Reddit mentions of Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century

In a similar vain, Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century

It is an oversimplification. Keep /u/cephalopodie's caveat in mind, but we do have references to sexual dynamics that we could consider precursors to LGBTQI folks. I would point you in the way of John Boswell's work on same-sex unions in Pre-Modern Europe. Boswell points to some extant textual references of the Catholic church performing same-sex unions. The key term here is some. See also this work. Here is some more up to date takes on the thesis. Keep in mind, I have not read this one. I would also invite you to take a look at Virginia Burrus' work.

Indeed. Such a person, however, would likely be unfamiliar with biblical textual criticism, the history of homosexuality in the Roman empire at the time of Christ, the history of homosexuality within the Christian tradition, the history of the interpretation of these scriptures, and unfamiliar with psychological literature that almost unanimously shows that people who live repressing same-sex attraction are nearly universally miserable.


Here's a to read list:
http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060859512/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420072538&sr=8-1&keywords=misquoting+jesus


http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Social-Tolerance-Homosexuality-Fourteenth/dp/0226067114/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1420072525&sr=8-3&keywords=john+boswell


http://www.amazon.com/Same-Sex-Unions-Premodern-Europe-Boswell/dp/0679751645/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420072525&sr=8-1&keywords=john+boswell

A great book to read regarding this topic is
Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century by John Boswell. It is a comprehensive history.
http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Social-Tolerance-Homosexuality-Fourteenth/dp/0226067114

It won the National Book Award in 1981.

edit: made a full sentence by adding 'history'.

These documentaries, Before Stonewall and After Stonewall are worth watching.


It can bring a sense of connection to watch people speak in their own words about their struggles and their activism.

I'm blanking on books--maybe And The Band Played On--but hopefully others will jump in.

Oh! Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality (cheap used on Amazon)is worth a read for some deeper history (though its conclusions are not uncontroversial).

> Actually, you are wrong and ahistorical. Before "traditional marriage", women were the dominate in relationships,

You're just going farther back than I am. I don't disagree that even earlier social constructs were based around a system of matriarchy. However, the current construct of marriage is based around the transfer of property from one man to another man as a business contract. Even in "The Iliad" we have a version of marriage where it acceptable and desireable for a man to take concubines (female POWs whose function is to be raped).

This earlier version of marriage I would certainly be interested to learn more about, but I'm low on actual real references to the actual ceremonies and the type of agreements therein.

> Many early tribes worshiped women and were even ruled by them.

True, but we don't have any recordings of their ceremonies or the parameters of the relationship therein. For example, the ancient Yamato people were allegedly originally a Matriarchy before the Koreans came and messed things up by introducing Confucianism. What we don't have is an understanding of marriage during this time as it would have been understood by them, so mostly we can only speculate.

I have even seen documentaries on current tribes where things are communal.

I do rather like John Boswell in Christianity Homosexuality and Social Tolerance and Same Sex Unions in Premodern Europe, the latter giving an idea of more variety.

You also get an upgoat from me.

In terms of marriage, you might be interested in looking up the late John Boswell's work who wrote quite a lot about this in these works:

Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality

The Marriage of Likeness: Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe

The second book is controversial because it rests on a translation of adelphopoiesis - adopting someone who is not a blood relative as your brother - as meaning a Church sanctioned same sex union between two men.

That interpretation is disputed and I understand it didn't wash with a lot of people.

Same sex relationships is different though - there are probably lots of records of these in Europe if not elsewhere.

http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Social-Tolerance-Homosexuality-Fourteenth/dp/0226067114

http://books.google.com/books/about/Christianity_Social_Tolerance_and_Homose.html?id=v-MR5_AdG68C

These.