(Part 2) Reddit mentions: The best christian apologetics books

Coming as a reformed guy, the presuppositional approach is the school of thought most of us come from. The books in this tradition worth reading would be:

Defense of the Faith by Cornelius Van Til

He was the founder of the movement and this is an intro to his ideas. He was a philosopher and English wasn't his first language, so it might be a but dense in a few places. But it's worth the read.

Always Ready by Greg Bahnsen

Bahnsen was one of Van Til's best students and probably one of the best debaters of that method til his tragic death at 45. This is a really good intro to the theory and practice as he applies the method to popular questions including the problem of faith, miracles, and knowing the supernatural.

Apologetics to the Glory of God and Doctrine of the Knowledge of God by John Frame

Van Til's other best student who is also considered his best living expositor and friendliest critic. Apologetics to the Glory of God (AGG) is his attempt at making the method user friendly. He deals with evil, the existence of God and the reliability of the gospel and he even has a funny sample dialogue at the end showing how the method could be applied in real life. His other book, is the first in his Theology of Lordship Series covering in depth various topics. His Doctrine of the Knowledge of God is a theology of epistemology. That is, he looks at the Bible and asks, "What does it mean to "know" God?" TONS of Scripture. A brilliant book with great application at the end, especially in terms of apologetics.

The Francis A Schaeffer Trilogy by Francis Schaeffer

One of Van Til's most famous students (The only one to ever be on the cover of Time Magazine), he was a very influential voice in evangelicalism in the 60's and 70's. Van Til never felt Francis truly "got" his method, but the influence of Van Til on his work is pretty evident. Francis wrote these three books in order to be read together and they were developed as a result of his work in Europe working with college kids at his home called L'Abri They cover cultural trends in Europe and the US and why they were happening. He saw that the idea of truth was in decay and only God could truly be the anchor to hold society together. Broad brush strokes indeed, but philosopher Richard Taylor would make a very similar (but more detailed) case in his book A Secular Age. They aren't apologetics books (I would almost say prophetic as he saw many of our current cultural trends years before they happened), but they do have his approach to apologetics and it is one that has influenced many current evangelicals. To be honest, any of his many books would be worth your time. His book and documentary How Then Shall We Live, while a bit dated, are both worth your time. They both look at the history of art and what it tells us about mankind. Here's a clip from the documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdLejdyNpik

Every Thought Captive by Richard Pratt

One of Frame's students who took the method and wrote this book for High School/College age students. Great intro to the method. Lot's of scripture.

Reasons for Faith: Philosophy in the Service of Theology and Covenantal Apologetics by Scott Oliphint

He is currently teaching in Van Til's old position and has written a lot on the subject. The first book is just what it sounds like, it's a look at the role of reason in apologetics. The second book comes out next month and it is his explanation of the presuppositional method of apologetics. It's a highly anticipated book.

The Divine Challenge: On Matter Mind Math and Meaning by John Byl

A physicist, he uses the presup. approach while looking at the materialistic worldview. He deconstructs the view and shows that things like mind matter math and meaning can only make sense in a Christian worldview.

Religion, Reason, and Revelation by Gordon Clark

Clark was a one time friend of Van Til and later would become his rival-their students to this day keep the rivalry going! This is his own kind of presuppositionalism and well worth your time. His other works like The Christian View of Men and Things are a great intro to his approach.

Faith and Reason by Ronald Nash

A student of Clark's, he wrote this intro to philosophy of Religion with some great thoughts on worldviews.

A World of Difference by Kenneth Samples

A student of Nash's who looks at different tests of world views and show show Christianity can deal with all of them.

Articles

Van Til Info is run by Christian philosopher James Anderson and it has tons of articles from the presupp approach
http://www.vantil.info/bysubject.html

Monergism
Links to various writers and on the pressuppisitional method.
http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Apologetics/

Okay, this is still a very broad question, but one of the best experts to go to on this subject (in my opinion) is professor Daniel Wallace of Dallas Theological Seminary. Dr. Wallace is currently heading up the Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts where he and his team are compiling all known ancient manuscripts and digitally photographing and labeling them so that other scholars can study and read them online. In the process of doing this, he and his team are discovering a number of previously unknown manuscripts (for instance, a possible 1st century fragment of Mark that will be published in scholarly journals this year).

In this talk on the subject, Dr. Wallace mentions Metzger's thorough and extensive academic-leaning work Canon of the New Testament, and the cheaper, more popular level book Reinventing Jesus co-authored by Wallace, J. Ed Komoszewski, and M. James Sawyer. You might also be in interested in Dr. Wallace's New Testament: Introductions and Outlines where he goes into both critical and tradtional examinations of the NT and their inclusion into the canon.

For just a basic outline on canonicity of the NT, most of the books of the NT had to be early (so published in or around the 1st century), had to be authored by an Apostle or someone close to the Apostles. Early on there wasn't much concern for canonicity in the early church. Most of the early church used the Septuagint as their Bible, and just didn't think of the later writings in quite the same way as we do, but they recognized their inspirational nature and valued them. Then a heretic named Marcion came along and formed his own canon. He felt that the God of the Old Testament was evil, and so decided to remove anything pro-Jewish, he reworked Luke, and did a number of other things. The early church was pretty freaked out about this, and decided that they needed to compile an authoritative list of books/letters to ward off heretical manipulation of what had already been received as inspired and authoritative.

One of the early examples we have of the early canon can be found in the Muratorian fragment dating to approx. 170 AD. It includes most of the books of the NT excluding James, Hebrews, and 1 and 2 Peter. A number of the ECFs (early church fathers... important post-Apostolic Christian writers) mention the authoritative books of the NT by name. The Gospels are mostly anonymous (there are a few internal indicators in Luke and John about who authored them), but the ECFs handed down to us the authorship of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. No other authors in the ancient writings were substituted for the name of the traditional authors. By the time Constantine came into power, and made Christianity the state religion, the canon had been closed and pretty much all the major books accepted for a long time with a little bit of disagreement between books like Revelation and Hebrews and a couple of the Pastorals. A number of councils in the 4th century pretty much settled the matter. The earliest complete manuscript copies we have date from around this period as well, so Codex Vaticanus 325-350, Codex Sinaiticus in 330-360, Codex Alexandrinus 400-440, Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus 450.

Something else should be mentioned about the Gospels. Matthew, Mark, and Luke share many commonalities with one another. So much so, that most scholars believe these books depend on one another in some way. These Gospels are called "synoptic", that is syn-together, or same and opsis-view (like where we get the word "optic" for optic nerve). John is so unlike the synoptics that he's usually handled separately from them, and is also considered later than the others.
Now these similarities aren't so surprising with Luke, Luke tells us that his book is a compilation of testimony (Luke 1:1-4), but that doesn't really explain, for instance, how Matthew is so similar to Mark.

An early church father named Eusebius quotes from an earlier Bishop named Papias about the compilation of the Gospels. Papias lived in the 1st and early 2nd century, and was a student or a hearer of the Apostle John. Papias says,

>Mark having become the interpreter of Peter, wrote down accurately whatsoever he remembered. It was not, however, in exact order that he related the sayings or deeds of Christ. For he neither heard the Lord nor accompanied Him. But afterwards, as I said, he accompanied Peter, who accommodated his instructions to the necessities [of his hearers], but with no intention of giving a regular narrative of the Lord's sayings. Wherefore Mark made no mistake in thus writing some things as he remembered them. For of one thing he took special care, not to omit anything he had heard, and not to put anything fictitious into the statements. [This is what is related by Papias regarding Mark; but with regard to Matthew he has made the following statements]: Matthew put together the oracles [of the Lord] in the Hebrew language, and each one interpreted them as best he could. [The same person uses proofs from the First Epistle of John, and from the Epistle of Peter in like manner. And he also gives another story of a woman who was accused of many sins before the Lord, which is to be found in the Gospel according to the Hebrews.]

Many modern scholars don't exactly agree with Papias' rendition of things though. The prevailing theory in academia today is the source theory, and in particular the source theory called Markan Priority. Basically its argued that Mark is the simplest, and thus earliest of the synoptics, and that Matthew and Luke knew of and borrowed from Mark as a source for their books. But there also commonalities in Luke and Matthew that are not found in Mark, so its theorized that along with Mark there was probably another book or at least a common tradition shared between them that has since been lost to history. This book or sayings have been labeled "Q", which comes from the German word "quelle", which means "source". ALSO, Matthew, Mark and Luke have completely original material that they share with no other books. Now, there are some scholars (currently in the minority) that buck against this source hypothesis, that reject Q, and suggest Matthean priority. Basically Matthew was first, and Mark borrowed from Matthew, and Luke borrowed from Mark and Matthew. This is called Augustinian Hypothesis.

As for the Old Testament, that's a whole nother story. The OT was compiled throughout centuries. It should probably be kept in mind that academia for the OT is very very secular compared to that of the NT. I'm not really sure what the poster US_Hiker was on about in his reply to you, but anyways, its theorized that the books of the OT weren't written and edited in the periods they claim to be written and edited. The prevailing theory for the OT is called the Documentary Hypothesis. For a long time, the accepted hypothesis was labeled JEPD, and this stands for the following sources: Yahwist (or Jawist), Elohist, Deuteronomist, and Priestly. Its a pretty confusing theory that says that writers of the Old Testament regularly redacted and changed the order of the OT during different periods. And that the OT was compiled from approx. 950-500 BC. The theory has been manipulated and altered a number of times, especially when embarrassing archaeological finds like the silver scrolls found at Ketef Hinnom pushed some writings far further back than were expected by scholars. In my opinion, a great, very thorough, slightly academic book to read on modern theories about the Old Testament would be professor Richard S. Hess' Israelite Religions: An Archaeological and Biblical Survey.

Concerning archaeological finds, or the lack thereof for say, the Exodus, I think one's presuppositions have a lot to do with what you accept or not. If you're an unbelieving archaeologist, you might expect to find some noticeable traces of an enormous group of people wandering the desert for 40 years. So far, we can't find any. But, if you're a believer who agrees with Genesis that God provided for these people with manna from heaven that rotted away if stored up, or of clothes that miraculously never wore out, then you're not going to find a whole lot in a desert. There are a handful of scholars that also believe the entire Egyptian dating system that scholars use as a measuring tool for the pre-Roman world is off by a few dynasties. One of the better known archaeologists known for his new chronology of the Egyptian period is egyptologist David Rohl. His ideas are currently on the fringe, but seem to be gaining some traction. His book Pharaohs and Kings: A Biblical Quest is a beautiful and very interesting book on the subject.

Ok, so, sorry that was so long, but like I said, this is a very very broad subject. If you have any questions, let me know.

Have a terrific day!

It took me quite some time before I shared with my wife, and it was a few months after that before we shared together with our children. It was the hardest thing I have ever done. The best advice I was given was to "just be Jesus to her." Even before that advice my wife later said she had noticed a positive change in me. She could tell something happened for the better and yet at the same time wondered if I was detaching myself from TSCC.

Take this time to study and have a replacement ready so when you do talk with your family they're not just left hanging and without direction.I've been where you are. My search for the existence or non-existence of God consumed me and lasted for years as I had no one to initially guide my efforts. I would not be duped again! As a result I am now chasing a PhD in philosophy of religion. Philosophy of religion and philosophical theology are two academic disciplines that utilize the philosophical method for examining the evidence for God and examining the truth chains of religion. Top universities throughout the world have departments that specialize in it. After years of study, I have come down on the side for the existence of God. Our family is now a part of Protestant Christianity, although not tied to one denomination.

Below are some good sources for beginning. Reasonable Faith is a great website with lots of information, I would take some time looking through it. It also has a podcast titled "Defenders" under "Media" that will really begin to ground you in a mature understanding of the topic. "On Guard" is an excellent book to get you started as well. Try not to get caught up in the cynicism that plagues so many of us who have left the TSCC. Healthy skepticism is ok. It merely says that you want sufficient reason to believe something is true or more plausible than not. Cynicism on the other hand is a bitter and unhealthy hyper-skepticism that is shut off to further examination.

I hope everything goes great for you. If there is anything further I can do or any questions you have please don't hesitate to ask.

Al my best, There's success on the other side of this.

https://www.reasonablefaith.org

https://www.amazon.com/Guard-Students-Thinkers-Guide-Christian-ebook/dp/B00U894IGA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1520306101&sr=8-3&keywords=on+guard+william+lane+craig

https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-Lewis-Signature-Classics-ebook/dp/B002BD2UR0/ref=pd_ybh_a_13?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ET4M1H0BNR1J0S4RA6ZW

https://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Religion-Basics-Jargon-Free-Beginners-ebook/dp/B0088DXG2A/ref=pd_ybh_a_19?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ET4M1H0BNR1J0S4RA6ZW

https://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Religion-Anthology-Louis-Pojman/dp/1111305447/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1520385625&sr=8-22&keywords=Philosophy+of+religion

Don't be afraid and follow where God leads you. Remember some of the greatest minds in science, philosophy, and art were Catholic.

Use your inquisitive mind to lead you to the truth about faith just as you do with science. There are abundant catholic sources online that can answer questions you might have. You might like http://www.strangenotions.com/ but www.catholic.com is a great place for answers to specific questions regarding faith. Peter Kreeft also has a good book (one of many) you might like, Jacob's Ladder: Ten Steps to Truth

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/158617732X/theofficiapet-20#

>"Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart the desire to know the truth — in a word, to know himself — so that by knowing and loving God, men and women can come to the fullness of the truth about themselves"

• St. John Paul II, Fides et Ratio

Nicaea is a common misconception. The Council of Nicaea was actually about dealing with a dissenting opinion by a man named Arius, who claimed that though Jesus was divine, he was created by the Father, and thus less divine than Him. By 325, nearly all of Christianity agreed on Jesus' divinity, though it was not officially spelled out until then, mostly because there was no need. In fact, most of the battles the early church had were about people over-emphasizing Jesus' divinity rather than de-emphasizing it (see Docetism). Even the very first recorded heresy in the church was about Jesus being so divine, his divinity was contrary to the Jewish/Old Testament divinity (see Marcion; this was around 100 AD/CE).

It is true, as you claim, that Jesus does not directly claim to be God, and that the title Son of God is used elsewhere to refer to non-divine figures. However, reading the Gospels, one simply must admit that the authors did view Jesus as both divine and God incarnate. Some of the disciples were very educated men, who very wary of false claims to divinity, yet they were convinced that Jesus both was and claimed to be divine. As someone else in this thread mention, the Gospels are not just about Jesus says, but also about what he does, and about what others say about him - for example, John 1 is a clear claim to Jesus' divinity, as are the numerous miracles attributed to him. Even if we were just to use Jesus' direct quotes, it becomes evident that he wanted his audience to infer his divinity; take, for example, the "I am" statements, which were loaded phrases to a Jew (see here). I would encourage to study resources as to why the Gospels can be trusted as mostly accurate accounts (the fact is, they are extraordinarily more reliable, by a historian's criteria, than any other historical document ever), preferably from scholars not concerned with reconstructing a 'historical Jesus' - I would recommend Reinventing Jesus.

Trivia: At Niceae, Saint Nicholas, the inspiration for Santa Claus, punched Arius in the face and broke his nose. This always amuses me.

>It's already been done to no end.

Then why is there no general consensus among scientists or philosophers that god exists?

>But in summary:
>
>The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Complexity doesn't mean design so this point doesn't work. Not evidence that a god is real elt alone your specific god.

>The universe had a start - what caused it?

Actually, the big bang theory doesnt state that the universe began. So this is an incorrect statment.

>The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.

...none of this is evidence that a god is real elt alone your specific god.

>We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him. Just like this conversation between you and me.

Do you have empirical verifiable evidence for this claim?

>Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.https://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.htmlhttps://www.amazon.com/Evidence-God-Arguments-History-Philosophy/dp/0801072603

Lmao, what? What does that mean? How is that evidence that your god is real?

>God makes sense of objective moral values in the world.

Lmao, what? Can you even prove objective morality exists?

>God makes sense of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

Lmao, what? Are you just saying random things? How is this evidence?

>God can be immediately known and experienced.

Evidence that he can? Can you provide a study?

>https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/existence-nature-of-god/does-god-exist/We can infer what might be true about God from what we observe in the universe.

You need to prove god exists first or else this would be circular reasoning.

>We look at the physical universe, human nature and culture and we observe things which may be clues to the existence or nature of the supernatural.

Again , see above.

>God may have entered the Universe and told us true things about himself, morality, meaning and how to have a relationship with him. This is called Revelation.

There is no evidnece that this is the case.

>There cannot be an infinite series of past causes.

Okay? Thats not evidence that your god is real.

>I could go on, and will, if you continue.

Lmao, did you seriously think any of this was evidence that your Christian god is real? Are you serious? This is a joke right?

Would you mind explaining what you meant when you wrote

>If he doesn't... well, he obviously isn't. => rather than <=>. Christ.

I'm just not following but you potentially have a good point.

Edit: Since they don't seem to want to respond to me, I'll go ahead and explain what I thought they were trying to get at.

The usefulness of apologetics that argue for the existence of "God", generically, is debatable. They can be used to some effect with people, but they all fall short. Christians, however, have a very unique advantage in trying to prove the existence of God. We believe that God has acted in history to such an extent that we can know it just about as well as we can know any event from that time period. And He has done so in the person and work of Jesus Christ. Starting with Christ, it is much easier to work your way back to God.

The argument basically goes that if Christ really did exist and do what Scripture says He did, then God must exist because Christ is God incarnate acting in human history. And the evidence that we do have suggests that Christ did exist and do what Scripture says He did. Therefore, God exists.

Dr. John Warwick Montgomery is a phenomenal Christian apologist and has developed what I think is one of the most robust defense of the Christian faith. I strongly recommend this playlist of lectures and interviews he has given that lays out his argument.

Another excellent name in the field of apologetics is Dr. Gary Habermas of Liberty University. He had a long friendship with the man who literally wrote the book on atheism, Dr. Antony Flew. They held several public debates, during which Dr. Flew had to admit that the conclusion of Christianity is a logical conclusion to the evidence that we have. The transcript and an analysis of their last public debate is available in the book Did the Resurrection Happen? A Conversation with Gary Habermas and Antony Flew.

My suggestions don't really explain the Bible, but they are thought-provoking and fascinating if you like science.

Creation and Time

Beyond the Cosmos (I found this book really interesting.)

The Creator and the Cosmos

The Fingerprint of God

These are all by the same guy, and I really enjoyed them a great deal, so I fully recommend them to you.

I also enjoy Christian fantasy books, for example:

The Dragon King Trilogy: In the Hall of the Dragon King

The Warlords of Nin

The Sword and the Flame

The Pendragon Cycle: Taliesin

Merlin

Arthur

Pendragon

Grail

To be honest, I haven't read the last two, they weren't out yet when I read these books.

I also recommend some classics like Lilith by George MacDonald.

The Case for Christ

Anyway, that's all I can think of at this time. If I think of anything else, I'll update this list.

He's so readable that I can definitely recommend skipping the books about St. Augustine and just going directly to the source. As others have mentioned, Confessions. Others you may be interested in are City of God and On Grace And Free Will.

Also, as /u/Philip_Schwartzerdt mentioned, John Calvin isn't typically considered one of the Church Fathers given that his time on earth came in the 16th century. In fact, as a Catholic, we would consider him a heretic, but that's neither here nor there. :)

For other early Church Fathers books, you may want to check out this collection of writings from the early church, Against Heresies by St. Iranaeus, countering heresy in the early Church, and The First And Second Apologies by St. Justin Martyr, a convert to the faith at about 130 A.D. and who was martyred (surprise) around 165 A.D.

As you may have guessed, with me being a Catholic in the Roman Rite, that's the perspective to which my study of the early Church Fathers led me, but if you wish to get a primer on St. Irenaeus before the books come, this is a worthwhile read.

I highly encourage the study of the fathers. The whole Christian world disagrees on many parts of of Sacred Scripture, and the testimony of the fathers, especially those who were direct disciples of the Apostles, should be one of our primary sources of discerning Christian truth amid the chaos. Plainly put, there are many interpretations of Scripture which "make sense" or are feasible outside of the tradition of the Apostles, but if said interpretation is true, it should be reflected in the doctrines, beliefs, and practices of those whom the Apostles taught.

I'll pray for you as you jump into this study. Please reach out if I can be of any help!

Peace,

DK

>decide to throw out insults again

Okay, I'll just keep it to your level of sneering and bile then will I?

>In no dictionary is "suspect" the same as "prove".

Absolutely. This makes zero difference though, as I said. The fact that we have no contemporary references to Jesus neither "proves" nor gives us sufficient reason to "suspect" that he didn't exist. Whatever verb you use, the argument is still junk. BTW, I never used the word "prove" anyway - you introduced that, Mr Strawman.

>Who is claimed to be god.

Irrelevant. Quite a few historical people in the ancient world came to be regarded as gods - this tells us zero about whether they existed.

>And yes, you would expect plenty of people to write about events such as a guy resurrecting from the dead and so forth.

Aaaand there you go shifting the goal posts again. Where have I said I am arguing for any guy who raised the dead etc? The argument from silence has some validity against the Jesus of Faith, given that you would expect a dead-raising, water-walking, thousands-feeding Wonder Jesus to get quite a bit more notice than your average early first century Jewish preacher. But I'm not talking about the Jesus of Faith, I'm talking about an average early first century preacher.

So you need to explain why we should have evidence for this average early first century preacher that we don't have for any others. Shifting the goal posts to talk about something else just failed. Try again.

>We do have contemporary evidence of some first century preachers. As it so happens, not all of them were illiterate like Jesus was supposedly.

I said "early first century preachers, prophets and Messianic claimants", ie the ones from Jesus' time, in the first decades of the first century. Compare like with like. If you have contemporary references to any of those (you know, Theudas, Athronges, Simon the Galilean, Hillel, the Egyptian), bring it on. It would be nice for you to actually stick your head over the parapet for a change rather than make these arch little oblique comments. But that "small target strategy" thing is a key part of your weak shtick.

>I asked you for the source of this

What would this source be, exactly? Anyone who can read English and understand the words "contemporary" and "reference" would be able to grasp the concept, so where would such a simple concept need to be defined? Historiography for Kids Who Don't Read Too Good perhaps?

>You quoted something supposedly

No I didn't. I put my definition of it in inverted commas to indicate how it would read, if any source ever needed to define a concept that is clear from the plain English meaning of the words. Perhaps I now need to reveal to you that Historiography for Kids Who Don't Read Too Good doesn't actually exist just in case you now spend two to three responses shrieking that I need to give its ISBN and Library of Congress reference number or you will have scored another mighty victory-in-your-mind.

>There is no such thing as a "post mortem" reference in the field.

There is one in the English language. It's another term that makes perfect sense to anyone who can read above sixth grade level. As is "contemporary reference". Those above the "kids who don't read too good" level can also see that "contemporary" in this context means "while the person referred to is alive" and "post mortem" means, by contrast, "after the person referred to is dead". Words are your friends.

>Would you believe it's in the very first link of your given link? Didn't expect that one did you?

Gosh! Another mighty triumph for Victory Boy! Or ... ummm ... not. Let's see - the first link I gave was to footnote 10 on page 109 of Clio and the Poets: Augustan Poetry and the Traditions of Ancient Historiography. I can't see where that footnote uses "contemporary reference" in your odd way, so maybe you can drop the tedious school-yard "if you don't know I'm not going to tell you, so nyah nyah nyah!" act for a change and explain what you're talking about.

PS You still haven't coughed up any examples of any historian referring to Polybius' mentions of Hannibal as "contemporary". What's taking so long? What seems to be the hold up? And why do you keep snipping this challenge out of your replies? chuckle

>You've already agreed with this ... when you claimed he undermined himself.

And that's amounts to a "lie"? How? Read the text - he says he received his message from his vision of Jesus and that he's not subordinate to the "pillars" in Jerusalem. Then he says that he only met Peter and James when he went to Jerusalem after his vision, and nobody else. Of course, his argument here would be stronger if he didn't go to Jerusalem at all and/or didn't meet any of the Jesus sect leaders, but he doesn't say that because it's clearly known he met Peter and James. So his admission that he did meet Peter and James undercuts the force of the argument he's making. He doesn't "lie" and my note about what he says undercutting his argument stands. It means that his meeting with Peter and James is clearly something that happened and therefore something that he couldn't lie about.

And remember how we got onto this subject? You were claiming that Polybius being alive as a child when the ageing Hannibal was still alive in another part of the world, then reading some books about him and writing about him 30-60 years after his death is "a contemporary reference". Yet, at the same time, you're somehow also trying to argue that Paul living as a slightly younger adult contemporary (oooh - there's that word again!) of Jesus, in the same part of the world and meeting and speaking to his best friend and his brother and then writing about him 20 years after his death ... isn't. Or something. And somehow you expect these two contradictory positions to be taken seriously because .... waves hands around making squeaking noises.

It's always good to keep dragging wanky discursive bluffers like you back to their own vomit for a bit of good natured rubbing-their-nose-in-it. Just in case anyone in the peanut gallery is still reading and losing track of how stupid your tangled nonsense really is.

>Good for him. Completely irrelevant and a non-sequitur.

more chuckles
You: Paul is a liar, that's why no-one arguing for a historical Jesus uses him and they use Josephus and Tacitus instead.
Me: Ummm, the most prominent scholar who has bothered to address the Jesus myth fringe-dwellers does exactly the opposite. You were saying?
You: IRRELEVANT! NON-SEQUITUR! ALARM! ALARM!

This really is a most amusing exchange. You're like the gift that keeps on giving. (I actually just accidental wrote "the git that keeps on giving". Naughty typos!)

Then we get back to the stentorian-assertions-substituted-for-argument:

>the New Testament isn't considered reliable. For obvious reasons. To make a case for a historical version, you must state that the New Testament is wrong and a book of mythical events.

Yes. It's a good thing those silly old scholars who believe we can critically analyse ancient texts to determine what historical elements may lie behind them have assertion-blurting anonymous internet nobodies to set them straight. Whatever would we do without you guys?

>why do you think he's the primary source for King Arthur stuff?

Ummm, he isn't. Hint: this may be because he doesn't mention Arthur anywhere.

>Do you even understand what you're saying anymore?

I understand that the idea that a source that doesn't mention Arthur at all can't be "the most (sic) key source for King Arthur". In fact I have a bright five year old nephew would would grasp that. I also know why Gildas is tangentially relevant to the question of the historicity of Arthur and am getting great amusement at watching you get increasingly tangled in your blundering mention of him in the first place. It's also hilarious that your tone become more and more strident and triumphant as the ice creaks and cracks under your skates.

> Christians aren't offended of historical versions of Jesus.

Really? Because these Christians sure are:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007V91I7M

www.amazon.com/Finding-Real-Jesus-Christians-Skeptical-ebook/dp/B0031QHH4M

There's a whole Christian genre of "how them durn scholars with their danged book larnin' gone told a pack o' LIES about JAYsus!"

Despite this, the durn scholars keep on producing work on Jesus that flies in the face of Christianity and yet continue to consider the "Jesus myth" thesis to be amateur hour junk. You still haven't explained all this. Try again - it's fun to watch you spin in circles.

Toodle pip!

In that case I have two books that explain this issue pretty well and give multiple answers to your question. Both of these books are pretty simple and you can probably find a lot of other ones that discuss the topic but these are the two I've found explain in simplistic terms.

The Universe Next Door --- This books gives a great look at a large range of different world views. It answers your question for each of those world views and pretty much leaves it up to the reader to think what they want.

Man's Search for Meaning --- This book is a specific account of a guy who spent time in the concentration camps during WWII. The first half is his account of that and the second half is his explanation on why he kept on living. Very interesting read.

This question you ask is a huge philosophical topic and it's hard to give a simple answer. Good luck.

I think it's a little much to ask for philosophical and theological rigorousness from the average churchgoer.

That's a bit like expecting your average computer user to know what a logic gate is. I assure you, my mother has no idea what a logic gate is, nor that her computer is full of millions of them, but she uses a computer every day regardless.

Why don't you stop worrying about what people who don't put a whole lot of thought into their faith say, and actually pay attention to the best theological and philosophical minds Christianity has to offer?

If you really want to know more about the doctrine of the love of God, D.A. Carson wrote a book about it: The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God, by D.A. Carson

I'd recommend staying away from Christopher Hitchens until you've eased into Atheist literature a bit more. Even though I'm an Atheist, I find that his writing, although well thought out and effective, is a bit more combative and condescending than I would like.

That said, a book that I found interesting (well, the first half. I never read the second half) was by Karl Giberson, who holds a PhD in Physics.

Before anyone says anything, I would like to say that, although Evolution is a scientific fact, we as humans still don't know how it got started. That said, I don't see any proof that a god(s) or more advanced intellect had any part in creating life on Earth. I'm perfectly content with our existence being a happy, torturous, blissful, agonizing one.

It's already been done to no end.

But in summary:

1. The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
   
   
2. The universe had a start - what caused it?
   
   
3. The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?
   
   
4. The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.
   
   
5. We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him. Just like this conversation between you and me.
   
   
6. Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.
   
   https://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html
   
   https://www.amazon.com/Evidence-God-Arguments-History-Philosophy/dp/0801072603
   
   
7. God makes sense of objective moral values in the world.
   
   
8. God makes sense of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.
   
   
9. God can be immediately known and experienced.
   
   https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/existence-nature-of-god/does-god-exist/
   
   
10. We can infer what might be true about God from what we observe in the universe. We look at the physical universe, human nature and culture and we observe things which may be clues to the existence or nature of the supernatural.
    
    
11. God may have entered the Universe and told us true things about himself, morality, meaning and how to have a relationship with him. This is called Revelation.
    
    
12. There cannot be an infinite series of past causes.
    
    http://gradresources.org/evidence-for-gods-existence/
    
    
    I could go on, and will, if you continue.

The Society of Biblical Literature (the main learned society for the field) launched an educational site this year called Bible Odyssey, featuring the complete contents of the HarperCollins Bible Dictionary and a lot of original content. Have a look through the "Bible Basics" section. Before the site was launched, it was announced that it would include the great, scholarly articles from the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary, and let us all hope that this will eventually be accomplished.

In buying a Bible, remember that it is a collection of literature written thousands of years ago in exotic foreign cultures; such a journey is not to be undertaken without a guide. You need an annotated edition. The HarperCollins Study Bible and the New Oxford Annotated Bible are both excellent references. Those Bibles have maps in the back, but the Oxford Bible Atlas may be a useful supplement. If you're not looking to spend a lot, the New American Bible is a great translation with lighter, but still very illuminating notes.

For background on the societies in which the Bible and Christianity were formed, The Ancient Mediterranean World: From the Stone Age to A.D. 600. For studies on what can be known about Jesus from historical evidence, The Historical Figure of Jesus by E. P. Sanders and Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium by Bart Ehrman. (Ehrman has a blog which is worth the subscription; you can also learn a lot from his lectures and interviews on YouTube.)

For the perspective of modern Christians and not just information about the religion's history, Orthodoxy by G. K. Chesterton and Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis are two books that are considered classics by many Christians today, across denominational lines. There's a sort of intellectual line running through the two, since Lewis was converted from atheism by reading Orthodoxy (although he did not become a Catholic like Chesterton, as his friend J. R. R. Tolkien had hoped).

Have fun!

Well, it would depend on what you feel your soul is looking for right now.

You say you're agnostic, there are books for people who want to get a sense of the existence of God, like Jacob's Ladder: Ten Steps to Truth. Peter Kreeft, the author of the book, has a handy section on his website going over various perspectives on the verification of God's existence.

There are books for people who want to get to know Catholic faith a little better before committing, like Waking Up Catholic: A Guide to Catholic Beliefs for Converts, Reverts, and Anyone Becoming Catholic.

There are books for people who want to get to know the Catholic faith more in depth, and have some hurdles to overcome, particularly from the protestant objections, like Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism, from an anti-Catholic Presbyterian minister whose battle against the faith pulled him into it.

There are people who come to the Church by reading on the lives of saints, others by reading on the history of the church and how it built western civilization, and others just by reading the news. It's not just a purely intelectual exercise, this is a spiritual quest and as such you have to give your soul what it yearns for.

Reading your responses, it seems like the major sticking point is your misconception that becoming a Christian means giving up the discoveries of science or modern cosmology. As a Christian, I'd like to emphasize that what you believe about the age of the universe or how we got here as a species has absolutely no bearing on your standing with God.

There are many arguments for the existence of God; William Lane Craig summarizes a few here. But I would ask you to zero in on the one argument that makes Christianity unique among world religions, and that is its foundation in an historical event: the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. If this one event never occurred, there is no basis for Christianity.

Fortunately for Christians, the historicity of the resurrection is well established. And you can arrive at this position without first accepting that the New Testament is infallible or inerrant. Gary Habermas is a well-known authority on the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth and the resurrection. You may be interested in starting with a book that captures a dialogue between him and atheist Antony Flew.

Whatever you conclude, please don't decide that something is true simply because you want it to be so. Truth is that which accurately describes reality, whether we like it or not. If in the interest of pleasing this girl you were to pretend that Christianity is true while believing it to be false, you may irreparably damage the relationship.

Fam, I relate quite a bit with this kind of struggle. I can say with confidence though that I bowed the knee to Christ when I was nine. Before that, I can’t remember hardly anything about myself, only that I was raised in a solid believing family. So like you, I can’t remember any time in my life where I didn’t seek Christ. Going through high school & early college (I’m now 23), I seriously doubted whether or not I “knew” what I was committing to or acknowledging. But what’s given me confidence today has just been simply examining myself like Paul told us to see whether or not we are in the faith. That’s given me assurance of my salvation.

Whenever I hear a struggle like this though I consider it super encouraging that you desperately want scripture to be true. To me, that sounds like the Spirit testifying to the heart. Also, I think we should consider that God has shown some people (like you & I) so much grace that we’ve spent most of our lives with him (as opposed to being exposed first to many aspects of life that a lost person experiences). It gives us all the more reason to praise him; he saved us quite early!

P.S. - Strictly concerning the apologetic issue, over the past few months I’ve become acquainted with presuppositional apologetics, a.k.a. not your grandmother’s apologetics. The essence of this form of apologetic is that no other worldview even makes sense of us or the world we live in without truth found in scripture, and a proper understanding of what God says in scripture completely knocks down any argument against it. It’s a worthy deep-dive but I’ll just name drop if you’re curious about more: Cornelius Van Til, Greg Bahnsen (two early practitioners), K. Scott Oliphint , Sye Ten Bruggencate , Douglas Wilson , Jeff Durbin .

>I also really want to show him that Christianity is not just a white religion. Being a black Muslim is like a “thing” in a way that being black Christian is not a “thing” if that makes sense.

Yeah I'm not sure where that line of logic (Islam = black religion; Christianity = white religion) came from because I've met many people who believed the same. Considering the fact that Islam has a long history of enslaving Africans ...

James White is pretty much at the forefront of the apologetic work on Islam. I highly recommend his book, What Every Christian Should Know About the Qur'an. You can also find a lot of his Dividing Line broadcasts on YouTube where he talks about Islam.

>Also is it worth reading the Koran to better understand his mindset and to build some kind of bridge or something?

It doesn't hurt just as long as understand that reading a translation of the Qur'an means you haven't read the Qur'an because it can only be read in Arabic. While English translations try to make the Bible understandable, the English translations of the Qur'an purposely use archaic language to try and give the Qur'an an air of supremacy (for lack of a better word).

For people who are interested in this topic

I have been picking up the most boring books and articles over the past few years on this topic because to me it is one of the most interesting topics on the planet. Below are some resources which I first used when finding & approaching this subject.

I highly recommend these short, fairly-down-to-earth books:

• Misquoting Truth
  
  
• Dethroning Jesus
  
  
• The Synoptic Problem (this one, only if the other two interest you a lot. It takes a look at how the four gospels were written/developed)
  
  Some articles by one of today's leading Textual Critics (he has been in many public debates with Bart Ehrman [the guy in the OP article])
  
  
• Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today
  
  
• The Synoptic Problem
  
  
• Some Second Thoughts on the Majority Text
  
  
• Interview With Daniel B. Wallace on Textual Criticism
  
  
• The Gospel according to Bart
  
  
• My Take on Inerrancy
  
  I'd be happy to try and tackle any questions about the subject, at the very least I know I can point you to the right place to ask.
  
  edit: formatting

I would say it's supernatural. Don't stop praying the rosary. One time, While I was praying to work, it felt like while praying the rosary, I felt a spiritual breaking of chains. Just attribute it as awesome and keep on praying. Consider it a blessing:)

Read the Secret of the Rosary and after the Rosary get this book http://www.amazon.com/Devotion-Precious-Blood-Jesus-Christ/dp/1579182720/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1450317863&sr=8-1&keywords=precious+blood+of+jesus

and this one http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/rosa-mystica4.htm

and get green scapulars. and get brown scapulars. get the 5 fold scapular. get the bible, read it. You can get a plenary indulgence for reading the bible 30 minutes, going to mass, confession, praying 1 our father 1 creed and 1 ave maria and gloria and detachment from all sin, then saying your intention for a plenary indulgence...(removal of punishment due to sin=no purgatory and no punishments of sin here on earth) get it every day... if you can...and make sure to above all else...go to adoration... and mass daily...and do not hesitate to get st. benedict medals and holy water all over your house. ask your priest to bless oil and exorcise salt put over your house and get this book https://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/EVIDSATN.HTM

reading this book
http://www.amazon.com/City-Penguin-Classics-Augustine-Hippo/dp/0140448942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1450318220&sr=8-1&keywords=city+of+god

keep going to adoration and search-- get that peace!

Check out Dr. Brant Pitre's [The Case for Jesus] (https://www.amazon.com/Case-Jesus-Biblical-Historical-Evidence/dp/0770435483) and Nabeel Qureshi's books [Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus] (https://www.amazon.com/Seeking-Allah-Finding-Jesus-Christianity/dp/0310527236) and [No God but One: Allah or Jesus?] (https://www.amazon.com/God-but-One-Investigates-Christianity/dp/0310522552/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RQKED6JFR7154CQFB370)

As for Bible difficulties, Trent Horn's [Hard Sayings] (https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Sayings-Catholic-Answering-Difficulties/dp/1941663745/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492022538&sr=8-1&keywords=hard+sayings).

Also give [this] (https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-great-and-enduring-heresy-of-mohammed) and [this] (https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/asking-the-right-question-about-islams-god). You can also browse that site, as it will help.


Christianity rises or falls on the resurrection. Start [here] (http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/resurrection-evidence.htm) and [here] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ErnJF_nwBk&list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TUYymBPce08oyuhnHLLkR_B) for some info on it; NT Wright has a book on it that is supposed to be good but I haven't read it.

I understand that there might not be many Christians in your area, but you might want to find a local parish priest and talk to him. He can give you a lot of advice. Also, feel free to PM me as I am also a convert (not from Islam, however).

I think Hugh Ross has some great ideas in Beyond the Cosmos: What Recent Discoveries in Astrophysics Reveal About the Glory and Love of God

Ha. I'm really curious what it says. A quick google search reveals...

http://www.livingwaters.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=29&category_id=7&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=199

The site is pro-religion, so the reviews are all positive. The site kind of creeps me out, in fact.

There's an Amazon link too, lets see what it says...

http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Facts-Bible-Reasons-Supernatural/dp/0882708791

Here we go. That's some good reviews.

I'm actually more interested in reading the Christian books, since I've read pretty much all of the popular atheist literature:

Orthodoxy

Mere Christianity

But of course there's good atheist literature too:

HPMOR and others that I'll think of and post later I suppose.

Tim Keller has some good advice about approaching new atheists in general.

You might try some things by Alister McGrath, on Dawkins views in general or specifically on the Dawkins Delusion. There's several links here, and the correspondence with Mike Poole takes on some of the more aggressive claims down the bottom of the page. William Lane Craig makes points on who designed the designer. In fact he has quite a few videos like that which can at least be a starting point.

But really the best defence against Dawkins is simply to get to know the facts. Get a book or two on the historic relationship between science and Christianity. Get to know about Christianity and what historic Christians have actually said, and it will be harder for people to present you with strawmen. Get to know what you think first, and then you know what to defend.

Questions are good. There are lots of resources on theology and philosophy that you could work with. I suggest Reason for the Hope and Intellectuals Don't Need God and Other Modern Myths as overviews.

I would also encourage you to ask these questions within a community of other Christians. Many will have thought about them before and could help with answers, or if not, they could think about them alongside you.

Are there very specific questions you have? I could perhaps recommend a specific book on the subject.

> loving a group of people doesn't seem like an attribute, but an attitude.

That's kinda what I'm getting at. If you haven't already read it, I'd encourage you to take a look at The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God by D.A. Carson.

I would recommend Reason for the Hope Within for Christian apologetics. I know the professor who wrote the chapter on arguments for God, and he's an intellectually honest person.

Hi FiddlyChickens, I think you are on the right track of seeking the truth, and going where the evidence points. I think you are absolutely correct in identifying the supreme importance of answering this question first, since the implications are so tremendous.

I'll offer a Christian perspective on this search: as the atheists here repeatedly and correctly affirm, the best way to investigate Christian theism is to read the bible and do so with an open mind. You may have already spent extensive time studying the bible, but if not, the gospel of John (or any of the gospels) is a great place to start. I would avoid the man-made church traditions of Catholicism or any other Christian denomination until your question re: theism has been resolved. Surround yourself with respectful, open-minded people. Meditate, leave time for personal stillness, and journal.

If you're looking for strong arguments on the Christian side, read the "Student's Edition" (written to non-Christians) of On Guard by William Lane Craig (be forewarned, WLC is almost universally despised here) or Jesus Among other gods by Ravi Zacharias.

RE: Horrific thoughts

Indeed. I think these 'horrific thoughts' are some of the most common and basic thoughts to all honest people. For biblical responses and perspective, read Matthew 11:28, Jeremiah 29:13, and Matthew 7:7. The promise of God is that those who seek God find him.

And re: Your sexuality being a curse: Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation for those in Christ; gay, straight, or otherwise.

“Whoever [in speaking to another person] is not committed to the truth—such a person, from that moment on, no longer considers the other as a partner, as equal. In fact, he no longer respects the other as a human person. . . . [The other person] becomes an object to be manipulated, possibly dominated.” -Josef Pieper

The point here being that it is easy for theists and atheists to pick out weak arguments and pretend that is the best the other side has to offer but that is intellectually dishonest. If you wish to be an atheist, that is your decision, but you should at least try to read and understand the best arguments from the other side before doing so.

https://www.amazon.com/Christian-Apologetics-Comprehensive-Biblical-Faith/dp/0830839356/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501512539&sr=8-1&keywords=groothuis+christian+apologetics is a good book on the topic.

http://www.str.org/ is good if the previous read is too difficult for you.

Part 3: Book recommendations:

If you want to dig deep into this topic, here are some book recommendations. Perhaps you would want to read N.T. Wright's Christian Origins and the Question of God series (this is very heavy, scholarly reading). N.T. Wright is the foremost scholar on the New Testament and this is possibly the most thorough literature on the historical Jesus, early Christianity and the Apostle Paul:

https://www.logos.com/product/37361/christian-origins-and-the-question-of-god-series

Anything by N.T. Wright is well worth reading (Simply Christian and Surprised by Hope would be good introductions). Likewise, anything by Ravi Zacharias.

The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona: https://www.amazon.ca/Case-Resurrection-Jesus-Gary-Habermas/dp/0825427886

Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus: A Devout Muslim Encounters Christianity by Nabeel Qureshi: https://www.amazon.com/Books-Nabeel-Qureshi/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27%3ANabeel%20Qureshi

No God But One: Allah or Jesus?: A Former Muslim Investigates the Evidence for Islam and Christianity by Nabeel Qureshi: https://www.amazon.com/God-but-One-Investigates-Christianity/dp/0310522552/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1517050609&sr=1-2&refinements=p_27%3ANabeel+Qureshi

On Guard by William Lane Craig: https://www.amazon.ca/Guard-William-Lane-Craig/dp/1434764885/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526542104&sr=8-1&keywords=on+guard+william+lane+craig

The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus by Lee Strobel: https://www.amazon.ca/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308

Bonus reading: Heaven by Randy Alcorn: https://www.amazon.ca/Heaven-Randy-Alcorn/dp/0842379428/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1526542237&sr=1-1&keywords=randy+alcorn+heaven

Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis: https://www.amazon.ca/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926

Read anything by G.K. Chesterton, especially, The Everlasting Man


Answers to Common Objections and Questions:

Jesus’ Resurrection and Christian Origins: http://ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/jesus-resurrection-and-christian-origins/

The Evidence for Jesus: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/jesus-of-nazareth/the-evidence-for-jesus/

The Resurrection of Jesus: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/jesus-of-nazareth/the-resurrection-of-jesus/

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ as Christianity's Centerpiece: http://www.cslewisinstitute.org/The_Resurrection_of_Jesus_Christ_as_Christianitys_Centerpiece_FullArticle?fbclid=IwAR0oE22vtBvR2u--R78tSyW-51OpIbWBfWDNH2Ep8miBc9W6uUJMwMsz0yk

Origin, Meaning, Morality and Destiny: http://rzim.org/just-thinking/think-again-deep-questions/

Accompanying video to the link above: Why is Christianity True?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5qJPZySo7A

How Do You Know Christianity Is the One True Way of Living? | Abdu Murray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ze_SVg-0E&app=desktop

What makes Christianity unique among the world’s religions? Verifiability is a Christian Distinctive: https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/verifiability-is-a-christian-distinctive/

Is Jesus God? (Feat. Craig, Strobel, Habermas, Licona, Qureshi...): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dLoKCyDDAg&app=desktop

How Can Understanding Eyewitness Testimony Help Us Evaluate the Gospels?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tCDDsPXQSQ&app=desktop

Historical Evidence for the Resurrection - Can a Scientist Believe in the Resurrection? - Nabeel Qureshi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hD7w1Uja2o

‪Questioning Jesus: Critically Considering Christian Claims with Dr. Nabeel Qureshi‬: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UpuEDp4ObA

Did Jesus Rise From the Dead? | Yale 2014 | William Lane Craig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NAOc6ctw1s&app=desktop

Historical Resurrection of Christ?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Dc01HVlaM

‪Are The New Testament Documents Historically Credible?: ‬https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgdsIaqFAp4

Are the Gospels Accurate?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxrDy_G8h88

(Answer to the common objection: ‘the gospels are anonymous’)
Gospel Authorship—Who Cares?: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/question-answer/P40/gospel-authorshipwho-cares

What is the Evidence That Jesus Appeared Alive After His Death?: https://youtu.be/96WIa3pZISE

On Extra-Biblical Sources for Jesus' Post-Mortem Appearances: https://youtu.be/-Dbx7PPIIsQ

Did Jesus Rise From The Dead Or Was It A Hoax By His Followers?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aELRKdxV7Wk

Follow up to the previous video: ‪Did Jesus rise from the dead, or was it hallucinations by his followers?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29224I3x_M0&feature=youtu.be‬

‪Did the Disciples Invent the Resurrection?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOHUWsNDPZc‬

‪‬Facts to show the Resurrection is not fiction, by William Lane Craig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AduPVkqbis

‪‬Did Paul actually see the risen Jesus, or did he simply have some sort of vision?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yNdynwqtWI&t

What Do You Mean By ‘Literal?’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxQpFosrTUk

Evidence For Jesus' Resurrection: https://youtu.be/4iyxR8uE9GQ?t=1s

Death, Resurrection and Afterlife: https://youtu.be/HXAc_x_egk4?t=1s

Did Jesus Really Rise From The Dead?: https://youtu.be/KnkNKIJ_dnw?t=1s

4 Historical Facts That Prove Jesus Really Did Rise From The Dead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmKg62GDqF4

‪What About Pre-Christ Resurrection Myths?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrCYVk6xrXg‬

Jesus and Pagan Mythology: Is Jesus A Copied Myth or Real Person?: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/question-answer/jesus-and-pagan-mythology/

Zeitgeist - Is Jesus A Myth: https://alwaysbeready.com/zeitgeist-the-movie

Did Greco-Roman myths influence the Gospel accounts of the resurrection of Jesus?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pt9rlG7ABo&app=desktop

‪Does the Resurrection Require Extraordinary Evidence?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLN30A0vmlo‬

Moral Argument For God’s Existence: How Can A Good God Allow Evil? Does Life Have Meaning?: https://youtu.be/it7mhQ8fEq0

‪Are there Inconsistencies Between the Four Gospels?: https://youtu.be/sgdsIaqFAp4‬

‪Why Are There Differences in the Resurrection Accounts?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtz2lVGmXFI‬

Don't the Gospels Contradict One Another?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gt9kCwttVY

Why Differences Between the Gospels Demonstrate Their Reliability: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zimP8m3_hCk

Why the Gospels Can Differ, Yet Still Be Reliable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An5wU2hxIfM

Four Reasons the New Testament Gospels Are Reliable: http://coldcasechristianity.com/2015/four-reasons-the-new-testament-gospels-are-reliable/

Find Contradictions in the Bible All You Want: https://www.thepoachedegg.net/2019/05/apologetics-find-contradictions-in-the-bible-all-you-want.html

The Case for the Historicity and Deity of Jesus: https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/the-case-for-the-historicity-and-deity-of-jesus/

Bart Ehrman is one of the world's most renowned ancient historians/New Testament scholars, and he is an atheist. Listen to what he has to say on the matter of Jesus' existence: ‪The Historical Jesus DID Exist - Bart Ehrman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43mDuIN5-ww‬

‪Bart D Ehrman About the Historical Jesus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6U6TJ4cwSo‬

Extra-Biblical evidence: In addition to the gospel accounts and the letters from the Apostle Paul, we have sources outside the New Testament with references to Jesus in the writings of Josephus, Tacitus, Thallus, the Jewish Talmud, etc:

http://coldcasechristianity.com/2017/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible/

Is There Extrabiblical Evidence About Jesus' Life?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzP0Kz9eT_U&app=desktop

How do we know Jesus was really who he said he was?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ksvhHEoMLM&app=desktop


YouTube Channels to browse:

William Lane Craig - ReasonableFaithOrg: https://www.youtube.com/user/ReasonableFaithOrg?app=desktop

drcraigvideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/drcraigvideos?app=desktop

Ravi Zacharias - Ravi Zacharias International Ministries: https://www.youtube.com/user/rzimmedia?app=desktop

J. Warner Wallace - Cold-Case Christianity with J. Warner Wallace: https://www.youtube.com/user/pleaseconvinceme/featured?disable_polymer=1

The Bible Project: https://www.youtube.com/user/jointhebibleproject

Unbelievable?: https://www.youtube.com/user/PremierUnbelievable

David Wood - Acts17Apologetics: https://www.youtube.com/user/Acts17Apologetics

Nabeel Qureshi - NQMinistries: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCepxnLs6GWAxAyI8m2U9s7A/featured?disable_polymer=1

Randy Alcorn - Eternal Perspective Ministries with Randy Alcorn: https://www.youtube.com/user/eternalperspectives?app=desktop

Frank Turek - Cross Examined: https://www.youtube.com/user/TurekVideo

Brian Holdsworth: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdsworthdesign

http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Facts-Bible-Reasons-Supernatural/product-reviews/0882708791/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar


Amazon has some pretty funny one star reviews.

I'm a Christian that believes evolution.

If you love science I'd recommend these:

http://www.amazon.com/Language-God-Scientist-Presents-Evidence-ebook/dp/B000NY12E6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397140633&sr=8-1&keywords=francis+Collins

http://www.amazon.ca/Why-Universe-Is-Way-It/dp/0801071968

You can buy it yourself for around $6

If anyone knows of a list of the facts and their "proof" to them I am sure we would all love to see it posted.

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Universe-Is-Way-It/dp/0801071968

You may disagree with the premise of the book, but it does a great job of cataloging all the ways life would be impossible if "this" was any different.

In college, I took an Intro to Evolution class and we read [Saving Darwin] (http://www.amazon.com/Saving-Darwin-Christian-Believe-Evolution/dp/0061441732). A lot of the religious kids in the class seemed to like it and by the end of it, they accepted that it was possible to believe in God and still hold on to their beliefs.

If your doubt is cognitive or intellectual, I recommend good apologetics. I became a Christian about your age and transfered schools to major in Philosophy & Religion. One of my philosophy professors contributed a chapter to this book, written by professional philosophers in accessible language; and it's one of the best I've read.

Reason for the Hope Within

Here is another:

Intellectuals Don't Need God and Other Modern Myths

Related subjects:

Philosophers Who Believe: The Spiritual Journeys of 11 Leading Thinkers

God and the Philosophers

If your doubts are more experiential, let me know so I can recommend other books.

Also, it's OK to doubt. Every major figure in the Bible struggled with at least some form of doubt.

Did you know Amazon will donate a portion of every purchase if you shop by going to smile.amazon.com instead? Over $50,000,000 has been raised for charity - all you need to do is change the URL!

Here are your smile-ified links:

Karl Giberson

---

^^i'm ^^a ^^friendly bot

I mean your holy book.

http://whomadegod.org/2012/04/richard-dawkins-scientific-fallacies/
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/TBISBAFT7H15SB0P7
http://www.amazon.com/The-Dawkins-Delusion-Atheist-Fundamentalism/dp/0830837213

Different types of resources that could help you realize the fallacies of the books you proclaim as truth. (and people say new atheism isn't a religion....)

also relevant revelation 6:15, isaiah 2:19


the atmospheric cataclysms will be so dangerous that humanity will colonize underground. this is why at Christ's return they call out for the mountains to fall on them (because they're under them)


if this is an area of interest for you I respect this dude and hope to purchase his book after I graduate. this business is also probably no unworthy your attention, at least compared to whatever's on TV

I would recommend starting with Dr. Nabeel Qureshi's book, Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus and if that piques an interest in you, then his follow-up book No God but One for a more in-depth look at the specific evidence for Christianity over Islam.

The first words of this book:
"I Hope You Are Skeptical"...

http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Facts-Bible-Reasons-Supernatural/dp/0882708791/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1345311940&sr=8-5&keywords=Ray+comfort+bible

comes with a short preview of the book

SECTION | CONTENT

--|:--
Title | Putting Creation to the Test. Dr. Hugh Ross and Dr. Fuz Rana at Purdue University
Description | Follow RTB_Official for updates! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RTBofficial Twitter: https://twitter.com/RTB_official Instagram: http://instagram.com/rtb_official Website: http://www.reasons.org
Length | 2:33:38


SECTION | CONTENT

--|:--
Title | Has God Spoken? EVIDENCE FOR THE BIBLE pt1
Description | How could you prove that God has communicated to us? What would be a reasonable way to show that God has spoken? This video answers that question and deals with false prophecies in preparation for the next video in this series where we will begin to look at fulfilled prophecy in the Bible as proof that God has spoken. Full "Evidence for the Bible" playlist here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjnwldgqN8c&list=PLZ3iRMLYFlHuhA0RPKZFHVcjIMN_-F596 LINK to video about EVIDENCE for the Resurrection...
Length | 0:49:30


SECTION | CONTENT

--|:--
Title | The Resurrection Meets Skepticism - Gary Habermas, PhD
Description | Pomona First Baptist Church (February 22, 2015) - Lecture by Christian scholar and thinker Gary Habermas. Buy his books dealing with the evidence and arguments for the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus: http://www.amazon.com/Case-Resurrection-Jesus-Gary-Habermas/dp/0825427886 Did the Resurrection Happen?: A Conversation with Gary Habermas and Antony Flew: http://www.amazon.com/Did-Resurrection-Happen-Conversation-Habermas/dp/0830837183 The Historical Je...
Length | 0:48:10


SECTION | CONTENT

--|:--
Title | Evidence for the Resurrection | Mike Licona, PhD
Description | Faith Bible Church (October 2012) - Lecture by Mike Licona. This video is part of the 'Reasons Conference' playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-0zpu2toenZdKk7tuw3LUklHA1cvtNIA Author Bio: Michael R. Licona, Ph.D. in New Testament Studies (University of Pretoria), which he completed with distinction. He serves as external research collaborator at North-West University (Potchefstroom). Mike was interviewed by Lee Strobel in his book The Case for the Real Jesus and appeared in Strobe...
Length | 0:50:46


SECTION | CONTENT

--|:--
Title | Dr. Gary Habermas - Near Death Experiences
Description | Dr. Gary Habermas gives a Tactical Faith Lecture on the validity of near death experiences as possible proof against naturalism. Lecture was given at Southeastern Bible College.
Length | 0:57:54






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Carson - The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God

Reinventing Jesus – by J. Ed Komoszewski, M. James Sawyer, Daniel B. Wallace.

This book covers quite a bit of ground, including on the cannon of scripture. It is written by theologiana who are also professors, so the writing is not dry but engaging. It covers well worn ground, but puts its topics together in a response to thigns like 'The DaVinci Code' and other attacks on historical Christianity.

Reinventing Jesus

I highly recommend that you check it out!

The Universe Next Door. It's an eye-opening book about worldviews, with a brief overview of different contemporary worldviews and religions. It's incredible how OUR specific understanding of the world determines what we're willing to accept or believe; the book demonstrates Kant's point that we can only know things through our sense & experiences, and never objectively in-themselves. Recommended level, probably college freshman or so.

You are just trying to hide "the missing link" from the theory of evolution

http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Facts-Bible-Reasons-Supernatural/dp/0882708791/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372891758&sr=8-1&keywords=ray+comfort+scientific

Read this book, it's excellent in this subject!

Here, just use my Christmas list:

NIV Zondervan Study Bible

The Goldsworthy Trilogy

Prayer: Experiencing Awe and Intimacy with God

Perspectives on Israel and the Church: 4 Views

Tough Topics

Tough Topics 2

God's Design for Man and Woman

Planet Narnia

Paul and the Law

Covenantal Apologetics

The Erosion of Inerrancy in Evangelicalism

There's plenty more I'd recommend (like anything from John Piper), but that's a decent start.

I disagree with your painting the picture of the Bible as being somehow unreliable, but that is off topic.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying that it takes "years of serious study to understand Biblical canon"; its basic message is clear. To master the Bible may take a lifetime, but not its basic message.

Hmmm...not sure if my reply yesterday posted. Here it is.


I don't think I've ever shared here my reasons for belief in God. The environment is way too hostile. I also don't think anyone actually believes on the basis of argument, as arguments are more reflexive, secondary constructs made for a particular purpose. You can pick them up and put them down.

I think CS Lewis is good for opening ideas, but he wasn't a philosopher, so there's no attempt to seal off debate. One problem with apologetics is that it's applied philosophy and theology (or scholarship), so it's limited in depth. One can always trump the apologist by going beyond the scope of their argument. Same with the New Atheists. Sam Harris will never do better than what utilitarianism permits. For his arguments to get better he'd need to get more technical, and lose 95% of his readers and the TED talks.

I would recommend anything by Alister McGrath.

If I recommended one single book it would be Reason for the Hope Within. I studied under the guy who wrote the chapter on arguments for God.

Another good one would be Faith and Rationality.

5th Edition of James Sire's The Universe Next Door

Try this ⬇️

What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Qur'an https://www.amazon.com/dp/0764209760/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_JUsODb5HK0DR2

https://www.amazon.com/Every-Christian-Needs-About-Quran/dp/0764209760

Actually

http://www.amazon.com/The-Dawkins-Delusion-Atheist-Fundamentalism/dp/0830837213

and

http://www.amazon.com/Answering-New-Atheism-Dismantling-Dawkins/dp/1931018480

Someone owns Ray Comfort's book, that's how.

The doctrine of the love of God is often misunderstood as we cannot in our finite minds believe that God (who we are told “Loved the world”) would condemn seeming innocence people to eternity in hell. The error is in believing that ANYONE is deserving of anything other than hell.

I recommend the book “The difficult doctrine of the love of God” by D.A. Carson.

https://www.amazon.com/Difficult-Doctrine-Love-God/dp/1581341261

Yes I have read Bells book - by the way.

For too long people have interpreted the Bible without taking into account its various genres. When that is done all kinds of problems ensue. There is narrative, narrative mixed with fable, wisdom, prophecy, poetry, personifications, embellished war narratives, etc. Some sections were thematic and meant to impart a theological teaching and were never intended to be taken literally. I would suggest a few sources to help.

https://www.reasonablefaith.org

https://www.amazon.com/Guard-Students-Thinkers-Guide-Christian-ebook/dp/B00U894IGA/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1522428918&sr=8-3&dpID=410%252B8eMXoiL&preST=_SY445_QL70_&dpSrc=detail

https://www.amazon.com/Case-Resurrection-Jesus-Gary-Habermas-ebook/dp/B001QOGJY0/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1522429211&sr=8-4-fkmr0

https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Case-Christianity-Homicide-Detective-Investigates-ebook/dp/B00A71Y7I8/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1522428968&sr=8-1

Take a look inside. It's just as idiotic as you thought it would be. Including the claim that this line from the bible "Can you send lightning, that they may go and say to you, Here we are?" is talking about radio.