(Part 2) Reddit mentions: The best england history books

I've just finished The Windup Girl, which I had been putting off for some time. It was, quite simply, the most astounding and breath-taking science fiction book I've ever read. I loved it.

However, my problem is that I buy books compulsively. Mostly hard copies, but recently I bought a Kindle and buy the odd e-book or two. I have literally hundreds of books on my "to read" list.

One near the top is A Place of Greater Safety by Hilary Mantel. I recently read her phenomenal Wolf Hall and was blown away by her skills as a story teller. I'm a bit of an armchair historian, and I'm particularly interested in the French Revolution (amongst other things), so I'm very excited by the prospects this book holds. If it's anything like Wolf Hall then I'm in for a very particular treat.

Also near the top lies Quantum - Einstein, Bohr, and the Great Debate about the Nature of Reality, Manjit Kumar's much lauded recent history of the emergence of quantum mechanics. I very much enjoyed other tangentially related books on this topic, including the wonderful The Making of the Atomic Bomb and The Fly in the Cathedral, so this should be good fun and educational to boot.

Having read and loved Everitt's biography of Cicero, I'm very much looking forward to his biographies of Augustus and Hadrian.

I'm listening to an audio-book version of The Count of Monte Cristo on my iPod, which I find rather enjoyable. I've only got through the first half dozen chapters and it's already taken a few hours, so this looks to be a nice, long-term and periodic treat for when I have time alone in the car.

Cronin's The Passage keeps piquing my interest, but I was foolish enough to buy it in that lamentable format, the much cursed "trade paperback", so the thing is a behemoth. The size puts me off. I wish I had waited for a regular paper-back edition. As it is, it sits there on my bookshelf, flanked by the collected works of Alan Furst (what a wonderfully evocative writer of WWII espionage!!) and a bunch of much recommended, but as yet unread, fantasy including The Darkness that Comes Before by Bakker, The Name of the Wind by Rothfuss and Physiognomy by Ford.

Books I have ordered and am eagerly awaiting, and which shall go straight to the top of the TBR list (no doubt to be replaced by next month's purchases) include Orlando Figes's highly regarded history of The Crimean War, Rosen's history of steam The Most Powerful Idea in the World and Stacy Schiff's contentious biography of Cleopatra.

A bit of a mixed bunch, all up, I'd say.

I didn't "shift" to anything. My commentary didn't take sides. I'm not "celebrating" anything either. I was agreeing with those claiming that India is dying. Read carefully.

I'm a patient man, but i'm not an educator. What i can do, is give you a few resources. If you want to learn about western foreign policy, feel free to read through the following books.

1. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0099448394/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0
   
   
2. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Untold-History-United-States/dp/0091949319/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=The+Untold+History+of+the+United+States&qid=1558296787&s=books&sr=1-1
   
   
3. https://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Rulers-World-John-Pilger/dp/1784782114/ref=sr_1_1?crid=210IY0X9YH7V5&keywords=the+new+rulers+of+the+world&qid=1558296932&s=books&sprefix=the+new+rulers+of+%2Cstripbooks%2C376&sr=1-1
   
   
4. https://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Thieves-Secrets-Shaping-Modern/dp/1846275857/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=The+History+Thieves%3A+Secrets%2C+Lies+and+the+Shaping+of+a+Modern+Nation&qid=1558297078&s=books&sr=1-1-fkmrnull
   
   They present a different perspective on western governments. I don't completely agree with their moral orientation, but they gave me a more balanced view of the world.
   
   Lastly, let me give you some advice. I'm only saying this because I like you. I like seeing young people getting involved in politics and holding strong opinions. I prefer a population of opinionated youth than politically apathetic youth. You're setting a good example. I actually like the Aam Aadmi Party.
   
   On the other hand, if you want to move further in the world of political debate - and i'm sure you will - you have to learn a few basic rules along the way. When you're talking to adults - in real life - you can't block them, you can't ban them, and you definitely can't label them as '< >' and then act like you won the argument. You have to convince them why you're right. And in order to convince others, you have to understand their point of view, instead of instinctively dismissing it.
   
   The strength of one's ideas isn't known until they're confronted with disagreement. You have to learn how to see the other side. You also have to learn how to disagree. If you don't learn this, you'll fail. All the seniors at NDTV, Ravish Kumar, Prannoy Roy, etc. are good at their jobs because they know what's being said on the other side of the fence. I'm sure they'll give you the same advice. I'm sure you don't wanna read scripts off a prompter for your entire career.
   
   BTW, i'm open to any debate. If you'd like to debate the question of whether democracy and secularism is most conducive to Indian prosperity, feel free to get me on skype, we can work something out. My only rule is that we speak English. Let me know if you're interested.

I dont know if this fits the requirements here, but I would like a few book recommendations concerning the following:

A. European medieval history. Of course I understand it is an immense subject but consider me a layman who 30 years after school history (and being Greek, our history books were mainly focused on greek or byzantine history) wants to read something accessible to people-who-are-not-historians-but-read-a-lot that covers the fundamentals and maybe goes a bit further. Something like this maybe. (If this is a solid recommendation, say it, I was just browsing for relevant books)

B. Move to the other side and recommend books on the history of the U.S. I *think* I am more interested in colonial times and up to the revolution. Multiple books concerning each period are welcome. Of course general recommendations are welcome too.

Something about the reader's tastes so that I can maybe make your choices easier: Apart from the big pictures I like the every-day-life details and "anecdotes". You know what I remember fondly as a kid? The yellow pages in the printed version of "Once upon a time..man" where it was pointed out why knives began having rounded points, how many toilets where in Versailles (:D) why people in England drive at the left side of the road, how a medieval paesant spent his day etc. Yes, I have read history books since then, but I always like books organised and written in a less academic style (but still, scientifically solid). If you cant think of something that is solid scientifically but a bit "lighter", then go on, hit me hard .

Thanks a lot for even reading this rant, sorry for the long post. :D

I suspect these have been mentioned in prior threads here and at /r/anarchism but here are some I believe to be "good" scholarship.

Avrich's academic study. Avrich was a respected historian. Unfortunately there is copyright getting in the way of a direct link to the text, but it may be accessible somewhere online.
https://www.amazon.com/Kronstadt-1921-Princeton-Legacy-Library/dp/069100868X

Avrich goes through the various allegations that bourgeois sources influenced or financed Kronstadt.

The articles by Ted Grant etc in part refer to documents released since Avrich's book. I'm not an expert on this, but imho the article by Grant (discussed above) is not convincing at all, and merely tries to shore up Trotsky's reputation.

For a source-based rebuttal of Grant and other recent Trotskyist takes on Kronstadt, see the Anarchist Faq. I realize that for many people the Anarchist Faq comes off as extremely sectarian, but imho (as a non-anarchist who agrees with Trotskyists more than anarchists on some issues) the AnFaq editorial collective's scholarship is very good and the editors possess admirable intellectual integrity. Even if I don't necessarily agree with their conclusions or emphasis or even logic, I would argue the AnFaq hardly ever misrepresents facts.

http://www.infoshop.org/AnarchistFAQAppendix42

You want to read the whole thing, but see in particular sections 12-14, which deal directly with contemporary Trotskyists claims.

How do you know for sure who is telling the truth? Questions like this are why the discipline of history exists and why there are professional historians. To discover the truth, one must do as they do. Investigate the sources that AnFaq is citing and judge for yourself whether they are trustworthy, honest, and/or credible.

Bugger. You stole my suggestion. OP, read this book. It is great.

On a simliar bent but obviously inferior, I'd recommend The Dictator's Handbook which covers more of a political science approach, and will make you reconsider 'stupid' political actions and Freakonomics which covers economics and unintended consequences.

However, the recommendation I'm going to make, in line with my flair, is The Lion and the Unicorn, a dual biography of the greatest political rivalry in British politics, between William Gladstone (the intellectual champion of classical liberalism) and Benjimin Disraeli (the cynical strategist who created the modern conservative party and massively expanded the franchise.

On the face of it, a book about 19th century British prime ministers might not be what you immediately thought of, but it has everything. Parties being created, and destroyed. Idealism against strategy, moral outrage against cynicism, Imperialism and foreign interventions against liberal internationalism, where a candidate elected on a ticket of anti-imperialism inadvertantly triggered the largest colonial expansion in world history. It covers how British politics was created, and the strategies and ideologies that were perfect then remain in place to this day, with Neoliberalism, Globalisation and 'One Nation' effectively a bastardisation of Gladstone's economic policies, Free Trade vs Imperial Preference debates, and the original One Nation Conservatism championed by Disraeli allying the industrious elite with the upper working class populace against the liberal elite (remind you of anything...)

Are you trying to write a novel? Because it sounds like you're trying to write a novel.

What it feels like to live in Inverness...is the same as it feels to live in any other 21st century large town/small city. Except with 5x more tourists. I really don't know what you're hoping to hear, but honestly, it's probably not much different to where you live now.

I can say that with a fair degree of certainty, because I moved from the US to Scotland several years ago myself.

It's just not that different. Sorry to burst your bubble.

But while I'm at it, I may as well piss on your parade too, and tell you that there's no way that, as a plumber, you're ever going to get a visa to settle in the UK. It just doesn't work that way, and it doesn't matter how much history and culture you've absorbed.

But, if you're still wanting to absorb it, I'd recommend Scotland:
The Story of a Nation and The Scottish Nation: A Modern History as good overviews to start with.

If you're then wanting to drill down into particular periods, Edinburgh University Press has a series, New History of Scotland, which includes a number of books on specific eras/topics.

For Highland-specific history, the one everyone has read is John Prebble's The Highland Clearances, but of course there are others.

In general, just avoid anything by Neil Oliver.

Eh, I don't know about pen-pals, but you could certainly chat with folks over on r/scotland.

With English history, I would start with the Romans. The "very short introduction" books have shown up in my old reading lists on multiple occasions at university.



I would then move on to the vikings. Again look at "a very short introduction". I would also look at "The Viking World". This is the textbook I used at Uni.


(Now we get to medieval England, my favourite) Look at the history of the medieval church christianity was central to medieval life. Look at the Black Death King Death: The Black Death and its Aftermath in Late-Medieval England, it is one of my favourite books of all time and an absolute pleasure to read. This book is a very good overview of medieval Europe This book is also a very good, but brief, introduction. I would read that one before the other one.


The Hundred Years war is an important part of English and French history. The Hundred Years War is a good brief book.



Now we get to the War of the Roses (if you like game of thrones, this is what it is based on). Hicks, M. A., The war of the Roses (2003). He wrote another longer book in 2010. Both are very good, but the 2003 book is much much smaller.


I never studied the Tudors or Stuarts at uni but I am sure someone else would be able to direct you to good books. When buying books look for "University Press" books. They are written buy lecturers and professors, world leaders in their field.


The Empire Project is a very good book, but not as small as the others I have suggested (well, except for the viking age one).


Don't be disheartened by the amount of books I have suggested, I promise the majority are tiny and pictures do take up a lot of room. If you were to combine them, they probably would be as many words as 2 big books. Wait for the books to become cheap or call up a university second hand book shop to see if they have them in stock. Again I highly recommend the "a very short introduction" books if you want to get to know an area of history without making the commitment of buying larger more expensive books. If you want my old reading lists I can send them too you if you PM me.

One of my favorite books of the history of science in general: A Social History of Truth: Civility and Science in Seventeenth-Century England by Steven Shapin. It's an excellent read about the establishment of the empirical authority of experimental science and the Royal Society, through the figure of Robert Boyle. The book is as much about epistemological questions as it is about historical ones, and builds a really convincing case for how knowledge is inherently social. I honestly found it really engrossing.

Leviathan and the Air-Pump, from the same author with Simon Schaeffer, is the more famous book - it's considered a seminal text in the history of science and in science & technology studies (STS). It similarly focuses on Boyle, but counterposes him with Thomas Hobbes, and is about how the philosophical grounding of modern science came to be.

Pamela Smith's The Body of the Artisan: Art and Experience in the Scientific Revolution is also a great work about the ways that science emerged from and interacted with art and artisans' work and insights.

Not really related, but I always found it interesting that Virginia got its name by virtue of an English attempt to inspire settlers to move to the territory by invoking the image of a "young virgin awaiting the loss of her maidenhead".

Source- https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-British-Empire/dp/031216985X

Tim Pat Coogan is a good start https://www.amazon.co.uk/Troubles-Irelands-Ordeal-1966-1996-Search/dp/1570981442. He's written an accessible series of books about the troubles and modern Irish history

This old site is good if you want to trawl through lots of data.

The BBC used to have a great section for the troubles, but they updated the site and left a lot out. It's still pretty good, just not as good as it once was http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/troubles

I think you need to read my first and last paragraphs again. We're talking degrees here and getting caught up in modern sensibilities of "cleanliness." The observation that other cultures bathed more frequently is a non sequitur when we're talking about the frequently-propagated myth that people in medieval Europe did not bathe. That's like saying no one at all in the United States watches soccer because a larger proportion of the population of Portugal are avid fans.

I can do a whole link-dump if you like, but for starters a simple Google search can get you started: here, here, and here are some examples (the last one includes some info on German public bath houses). Heck, here's a fourth.
Additionally, take a trip down to your local bookstore or library to look at practically any book on medieval life and culture and you'll find every. single. author. stating in no uncertain terms that medieval people did bathe. Many even specifically call out this myth. Here's one of many.

But again: its all relative. Lacking modern sensibilities of rapid and efficient sewage disposal and clean water dispersal, it was--by our modern standards--something akin to the third-world. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY DID NOT BATHE!

We also have period sources from morality-obsessed church men castigating the "common people" for indulging in the public baths too much (largely because in many places--London for example, which had no fewer than 15 public bathhouses in the 14th century and public criers to announce when the water was hot--sometimes doubled as brothels).

Furthermore:

1. "Bathing" /= "nude", at least it does not require it. Monks were expected to bathe in their undergarments, for example.
   
   
2. Nudity taboos are variable from time and culture, and judging from copious illuminations from manuscripts, people were nude on occasion--especially when bathing. We know from period sources that people DID go naked. Male nudity was more accepted than female nudity, sure, but even so sleeping in the nude was common, even in shared inns and guest houses. So, I'm sorry, but "No one was naked because of a strong effect of Christian religion" is as much false then as it is today.
   
   
3. Bath /= "clean". Bathing is one part of hygiene, and you can keep clean and hygienic without complete immersion in a tub of water; just ask any avid backpacker.
   
   
4. When looking at the past, we have to get over our modern sensibilities. Interestingly, many dermatologists recently have started saying that we Westerners probably bathe too often and that daily washings are unnecessary and can strip our skin of its protective oils and the "horny layer". Got bad acne? Could be your own fault for washing your face too often.
   
   tl;dr: Though they didn't bathe as much as we did today, not only did medieval people bathe, they bathed more than their Enlightenment-era descendants.

The Middle Ages

by Morris Bishop

It's a nice, pleasantly readable introductory work. (I had to think for a while to come up with something in my collection that wasn't out of print, dryly written, in German, or extremely niche. This should be a good read for anyone.)

1066 by David Howarth. It's short, it's sweet, and it's about my favorite battle in history! He really tells a compelling and interesting narrative.

There was one written very recently in fact, by noted early medieval historian Guy Halsall, called Worlds of Arthur.

It is probably one of the best and most accessible histories out there of dark age england, if not for any other reason than he is able to efficiently and ruthlessly quash the rampant speculation and frankly outright imaginative fabrications of many popular pseudo-historians.

A great book for a breakdown of the era and the mythology of the "historical" king arthur. Less so for someone looking to have their fantasies stroked.

If you want to not pay for the book, I can sum up his thesis as "there is nothing meaningful we can say about a historical King Arthur, because a critical reading of the available history can't even verify his existence on the most cursory of levels."

But this is of course, for history, and not mythology. There is a lot of good work being done on the mythology, but this is unfortunately out of my realm of knowledge.

The mi5 wasn't around when the empire was.

This is a great read about the empire by Lawrence James just if anyone is interested in history.

I would go as far as to say the whole british empire was counting peanuts compared to the US Empire.

And they should have learned from mi6 not mi5 if they want to deal with foreigners. They could share some knowledge on economical warfare.

If you are interested in Victorian life, I highly reccommend the book Inside the Victorian Home. I picked it up from the library a few years ago and it was marvelous.

I believe there was something in there about the "sensible underwear movement"? Women trying to suggest that less than 7 pounds(!) of undergarments was enough.

> So what you're saying is

Yep, pretty much exactly that.


I suspect corset ribbon would be possibly a little thin, at least going by most of the ones I've known, I originally used to bind up just with cord, but it leaves an impression in the leather, that can be seen through the outer when its really thin. the widest ribbon you can get easily is probably the way to go, so it spreads the tension over the whole thing, and that prevents marking.


for long sheaths, generally the liner either goes up to about 1/4inch / 6mm from the top, and the outer face rolled round, or they both go up all the way... the finishing is a bit of a debate - some the outer is skived and rolled, some the two are the same, and sewn together with a stitch to hold them together. I'm not sure there's a universal standard though.


some of the originals, by the way, have little cubes of leather underneath for raising, to make bumps.


though they're medieval, the principles are the same, and this book's excellent: (so many ideas!)
https://www.amazon.com/Knives-Scabbards-Medieval-Excavations-London/dp/1843833530


thoroughly recommend it.


For earlier period, 10-12th C, when most sheaths are single-layer, there's also this report from the York excavations:


https://www.yorkarchaeology.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/AY17-16-Leather-and-leatherworking.pdf


those two should keep you busy for a while (between trying to wrangle the argumentative horses!)

Book I have heard good things about on the subject. Hopefully, I will get a chance to read it soon.

https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Affairs-Britains-Collusion-Radical/dp/1846687640

If anyone is interested in the links between the UK and Saudi Arabia, a fantastic book is Mark Curtis' "Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam"

It deals with the way the British government has consistently funded and trained radical Islamic movements in order to use them as a counterweight to secular, progressive movements in order to maintain control of oil.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Time-Travellers-Guide-Elizabethan-England-Ian-Mortimer/0099542072

The Time Travellers Guide to Elizabethan England by Ian Mortimer is a really good read and gives you a good sense of the day to day lives of the people living in that period.

Don’t know of a sub, but these books are fantastic:

Inside the Victorian Home: A Portrait of Domestic Life in Victorian England

How to Be a Victorian: A Dawn-to-Dusk Guide to Victorian Life

The Time Traveller's Guide to Elizabethan England
by Ian Mortimer will give you a good idea of what life was like under Queen Elizabeth I’s reign (1558-1603).

This book answers most of your questions, and is fun to read. Highly recommended.

https://www.amazon.com/Time-Travelers-Guide-Medieval-England-ebook/dp/B0030MQJL4/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1541538499&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=Medieval+guide&dpPl=1&dpID=51FYVozg5cL&ref=plSrch

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1843833530?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title has a couple of sections on sheaths including an overview on there construction. If you haven't read the book it is interesting if you like medeviel knives

Two naval books that are great reads:

http://www.amazon.com/To-Rule-Waves-British-Shaped/dp/0060534257

http://www.amazon.com/Heart-Sea-Tragedy-Whaleship-Essex/dp/0141001828/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382822400&sr=1-1&keywords=whaleship+essex

Leviathan and the Air-pump it's on a single debate, but it's a good read.

I read it initially in this book, but the History Channel was more easily linked.

https://www.amazon.com/Rule-Waves-British-Shaped-Modern/dp/0060534257

Morris Bishop posited that when roman protection receded, and banditry & raiding became more frequent, villagers might have sought refuge in the manor of the local landowner, as they were more likely to be fortified and well-stocked. Medieval feudal laws were often a complicated patchwork of ancient, sometimes inexplicable rights, as a result of the budding serfs gradually negotiating away freedom for the lord's military protection.

This is a good place to start: http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/031216985X

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Burke-Hare-Ghouls-Brian-Bailey/dp/1840185759
Burke and hare snatched bodies and then moved on to murder in Edinburgh in 1828 to sell to a doctor who wanted cadavers.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/cka/Highland-Clearances-John-Prebble/0140028374
The Highland clearances, English Lords and Scottish royalists force people of off the land creating poverty and destitution.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bloody-Scottish-History-Bruce-Durie/dp/0752482890
This one focuses on Glasgow but he has other books it covers a broad range of events.

Edit.. Add one on

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Brother-Surgeons-Garet-Rogers/0552087556

This book is expensive wow, the hunter brothers pioneered all sorts of medical things they were from my home town and the old house is a museum. plenty online about them.

Guy Halsall's World of Arthur is excellent if you want to get a sense of what scholars think about the "real/ historical" Arthur. It's written accessibly but serious about the topic.

Huh. I read this in Arthur Herman's To Rule the Waves. Good overview history, but I do wonder about the accuracy of some points that he makes.

My speciality is 20th century military history and British colonial history, but the latter is mostly focused on sub-Saharan Africa.

Also, you'll forgive me. I did read Piers Brendons' [Decline and Fall of the British Empire] (http://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-British-Empire-1781-1997/dp/0307388417) a few years ago. But in this case, typing on my phone, I referenced the wrong book.

The book I'm reading is [The Rise and Fall of the British Empire] (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031216985X/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687682&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0307388417&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=04D0AHRCMFJAJ7EMSZ1Y) by Lawrence James.

Just finished "Secret Affairs:Britain's collusion with radical Islam" by Mark Curtis. The author did a lot of research and sited hundreds of sources from interviews, documents, news articles, etc. The link to amazon is here

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Empire-Project-World-System-1830-1970/dp/0521317894/ref=pd_sim_b_1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Britain-Decolonisation-Retreat-Post-War-Twentieth/dp/0333292588

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Britains-Declining-Empire-Decolonisation-1918-1968/dp/0521685559

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Decline-Revival-Fall-British-Empire/dp/0521891043

This is a massive field. You might want to begin with an historiographical article or three.

Norman Invasion

Queen Isabella

I have seen it used in reference to Gladstone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ewart_Gladstone and Disraeli http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli. These two men were the main political rivals of the mid to late Nineteenth Century in Britain. Gladstone was a Liberal, Disraeli a Tory/Conservative and so in this case the "crown" was control of Parliament. Here's the book that makes the reference: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lion-Unicorn-Gladstone-Disraeli/dp/1844133125

Rise and Fall of British Empire: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/031216985X/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/182-1086876-3149244

I would stay away from specific studyies of mass murders for now and read some general works for essential background on why the troubles was happening/key moments etc

http://www.amazon.com/Making-Sense-Troubles-Conflict-Northern/dp/1561310700

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Troubles-Irelands-Ordeal-1966-1996/dp/1570981442

2 good examples of which there are undoubtedly many.


I'm originally from Northern Ireland myself (and study history at university) so if you have any specific questions feel free to send them my way!

Like I said, I'm an exmuslim. You're gonna lecture ME about criticising Islam? I don't need you to tell me there are legitimate criticisms of Islam, just as there are of Christianity and Judaism and Hinduism and Sikhism and Buddhism. But your starting point is that because this terrorist was Muslim we should assume all Muslims ascribe to such beliefs. Do you even logic?

>Islam is very right wing

No, wahhabi Islam spread by the Saudi government that (a) the British government created and installed and (b) continues to be propped up by the UK and US, is right wing and intolerant. You may not have heard of Sufi Islam, for instance, but that's your own ignorance. Your argument is analogous to saying than Christianity is terrible because of the Westboro Baptist Church

>with the overwhelming number of terror attacks linked to Islam


After El Paso, right-wing terrorists have killed more people on US soil than jihadis have.. You might also want to pick yourself a copy of Mark Curtis's Secret Affairs.

Facts don't fit your narrative, mate, what are you going to do?

I'm not shutting down discussion. I'm telling you that your position is wrong, or worse, malicious. Discuss away.