Reddit mentions: The best saudi arabia history books
We found 33 Reddit comments discussing the best saudi arabia history books. We ran sentiment analysis on each of these comments to determine how redditors feel about different products. We found 20 products and ranked them based on the amount of positive reactions they received. Here are the top 20.
1. The History of Saudi Arabia
- Paperback
- First Edition first printing numbers 1-10 are present
- Nobel Peace Prize in 2002
Features:
Specs:
Release date | September 2013 |
2. A History of Saudi Arabia
- Pen-style, precision tip eraser
- Rectangle; 2.5mm Diameter
- Will not damage paper
- Refillable
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Specs:
Height | 9.02 Inches |
Length | 5.99 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Release date | May 2010 |
Weight | 1.0361726314 Pounds |
Width | 0.78 Inches |
3. On Saudi Arabia: Its People, Past, Religion, Fault Lines - and Future
Specs:
Release date | September 2012 |
4. House of Saud
- New
- Mint Condition
- Dispatch same day for order received before 12 noon
- Guaranteed packaging
- No quibbles returns
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Height | 7.79526 Inches |
Length | 5.07873 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Weight | 0.65 Pounds |
Width | 0.82677 Inches |
5. Force and Fanaticism: Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia and Beyond
- COMPLETE SET: Includes water pump, filter and fountain with attachments.
- 3 DISPLAY OPTIONS: Includes three different fountain attachments – froth, spray and bell patterns – allowing you to personalize your pond.
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- THREE SIZES: Select the proper pump for your pond size – under 100 gallons, between 75 and 250 gallons, or between 250 and 500 gallons.
Features:
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Height | 5.5 Inches |
Length | 8.5 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Weight | 1.3007273458 Pounds |
Width | 1.1 Inches |
6. Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude
Specs:
Release date | July 2003 |
7. Salman's Legacy: The Dilemmas of a New Era in Saudi Arabia
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Height | 5.9 Inches |
Length | 8.6 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Release date | June 2018 |
Weight | 1.45 Pounds |
Width | 1.2 Inches |
8. Awakening Islam: The Politics of Religious Dissent in Contemporary Saudi Arabia
- Used Book in Good Condition
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Height | 8.25 Inches |
Length | 5.76 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Weight | 1.21695168624 Pounds |
Width | 1.29 Inches |
9. The Kingdom: Arabia and the House of Sa'Ud
- The mighty wallet is tear-resistant, water-resistant, expandable and recyclable
- Innovative design has no stitching and instantly adjusts to a custom fit
- Made from a single folded sheet of a strong micro fiber material (Tyvek)
- Super thin wallet provides a slim profile, less bulk and freedom of movement
- Dimensions (open) 8 x 3 1/4 x 1/8-inches
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Height | 7 Inches |
Length | 4 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Weight | 0.8 Pounds |
Width | 1.25 Inches |
10. One Thousand Roads to Mecca: (updated with new material)
Grove Press
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Height | 9.25 Inches |
Length | 6.25 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Weight | 1.90479394368 Pounds |
Width | 1.5 Inches |
11. The Creation of Saudi Arabia (History and Society in the Islamic World)
- GREAT INTERIOR DISPLAY - This beautiful mechanical wooden clock built with excellent quality materials is a great interior display. Place it on the walls of your house and watch its pendulum swing gracefully. Runs for 24 hours on a wind.
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- MEASUREMENT - The body has dimensions of 250mm x 200mm x 50mm.
- REQUIRED TO COMPLETE (not included): Razor Saw, Wood Glue and Sandpaper, Counterweight Material, and Patience.
Features:
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Height | 9.21 Inches |
Length | 6.14 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Release date | March 2013 |
Weight | 0.78925489796 Pounds |
Width | 0.51 Inches |
12. Princes of Darkness: The Saudi Assault on the West
Used Book in Good Condition
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Height | 9.24 Inches |
Length | 6.06 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Weight | 1.25 Pounds |
Width | 0.9 Inches |
13. The Official Senate Report on CIA Torture: Committee Study of the Central Intelligence Agency?s Detention and Interrogation Program
- COLORFUL PEN - These fake needle pens will make your writing more exciting than a regular ballpoint pen. They have 4 different fluid colors: red, blue, yellow and green. But the ink is black or blue. Have fun taking notes, memos, messages, or lists!
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- PREMIUM QUALITY - Made of plastic and other high-quality materials to last long. They consist of a precisely formed metal ball seated in a socket below a reservoir of ink. Push the plunger to write.
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- SET INCLUDES - Twelve 9mm x 127mm liquid filled retractable ball pens that write easily and smoothly. They impress everyone around you and make a good talking point. Find it all in Kicko.
Features:
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Height | 9 Inches |
Length | 6 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Release date | January 2015 |
Weight | 1.43961857086 Pounds |
Width | 1.3 Inches |
14. Paramedic to the Prince: An American Paramedic's Account of Life Inside the Mysterious World of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
- Sit-bone Gel pads plus foam padding relieve pressure from soft tissue
- Full length center recess with cut out for comfortable anatomic relief
- Weather resistant cover with abrasion-resistant side material
- Steel rails
- Weight: 430 grams
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Specs:
Height | 8 inches |
Length | 5.25 inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Weight | 0.8 pounds |
Width | 0.79 inches |
15. The Islamic Utopia: The Illusion of Reform in Saudi Arabia
- Used Book in Good Condition
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Height | 8.4646 Inches |
Length | 5.315 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Release date | November 2012 |
Weight | 0.7605948039 Pounds |
Width | 0.8 Inches |
16. Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude
Robert Baer, Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude, hardcover
Specs:
Height | 9.51 Inches |
Length | 6.39 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Release date | July 2003 |
Weight | 1.1 Pounds |
Width | 0.89 Inches |
17. The Two Faces of Islam: The House of Sa'ud from Tradition to Terror
Terrorism
Specs:
Height | 9.53 Inches |
Length | 6.44 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Release date | October 2002 |
Weight | 1.34922904344 Pounds |
Width | 1.1 Inches |
18. Jihad in Saudi Arabia: Violence and Pan-Islamism since 1979 (Cambridge Middle East Studies)
- The SM58-CN variant includes the SM58 cardioid dynamic vocal microphone, 25-foot XLR-male to XLR-female cable, A25D swivel stand adapter and storage bag
- Performance tested, industry standard
- Uniform cardioid pick-up pattern for maximum gain before feedback and excellent rejection of off-axis sound
- Tailored frequency response specifically shaped for vocals, with brightened midrange and bass roll off to control proximity effect
- Advanced pneumatic shock mount system that minimizes transmission of mechanical noise and vibration
- Steel-mesh grille and enamel-coated metal construction resist wear and abuse
- Effective built in pop-filter reduces undesirable wind and breathe noise
- Furnished with zippered storage bag and break-resistant stand adapter
- Extremely durable under the heaviest use
- Shure quality, ruggedness and reliability
Features:
Specs:
Height | 8.97 Inches |
Length | 5.99 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Weight | 1.0802650838 pounds |
Width | 0.69 Inches |
19. The Siege of Mecca: The Forgotten Uprising in Islam's Holiest Shrine and the Birth of al-Qaeda
Specs:
Height | 9.51 Inches |
Length | 6.35 Inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Release date | September 2007 |
Width | 1.04 Inches |
20. The Creation of Saudi Arabia: Ibn Saud and British Imperial Policy, 1914-1927 (History and Society in the Islamic World)
Specs:
Height | 9.21 inches |
Length | 6.14 inches |
Number of items | 1 |
Weight | 0.99869404686 Pounds |
Width | 0.56 inches |
🎓 Reddit experts on saudi arabia history books
The comments and opinions expressed on this page are written exclusively by redditors. To provide you with the most relevant data, we sourced opinions from the most knowledgeable Reddit users based the total number of upvotes and downvotes received across comments on subreddits where saudi arabia history books are discussed. For your reference and for the sake of transparency, here are the specialists whose opinions mattered the most in our ranking.
Yes but in the creation of mosques they are not proud about owning up to it. This book does a great job discussing this larger issue (the big one we're skirting around; the "two faces" are of moderate, "regular" Islam and Wahabbi/Salafi) but also this exact point we're discussing right now, about how Salafis mosques are built without publicizing their actual type of Islam.
Muhammad ibn Saud founded KSA before oil was discovered (and without the help of the British), and at that time he was one of the most powerful warlords in the region. Al Saud consolidated its power after the Arab revolt when the British switched its support from Hussein to Al Saud (but this point he had already conquered most of the peninsula). The British didn't even know about the oil at this point. Oil wasn't even discovered till 1938, long after Saudi Arabia was a established nation
I agree the country wouldn't be as powerful today if not for oil but I hardly see how that's relevant.
A good read if your actually interested in the hisotry the
Instead of stepping on a possible landmine, I'd recommend asking her about it to learn as much as you can from her. The national narrative differs quite a bit from most books.
So you've got the standard Fromkin:
A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East
http://www.amazon.com/Peace-End-All-Ottoman-Creation-ebook/dp/B003X27L7C/
Karen House as an overview:
http://www.amazon.com/On-Saudi-Arabia-People-Religion-ebook/dp/B007MDK5GM/
Then you've got the . . . interesting take on it from Alexei Vassiliev.
http://www.amazon.com/History-Saudi-Arabia-Alexei-Vassiliev-ebook/dp/B00F21X5Y0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8
There's more stuff but that should give a fairly comprehensive overview for what you're looking on.
Thank you for your response. The thing is, Ibn Jubayr only mentions it so Im pretty sure it was there way before, presumably when Umm Salima passed away. Also some other comments pointed out the grave of prophet mohammed right inside the mosque as well so there's that.
I'm not sure either on what the deal is. At least one scholar mentioned how the hadith of Ali saying to level graves was meant for the pre-islamic shrines dotting the area. I'd be curious to read more about this as its fascinating to me. This is why I posted it as I thought for sure someone could pull out a book or historic blurb with details on this. Perhaps other accounts in the book im reading will also mention this or other shrines.
Here's a pretty small book that would give you some of the answers your after http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/0521747546
Keep in mind, Al-Saud have their own narrative that mainly talks about the agreement with Ibn Abd Al-Wahhab, which fits well with the whole Saudi run by the Al Saud family mainain the purity that Ibn Abd Al-Wahhab preached.
So you'll truggle to get an uncorrupted version of history that serves the Al-Saud family.
https://www.amazon.com/House-Saud-Said-Aburish/dp/0747578745
https://www.amazon.com/House-Bush-Saud-Relationship-Dynasties/dp/0743253396
https://www.amazon.com/Saudi-Arabia-People-Religion-Lines/dp/0307473287
All of these are really good. The Bush one does try to play politics, but its good none the less.
Here is an excerpt from an article by The Guardian suggesting but not proving beyond a doubt what I am getting at:
article: "WikiLeaks cables: Saudi Arabia cannot pump enough oil to keep a lid on prices"
"Seven months later, the US embassy in Riyadh went further in two more cables. "Our mission now questions how much the Saudis can now substantively influence the crude markets over the long term. Clearly they can drive prices up, but we question whether they any longer have the power to drive prices down for a prolonged period."
Other parts of my education on the topic come from author Robert Baer who spent most of his 21 years in the CIA stationed in the Middle East. He focuses on the Saudi-US symbiotic relationship in great detail in his book Sleeping with the Devil.
The time you're referring to is called "sahwa" in Arabic, means awakening. Basically, it describes a phenomenon where Saudi got very religious around the 80's due to some social and political factors. There's a good book that documents that period, I hope this is the english translation of it (I read it in Arabic so I'm not sure of what the English title is)
But what created that religious extremism? Read Former CIA Officer Robert Baer's book for some insight: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FBFO64/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
TL;DR U.S. support for Saudi Arabia, and the Sauds/Wahabists funding an unreal amount of Madras's with hundreds of billions of dollars throughout the Middle East preaching fundamentalist, militant and anti-intellectual religion.
For more information, I recommend you read
[Force and Fanaticism: Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia and Beyond]
(https://www.amazon.com/Force-Fanaticism-Wahhabism-Arabia-Beyond/dp/1849044643)
Describes the history of Wahhabism and its effects. Author spent time in Saudi Arabia.
[The ISIS Apocalypse: The History, Strategy, and Doomsday Vision of the Islamic State] (https://www.amazon.com/ISIS-Apocalypse-History-Strategy-Doomsday/dp/1250112648/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1496875330&sr=1-1&keywords=The+ISIS+Apocalypse)
Self explanatory.
[Kingdom of the Unjust: Behind the U.S.-Saudi Connection] (https://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Unjust-Behind-U-S-Saudi-Connection/dp/1944869026/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1496875675&sr=1-1&keywords=kingdom+of+the+unjust+behind+the+u.s.-saudi+connection)
Easy to read description of Saudi crimes.
[The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11] (https://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/1400030846/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1496875754&sr=1-1&keywords=Looming+Tower)
Excellent narrative history of Al Qaeda. Highly recommended.
[My Year Inside Radical Islam: A Memoir] (https://www.amazon.com/My-Year-Inside-Radical-Islam/dp/1585426113/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1496875857&sr=1-1&keywords=My+Year+inside+Radical+Islam)
Not a wide-sweeping narrative but a personal story of someone who worked for a Saudi-funded charity and slowly adapted their beliefs.
[On Saudi Arabia: Its People, Past, Religion, Fault Lines -- and Future]
(https://www.amazon.com/Saudi-Arabia-People-Religion-Lines/dp/0307473287/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1496875930&sr=1-1&keywords=On+Saudi+Arabia)
Written by a reporter who spent years in Saudi Arabia, gives a description of Saudi society.
[The Siege of Mecca: The 1979 Uprising at Islam's Holiest Shrine] (https://www.amazon.com/Siege-Mecca-Uprising-Islams-Holiest/dp/0307277739/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1496876042&sr=1-1&keywords=The+Siege+of+Mecca)
A great history of an almost unknown terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia. Goes into the relationship between the Saudi royal family and Wahhabi religious establishment.
[Knowing the Enemy: Jihadist Ideology and the War on Terror]
(https://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Enemy-Jihadist-Ideology-Terror/dp/0300122578/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1496876149&sr=1-1&keywords=Knowing+the+Enemy)
Really good explanation of Salafi-Jihadism.
Edit: Added links and made it look nicer. If you want more, just ask. If anyone has any other recommendations, I would like to know. :)
Excerpts:
>Over the past week or so, Saudi Arabia has gotten more U.S. mainstream media coverage than at any time in decades. But conspicuously missing has been any reporting on the kingdom’s growing friendship with Israel — a de facto alliance that may help explain why Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman thought he could get away with ordering the murder of the dissident journalist, Jamal Khashoggi.
>
>Madawi Al-Rasheed is a Saudi Arabian woman professor, presently at King’s College London, who has written or edited more than 13 books on her home nation. Particularly valuable is her recently edited (2018) collection about the kingdom’s new leadership, entitled Salman’s Legacy: The Dilemmas of a New Era in Saudi Arabia.
​
Excellent post, this book was a really eye opener for me, it describes a political movement that developed in Saudi from the 1970s onwards, the insightfulness came from the picture it paints of saudi society, it is really very nuanced
https://www.amazon.com/Awakening-Islam-Politics-Religious-Contemporary/dp/0674049640
My interest got kicked off after reading A History of Saudi Arabia by Madawi Al-Rashid. It's a concise history of the current Saudi monarchy going back to the late 19th century. You'll want a map by your side to understand the geography of the Arabian peninsula if you're not familiar, but it's a really solid introduction to the monarchy and their motivations in the world.
The Kingdom is a very entertaining read. Published circa 1980, it is still a must read for those seeking insight to the history and mindset of Saudis.
Islamism is a very broad tent, not all islamists are violent and many want to live in normal democratic societies with civil rights. I can recommend some good books on the subject
Islamism and Democracy in India
https://press.princeton.edu/titles/9065.html
Awakening Islam
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Awakening-Islam-Religious-Dissent-Contemporary/dp/0674049640
The Islamist
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2007/may/06/politics?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Muted modernists
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lsereviewofbooks/2016/07/27/book-review-muted-modernists-the-struggle-over-divine-politics-in-saudi-arabia-by-madawi-al-rasheed/
'The author examines the Anglo-Saudi legal arrangement which fully integrated Saudi foreign policy into the framework of Britain’s imperial policy system in order to serve specific British military and political objectives in the Middle East concerning primarily, but not exclusively, the occupation of Palestine'. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creation-Arabia-History-Society-Islamic/dp/0415845998?ie=UTF8&qid=1465906580&ref_=la_B001JO9I4K_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1
Absolutely. I can recommend some general books on the role of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia and in the Islamic world more generally:
https://www.amazon.com/Force-Fanaticism-Wahhabism-Arabia-Beyond/dp/1849044643
https://www.amazon.com/Religion-Politics-Saudi-Arabia-Wahhabism/dp/1588266370
On the War in Syria:
https://www.amazon.com/Syria-Ruins-Dynamics-Security-International/dp/1440838364
Some Wikipedia articles also give a good introduction to the role of Wahhabi ideology in Mideast geopolitics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_propagation_of_Salafism_and_Wahhabism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism
Relatively accurate information on the funding/support for Syrian rebel groups: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War (look at the infobox)
I've got a link.
https://www.amazon.com/Salafi-Jihadism-History-Idea-SHIRAZ-MAHER/dp/0141986263/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=AS9G2MR5E5QMT5S7HDPD
https://www.amazon.com/Jihad-Saudi-Arabia-Pan-Islamism-Cambridge/dp/0521732360
http://www.defence.gov.au/ADC/Publications/IndoPac/Wimhurst_IPSP_Nov16_(updated).pdf
https://ctc.usma.edu/constructing-takfir-from-abdullah-azzam-to-djamel-zitouni/
https://www.managementboek.nl/code/inkijkexemplaar/9781783262878/the-father-of-jihad-engels-muhammed-haniff-hassan.pdf
http://www.abc.net.au/religion/sayyid-qutb-father-of-salafi-jihadism-forerunner-of-the-islamic-/10096380
If you want to understand the history and origin of modern Jihadism, you should start with Sayed Qutb. All jihadist Islamists (and note not all Islamists are jihadist), Sunni or Shi'a, derive their beliefs from him.
Islamism, the belief Islam should have a role in governance, has existed since the inception of Islam. Offensive jihadism on the other hand, in the grand scheme of things, is a modern phenomenon.
When Iran says they want to 'export the Islamic Revolution' and they act upon this statement through financing terrorism, this is offensive jihadism and was adopted from Sayed Qutb (who the Fedayeen e Islami, which Khomeini was a part of, was close to)
When ISIS says they want to "conquer Rome" (as in they want to establish a Caliphate in Europe), same principle but from a Sunni perspective.
Who here has read the 2012 Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA torture?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_report_on_CIA_torture
https://www.amazon.com/Official-Senate-Report-Torture-Interrogation/dp/1634506022
Paramedic to the Prince: An American Paramedic's Account of Life Inside the Mysterious World of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
by Patrick Notestine
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1439245819/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_awd_d_r2FMxb82N5H3G
Interesting to read about working inside a culture that so very different than western culture.
Edit : markdown fail
Are you sure that's the right book? There's a book explicitly about Saudi Arabia with 'Utopia' in the title.
https://www.amazon.com/Islamic-Utopia-Illusion-Reform-Arabia/dp/0745332692
Can't vouch for if it's good or worth reading, but I can see why this book would be banned in Saudi Arabia
> These are not "extremist" views; these are Muslims following the Qur'an's views in it's full extent. Sorry.
I can see how many people believe that. Just reading parts of the Holy Qur'an out of context can lead one to conclude that Islam advocates senseless violence and slaying of all that stands in its way.
However, most of the people who 'study' Islam and make these claims never take the time to read and understand the tafseer (commentary) on these verses.
One such verse that is frequently quoted is "and slay them wherever ye catch them…” If you were to take the time to read this verse in context and analyse the tafseer, you would realize that it is talking about fighting in retaliation. Islam does not condone the killing of anyone save in retalition or self defense.
If you would really like to learn more about how the notion of Islam as a violent and intolerant religion came about, read The Two Faces of Islam by Stephen Schwartz (who is ironically a Jew.)
Just how much do you know about Saudi Arabia or the Saudi political system? I ask because in your first sentence, you state that a decapitation strike against the Saudi government pushes the royal family from power, yet the House of Saud is comprised of roughly 15,000 people--2,000 of which have power in one form or another in the government. Additionally, there are systems in place to help facilitate succession of the kingdom. And there are entire military services dedicated to ensuring the security of the government against internal threats. So the idea of a decapitation strike is fairly unlikely, which is to say nothing of the numerous other political and societal structures in place that would either facilitate or inhibit any attempt at a coup (especially by a non-state actor).
Before you continue drafting your storyline, I encourage you to read up on the history of Saudi Arabia, political Islam and Islamic extremism, and the international relations of the Arab World. Additionally, I would suggest taking a greater look at the Grand Mosque seizure of 1979 and its aftermath, and instances of a monarchy being overthrown by a non-royal entity. The coups against King Farouk of Egypt (1952), King Faisal II of Iraq (1958), King Idris I of Libya (1969), and the attempted coup against King Hussayn of Jordan (1970) might be good places to start. Not all of them will be applicable to you, but it should give you an idea of what a coup entails, what a successful coup looks like, and what the aftermath is.
With that in mind, I suggest the following books as a place to start:
History of Saudi Arabia and the Arab World
Middle East Politics
Islam and Political Islam
Jihadism and Islamic Extremism
The Pakistani company was repulsed with heavy casualties. The Saudis then called in a French company that was hastily converted to Islam to go in and capture the Mosque.
"The desperate Saudis finally enlisted the help of French commandos led by tough-as-nails Captain Paul Barril, who prepared the final assault and supplied poison gas that knocked out the insurgents." (Source - http://www.amazon.com/The-Siege-Mecca-Forgotten-Uprising/dp/B0085SI2IG)
Another source - (http://blogs.cfr.org/husain/2011/11/22/when-the-french-liberated-mecca/)
Guy, crack open those books I gave you to look at. Start there. If you insist on being ignorant after learning where you can find answers, answers which I offered you, yet you refuse to vet; that burden is on you. Personal incredulity is just as illogical as burden of proof.
The amount of time it takes to put together an academic level paper which takes into account 60 even 80 years of history is staggering. You've been given the reading material. Stop bitching and start reading!
Here are some more books and research
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/reviews/0415453720?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
http://philpapers.org/rec/GEOBRS-6
Also look into Wahabiidm Qutbism
Now please, cut out the act.
Hi Jack_Kehoe, thank you for yr comment on bigotry and the need to condemn every single Muslim. I am aware that any reply of mine would not do justice to either your argument or mine and is off-topic for this thread on Q. So just a few remarks because it might be better to have a separate thread on religion, and my aplogies to others on this thread for the length. It is a very complex subject!
It is precisely the complexity of the argument that forces me, firstly, to declare your judgement of Islam as a "savage and degenerate religion that literally victimizes anyone who isn't a male Muslim" as shallow and ill-considered. That you proclaim your anger "righteous" suggests to me that you are religious and might hold “beliefs” that others who are not of your religion might consider, in turn, bigotted and ignorant! The statement turns your own criticism back upon itself. Look to the beam in your own eye before you try to remove the speck in the other’s, you might say! Notice that I am not saying you are bigotted and ignorant, just that others might see you this way.
The Old Testament is a violent, intolerant ‘book’ that shows an unforgiving God. It has similarities with the Quran. And let’s not get into the Torah or Talmud, the latter book being a Hebrew version of Sharia Law! The New Testment brought a revolutionary air that turned this upside down and taught love, to love thy neighbour as oneself. These three religions worship the same God, with different names.
Scholars will fight and argue over “interpretations” for thousands of years and we can’t do that here. But here is a different tale:
>Here is an interesting brief review (by Morgaan Sinclair) of a book mentioned by David Livingstone in his article, Stephen Schwartz's The Two Faces of Islam : The House of Sa'ud from Tradition to Terror.
In the very short space of several hundred pages, Schwartz does something really remarkable: Out of the backdrop of a solidly-researched and tautly-written history of Islam emerges the picture of a river splitting in two. One branch, the original river of Islam, having emerged from earlier wars and the Crusades, meanders on, mostly peacefully. But another branch diverges and becomes a virulent strain of psychopathically-distorted religious fundamentalism. This nightmare began to take shape from 1703 with the birth of Mohammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the world's first Islamist terrorist, and descends to the present in its alliance with the Al Sa'ud. The Wahhabis — the Haters of Music — have always claimed all other forms of Islam to be heretical and have waged a 250-year war against all those who have resisted its ultra-puritanical doctrine — Shi'as, Sufis, Christians, Jews. Now that war comes to us. In a brilliantly, and often beautifully, written book, we watch the two rivers separate and flow down into our time. Schwartz's condemnation of Wahhabism is unapologetic, as is his antipathy for the duplicity of the Royal House of Sa'ud. But it is condemnation and antipathy irrefutably supported by the facts. And in this time it is a book of unmatched value: For with the information contained within this masterpiece on contemporary Islam, we are able to separate mainstream Islam from its evil twin and fight a more intelligent and more compassionate War on Terror. It is a profound and often lyrical book, and Schwartz is remarkably brave to have written it (after you read it, you'll understand why). If you read only one book on Islam in our time, let it be this one.<
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385506929/002-7946841-7451229?v=glance
More links to explore further:
Globalists Created Wahhabi Terrorism to Destroy Islam and Justify a Global State. by David Livingstone
The 'House' of Saud — no more Islamic than Billy Graham
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/livingstone.htm
Here’s a tale from a man who constantly criticises the Left, but whose sympathy for Muslim resistance takes a different, interesting view:
http://www.serendipity.li/zionism/jazz_and_jihad.htm
And finally a man who speaks at length about his religion but who is far from being either bigotted or ignorant, a true scholar:
http://www.ascertainthetruth.com/att/index.php/video-resources/86-world-rule/1025-world-war-three-sheikh-imran-hosein
We should try to understand other cultures and could spend entire lifetimes doing so.
I have not downvoted you. But I want to clarify why many are.
We don't completely disagree with you, but while your outlook is more educated than the average, you still seem to be whitewashing the U.S intentions in these engagements.
Examples:
>Had we not supported, say, the Taliban, the the Soviets would likely have overrun Afghanistan. The Bin Laden thing, well, it's a nice theory because it makes it easy to demonize the US, but it's just false.
Should read: Had we not supported any and all radical regimes in the middle east and elsewhere worldwide, including dictators and brutal thugs; whomever we're cooperative with our economic, political and hegemonic aspirations, (who would receive our funding, weaponry, and on the world stage, our backing), --- We would not have control of the vast array of global resources that we do now, most importantly in the middle east, crude.
It wasn't to just keep the Soviets out, it was to keep the soviets out of our oil and natural resources.
>Hussein we supported and created. And then when we went to clean up our mess, America went ballistic.
Hussein we supported and created, for the reasons described above. When he no longer supported our agendas, we revealed him to the world as who he always was. A brutal dictator, which up until that point, did not bother us so long as the sweet crude kept flowing. As soon as it was politically better to remove him, we murdered his ass.
>The US didn't support the Taliban for funsies. The US didn't support Hussein because we thought he was a swell fella. The US did those things because at the time they were expedient and we were facing a threat from the Soviet Union - a bloc of countries responsible for a fair number of heinous things including genocides on par with the Holocaust.
Again, this could be summed up with. DON'T LET THE COMMIES GET OUR OIL. - Side note, again I cannot stress enough that we as a country, yes the US has murdered 10's of millions simply by financially, and politically supporting brutal dictators around the world whom were cooperative with our regional interests. Even this argument wears thin in the case of iraq, were specifically our military and our private contractors have killed thousands of civilians, and displaced millions from their homes, tortured people, denied them the right to a trial, etc....
Overall, the concern is this (For TL;DR users): While we may not actually use our military to murder millions, (I still use this loosely, as we only have a much quieter way of doing so, check out COIN theory) we by proxy support brutal dictators, thugs and otherwise in the pursuit of our goals, even when we know for a fact that our support is the reason why the millions of deaths they pursue are possible.
We are murderer enablers. Not because we like to. But because we have no choice in an economic system that demands permanent growth. The raw materials and oil have to come from somewhere, somehow, essentially NO MATTER THE COST.
I highly recommend reading Noam Chomsky, Hegemony or Survival for references to whom we have supported and why, as well as Sleeping with the devil, how we sold our souls for Saudi crude, by former CIA agent Robert Baer for insight on our rather strange relationship with our Saudi "friends", The House of Sa'ud.
EDIT: Spelling.