(Part 2) Reddit mentions: The best christian spiritual growth books

First of all, welcome back, brother. I am especially touched that your fiancée would even suggest to find a Catholic Church. (As an aside, you're not a convert; you're a revert since you're already baptized into the Church. I thought maybe you'd appreciate that factoid.)

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>I am looking for information about your Church, whatever you think is important to know.

There is a lot to know and many here would recommend a million and one things to study, especially since it sounds like you enjoy a good intellectual pursuit. I'm not going to discount others' recommendations, but I do want to highlight one thing: learn more about Jesus first. Find out what He taught, who He is, what His disciples and closest friends said about Him, what the Old Testament said about Him, etc. To that end...

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>I am looking for recommendations for a Catholic-approved version of the Bible, geared towards someone who appreciates philosophy and prefers something close to the original translations, or the most accepted by the Church.

First thing to note, all Catholic Bibles have 72 books. Protestants have 66. If you can't get a hold of a Catholic Bible, a Protestant one will do for now until you do get around to buying a Catholic one. Now, as for Catholic Bibles, if you speak/read Latin you can't go wrong with the Vulgate Bible. It's a Bible that was translated by St. Jerome who was fluent in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin; he had the original manuscripts -- some of which are lost to us today -- so his translations are widely accepted as authentic and faithful.

There's also the English version of the Vulgate Bible known as the Douay-Rheims. It's an almost word-for-word translation of the Latin so the English will sound archaic to our modern ears. It's not as frustrating as, say, reading Shakespeare but it's pretty close. I personally prefer (and currently use) a Douay-Rheims Bible that has the Clementina Vulgata beside it. It's essentially Latin and English side by side. You can find one here.

If want one with plain English, the New American Bible Revised Edition would suffice. (If you use this website, let me know. I have a discount code from my last purchase.)

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>I know nothing of the culture or norms of the Church, or what to expect as a new member.

One major rule to remember is that you can't receive Holy Communion until after you've gone to Confession. Given your situation, I would recommend setting up an appointment with a parish priest so he can give his full attention to you and your needs.

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>I do not know how to introduce myself to the congregation

There's usually no need to introduce yourself to the congregation since parishes tend to be big. If you would like to formally introduce yourself, however, give the parish priest a call and set up a meeting with him. It would also be a great chance to speak with him about your situation and get some pastoral guidance.

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>or tell a good Catholic church from a lesser one

Many here would recommend a more traditional parish. If that's not available, I'd say any Catholic church would do. If you're unsure about a particular church's standing, just give us the details on this sub. I'm sure someone here would be able to double check for you.

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>I know nothing of the Saints or the miracles, or what has been confirmed by the Church and what hasn't.

These are things you can learn later on. Focus on Jesus first. Rebuild your relationship with Him. Start with the basics; if you don't, you might burn yourself out. There is A LOT to learn about the Faith. Some say it's a lifelong endeavour. :P

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>I am also looking for a reading list to explore Catholic philosophy beyond those you typically encounter in standard philosophical reading, such as Aquinas or Pascal.

Hmmm... this depends on what sorts of things interest you. A good one that lightly touches on philosophy is Socrates Meets Jesus by Peter Kreeft (anything by this guy is pretty good, by the way).

A book that may be more pressing to your current situation is Why Be Catholic? by Patrick Madrid and Abraham Skorka, Why We're Catholic by Trent Horn, as well as Why I am a Catholic by Brandon Vogt. (They might need to work on a more original title, though :P) Since you have an Evangelical background, Crossing the Tiber by Steve Ray might be helpful (although it can be a bit dry; also, it mostly deals with the Church's teaching on Baptism and the Eucharist) as well as Rome Sweet Home by Scott and Kimberly Hahn.

You can never go wrong with classics such as a collection of C. S. Lewis' works, The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri, The Seven Story Mountain by Thomas Merton, and Confessions by St. Augustine.

If you want a historical examination of Jesus and the Early Church, a good place to start is The Case for Christ by Brant Pitre, The History of the Church: From Christ to Constantine by St. Eusebius, and The Fathers Know Best by Jimmy Akin. I'd like to thrown in Jesus, Peter, and the Keys by Scott Butler, Norman Dahlgren, and David J. Hess. This last one pertains to the Catholic claim regarding the papacy (and which I think is one of the strongest arguments in favour of the Catholic Church being the original one that the Lord founded).

Finally, there are YouTube channels you can follow/binge watch such as Bishop Robert Barron and Ascension Presents. Also, an amazing video about the Catholic Faith is a series made by Bishop Barron when he was "just" a priest called Catholicism.

I'm sorry if that's overwhelming but you raised some good questions. :P Anyway, I imagine it may be a lot right now so take it slowly, don't dive in through all of it at once. Find a local Catholic church, call up the priest, set up a meeting, then take it from there. And remember, you can always pray; God's always willing to talk with you.

> What are the top five resources you would recommend to learn more about continuationism?

• First, I'd watch the Convergence Conference - Sam Storms, Matt Chandler, Francis Chan discussing the miraculous gifts of the Spirit in a frank and accessible way.
  
  
• Second, I'd watch John Wimber's 1984 Signs and Wonders Conference - In the rough words of John Piper, "Wimber was a good theologian". He gives a very practical theological framework for understand the place and function of the gifts as well has how to see where the Spirit is at work.
  
  
• Third, I'd read Jack Deere's Surprised by the Power of the Spirit - Jack Deere was a Dallas Theological Seminary cessationist Bible scholar who began practicing the gifts of the Spirit and now equips others to do so. It's an excellent book. (I own it on Kindle and can lend it to anyone for 14 days - you don't need a Kindle and can read it on your phone, browser, etc - just PM me an email address and I'll send it to whoever PMs first).
  
  
• Fourth, I'd start practicing. The things about the gifts of the Spirit is that they are experiential by nature. You can learn everything there is to know about swimming, but if you never jump in the water, it's all just head knowledge. These resources are rich sources of ideas and methods to start "Practicing the Power" as Sam Storms would say. For me, the gateway into the gifts was evangelism - I love Jesus and desperately want the lost and dying world to hear the Gospel presented like this once again: "My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power," - 1 Corinthians 2:4 - and I can think of no way to demonstrate the Spirit's power without the gifts of the Spirit.
  
  
• Fifth, I'd find which gift you are gravitating towards. I believe that we can all "ask and receive" when it comes to any gift. However, I believe the Lord has wired us all in specific ways so that we can glorify His name best through certain callings. When you feel a specific call towards a gifting (it can be anything - I consider helps and hospitality just as empowered by the Spirit as prophecy), start pushing into all the books and teachings you can find on that specific gifting. Also, seek every opportunity you can to practice the gifts - Paul told Timothy to fan to flame the charismatic gift given through the laying on of hands. There is something about practicing that demonstrates stewardship which results in greater talents given.
  
  > And when you talk about the expansive nature of it, does it seem to fit inside the “box” (for lack of a better term) that the examples in the Bible put forth?
  
  I should note very carefully that the NAR movement is different from traditional charismatic waves in that they have essentially taken this thing "to the next level". For example, Sam Storms would say that Jesus heals the sick and we should pursue the gifts. Some of these NAR churches have teams of of people that seek to raise the dead and get it on film (the next level). This said, not everything that comes from the movement is fully biblical in my opinion. For initial learning, I would stick with sources like Sam Storms, Matt Chandler, Francis Chan, Jack Deere, and John Wimber. These will ground you in solid theology so that when you hear the NAR crowd, you will be better equipped to test the spirits and separate the meat from the bone. There is meat, faith, and a desperately-needed boldness in the movement. But I'd only start listening to these sources when you feel you have a good biblical grasp of each of the gifts.
  
  > In addition, how did you first learn about and get involved in this?
  
  It all started from a sickness my wife had. We spent two years with her diagnosis going from bad to worst. The doctors didn't really have much hope for the situation. We entered a period of brokenness where surrender to God was really all we could do. The only verse we knew was the James passage about asking elders to pray for you if sick. We went to our leaders (in a large Baptist church) asking for prayer for healing. They anointed her with oil and began to pray for her. She was healed miraculously and on the spot of several conditions. The most dramatic was her spine - she had strong scoliosis which twisted her spine and caused a fist-sized painful knot of muscle to be present at all times (I used to spend hours massaging it to relieve the pain). When they prayed for her, we came asking for an entirely separate condition...but the very first thing they prayed for was her spine (without us telling them about it). I had my hand next to her spine and felt a heat as though I had stuck my hand into an oven - her spine straightened on the spot and has remained straight since. The symptoms of the main condition disappeared immediately as well - one year later, (to the exact date), the doctors took her off all medication and said, "you're good".
  
  This set me on a course of learning - if God was still healing through the hands of His children, I had to learn so that others could experience the love of God like I had. I then read about 100 books on spiritual gifts, the Spirit-filled life, evangelism in the power of the Spirit...basically anything I could get my hands on.
  
  The learning eventually wasn't enough - God's love compelled me to start sharing Christ with people. My personality type is introverted, so I really had issues approaching random people, so I had to rely on God and ask Him for direction. Long story short, when we go out and do evangelism, we pray ahead of time for specific details regarding people we will encounter. We write it down and about 85% of the time we've found the person the Lord directed us to. There's freedom - we don't always do this, sometimes we just talk to random people about Jesus - we've seen fruit both ways.

A couple of passages to consider:

>And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast. (Matthew 9:15 ESV)

> “And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
(Matthew 6:16-18 ESV)

Going by the first verse, I think we learn that fasting is meant for a period of life that is sorrowful or more serious. For example if we must make a very difficult decision or we are seeking the Lord to turn away from some grievous sin we have committed before Him. Fasting then would not be appropriate during a time of great joy. During times like those, celebration is called for. Likewise I believe the Lord is saying that the disciple's weren't fasting because of the joyous period of their lives when He was near them. On the other hand, the appropriateness of fasting during times of mourning also seems to be taught in the second passage, when he says, "do not look gloomy." The Pharisees were hypocritically showing on the outside what should have been shown only before the Lord in their hearts.

I don't think fasting is a moral commandment, but is something the Lord wants us to do out of the abundance of our hearts, much like giving away our money/possessions to help the church and others. Both of these practices can easily become sources of pride and asceticism if our hearts are not humble and worshipful, but we can pray to the Lord to help us have the right heart and mind in these things.

Donald Whitney, who has written a lot about spiritual disciplines such as fasting, wrote an article that you might find helpful. You can read it here. He also has a book called Spiritual Disciplines, which you may find helpful.

Yeah, Reddit debates are difficult because people open up 50,000,000 lines of attack and it becomes almost impossible to dialog. I'm trying to constrain my points to one or two issues at a time to allow clarity and simplicity. This said, I'll give a response to what you've specifically asked for.

> Please respond to my claim that Hebrews 1 and 2 declare explicitly that God bore witness of those who heard the Lord with the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Here's the verse:

"It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will." - Hebrews 2:3-4

And here's a direct response from Dr. Jack Deere in the book I've used in the past with you (worth a read if you want to get an answer to all of your burning questions)


> "The word translated as “confirmed,” bebaioo, is also used of Christ’s confirming the promises of God to the patriarchs (Rom. 15:8) and of God strengthening his servants (1 Cor. 1:8; 2 Cor. 1:21; Col. 2:7; Heb. 13:9). But it is never used of miracles confirming a servant. Hebrews 2:3-4 is frequently used by cessationists to prove that miracles ceased with the apostles. The author of Hebrews asks us: How shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will. The author of Hebrews is not limiting this text to the apostles. He does not say that the message was confirmed by the apostles, but that the message was confirmed “by those who heard” the Lord. The apostles were not the only ones who heard the Lord. Others heard him also, and others did miracles and received miraculous gifts of the Spirit. In other words, the writer of the book of Hebrews seems to be saying that neither he, nor his audience, heard the Lord directly nor saw his miracles directly. They first heard the message about the Lord Jesus through “those who had heard him” directly. When they heard this message, God confirmed it by working signs and wonders through the group that preached to them. It could have been the apostles who preached to them, but it also could have been others who had originally heard the Lord. The text certainly leaves open the possibility that God will confirm with miracles the message about the Lord Jesus when it is preached by others who did not hear Jesus directly."

Cessationists, it's worth a read to at minimum understand our refutation of your arguments.

https://www.amazon.com/Surprised-Power-Spirit-Zondervan/dp/0310211271/

And here is Dr. Ruthven from Regent Theological in his masterpiece, On the Cessation of the Charismata, which is called the "nail in the coffin" of Warfield's arguments (basically what most cessationists quote these days):

> The second passage, Hebrews 2: 4,again, makes no necessary connection between the miraculous operations of the Spirit and the specific accreditation of the Apostles. The passage describes three more or less parallel “witnesses” to the same gospel: the Lord, His hearers, and God via the distributed charismata. In Biblical tradition “two or three witnesses” presenting the same message guarantee its certainty (Deut. 17: 7; 19: 15; Mt. 18: 16; 1 Cor. 14: 27; 2 Cor. 13: 1). The miracles in this context do not “accredit” the Kingdom of God, but are a manifestation of it: they are not proofs of the gospel; they are the gospel. The English expression “sign” may well suggest an image of a “sign post,” having little intrinsic significance except as it points to something of vastly greater importance. Certainly this is Warfield’s notion of sign/miracle, but as in the case of the “signs of a true apostle” above, the very characteristic of the Christian message was that it came expressed in “word and deed” (prophecy and miracle) two aspects of the Kingdom of Heaven breaking both the mental and physical bondage characterizing the kingdom of this age. The passage further suggests that the gifts of the Spirit were distributed to the Christian community at large, rather than restricted to Apostles (cf. 1 Cor. 12: 7 and 11; Rom. 12: 6 and 1 Pet. 4: 10). In this context, then, these “signs, wonders, miracles and gifts of the Spirit” do not appear as proofs of apostolic authority but the normative expression/ confirmation of the gospel working in acts of divine power working in and through the Christian community. The proof texts Warfield positively offers as support for cessationism can be interpreted, in fact, as contradicting it.

https://www.amazon.com/Cessation-Charismata-Protestant-Post-biblical-Miracles-Revised/dp/0981952623/

And here's Sam Storms basically saying the same thing:

http://www.samstorms.com/enjoying-god-blog/post/hebrews-2-and-the-continuationist---cessationist-debate

> Fourth, nothing in the text asserts that these miraculous phenomena must be restricted either to those who personally heard the Lord or to those who heard the message of salvation secondhand. Why wouldn’t God continue to testify to the message when it is preached by others in subsequent generations? In other words, in saying that God “bore witness” to the people of the early church he is not necessarily saying that God never “bore witness” for the benefit of those in the church of more recent days.

Kudos to you for wanting to diversify your reading list. Reading or listening to only one person is always a dangerous thing, no matter who that might be. I've made a bunch of book recommendations on this sub in the past. Here are a few I think are a good fit for you specifically. In general, I'd also highly recommend all of the works by the authors listed.

• Letters to a Young Calvinist: An Invitation to the Reformed Tradition by Jamie Smith. This is always my top recommendation for the young person looking for more depth. It's a quick easy read best digested in small parts. It does a great job of providing an overview of the Reformed tradition that is accessible, theological, and pastoral. It's aimed at those who have a 'come-to-Calvin' moment from within other theological traditions (Smith was Pentecostal) but would benefit everyone.
  
  
• Chosen by God and/or The Holiness of God by R.C. Sproul. Sproul is simply the best at explaining complex theological concepts in an easy to understand manner. These are his two best books in my opinion, but anything he has written is worth a read.
  
  
• The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis. This is a satirical work where Lewis describes temptation from the vantage point of a junior and senior demon. The discription may sound odd, but it is full of insights into the state of mankind. Given your comments about temptation, I'd call this one a must read. Lewis was a master communicator, consider Mere Christianity as well.
  
  
• Deep Down Faith by Cornelius Plantinga. This one is a devotional aimed at young adults, but an excellent explanation of Reformed Faith. Highly recommended.
  
  
• Knowing God by J.I Packer - This is a classic book that, in the words of Elizabeth Elliot, "puts the hay where the sheep can reach it--plainly shows us ordinary folks what it means to know God." I don't know that there are many books that every Christian needs to read, but this one is definitely on the list.
  
  Lastly, I'd encourage you to read through some of the Reformed Confessions. Begin with the Heidelberg Catechim and the Belgic Confession. If you want a more modern approach, I'd encourage you to also read the Christian Reformed Church's Contemporary Testimony Our World Belongs To God, too.

It's an excellent choice. Like others have said, reading more than one book with different viewpoints on Christian fundamentals is a good idea, which is why I love threads like this, so thanks for posting.

Here are some suggestions from my own explorations in the last few years.

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Mere Christianity

What Christians Believe by the venerable Bishop Ken Myers (im_just_throwing_this_out_there)

Essential Truths of the Christian Faith by R.C. Sproul, for more of a basic Reformed theology perspective

Dogmatics in Outline by Karl Barth, for a Reformed-ish (emphasis on the "ish") perspective sometimes called "neo orthodoxy". It's a summary of a much (much) larger work, and it's probably the toughest read out of the other books I'm recommending, because it encapsulates quite a bit of his very complex thought in a pretty short space.

The Orthodox Way by Bishop Kallistos Ware for an eye-opening perspective and well-written about a tradition I knew nothing about from my American, Baptist/evangelical upbringing.

The Catholic Religion by Vernon Staley, which is actually about the Anglican church. This was recommended to me by an Anglican redditor.

Someone already recommended Simply Christian by N.T. Wright. I'm about halfway through this right now. Being a regular on this sub, where his theology is pretty popular, I wouldn't say it's mind-blowing to me, but your mileage may vary. It's certainly a good read so far; his writing style is clear and easy to read (I think even easier than Lewis), and it seems like a good jumping off point for further exploration (he has other books I want to read, and I figured I'd start with his introductory book first).

Yes, yes, yes. If you're an iphone user I recommend the app called Breathe that will walk you through what to do. I also recommend "Silence" by Robert Sardello, and "Finding God in the Waves" by Mike McHargue of Ask Science Mike and The Liturgists fame (link to their enneagram episode). In his chapter on prayer McHargue goes through 3 forms of 'christian' meditation (which I'll pm to you immediately after posting this.) and Sardello speaks on the mystery and comfort in the companionship of Silence (meditation/the holy spirit/the tao).

I recommend the latter for this reason, "Among the things learned is the way out of the confines of the oppressive nature of our egotism, which takes innumerable forms, the most impressive being that of acting as if one's religious demeanor, acquired by reading and even studying what the mystics have experienced and the theologians have theorized about, qualifies one as a lover of Silence." There is some portion of your '3w2-ness' that pushes you to seek efficacious loving and acceptance, helping your S.O. here and at the same time fulfilling some ego fixation in the process.

Sorry for the unsolicited thoughts, hopefully the above resources point you to some peace!

My top suggestion would be the Book of Concord and exploring the Just and Sinner Podcast archive. You will get a fair, balanced, and orthodox take on Lutheranism.

As others have said, Spirituality of the Cross is one of the better, single serving overviews of what Lutherans believe, as well.

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Here is a list of other Lutheran resources:

Lutheran Theology Books

1. Book of Concord
   
2. The Saving Truth: Doctrine for Laypeople: Kurt E. Marquart
   
3. Law and Gospel - Walther
   
4. Justification - Chemnitz
   
5. Loci Communes - Melanchthon
   
6. Liturgical Worship: A Lutheran Introduction
   
7. Hand of Faith - Pr. Jordan Cooper
   
8. A Case for Character - Pr. Joel Biermann
   
9. Justification and Rome - Pr. Robert Preus
   
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   Websites
   
   
10. Just and Sinner
    
11. Infant Theology
    
12. Around the World Theology - great mailing list with free resources and daily devotionals run by Pr. Bryan Wolfmueller
    
13. Cranrach - Gene Veith
    
14. Steadfast Lutherans Blog
    
15. Gottesdienst Crowd Blog
    
16. Pr. Mark Surburg Blog
    
17. Will Weedon’s Blog - great for patristics and liturgy
    
    ​
    
    Journals
    
    
18. Concordia Theological Quarterly - Fort Wayne: Tons of free research articles and talks
    
19. Global Journal of Classical Theology - Listed at end of Montgomery’s History, Law, and Christianity
    
20. Concordia Journal - St. Louis: Tons of free research articles and talks
    
21. Lutheran Witness
    
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    Podcast
    
    
22. Just and Sinner
    
23. Issues Etc.
    
24. Cross Defense (KFUO)
    
25. Concord Matters (KFUO)
    
26. Thy Strong Word (KFUO)
    
27. Gottesdienst Crowd
    
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    YouTube
    
    
28. Jordan Cooper - Just and Sinner
    
29. Lutheran Satire
    
30. Pr. Bryan Wolfmueller
    
31. WEtv
    
    ​
    
    Apologetics
    
    
32. Spirituality of the Cross - Gene Edward Veith
    
33. Tractatus Logico Theologicus - John Warwick Montgomery
    
34. History, Law and Christianity - John Warwick Montgomery
    
35. God’s Inerrant Word - John Warwick Montgomery Edited on inerrancy
    
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    Courses
    
    
36. Christian Doctrine - Concordia Seminary iTunes U
    
37. Philosophy 101 - Pr. Gregory Schulz Concordia University Wisconsin
    
38. Philosophy Kata Christon - Pr. Gregory Schulz Concordia University Wisconsin

Despite a traditional Christian teaching in the past 5 decades or so about God's will for your life, a wonderful plan, and all that, study of the Bible doesn't bear that out. A fantastic book by Garry Friesen, "Decision Making and the Will of God" (https://www.amazon.com/Decision-Making-Will-God-Alternative/dp/1590522052/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504297008&sr=8-1&keywords=Friesen+God%27s+will) deals very effectively and biblically with that misunderstanding. God has a specific plan of salvation that will not be derailed, but he doesn't have a plan for your life, like what socks I should wear today, what college I should go to, etc. (But if He really really does want you to go to a specific college, he will make sure you get there!) He expects us to be wise and make good choices, and He works with us to that end. He doesn't necessarily have a wonderful plan for your life. Jeremiah had a very difficult life, and Paul's wasn't exactly easy. In Hebrews 11, there's a list of the people of faith, but then at the end of the chapter there are a few verses that some people's lives don't (Heb. 11.35-38). God's "wonderful plan" is the plan of salvation. Nothing will stop that train. But as far as an individual plan for an individual life, not necessarily so. Obviously God called Paul to a specific task, but that doesn't mean it's that way for all of us. Instead of agonizing over finding God's will, we should live in the Spirit and make wise and godly decisions.

I'm a little rushed today, so I know I'm answering only briefly, but if you want to talk about it more, I'd be glad to.

Have you read Jack Deere's Surprised by the Power of the Spirit? https://www.amazon.com/Surprised-Power-Spirit-Zondervan/dp/0310211271/

Here's a lengthy quote in response to what you're saying here. This is from Deere interviewing prospective students to get into Dallas Theological Seminary's doctorate program:

> When I asked him a third question, namely, what he believed about the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit, his confidence seemed to return. Undaunted, he replied that they were not given any longer. Again, his reason for this was that it was the plain teaching of the Scriptures. I asked him what he thought was the strongest evidence from the Bible to support the passing away of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit. “The Bible teaches that there are only three periods where miracles were common in the history of God’s dealings with his people. They were common during the time of Moses and Joshua, Elijah and Elisha, and Christ and the apostles—three periods of two generations each. The next time miracles will be common will be during the reign of the Antichrist and the great Tribulation,” he replied without a moment’s hesitation. “Did you arrive at this position from a careful inductive study of the Scriptures?” I asked. “That’s correct.” At this point, I knew he was not telling the truth. He did not come to that position from a careful study of the Scriptures. Benjamin Breckenridge Warfield, the Princeton theologian, had popularized that position at the beginning of the twentieth century, with the result that reformed and dispensational theologians have been using it ever since. One or more of us had passed this teaching on to the student, and now he was trying to claim that he had gotten it by careful study of the Scriptures. His dishonesty was a little more than I was willing to tolerate, so I said, “Let’s see if you can defend that position now. Let’s start with chapter one of Genesis and think our way through every chapter of the Old Testament to see if the biblical evidence supports your theory. Remember, we should only find three periods in which miracles are common. What took place in the first chapter of the Bible?” “That is where God creates the world.” “How about chapter two?” “That is the story of the creation of the world with man at the center.” “Chapter three?” “That is where the Devil comes to Adam and Eve and tempts them to sin, and God has to expel them from the garden.” “Are these things miraculous?,” I asked. “Well yes, but you have to start somewhere.” “O.K., fine. Chapter four?” “The first murder,” he said. “Chapter five is a genealogy. What happens in chapters six to nine?” “That is where God wipes out the whole earth with the flood and rescues eight people in an ark, on which species of every living animal have been miraculously summoned.” “Chapter ten?” “Another genealogy.” “Chapter eleven?” “The Tower of Babel, where God comes down and confounds the language of all the families of the earth.” “So really the first eleven chapters of Genesis don’t actually fit your theory, do they?” “Yes, but that is primeval history; I mean you expect things like that at the very beginning.” “O.K., for the sake of argument let’s dismiss the first eleven chapters of the Bible. At chapter twelve and for the rest of the book of Genesis we move into simple narrative biography. What happens in chapter twelve?” “God sovereignly calls Abraham to leave Ur of the Chaldeans and go to a land where he is going to begin a program to redeem the entire world.” “Anything else strike you as supernatural or miraculous elsewhere in Abraham’s life?” “Well, in chapter fifteen there was that supernatural smoking oven and flaming torch that passed between the parts of the sacrifice Abraham had laid out (Gen. 15:17). Besides the divine conversation in chapter 17, the Lord and angelic beings appear to Abraham in chapter 18 and eat with Abraham. Then there was the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, when the heavens rained fire and brimstone on those cities (Gen. 19). Then there was the supernatural birth of Isaac in chapter twenty-one and the encounter with the angel of the Lord as he offered up Isaac on the altar in chapter twenty-two.” “So, the life of Abraham doesn’t really fit your theory that miracles or the supernatural are not common until the time of Moses and Joshua, does it?” “No.” “What about Isaac, Jacob or Joseph; anything there seem miraculous or supernatural to you?” “Chapter twenty-eight—the prophetic messianic vision of the angels ascending and descending on that ladder while Jacob slept.” “What else in Jacob’s life?” “Chapter thirty-two. He actually wrestles with God, or the preincarnate Christ, all night long. Then with Joseph there are all of those dreams and interpretations.” So I said, “As far as the evidence goes, the book of Genesis doesn’t fit your theory, does it?” “No.” “Now we are at the book of Exodus, and we have already said that Moses’ and Joshua’s life contain miracles and supernatural occurrences, so let’s skip from Exodus through the book of Joshua and come to the book of Judges. Anything in the book of Judges strike you as miraculous?” He said, “Well, the angel of the Lord actually appears to Gideon, and there is all that stuff going on with the fleece. Then the angel of the Lord appears to Samson’s parents, and there is the miraculous power of Samson.” “So the book of Judges doesn’t actually fit this theory, does it?” “No.” “What do you have in the book of 1 Samuel?” “A prophet whose words do not fall to the ground” (1 Sam. 3:19-21). And on and on the discussion went. In chapter after chapter the student was forced to list miraculous and supernatural occurrences that contradicted his assertion that miracles only occurred at three points in the history of Israel.1 The student was forced to admit not only that could he not defend his position, but that the Scriptures actually contradicted it.



Edit - I own the book and can send you my Kindle copy if you're interested in more. PM me an email and I'll send it your way.

I'm not very well-versed in universal themes, or in Islam, but I have a few sources that might help you with some of the Christian side of your research:

The Christian Classics Ethereal Library has free PDFs of many primary sources from the early church fathers. Christian belief has taken many different forms over the last two millennia, and seeing some of their unique perspectives might help inspire you.

Also, The Mosaic of Christian Belief covers a lot of the different views held by different Christian groups today. If you're looking for a wide variety of thoughts and positions, it might be a good place to start.

Edit:

For Christian ethics, you might look at N.T. Wright's book After You Believe, or Samuel Wells' Christian Ethics: An Introductory Reader which includes a lot of great selections from different writers throughout history.

u/tathougies has it. There is legitimate reason for the gov't to support 1m1w marriage because it can (and usually) does produce children. Gov't has a vested interest in making sure those children are raised well. Yes, not all marriages produce children, please don't bring that up as if I'm unaware of it. Given they're the exception to the rule, it's not relevant.

There's no other valid reason for gov't to be involved in marriage, why does gov't care who you love? Does gov't care who your best friend is? No. So all this talk about love is irrelevant, you can love whomever you want but there's no reason for gov't to get in the middle of it unless there's children or the possibility of children.

I highly recommend "What is Marriage?" and "Correct, Not Politically Correct" for a lot more in-depth look at the subject. Neither quotes the Bible or relies on it to make their case. "Correct, Not Politically Correct" is a lot shorter and more "layman" in its approach. Plus it has a handy Q&A in the back.

Take care!

Hello mrZNS. This is one of those great examples of Biblical diversity. One of the reasons this troubles you, probably, is that you've likely been taught to think of the Bible with a certain set of assumptions - those assumptions being that you can take little pieces of the Bible out of context (not only out of the context of the passage, but of the context of the entire Bible, as well as out of the "historical context" - the culture in which it was originally written) and then use them like a gavel - slamming them down in order to shut down conversation and win points. But the Bible is actually extremely diverse in its voices, as you might notice when you point passages like this (and Genesis 6:6, Jonah 3:10, and the scene where Abraham argues with God about destroying Sodom and Gomorrah even) towards passages that disagree, like Malachi 3:6, Numbers 23:19, and James 1:17.

It is problems like this that are one of the reasons I refuse to use the word "inerrant" anymore, but instead I use the word "infallible". It is important to note that the word "inerrant" or anything like it is never used within the Bible to describe itself - but rather, the Bible tells us that it is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, and that it equips us for good works (2 Tim. 3:16-17).

If you'd like to read more about this other way of thinking about the Bible, I've written some things - here, here, and here. I'd also highly recommend the following books:

The Bible Tells Me So: Why Defending Scripture Has Made Us Unable to Read It - this is a very easy read from one of my favorite scholars, Peter Enns. A more scholarly version of this book (with perhaps more details) is another by the same author:

Inspiration and Incarnation: Evangelicals and the Problem of the Old Testament

Also a great book by the same author:

The Evolution of Adam, What the Bible Does and Doesn't Say about Human Origins

Other similar books by different authors:

The Lost World of Scripture: Ancient Literary Culture and Biblical Authority - this one has more to do with how we came to have the collection of scriptures (namely, that our imagining of someone called an author of each book sitting down and writing the whole thing is not really how it would have happened).

This one is perhaps the most difficult to read, as it is the longest and has the most details:

God's Word in Human Words: An Evangelical Appropriation of Critical Biblical Scholarship

I will submit a Christian opinion if you don't mind Reddit. I think everyone needs to question their Faith. My advice is to get away from the Catholic church and explore different philosophies and definitely read some Christian literature as well. A few suggestions:


Mere Christianity - C.S. Lewis

The Language of God - Francis Collins

What's So Great About Christianity - Dinesh D'souza


Go explore for yourself. Actually reading and thinking about things for yourself is much more satisfying than sitting in religion class and being told to blindly follow. Best of luck!

Here are some ideas.

RC Sproul's Essential Truths of the Christian Faith is a great summary of many key ideas.

His The Holiness of God is a classic that packs quite the punch.

Also by Sproul, The Crucial Question booklet series is a great series of shorter booklets that explore a few important topics in a bit more depth without being overwhelming.

Sproul's What is Reformed Theology? is a decent overview that is pretty approachable.

Beeke's Living for God's Glory is a decent introduction that I think can be helpful in that it starts to unpack some of the broader implications.

Looking at creeds and confessions is also solid. Here are decent ones for the Westminster Confession of Faith (and this one too) and Westminster Shorter Catechism and the Heidelberg Catechism.

In case you want to watch instead, Ligonier Ministries will post 1 free video from their teaching series every day.

As for listening, there is Renewing Your Mind

I love CS Lewis. I highly recommend all his mateiral. But yes, no one is perfect.

Just read The Abolition of Man or Problem of Pain. Blows me out of the water.

Or the Weight of Glory, here's one of my favorite quotes of all time:

“It would seem that Our Lord finds our desires not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.”

― C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory, and Other Addresses

I just actually won in a contest the box set! - https://www.amazon.com/Lewis-Signature-Classics-Box-Set/dp/0062572563/

> Mark 9:14-29 ESV ^14 And when they came to the disciples, they saw a great crowd around them, and scribes arguing with them. ^15 And immediately all the crowd, when they saw him, were greatly amazed and ran up to him and greeted him. ^16 And he asked them, “What are you arguing about with them?” ^17 And someone from the crowd answered him, “Teacher, I brought my son to you, for he has a spirit that makes him mute. ^18 And whenever it seizes him, it throws him down, and he foams and grinds his teeth and becomes rigid. So I asked your disciples to cast it out, and they were not able.” ^19 And he answered them, “O faithless generation, how long am I to be with you? How long am I to bear with you? Bring him to me.” ^20 And they brought the boy to him. And when the spirit saw him, immediately it convulsed the boy, and he fell on the ground and rolled about, foaming at the mouth. ^21 And Jesus asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?” And he said, “From childhood. ^22 And it has often cast him into fire and into water, to destroy him. But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.” ^23 And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.” ^24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!” ^25 And when Jesus saw that a crowd came running together, he rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “You mute and deaf spirit, I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.” ^26 And after crying out and convulsing him terribly, it came out, and the boy was like a corpse, so that most of them said, “He is dead.” ^27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose. ^28 And when he had entered the house, his disciples asked him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?” ^29 And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer.”

Some manuscripts include "and fasting" at verse 29. Fasting is an outward sign of faith, so it certainly does not hurt to fast. It you do decide to fast, I strongly recommend taking necessary precautions, especially if you have preexisting health concerns. The book Celebration of Discipline by Richard J. Foster has a terrific chapter on fasting that I found very helpful.

My favorite author is C.S. Lewis,
but a more recent book that is really excellent is [What's So Great about Christianity] (http://www.amazon.com/Whats-So-Great-about-Christianity/dp/1414326017#) Dinesh D'Souza. This author takes the discussion in context of today's issues in a very respectful manner. Particularly those raised in regards to science, mystics, and atheist.

The existence of God doesn't have immediate evidence like a cancer diagnosis, but that doesn't mean there isn't any evidence for God. Christianity is not a blind faith.

https://www.amazon.com/Evidence-That-Demands-Verdict-Life-Changing/dp/1401676707/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1543478665&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=evidence+that+demands+a+verdict&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Case-Christianity-Homicide-Detective-Investigates/dp/1434704696/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543478756&sr=8-1&keywords=cold+case+christianity+by+j.+warner+wallace

Both of those authors were atheists or agnostics until they took the time to examine the evidence for the claims of Christianity. People like that don't completely change their life just because someone told them 'Yes, there is a God.' Wallace was a cold-case homicide detective and mocked Christians he knew.

>When I finally examined the evidence fairly using the tools I learned as a detective, I found it difficult to deny, especially if I hoped to retain my respect for the way evidence is utilized to determine truth. I found the evidence for Christianity as convincing as any cold-case I’d ever investigated. . . . I’m not a Christian because it “works” for me. I had a life prior to Christianity that seemed to be working just fine, and my life as a Christian hasn’t always been easy. I’m a Christian because it is true. I’m a Christian because I want to live in a way that reflects the truth. I’m a Christian because my high regard for the truth leaves me no alternative.

I'm not saying you should believe just because I say so or because a few authors write a few books about it. But doesn't it seem like there's enough evidence that you should take a seriously? If you're right about this, then you can move on with your life like nothing happened, and you would have more ammo if any other annoying Christians tried to convert you. But if you're wrong, then your eternal destiny hangs in the balance.

​

I'm a little late on this but there is a pretty good book by N.T. Wright (one the foremost contemporary christian authors) called [After You Believe] (http://www.amazon.com/After-You-Believe-Christian-Character/dp/0061730548/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398304793&sr=8-1&keywords=after+you+believe)

The book talks about the importance of Christian character and what that means. Basically, so much is made out of getting to the point of accepting Christ but there seems to be a big drop off for people after reaching that point. Wright's book is an explanation of what comes after that conversion moment.

It's not too long and its very well written. You should give it a shot.

First off, make sure she understands the difference between condemning homosexuals and condemning homosexual activity. Saying that you have a problem with sexual activity between two men or two women is completely different from saying you have a problem with people who have homosexual urges, regardless of whether or not they choose to act on them.

Next, I'd ask her why she believes homosexual activity is okay. Is this a special case, or does she believe that any sin against God is fine? If it's a special case, then she's been affected by society; if it's not, then she's got a serious problem with her theology.

If this is a special case in the "to each his own" mindset, then I'd give her reading material like Correct, Not Politically Correct or this article. Other than that, I'd say just listen to her explain why she believes this, and try to make sure you don't say anything bad about other people, regardless of their sexual orientation. In addition to violating one of the most important commandments, nothing will hurt your case more than being mean to other people.

If this isn't an isolated case, and she believes the "to each his own" mindset applies to all aspects of life (and some people do), then point out how this philosophy can't possibly be true if Christianity is true. God created His laws for a reason, and Jesus enforced them because they're necessary. As Christians, we get to "love God and love your neighbor" and just sort of shut down, but we have to remember that we can't just say "Jesus loves me, this I know" and then go do whatever we like.

Above all else, be loving.

It's good that you want to know more about this, but, move cautiously. There's a lot of books out there from Christian publishers that seem good but are just filled with catholic leaven. However, there a lot of reformed people who are recovering the more puritan forms of meditation and your two helpful guides will be Donald Whitney and Joel Beeke. In addition to that, they and other's have written some great articles on the subject. I would search puritan meditation to get you started.

Not OP, but I'd recommend the Small and Large Catechisms. Relatively short and simple to read; they're part of the official Lutheran confessions of faith; they're by Martin Luther; and they're free online at those links. Another good resource from a modern writer is The Spirituality of the Cross by Gene Edward Veith.

May I recommend this book:

Finding God in the Waves: How I Lost My Faith and Found It Again Through Science https://www.amazon.com/dp/1101906049/

It sounds like you're in a similar place to this author. His journey helped me with some of my toughest questions. What's great is while he provides some answers, what's more important is that he embraces discovery and faith.

I am really, really sorry. My wife had a miscarriage in March of 2015. It was an incredibly difficult time; we had been trying for almost 3 years with no success, then that happened. It really threw her theology for a loop; she was angry with God, me, and generally anyone who had a baby.

I highly recommend going to see a good biblical counselor. I am an idiot and didn't have us start going to a counselor until 6 months after the miscarriage, and it would have radically helped her healing process in the moment, I believe.

Also, I can almost guarantee there is another woman in your church that has dealt with this tragedy. I've seen some studies that claim almost half of pregnancies end in miscarriage (granted, many occur even before the mother knows she is pregnant). But the point is that this is extremely common and, like /u/rdavidson24 said, we just don't talk about it, to the detriment of our people.

So, go talk to one of them, often. I think my wife would be able to say now that she can see the incredible ministry opportunity that has come from her miscarriage. Our struggle with pregnancy, the pregnancy itself, the miscarriage, and the recovery were all very public in our church: we were prayed for by the whole congregation for in the worship service a few times and I know that several small groups prayed for us each week during all 4 phases of the journey. And now, my wife is the go-to person in our church for women to talk to because they know she went through it, they saw her pain and (if we're being honest) hatred toward God for a while, and now they see her recovery and complete trust in Him for what has happened.

Those would be my top recommendations. We need community and people to talk to. There is a reason we are part of a body of believers.

As far as books and other secondary resources, you might try:

• A Place of Healing by Joni Eareckson Tada
  
  
• Trusting God: Even When Life Hurts by Jerry Bridges
  
• Definitely this one Inheritance of Tears: Trusting the Lord of Life When Death Visits the Womb by Jessalyn Hutto.
  
  Jessayln also blogged about miscarriage for a while, but I can't find the exact articles, I'm sorry. Here is her blog, though.
  
  Some other articles include:
  
  
• Looking to Christ in the Loss of a Child
  
• THROW OPEN THE DOORS
  
• Life after Miscarriage: God’s Goodness & Mercy in Pain
  
  Again, I am so sorry you are going through this. God loves you. God loves your baby. I know that's hard to hear and sounds like a bunch of crap right now. But do not let Satan tempt you to doubt in the dark what God has revealed in the light. I will be praying for you and your husband.

Some people here might not like his take on 2 kingdoms theology, but Michael Horton's "Ordinary" was really helpful to me about a year and a half ago when I was a sophomore in college. His take (which is, I believe, the correct Reformed take) on what the Christian life looks like and how we should find fulfillment put me at peace with pursuing a career outside of the ministry.

I suggest that you check out Ordinary: Sustainable Faith in a Radical, Restless World by Dr Michael Horton next as a good counterbalance.

>in order to truly be destined for heaven, we should give up all worldly desires

Though a lot of people take what he says in this way--it's how he can come across--Platt would vehemently disagree with this characterization. No one goes to heaven by his own works.

>in constant pursuit of witnessing, making disciples, and spreading gospel throughout the world

This is literally impossible for most people, mainly because someone has to pay for it all. Witnessing is not the only good thing you can do. Fulfilling your vocation is a good work. Hold a job or run a business. This helps your neighbor. This lets you provide for your family. This lets you help meet the needs of other church members. None of these are necessarily witnessing, discipling, or evangelizing, but they are all good works.

I'm very drawn into contemplative life. Happy to talk about it here.

Richard Foster's Celebration of Discipline is a good intro, specially for evangelicals.

I've recently read Thelma Hall's Too Deep for Words: Rediscovering Lectio Divina. Very good read.

Anselm Grun (catholic), Dallas Willard (evangelical), Henry Nouwen (catholic), Eugene Peterson (PCUSA) are some interesting names.

> I was raised to believe that the Bible is inerrant and aside from parables and metaphors, to take it all literally.

There's absolutely life and faith possible outside of the fragile notion of Biblical inerrancy. If you like to read, I'd recommend the book Finding God in the Waves by Mike McHargue. I found it to be a wonderful account of no longer running from your doubts and finding God without needing to deceive yourself.

For a great resource on fasting - you definitely want to get Richard J. Foster's celebration of discipline: http://www.amazon.com/Celebration-Discipline-Path-Spiritual-Growth/dp/1596444541 - a fantastic book. There's a whole chapter on it, and another 11 chapters on other christian spiritual disciplines.

Here it is for sale but I’m willing to bet if you access to a local library, they will have it for free.

The Four Loves https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062565397/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ZOakDbTYY7HW7

I know exactly what you're feeling and have felt it myself. You are right to assume that sitting back and doing nothing will not work. James says right in the Bible that faith without works is dead.

One book that spoke directly to what I was feeling was Thirsting for God in a Land of Shallow Wells.

It brought me to the point where I could no longer hold a protestant view of grace, as in, something that we accept and 'give the wheel to' while we go about our lives. Grace is something offered by God and which we are called to participate in and with. God doesn't offer us a free and easy path to holiness, he offers a road of hardship and struggle against sin with his help. This wasn't a 'works salvation' as I had been told either. Without God reaching out to us, we'd be lost. But without obedience, without struggle, without discipline, no relationship can be cultivated either with Christ or with anyone else.

Read the reviews of the one stars on amazon. Quite entertaining lol. The response to the reviews are even more entertaining.

I read a book called Decision Making and the Will of God: A Biblical Alternative to the Traditional View. I would highly recommend it. Essentially, it says that God provides us with many choices in various situations and it is our job to choose from among them, using wisdom. This is His will. It's not for us to sit around waiting for this mystical whisper that never comes. It is to learn from His written Word and then learn to apply it to real life situations. Then, there are those situations that just don't matter... "should i get a blue car or a green car?"

I recently studied this issue, and the books I read to help me were Jack Deere's Surprised by the Power of the Spirit and Wayne Grudem's The Gift of Prophecy in the New Testament and Today (Pro) and John MacArthur's Strange Fire and BB Warfield's Counterfeit Miracles (Con). Of those, suprisingly MacArthur's was the most helpful. Strange Fire speaks very directly to your impressions of New Age spirituality in the charismatic movement.

Not really on topic as far as this subreddit goes, but read this book!. It's reeeeally good and I think it will speak directly to your background. It's the first thing I thought of when I saw the title of your post. I follow the author and his podcast and he is an incredible resource for those who have been atheists. Or if you don't read the book just listen to him on The Liturgists :)

Maybe you can start with Peter Enns, a Christian professor explaining why Biblical Inerrancy is, well, an errant idea in "The Bible Tells Me So - Why defending scripture has made us unable to read it."

https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Tells-Me-Defending-Scripture-ebook/dp/B00H7LXHJQ

Then, going and reading mainstream biblical scholarship is both enlightening and fascinating - such as Richard Friedman's "Who Wrote the Bible".

https://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353

Perhaps clarity on what Christians mean by "God's presence" and "spirituality". Maybe what your friend thinks he should be looking for isn't what others would describe as knowledge of God's presence; or maybe he has already found it, but lacked the vocabulary and terms in which to describe spiritual encounter.

I'm not sure what text or piece of literature I would recommend. Maybe a book by Thomas Merton, like New Seeds of Contemplation.

There are tons of books with evidence that the events in the Bible actually took place. A book I just bought, but haven’t gotten the chance to crack into yet, is Evidence That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. From what I’ve heard, it provides some super concrete evidence for Biblical events. I can’t wait to crack into it when I get home in a few days.

Shameless self-promotion: I put up silouanthompson.net years ago so my Protestant friends could read some of what I read that got me started on this road. Feel free to click around there.

If you feel like hitting a library, it never hurts to look at The Orthodox Church by Oxford professor and Orthodox bishop Kallistos Ware - it's a good history and background. If you're coming from an Evangelical background, you may like Thirsting For God in a Land of Shallow Wells by Matthew Gallatin.

There's a Yahoogroup for folks interested in inquiring into Orthodoxy: Orthodox-Convert - no guarantees but usually the flake-to-nut ratio isn't too bad :-)

Like any complicated topic, you don't start at that level. That's like going in Physics 101 expecting to learn Einstein's relativity on day one. There's a lot of developmental work to be done before you can get it. C.S. Lewis has a really interesting book called The Four Loves that goes into how four very different greek words for different types of love (friendship love, erotic love, familial love, and self-sacrificial love) that delves a bit into the difficulties of translations but also gets into how language changes how people think.

You can tell a lot about people from the words in their languages. In English, we only have a few types of words for snow/ice, but in many Inuit languages, there are dozens of specific words for differing types of snow/ice, which makes sense, given how big a part of their lives that winter weather entails.

To your point on how can we ever really know what someone means, that's always going to be an issue. We're speaking the same language, and I'm not 100% sure what you mean in your statement. There is always going to be the possibility of miscommunication, but that's no reason to abandon trying to have good communication out of a fear of imperfect communication. We just have to do the best we can when talking to each other, or when trying to figure out if translations are reliable or not.

It's a difficult path to be sure. I wouldn't describe my situation as being so deleterious as yours seems but there are certainly many parallels. If you're a reader I would suggest some works that have helped me in various ways:

• Clive Staples Lewis - The Four Loves
  
• Hannah Arendt - The Human Condition
  
• Gyomay M. Kubose - Zen Koans
  
• Marcus Aurelius - The Meditations
  
  On the other hand there is this quote, attributed to Confucius, that has been sticking in my craw:
  
  "We have two lives, and the second begins when we realize we only have one."

One book I really love is The Bible Tells Me So by Peter Enns. It helped me reconcile the faith I felt with the the issues I had with how the Bible is used.

Essential Truths of the Christian Faith by R.C. Sproul will provide a good Protestant, Reformed understanding of Christianity. It is short and broken up into many little sections, making it very easy to read daily unto completion. Couldn't recommend this more. Anything else by him will be clear, accurate, and readable.

WHAT’S SO GREAT ABOUT CHRISTIANITY
by Dinesh D'Souza

Thanks for the recommendations guys.

Does anybody have experience with this book? I was a 'worship leader' at my baptist church and I feel I could identify strongly with the author.

Took me a second to realize where I've seen this photo before. It was used as the cover of N.T. Wright's book After You Believe. I haven't read it but it's a follow up to his book Simply Christian (eBook only $2.99) which is most excellent for Christians and non-Christians alike trying to get familiar with the basics.

Edit: added links

I thought Enns did a great job in this book putting the issue into the context of ancient writers telling a certain story which would have made sense to them.

based on the comments and downvotes, I think some people are simply reading the first few bullets. Read the whole thing!

Christian here. I'm all for Gay marriage, but I read this fairly terrible book, so I can give you a pretty good idea of what the thought process is.

The idea is sort of a multi-headed monster of independent arguments, none of which are particularly good. I'll summarize some of the ones I remember from Turek's book:

• Gay people don't really want to be married, what they want is their lifestyle to be accepted as a normal and morally acceptable way to live life. Take for example (totally forgot the name and place) place XYZ where upon legalizing gay marriage, only (insert tiny percentage) got married, without any serious increase in (yada yada yada, statistical data implying people weren't getting married despite the recent change in law).
  
  
• If we allow gay people to get married, we are setting the precedent that it is ok to be gay- for if it weren't, why would it be legal?
  
  
• blah blah blah bad data suggesting gay/lesbian parents are worse than the traditional mother/father situation. Children should have both a male and female influence in their lives (which, seriously speaking- is something I would agree with - [a male and female influence on a child is a good thing]- but if you're going to apply this argument to gay couples, you have to be consistent and apply it to divorced parents, and other arrangements without a mom/dad present), and without some kind of balance in parenting, your kid will blah blah blah bad outcome.
  
  There are probably more that I don't remember, but who cares - they aren't good arguments anyway. Let's quickly debunk them.
  
  
• What is this, a gay conspiracy? this is nonsense, there are gay people that clearly love each other and want to be recognized as a committed and married couple.
  
  
• Ok, so then why aren't Christians pushing for laws against premarital sex, excessive drinking, and divorce? It's an entirely inconsistent line of thinking.
  
  
• This one might be the most compelling to me personally, as I think it's good for a child's development to have a solid male and female influence - but again, it's inconstantly biased towards the gay couples. If Christians really felt so strongly towards this law, they'd apply the same argument to other just as applicable situations not involving gay couples.
  
  So far, this has probably been a fairly reasonable post for a non-Christian to read and agree with. Now, here's why I get into my personal belief: I believe that homosexuality is a sin issue, just like the dozens of sin issues that I have in all kinds of other areas (porn, drinking, premarital heterosexual sex, etc). Just because I don't happen to struggle with homosexuality doesn't mean that I can condemn people that do (you'll notice this a lot with Christians, you'll have a racist bigot struggling to understand that we're supposed to love people singling out someone that struggles with, I don't know, lying - because he personally doesn't struggle with lying, and can't relate to the person). However, according to my beliefs, it's a sin issue.
  
  Now, the fun part that will get most of you back on board: just because I believe it is wrong doesn't mean I can/should allow myself to influence the legal ability of non-Christians to engage in acts I deem inappropriate. If you are not a Christian, if you do not believe as I do, then why listen to what I have to say? We're supposed to treat people as Jesus did, and I'm not sure trying to prevent non-Christian gay people from getting married (yes, notice I made a distinction- perhaps it might be acceptable for Christians to try to prevent Christians struggling with homosexuality to engage in homosexual acts, just as it would be acceptable for Christians to try to prevent Christians that struggle with stealing compulsively from walking into Macy's and stealing jewelry. But again, if you're not a Christian, this doesn't make sense).
  
  Well, that's the idea.
  
  tl;dr - many of the arguments Christians pose against gay marriage are inconsistent and non-biblical.

Yup, it's in there. You can buy one here. Unfortunately, they didn't have a hardcover, but this paperback edition is pretty nice and feels authentic. I've only read The Screwtape Letters. I think I might start with Mere Christianity, idk.

It contains:

1. Mere Christianity
   
2. The Screwtape Letters
   
3. Miracles
   
4. A Grief Observed
   
5. The Great Divorce
   
6. The Problem of Pain
   
7. The Abolition of Man
   
8. The Four Loves
   
   I'm so excited, and it only cost $48.84

There are many cases of God speaking to people in the Bible, but there are no cases of people having to figure out whether it's God speaking to them or not. When God speaks, he makes it clear. That's why I say if you're in doubt, it's probably not God speaking to you. If it were God speaking to you, you'd know it was him because God doesn't try and fail to communicate with people.

You should check out Decision Making and the Will of God by Garry Friessen. https://www.amazon.com/Decision-Making-Will-God-Alternative/dp/1590522052

Check out "Finding God in the Waves: How I Lost My Faith and Found It Again Through Science," by Mike McHargue. It might be just what you are looking for :)

This book, by him, is appropriate on the occasion:

http://www.amazon.com/Trusting-God-Even-When-Hurts/dp/1600063055

One of the best books I've ever read.

The book is very good, IMHO.

I’d recommend an incredible book that addresses this exact question from a Biblical point of view.

After You Believe: Why Christian Character Matters by NT Wright

"The Holiness Of God" by R.C. Sproul influenced my thinking somewhat.
"God's Smuggler" by 'Brother Andrew' inspired some activity.

There are countless people to listen to

​

youtube these names:

Allen Parr https://www.youtube.com/user/thebeatagp/videos

John MacArthur https://www.youtube.com/user/JohnMacArthurGTY/videos

John Piper https://www.youtube.com/user/desiringGod/videos

Ravi Zacharia

Wretched (hosted by Todd Friel) https://www.youtube.com/user/WretchedNetwork/videos

Dr.Michael Youssef https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNp0fugFYw_s19nG-pJ6P0Q

Pastor Greg Laurie https://www.youtube.com/user/HarvestTV/videos

​

Ryan Reeves (For historical theology)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrI5U0R293u9uveijefKyAA/videos

​

Apologetics (for the tough questions, look up these names)

William Lane Craig

(look up his debates and check out this channel https://www.youtube.com/user/ReasonableFaithOrg/videos )

Sean Mcdowell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyyuVmNDPmo

(Sean McDowell has some solid advice regarding homosexuality)

Alvin Plantinga

Peter van Inwagen

John Lennox

https://www.youtube.com/user/CloserToTruth1/videos

Josh McDowell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq-ZFG3lTiA

https://www.amazon.com/Evidence-That-Demands-Verdict-Life-Changing/dp/1401676707

Thomas Aquinas

C S Lewis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgwq09sIpLQ

Cornelius Van Til

John Gerstner

John M. Frame https://www.amazon.com/Apologetics-Glory-God-John-Frame/dp/0875522432

This is absolute bollocks. I strongly recommend CS Lewis' The Four Loves on this issue, where he powerfully argues against this idea.

I'm afraid I can't supply a source, since this is Frank Turek's work, but you can find the book on Amazon if you really want to know?

Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Life-Changing Truth for a Skeptical World

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1401676707/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_BpmvCbAVGFXZY

Cold-Case Christianity: A Homicide Detective Investigates the Claims of the Gospels

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1434704696/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_0qmvCbH2E153C

The more I go to church, the more I doubt. I just read Mike McHargue's "Finding Faith in the Waves" and it's done more for me than any amount of church attendance has in the past 10 years.

Based on a recommendation from this sub: Ordinary by Michael Horton.

How do you rectify Acts 2:4, 10:44-46, and 19:6 with 1 Cor 12:30 then?

In Acts "they were all filled, and spoke with other tongues"

In 1 Cor "Do all speak in tongues? [no]"

---

and if we are devolving to link debate, here's mine: https://www.amazon.com/Surprised-Power-Spirit-Jack-Deere/dp/0310211271

> You never seem to see people who start believing in God while still dealing with the criticisms atheists often have of religion

Though i don't agree with many things in the book, I guess you could consider this guy

What's So Great About Christianity by Dinesh D'Souza

Life After Death: The Evidence by Dinesh D'Souza

The New Evidence That Demand a Verdict by Josh McDowell

There are many of us that reject traditional views of what the Bible is and how it should be read. I've just finished reading a couple of books by Peter Enns (view here and here) that address the concerns you brought up as well as many others. It was a very therapeutic read for me.

> Nope. Theories are tested against evidence.

Once the theories have been made, sure. But the hypotheses that are made to describe new phenomena, or to better describe what was once believed to be fully understood when new evidence is presented, still comes from reason and thinking critically on the subject until such experiments can be designed to test said theories. For example, the direct detection of gravitational waves was not accomplished until the LIGO experiment in 2016, even though we were holding to the existence of such long before then on account of Einstein's work. To say that this was the first time that Einstein's proposition of the existence of gravitational waves was challenged, simply because it was the first time that it was experimentally shown, is ludicrous.

I've not yet had the chance to read The Big Picture, but I would like to point out even from the brief quote that you provided a fascinating aspect of the nature of the world and indeed the universe that we are coming to appreciate more and more: how little we truly know. Imagine the entirety of human knowledge as a sphere, where the extent of human knowledge is contained by the sphere, that which humans have not yet learned being outside the sphere, and the surface of the sphere representing that which we know that we don't know. As the sphere expands, i.e. we learn more about ourselves, the world, and the universe around us, so too does that border of what we know that we don't know, and the more we realize we don't yet truly understand. For example, let's look at flight. The earliest scientific consensus on the matter was that an airfoil must be shaped just so in order to maximize the Bernoulli effect and generate lift via differentiated airflow. In many cases the classic airfoil pattern is still used, but you will be hard-pressed to find any modern fighter aircraft that still hold to that design over a delta-wing or extended delta-wing configuration. Instead, most if not all high-speed aircraft these days generate lift more from angle of attack than just from the Bernoulli effect. My point is that while there is much that we have learned about how nature does work on its deepest levels, there is still much more that we do not yet know, e.g. an adequate phenomenon (or phenomena, if such turns out to be the case) to describe how quantum acausality seems to uniformly cause at the macro scale effects which can be described causally. To borrow your baseball metaphor, since we know that the universe itself doesn't play baseball at its fundamental core, then why does all of the non-baseball-playing end up looking like baseball when we look at the big picture?

> I didn't say it was unknowable. I said I didn't know.

I would urge you then to branch out beyond just the humanistic works that you are familiar with. A valid criticism of all humans is that they prefer to listen to the voices that tell them what they want to hear, and that is no less true of theists than it is of atheists and agnostics. If your desire is for truth and not just for science, then I would recommend reading the works of people who hold to their beliefs because of the evidence, rather than just in spite of it. Josh McDowell's Evidence that Demands a Verdict is one place to start.

Of course intuitive physics is insufficient. We see that in the existence of gravitational waves which I mentioned above. The point is that "scientific consensus" is continually changing as we learn more about existence around us, and discover new phenomena, e.g. the double-slit experiment, that shows us how much more complicated the universe really is than we imagined.

I've read Russell's "Why I'm not a Christian" and found it thoroughly unconvincing and fraught with error. Specifically from the passage you cited, let's look at his assertion that

> There is no reason to suppose that the world had a beginning at all. The idea that things must have a beginning is really due to the poverty of our imagination.

The problem here is that the very same science he urges us to pursue in his closing paragraph agrees that the universe, and indeed the Earth as a part of it, did have a beginning. Granted, we can forgive Russell his oversight since the experiments that proved the existence of the cosmic microwave background radiation wasn't proven until the '60s, but that experimental evidence still puts to death Russell's theory that the universe had no beginning. After all, if we are to test theories against evidence, then the evidence is not in favor of Mr. Russell.

As for the rest of that piece, Russell routinely waffles between making an assertion about Christ and then relying on a worldview that is inconsistent with the worldview that Christ preached to disprove Christ's statements. His methodology is akin to setting up arguments for why the tooth fairy doesn't exist, and then showing these arguments to be fallacious because he knows that the tooth fairy does exist on account widely attested reports from children around the world that their teeth disappeared from beneath their pillows. He is correct that not all those who call themselves Christians do in fact follow Christ, but he is thoroughly mistaken to judge the words of Christ as though He were a man, when He makes it abundantly clear that He is God.

> And yet we haven't found it yet. That is, in all the laws of physics that we have found so far there doesn't seem to be any distinction of the past and the future.

Right, and once again we have a theory that has not yet been born out with evidence or experimentation. For one so dismissive of theories that are argued before there is evidence to support them, I'm surprised you put stock in the works of theoretical physicists, whose very domain is by definition that which has not yet been proven. But there's that word again, yet. Feynman recognizes the inconsistency between what we know to be implied by the laws of physics as we currently understand them and what we know experimentally based on our ability to bear out the results of these theories in the real world. I would argue that he was keenly aware of that boundary layer between what we know and our increasing knowledge of what we know that we don't know.

Nice idea, but Christ was a real person, documented in both religious and secular documents.

What follows is not meant to be disrespectful, but I think you are missing the entire point of what the Christian Faith is.

You cannot overlook the evidence.

Chris was actually killed and rose from the dead seen by over 500 witnesses

If you look at the evidence and decide that it is worth looking at what Jesus actually stood for.

There are actually over 300 "Q Type" prophecies in the old testament, that are all fufilled in a single man, Jesus Christ. These are prophecies that took place over 400 years before he came.

If nothing else, take a look at the evidence in light of "Q type" prophecy.

Two good books are


The case for Christ

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310345863?aaxitk=9l74.ycRWveaIQm-t.ZSYw&pd_rd_i=0310345863&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3534726502&pd_rd_wg=81HhE&pf_rd_r=7FYJ4V7SAWEVC6JM4FA7&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-top-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_w=eRa1R&pf_rd_i=the+case+for+christ&pd_rd_r=ff665252-4ebd-4d59-b4cf-4d52f112cbe2&hsa_cr_id=7480256250101

Evidence that demands a verdict.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1401676707?aaxitk=BXAaSaaijsgYqtj3gEbPXw&pd_rd_i=1401676707&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3534726502&pd_rd_wg=jYd2I&pf_rd_r=93P85JRNR7JSJ5EMWG2M&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-top-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_w=7nLcY&pf_rd_i=Evidence+that+demands+a+verdict&pd_rd_r=e38ece30-f389-4c68-8dcb-ff7abce12a76&hsa_cr_id=5187726210201



As far as your math equation of "we do this and we get that. The bible teaches that salvation is a GIFT' and you cannot do anything to earn it. You could argue that you have to believe, and that is correct, but that is all you can do. In fact the teachings of the bible tell warn against trying to get back
into that mindset.


For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


I am not one to argue that you need to believe the way I believe, but I do see that you are teaching (maybe a strong word) something very different than that the documents that uphold the entire christian faith represent.

Christ also taught us that this world is not our world.

He also taught us that our struggles are not flesh and blood but really against good and evil. (That is what we are seeing)

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

The real gospel is very simple and it is a secret.

We are all sinners (everyone)

The penalty for sin is death.

Christ died once for all

He rose again defeating death

He sent his Holy Spirit here to help us

He does not force himself on anyone.

It is impossible to believe in Him without faith. You can argue facts until you are blue in the face, but you will never be able to prove it. Plenty of circumstantial evidence though.