Reddit mentions of Sexual Orientation and Gender Expression in Social Work Practice: Working with Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender People

I'm not going to enter into this argument at this stage on either side because I personally think you both make seriously excellent points! I'm just gonna hop in to be a mediator.

A couple points:

1. Well done to both you and u/LerrisHarrington for keeping it largely civil but let's keep the "people like you" down on both sides. Also, let's not ad hominem attack people here.
   
   
2. Let's, remember that both of you agree that trans people should be treated with respect and that assault or harassment verbal, physical and emotional should be avoided. Your disagreement is about specifics so act like it. Let's not pretend that either of you hates the other or hates cis/trans people.
   
   Ok now I'm going to be extremely nitpicky but I believe some clarity is needed. First, you say:
   
   > Gender identity is the strongest determining factor in whether you're a man or women. Not whats between your legs, thats your biological sex.
   
   Then you say:
   
   > all embryonic humans are female
   
   This needs a bit more clarification for me as it is a tad confusing.
   
   First lets cover this part:
   
   > all embryonic humans are female
   
   Biologically or psychologically?
   
   If you're going with a biological definition then this is simply not true. From the moment an egg and sperm come together, the embryo is biologically male or female. An embryo either has XX or XY chromosomes. It does not decide half way through development. Male embryos are never "female." They don't have a 'vagina' they have undifferentiated sexual organs which are physically androgynous. Source
   
   If you're going with a psychological definition then we'd be talking about gender identity which as you say is:
   
   > strongest determining factor in whether you're a man or women.
   
   Well, the baby doesn't really have a functional brain at this stage so it certainly can't tell you what it feels. Therefore, it cannot have a gender identity which "refers to an individual's personal sense of identity as masculine or feminine, or some combination thereof." Source. Go to page 8 of the book preview if you don't own the book.
   
   Therefore, by the process of elimination, you can only be talking about biological sex but this is only of secondary importance right?
   
   All in all, in my opinion, the whole:
   
   > all embryonic humans are female
   
   Is, therefore, meaningless from a biological and psychological point of view.
   
   
   You also say:
   
   > if you were to suffer an accident at work and lost your penis and testicles, would you continue to be a man? And if so is that because of whats between your legs? Or what you've determined yourself to be?
   
   False dichotomy much? I appreciate that you're using an analogy, I'll be the first to admit they're awesome but I think there are definitely more physical ways to define sex even for a person who doesn't believe in the idea of genders and gender identity. For example "men have Y chromosomes"
   
   > Since all men had vaginas,
   
   A transman may have had a vagina but as we've established not all men have had one.
   
   You then say:
   
   > Once you realize that transwomen are women as much as ciswomen are women,
   
   If we're using gender identity as the guide for defining a man/women sure. Personally, I agree with your statement but I don't think you've proven your point beyond reasonable doubt.
   
   Edit:
   
   You also say:
   
   > Sorry for the lateness,
   
   That is so cute and Canadian and I love it! :)