Reddit mentions: The best baptist christianity books

Oh, goodness, depends on your area of interest! I liked American Protestsntism, but my real passion was early Christianity, especially the gospels excluded from the Bible.

Off the top of Mr head (and its been 30 years, so forgive me! This is good on American evangelical history The Great Awakening: A History of the Revival of Religion in the Time of Edwards and Whitefield
Also good in that area is The Great Awakening: The Roots of Evangelical Christianity in Colonial America

A REALLY good way to find texts is to search for college/university syllabi which are usually on line now! For example, Dartmouth's Intro to American Religion is there, Rutgers' is online, etc.

I cannot stress enough how important it is to get recommendations from academic universities and courses, not church-based ones. You want to learn and engage with the material without having to deal with a school's or teacher's theology involved. You want information that isn't censored for theological reasons.

I LOVED my degree work, and the area is still a great passion of mine. Feel free to direct message me if I can be of any help. Check out some of the extra-biblical Gospels, like the Gospels of Mary, Thomas, etc. You'll delve into the politics of assembling the Bible and the reasons for excluding certain narratives (especially the equality of women and the aggressive social justice policies!). Love to chat about this stuff!

I'm sure you'll get sarcastic remarks about "just read the Bible" (which, as a Reformed Baptist [charismatic] I'd agree with) but I think you're looking for solid theological interactions on the issue. In some ways, I think these are good starter books for not only the issue at hand (baptism) but also how it fits within the larger theological vision of the Christian life and community. Baptism is one of those issues that, for being seemingly simple, reveals a great deal about how one understands the nature of faith, the entire Christian life, and the nature of the Gospel itself. Just taking a guess, but I assume you're approaching it from the sobriety that the issue deserves given your reading thus far, so I commend you for looking for further resources on the topic and continuing to read!

Here are a few that are good starters, and for more reading, I'd look to their bibliographies and footnotes.

Believer's Baptism - This is a good resource. There are a few points here or there where I'd disagree with various articles. I'd want to emphasize different aspects here or there, but especially at points where the covenants (Covenant Theology v. New Covenant Theology) becomes the issue. So, good starter, and the basic presentation of a thoughtful credo-baptist view.

The Distinctiveness of Baptist Covenant Theology - Taking up that point of covenant theology, this is a very thorough book on how the covenants play within a Reformed Baptist view of baptism. Very good.

Covenant Theology: A Reformed and Baptistic Perspective on God's Covenants

Covenant Theology: A Reformed Baptist Primer

The Confessing Baptist - This is a website and podcast. A good resource for articles and podcasts on various issues related to Reformed Baptists.

If you're looking for one book, I'd go with Believer's Baptism, and supplement with materials available at The Confessing Baptist website. That'll get your versed in the logic of the credo-baptist position, and hopefully provide some good things to mull over.

Hope that helps!

It's awesome to see someone interested in sociology (especially sociology of religion) in high school.

Before you start doing research, you need to think about what your actual question is. What is it about the sociology of religion that interests you? Are you interested in explaining religious variation? Are you interested in how different people experience religion? Are you interested in studying how religion influences people's behavior or beliefs? Think of something in the social world that you don't know, but want to know. The answer will guide how you approach research.

Also, not all of the sociology of religion is quantitative with large sample sizes. There's been some great qualitative work with small sample sizes done in the past. Nancy Ammerman has done some awesome qualitative work. One of my favorite sociology books is Baptist Battles which offers a window into the fundamentalist/progressive conflict in the Southern Baptist Convention in the 80s.

If you are interested in more population level, quantitative stuff, take a look at Putnam and Cambell's American Grace. It's not really an academic book, but the research is solid and it's a great example of the kind of findings quantitative sociology of religion can produce.

If you find that interesting, then you should take some statistics courses and begin to learn statistical software like STATA, SPSS, R. A lot of that software is really daunting to learn at first. We had to learn R in my first year statistics course in grad school, and it had PhD students scratching their heads. Still, getting even a very basic understanding of something like that will get you a head start on research. You WILL need to learn a statistical software in order to quantitative research. If you feel comfortable with doing some basic statistics, check out The Association of Religion Data Archives (ARDA) for some cool public use data.

Also, if you want to do research you need to read research. People here have suggested classic works like Berger's Sacred Canopy or stuff from Weber, Marx and Durkheim. That stuff is cool and all, and if you continue to be interested in sociology you will have to read that. However, nobody doing research today is trying to emulate what Berger, Marx, Weber, and Durkheim did. I suggest looking through some of the articles in The Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion to get a sense of the kinds of research sociologists of religion are doing now. Don't get too bogged down in ancient stuff said by old dead white guys.

One last thing -- absolutely nobody expects you do any kind of research in high school. All the stuff I mentioned are things I learned in grad school and I would consider way above what would be expected from a typical high school student. If you find it overwhelming and confusing that's totally normal. Research is overwhelming and confusing all the time.

Thank you for your prayers. The few that knew what was going on were also on their knees.
When we got to this part of the elders meeting, I was prepared with my notes with the doctrinal issues that put me on the wrong side of the line the pastor had drawn. With some scriptural references with each point, so I wouldn't get lost.
Ironically, he bought a copy of Whosoever Will for all of us elders.
After I got through my points, (uh oh, poor choice of words?) I asked if these were not compatible with the new restrictions. I brought up things that have been said in the past, such as elect meaning you are only elect after you are saved, man is fully capable on his own to acquire salvation through faith that is his own, and not a gift from God, the atonement is fully unlimited.
I was respectful, know that this was going to be a sketchy discussion. I did not denigrate his beliefs, merely show the disparity between the two, so we could make all this clear. (Our doctrinal statement does not address "calvinist" issues. The new lines being drawn has only been taking place since January.) My intention was to make this clear, and ask the elders how they thought we could or should continue.
Before we could get to that point, the pastor became greatly agitated and stormed out, saying that we could fire him if we wanted. That sort of came from left field. I told the others that I did not want to see him fired, I was actually prepared to fire myself, to eliminate any disharmony in the leadership! I did resign, but the chairman refused to accept it, pending a meeting between the pastor and I. (That will be at 2pm today.)
At this point I am finished, my sole purpose is to mend fences with the pastor, and make sure there isn't anything personal left gumming up the works.
I honestly love this man. He has a heart for God, the church and the community and gives of himself repeatedly. But this new turn in his policy has built a wall where one hadn't existed before. I am 100% OK with the wall, even though I am on the outside now. As long as he defends his beliefs soundly and using scripture, I can continue to hold him in high regard. I just think he is making some mistakes trying to implement an agenda that only he is fully aware of.
When we meet, once we clear up any personal issues, I am going to give him my resignation, which must be accepted. I have great peace on that score.

> Do you mind providing some Scriptural support for that statement?

The most important thing to see is that Mosaic Law is an outgrowth of the Abrahamic covenant made in Genesis 17, rather than something opposite or disconnected. When you separate the two, the land promises made to Abraham go unfulfilled and circumcision takes on a connotation of both grace and law, which contradicts Romans 2:25. The Mosaic Law grows out of the promise God makes in Genesis 17. That is the covenant God remembered when He carried the Jews out of Egypt and gave them Canaan.

Passages such as Exodus 6:1-10, Joshua 5, Genesis 15:18, Exodus 23:31, Joshua 1:3, Exodus 32:13, Psalm 105:8-10, Leviticus 26, and Galatians 3.

A great comparison of the three views (Mosaic and Abrahamic are both law; Abrahamic is grace and Mosaic is law; Mosaic and Abrhamic are both grace) can be found in Pascal Denault's Distinctiveness of Baptist Covenant Theology. It's obviously in favor of the baptist view, but is a resource that has helped me greatly.

> what do people specifically have in mind when they use words like "administration" and "republication"? Are they synonymous?

To the best of my understanding, yes, they are roughly the same thing. "Substance", in Presbyterian covenant theology is roughly the purpose of the covenant and "administration" is the how the covenant is administered. Republication is the "re-administration" of a previous covenant. Republication is usually restricted to addressing the covenant of works, because the covenant of works is seen as failing with Adam, so it's "re-administered" later on, in a temporal sense with a different outcome. The covenant of grace is not republished because it never failed and will never fail. It is continuous and has no end.

> Would you mind detailing the reasons for traditional Presbyterians to believe in the Mosaic Covenant to be an administration of the Covenant of Grace?

The majority of the arguments for the Mosaic covenant being a covenant of grace is the stipulations for the forgiveness of sins built into the law. I am familiar with the argument, but I have never found this argument compelling, especially in light of passages such as Hebrews 10:4, 2 Corinthians 3:7-8, and Romans 4:15.

Additionally, the second argument is that the law is gracious in that it pushes people into the arms of Christ, but this can be accomplished from a covenant of works and does not necessitate the substance of the law be grace.

A third and final argument I have heard for the law being a covenant of grace is that God made a covenant when He didn't have to, but isn't that true with even the Adamic covenant of works? It's probably the weakest of the three.

Besides Presbyterians who really dive into covenant theology, seeing the law as a covenant of grace proves difficult to defend, at least in my experience. There is a growing movement within both the PCA and the OPC where the Mosaic Law is seen as a unique covenant of works (republication). The continental reformed churches even allow for the adherence to republication.

In my experience, trying to reconcile Paul's teachings of the law and the teaching that the law is actually inherently grace is what pushed me to the 1689 LBCF.

> Thank you so much, again! I think I'm slowly (but surely) starting to piece covenantal theology together.

No problem at all! As always, feel free to ask any more questions you may have.

Somebody else already suggested r/Reformed, but I'll suggest a couple of less known subs. There's r/ReformedBaptist and r/1689Federalism. They're both low traffic subs, and the latter has just recently started, but there's still some good info to look into there.

Right now is a pretty exciting time for Baptists due to the "rediscovery" of our Reformed/ Calvinist roots. It's difficult to find Baptist scholarship of this caliber, but some names to look for include Richard Barcellos, James Renihan, and Pascal Denault. Some historic names to look into are Benjamin Keach, William Kiffin, John Gill, William Gadsby, Charles Spurgeon, A.W. Pink, and James Petigrue Boyce.

One place I'd recommend starting from is some books. Like I said, Baptists haven't written on this stuff in a while, so there are no recent Systematic Theologies that I'm aware of. The closest you'll find is A Body of Doctinal Divinity by John Gill (PDF warning) or Abstract Of Systematic Theology by James Petigru Boyce. If you prefer hard copies, you can probably find them on Amazon.

Next, if you've been studying Reformed Theology, you should be aware that Baptists have their own distinct Covenant Theology that does not lead to Infant Baptism. It's really unfortunate that so many Baptists discover Covenant Theology and throw it away because it leads to Infant Baptism. In our development of Covenant Theology, called 1689 Federalism, we use the idea of the covenants to formulate "Believer's Baptism". There others who reject our 1689 Federalism for what is called New Covenant Theology, which attempts to bridge Covenant Theology and Dispensationalism. All of this can be found online at Wikipedia if you want to read more about it. There's also some scholarship available on the topic. The Distinctives of Baptist Covenant Theology by Pascal Denault is a wonderful book to get started on this subject.

Finally, I encourage you to read the historic Baptist confessions. You can find the 1689 LBCF here. It is based off of the Westminster Confession that the Presbyterians use. It's almost identical, except for a few changes of wording, and it's Congregationalist and Credobaptist affirmations. The Baptists of the 17th Century based their confession on the Westminster Standards to show their unity in Reformed doctrine. Although most Reformed Paedobaptists like to say that we're not "R"eformed, there is very little difference between us in the grand scheme of things, and Baptists holding to the 1689 LBCF and 1646 LBCF are always included in discussions relating to historic Reformed faith.

I don't know if you've read any about Spurgeon, but he has been very inspirational to me:

This book is supposed to be the best biography out there currently on Spurgeon, but I have not read it. There are others that are good too, like this one.

If I think of any other people I'll reply back.

The Trail of Blood is actually a pretty late entry into the realm of Baptist Landmarkism.

Landmarkism develops out of what is known as Successionism, which is, properly speaking, what the Trail of Blood is about. Successionism is a (major) part of the larger system of Landmarkism, which was popularized by figures like J. R. Graves and B. H. Carrol in the 19th century.

Successionism was developed in response to something called Campbellism or the Stone-Campbell movement. This movement was a Restorationist movement that broke away from the Baptist church, claiming that they had better restored the New Testament Church than the Baptists had. The Stone-Campbell movement eventually led to the founding of the Disciples of Christ and Church of Christ/Christian Church denominations.

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The Baptist response to the Stone-Campbell movement was Successionism, developed by figures like G. H. Orchard in the 1850s. The purpose was to argue that Baptists did not need to restore the New Testament church as the Stone-Campbell movement claimed to because the Baptist church had always been the New Testament Church.

Successionism was integrated into the theology of J. R. Graves, which became known as Landmarkism. Landmarkism emphasized not only successionism but also the invalidity of non-Baptist churches.

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The Southern Baptist Convention rejected Landmarkism in 1859. Successionism was first formally disproved by William H. Whitsitt in 1896 when he published "A Question in Baptist History."

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Despite these condemnations of Landmarkism/successionism, the theory was popular enough among the laity that Whitsitt was forced to resign as President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. The movement reached its height in the early 20th century under the leadership of figures like Ben Bogard.

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Today, the best academic refutation specifically focused on this issue is by William McGoldrick: "Baptist Successionism: a Crucial Question in Baptist History." (Note the similar title to Whitsitt's work. It can be found here: https://www.amazon.com/Baptist-Successionism-Crucial-Question-Monograph/dp/0810827263

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Successionism is, as others have already noted, bogus. But, it is not propaganda for propaganda's sake. It was a theory developed in a context to help the Baptist church survive the enormous competition for believers in the 2nd Great Awakening and the westward expansion of America.

Out of curiosity, why do you want modern?

I've been reading Covenant Theology: From Adam to Christ recently. It might be the best book on CT from a baptistic perspective out there, though its 300+ years old. Alternatively The Distinctiveness of Baptist Covenant Theology is excellently done, scholarly and modern. It can be a bit tedious, since it was originally written in French as a master's thesis.

From a presbyterian perspective, I read The Christ of the Covenants and found it excellent and winsome. A number of reformed colleges and seminaries use it as a textbook.

You should be able to get any of those from the Christian Book Nook, or I can lend them to you at church on Sunday if you'd rather save some cash.

> So: what is your take on the subject?

Long story short, I too was drawn to Reformed theology and had to ask myself many questions about paedobaptism. In my case my study was both personal and academic (I wrote a 30 page paper on the development of covenantal paedobaptism for my secular schooling). At the end of my study I remained staunchly and firmly credobaptist, now I'm a confessional Reformed Baptist in a Baptist seminary.

> like the dispensationalism vs covenant theology vs new covenant theology debate, I really don't know what to think. It is alkso the position I came to after studying to topic.

Have you heard of 1689 Federalism? 1689 Federalism is the way the early Particular Baptist approached the topic.

> Essentially, as far as I understand it, it is said that baptism is really the sacrament of circumcision for the new covenant.

And that's one of the key places where covenantal paedobaptists go wrong. While circumcision was the sign of the Old Covenant and Baptism is the sign of the New Covenant, the fulfillment of physical circumcision is circumcision of the heart, aka regeneration. Here's a good take on circumcision and baptism.

In general I would really recommend this blog, the author is an excellent Reformed Baptist writer and historian. He has a lot on baptism, circumcision, and 1689 Federalism. The blog also interacts with R Scott Clark a lot, I saw someone recommended him earlier.

If you would like are also penalty of historic works from Baptists in which they articulated and defend their views. For example, John Gill's writings and those of James Haldane (Presbyterian churchman turned Baptist) are quite good.

There are also a lot of modern books that I would recommend, two being Baptism of Disciples Alone by Fred Malone and The Distinctiveness of Baptist Covenant Theology by Pascal Denault. Again these are just a few of many.

I know this was a lot of link dumping (and this was just the tip of the iceberg), but it always sad to see when Baptists come to Reformed theology they skip right over the rich and mighty historic Particular/Reformed Baptist tradition and head right into Paedobaptist works, thinking that's all there is by way of Reformed scholarship.

God bless.

So you assume they are unreasonable and can't be changed and have their mind opened, just like they have certain assumptions about you? Sounds like both sides have some pretty strong biases and boxes they have put the other side in. But yeah, if that's your perception then I guess violence is the only answer for you.

But it honestly just sounds like you're just as much in need of a person to talk to and reason with as the racist guy in this video.

People can absolutely change, and be reasoned with, but yes, it does take more effort than throwing a punch does. I hope you can open yourself up to that possibility some day. If you're interested, below are a few suggestions of stuff to read/listen to by people who have been pulled back from, or pulled others back from, that kind of bias and racism.

Unfollow by Megan Phelps-Roper (or her [TED Talk] (https://www.ted.com/talks/megan_phelps_roper_i_grew_up_in_the_westboro_baptist_church_here_s_why_i_left.Megan/discussion))
NPR's Interview with a former Neo Nazi Christian Picciolini
NPR's Interview with Son of KKK Grand Wizard Don Black, Derek Black.
Accidental Courtesy: Daryl Davis, Race, and America

Allison is also a good option, but I'd start with one focused on the history rather than the theology and then move to Allison once the bigger storyline is nailed down. Eventually, when he's ready for the real fun he can move on to Garrett.

>What on earth even is a helpmeet? Is it a religious thing?

Is a fundamentalist thing, usually Baptist, usually part of the "quiver full" movement, and almost always involved in homeschooling. The Duggar from the show 19 Kids and Counting are involved in it.

http://nogreaterjoy.org/blogs/createdtobehishelpmeet/

These people also be a book about raising children, whose methods have been linked to the deaths of least three children.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Pearl#Controversy_over_To_Train_Up_a_Child

My ex wife and her family started to go down this path (and have continued to since our divorce). Thankfully I was able to get full custody of our children.

There's a great book written by a woman and her husband who escaped that lifestyle, if you are interested. It is very much a cult, and creepy as hell. I highly recommend this book, if you know anyone in that lifestyle or are curious about things like that.

I Fired God: My Life Inside---and Escape from---the Secret World of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Cult https://www.amazon.com/dp/1250026261/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_vIYvzbTX1XKD6

There are not too many big name theologians who hold that view (actually, there aren't too many big name Reformed Baptists).

The best book that I have personally read on the topic is this book by Pascal Denault

This book I have not read, but I have heard really good things about. It's a compilation of different authors like Richard Barcellos, Jim Renihan, James White, Tom Hicks, etc.

Probably. I'd recommend Renewing God's People by Foster and Holloway or Reviving the Ancient Faith by Hughes. The Foster book is a short read, and the Hughes book is pretty quick to get through also. All the authors are from Churches of Christ, but Foster in particular is an excellent historian. Foster has other brief books that go into detail about the other branches of the Stone-Campbell movement.

Pascal Denault has a good smaller work, but I know there are people at the Institute for Reformed Baptist Studies who are currently working on more comprehensive systematic treatments :)

Well, tell her to get use to drunken, lesbian sex while reading Hustler and Playgirl in the girls dorm. Seriously, that has to be one of the funniest and enlightening books I ever read about christian culture.

As others have pointed out, the origin of the Church of Christ is in the Stone-Campbell 19th century restorationist movement. If you are interested in the background of the movement I highly recommend Richard Hughes' book Reviving the Ancient Faith: The Story of Churches of Christ in America.

I advocate we add Keach's Catechism by Benjamin Keach and an Orthodox Catechism (1680) by Hercules Collins to our list of confessional documents, since they pretty widely used and/or respected by Reformed & Particular Baptists today.

I recommend The Distinctiveness of Baptist Covenant Theology by Pascal Denault. It was very helpful for me because I knew I was covenantal, but wasn’t convinced of paedobaptism. He offers the 1689 view of covenant theology which is more nuanced and yet doesn’t fall into New Covenant Theology.

I would say that a few books to maybe go through are The Baptist Story: From English Sect to Global Movement by Chute, Finn, and Haykin and Why I Am a Baptist by Moore, Nettles, Grudem, Mohler, and others. Both books are solid and easy reads, with the former covering more of the history as well as some of the Baptist distinctives, and the latter getting more doctrinal and also anecdotal.

I do remember reading that there were several movements in the 1700's about Agape/Love feasts being reinstituted in several churches like the Church of the Brethren. And a lot of the people from the Restoration Movement grew up in church environments like that. But it was a while ago that I read that. I think it was the book: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0891121544/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

To respectfully disagree with /u/JudimSkoch, I would look at Abstract of Systematic Theology By James P. Boyce [PDF] and at Manual of Theology [PDF], Treatise on Church Order, and The Elements of Moral Science by John L. Dagg.

Currently reading:

The Distinctiveness of Baptist Covenant Theology and it is very enlightening. I believe I fall in the 1689 Federalism camp, though I have not read much of NCT...

I found this book to be very helpful.

https://www.amazon.com/Baptist-Theology-Doing-Stephen-Holmes/dp/0567000311

^This by Stephen Holmes is a good start. It's simple and really more of a history than a theology

Or this by David Bebbington:

https://www.amazon.com/Baptists-through-Centuries-History-Global/dp/1602582041/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1497578874&sr=1-9&keywords=Baptist+history

If you want a book about Baptists theology more specifically Southern Baptist book check out Why I Am a Baptist by Tom J. Nettles

Unfollow by Megan Phelps-Roper

She was a member of the Westboro Baptist Church, born into it, and participated wholeheartedly in its shenanigans for 25 years. Then she left.

As someone who also went through a rough deconversion experience (though from a denomination decidedly less whackadoodle than Westboro), I could relate to so much of what she wrote.

I'm going speak up for strong language too with this one as I had been published because I did employ the f-strike. Let's not borrow our strong language from the Latter Day Saints. Warning: I am going to say FUCK in this comment and will defend this word because the author behind I Fired God it's a guess she found my roster at some point. She swears as hard as in The Pattern Of Diagnosis. Telling an Italian not to swear is rude to the culture as in telling them to watch their language they're going to be called a 'cazzo.'

I have been in this fight since I was 20 years old; as I had those pulling Fundie Copypasta because I had employed use of the f-bomb. I will message you in private because I had invoked a lot of controversy because the guys on Issue Five of my mag became the embodiment of the House Divided Speech.

My alumni are going to cause a real stir because he had this on his page; Habakkuk 2:2 as the King James Version. Tim blocked me from commenting because I said "fuck" in the comments.

And in this comment I am going to defend this word from other Christians because "fuck" has a history. I will provide my literary journals fifth issue to help you speak out against censorship and let's not hide behind Ephesians to be censorship advocates. Christians trying to speak out against the finger, as I am going to say that's telling the Greeks they don't give a shit about Ancient Greece or Philosophy. As I am about to invite everyone to read up because it's a guess that the Apostle Paul was given this gesture when he did Ephesians as I see young earth creationists with this statement on their facebook page.

>CUSSING, BLASPHEMY, and ABUSE WILL BE BANNED!

I guess he hasn't invoked cram it clownie or make the joke of being my first boy scout troop being the one who instigated the urban legend. Rebuking Hovind and the controversy I invoked when I did it was all for laughs. I have this petition which I started for The Boondocks creator; read the entire thing and look into the information I provided as I am defending the use of strong language. When one seen The Babylon Bee pull off some equally nasty barbs; as Fox News caught wind of them over the TBN barb. When one sees Paul Crouch showing the finger, then you see the barb as even funnier.

I can recommend a few things. For some reason I like reading books about people who have escaped from fundamentalist sects. These may not be exactly what you're looking for but you might want to give them a try.

• I Fired God: My Life Inside - and Escape from -the Secret World of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Cult by Jocelyn Zichterman. This is a book written by a woman who grew up in the IFB church (the same kind of church the Duggars belong to) and she talks about how abusive her childhood was because of it. Eventually she and her husband leave the church and have to cut off contact with her family.
  
  
• Banished: Surviving My Years in the Westboro Baptist Church by Lauren Drain. Lauren's family joined the WBC when she was a teenager. She was later excommunicated and had to learn to make her own way in the world. The rest of her family still belongs to the church.
  
  
• Cut Me Loose: Sin and Salvation After My Ultra-Orthodox Girlhood by Leah Vincent. This is actually about a woman leaving ultra-orthodox Judaism but her struggle with no longer being part of the only world she's ever known is very similar to what I've read in books about people leaving Christianity. It's a brutally honest memoir but it the ending is happy.
  
  
• Keep Sweet: Children of Polygamy by Debbie Palmer. This one is written by a woman who grew up in the fundamentalist Mormon community of Bountiful. She suffered some severe abuse in both childhood and and as an adult. She made her escape when she saw the same things happening to her children.