Reddit mentions of The Ri-me Philosophy of Jamgon Kongtrul the Great: A Study of the Buddhist Lineages of Tibet

> Did you read that properly? Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso Rinpoche, like other Shentongpas, believes that the Essence isn't essenceless.

I was giving the Dzogchen perspective of what shentong is referring to. This is a Dzogchen forum, after all.

Do you know any Dzogchenpas who actually subvert the Dzogchen view to shentong view? I am not aware of any.

I know Jamgon Kongtrul was a proponent of shentong, but he did not subvert the Dzogchen view to the shentong posiiton. He basically thought shentong was a useful perspective to point people in the right direction with less chance of being misunderstood. But, he still considered Dzogchen the highest view. I've yet to see anyone write about Dzogchen who disagrees with that... I'm sure there are plenty of teachers from various traditions who don't think Dzogchen is correct (Theravada comes to mind), but they're probably not writing about Dzogchen much... and we're not concerned with them, right?

So, then, does Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso Rinpoche not think Dzogchen is the highest view? I think he does. Therefore, we can deduce his view of shentong is similar to Kongtrul's.

Why?

The basic difference is that shentong sounds like one is beginning to understand Dzogchen view, but is apparently at odds with the whole of Buddhism; then the Dzogchen explanation makes more sense out of what shentong is trying to communicate, especially in relation to the rest of the Buddhist teachings. But, if you don’t understand Dzogchen view, then shentong would be helpful, I guess. Kongtrul seemed to think so, anyway. This particular distinction of shentong vs Dzogchen view highlights the problem with words to describe the situation, as mentioned in the above linked page from this book.