Reddit mentions of Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction

I used Rational Recovery (RR). It's not meeting focused (in fact, it discourages group AA style meetings) but there are groups and I did go to one several times.

RR uses a form of Albert Ellis' rational-emotive behavioral therapy (REBT). It does emphasize the "never drink again" philosophy, but after a few years without touching a drink, I now drink normally or less than normally. Whenever I want, which is hardly ever.

RR might be kind of outdated now, though, I'm not sure. If I were looking today I'd check out that SMART Recovery the other person linked, and definitely a therapist's or physician's (or both) help.

Oh, I used RR with something else. It's going to seem really...unscientific. I also used 7 Weeks to Sobriety, which is a plan to help support your body nutritionally while it recovers from the alcohol. It relies heavily on supplements. While the science might not be rigorous, I found that the supplementation helped greatly, and that I felt a lot better than I had on previous attempts. Lesser withdrawals, better physical state overall.

I apologize, because that's probably not a great skeptical book. I used it because it cited a lot of research (I think; it was a while ago) but I would think if it were that proven it would have taken off as a primary axis of addiction treatment, you know?

If you plan not to touch sugar due to addiction, you might like this book: https://www.amazon.com/Rational-Recovery-Cure-Substance-Addiction/dp/0671528580/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1549636238&sr=1-1&keywords=rational+recovery

It's targeted towards alcoholics, but I have found it amazing to instantaneously flip my mind around food. Saying 'no' becomes easy when you have these strategies in mind. (Sounds weird, but it's very true.)

​

Live long and prosper! You do you!!

My grand epiphany occurred reading Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction.

Until that book, I never really knew why I seemingly couldn't control or stop my alcohol consumption.

The basics are alcohol is not what you crave. It is the vehicle used to deliver the high you seek. It could very well be any substance, any drug that is used, but what is important is the high.

Take you and me, we've trained our brain to need this junk. Our brains were never suited to be in such a hyper-pleasurable state. For us, there's something that I guess gets turned on to where we start seeking the high out more and more and more and we then find ourselves addicted to whatever it may be.

That part of our brains wants that pleasure, needs it, and will stop at nothing to feel it. It doesn't care if it kills the body it's in. As long as the hyper-pleasurable state can be gotten everything is roses.

The book calls this THE BEAST.

So, it is you - the person that knows alcohol is poison and wants to stop - vs. THE BEAST.

The separation is important. You are not that desire. It is separate from you and you can control it. You are in control. This is something we forgot when we let alcohol take over our lives.

So, ok, say you tell yourself you are quitting. Fine, that part of your brain says. It can wait. It knows no concept of time. All it knows is that someday you will drink again and it will lay in wait for however long it takes.

During this time away though, it comes after you with thoughts and feelings and cravings. It whispers to you just how worthless and weak you are and you should just stop this foolish sobriety thing and go back to being the loser you know you are.

Yep, it doesn't fight fair.

See:

>and EVERY CELL in my body says "go to the bar (or liquor store) and CELEBRATE, you DESERVE (reward) it!!! Let's have some FUN!!

This is THE BEAST in all its glory.

You want to make it scared? Feel it's fear? Tell yourself that you will never drink again, ever. Pay attention to the feelings that brings to you. You feel that fight or flight response kicking in? Breathing kicks up, maybe you feel a knot in your throat. Something in you is screaming NOOOOOO! DON'T DO THAT!

You have brought THE BEAST out and shined a light on it. It really hates being known. It would rather hide behind your eyes whispering just the right things to get you to succumb again and drink. Pull it out in the sunlight it cowers.

So what can you do? This is the hard part. You have to tell it no. You have to stand up to it and tell it that you will not succumb no matter how hard it comes after you. This starts one day at a time. Or even one hour at a time. It means getting into some kind of treatment that works for you and working it openly and honestly. You have to do this for you. Doing it for anything else just won't work. This is all about you getting clean and sober, others need not apply.

Next on the agenda is to restructure your thinking about alcohol in general. Alcohol was my buddy and was always there for me when I needed to celebrate, relax, when I was angry, sad, whatever it was I could always work alcohol in. It always had a place at my table.

You have to change that 180 degrees. You need to start thinking about alcohol for what it is, poison. You can dress it up as fancy as you like, but when all is said and done it's a substance you shouldn't allow in your body at all. There are no positive effects, there are no benefits to this junk.

You have to hate it and I mean detest it so much that the thought of it or you drinking it turns your stomach. It's not your friend and never was. It is a life waster. It is a life taker. What have you gotten from your drinking? What good has come from it? When I answer that, I only have one word.

Nothing.

So none of this is easy, but you can do it. I did it and am doing it and I am nothing special. I am just like you and the rest of the people of the world, just trying to make it through and do the best I can with what I have. It's rough and tough. There's no doubt about that. The only thing alcohol does is make what's already rough and tough rougher and tougher. It doesn't solve anything. It's a lie.

There's got to be something else you do that brings you joy and happiness. Instead of ruining your holiday with alcohol, try doing that whatever it is. Or maybe you can think of something that you don't have time for now because of drinking that you enjoyed before. Whatever hobby that is pick it up and do it again. For me, I rediscovered my love of chess and playing the guitar. Maybe you can fix a favorite food or dessert. Anything is better than picking up another container of alcohol.

Promise yourself, just for the remainder of this day you will not drink. Tomorrow when you wake up promise yourself that today, that 24-hours, you will not drink.

Give yourself the best gift you can this holiday. Choose to be sober.

Merry Happy Christmas Holidays!

Keep on keeping on! I am coming up on six months sober.

The thing that helped me the most was this book. It really helped me get my mind around the problem and finally work towards being free from alcohol.

I am grateful, too, for the struggle.

In addition to the Big Book, I read Carr along with Jack Trimpey's Rational Recovery. Both present cognitive approaches to addressing addictions.

There are a few chapters in Trimpey's book that struck me as the most accurate I had ever read about "my" addiction, not the least of which was to say the following (paraphrasing):

We all drink for the same reason: It feels good. At first it "feels good," and we drink again -- and more -- to replicate the experience. It gets harder to replicate as our tolerance increases, so we drink even more to feel good. Eventually we drink excessively and regularly to dispel the "bad" effects of not drinking, which still means drinking to feel good. Eventually we become sad, fat, and depressed because of alcohol, so we blame the depression for the drinking as opposed to the other way around.

Trimpey wrote this book in the mid-nineties and has since forged off on other paths -- including vitriol-laced attacks on AA that largely deflate his more intelligent arguments. But his work supplied the base for SMART Recovery and other cognitive programs.

Whatever you do, don't start again. For your own good hear me out.

I started off with painkillers and got up to using about 1 gram of heroin per day. In other words, I was very addicted, it felt like drugs took my soul and I was never going to get it back.

I've been clean for ~4 years now, life isn't roses, but guess what, it never will be. I can promise you one thing though, life is at least 900 times better without drugs. Slavery or freedom, it's an easy choice. Ugh, just thinking about it makes me shudder (figuratively).

Never give opiates another THOUGHT, those thoughts are not that of your own. I was taught to think of them more like a transmission from your enemy, and that did the trick. Quickly enough life moved on, and the worst experience of my life thus far became merely a chapter in my past to learn from.

P.S. (OPINION): NA is useless, it is as much a disease as the drugs themselves. It is cult like, and not mentally healthy behavior. If you learn some things about psychology, you'll quickly learn the mindset that NA provides is not that of a healthy successful individual. You can do it on your own, the mind is all you need.

Reading can be more powerful than anything else if you allow it. Reading one method from one book was what changed the course of my life. That is to identify addictive thoughts as not your own, but rather a transmission from the enemy, you must identify that transmission and it's sender (your enemy) and block it out/demand that it stop. I tried to find the book for you and I couldn't, unfortunately. Point is, knowledge and effort alone are enough. For now though, do whatever works.

EDIT: I remember the book.

Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671528580/

This book taught me things that were a huge help in getting clean for good.

NA isn't for everyone. If you don't like it, I suggest reading Rational Recovery. I was able to kick booze (admittedly, not as hard as heroin, but I was getting wasted every night for years) after reading that book.

Why do you feel so alone, when you have good friends? Maybe you should nurture those friendships? Do something good for someone. I always feel better when I'm helping people...

I'm sorry. That sounds horrible. I'm glad you're posting here because it sounds like you do actually want to recover. I recently read an interesting book called Brain Over Binge and a lot of what she writes sounds similar to what you're sharing with us. She isn't diabetic but it's the same concept of accidentally starting terrible habits and the desire to be skinny and feeling shame over your choices. She also mentions the book Rational Recovery which is about alcoholism but covers a lot of the same concepts.


Being honest with yourself about why you're in therapy is important. It's time to turn that honesty on its head and ask yourself if you want to really get better. And if you do...you can get there with help. Bulimia is a very serious problem, and you know this...you know that you can actually die from it. Please be kind to yourself and your future life. Good luck!

Addictive Voice Recognition Technique works for me.

Yes, you absolutely can quit using drugs without the Twelve Steps. The only people who need the Twelve Steps are those who have convinced themselves they need the Twelve Steps. The only people for whom the Twelve Steps appear to ‘work’ are those who are totally convinced that the Twelve Steps will work.

Faith in the Twelve Steps is what helps a tiny minority of Twelve Steppers stay sober. If you have strong faith in the Twelve Step Religion, you might be helped by that faith.

The actual Steps have nothing to do with staying sober. It’s not as if Step 3 is “stop drinking.” You can do all of the Steps & stay drunk the whole time.

Hey so it seems you are kind of new to recovery. I have been to rehab 5 times over the years. Over time it moved more towards cognitive recovery. In fact the last rehab was totally cognitive.

You should look at rational recovery. it might be a good fit for you. [Rational Recovery: The new cure for substance addiction] (https://www.amazon.com/Rational-Recovery-Cure-Substance-Addiction/dp/0671528580/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522339718&sr=8-1&keywords=rational+recovery&dpID=51y4eFxq6QL&preST=_SY344_BO1,204,203,200_QL70_&dpSrc=srch)

You will be really surprised at some of the angles it looks at. Especially the addictive treatment industry. And author is straight up anti AA.

I like AA because otherwise I am alone in this.
YOu have family and you have people that you are accountable to. Being accountable is a must in recovery.
This is another very good book and it is written for people early in recovery. It has some humor in it.
(Don't Let the Bastards Grind You Down: 50 Things Every Alcoholic and Addict in Early Recovery Should Know) [https://www.amazon.com/Don%C2%92t-Let-Bastards-Grind-Down/dp/0981708803/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522341799&sr=8-1&keywords=don%27t+let+the+bastards+grind+you+down&dpID=51DnBBtqC7L&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch]

Whatever you do, just do something. If you are really an alcoholic, it WILL progress and you will lose everything.
Ain't no mother fucker here gonna challenge me on that.

much love

First, understand that the “problem” you described here only exists because you have created it in your own mind. And, frankly, it’s nonsense.

Take responsibility for your actions. You’re not “possessed” by anything. You drive home from work, and you have made a habit of choosing to buy beer/cigarettes. You go home & choose to get drunk, because it’s enjoyable.

Then you feel guilty, because you have an addiction. “Addiction” is when part of you wants to intoxicate yourself, and another part of you realizes that it’s a bad choice to intoxicate yourself.

There is absolutely nothing forcing you to buy alcohol. You’re making a choice. There is absolutely nothing forcing you to drink alcohol. You’re choosing to do it. You are voluntarily choosing to obey the part of your brain that says, “Let’s get drunk.”

That part of your brain has no power over your body. Seriously. It can’t make you do anything, let alone drive to the liquor store, buy liquor, put the liquor in your car, go home, open the bottle, get a glass, drink the liquor. Sorry.

And in case you want to say, “You’re not an addict, you don’t understand!!!” Here’s my resume: I drank so heavily for so long that I had to be hospitalized when I quit. Been addicted to crack, meth. Benzodiazepines. Spent over a year of my life in residential rehab programs. Been to 12,000,000 Meetings.

Reading this book was a game-changer for me. I suggest you read it. But that’s just my suggestion.

Thanks, I'm glad it was helpful for you. I still have a lot of "baggage" to work through, a lot of issues to resolve and heal but this was a good start. Congratulations on your one year of sobriety! That reminds me of another book I've heard about. I'm in the middle of reading a book called Brain Over Binge written by a woman who overcame her binge eating disorder. I'm using it as a starting point in dealing with my own food and eating issues. In it she talks about reading the book called Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpey, which is what helped her finally kick her binge eating problem after years of therapy doing nothing. It's actually a book about addiction recovery and just by chance she happened to try looking at books about addiction recovery in the bookstore instead of eating disorder books. This is the one she picked up. It talked about drugs and alcohol addiction but she just simply replaced that with the word "food" in her mind as she read it and it clicked for her. It talks about making a clear distinct separation in your mind and recognizing that the urge to engage in using the substance is coming from the primitive survival brain (same with things like anxiety which does have its place), but that it's the conscious human brain that is choosing to actually follow through and give in to the urge again. The primitive brain does not have the power to make you actually act. It's a bit more complex than that and she explained it better but she was able to take that knowledge and apply it to her eating disorder. I'm trying to use that and apply it to my anxiety.

Also, if you aren't familiar with this yet, you may want to try /r/raisedbynarcissists. I don't really have any experience dealing with that but it sounds like you're on the right track. You may also want to explore Childhood Emotional Neglect and what happens when we don't get that love and emotional support that we need as children as we are learning to navigate the world. It's about exploring emotional literacy and emotional intelligence, recognizing our feelings and knowing what to do with them in a healthy positive way (i.e. handling them properly instead of using drugs, sex, food, alcohol, things like that to cope). I'm slowly exploring that myself (for me it's food and learning how to communicate better). We need to work at connecting the dots with how we behave as adults to our past, recognizing that, understanding how that affects our behaviour, and resolving those feelings. Good luck!