(Part 3) Best products from r/financialindependence

Qualifications: grew up in a very modest (i.e. lower) part of town, parents worked in blue-collar professions, and started buying a rental property in the 1960's, then dad passed away (with four kids). Now definitely intergenerational wealth, all kids went to college in STEM, parents in their 90's (step-dad helped build up RE holdings to 36 units) with holdings in the 8-figures. No I haven't inherited any of it (yet) but well into middle age myself, make very good money (and will leave it at that), and have a few RE holdings.

> I'll have manager experience. I'm also reading a book called "real estate investing for dummies" and I just finished "rich Dad poor Dad"

Good for you, I didn't start reading books on anything finance related until well into my 20's, and then I read a lot of very good books. I don't think much of Kiyosaki, frankly, but as Brian Tracy said 'to earn more you must learn more'. So don't stop, keep on reading, and especially books over blog posts and short pieces. Why? Books will have more complex ideas and more research to back it up.

Regarding your game plan: you did not indicate what you are interested in doing, and what you do well, and what people will pay you to do, and what the world needs. Take a look at this ikigai graphic. Not sure if you know that welding or sales is this for you, and of course there are other things you may grow into. But hey if you have a good idea that this is the path you want to take, good for you!

I came here to say about sales, few salespeople are on Reddit, they are very busy making lots of money to talk about it. In my own (technical) sales field base runs from $65K up to $120K with another 40% commission, but you need to have the right background (STEM college degree, experience as a customer, and aptitude for outside sales) so barriers to entry are high. So yes, six figures in your late 20's is achievable, and it does take a lot of hard work, no doubt!

Of course owning your own business as a contractor, or becoming a top welder, or tons of other things you could do, I know of plenty of people who do very well.

Regarding the end goal, admirable, and I say your thinking is in the right place. The road to FI is varied - real estate is a very good method (the way my parents went, they bought low and held onto their properties in a HCOL area), investing into index funds another good method (again read books like Boglehead's Guide to Investing, or another favorite of mine on the sidebar called The Richest Man in Babylon) The amount these books can make you over five or ten years is a lot. Over 15 or 25 years is huge.

> Even if I don't get to enjoy it

I see many piling on here saying 'you should enjoy it' but I didn't interpret this comment in that way. You realize it's a road not many take (too many live way beyond their means, and don't have savings / passive income / true wealth to show for it). Yes there's sacrifice, and it takes a long time to build up $1,500 in monthly passive income much less $15,000, but people do this and often you cannot tell. (For example, look up the book The Millionaire Next Door.)

Are you on the right path? Definitely YES. The path to financial independence starts with a mindset, and the fact you are asking the question puts you out in front of all the peers of yours who are thinking about lots of other things, which you know all too well.

Will you make mistakes along the way? Of course, we are all human. The important thing is mindset, and the great thing of being younger is that you have time to make other choices, and learn along the way.

Yeah, we're slaves. We live in a society that encourages self-enslavement via debt. It's a shitty life, spending all day inside and creating nothing of real value to anyone.

I have 10 more years or so. I look at them as an investment into myself. 10 years of slavery for 100 years of freedom. How old are you? Snake People are likely to live for a pretty long time (ignoring the possibility of global warming-related catastrophes and assuming you take good care of yourself).

> How did we get this way?

We are owned. Bought, sold, and bet like cattle. We are fed "food" filled and coated with chemicals and hormones that change our brain chemistry. We drink water that has dangerous chemicals in it. The air is poisoned, too. We're distracted and divided with fake news about nonsense. We got here by allowing other people to make decisions for us. Financial Independence is a way of taking control of our own lives. Keeping the goal in mind is very important to staying the course.

I don't know if this is more helpful or harmful to you, but it's the truth. Knowing the truth has a price. It changes you. You will find yourself more and more separate from those who are willing slaves.

My advice: find people you love, hug them a lot, and do a lot of wandering and talking. Work out a lot. Be a strong person. Read lots of great books. I recommend

A Guide to the Good Life

Island, by Aldous Huxley

DMT: The Spirit Molecule

> that random stock algos can beat pros. That just doesn't seem right.

It makes sense if you look at investing as a game of chance rather than a game of skill. It's not like darts, it's like roulette. There's just too much randomness involved in the game to win when betting on single numbers/stocks.

Maybe you keep track of the table operators and realize that Joe lands mostly on low, even numbers, and hey! -- Jane has hit 21 red three times in the last quarter. And if she set up the wheel in the exact same position and launched the ball in the exact same way as those last three times you'd be a winner for betting on 21 red. But she won't, because she can't, even if she tries to. Someone sneezed nearby, there was an earthquake, her fingers are a little oily. There's just too much interference in the real world.

However, there is a winning strategy. Turns out betting (variable amounts) on all options wins you enough to keep playing. A little more, a little less, but the longer you play the better your prospects.

For another interesting book about a walk, see The Drunkard's Walk by Leonard Mlodinow.

This is exactly the situation that many people retire into. I'm talking about the so-called normal retirement, where people have spent the majority of their lives working and putzing around, eventually getting old enough to be pushed into retirement by health or unemployment.

So when you do actually retire, you have a huge existential crisis. You're just having it early.

You need to figure out what you can do that fulfills you, that provides a purpose for you. It can be just about anything, from painting to rescuing dogs to beginning a multimillion dollar company. The only requirement is that it needs to be something that you find needed and valuable, and fun. Often that means doing something to make other people (or animals or trees, whatever) lives better. Something outside yourself.

A good place to start is [How to retire happy, wild, and free] (https://www.amazon.com/How-Retire-Happy-Wild-Free/dp/096941949X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1479804347&sr=1-2&keywords=Retirement). I've found this to be a good guide to figuring out what you do want, instead of what you don't want, and FIRE just makes it happen quicker.

One of the bigs keys is personal relationships. A partner in life, friends, co-workers, community. You need to build that network in the same way to build a professional network--by doing things toward a common cause. It takes time and it takes effort. Just start. You don't have to get it right the first time. Just keep trying things until you find some you want to do again, and eventually you'll find your way into a direction that fills your needs.

My opinion on a holding individual bonds, is that I would only do it if: a. I wanted to provide myself near guaranteed cash flows (via a bond ladder) or b. had significant amounts (hundreds of thousands to millions) to invest in bonds.

If you know you will need money at a certain date in the future, individual bond purchases (ie: treasury direct) or CDs could be useful. The bond fund's price will fluctuate greatly with changes in rates, so you bear some risk of the price being low when you want your cash. This is the risk/benefit to weigh. I am not concerned about this as my emergency fund at LMCU gets 3% interest and would cover about 6 month of expenses. I also hold roughly 6 months of expenses in precious metals. I view PMs as currency diversification, not as an investment. I like diversification, so I hold my emergency fund in USD and PMs. My bond allocation is entirely through VBTLX currently. Consider tax efficiency of how you hold your bonds.

Rick Ferri has a book All about asset allocation that covers the concept of reducing volatility leading to higher long-term returns. It is a little less deep/technical than Bernstein.

Bernstein has a series I really enjoyed call "Investing for Adults". Rational Expectations (Book 4) covers the volatility/return relationship. He can get a bit technical this series, but I think it is worth reading if you are going to do your own financial planning. (Note: I am also a nerd and enjoy reading about these topics). Four Pillars was also a great read.

It's amazing that your wife is also capable of pulling in a 6-figure salary - your extraordinary combined income of nearly $300k/yr could go a long way to powering through any inefficiencies in your plan.

You sound like you will do wonderfully accomplishing the American dream: big house in the best school district, little non-mortgage debt, well-educated kids, and eventually a really comfortable retirement with all that equity and tax-sheltered retirement accounts. This a goal few are able to achieve, and by having such a large income - you're well-situated for it.

The typical American Dream works against financial independence though. You're fortunate that your extraordinary combined income will help power through it. However, you're probably going to be on the work treadmill longer than most here who strive for early retirement, just because your expenses will still be quite significant.

That all being said, I recommend this book: Set for Life, by Scott Trench. https://www.amazon.com/Set-Life-Dominate-American-Dream/dp/0997584718. It helps explain why retirement accounts, while wonderful to reduce your taxable income and allow money to grow for you tax-free: actively works against retiring early. The goal of FIRE is to live off capital income well before you're potentially too old to enjoy it. This means all of your labor income generated while young should be going to accounts that generate capital returns that you can realize before your 59.5 years old.

Assume marginal market returns, I anticipate living off a 2% dividend per year, while the capital appreciation grows by 3% (after inflation). My projections show that I'll likely have grown the account to a few million by the time I hit 60. Having another 500k come in from a 401k will be nice for sure, but not worth the extra 2-4 years of work years needed because I was not investing the (albeit smaller) after-tax amount directly into my portfolio.

As for the 5-9 year swing: I'm naturally cautious. I anticipate if I wait 9 years, it's because the market took a shit, or I wanted to build a buffer or slush fund of several hundred thousand.

I do the same, though I have this Wahl version. Your version is also quite a bit less expensive on Amazon, for anyone who cares.

But yeah, I've been cutting my hair for over 10 years now. If you're a guy with short hair I think it's a no-brainer. Super easy, super fast, and cheap. Over 10 years this has definitely amounted to thousands of dollars, and also allows me to have a nice hair cut length all the time (rather than have a couple weeks where I'm like "ehh...I should make time for a cut soon").

I would read If you can, how Millenials Can Get Rich Slowly. Its short (like twenty pages) and gives you the basics of investing, and has a reading list of other books. The electronic version is free, so don't pay for it.

The market as a whole tends to go up because people keep getting better at doing things (productivity increasing), although it is definitely not monotonically increasing. And since corporate profits will inflate right along with currency, they tend to keep their value in the face of inflation.

The other thing to realize is, what else are you going to put your money into? In a savings account, inflation will slowly evaporate it. Real estate prices also fluctuate.

I'd like to see those numbers. There is no way they cost that much. I'd recommend your read Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids.

Most money spent on kids is wasteful signalling. To get politically incorrect, every study we have on enrichment programs, the importance of teachers, any of the other expensive nonsense people spend on children, shows that intelligence (yes we can measure intelligence, no I do not want to get into an argument about it) and grit are mostly genetic.

This is freeing, as it means you are not obligated to waste you money and time ferrying you children around to various enrichment activities or fighting tooth-and-nail for the best school districts. Things will work our however they are going to work out.

In terms of life outcomes, almost all your important influence on your children will happen at conception.

Feed them, love them, teach them to read and do some math. This should not cost you 1 million dollars a kid.

And you are not obligated to pay for college. If college costs are putting you off having kids think about it this way: will your future kids prefer to not exist or to get student loans?

>Just to add to this things to consider before solar.
>
>1. Getting an energy audit.
>
>2. Adding insulation based on energy audit results.
>
>3. Do you live in a place like CA coast or desert? If so, consider adding a gray water system and or rain water collection system. * You live in the deep south so this might not be applicable to you.
>
>4. Read the Energy and Civilization by Vaclav Smil. https://www.amazon.com/Energy-Civilization-History-MIT-Press/dp/0262035774
5. Install solar. It will be awesome for you to drive a car on energy you produced on your house.

I feel exactly how you feel...sick of the monotony, stuck in the 9 - 5 rat race, cubicle nightmare (if you work in Corporate America you will understand where I am coming from). These feelings of alienation have been bubbling for a while until I started to take them serious and try to understand where they were coming from. When you're a kid you have an endless imagination and optimism for the future...but for whatever reason you lose it as you get older, and become brainwashed by our society/culture. However, as deep into this madness as I am, at least I am now aware it exists and I am trying to claw my way out and back to a place of freedom. Some things I have started to look at are:

• creativity, I have ignored this part of my life for so long. Just start making stuff...r/artfundamentals and r/learnprogramming
  
  
• exercise more, run, train for a marathon, lift weights (5x5), anything really to just get the blood flowing. Also, r/EOOD helps (exercise out of depression)
  
  
• have you considered starting a small business?
  
  Start looking within yourself. Eckhartt Tolle had an awesome special on Oprah discussing these very issues you are bringing up - you can watch the series Eckhart Tolle - a New Earth, based in his book A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose .
  

Ric Edelman's "The Truth About Money" is a great introduction.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Truth-About-Money-Edition/dp/0062006487

Some of his other books offer not-so-good advice so stick with just this one. :-)

The TL;DR of investing:

Stocks: You buy part of a company which has been sold to the public.

Bonds: You lend money to someone and they pay you interest

Mutual Funds: Someone else buys a mix of the above so you don't have to deal with the complexities of doing so, bundles them together, and sells you parts of the bundle like a stock.

Brokerage: A company where you open an account to buy and sell the above. They take your money and let you buy stocks/bonds with it. For a fee, of course. :-)

But can you keep a boyfriend or girlfriend with that set up? You should definitely buy a $100 bed frame off amazon, I love mine. Check out the Zinus brand. I mean a decent bed seems like a very important piece of life..

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071CLSZ9R/ref=twister_B07D1581L3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

If you like flannel in the winter these are AMAZING. Never pill or get scratchy like other flannel. It's like falling asleep being cuddled by a teddy bear. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007M6G568/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Yep, one of these: Luxe Bidet Neo 120 - Self Cleaning Nozzle - Fresh Water Non-Electric Mechanical Bidet Toilet Attachment (blue and white) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A0RHSJO/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_bG-pxbS22AFDZ

Works great!

Get a bidet! I highly recommend one, makes everything sparkly clean, and helps toilet paper purchases go further.

Luxe Bidet Neo 120 - Self Cleaning Nozzle - Fresh Water Non-Electric Mechanical Bide... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A0RHSJO/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_8ItEzb3V8KM6Y

I am starting to sell t-shirts with unique designs I have made, based on places I have been or places I love. I so far only have one design (of the Eiffel Tower in Paris) but am planning on making more soon.

It would be great if you could check it out and/or give feedback or even possibly purchase one if you so choose. I have been thinking about doing this for a while and I have finally gone out and done it.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08224NCRC

Here's a book you should consider reading, Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids. I wish I'd read it 20 years ago, and I'd probably have a couple more than I have.

But yes, it can be done. I've got four kids, and am in really good shape.

I got the Richest Man in Babylon! by George S. Clason out of college It was published in 1926 and is still great advice. There is also a free audio version here!. The book is written very differently than most personal finance books. The author uses parables to teach financial lessons. This makes it a great introduction for the financial newbie. The part that most stuck with me is:

"“A part of all you earn is yours to keep. It should be not less than a tenth no matter how little you earn. It can be as much more as you can afford. Pay yourself first. Do not buy from the clothes-maker and the sandal-maker more than you can pay out of the rest and still have enough for food and charity and penance to the gods."

I joined the Peace Corps after college so I didn't get around to implementing Mr. Clason's advice. For some reason, over the three year period I was out of the US, his advice changed in my memory to three-tenths. So since I got my first full-time professional job at 27, I have been aiming to save 30% of income. I haven't always met this goal but I have averaged saving at least 20% of my gross income.

This past May, I read Your Money or Your Life: 9 Steps to Transforming Your Relationship with Money and Achieving Financial Independence! which introduced me to FIRE. While I'm a little sad about the 6 years, I wasn't saving for FIRE, the savings I accumulated is a great start. The approach in this book has been very useful in figuring out what I am willing to give up in order to increase my SR and achieve FIRE sooner.

Edit: fixed hyperlink

I'm going to recommend to you my favorite pop-science book on the psychology of personal finance: Mind Over Money by Klontz. The first half of it will be especially useful. (Here's a PDF summary as part of an advertisement for the book.)

Please do your research as there are many experts who make various claims.

We are just amateurs here on /r/FI and are not professional investment advisors in any sense.

Topics to explore are index funds versus actively managed funds, expense ratios and its effects on performance. I recommend this book, The Truth About Money, by Ric Edelman

https://www.amazon.com/Truth-About-Money-4th/dp/0062006487

Yep. Just bought myself a pair of Sennheiser HD 650's, and it was well worth it. Got a Schiit DAC and AMP to go with them.

HD 650's: https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-650-Professional-Headphone/dp/B00018MSNI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1537505538&sr=8-2&keywords=sennheiser+hd650

​

Schiit DAC: http://www.schiit.com/products/modi-2

Schiit AMP: http://www.schiit.com/products/magni-3

​

Now, back to the VTSAX!

​

Edit: Hah, looks like they released the Modi 3 in the past couple of days. The web site has been redone a bit as well, so the above links no longer go to the products. Try these links instead:

​

Schiit DAC: http://www.schiit.com/products/modi-1

Schiit AMP: http://www.schiit.com/products/magni-1

If you've got the time, read "Mind Over Money" by Brad and Ted Klontz. It addresses this specifically and can help you identify your issues and adjust your habits through anecdotes, as well as exercises. It's incredibly helpful!

> Even this seems a bit too aggressive for my taste

Your job for the next month or three is to become a sponge for financial knowledge. Even though you have a CPA and a CFP, in order for you to feel comfortable with their decisions with your money, you need to have some amount of knowledge with finance.

Read:

• jlcollinsnh's stock series
  
• about the Trinity Study
  
• perhaps read The Millionaire Next Door
  
• A Random Walk Down Wall Street
  
• The Intelligent Investor
  
  After all that, you should feel much better about both your withdrawal rate and how aggressive your portfolio will be.

I think you have the financial part down. You shouldn't worry about the money as much as the what are you going to do with yourself after retirement. I'm currently reading a couple of books that address the subject of life after retirement that have been helpful for me.

• How to Retire Happy, Wild, and Free
  
• The New Retirementality

From this sub's recommended reading list: A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0040JHNQG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_v6.SCbARK8ZNG

I got this one which seems to work pretty well. Seems solid.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JNQSIQ/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687702&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0026IBSVE&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0K82ZNDVNQFW3G6RGPP5

I think behavior risk may be the greatest hurdle in one's quest for FI. People want your money really badly and they'll do things like try to convince you to finance a car or mortgage a house thats 30 minutes from work, and those just aren't good strategies for someone who is striving for FI.

Reading MMM, ERE, BogleHeads, and Raptitude helps keep me focused and motivated. Also, books by William J. Bernstein. They're really booklets more than books as they're concise but chock-full of information relevant to younger people on their path to FI. He has one specifically for millenials: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JCC5JKI/ref=docs-os-doi_0

I recommend reading Rick Ferri's All About Asset Allocation.

Take 5% of your money and try something else but I advise you to read the Intelligent Investor first. Benjamin Graham has been right for the past century and will be right for this one too. I add individual stocks during market downturns but keep 90% of my money in index funds.

https://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-Investor-Definitive-Investing-Essentials/dp/0060555661

How passive do you expect this to be? As you are researching this and start considering your criteria look at ways that reduce the work on your part. If you want this to be passive income you don't want to be fixing toilets and painting units on evenings and weekends.

You will still need to manage the team that you put in place to do those tasks.

Check out Set for Life by Scott Trench

How deep down the rabbit hole do you want to go? Buffett himself would recommend you index. But, if you must, start with Ben Graham and move on to learning accounting and then start with Buffett's annual letters.

I would recommend Set For Life by Scott Trench for some ideas. I wish that book was around when I was 19.

I also recommend Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki, but the majority of people here hate it. I find Robert to be pretty shady in real life too, but the overall theme of that book changed my life!

https://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-Investor-Definitive-Investing-Essentials/dp/0060555661

https://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-Investor-Definitive-Investing-Essentials/dp/0060555661

If you're looking for actual investing, this one is the gold standard. Preface by Warren Buffett.

It really depends on your goals for which book is appropriate. Dave Ramsey, for example, is great for people who need to get out of debt, but I think he's absolutely terrible for investment opinions. Motley Fool is actually a decent one for investors.

Keep in mind that anyone giving tips on specific stocks will be wrong quite often, even if they're the best in the business. What you want to learn are the fundamentals.