suggestions on how to best prepare yourself to prevent the same mistakes from happening to you:

• Read books and articles on marriage. Lots of them. Read secular books like The Power of Two about how to maintain a healthy marriage and build good communication. Read Christian books like Love and Respect to gain additional perspective and insight on what marriage is supposed to look like.
  
  
• Get married to the right person for the right reasons. The wrong reasons: "Because our friends are doing it; I'm supposed to at this age; We've been together for 3 years now, it's the next logical step; Her and/or my parents are pressuring us to do it. The right reasons: She is my best friend, and I want to build a life together with her. She wants to be with me, and neither of us want to imagine a future without each other.
  
  
• Is your wife your best friend? The basis of a quality marriage is friendship. She should be your first friend, your closest friend, your most important ally and confidant--and you should be hers. It can't be one way. Both of you can have friends outside the partnership that you are close with. You can have some friends that know all about your professional dreams. Some friends can know all your fears about diving off the high dive at the swim club. Other friends can know that one thing that will always embarrass you. Your SO should be the only one that knows them all, plus all the other fears that NO ONE knows about. Your spouse should know all the deepest darkest secrets, fears, dreams, hopes, insecurities--and you should know hers.
  
  
• Make time for each other on a regular basis. This is easy to do in the newlywed phase. But as your marriage carries on and career, kids, and everyday life add mountains of stress, this gets harder. The successful couples are the couples that make time to talk to each other even in the midst of a busy workday. They have a date night each week, without fail. They go away together for a weekend without kids at least once a quarter. They go to marriage seminars or workshops once a year or every other year.
  
  
• Treat your marriage as a living organism, not a piece of paper. The most common mistake I see among divorcing couples, in real life and here in this sub, is that one or both spouses didn't make their spouse and their marriage a priority. They just thought that "if I marry the right person, the marriage will just be magical all by itself." Your garden doesn't grow (well) without a lot of care. There are weeds to be pulled. The plants require fertilizing. They require lots of sunlight. They need water. You have to protect them from wildlife and insects. A garden that is left unattended all summer may produce some vegetables, but they won't be very healthy and there won't be a lot of them. And you'll be very discouraged next spring when its time to plant a garden again. Tend the plants, feed and water them, weed the garden, and you'll have a very healthy, vibrant harvest at the end of the growing season. One that you'll be proud of, and look forward to planting again in the spring.
  
  What are the weeds, animals, and insects that can harm your garden (your marriage)? Infidelity, insecurity, selfishness, materialism, workaholism. What are the fertilizer and sunlight you need to help your garden? Great communication, making your marriage a priority in your life, investing in your marriage like any other important asset in your life.
  
  Above all, make sure that your SO feels the same way in all of these areas. If she doesn't agree (wants to be in a open relationship, likes partying, doesn't like spending time with you, avoids confrontation, is insecure, whatever--these are all red flags that you should NOT ignore) then talk to her about the areas of disagreement. If she's inflexible, consider it a dealbreaker. Trust me when I say this, if she's not on board now, she sure as shit won't be on board 10 years, 2 kids, and 20 lbs from now. You both need to be in the boat, and willingly and enthusiastically rowing in the same direction ON EVERYTHING.
  
  Good luck.

4. Hang out with people that are legitimately loved by others.

As depicted in Buffett's biography, "The Snowball: Warren Buffett and the Business of Life," Buffett once was asked by Georgia Tech students about his greatest success and greatest failure, to which he responded: "When you get to my age, you'll really measure your success in life by how many of the people you want to have love you actually do love you." He adds, "I know people who have a lot of money ... but the truth is that nobody in the world loves them....that's the ultimate test of how you have lived your life." Buffett nails it with one final statement on the secret to being loved: "The trouble with love is that you can't buy it ... The only way to get love is to be lovable ... The more you give love away, the more you get."

1. Talking will not help. Communication is very important in marriage but it does not help in critical situations (based on my experience and this book http://www.amazon.com/Improve-Marriage-Without-Talking-ebook/dp/B001PSEQ6U). However you are very happy if she still talks with you.
   
   
2. People can't change who they are but they can change how they approach various situations. She was different before your marriage I guess (otherwise I don't see why are you married) so there are things she can change.
   
   
3. She might be unhappy as well but because of different reasons than you.
   
   
4. Everything will be worse in the future most probably if there is no significant change. If you really want to save this marriage there are much bigger chances if you will work together on that or use some help from third party. Since we speak about lack of sex here as well you will not do that alone most probably. The problem is that people with low libido do not understand that lack of sex for people with high libido causes effects similar to migraine.
   
   
5. There is possibility she was not your dream girl. Maybe she is beautiful and sex was great initially but maybe there are many things where you do not match. E.g. different hobbies, different approach to drugs/alcohol, profession where you don't have anything to share between yourselves, different life goals, lastly different values (religious, social...), different approach how kids must be raised. I'm not saying that everything must match but having great sex can not be the only reason to marry.
   
   Think really well what you want yourself. It will not harm you if you will try out every possible option to save marriage - in the worst case you will come out better person from marriage and better prepared for new relationship.
   
   P.S. Child will not save your marriage. So do not consider this option.

I am in a very similar situation at the moment. We started out in mediation and I believed it was for the kids benefit that I do the every other weekend routine (or, if I decided to take her generous offer, every weekend).

Once I asked for 50% parenting time she completely flipped. I have had several emails where she accuses me of being a danger to the children and recently she threatened to try and take out a restraining order after I drove off when she started to yell at me and charge up to my car to continue to yell at me.

I have several examples of her poor and contradictory behavior in email, and my lawyer has the same information now too. She has reported that she doesn't have enough money to run the A/C in the house, but that same weekend she got a matching tattoo with her boyfriend. She has even gone as far to contact my new girlfriend behind my back to arrange a meeting "for the kids". I am happy that my girlfriend is a licensed therapist and can not only see through her manipulation, but can also help me remain calm and vet my emails so that they follow the BIFF statement detailed in another comment here.

I live in a single party notification state, so I keep audio recordings of each and every verbal conversation so she can't misrepresent the situation after the fact.

In order to keep yourself balanced, make sure you surround yourself with good friends and talk to them. Seeing a therapist is also a good step and will be a positive item to the court. As she loses control over you and you quit reacting to her she will become more angry and more manipulative. Be careful as she will use others against you. Emails which are quite benign that I have sent have been answered with 2 page long invective's that repeat how I am a poor father and that I am snide, condescending and that I am constantly angry.

I recently picked up the following book from the library:
Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder
http://www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Borderline-Narcissistic-Personality/dp/1608820254

I have yet to finish it, but it has good information on how you should act, how to help yourself and your lawyer. You will be insulted in court, she will try to make you look like a poor father. The best defense it to know you are a good father and that you can show you are taking the high road.

I'm sorry you have to go through this, it is tough to have someone you thought had your best interests in mind to turn around and attack you with the intimate knowledge of your life. But this is really about protecting yourself and being the best you can be for your children.

I wish you luck.

I’ve been reading this one https://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Loving-Co-Commitment-Gay-Hendricks/dp/0553354116

There’s no god speak but there are a few weird analogies and stereotyping of behavior that feels slightly off to me.

A little different but incredibly fascinating and could help you was “ The Courage to be Disliked” which sets out Adler psychology and encourages you to consider your self, your behavior and why anyone behaves the way they do, without pointing fingers at those who are “broken”. I truly love this book and have it on my phone so have highlighted it to death. I like books that don’t tell me I’m doing things wrong, but offer me interesting perspective shifts to act in ways that work better for me.

Also equally weird but same gist in terms of personal responsibility (that plays into whether or not your enter into “codependent” relationships) is The Four Agreements. My therapist and flatmate both recommended this book, despite potentially being inaccessible with its black magic talk. Give it a go, though!

This is more for /u/anonymousposts18 since I don't get the sense that you are interested in understanding marriage or relationships particularly much. These quotes are from https://www.gottman.com/blog/timing-is-everything-when-it-comes-to-marriage-counseling/

"Timing is an essential element in whether marriage counseling works. Unfortunately, most couples wait much too long to reach out for help repairing their marriage. According to relationship and marriage expert Dr. John Gottman, couples wait an average of six years of being unhappy before getting help. Think about this statistic for a few minutes. Couples have six years to build up resentment before they begin the important work of learning to resolve differences in effective ways."

and

"Couples can benefit from reminding each other of Dr. John Gottman’s guiding principle of adding more positive interactions — a five-to-one ratio. In other words, for every negative interaction with your partner, add five positive ones. Don’t take love for granted and adopt a mindset that differences can spark passion and interest. Ultimately, you are responsible for your own happiness.

Further, Gottman coins the phrase turning toward one another to describe how couples can learn to react in a positive way to one another’s bids for attention rather than “turning away” — which generally involves ignoring a partner’s bid, or acting preoccupied. He writes, “turning toward one another is a kind of secret weapon against elements such as contempt, criticism, defensiveness, and stonewalling — factors that can destroy any relationship.”"

and

"How can marriage counseling help couples?

• If toxic relationship patterns can be identified early and agreed upon, the process of real change can begin.
  
• A motivated couple can begin to explore their problems from a new perspective and learn new ways to recognize and resolve conflicts as a result of the tools provided by the therapist.
  
• Partners can begin to build trust and improve communication that may have eroded the quality of their interactions.
  
• A couples counselor can provide “neutral territory” to help couples agree upon and work through tough issues with support.
  
• Couples can decide to rebuild their marriage and make a renewed commitment, or clarify the reasons why they need to separate or end the marriage."
  
  ​

I had severe panic attacks when I had that conversation with my STBX wife in 2013. My first stop was a psychiatrist who got me on some medications that really helped. There's no good reason to suffer more than you have to.

Here are a few other recommendations:

Get an apartment that you like... It will make you feel better. It doesn't have to be a long-term decision. But have a place you feel good about.

Go to Ikea and get new stuff. Furnish your place. Use TaskRabbit liberally to do the shitty assembly stuff for you.

Get a therapist... you need someone to talk to. It may seem expensive, but remember, this is a 12-month or less situation.

Before you start dating, I recommend reading Tucker Max's new book, Mate, (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316375365/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0316375365&linkCode=as2&tag=tucmax-20&linkId=B42LME2RMHW7DM6E) or listen to his podcast, Mating Grounds. It helped me a ton.

When you feel like you're ready (i.e. when you genuinely reach a place where you hope the best for your ex), get on Bumble, Hinge, Tinder, Happn, OkCupid, etc. and start meeting women for drinks. You'll be pleasantly surprised. Good luck.

I highly recommend getting the book Runaway Husbands. It really helped me through this past year. Also, you may think there's not an affair, but unfortunately there probably is.

I know exactly how you feel, especially how a person could go from being the person you've always known, saying loving things, treating you with kindness and love, talking about the future, making plans--and then literally the next day is a cold stranger who has no qualms about hurting you.

I'm a little over a year out from mine. The first bit of time is so, so dark and painful. It feels like you will never stop crying or stop hurting. But you will. The pain is like waves. You just hang on tight and survive right now. And over time, the waves come with less frequency and overall less intensity.

The best thing that you can do right now is focus on yourself and your son. Force yourself to eat, even though you have absolutely no desire to. Put an alarm on your phone for meal times and then choke something down, even if it's just a container of yogurt and some berries. Do things that make you feel good. It is impossible to imagine feeling good right now, but find those few things that can bring even the thought of a smile to your face, no matter how momentarily.

I kept a gratitude journal (still do) in which I made myself write three things I was thankful for every single day. Even if it was something small (like using my coffee mug or a snuggle with my cat). It helped so immensely to focus on the small positives as my world was being torn apart.

It feels like you won't, but you will survive this. You will. And it won't always hurt this bad. I promise.

BPD is really tough and creates its own set of issues with divorcing. You need to prepare yourself and there are some great resources that can help get you through this. I'd suggest two books, which are both quick reads: Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone With BPD or NPD and Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist. Document everything and keep a daily journal of events including care of the children. Learn everything you can about BPD and how to help your kids through this. Do not expect cooperation but be thankful when and if it happens. Best of luck to you - it's a tough road and I'm also starting the same journey.

BPD is serious and lifelong. I am glad you are getting away. My STBX is not diagnosed but checks a lot of the boxes.

I would recommend two books:
Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder on what you and your lawyer can expect

Will I Ever Be Free of You?: How to Navigate a High-Conflict Divorce from a Narcissist and Heal Your Family

I would also make sure your lawyer has experience with High Conflict spouses (sometimes called BPD cases).

I did my prep work before telling her we were getting divorced so I made copies of the last 3 tax returns and paystubs, deed to the house and titles to the cars, and the most recent bills and financial statements. I had lined up a place for me and the kids to run to if necessary.

Clear your exit plan with your lawyer first so you do not make any dumb mistakes.

Good luck.

My ex wanted a divorce after 12 years ... we had 3 kids. Things started off ok, we traded off weeks... the kids seemed to be adjusting ok. She then went and took a job in another city and moved with the kids (all of that was ok per the divorce decree, just not out of state).

It has been very hard. I only get them on weekends 1, 3, 5 ... it breaks my heart to be away from them for so long. They aren't adjusting too well. Each time I say good bye is difficult ... tears all around. Talking to them every night is not the same. That being said, we've been working hard (the kids and I) to build a better relationship. I have a better relationship with my youngest than I did while married now ...

If you take off you will regret it. Moving past the punishment mentality is a must ... and it is difficult. Then there is the "I don't want to do jack" phase ... I'm in that now ... being productive is a chore ... but it must be done. You have to push through. See a therapist if you need to ... hold your kids and just remember that there still exists a relationship with each of them that is worth fighting for ... they aren't broken. They need you. They want you. They love you. You need to push on so you can be there for them. You will have time for yourself when they are with their mom ... but work to make that time worthwhile and productive.

Lastly, don't hate yourself for your thoughts. Thoughts can be changed. Until they become actions, they are not concrete things ... change your thoughts, change your perspective.

Have a look at the following two books, recommended by my therapist:

• Mind Over Mood
  
  
• [Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends] (http://www.amazon.com/Rebuilding-Relationship-Books-Divorce-Beyond/dp/1886230692/)

Thank you! I am in the middle of divorcing a narcissist. There are no kids. The day I found out he did not put me on his health insurance because "it is too expensive" was the day I realized I could never have kids with him, I was in between jobs.

I am in therapy and have a great support network. Also reading: The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family (https://www.amazon.com/Wizard-Oz-Other-Narcissists-Relationship-ebook/dp/B004MDLJW4?ie=UTF8&btkr=1&ref_=dp-kindle-redirect)

This book has been very eye opening, and useful.

This book is awesome, and has really helped me assess where I'm at in the process emotionally, and has given me exercises and goals that are helping me move further along. I feel that by reading and doing the assessments and exercises it provides, I've really gotten to a more peaceful place, especially with regards to my anger at my cheating ex, so that now I can interact with her more easily when I need to.

It is simply loaded with great advice for those going thru or gone thru the divorce process. What to do vs what not to do, what helps you recover vs what will slow your recovery. I recommend it highly.

Ahh OK. Well good luck. This book might help Divorce-Poison-New-Updated-Bad-mouthing

I can't answer that question, but do have a book recommendation:

http://www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Borderline-Narcissistic-Personality/dp/1608820254

Having divorced a mentally ill spouse, I want to caution you about putting too much hope into a mental health evaluation for custody. You might get what you want, but you very likely might not. You live with your stb ex. You know all the problems of interacting with your stb ex as an adult.

Custody evaluations are a different thing. The bar another parent must pass to be allowed shared custody is pretty low, and made lower by the "lights are on, cameras are rolling" (stole that from /u/Latufu I think) nature of a custody evaluation, which makes everyone present him/her self in the best possible light.

Ask yourself this: when the kids are with the other spouse, will they receive medical care if they need it, will they receive adequate nutrition to support life, will they make it to school on time, and will they have a relatively clean and safe place to sleep. Don't let your anger at your spouse cloud your judgment. If all of those questions can be answered in the affirmative, a psych evaluation will very likely be a heartbreaking waste of money and time.

Also, while I don't know CA law, in my state parents do not pick the evaluator, the courts do. From a few conversations with /u/saricher I gather that my own state and PA CA are fairly similar. I suspect that your researching this won't help you.

Sorry if I seem discouraging.

If the book /u/BlueFalcon2009 recommended doesn't click for you, you might try this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Plain-Simple-Steve-Hagen-ebook/dp/B005CVTTWM/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1499349054&sr=1-1&keywords=buddhism+plain+and+simple

That book was a lifesaver for me when I was going through my divorce. It really helped me reorient my thinking in a way that has made me a much stronger and happier person than I ever was back when I was with my ex.

(I haven't read The Storms Can't Hurt the Sky, so I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with it -- just giving another option).

> I just feel like I am not suited to being alone

I do get this, but it's not healthy. There is such a thing as not needing to depend on someone. I moved in with my now ex husband straight from my parents house, so when we first separated almost a year ago, it was really tough. I didn't know how to be alone, how to not take care of someone else.

But that's the kicker. You need to learn how to take care of yourself - not someone else. By staying the caretaker role, you will keep seeking out toxic relationships. Believe it or not, catering to the other person and relying on one other person for your emotional fulfillment is extremely unhealthy.

Nobody wants to "die alone," but finding a good long-term partner doesn't just happen overnight. You need to learn how to enjoy your own life, not so concerned about finding someone to be with.

So what did I do to overcome all of this? First, you have to sit with the discomfort. Learn to be alone and it not crush you. Force yourself to develop a routine during the week - come home from work, cook dinner, straighten up, prepare lunch for tomorrow, watch a show, go to bed. It will suck at first, for a while - but the whole point is to first get used to it, then learn how to be comfortable with yourself.

Meanwhile, pick up some practices that help you specifically to learn how to just be, regardless of your current circumstances. The best for this are meditation and restorative yoga. A good book to get you started might be Healing After Loss: Daily Meditations For Working Through Grief

Hi, love! I encourage you to read this book;

https://www.amazon.com/Runaway-Husbands-Abandoned-Recovery-Renewal/dp/0986472107/ref=nodl_

What you’ve experienced is unfortunately much more common than people discuss. There is also a Facebook community for abandoned wives based on the book that might be helpful to you!

You tell them exactly that, but before you do so. You read both of these books and ask that they read them as well.


You read these books >

1. https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Love-You-Want-Couples/dp/1250310539/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Getting+the+love+you+want&qid=1572373924&sr=8-1
   
   
2. https://www.amazon.com/Connecting-Through-Yes-Cooperation-Closeness/dp/0989099911/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Jack+Ito&qid=1572373944&sr=8-1

I'm in the process of dicorving someone who is mentally ill as well. The book Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder really helped put things into perspective (which I had read it beforehand). /r/NarcissisticAbuse/ is another good resource. Protect yourself, things will probably get worse before they get better.

Get your own lawyer and put a temporary agreement in place. Don't ever talk to her lawyer about anything.

And read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Borderline-Narcissistic-Personality/dp/1608820254

Did you know Amazon will donate a portion of every purchase if you shop by going to smile.amazon.com instead? Over $50,000,000 has been raised for charity - all you need to do is change the URL!

Here are your smile-ified links:

Healing After Loss: Daily Meditations For Working Through Grief

---

^^i'm ^^a ^^friendly bot

One more thing - saw this mentioned today and it might help you: https://www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Borderline-Narcissistic-Personality/dp/1608820254/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480342616&sr=8-1&keywords=book+splitting

Although I sometimes find it hard to sit and focus on reading, this book is very structured and insightful. It was recommended to me, and I shall pass it on:

http://www.amazon.com/Rebuilding-Relationship-Books-Divorce-Beyond/dp/1886230692/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411816435&sr=8-1&keywords=rebuilding+when+your+relationship+ends

Read this book. Both of you.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1886230692/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Check out Splitting

Here's one:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0986472107/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This one really helped me through the worst parts of my divorce:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Journey-Abandonment-Healing-Relationship/dp/0425172287/ref=pd_sim_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0MKZHBKAZ2SHWF4EYWX6

She should really file those divorce papers, if anything, just for herself to move on, she can always stop the proceedings should he become mentally stable again. She cannot help him if he doesn't want to help himself, and of all things, she needs to help herself step out of this nightmare. Good luck to your sis.

Good to hear from you dinosaurs_r_awesome, I remember you from BPDLovedOnes
I've been going through a lot of the scenarios outlined in Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder I read that book early on after my separation and as a result I had some predictability for the crazy moves my ex pulled / is pulling in the divorce process. I'm not surprised or left "reeling" by her moves. I'm just disappointed that judges and lawyers allow combative tactics from my ex and do not rein her in. What I've been able to figure out is that family court judges and lawyers encourage "high conflict" out of self interest. Judges get more court dates / work out of it (fill out their future calendar) and lawyers get more money. I know that I will never get married again (no matter what, even if each future girlfriend I'll date leaves because I won't get hitched) I really don't mind growing old single. Marriage followed by a high conflict divorce allows a bunch of self-interested strangers (lawyers and judges) access to all your assets and future income. They drain you financially. Your kids don't go to college. Courts are chartered to protect the weak from the strong, yet it has been my experience that they do exactly the opposite. Lawyers and judges drain my financial resources which ends up affecting my kids' future. Just don't get married. Less liability, you have less chance of ending up bankrupt and on the street. The whole court system is shit, so is the legal institution of marriage.

How did he abuse you? This is a good book that helped me.

https://www.amazon.ca/Rebuilding-When-Your-Relationship-Ends/dp/1886230692

> I walk around on eggshells all the time.

That key phrase is important. You might be dealing with a borderline personality disorder spouse. I highly recommend you read the book Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care about Has Borderline Personality Disorder. If that resonates with you, then read the follow up book Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Forget dating until after divorce. You need time to heal, and rushing back into a relationship too soon will make you vulnerable to a predator.

As far as guilt goes, marriage takes two committed spouses. Those vows are not one sided. So stop feeling guilty you're the only one trying to uphold them.

1. Get this book https://www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Borderline-Narcissistic-Personality/dp/1608820254 read it, and follow the instructions
   
   
2. Get a lawyer who understands the behaviour patterns. My first one didn't and kept expecting XW to be reasonable. This failed. My new lawyer took one look at her communications, said "you will never, ever reason with this person" and has helped me get it to court asap. Mediation etc is fine for two normal people who are having difficulties communicating because they are dealing with the emotional fallout of a marriage ending. If one of those people has a PD, it's generally a total waste of time (unless you have a specialist mediator, I suppose).
   
   
3. Get a counsellor who has experience helping people recover from narcissistic abuse. The sooner you start seeing her the better.
   
   
4. Expect hell. Your STBX will lie, cheat, blame to a far greater extent once they know the game is up. But as Churchill said - if you're going through hell, keep going.
   
   
5. Take notes and evidence constantly. Cross reference things. N's are quite convincing liars on the surface, but they have trouble maintaining consistency . That's where you trip them up in conjunction with your lawyer
   
   
6. NEVER, EVER suggest to them or the court that they have a PD. That will go very badly for you. You're not qualified to make that diagnosis, and it may turn the court against you. Instead just focus on patterns of behaviour.
   
   
7. I found this book very useful - it's a book on philosophy which is great for dealing with situations where you have very little power. https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/0195374614
   
   
8. Get your family and friends and support network in place before you make your move. Warn them that your STBX may play the victim and try and manipulate them. My XW took to messaging and calling my business partner's wife constantly in an effort to turn him against me. It caused me some problems initially, but we have it sorted now.

No slap intended at all. My apologies that it was expressed that way.

It's just the process and the reality of it. In my experience, Family court doesn't care, the lawyers don't care, and unless there is photographic evidence someone is beating / abusing the children, the family court kind of dismisses these complaints about the other spouse as emotional background noise, so to speak.

Here's my peptalk for you:
If taking a bunch of raggedy OLD toys and clothes is all it costs to get her out of your house, don't think of it as money lost - then think of it as tuition for the education you are getting - she's teaching you how she will behave in the future. And when people tell show you who they are, believe them. You can look into getting NEW toys and clothes for the kids. Or make it a new activity, you and the kids check out garage sales on the weekends to get replacement toys.

Go for 50-50 shared joint and legal custody and don't accept anything less. The property division, who gets the microwave - it's all bullshit compared to your relationship with your kids. One bit of advice - don't ever move more than short distance away from where your kids are. Stay in their day-to-day lives. It's so super important.

Maybe others have had different experiences, but that's been mine. The higher earner gets screwed and the drama should hopefully all be ironed out within a few years.

At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, "Is this really worth the cost of what it's doing to me emotionally?"

She's angry, and taking it out on you by trying to grab all the cookies she can. You're absolutely right, the way she is behaving is childish, aggressive, petty, and only serves to make the situation much more hostile. She's wrong for doing that. She and her mother are equating objects and property with value. The kids are the most valuable thing here.

One of life's most basic laws is that every single act of generosity will multiply and return to you many times over. Her actions will have consequences - a good deed is a seed for future kindness; a bad deed is a landmine which will be brought up again and hurt others in the future. She's going to poison her relationship with the kids by these actions, kids aren't stupid.

It sounds like you have been dealing with the emotional rollercoaster for a while. I don't know your situation, but I'd like to suggest you check out the book: https://www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Borderline-Narcissistic-Personality/dp/1608820254 by Bill Eddy. He's a mediator and it's a fantastic book for explaining why people do the things they do during divorce. I think you'll recognize your ex in a lot of that book.

I completely and totally understand feeling like "WTF?!?! Attorney you're supposed to be fighting for me!!" Here's the reality - the more you want your attorney to fight, the more money they will be charging you and it's a never ending cycle. You can always make more money.

Good luck to you. I am sorry you're going through this. It's like being an emotional burn victim for a couple of years. You carry the scars with you, but you live to fight another day. Sorry for the novel. : )

Also divorcing a BPD woman. A few notes for you:

1. Do not talk to police, ever. She will accuse you of something so that she gets the tables tilted in her favor. Do not talk to the police. Don't admit anything, don't answer any questions, and if they call you on the phone, hang up.
   
2. Don't sign anything. Not from her, not from her lawyer. Don't agree to any concession, ever. She will use it to extract every dollar, every ounce of emotional energy, and every minute of parenting time from you and your kids.
   
3. Check the recording laws in your state. Record every conversation you have with her from here on out.
   
4. As soon as it is possible, move back into your marital home. it will be uncomfortable, but it will be a deciding factor in determining custody.
   
5. Get in touch with a Domestic Violence group and get a restraining order against her. It may be your first and best line of defense (and she will violate it, I promise).
   
   A BPD cannot cooperate. They must control, they must preserve conflict and must paint someone as an abuser so they appear as a victim. There is no medication for this. Only years of therapy will help, and BPD don't believe there is anything wrong with them so therapy is never a real option.
   
   Get ready to stay on the offensive. Your divorce may cost you an arm and a leg but you can not concede anything or you'll spend the rest of your life reeling backwards.
   
   Pick up a copy of Splitting and follow its advice to a T, even if it seems exaggerated or hokey. Good luck.